00:00Deed, so great to have you with us today.
00:07Great to be here.
00:08How you doing, man?
00:09Yeah, it's a great time to be alive, isn't it?
00:11Especially in what you're, you know, dealing with in the crypto markets.
00:13Can you give us an overview of Wonderfi?
00:16Absolutely.
00:17Wonderfi is publicly traded on the Toronto Stock Exchange under the symbol WNDR and in
00:21the US under WONDF.
00:25Wonderfi is a global leader in centralized and decentralized financial services and products.
00:31Our flagship brands are Bitbuy and Coinsquare, which are two of Canada's largest regulated
00:36crypto trading platforms, servicing over 1.7 million Canadians with over 1.3 billion in
00:42assets under custody.
00:43And we recently expanded our efforts into the Australia and Asia Pacific region through
00:47the launch of Bitbuy APEC.
00:50Those are a lot of solid numbers, my friend.
00:52Can you tell us about your treasury Bitcoin and Ethereum buying program?
00:56Absolutely.
00:57You know, we thought earlier this year, you know, based on the run up in the Q1 with Bitcoin
01:03breaking all time highs, you know, in this consolidation phase that we saw through Q2,
01:07it was a really good opportunity for Wonderfi to put Bitcoin and Ethereum on the balance
01:12sheet.
01:13You know, this is proven in the short term to be something that has been, you know, the
01:17right decision.
01:19But ultimately, we believe in the industry we service.
01:22We believe in the long term value of Bitcoin and Ethereum, and we want to support the industry
01:26and be a signal for the broader participants that these assets are here to stay.
01:31And there is a lot of long term value in holding on to these assets.
01:34Oh, no, I love that message, Dean.
01:36And I know you just launched new versions of your Bitbuy and Coinsquare apps.
01:40What's new in version 2.0?
01:41Yeah, there's a lot to like, you know, we've really focused on the user experience.
01:45You know, Wonderfi has consolidated five crypto trading platforms over the last two and a
01:50half years.
01:51And through that process, we have spent a lot of time on integrating the users and getting
01:56to a point where we are today, where we operate two brands on one tech stack.
02:01Following that process, we thought it was really important to focus on the actual platform
02:06itself, focus on enhanced trading experiences, additional products and services, a refresh
02:12on the user experience and feel of the platform.
02:15And that, you know, is a step in the direction we're taking more broadly, where we're really
02:20focusing on organic growth and improving the product in a way that will really resonate
02:24with our users.
02:26And another example of that would be today's announcement, where we announced that we have
02:29partnered with Fundstrat, Tom Lee, who I'm sure you're familiar with, and where we're
02:33going to be providing our users in Canada exclusive access to the research and insights
02:39that FSI provides.
02:41Just another example of ways in which we're trying to educate our users, give them information
02:46that will allow them to make more informed decisions and ultimately provide a really
02:50wholesome experience for them to access digital assets.
02:52Dean, I love that.
02:53And as you mentioned, organic growth is such an important thing as well.
02:56And Dean, let's take a look at the macro picture.
02:59What do rate lowerings do for Bitcoin and crypto as a whole?
03:03Yeah, absolutely.
03:04You know, you think back to the last bull market we had, you know, rates were zero.
03:09There was effective money printing going on.
03:12And while we don't have that money printing just yet, we do have rates coming down.
03:16We think that opens up a lot of opportunity for retail participants to feel more comfortable
03:21investing in general, but certainly investing in riskier assets of which today digital assets
03:26certainly fall within.
03:27And so when we think about six months, nine months, 12 months out from where we are today,
03:31assuming that rates will continue to be lowered, we just expect more investable capital to
03:37start flowing back into the digital asset sector.
03:40People will feel more encouraged and more optimistic about the future, and that will
03:44lead them to make more investment decisions.
03:46Ultimately, when you look at where Bitcoin and the digital asset market sits today, there
03:51is a lot to like about the next six to 12 months.
03:54Certainly as rates come down, we think that will be one of the factors that encourages
03:59participants to reenter the market.
04:01Sure.
04:02And by the way, speaking about the future, we got an election coming up in one week from
04:05today.
04:06How do you see it affecting Bitcoin in the short and long terms?
04:10Absolutely.
04:11Yeah, it's a great question.
04:12And it's something that's been talked about a lot recently.
04:14You know, I don't think it's a coincidence that we've seen Trump's odds to win the election.
04:18I believe that around 65, 66% now increase in the run up that Bitcoin's had over the
04:24last few weeks.
