00:00What's your question, Jamie, tonight, if any?
00:14Yeah, I think I saw something.
00:28Yes, Jamie wants to be introduced to Kabir sahib.
00:36Says, Dear Acharya ji, in the West, we generally do not know Kabir.
00:40In fact, during my time in India, over the years, you are the only one who has mentioned him, that is, Kabir sahib, to me.
00:50If time permits, and no other question requires your attention, would you please share with me who Kabir is to you,
00:57what you admire about his life on earth, and what the core of his teaching is for us.
01:03Thank you, Acharya ji, deepest gratitude, Jamie.
01:06Jamie, yes, it's a pleasure to bring Kabir sahib to the West.
01:16Geographically, Australia is not really in the West.
01:20You are further to the East compared to India.
01:26Yeah, culturally, culturally.
01:32Kabir sahib, yeah, how do I talk about him?
01:37Bear honesty.
01:44Honesty, honesty, honesty.
01:46Honesty, thy name is Kabir.
01:54Worked his entire life, first of all.
01:58He was a weaver, small time weaver, from Varanasi, by profession.
02:06Worked all his life and there is a very strong reason why I am mentioning this in the first place
02:12as the most important thing about him.
02:17There has been an abundance of so-called religious teachers who do not bother to work.
02:31They just yak.
02:34All they have is gab, gab.
02:38Talk, talk and talk, not work.
02:42Kabir sahib worked. He was a weaver and he would weave everyday
02:46and he would live out of what he would earn from there.
02:50Not that he is the only one who would work, there are many others in history.
02:57But India is a place where the devotional sentiment always runs high
03:06and he was born in the Bhakti age. He belonged to the 14th century.
03:1214th and 15th century.
03:15And he lived in Varanasi, the center of all orthodoxy.
03:24He could have easily managed to have as much money and worldly goodies as he wanted.
03:36He never had anything.
03:40He never had anything from his people, his audiences, never.
03:50And he wasn't a beggar either.
03:54Neither was he a seated and decorated guru
04:06who would collect donations in lakhs and crores.
04:11People would come and offer millions to him.
04:16None of that. He never bothered to establish himself as some high-flying guru.
04:24Nor he was a beggar.
04:28He wouldn't say, I am a bhikshu. He wouldn't take the begging bowl and go about collecting alms.
04:33He worked like any ordinary person.
04:37And he would call himself Kabira or Kabir.
04:48He would never give himself a title or a sobriquet, nothing.
04:53He is Kabir, just Kabir.
04:56At least his addresses to himself never go beyond calling himself Kabir or Kabira or Kabira.
05:14That's honesty to the bone, to the core.
05:23Later on, his followers started calling him Sahib and Sadguru Kabir and all those things.
05:30He never did all that.
05:32It's so beautiful.
05:35In fact, I have this grudge against India.
05:37Just because Kabir Sahib was so humble about himself,
05:41so India has not really given him the place he deserves.
05:48We still address him as Kabir.
05:52Very, very ordinary and far lesser folks are addressed far more admiringly and respectfully.
06:07But the greatest of them all is called Kabir.
06:11And not that he did not know that the world lives on pretense and showmanship.
06:23He knew all those things.
06:25And yet he would say Kabir.
06:27Once he said, Kabir Kutta Ram Ka, Mutiya Mera Nao.
06:32It requires guts.
06:36And Jaime, your Acharya Ji is sold out to this beautiful display of guts.
06:49Only somebody with the utter heart of a lion can dare to proclaim in public Kabir Kutta Ram Ka.
07:00Kabir is the pet dog of Ram.
07:03And he didn't stop at that.
07:07He went ahead and christened himself as Mutiya.
07:16Kabir Kutta Ram Ka, Mutiya Mera Nao.
07:20Gale Ram Ki Jewari, Jit Kheeche Tit Jao.
07:25And when you come across something like this,
07:31you feel delighted to be alive at that moment.
07:36When I am with Kabir Sahib, I feel grateful for being alive.
07:43I am grateful I was born so that I could come upon Kabir.
07:48And he lived in Varanasi, which I said is the seat of Hindu orthodoxy.
08:01And yet he had the courage, the devotion and the conviction to say,
08:09Paathar Pooje Hari Mile Toh Main Poojoon Pahad.
08:14At another place he says, Deotan Se Kutta Bhala.
