00:00Welcome to Apropos.
00:04In a race with all still to play for,
00:06its endorsement could have been a factor
00:08in a handful of key battleground states.
00:11The executive board of one of America's largest trade unions
00:14has decided not to provide its backing to either candidate.
00:18That's despite a poll of members that saw Donald Trump
00:21receive 58% of the votes and Kamala Harris 31.
00:25For the latest, let's cross live
00:27to our Washington correspondent Fraser Jackson.
00:30Fraser, election observers had been eagerly awaiting
00:34white smoke following this meeting,
00:36and for the last few months really.
00:38Is this a major upset for the Democrats,
00:41the fact that neither Trump nor Kamala Harris
00:44has received the backing of this union?
00:48Both sides have been trying to get the Teamsters on board.
00:52They have roughly 1.3 million members
00:55and most of those members are in key swing states
00:59like Michigan, Nevada and Pennsylvania.
01:02So really it could be quite a pivotal endorsement
01:06which has now not gone either party's way really.
01:09The internal polling from the Teamsters themselves
01:13showed that around 60%, just shy of 60% of their workers
01:17favoured Trump and just under a third rather
01:21were favouring Harris.
01:23We heard from the president of the Teamsters, Sean O'Brien,
01:27who said neither major candidate was able
01:29to make serious commitments to our union
01:32to ensure the interests of working people
01:34are always put before big business.
01:36He then continued,
01:37we sought commitments from both Trump and Harris
01:40not to interfere in critical union campaigns
01:42or core Teamsters industries
01:44and to honour our members' right to strike,
01:46but were unable to secure those pledges.
01:48Of course those strikes last year in 2023
01:52were something that secured a pay rise
01:54for many union members across the automotive industry,
01:57around 11% increase for some workers,
02:00but there have been also criticisms of the right to strike,
02:04especially from Donald Trump
02:06in an ex-interview with Elon Musk.
02:09He basically said that Elon Musk did the right thing
02:12in basically trying to dissuade people
02:14from being able to strike
02:16and that was something that Sean O'Brien,
02:18the president of the Teamsters,
02:20pushed back against on by Trump.
02:22But Sean O'Brien also did speak at the RNC this year
02:26and made a relatively apolitical speech.
02:28He did apparently also try to speak at the DNC
02:31but didn't actually get given a speaker slot,
02:33but there were some Teamsters who were there.
02:35So an important endorsement,
02:39which is not going either way,
02:41both campaigns trying to spin it to their advantage.
02:43We're hearing from Donald Trump who said
02:45the vast majority of rank and file working men and women
02:48in this important organisation
02:50want President Donald Trump back in the White House.
02:52That was from his campaign.
02:54And the Harris campaign saying when she is elected president
02:56she will look out for the Teamsters, rank and file,
02:59no matter what, because they always have been
03:01and always will be the people she fights for.
03:03So regardless of the endorsement officially not going either way,
03:06both campaigns trying to take advantage of it.
03:08Fraser, for now, thank you so much.
03:10That is Fraser Jackson, our Washington correspondent.
03:13Well, for more, let's bring in Paul Clark.
03:15He's Professor of Labour and Employment Relations
03:18at Pennsylvania State University in the US.
03:21Thank you so much for being with us on the programme this evening, Paul.
03:24So has this lack of an endorsement come as a surprise?
03:28What were you expecting?
03:30Well, I don't think this is a big surprise.
03:33As your report suggested,
03:36a large percentage of the Teamsters are Trump supporters.
03:40The union leaders of the Teamsters are elected officials
03:44and they have to be responsive to their members.
03:47And in this case, I don't think the president of the Teamsters
03:52felt comfortable issuing an endorsement for either candidate,
03:58given the split in his membership.
04:00The Teamsters, they'd endorsed Joe Biden back in 2020,
04:04Hillary Clinton in 2016, Obama in 2008 and 2012.
04:09So how much of a blow will this be seen as being for Kamala Harris?
04:13She's received backing from other major trade unions in the US.
04:18Well, I think she would have very much liked
04:20to have had the endorsement of the Teamsters.
04:22But she will have the endorsement
04:25of virtually all other major unions in the United States.
04:30The only unions that won't, that have supported Donald Trump
04:35are the police unions and the border patrol unions.
04:39And the other unions, the major industrial unions,
04:44service unions, healthcare unions,
04:46they have all or will endorse Harris
04:51and they'll put their union's assets and resources behind her.
04:55So the support she's going to get from those unions
04:59is going to be very helpful.
05:01And how much sway do unions actually have though in the US
05:04in terms of when it comes to influencing
05:07how voters actually decide to cast their ballot on polling day?
05:11Well, really what unions focus on is their own membership.
05:16And union membership in the US is relatively small
05:20compared to other countries.
05:22But the margins for the key battleground states,
05:27Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin, are going to be very narrow.
05:32And there are significant numbers of union members in those states.
