Episode 123: Spider Previews The Indy 500 & NBA Playoffs Recap With Ohio’s Tate
Mark Titus | The Mark Titus Show
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00:00:00 On today's episode of the Mark Titus Show, it is the greatest spectacle in racing this week in the Indianapolis 500.
00:00:05 It is also just the greatest weekend in racing. It is the Coca-Cola 600 is taking place.
00:00:10 If you're a NASCAR fan, if you're a Formula 1 fan, we got Monaco.
00:00:14 This is the one time of year I like to pivot the show away from basketball.
00:00:18 But having said that, I still brought Tate on.
00:00:21 Ohio State is here to, once again, to talk about the NBA playoffs.
00:00:25 So what we have on the docket today, I talked to Tate about the NBA playoffs.
00:00:29 The early reactions to Game 1.
00:00:32 We're recording this before Game 2 of Pacers-Celtics tonight.
00:00:36 So as of right now, as of this recording, we have seen one game from each of the Eastern Conference and the Western Conference finals.
00:00:43 And Tate and I just kind of talked about everything from the Minnesota Timberwolves' drop coverage,
00:00:49 to the Pacers choking it at the end of Game 1, obviously, to how good is Luka.
00:00:53 Kyrie has become, well, he hasn't become. He's always been really, really good.
00:00:58 But he's a guy that people almost forgot how good he was.
00:01:02 It's like there's a Kyrie, a Ky-Renaissance. Can we say that? Did I just coin that?
00:01:07 Are other people saying that? Because I might have just come up with something there.
00:01:11 Yeah, Kyrie Irving had a hell of a first half. Great game, but first half especially, and then Luka takes over the second half.
00:01:18 I had fun discussions with Tate. I really enjoy having Tate on.
00:01:20 I think we're going to see, if you're someone that's locked in on the Mark Titus show,
00:01:24 you might be seeing more of Tate on the show because I enjoy talking ball with him.
00:01:29 But after Tate, I brought on Spider, who does Rubbin' is Racing with Large here at Barstool.
00:01:34 They do the NASCAR podcast. They do a great job. I love both of those guys.
00:01:38 But I did this last year on the show when I was in New York for whatever reason at that time.
00:01:45 I had Spider come on the show to talk about what is the best weekend in racing.
00:01:50 I feel like autosports this weekend, this Sunday in particular, the Indy 500, Monaco, and the Coca-Cola 600, it is awesome.
00:01:58 It is incredible that all of those stars align to have one day where you can park your ass on the couch, watch all the racing.
00:02:04 So Spider and I, we talk racing a lot. We talk a lot about NASCAR.
00:02:08 He's shown an interest in the Indy 500. I've got to get him to one at some point.
00:02:13 I've been interested in NASCAR my whole life.
00:02:15 I had a ton of fun having him on last year and just celebrating both disciplines of racing and the differences between them and all that sort of thing.
00:02:24 So we're running it back again this year, especially because Kyle Larson is the guy who is maybe arguably, maybe he's not even arguably, I don't know.
00:02:33 I'm not as clued in on NASCAR, but I think it's pretty safe to say if you were someone who said he's the best NASCAR driver going right now, I don't think that's necessarily controversial.
00:02:44 He is participating in the double duty this year, which is he is going to run in the Indianapolis 500 in the afternoon.
00:02:51 He is going to fly to Charlotte, North Carolina immediately after Indy's over.
00:02:56 He is going to then take part in the Coca-Cola 600.
00:02:59 And what makes this super fascinating, one, is that it's been 10 years since anybody's tried this.
00:03:04 There have been a handful of guys for the years that have done both.
00:03:06 Tony Stewart's done it. Robbie Gordon's done it. John Andretti's done it.
00:03:09 Kyle Bush, Kurt Bush, I'm sorry, did it 10 years ago.
00:03:13 What makes this year specifically super interesting and has everybody kind of foaming at the mouth if you're into this sort of thing is that Kyle Larson has the talent to win both of them.
00:03:23 He could theoretically win both of them. Unlikely, obviously, to win both of them. Very hard to win either one.
00:03:29 So for him to win both, it would be crazy. But he has the ability, he has the car in both instances to win both of them.
00:03:37 So Spider and I are really fired up about this idea of a guy not only running the double duty.
00:03:41 It's only, by the way, it's only ever happened one time. Tony Stewart, one time is the only time, I forget what year, but one of the times he did it, is the only time anybody's ever ran both races in full.
00:03:52 So to even complete both races has only happened one time, much less win them, much less be in contention.
00:03:58 So, you know, it's a long shot probably for him to win both. Not even probably, it is for him to win both of them.
00:04:03 But the fact that he has the talent, he's in position, he started fifth in the NB500, the Coca-Cola 600, he's in a position, you know, he's a full-time NASCAR driver.
00:04:11 He's very, very good. I don't think that would exactly be shocking if he ended up winning the Coca-Cola 600.
00:04:17 So to start fifth in one race, be so dominant in the other sport of NASCAR, it's setting up this Sunday to where Kyle Larson is going to try to pull off the double duty.
00:04:28 And he just might contend in both races, and Spider and I are really fired up about it. So, yeah, he's on the show today, we talked about that.
00:04:34 But first, talked a little basketball with Tate before we get to Spider. Fun show today, hope you enjoy.
00:04:40 Alright, NBA Playoff talk. The Eastern Conference Finals are, as of right now, it's 1-0 Boston. We'll talk about that a little bit.
00:04:48 Pacers choked away Game 1 badly. Everybody listening, obviously Game 2 already happened. The Pacers won by 15, they bounced back really well.
00:04:55 I felt like Tyrese Halliburton in Game 2 played really well. The Celtics weren't hitting anything. Classic Game 2 performance. What other predictions do we want to have?
00:05:06 Just Game 2. Celts can't win in Game 2. Happened again.
00:05:09 No, no, no. Last time I did this, I said the Celtics were going to beat the Cavs by 1,000.
00:05:13 It was the first thing you said on the show.
00:05:15 Yeah, so you know what? Fuck it. The Celtics are going to win by 1,000 tonight. Pacers are going to go back to Indy down 2-0.
00:05:20 Obviously that game hasn't happened yet as we're recording this, so can't really speak much on that.
00:05:25 What we can talk about is the Dallas Mavericks going to Minnesota beat the Timberwolves 108-105 last night.
00:05:33 That series is obviously looking like it's going to be something. I think a lot of people expected...
00:05:41 I don't know, the Timberwolves were favored, right? The Timberwolves were favored.