04:25When you think back to the election over the last six to 12 months, Trump has been very
04:29vocal about the digital asset industry, trying to promote it from within the United States.
04:35And clearly participants are taking note.
04:37We ultimately think that whoever wins the election, the amount of money that's gone
04:41into lobbying on behalf of this industry, it will ultimately be a net positive moving
04:46forward.
04:47But we can't help but see this clear signs that a Donald Trump win next week would certainly
04:52be a short term catalyst for the digital asset industry.
04:56Many people are expecting if he is successful, that Bitcoin will go right through all time
05:00highs.
05:01And we might hit that sometime today or later this week, assuming we haven't.
05:06People really expect that to be the next meaningful catalyst for the next leg up.
05:09Yeah, no, it's perfect.
05:10You said no matter who wins, it seems like it's definitely a positive for the crypto
05:14market in general with all the attention.
05:16And we did see an influx of capital after the launch of Bitcoin ETFs.
05:20Will this continue?
05:21Do you believe it will accelerate as well?
05:22Yeah, absolutely.
05:23You know, you saw a really strong response in the first quarter of this year to the launch
05:28of these products.
05:30By any measure, these are some of the most successful ETFs that have launched ever.
05:34Gold ETFs, when they launched in 2004, took them about five years to reach $20 billion
05:39of AUM.
05:40You know, Bitcoin ETFs have done that in the first nine months of this year.
05:44When you think about the trajectory from a reputational perspective, you have people
05:49like Blackstone, Fidelity, Franklin Templeton, really supporting this industry in a meaningful
05:53way that's never existed before.
05:55When you think about the exposure and the ease of access that ETFs create for a much
06:01broader audience than existed in crypto previously, we can't help but think about the doors being
06:07blown wide open here.
06:10And when you think about the success that these ETF issuers have had with these products,
06:14you're going to start seeing follow on products and you're going to start seeing them continue
06:17to invest in these products through additional sales channels or sales efforts to continue
06:22piling on the success.
06:24So we think that the narrative in the first half of the year certainly played out as Bitcoin
06:28ran to all time highs.
06:30The narrative subdued a little bit during the last part of the year, but you're starting
06:34to see the narrative pick back up as we start to hit these benchmark numbers like $20 billion
06:38in net asset inflows.
06:41You're going to start to see that continue.
06:43And these products are just the starting point for these broader ETF issuers, like I said.
06:48And so we certainly expect this to play out in the background and continue to be part
06:51of the broader narrative moving forward.
06:53Yeah, definitely a very exciting time in crypto.
06:55And listen, you mentioned that partnership with Fundstrat.
06:58Your stock is up 15% today based on that news and the Bitcoin push, of course, to all time
07:03highs.
07:04What is your outlook on Wonderfi and crypto in general for quarter Q4 and 24 and in 25?
07:10Yeah, absolutely.
07:11So Wonderfi has spent the better part of the last two years consolidating the regulated
07:16market for cryptocurrency trading platforms in Canada.
07:19Through that process, we've acquired five platforms and the user base from Bitstamp,
07:23which was a global participant that left the Canadian market.
07:27Following the consolidation effort that we undertook to bring these platforms onto one
07:31tech stack operating under two brands, we are now focused on international expansion
07:36using Australia as our first entry point to new markets and also with Wonderfi Labs, which
07:42is focused on building out innovative products that exist on chain.
07:46Over the last part of the year, we have seen a really big trend where retail participants
07:50are becoming more and more comfortable interacting on chain.
07:54Coinbase through their wallet and base would be a really good example of that.
07:58We believe that Wonderfi is very well positioned to build out these products and services with
08:03an overall focus on trust and transparency to bring the next cohort of retail participants
08:09globally on chain.
08:11And so when you think about 2025, we expect Wonderfi to really build out its presence
08:15internationally, starting with Australia, but we're currently evaluating other jurisdictions
08:20to move into as well and developing a real presence on chain through Wonderfi Labs.
08:26And so when you think back, think about Wonderfi in 2025 and beyond, you're going to talk about
08:31a global cryptocurrency platform that offers services across decentralized and decentralized
08:38ecosystems, all focused around providing trusted, transparent and great products for the global
08:44audience that is continuing to show interest in the digital asset industry.
08:47I love it.
08:48What a time to be alive.
08:49Dean Skirka, the CEO and president of Wonderfi.
08:53Thank you so much for joining me on All Access.
08:54It was a fascinating conversation.
08:56Absolutely happy to be here and come back anytime.
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