08:20If one could attain God by worshipping stones,
08:29I would rather worship the mountains.
08:34And he told to all the idol worshippers
08:40that even dogs are better than all these gods that you worship.
08:44At least dogs offer you some protection and security in the night.
08:48What do these gods offer you?
08:52Macho man, my hero.
08:58And I have been a fanboy.
09:07He is my superhero.
09:11And the sheer depth of his realisation.
09:15And the absolute simplicity of his expression.
09:19Maya Maya Sab Kahe Maya Lakhe Na Koi, Jo Manse Na Utre Maya Kahiye Soe.
09:24And there are volumes upon volumes trying to describe what Maya is.
09:31The entire world is perplexed about Maya.
09:37What is Maya? What is Maya?
09:40And Kabir Sahib dismisses all this talk about Maya like this.
09:45With one flash of his hand.
09:50Jo Manse Na Utre Maya Kahiye Soe.
09:53As if he is saying, son, the question is so simple.
09:59Why can't you see the answer?
10:02Like a maths teacher,
10:05consoling a beginner who is grappling with
10:10an actually easy but apparently insurmountable problem.
10:14Son, it is so easy.
10:20Just say y is equal to e raised to the power x.
10:23And you will get the answer.
10:28Just substitute e to the power x with y.
10:31And you will get the answer.
10:33Jo Manse Na Utre Maya Kahiye Soe.
10:35Done. Done. Dismissed.
10:38And Maya is cringing and squirming.
10:42Finally somebody got the better of me.
10:45Jo Manse Na Utre Maya Kahiye Soe.
10:47That which keeps occupying your mind.
10:51That which you cannot get rid of is Maya.
10:58Is there any other who ever put it across so simply and so beautifully and so totally?
11:05There is nobody.
11:08Kaal Kaal Sab Kahe.
11:11Kaal Na Jaane Koi.
11:13Jeti Man Ki Kalpana Kaal Kahave Soe.
11:16Time is another of our obsessions.
11:20And we never seem to get the better of it.
11:23Time. What is time? What is time?
11:25What is time?
11:27What is space time?
11:30And Kabir Sahab says, Jeti Man Ki Kalpana Kaal Kahave Soe.
11:37And here,
11:41he has hit two birds with this one arrow.
11:46And he says Jeti Man Ki Kalpana Kaal Kahave Soe.
11:49By Kaal he means not merely time but also death.
11:56Such fantastic mastery is rarely seen elsewhere.
12:01Obviously you get glimpses of it many other places as well.
12:05I respect all of them.
12:06All of them are very very dear to me.
12:09I worship them.
12:11But when it comes to Kabir Sahab, I said I am a fan boy.
12:17When he speaks, when he sings,
12:20I can just stand and clap all day.
12:31Brute honesty and childlike simplicity.
12:39How can you put these two together? Kabir Sahab does.
12:44Brute honesty and childlike simplicity and innocence.
12:58I sometimes say to the ones around me,
13:03if I am very unwell and dying,
13:09don't offer me Gangajal and all that.
13:12Just sing Kabir to me.
13:19Not that that would take me to heaven.
13:22That might actually make me get up.
13:27I am not interested in heavens or swarg.
13:31But if you bring Kabir Sahab to me,
13:35chances are I will just spring back to my feet.
13:42No mumbo jumbo.
13:51No miracles.
13:53No other worldly stuff.
14:04Kabira.
14:05The highest that the world can ever know is calling himself Kabira.
14:13Oh!
14:15Who will not fall in love with
14:26such a hero?
14:39And work and work.
14:43Work.
14:44Work the entire day.
14:48Work.
14:58And have the courage to speak truth to power.
15:05The bare truth.
15:08The hard-hitting truth.
15:13Never mix it up.
15:14Never dilute it.
15:20Put things as they are.
15:29And Sahab was attacked.
15:30He was attacked from all sides
15:32because he did not belong to any side.
15:36He didn't relent.
15:43On one hand, to me he is the greatest scholar of Advaita.
15:59You would not have heard such a description of Kabir Sahab.
16:03He is mentioned as a bhakti saint.
16:06To me, he is a great Vedanti.
16:12He is the greatest scholar of Advaita that the world has known.
16:18And he is also the greatest devotee when he says Ram.