00:05:45 Yes. Not only were the Timberwolves favored, but the Timberwolves, I think, had the cachet of having defeated the defending champions,
00:05:53 the three-time MVP Jokic. That defense was jumping off the screen at people.
00:05:58 Yes, we watched Oklahoma City play Dallas, but for some reason, I think going into the series, it felt like I didn't need to be explained how...
00:06:09 I'll put it this way. Luka Doncic, his defensive effort throughout his career has poisoned my brain to believe that no team that Luka's on can be good defensively,
00:06:19 despite all the evidence to the contrary, which is that he has 1,000 great athletes around him and all the length around him.
00:06:26 And he's playing better defense himself. Did I see multiple efforts last night out of Luka?
00:06:31 So I guess that's my way of saying, going into the series, I was like, yes, the Timberwolves are going to play great defense.
00:06:36 The Mavs should play great defense, but we'll see because it's still Luka.
00:06:39 And he's been locked in these playoffs defensively.
00:06:42 Yes, and last night was a perfect example of, I thought going into this, I was just wrong.
00:06:48 The NBA, it's every other game, overreaction, overreaction. If we would have filmed this show yesterday, I would have told you how the Tee Wolves are going to run away with this.
00:06:55 They're playing the best basketball. They just knocked out... Now I'm here today saying, wait, is this why the Mavericks made the trade for Kyrie?
00:07:02 Is this series over? They already stole one. They win another, it's over.
00:07:07 Last night was fun, though. Both these series are going to be fun.
00:07:11 No, I don't want to jump in. That's you having a little Indiana in you.
00:07:16 There is one series that's going to be fun, Mark Titus. And it is not the Eastern Conference.
00:07:21 Listen, I'm setting myself up for failure because the Boston Celtics did win by 10,000 last night in game two.
00:07:27 I think the Pacers... The reason why it stood out to me... I wanted to talk about Minnesota Mavericks first, but fuck it, let's just talk about Pacers-Celtics game one.
00:07:35 The difference... So the Celtics fuck up one game every series. They did it against the Cavs.
00:07:41 They did it last year. They do it every... It feels like this iteration...
00:07:46 They're good for one. They'll just hand a game to an inferior opponent and say, "Here."
00:07:51 And it's been at home, too, which is weird. It's been at home.
00:07:54 So the Pacers spot them 12 points. The Pacers come back. The Pacers are winning. The Pacers are in position to win.
00:08:00 It's 98% win probability, 99% whatever it was.
00:08:04 With the ball. 10 seconds left.
00:08:06 All you have to do is inbound the ball and make one free throw. That's it. That's all you have to do.
00:08:10 It's elementary stuff. Seventh graders could do it.
00:08:13 We'll talk fouling up three. We'll talk it off.
00:08:16 We'll talk it off. So this felt like on paper, or if you didn't really pay that much attention,
00:08:23 maybe this was the reason the Pacers, who are vastly outmatched according to oddsmakers,
00:08:29 according to experts, all that sort of thing, the reason they almost stole this game
00:08:34 is because the Celtics are good for one every series. And that's what that game was.
00:08:37 What I would challenge, though, is that one, the Celtics, when they fuck up and they blow a game,
00:08:45 it's usually because they're not hitting threes. The other team is hot.
00:08:48 And it's like the Celtics were, they hit 12 threes and say the team they're playing at like 21.
00:08:53 And that makes a big difference. Game one, Celtics hit more threes.
00:08:56 Celtics were shooting the ball fine. I didn't really feel like the Celtics played like dog shit.
00:09:00 Correct. Three players over 25 points. Like the Celtics were not bad.
00:09:04 But was this the one that they usually give up and they still won?
00:09:07 But everybody said this about the Knicks series with the Pacers.
00:09:10 When the Pacers blew game one against the Knicks and you're like that you had to win that one.
00:09:13 Now the series is over. Correct. So I listen. I think the Celtics are going to win the series.
00:09:17 I just like when I was watching game one, it didn't feel like a fluke because I think the way beating the Celtics
00:09:24 feels like a fluke is that the Celtics have the best offense in the NBA.
00:09:27 They are an unstoppable offense and they hit in threes and Tatum and Brown or you can't guard them one on one.
00:09:32 And like they're just so versatile. Number one, Porzingis isn't playing.
00:09:35 And that changes everything. When Al Horford, when 39 year old, 43 year old, how old is he now?
00:09:40 When Al Horford is shooting 12 threes in a game, you're playing right in you.
00:09:45 And Al Horford could hit threes, but you don't want him shooting 12.
00:09:48 So I think the way the Celtics have overwhelmed teams is that they are so high powered offensively
00:09:55 that you have two options. One is stop them. Good luck with that.
00:09:59 The other one is like match them on the other end with your offense.
00:10:03 And I think the Pacers, they don't have the talent the Celtics have.
00:10:07 They do have the comfort level of like playing at that pace.
00:10:10 If we have to play at this pace. OK, so if we're going into again, I hate that we're doing this
00:10:15 because game two happened last night and the Celtics won by a thousand.
00:10:17 I'm talking about the bigger series. If the Pacers are going every game against the Celtics
00:10:22 and the Celtics are saying the only way you can beat us is if you push tempo and you hit a ton of threes
00:10:26 and you have a bunch of shot makers, the Pacers are like, cool.
00:10:28 Yeah, like we're good with that. That's why I think it could be a series and like it could be interesting.
00:10:33 The Celtics are going to eventually win because they have more talent.
00:10:35 But that's why I believe the Pacers, it's not going to be a sweep.
00:10:38 I agree with you on that. My feeling comes from where I say it's not going to be serious,
00:10:42 is the mental toll that has come on the Pacers for it's hard enough to beat the Celtics already.
00:10:48 Yeah, they did it. And then it didn't count. You know what I mean?
00:10:51 So that's where the mental toll. But if we're talking strictly basketball wise,
00:10:55 you're saying we're playing at the Pacers pace. OK, right.
00:10:58 We're also we turn the ball over 22 times, which led to 32 points against the Celtics.
00:11:03 We can clean that up. We can clean up a lot of clean it up.
00:11:08 And then we almost won in Boston. Yeah.
00:11:11 So basketball wise, it's like, yeah, the Pacers can win this.
00:11:14 If you focus on the basketball part and yeah, there's a reason to believe that they can win.
00:11:19 It's the humanity part of like, how can you be how can you be in that locker room and not just be like,
00:11:24 fuck, dude, and like have like the deflation of like if you're a real out.
00:11:30 Do what do you say in the locker room afterwards? Like hand up? That one was on me.
00:11:35 You guys did. Yeah, you probably did. You probably said I should call time out.