05:36So unions will be trying to get their members
05:39in those key swing states to vote for Harris.
05:42They'll get out the vote efforts.
05:45They'll have phone banks.
05:48They'll have an energised membership.
05:51And that could make the difference when the margin is going to be so small.
05:55And how much influence then do the unions have when it comes to policy?
06:00Do they have any kind of influence there?
06:02Both Trump and Biden as well,
06:04they've been joining Teamsters Roundtable
06:07since they began holding them back in December.
06:10Well, Joe Biden ran on the position
06:13that he wanted to be the most pro-union president in American history.
06:18And he has done a great number of things
06:21that have benefited the labour movement.
06:24There's no question that the only pro-union candidate in the election
06:29is Kamala Harris.
06:33And unions have received a big boost from the Biden administration.
06:39And I think they'll receive, and they think they'll receive,
06:42a big boost from Kamala Harris.
06:45So it does make a difference.
06:47And in terms of what Teamsters president Sean O'Brien has been saying,
06:52he had sought speaking slots
06:54at both the Democrat and Republican conventions.
06:57What did you make of the fact
06:59that he was given a primetime slot by the Republicans
07:02but not by the Democrats?
07:05Well, I think O'Brien, who spoke at the Republican convention,
07:09he was the first national union president to ever do that.
07:14I think he was trying to send a signal to his membership,
07:18that percentage that support Donald Trump,
07:21that he heard them.
07:23The Democrats, probably in part
07:27because he did speak at the Republican convention,
07:29didn't invite him to speak.
07:32But I think his reasons for doing so
07:35are internal political reasons.
07:38He has to get re-elected
07:40and he didn't want to offend this large percentage of his membership
07:44that are strong Trump supporters.
07:47Because it may come as a surprise to some viewers
07:49because Kamala Harris, she's been supportive on the campaign trail
07:53of one of this union's top policy priorities,
07:56that is the Protecting the Right to Organise Act,
07:59which strengthens workers' ability to form a union
08:02and to do things like bargain with employers.
08:05So is this really something that's going to be seen as a boost for Trump,
08:09despite the fact that he hasn't been as pro-union
08:12as the Democrats have been?
08:15No, I don't think this will make much difference
08:19in terms of Trump support.
08:22He has his supporters in the unions.
08:25In the Teamsters, they have more Trump supporters than most unions.
08:31I don't think this is going to change anybody's vote,
08:34one way or the other.
08:36But you think it might have been crucial or important
08:39in some of the key battleground states?
08:42Well, I do think on the margin,
08:45having the Teamsters endorsement would help.
08:48Unions have been gearing up for this election for a long time,
08:52and they are ready to go.
08:55They're going to bring a lot of energy, a lot of enthusiasm.
09:00They're going to get out there in the communities
09:03to try to get their members who are undecided,
09:07the undecided portion of their members, to vote for Harris.
09:11And since the election is going to be so tight,
09:14that could make a difference.
09:16And what have some of the other unions been saying?
09:18Why have they said that they have been deciding
09:20to put their support behind Kamala Harris then?
09:24Well, again, it's because of the performance
09:26of the Biden administration.
09:29In our labour relations system,
09:31there's a government agency that interprets labour law.
09:36It swings back and forth.
09:38When Republicans are in office,
09:41it tends to rule in favour of employers.
09:44When the labour movement,
09:46when a labour-friendly administration,
09:48a democratic administration is in office,
09:50it tends to rule in favour of workers and unions.
09:54The Biden National Labour Relations Board
09:57has been very, very supportive of unions
10:01and has interpreted the law in a way
10:03that has really given them a boost.
10:05So that's probably the main thing that they're looking at
10:08that they hope will continue
10:10and they believe will continue
10:12under a Harris administration.
10:14And does the fact that there was, you know,
10:16no decision made to back either candidate,
10:18does that suggest that this union in particular
10:21is divided among itself
10:23when it comes to what the board may be feeling on one hand
10:25and what the rank and file members are saying on the other?
10:29Yeah, it really is.
10:31There is a split among American union members.
10:34Trump has a greater percentage of union member support
10:41than most Republican presidents in the recent past.
10:45But in his first administration,
10:48he did virtually nothing to support unions as organisations.
10:53The Biden administration has been a great deal,
10:56has done a great deal.
10:58The union leaders know this,
11:00but many of the members don't.
11:02They're voting on social issues,
11:04on immigration, on guns,
11:07on transgender rights.
11:10It's the union leaders that are really knowledgeable
11:14and focused on what the Trump administration
11:17versus the Biden administration has done to support them.
11:22OK, Paul, we'll have to leave it there for now.
11:24Thank you so much for your time on the programme, though.
11:26That is Professor Paul Clarke.
11:28He's Professor of Labour and Employment Relations
11:30at Pennsylvania State University.
11:32Thank you so much.
11:33You're welcome.
11:34Do stay with us.
11:35Do stay with us.
Comments