00:00Personally and individually, if I have to talk about Prime Minister Modi's priorities
00:05for the farmers' welfare, what message does it convey?
00:09It conveys a message that he cares, that he's very serious about sabka saath, sabka bikas.
00:17Internal security is all about getting in there early, before the congregation even
00:22congregates.
00:23Ten people are easier to control than a hundred, a hundred are easier to control than a thousand,
00:28a thousand are easier to control than a hundred thousand.
00:30Protests against the farm laws, remember it was just one state protesting, one state plus
00:35a few allied border areas protesting in U.P. and India.
00:39Hello and welcome to this special broadcast on One India.
00:42The Union Cabinet, chaired by Prime Minister Narendra Modi, has approved seven schemes
00:47to improve farmers' lives and increase their income, at a total outlay of roughly Rs. 14,000
00:54crore.
00:55Now this speaks volumes for a government which was criticized for having an quote-unquote
01:02anti-farmer stand.
01:03We saw what happened a couple of years ago with the farmers' protests and till now, farmers
01:09in some pockets, certain pockets of the country are still protesting.
01:13What is it that Prime Minister wishes to do with this?
01:16What does it reflect about the party in power?
01:20To discuss that further, Abhijit Iyer Mitra, Senior Fellow, Institute of Peace and Conflict
01:25Studies, also known as IPCS, joins us on the broadcast.
01:29Abhijit, thank you so much for joining here on One India.
01:32Thank you so much, Pankaj.
01:33Always a pleasure being on with you.
01:36Same here, likewise.
01:38Abhijit, in your opinion, how do the newly approved schemes by the Modi government reflect
01:44its genuine commitment to improving farmers' lives and incomes, especially in the wake
01:50of the protests against the farm laws?
01:54So you know, when we talk about the protests against the farm laws, remember it was just
01:58one state protesting.
01:59One state plus a few allied border areas protesting in UP and Karnataka.
02:06Did you see any of the other farmers protest anywhere in the country at all?
02:10That wasn't happening, right?
02:12At most, there were some small-scale staged protests by political parties, but the serious
02:19protests were all just one state.
02:21Why is that?
02:22These schemes are great, like, you know, every government announces them, so there's nothing
02:29out of the blue out here.
02:31But the problem is, farming is a private enterprise.
02:35Why is the government subsidizing a private enterprise?
02:38It really shows you how bad Indian farming is, how low productivity it is, how completely
02:44out of tune with the market it is, that, and you know, how poverty stricken it is, because
02:50these are people who are stuck in a rut, where 90% of them outside of a certain area do not
02:58want to be stuck in the rut, they're held hostage by a vocal 10% minority, who will
03:04continue to hold them in that position.
03:08And why is that 10% minority, 10% is a bit too much, it's more like maybe 0.1%, controlling
03:16that 10%.
03:17Because Punjab, we should remember, when the rest of the country went through its phases
03:23of liberalization in 1991 onwards, the rest of the country saw a very significant industrialization.
03:31When it's still not an industrial country, but we saw a lot of growth of business, the
03:34growth of the middle class, the growth of industrialism.
03:37Punjab, on the other hand, remains in that, you know, very feudal, unmodernized, I won't
03:46call it a sweet spot, I'll call it a sort of 1970s, 80s time capsule.
03:54You have 20% of the population, the Jat-Sikhs, who control 95% of the land.
04:01Most of the labor out there is not Jat-Sikh, they own no land.
04:05You know, there are several kinds of debt out there, there's a chakradhari loan, which
04:08is, you know, these guys aren't even numerically literate, so they don't know what part of
04:13the loan has been fulfilled, it keeps on rising, and things like that.
04:17Now, you know, it's very much like a conflict economy.
04:20In Kashmir, for example, you had a conflict economy, where almost 55% of the population
04:24was actually dependent on the security situation, not on terrorists, but you know, the army
04:29deployment on the CRPF, on the PSF, providing transport to them, providing food to them,
04:35catering to them, etc.
04:39And that was a complete conflict economy.
04:41This is a different, it's not a conflict economy, it's a medieval, semi-medieval economy, where
04:50there are so many vested interests riding on it, if you bring the forces of market forces
04:54and market modernization, what happens to that class?