00:11:38 They had a time out left. Right. They had a time out. So they didn't advance the ball.
00:11:41 Also, I hate to get like to like coach you know, do it. That's why you're here.
00:11:45 When you are trying to inbound the basketball going away from your back,
00:11:49 I want people coming towards the basketball.
00:11:53 I don't think the Pacers inbound play put them in the best position to inbound the basketball.
00:11:58 Like they had a straight guy going from midcourt towards the hoop.
00:12:02 Yeah, you're throwing it that way. Jalen Brown has all the recovery time to get his hand on it.
00:12:07 Now they get the luck of the draw where it goes out of bounds on the pace.
00:12:09 Hindsight's obviously 2020. Right. Yeah.
00:12:11 Like they would have been better off also not throwing it towards Boston.
00:12:15 Towards Boston. Correct. Have a guy going that way. Throw it long.
00:12:19 It tips off of a Pacers play. It goes out of bounds. And now they have it under the bucket.
00:12:23 Yeah. But now you're giving them under the bucket. Right.
00:12:25 Which, yeah, but there's a lot of hindsight.
00:12:29 Ultimately what you don't want to do is just fuck up the inbound.
00:12:31 They fucked up the inbound. Then, shout out to the Celtics who all the Pacers had to do was execute and the game didn't.
00:12:38 Celtics did get quite the fucking look. Are you fouling at the end of the game?
00:12:44 All right. So that's the question. Is the foul up three? I do foul up three.
00:12:49 I think you foul. I was texting the Mostly Sports chat when the Pacers turned it over.
00:12:55 I said foul here. And then I just replied. I just kept saying foul, foul, foul.
00:12:59 Because as they handed them the ball, I just had a feeling in my – as I'm watching the game, I'm like they're not going to foul.
00:13:04 So I just kept texting foul, foul, foul, foul, foul, foul.
00:13:07 You were texting the wrong chat, Titus. I think I was. I should have texted Rick.
00:13:10 Should have texted Carlisle instead of freaking Frank.
00:13:12 The one thing I will say is the NBA is different from high school and college with the continuation that I think –
00:13:17 if this is college basketball, Jalen Brown catches the ball, Siakam could hack him right away.
00:13:23 And then if Jalen Brown goes up –
00:13:25 They're saying no way.
00:13:27 No, no, no, no, on the floor, on the floor, on the floor. NBA, that's risky as fuck.
00:13:31 It's risky.
00:13:32 That's risky as fuck because if you catch – if it's a catch and no dribbles – and he wasn't particularly –
00:13:36 it wasn't like a dead-on catch thing, which is how Jalen Brown got the shot off.
00:13:39 But if like – if he's crawling up into a shit on the catch, maybe you could foul real quick.
00:13:43 But he was like – he was still kind of closing out with the foul.
00:13:47 I thought the circumstances – you should foul up three, absolutely.
00:13:51 But I think if he fouls and Jalen Brown goes up for the continuation and they give him three free throws
00:13:58 and Jalen Brown makes all three free throws, you're also looking at that and you're like,
00:14:01 the Pacers are the dumbest motherfuckers ever.
00:14:03 Why would they foul in that situation?
00:14:05 I think that – so if we're power ranking the fuck-ups by Rick Carlisle in the last 10 seconds,
00:14:10 the foul up three to me has been treated like it's number one.
00:14:13 It should be number three.
00:14:15 Like not using a timeout and taking it to the other end of the court is inexcusable.
00:14:19 That's bad.
00:14:20 I didn't like their execution on their inbounds play.
00:14:23 Yes, I'm a foul up three guy.
00:14:25 You are correct that it is much easier to do in high school and college when there's no continuation.
00:14:30 Also, there was – what was there, 8.5 seconds left?
00:14:33 Yeah.
00:14:34 That – so say he –
00:14:35 Yeah, that makes it a little different too.
00:14:37 You might have to do that two – maybe –
00:14:39 Okay, so he makes both free throws.
00:14:41 They come down.
00:14:42 You better make both your free throws.
00:14:44 Now there's seven seconds left.
00:14:46 Are you doing it again?
00:14:47 Yeah, do it again, yeah.
00:14:48 So that – I think he's getting a bad rap for the not foul.
00:14:51 Like under five seconds, I'm 100% of the time, that's what we teach, you're doing it.
00:14:54 Eight seconds left is a lot of time.
00:14:56 Also, the shot Jaylen Brown made was insane.
00:14:58 Like that was –
00:14:59 Yeah, he misses that.
00:15:00 We all are like –
00:15:01 Like if you –
00:15:02 Well coached.
00:15:03 If you're from the future and you go to Rick Carlisle right before that possession
00:15:06 and you play that clip for him and you pause it as Jaylen Brown is shooting the basketball
00:15:09 and you're like that's the shot you're going to give up here.
00:15:11 Good defense.
00:15:12 He would be like fuck yeah, dude.
00:15:13 Sign me up for that.
00:15:14 Yeah, I have a guy crawling – no, Seahawks didn't have a hand up obviously,
00:15:17 which I also didn't have a problem.
00:15:18 He had a hand in his ass.
00:15:19 Did you see that?
00:15:20 I didn't have a problem because of – I wonder how much Shea's foul in game seven played into that.
00:15:25 Right, would influence that.
00:15:26 Yeah, where he's in – he's like the last thing I want to do is foul him now.
00:15:30 But he was like crawled up into him a little bit otherwise.
00:15:33 And like it was a tough shot.
00:15:34 He made a tough shot and the Celtics –
00:15:36 The benefit we have though is that we are podcasters doing it after the fact.
00:15:40 Right.
00:15:41 And now it's like Carlisle, what the fuck, dude.
00:15:42 I know.
00:15:43 You should have known.
00:15:44 That's what I'm – like I didn't really have a – like for me the inbounds,
00:15:48 the Nimhard inbounds was brutal obviously to set up the three.
00:15:53 That one was really bad.
00:15:55 Really though it's Halliburton dribbling out of bounds twice.
00:15:58 It's true.
00:15:59 Those were the two that's like I – you can't have your best player,
00:16:03 your franchise player, your guy who's going off, you know,
00:16:07 like you just can't have – that can't happen.
00:16:09 It can't happen.
00:16:10 If that happened – if you're in high school and that happened,
00:16:13 you got to be irate as a coach.
00:16:14 Horrible.
00:16:15 So like the fact that an NBA player – and Drew Holiday is awesome.
00:16:17 And Drew Holiday, that's what he does is he pressures you.
00:16:19 He makes you think about things you don't want to have to think about.
