00:00Welcome to À Propos.
00:04It's the highest profile Me Too case to hit France.
00:07A court here in Paris has postponed the trial of French actor Gérard Depardieu
00:11because of concerns about his health,
00:14shifting the start of the proceedings to next March.
00:17The actor, who's denied any wrongdoing,
00:19is accused of sexually assaulting two women on a film set.
00:23The court also ordered an expert to assess the 75-year-old's health
00:28after his lawyer said he had heart trouble and diabetes-related issues.
00:33Eliza Herbert has the latest.
00:36Some 100 people gathered outside the Palais de Justice in Paris on Monday
00:41in solidarity with two plaintiffs
00:43who have accused French actor Gérard Depardieu of sexual assault.
00:47Protesters say that being a celebrity should not warrant impunity.
00:52They say that they're sacred and must be protected at all costs
00:55in the name of art, and sometimes even that they're the pride of France.
00:59We're here today to say no, Gérard Depardieu doesn't make us proud.
01:03But they did not get the chance to tell the actor face to face.
01:06That morning, his lawyer broke the news that he was asking for the trial to be postponed.
01:11Unfortunately, his doctors have forbidden him from attending the hearing.
01:17For this reason, he's going to request a postponement to a later date
01:21so that he can be present.
01:23Because Gérard Depardieu intends to be there.
01:25He wants to express himself.
01:29The actor is accused of sexually assaulting two women
01:32on the set of Les Volets Verts in August 2021.
01:36According to one of the plaintiffs, he grabbed her, trapped her between his legs
01:40and touched her body up to her breasts.
01:43But this trial represents just a fraction of the allegations against the actor.
01:48In all, six women have now lodged complaints against him for rape or sexual assault
01:53and three legal proceedings are in progress.
01:56Actress Charlotte Arnault alleges that Depardieu raped her twice at his Paris home in 2018.
02:02She told her story in this investigation on France 2,
02:05prompting more than 50 personalities to come to the actor's defence
02:09in a column in a French newspaper.
02:12Still, Depardieu's reach did not prevent the public prosecutor's office
02:16from requesting a rape trial.
02:22For more, we're joined here in studio by Alsa Labouret,
02:25spokesperson for Osée le Féminisme, a feminist group here in France.
02:30Thank you so much for being with us on the programme this evening.
02:34Proceedings today postponed until next year,
02:38but there were several dozen protesters at the courthouse in Paris today.
02:42Why was it so important for people to be there?
02:46You know, there's never a dull moment when you want to protest against, you know,
02:51the patriarchy and try to support women who are victims of sexual violence
02:57and try to protest against, you know, the very slow justice that is brought about.
03:02And I think in this case, we didn't even know that the trial was going to be pushed
03:07when we started to be there today, but it was again.
03:11I mean, it's things that take a really, really long time.
03:14It takes a long time for victims to speak up.
03:17It takes a long time for justice to be, you know, to be served.
03:20And again, the victims are going to have to wait a long time.
03:23People were there also to protest against a culture that we have that protects
03:27and supports and enables, you know, predators.
03:32And the example of Gilles Depardieu is a very telling one
03:35because he is a monument in French culture.
03:39Just, you know, I'm saying this objectively.
03:42He's a big figure in French cinema and he's been, you know, complimented again
03:50recently by the president of, you know, Macron, our country's leader.
03:55So the highest person who can probably protect him has spoken up in his favour.
04:01It's very difficult in this context for women and for feminists to be heard
04:05when we talk about sexual violence.
04:07And he has, of course, denied any wrongdoing.
04:10He's also accused of rape as part of a separate case.
04:13Just talk to us a little bit more about how significant this trial is,
04:17the current trial, the one that's been suspended until next year.
04:20As you say, Gilles Depardieu, he's known right across the world
04:24and he is a national icon more or less here in France.
04:27Well, you said it. That's why it's so emblematic.
04:29I think when we talk about sexual violence, it's something that can happen
04:32in every level of society.
04:35Everywhere where there's men and women, there will be violence
04:38because it's male violence.
04:39It's not contained in a specific job sector or a specific social strata.
04:48It's everywhere, including in show business and cinema.
04:52And it's something that the Me Too movement has particularly shown.
04:55It's not just there, but it is a big example of how men are protected
04:59by the power that they have, the symbolic power, but also real power.
05:03And in his case, he's one of probably the biggest names
05:07when it comes to French cinema.
05:09And to see him on the bench being accused, being brought to trial,
05:13is very significant.
05:14And that's why I think people are very, very looking forward
05:17to this trial taking place.
05:21And it's disappointing and frustrating.
05:23And I imagine particularly for the victims to see
05:26that we're going to have to wait a few more months.
05:29And how disappointing is it for them, for the alleged victims,
05:32that this case has been postponed until at least March?
05:35Well, I don't have their voice particularly.
05:37But I can only imagine.
05:39It's so harrowing, so slow, so difficult,
05:42to just, you know, the process from everything happening
05:45to realising that something that happened to you is wrong,
05:47it's not your fault.
05:48Everything that society is teaching us about sexual violence,
05:50it's very difficult to go beyond that and say,
05:52no, I'm a victim, I deserve justice, I deserve to be protected,
05:56I deserve to be heard.
05:57To then, you know, there's the whole process of pressing charges.
06:01If the police hears you, there's a whole inquiry.
06:03That's very harrowing because, you know,
06:05you have to answer questions and say the same stories
06:07again and again and again.