04:57So I think the government covered to most regressive, obscurantist forces around.
05:05But there was a rape at that, in the farm protests done by the farm, there were several,
05:12you know, hacking of limbs and killings and whatnot, for bayadabi and whatnot nonsense.
05:17Yes, yes, yes.
05:19I think, and you know, in the larger scheme of things, 14,000 crores isn't that much.
05:24But congratulations, I'm sure the government, I mean, I haven't been able to win a single
05:29Lok Sabha seat.
05:30So I won't comment about the political wisdom of it.
05:34And Modi managed to win 240.
05:36So he certainly knows what he's doing.
05:39I'm just very unenthusiastic about it.
05:41Because for me, this is throwing good money after bad.
05:44Right.
05:45Got your point.
05:47So coming back to, again, the issue of the farmers here, that the government's intentions,
05:54the policy intentions, versus farmers perception, how can Modi government now bridge this gap?
06:02If at all, because farmers policies, pro farmers policies, that's what we have been hearing
06:07also about.
06:09How best do you think it can be achieved as of now?
06:12See, I think sometimes, you know, it's like a gangrenous arm, once the gangrene sets in,
06:18you have to amputate it.
06:19I think instead of penalizing the rest of the country for Punjab farmers, you just need
06:25to enforce the law again, and deal with the protests as they come.
06:31I think the government has done a very good job in dealing with the so called second round
06:34of protests, which nobody's even heard about, they're like scattered somewhere.
06:38The issue wasn't the protest, anybody's free to protest.
06:42The issue is the violence and the disruption, the uprooting of telephone poles, the hacking
06:46of limbs, the killing of people, the assault on the police, the tearing down of the national
06:51flag from the Red Fort and things like that.
06:55Let them protest.
06:56I mean, how long are they going to protest?
06:59Keep them in the fields, let them protest.
07:02You know, I think I've said this many, many times for the last 10 years, since this government
07:07came to power, internal security is all about getting in there early before the congregation
07:13even congregates.
07:1410 people are easier to control than 100, 100 are easier to control than 1000, 1000
07:20are easier to control than 100,000.
07:22They don't do that, they allow everybody to gather, congregate, they don't block off.
07:28I mean, look how efficiently, I mean, Justin Trudeau is a horrible, horrible man.
07:32But look how efficiently the truckers protest, their bank accounts were seized, their assets
07:36were seized, they were thrown in jail.
07:37If it's democratic there, why isn't it democratic here?
07:40And if the truckers, if the truckers are white supremacist fascists, why aren't the farmer's
07:49landlord fascist Aryan supremacists?
07:54Why should a Ravidian like me pay taxes to my Aryan oppressors?
08:01I mean, if you want to fall for that, you know, Romila Thapar theory of an Aryan invasion.
08:07History is all about that.
08:10But one final question, Abhijit.
08:13I distinctly remember sitting in a newsroom and early morning, around eight or nine o'clock
08:18in the morning, Prime Minister Modi announced it on television that he would be withdrawing
08:23the three farm laws.
08:25Now it was his face pasted with these three farm laws.
08:29With an allocation of roughly 14,000 crore rupees, personally and individually, if I
08:35have to talk about Prime Minister Modi's priorities for the farmer's welfare, what message does
08:42it convey?
08:46It conveys a message that he cares, that he's very serious about sabka saath, sabka bikas.
08:54But you know, it reminds me a bit of Lenin, you know, you may not be interested in war,
08:59but war is interested in you.
09:01So you know, you may be interested in sabka saath, sabka bikas, but sabka saath, sabka
09:06bikas may not be interested in you.
09:09It's a bit like that, right?
09:10He's reaching out to an audience that essentially turned a deaf ear and a blind eye to him.
09:17Right.
09:18Okay.
09:19Fair enough.
09:20Time will decide, you know, the losses and what could have been and what has failed to
09:28fructify.
09:29Abhijit, thank you so much for taking time out of One India.
09:32I really appreciate your time and input.
09:33Don't miss out.
09:35Log on to oneindia.com for more updates.
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