00:16:22 But like – I mean we're NBA players here.
00:16:25 Correct.
00:16:26 You can't just be dribbling the ball out of bounds.
00:16:28 But in totality, like all of those things contributing,
00:16:31 that's one of the worst like end of game playoff losses that I can remember.
00:16:34 It is.
00:16:35 Game one, you're about to steal one in a series where people are really doubting
00:16:39 you, you're at their place.
00:16:40 Yeah.
00:16:41 As far as Pacers losses go, that's not the worst –
00:16:45 that's probably not the worst Pacers loss ever.
00:16:47 But I have – my interest in the United Pacers has waxed and waned
00:16:51 through the years.
00:16:52 And this team – it's not just this playoff run, but this entire season
00:16:56 this team has pulled me back in.
00:16:58 And that's probably the worst one I've experienced as a Pacers fan,
00:17:02 if that makes sense.
00:17:03 Which is – like I'm not speaking on behalf of the whole fan base.
00:17:06 But yeah, this is like – this to me is the most likable Pacers team
00:17:11 in my lifetime.
00:17:12 I fucking love them.
00:17:13 But I'm also like – I was one of the guys that wasn't into Reggie
00:17:16 when I was a kid.
00:17:17 Okay.
00:17:18 And everyone else –
00:17:19 That's a shocker.
00:17:20 So everyone else will tell you like the teams in the United –
00:17:21 In what world is Mark Titus growing up in small town Indiana?
00:17:23 Well, I just don't think – just because the guy is playing for your team.
00:17:28 Like I identify quickly he was a flopper.
00:17:31 And you know he's –
00:17:32 And you were more into good shooters because you were a shooter
00:17:34 and you're like Miller can't put the ball in the ocean.
00:17:37 He was just a noodle-armed flopper that – you know, I'm being told he's like a scorer.
00:17:41 He averages 18 a game for his career.
00:17:43 I was like I don't know.
00:17:44 I didn't like that he flopped all the time.
00:17:46 He whined at refs.
00:17:47 I don't know.
00:17:48 As a kid I was watching him.
00:17:49 I was like if this guy played anywhere else I wouldn't like him.
00:17:52 Why do I have to like him just because he –
00:17:54 Because he grew up –
00:17:55 His chest says Indiana on his chest.
00:17:57 So I just like – I'm not going to lie and say that I enjoy cheering for this guy.
00:18:01 I don't.
00:18:02 We don't cheer for laundry in the Titus household.
00:18:05 Yeah, kind of.
00:18:06 Yeah, as it comes – as it pertains to the Pacers, which by the way in Indiana –
00:18:10 I mean like pro basketball wasn't like –
00:18:13 I was going to say –
00:18:14 It's like the tiering of pro basketball is like –
00:18:16 What's it go?
00:18:17 It goes Hoosiers.
00:18:18 What did you say?
00:18:19 Minor league baseball.
00:18:20 It goes college.
00:18:21 So you have your basketball team, your high school basketball team,
00:18:23 your college basketball team's recruiting.
00:18:26 The CYO team.
00:18:27 The CYO team.
00:18:28 What might feed into the high school.
00:18:30 The local AAU team and then the Pacers probably.
00:18:33 Then we'll go Pacers.
00:18:34 But anyway, this team has pulled me back in.
00:18:38 I was very invested and they ripped my heart out and that was the most painful Pacers loss.
00:18:42 But, you know, long series and we'll see.
00:18:45 We'll see.
00:18:46 Now the Celtics are up 2-0 as we said, 1 by 1,000 game 2.
00:18:48 Must win game 3 now, right?
00:18:50 We're heading back to Indy game 3.
00:18:52 You're getting game 3.
00:18:55 It will be – it's Saturday night, right?
00:18:57 Saturday night before the Indy 500 is game 3 in Indy.
00:19:01 Is that a question?
00:19:02 I'm just an Ohio boy.
00:19:04 Is that a pro or a con?
00:19:06 Are we just continuing the party or is it a we're focused on this,
00:19:11 we don't have time for that?
00:19:12 It's a pro.
00:19:14 Everyone's foaming at the mouth.
00:19:15 The city is – like the last time the Pacers were in this spot was 2014
00:19:19 and it was the same deal I think.
00:19:21 I think there was a game – maybe that was a road game.
00:19:24 I don't know.
00:19:25 I have like a vague memory of a game before the Indy 500 has happened before.
00:19:31 Or maybe the night – yeah, it was fucking crazy.
00:19:33 Downtown is bonkers.
00:19:34 The Pacers have never lost a home game on Indy 500.
00:19:37 No, the Indy Pacers did not lose on Indy 500 weekend.
00:19:38 It won't happen.
00:19:40 So, yeah, that's the Pacers.
00:19:43 Carlisle was – he took the blame.
00:19:46 But Halliburton came away from game 1.
00:19:47 It was like we proved that we can play with them, so that's good.
00:19:49 The messaging is good.
00:19:50 I just wonder internally.
00:19:52 I wonder after all the press conferences were done, after all the locker room rah-rah,
00:19:56 we'll be all right, chin up boys, we got this,
00:19:58 and everyone dispersed back home or back to their hotel rooms I should say.
00:20:02 Internally what happened?
00:20:03 And then the door shuts to the hotel room and you're in your hotel by yourself.
00:20:06 Fuck.
00:20:07 All those guys are just like –
00:20:08 We pissed that one away.
00:20:09 Yeah, yeah, I think they are.
00:20:12 The Timberwolves though, the Timberwolves and the Mavs,
00:20:15 I want to talk to you about – there's two things from game 1 that stood out to me
00:20:20 that I want to talk to you about.
00:20:21 Number one, Kyrie Irving.
00:20:24 Now you are a guy who knows Kyrie Irving well.
00:20:26 Too well, yeah.
00:20:28 Having played for the Cleveland Cavaliers, that's the one time he won an NBA championship.
00:20:32 Until he chose to leave a LeBron James Cavaliers team that was ready to win championships.
00:20:36 That's right.
00:20:37 That's a little foreshadowing for my thoughts on Kyrie Irving.
00:20:39 Well, that's why I wanted to talk to you because as Kyrie Irving last night
00:20:43 in the first half is going off, it felt like the general public sentiment towards Kyrie Irving,
00:20:50 a man who has been just dragged through the mud like crazy.
00:20:54 A lot of it deserved.
00:20:55 Well deserved.
00:20:56 A lot of it well deserved.
00:20:57 Hard earned.
00:20:58 Not saying it was undeserved whatsoever.
00:21:00 I'm just saying that is who Kyrie Irving has been.