16:26Of course, his Ram is not Maryada Purushottam Ram.
16:32These two streams become one in him.
16:35Gyan and Bhakti.
16:37You cannot describe him as a bhakti saint.
16:39The knowledge of the entire Vedic corpus shines simplified in Kabir Sahab.
16:52And yet he has the integrity to say
17:03when the Vedas talk of animal sacrifice
17:07Kabir says that Adharma is called Dharma in the Vedas.
17:26It goes something like this.
17:27Ashwamedh, Ajamedh, Sarpamedh, Narmedh
17:32Kabir says that Adharma is called Dharma in the Vedas.
17:36When it came to cruelty towards animals,
17:43Kabir Sahab is in another league.
17:48He is probably the only well known figure in the history of religion
17:53who has spoken very clearly, loudly and unsparingly
18:03against cruelty to animals and flesh eating.
18:07He did not spare even the Vedas.
18:11When the Vedas said that Ashwamedh should be there.
18:14You know what Ashwamedh is, right?
18:16A sacrifice in which the horse is offered.
18:19Similarly, Ajamedh in which the goat is offered.
18:25So Kabir Sahab says that Kabir says that Adharma is called Dharma in the Vedas.
18:31And that is another reason why I so closely identify with him.
18:39Today veganism is a cause we espouse.
18:43Kabir Sahab was a vegan in those times.
18:51He was the staunchest vegetarian at least.
18:54And he was very clear that if you eat flesh,
19:01if you kill animals and if you eat animal flesh,
19:06then you are entering into evil
19:14and no forgiveness, no redemption would be available to you.
19:25Nobody, just nobody has spoken so strongly against flesh eating.
19:32In fact, there have been teachers who were themselves flesh eaters.
19:39And in that background, when you look at Kabir Sahab,
19:44he is exemplary all alone in a league of himself.
19:55So not only does the Vedic stream,
19:59but even the Buddhist stream and the Jain stream
20:04come together and merge in him.
20:06He is the greatest Sangam this country has known.
20:09And I would also say, India in particular and the world in general
20:24have yet not given Kabir Sahab his due.
20:29His real place in the history of mankind
20:33is yet to be ascertained and evaluated.
20:38We take him very casually.
20:43Just because he never put up a great show about himself,
20:48we take him very casually.
20:50Go close to him and go close to all others
21:08and then you will realize how singularly,
21:15brightly he shines.
21:20Hmm?
21:37I can speak all night on him, so stop me.
21:40Stop me.
21:46In fact, I have spoken more on Kabir Sahab than I have done on anybody else,
21:51both in Hindi and English.
21:56And I think as long as this body is there, I will continue doing that.
22:00And his entire corpus is enormous.
22:06There is so much to speak on.
22:10Thank you.
22:41Thank you.
23:00And sense of humour.
23:04That's not easily found among religious spiritual people.
23:10My boss has a terrific sense of humour.
23:20People sometimes tell me that they look up to me not merely as a teacher
23:27but also as a stand-up comedian.
23:33They have probably not met my boss.
23:41Meet him and his brand of humour is
23:56delicate and rib-splitting.
24:11Hmm?
24:21Both insightful and casual.
24:31He is extremely casual.
24:33You will not find him serious.
24:36He just says things.
24:41Hmm?
24:46And what he just casually says,
24:51people interpret an entire…
24:56people take an entire lifetime to interpret.
25:01And he has just casually said something.
25:03Now you interpret it.
25:10Kabir Das ki oolti baani, barse kambal bheege paani.
25:24Hmm?
25:27He is saying, Kabir Das talks of it in an inverted way.
25:34Quilts are raining.
25:44And water is being wetted.
25:51At another place, he describes the wedding ceremony of an aunt.
25:58Cheeti ka byaah.
26:01Hmm?
26:03So now the aunt is having a grand wedding
26:08and the elephant has come over
26:11and the mouse has also come.
26:16And the entire thing is described and in the end he says
26:19the one who can realize what is being said here
26:24will cross over.
26:26If you can interpret what is going on, you will cross over.
26:30And the entire description is outrightly funny.
26:38He not merely meditates you, he outwits you.
26:47The zenith of all wit.
26:59Hmm?
27:12Hmm?
27:29Hmm?
27:35All right. Yes.
27:38And thanks for asking this, Yemi.
27:43I am seriously glad.
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