Paola Ramos publica nuevo libro llamado “Desertores”

People en Español

Transcript

00:00Well, let's welcome Paola Ramos for the first time, I want to think in People in Spanish,

00:10in Book Corner of People in Spanish, and we're going to talk about this new book called

00:14Desertores, which is also in English and I think it's your second book, right?

00:19Welcome.

00:20That's right.

00:21Yes, thank you very much.

00:22Thank you for having me.

00:23Yes, that's good.

00:24Hey, congratulations.

00:25The book is great.

00:26I was reading it this weekend.

00:27It's going very fast because it's a super interesting topic.

00:31But I want you to explain it, because obviously you're the expert.

00:34Who are the desertores?

00:36Well, I think desertores is a term, I think it's a bit provocative, right?

00:40Because it's this idea that Latinos, right?

00:43We had a presumed loyalty or solidarity with the Democrats, right?

00:48I mean, a little bit with the progressive movement.

00:50I think desertores somehow tries to have another perspective, right?

00:56And this is just asking ourselves who we really are politically loyal to Latinos.

01:01For many years, the idea was that it was the Democrats.

01:04But I think what we're seeing right now, right?

01:06The polls, for example, that are pointing out that even Donald Trump,

01:10a person and a candidate who is promising massive deportations in this country,

01:15that he himself is reaching between 35% and 40% with Latinos.

01:20So I think that kind of makes us rethink, right?

01:24Many of these assumptions that we had of Latinos.

01:28So desertores are many people, right?

01:30They are not only the traditional Trumpist Latinos we think of,

01:35but it is this idea that little by little we are seeing that more Latinos feel comfortable

01:40with ideas like massive deportations, build the wall,

01:47topics like Christian nationalism, some topics more like homophobic, transphobic.

01:53So it's just questioning politics in that way.

01:59And I find it very interesting because I think at the end of the day,

02:02when you read the book, it's a little uncomfortable.

02:06It was a little uncomfortable for me to read it because I feel like

02:09what it asks you is who we are.

02:12Totally.

02:13Who are Latinos in this country?

02:15What do we become when we've been here almost all our lives

02:19or we were born here?

02:21We disconnect from what our parents believed, our grandparents, right?

02:25Yes, I think that's the question.

02:27And that's the key question, right?

02:29I think that for a long time we thought that what we had in common

02:33was that original story, right?

02:36The story of the immigrant.

02:38And I think that for many years that served to create a very united movement.

02:43But now we are seeing that it is a community that has evolved

02:46in the sense that they have assimilated much more.

02:48We are much more American.

02:50Most Latinos now, the segment that is growing faster among Latinos

02:56is the third generation of Latinos.

02:58That means that we are a generation that most of us were born here.

03:02We are less than 50 years old.

03:04Most are speaking English.

03:06So what you are saying right now is a bit the heart of this conversation, right?

03:10Who are we?

03:12We are a community that feels more at home with this white American idea

03:18or we are a community that feels more at home with this idea of a different Latin community, right?

03:25I think that's a bit the conversation we're having.

03:29But I think it was also a bit uncomfortable for me to write it

03:33because I learned many things that I maybe didn't have the language or didn't know.

03:39I started to understand the weight of colonization in Latin America

03:43and how maybe that created a very complex vision of racism, of colorism.

03:51It also created a different perspective in terms of the moral values that we have.

03:59So I also had to educate myself a lot to understand myself.

04:04But to make this book, you interviewed characters that even had a criminal background.

04:12People that, I'm sure, when you were alone with them in the car, you didn't know what could happen.

04:21I know that many of these risks come with journalism.

04:27Tell us a bit about that process of how it was to find them, interview them.

04:32There's a guy that surprises me a lot. He patrols the border alone all the time.

04:36He turns off the radio. He's just sharing his thoughts.

04:40It gives you a chill to think about that situation where you're there trying to get the story.

04:45But also to think that there are many of those characters out there, right?

04:49Totally, yes.

04:52We're talking about people like Encinagüero, who is a Mexican-American person

04:59but who has a lot of anti-immigrant feelings.

05:02He spends his days uploading content in which he takes pictures and videos of other immigrants crossing the border.

05:11But the content always has a very clear message.

05:14And it's that the immigrants are invading the country.

05:18But I was also having a lot of conversations with some, for example, members of the Proud Boys,

05:24members of the Moms for Liberty group.

05:26I had conversations with several evangelical priests.

05:29But they have a very conservative perspective of Christian nationalism.

05:36So, yes, I think that when you get into these conversations,

05:41I also have my own stereotypes of what I'm going to find.

05:45I had my own ideas of how these stories were going to evolve.

05:49But then I think the curious thing is, and I think the beautiful thing about this book,

05:53is that if you put politics aside for a moment and give them an opportunity to listen,

06:00not for an hour or two, but for many hours,

06:03to simply listen to their messages and create trust.

06:07Because it's very difficult, as you know better than anyone,

06:09it's very difficult in this environment in which we live,

06:13particularly in the media, to have trust between us.

06:17People want to talk to me and to talk to any media.

06:21It has become dangerous, even physically.

06:24It has become dangerous, yes.

06:26But if you give people time and you're really curious about what is creating this right-wing movement,

06:32you understand that you have many things in common.

06:35Regardless of how they see me,

06:38I understand that many people can judge me for being a gay, Latin person,

06:44with some of these questions.

06:46But if you put these things aside, you understand that many of these characters

06:51are people who at some point are simply trying to do what we are all trying to do,

06:57and that is to find a place where we find ourselves at home,

07:00where we think that we are really part of this country.

07:04For some people, this movement leads them to the Proud Boys,

07:08for some it leads them to the churches,

07:10for some it leads them to some version of extremism.

07:13But I think that's part of Latin history in the United States,

07:16this journey to assimilate us.

07:19It's very beautiful, but it's also hard for many people.

07:23On Sunday, you presented your book in Miami,

07:26in a very important bookstore in Miami,

07:29and you had an honored guest, who was the presenter,

07:32your father, Jorge Ramos.

07:34Tell us how that day went, how you felt.

07:37He is also an author, and I want to put this aside,

07:40because I was also thinking,

07:42it's not just his father, he has more than a dozen books,

07:46as an author.

07:48Yes, I think it was the first time my father interviewed me,

07:53and it was very beautiful,

07:56because if you saw the audience,

07:59you start to see that intergenerational change.

08:04There were many people who came to see him,

08:07many people who have grown up watching Univision,

08:09watching him for decades,

08:11but the beautiful thing is that they brought their children,

08:14and their daughters, and their grandchildren,

08:16and then that audience started to evolve,

08:19and there were people who spoke more in Spanglish or English.

08:21So my father and I had a conversation in Spanglish,

08:26and then we both learned a lot from each other.

08:29He told me his version of the Latin community,

08:33and then I see that community changing in a very different way.

08:37So it was a very beautiful moment,

08:39and then, like him,

08:41there are always very cheesy moments,

08:44because you can see that he is full of pride,

08:46and I have to say, it has been a privilege for me

08:49to have seen him grow in his career,

08:54and now I can have some of those lessons,

08:57and do what I like to do.

09:00Hey Paula, thank you so much for being here,

09:03really, congratulations on the book,

09:05it's fantastic, you're going to read it very quickly,

09:07and well, see you soon.

09:10Thank you, I really appreciate it.

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