00:21:03 On the court, off the court, all of it.
00:21:06 An absolute circus at all times.
00:21:08 Yes.
00:21:09 But I noticed something last night.
00:21:11 As Kyrie is going off, it's like basketball fans were--
00:21:17 I'm just going to say it.
00:21:19 I kind of like Kyrie.
00:21:20 I know.
00:21:21 I got to be honest.
00:21:22 I love watching this duplex.
00:21:24 I know.
00:21:25 It felt like one after another where people are just getting the courage.
00:21:28 He said it.
00:21:29 Oh, he said it?
00:21:30 Okay, well, fuck it.
00:21:31 I'm going to say it too then.
00:21:32 Kyrie, dude, as far as watching guys play basketball, he's one of my top ten favorite
00:21:37 players to watch play basketball.
00:21:39 But it was easy because he was such a douchebag and such a loser.
00:21:43 And that's just no offense.
00:21:45 That's no offense.
00:21:47 But it was easy to pick at him because of that thing.
00:21:50 When he's changed-- has he grown as a person?
00:21:52 Is he different or is he-- did he?
00:21:55 Did you shut up and dribble?
00:21:58 [laughter]
00:22:00 No, I was talking to Brandon about that.
00:22:03 I genuinely have no idea what Kyrie has done off the court in the last year, year and a half.
00:22:10 And that's a good thing.
00:22:11 Which is probably a good thing for Kyrie because it is like-- I mean, people will get upset
00:22:16 and be like, "No, these guys--" I mean, have whatever stances you want to have on whatever.
00:22:22 Fuck all that.
00:22:23 I'm too stupid to suss through and pretend like I give that much of a shit.
00:22:28 I will say it does help as a consumer of whatever you have going on.
00:22:34 If you are limiting what I'm consuming and all I really see is you balling out,
00:22:38 yeah, I'm going to be like, "Dude, that guy's fucking awesome."
00:22:41 But if you ball out in the postgame press conference, you're like,
00:22:43 "I read this book that Amazon doesn't want to publish.
00:22:46 You guys should check it out too."
00:22:48 "It's got some questionable shit in it."
00:22:50 Did you stay tuned for Inside the NBA last night when he went on
00:22:53 and they talked about Ant's comments for him being like,
00:22:55 "He's sitting at home on his couch. He sees that."
00:22:58 It's like, "Dude, do that and you're going to be one of the top five most popular players in the league."
00:23:02 Right.
00:23:03 "No one cares about your thoughts on the earth."
00:23:05 Yeah, the flat earth type bullshit.
00:23:07 So I don't know what made him do this.
00:23:10 I don't know how we got here, but that's what I realized last night
00:23:15 watching Kyrie Irving going off in the first half.
00:23:17 I was like, "Not only am I enjoying this, but it feels like the discourse around Kyrie
00:23:23 has just, on the snap of a finger, has changed."
00:23:28 And not just the off the court stuff, the on the court stuff, Tate.
00:23:31 When they traded for him.
00:23:32 This was last night.
00:23:33 When they signed him, everyone was like, "This is a terrible idea for the Mavericks."
00:23:35 What they did last night, and it's crazy to say, but if you pinpointed
00:23:39 the trajectory of Kyrie Irving, people hate him, people hate him,
00:23:42 last night changed everything.
00:23:44 They love him now, and people are saying, "Wait, this is the exact reason
00:23:47 why the Mavericks made this trade."
00:23:49 Because in the first half, Kyrie got to do it.
00:23:52 And then it was a perfect--
00:23:54 Were you a track runner back in the day?
00:23:55 You ever run track?
00:23:56 I did in seventh grade, I think.
00:23:58 You ever see the handoff of the baton?
00:23:59 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:24:00 I was on the 4x1 team.
00:24:01 Perfect.
00:24:02 Kyrie Irving, did he not hand off the baton to Luka Doncic in the second half?
00:24:06 Can I stop you right there?
00:24:07 Yeah.
00:24:08 Did I need to have track experience to know the phrase "handing of the baton"?
00:24:12 Is that important for my understanding of that metaphor?
00:24:15 I don't want to dumb it down, but when I think Indiana racing, I think in cars.
00:24:19 When I think in Ohio racing, I think on the track.
00:24:21 What if I would have said, "No, I never ran track"?
00:24:23 Then I would have got out the clipboard.
00:24:25 You'd be like, "Fuck, well, I guess I can't use the passing of the baton."
00:24:27 So they got this thing in the baton.
00:24:29 My point being, Titus, is that last night, Kyrie was able to do it
00:24:35 until it was turned for Luka to do it.
00:24:37 And what Kyrie did on offense to tire down Ant
00:24:42 ended up being the whole fucking--
00:24:44 That was kind of the thing.
00:24:45 The game.
00:24:46 Everyone looks like a genius.
00:24:47 Jason Kidd looks like a genius last night.
00:24:49 Yeah, and Anthony Edwards shot 12 threes.
00:24:52 He shot 16 times, 12 of them were from the three-point line
00:24:55 because he was just kind of shooting bailout threes, tire threes.
00:24:58 He said afterwards, he's like, "I got to get downhill more.
00:25:00 I got to do more."
00:25:01 It's like, well, why couldn't you?
00:25:02 Because you had to chase around fucking Kyrie Irving all day.
00:25:05 Yeah, Kyrie has-- Bryson DeChambeau has done it too.
00:25:08 If you would have gone back in 2021, 2020,
00:25:13 and told sports fans that in a handful of years,
00:25:18 everybody will love Kyrie Irving and Bryson DeChambeau.
00:25:21 That's crazy.
00:25:22 But it's the truth right now.
00:25:23 It's the truth.
00:25:24 All in one weekend.
00:25:25 I guess that's kind of inspiring is nobody's--
00:25:28 If you can change, and I can change.
00:25:30 We don't give up, but we--
00:25:31 I think people do like to tear people down,
00:25:33 but then the second they get torn down,
00:25:35 you do like to help them back up and pretend like you didn't tear them down.
00:25:38 I did that with Rick Pitino.
00:25:40 That was your move?
00:25:41 I did that with Rick Pitino.
00:25:42 When Rick Pitino got fired, I was like, "Ha ha!"
00:25:45 But now he's back, and you're like--
00:25:48 They were all a little too tough on him.
00:25:50 I went one year without Rick Pitino,
00:25:52 and I was like, "I will never forgive the media for what they did to this man."
00:25:55 I can't believe the way they talked about him.
00:25:57 The way they treated him.
00:25:59 Everyone's like, "Titus, that was you, dude.