06:08It's very taxing.
06:09And then, you know, you have the trial.
06:11It all is very, first of all, very long, complicated and painful.
06:15But in this case, it's also very public.
06:17And, you know, you have the fact that the man that you are,
06:22you know, going, that you have, you know, accused of being,
06:27for legal reasons, accused of being an assaulter, an aggressor,
06:32is very famous and is supported by so many people.
06:36And you have this weight on your shoulders.
06:38It's probably very harrowing.
06:40And I can only feel for these victims.
06:42And I can only recognise the courage that they had in,
06:45you know, coming forward.
06:46And as you say, many people in the industry here in France
06:49had come out in support of the actor.
06:51The French president, as you say, had spoken up in his support as well.
06:55Why does it seem that the Me Too movement,
06:57it has been perceived differently here in France
07:00than it has been elsewhere, particularly in the United States, for example?
07:04Well, I don't really know exactly what would be different
07:07in France and the US, but I can tell you that we have
07:10a sort of reverence for our culture, I think, here in France
07:13that is quite specific.
07:15And it's, you know, our cinema, our actors and everyone,
07:18everything, and it's quite...
07:21I think everybody's quite protective of that.
07:23And we consider that, you know, you can sacrifice some people along the way.
07:28And it's, you know, the way nobody says exactly in that way,
07:31but it's the message that is sent every time that, you know,
07:34somebody who is accused of doing things that are so horrible,
07:37every time that they're protected, every time that they're supported,
07:40because they did something supposedly amazing for the culture.
07:43First of all, it doesn't mean that they can't, you know,
07:45have done horrible things, you know, in private, or, you know,
07:48also maybe in spite of all because of that, like I said,
07:51it's also intertwined with this culture of, you know, celebrity and power.
07:55But it's also, you know, the culture has nothing to do with violence.
07:58And there's no... It's not worth it.
08:01The price that these victims have to pay,
08:03and the price that we as a society pay for, you know, some movies,
08:07like I like cinema, but it's not worth it.
08:10We need to protect, like, we're talking about something
08:12that is on a massively different scale, you know, good movies
08:16versus, you know, some lives that were completely transformed
08:19and possibly forever.
08:21You know, the victims, they have probably suffered terribly
08:24and continue to do so.
08:26There's just no excuse to continue protecting the culture.
08:29Yes, he has, of course, denied wrongdoing in this particular case,
08:33but also as this trial comes, it was due to start,
08:37as we're in the midst of another very high-profile trial down in Avignon,
08:41and Dominique Pellicot and the 50 co-accused
08:44accused of raping and drugging his former wife.
08:48So is this perhaps a moment where France is coming to some kind
08:52of reckoning with how it deals with these kind of allegations
08:56and how it deals with sexual abuse?
08:58I do think that the society is changing.
09:00The conversation is changing.
09:02You see a lot of people realising, you know,
09:05what feminists have been trying to say for a long time,
09:08but the reality that sexist and sexual violence
09:11is not something that happens privately,
09:13it's not something that is just accidents or unique occurrences,
09:17but it's something that is pervasive and systemic
09:20and is due to masculinity and systems of power and misogyny.
09:25It's the same.
09:27You can find the same things socially, politically,
09:29that are happening in the DiPaggio case
09:32and in the case of Dominique Pellicot.
09:36I think a lot of people are realising what's happening,
09:39and something that we've seen is that in the past few years
09:42there's a lot more charges that are pressed.
09:45Victims go to the police a lot more often.
09:48So there's this change in not only victims speaking out,
09:52because victims have been speaking out,
09:54they're just not being heard, but victims are starting to realise
09:57that they should be heard, but it's not being followed
10:00by the justice system and the police.
10:02Right now we have a new government that has downgraded
10:05the Ministry for Equality to the Secretariat d'Etat,
10:08so it's a smaller budget, it's just less important.
10:11We don't see any priority in the 2025 budget
10:15on the fight against violence against women.
10:19I think society is changing slowly,
10:21the conversations are changing, we are talking about it more,
10:24but the justice system and the political class,
10:27they're not really taking this as seriously as they should.
10:30What do you think they should be doing?
10:32This problem isn't unique to France,
10:34for example, 114,000 reports of sexual violence here last year,
10:40including more than 25,000 reported rapes,
10:43but very many go unreported.
10:45Those who do, very few come to trial,
10:48and of those who do, very few people are convicted.
10:51So what exactly needs to change?
10:53We need to see it as a global problem,
10:55not just as isolated incidents,
10:57isolated aggressors, isolated crimes.
10:59It is a phenomenon, it is a problem of national security,
11:03domestic security,
11:05but women are the most unsafe at home
11:09in their relationships with men.
11:11Unfortunately, when you compare the budget for equality
11:14and the fight against sexual violence
11:16to the budget for defence, for example,
11:18we're not finding where the danger actually is.
11:23For half of the population, 52% of the French population is female.
11:29So there needs to be global change.
11:32If every rape case went to trial,
11:34the justice system would be so different
11:36because the budget couldn't handle it.
11:38We need to complete, we need to rethink things
11:41regarding this as a global and national phenomenon.
11:47Elsa, we'll have to leave it there for now,
11:49but thank you so much for coming in.
11:51We do appreciate your time on the programme.
11:53That is Elsa Labourez, spokesperson for Dosez le Féminisme.
11:57And that is it from us for today.
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