00:26:01 You were driving that bus."
00:26:02 I was like, "Was I driving that bus?"
00:26:05 Point being, though, if Kyrie's going to play like that,
00:26:08 are--was everyone wrong?
00:26:10 Are the Mavs now--the Wolves can't guard the Mavs.
00:26:14 Yeah, I think it becomes interesting when you realize
00:26:18 how deep and athletic the Mavs are.
00:26:21 They kind of have an answer for anything.
00:26:22 Whatever style the game becomes, if you want to slow it down and grind it out,
00:26:26 they have ISO guys.
00:26:27 That's what Luka can do.
00:26:29 He can play hero ball and milk the shot clock
00:26:32 if that's what the game entails.
00:26:36 They move the ball around well, though.
00:26:38 They're throwing lobs to everybody.
00:26:40 The difference, to me, between--
00:26:43 the reason I'm worried about the Timberwolves' offense, especially,
00:26:46 is because against the Nuggets--the Nuggets play great defense,
00:26:50 but they don't have--theirs is more of a schematic thing.
00:26:52 Theirs is more like--you know, like Gordon and KCP can guard guys,
00:26:57 but what's made them good is they're kind of all on the same page
00:27:01 and their rotations are good and all that sort of thing.
00:27:04 But they don't have rim protection.
00:27:06 They don't have guys that are--other than Aaron Gordon
00:27:08 under certain circumstances, they don't have guys who are physically
00:27:11 going to overwhelm you and swallow you alive.
00:27:15 The Mavericks have that.
00:27:16 The Mavericks have that with Gafford and Lively and Derrick Jones.
00:27:19 The Mavericks are able to guard the Wolves.
00:27:22 Yeah, and they have dudes that have length and athleticism
00:27:25 and size and rim protection, and then on the offense they can throw lobs
00:27:29 and they can hit threes, and they didn't even make threes in game one.
00:27:33 I always like to think, what are the coaches thinking after that first one?
00:27:37 The Mavs are thinking that they stole game one and shot 6 of 25 from three.
00:27:41 They've got to be feeling good.
00:27:43 I think the Mavs can guard the Tee Wolves.
00:27:45 I don't think the Tee Wolves can guard the Mavs.
00:27:47 I think they can; they just did for some reason.
00:27:51 They did not.
00:27:52 They just chose not to for some reason.
00:27:54 I don't understand.
00:27:55 And I guess that brings me to the second point I wanted to talk to you about,
00:27:57 drop coverage.
00:28:00 Number one, we can do a hyper-focused discussion about game one
00:28:04 and Rudy Gobert playing drop coverage on ball screens,
00:28:07 specifically when Luka was coming off of ball screens in the second half
00:28:10 and Mike Conley in the postgame press conference is saying
00:28:13 that wasn't the plan.
00:28:14 I don't know why he did that.
00:28:16 He didn't really throw Rudy under the bus.
00:28:18 You might want to text Mike on that one.
00:28:19 Yeah, was he throwing Rudy under the bus?
00:28:21 He was throwing--he might have thrown the whole damn team under the bus.
00:28:24 He's teammate of the year.
00:28:25 Mike Conley wouldn't just throw someone under the bus.
00:28:27 They ran drop coverage 90% of the game.
00:28:29 And he's like, "We weren't running no drop coverage.
00:28:31 That wasn't the game plan."
00:28:33 Maybe Mike is dumb and doesn't realize they were running drop coverage.
00:28:37 Maybe Mike got the assignment wrong.
00:28:38 Nope.
00:28:39 Where's the pro Mike Conley podcast?
00:28:40 No, dude, we are--I'm as pro Mike Conley as it gets.
00:28:43 But, yeah, so we can talk about that.
00:28:47 I want to first have a broader discussion about drop coverage in general
00:28:51 because--
00:28:52 Oh, you're going to pull out the clipboard here?
00:28:54 You're a basketball coach, right?
00:28:56 Yep, high school.
00:28:57 You're a lifelong basketball player.
00:28:59 Now, the game of off's, no question about that.
00:29:02 The game that I was taught 20 years ago is not the same game that certainly
00:29:06 the NBA players are playing.
00:29:08 That is not--certainly it's the NBA--
00:29:10 Breaking news.
00:29:11 Breaking news.
00:29:12 Completely different game, right?
00:29:16 However, I will say that the idea that we live in a world where a viable
00:29:22 defensive strategy for a guy who is guarding a ball screen,
00:29:25 as a guard comes off a screen, and I'm guarding the guy who is setting
00:29:28 the screen, a viable defensive strategy is I'm going to retreat.
00:29:33 I'm going to back up to the rim.
00:29:34 You're guarding the screener.
00:29:35 Yeah.
00:29:36 You're going to drop.
00:29:37 I'm going to drop all the way back to the rim, and what I'm going to do
00:29:39 by doing so is give the guy coming off the screen all the room in the world
00:29:44 to do whatever he wants.
00:29:46 This became a thing in the NBA, and I sort of understand why because
00:29:50 my understanding of it is you are baiting offensive teams into shooting
00:29:53 mid-range shots, and especially if you have a guy like Rudy Gobert,
00:29:56 who's such a freak athlete and so long, he plays drop coverage.
00:30:00 If you want to shoot the pull-up from the elbow, say,
00:30:04 I'm going to challenge as you're shooting.
00:30:05 I'm not going to block it more often than not, but I'm going to challenge it.
00:30:08 Now what has happened is I have baited you into shooting a challenged
00:30:12 mid-range shot, which is the worst shot in basketball,
00:30:16 and I think this became en vogue.
00:30:18 This became a viable thing, and now you see guys--
00:30:22 I'm just speaking from my experience.
00:30:24 If I played one possession in college at Ohio State,
00:30:28 if there was one ball screen-- now I'm not Rudy Gobert.
00:30:30 I'm not 7'2" with long arms.
00:30:34 Never mind me. If Greg Oden would have done this, if Greg Oden would have--
00:30:38 How would that have felt about that?
00:30:40 There's a ball screen at the top of the key, and Greg Oden is retreating back
00:30:43 to the-- that's how he's guarding the ball screen.
00:30:46 I think he would have called a timeout and mother-fucked Greg the entire timeout.
00:30:49 I understand the game has evolved, all that sort of thing.
00:30:51 That is an old man thing that I am having trouble with,
00:30:54 and it was music to my ears listening to Stan Van Gunne losing his fucking mind,
00:30:58 just yelling, "Why are they continuing the drop coverage?"
00:31:01 Because that's exactly what I was saying on TV, which is like,
00:31:04 "Start out the game doing it that way," because you do want to limit the rolls
00:31:08 to the basket, you do want to limit the lobs, and you do want to stay attached
00:31:12 to shoot it. There's a lot of things that go into it, because if you play up on them,
00:31:17 now you're opening up all sorts of other stuff.
00:31:20 But at a certain point, when Luka Doncic is coming off a ball screen
00:31:23 and he's got no resistance, and he's got his primary defender trying to catch up,
00:31:27 and he's on his hip, and he's leaning into him, creating space,
00:31:30 and then now Rudy comes to challenge the shot, and he throws a wrap-around bounce pass,
00:31:33 and he's just having his way, I'm going crazy, just like, "Do something else."
00:31:38 The problem is, I have no problem with them trying it.
00:31:40 So the general thought is that when you drop, you're protecting the rim,
00:31:44 and then you want the guy going over the screen trying to at least get a back contest
00:31:48 on a mid-range. The biggest problem is the two people that it's hardest to do on,
00:31:52 and probably the entire NBA, is Kyrie and Luka.
00:31:55 So they can score from all three levels, and then you've got to cheat up a little bit,
00:32:00 because they can score in that mid-range. Well, then they're just lobbing and lobbing.
00:32:04 I have no problem with starting in it. Where is the adjustment when all night
00:32:08 it isn't working?
00:32:10 But the other thing is, what are you going to do?
00:32:14 Are you going to straight-up switch and have Rudy guard Luka?
00:32:17 Well, he's going to go right around him.
00:32:19 Are you going to try and blitz the ball screens, and then--
00:32:23 you know who I want passing out of a blitz ball screen? Kyrie and Luka.
00:32:27 I'm not saying there's an answer, but the answer is not,
00:32:31 "Maybe they've torched us 10 straight times doing this for the entire game."
00:32:35 Can they keep it up?
00:32:36 I go one-three-one zone, and I trap him in the corner.
00:32:39 I funnel the ball to the corners and then trap him and--
00:32:42 [laughter]
00:32:44 Good adjustment.
00:32:45 Yeah, that's what I would do if I was coaching third-grade basketball.
00:32:48 No, you're right. That's the hard thing about watching the NBA
00:32:53 and then trying to talk about the defense, and the people that are out there
00:32:56 that still love Rudy Gobert, which--
00:32:59 I don't have the energy to do it again, but it is interesting to me that the guy is--
00:33:05 he's been sold to me as a generational defensive talent,
00:33:07 and every single time I watch a playoff series,
00:33:10 it's not that he's giving up points.
00:33:12 It's that the other team is specifically attacking him--
00:33:15 Going at him.
00:33:16 --going at him.
00:33:17 At the defensive.
00:33:18 In the same way that you would go at me if we were playing--
00:33:20 if I'm at Ohio State basketball practice and I'm on the floor,
00:33:23 and they're all like, "All right, clear out. I'm going to tie you."
00:33:25 Mouse in the house. We got it.
00:33:27 Everything that I've been taught about this game says,
00:33:29 if you are every time now on the floor saying, "Let's attack that guy,"
00:33:32 then that guy probably sucks at defense.
00:33:34 Correct.
00:33:35 Now you're telling me that guy is actually not only the best defender in the league,
00:33:37 he's one of the best defenders of all time,
00:33:40 and this happens series after series after series after series with this guy.
00:33:44 Anyway, I digress.
00:33:46 Are they going to play this--
00:33:48 is it possible to have to force them to take out the Defensive Player of the Year?
00:33:53 Because at some point, I think you have to try to switch.
00:33:57 This is what I would say, because I do think there are people that are listening to me
00:34:01 talk about this and they're losing their minds,
00:34:02 because you don't get what Rudy brings to the table.
00:34:05 And when you take him out, the paint is open.
00:34:07 It's opening up all the soil. And that is true.
00:34:09 So it can be frustrating talking about what to do defensively in the NBA,
00:34:13 because it ultimately just boils down to the other guys.
00:34:15 The guys you're trying to guard are good as fuck, and there's no real answer.
00:34:19 My frustration, and you seem to agree, is you're trying something.
00:34:25 It's not fucking working. Let's try something different, Tate.
00:34:28 Let's try something different.
00:34:31 That's why I love Stan Van Gundy, because he's got that old-school thing in him that I do too,
00:34:37 which is something's in vogue, and drop coverage is kind of in vogue.
00:34:41 Were people playing drop coverage on ball screens like ten years ago?
00:34:46 Not fucking really. And if they were, it was laziness.
00:34:48 Correct.
00:34:49 It was just laziness.
00:34:50 Get your ass up there.
00:34:52 The guys that don't want to hedge ball screens are like,
00:34:53 "I'm just going to chill back here and be lazy about it."
00:34:55 Coach, this is called drop coverage. In ten years, you'll be--
00:34:57 I was an innovator.
00:35:00 I don't know. What adjustment are you going to make going into game two?
00:35:03 Because they can't play that again, partially because they got torched,
00:35:06 but partially because the whole world will be like, "Coach, what the fuck?"
00:35:09 They've got to stay more connected, get up in them and pressure, and make them make plays.
00:35:13 Switch up defenses. I don't know.
00:35:15 The other thing, you talk about switching. I had that same moment--
00:35:20 I don't know if it was ten years ago, but seven-ish years ago,
00:35:24 when I would watch the Warriors with Draymond. Maybe it was about ten years ago.
00:35:28 I don't know if they were the team that specifically started it,
00:35:31 but they were the first team that I noticed, because Draymond is such a Swiss Army knife defensively,
00:35:35 that they would just switch every screen.
00:35:36 If you can switch one through five.
00:35:38 They were switching one through five.
00:35:39 Love it.
00:35:40 I had the same-- I don't know if epiphany is the right word, but just the same--
00:35:44 God damn, I'm old and the game has changed.
00:35:46 I also remember thinking, if you're playing basketball,
00:35:52 and you just yell "switch" at every screen that's being set, you're laziest.
00:35:56 Yeah, Coach Tate--
00:35:58 And now it's like the 73-win Warriors are like,
00:36:01 "No, what you're going to want to do is switch every ball screen."
00:36:04 That's why when you play pickup basketball, there's ball screens.
00:36:07 All of us just yell "switch," because we don't want to fight over this shit.
00:36:10 We're just like, "Yeah, if I could switch it."
00:36:12 So the NBA became what you would see in a Sunday morning Old Man's League.
00:36:15 Right. It's kind of reverted back to the Old Man's League.
00:36:18 It has.
00:36:19 And these are the best players in the world.
00:36:22 Anyway, I wonder if the miscommunication, too--
00:36:24 I was thinking about this. You're a coach. You're going to have to explain this to me.
00:36:27 Chris Finch blows out his knee.
00:36:29 He's on crutches for the Timberwolves.
00:36:31 Now, it obviously wasn't much of a problem against the Nuggets,
00:36:34 but how much is that going to be a problem when you've got Mike Inouye running--
00:36:37 he's kind of the head coach, but he's not really the head coach.
00:36:40 But he's--you know.
00:36:42 Maybe there's some crossing of wires going on there.
00:36:45 Chris Finch is the head man.
00:36:47 But not the acting.
00:36:48 But he's not the acting head man, but he's also sitting right there.
00:36:51 Yeah, that's tough to do.
00:36:52 And then Inouye's the one pacing the sidelines.
00:36:54 I will say, I get--all jokes aside, if there's not a leader,
00:36:59 if there's not one voice who's making the calls, that's bad.
00:37:02 Yeah, we saw it with Michigan basketball with Juan Howard and Bill Martelli.
00:37:06 I mean, you saw it with the Lakers.
00:37:09 You got LeBron and Frank Vogel trying to make the calls.
00:37:13 Last thing I want to talk about--Caitlin Clark.
00:37:17 You're a women's basketball guy.
00:37:19 You're a girls' basketball guy.
00:37:20 Am I ever going to shed that label?
00:37:23 No.
00:37:24 I coach high school basketball.
00:37:27 I guess you're right.
00:37:28 I do like being the resident, like, "Oh, let's talk Caitlin Clark."
00:37:33 I also do watch the men's game.
00:37:35 Well, I would bring it--oh, never mind.
00:37:38 I'm not going to say that.
00:37:39 No, Titus, no.
00:37:40 Sure, sure, sure.
00:37:41 I'm not even going to say that.
00:37:42 It was a joke at others' expenses that aren't here.
00:37:46 It's not good to talk about it behind people's back.
00:37:49 Very big of you.
00:37:50 Anyway, Caitlin Clark is in the W.
00:37:53 Have the Fever won yet?
00:37:54 Have we won a game?
00:37:55 We were 0-4 last night.
00:37:56 I think we lost again last night.
00:37:58 Did we lose again last night?
00:37:59 Is it 0-5 now?
00:38:02 Yeah, we lost by 2 last night.
00:38:04 We're 0-5.
00:38:05 Lost by 2.
00:38:06 We're up 2 going into the 4th.
00:38:08 Does Caitlin Clark not have the clutch, June?
00:38:10 She might not.
00:38:11 Wow.
00:38:12 She might not.
00:38:13 But there is--the Caitlin Clark discourse, if you want to call it that,
00:38:18 has now gotten to the point where it feels like the league,
00:38:22 which is not the suits in the corporate office.
00:38:27 I mean, like the players and coaches.
00:38:29 Can I say something real quick?
00:38:30 Go ahead.
00:38:31 I need you to start referring--instead of saying the league,
00:38:33 the new hot trend, the W.
00:38:34 The W, okay.
00:38:35 The W.
00:38:36 The W.
00:38:37 The W, and I don't mean the people in the boardroom.
00:38:39 I mean the people in the locker rooms.
00:38:41 The players.
00:38:42 The players are rejecting Caitlin Clark, and they've had it.
00:38:46 We saw a little bit of this as she was going on the final four run
00:38:49 of the National Championship game.
00:38:52 The old legends are, you know, Diana Taurasi was probably the most famous example,
00:38:56 just saying she's going to have a hard--
00:38:58 Multiple times.
00:38:59 Double down.
00:39:00 But now that she's gotten to the W, it's continued.
00:39:04 It feels like the people that love Caitlin Clark are like, "Be easy on her.
00:39:08 You guys are fucking morons.
00:39:10 She's giving you guys charter flight.
00:39:12 She's created interest."
00:39:15 I saw a stat the other day.
00:39:17 Caitlin Clark has already played more games on ESPN or ABC--I think it was ABC
00:39:22 than Paolo Bencaro has in his--
00:39:24 I love that stat.
00:39:25 I didn't see that one coming.
00:39:26 No, I mean--but you're right.
00:39:28 Go ahead.
00:39:29 No, but I was going to say where do we land on this because that seems to be--
00:39:34 like the people that love Caitlin Clark are like shitting on those people.
00:39:37 I'm kind of like I agree with that, but also they're competitors,
00:39:40 and like what do you want them to do, just like bow down and kiss her ass
00:39:43 and kiss her feet?
00:39:44 I don't know.
00:39:45 It's all like an interesting dynamic that's going on in that league
00:39:47 because I think every rookie that has hype in any sports league that comes
00:39:51 into the league, there is going to be a veteran--
00:39:53 And all the vets are going to say there's a learning curve.
00:39:55 There's a learning curve.
00:39:56 This is the best 12 teams in the world.
00:39:58 So I get where they're coming from with there's going to be a learning curve.
00:40:02 It's not going to be as easy.
00:40:05 Also--correct me if I can't say this.
00:40:11 Charles Barkley might be the only person on earth that can start a saying with,
00:40:14 "Those women," and I'm about to do one.
00:40:17 Am I wrong or have those women for the last decade not been whining
00:40:23 and complaining about not having private flights or the attendance
00:40:26 or the interest in the league?
00:40:28 And this one little girl from Iowa has just come in.
00:40:31 She walked through the airport, Titus, one time, and the next day
00:40:36 they announced a two-year deal, $25 million, we're going to charter flights.
00:40:39 They talk about the interest in the league.
00:40:41 Her preseason game had two times as many fans as the highest attended
00:40:47 Fever game last year.
00:40:49 Why are we so upset with Kaitlyn Clark?
00:40:53 Yeah, I know.
00:40:56 The only thing--I don't even know where I fall on it.
00:41:01 That's why I guess I wanted to bring it up.
00:41:02 I wanted you to tell me how to feel about it.
00:41:03 The only thing is--and I've tried to say this to Brandon too--
00:41:07 I do think it would be hard to rewire your brain if you are another--
00:41:14 I don't want to name names because I'm not keeping tabs on which players
00:41:18 are being shitty to her and which ones aren't.
00:41:19 So Taurasi's been the biggest one by far.
00:41:21 Let's just say Taurasi.
00:41:22 If you're a diet of Taurasi, to get that good at basketball,
00:41:25 you have to spend your entire life--every time you step on a basketball court,
00:41:29 you're there to kill the other person across from you.
00:41:32 You have to grind--she has put in just as much work as any NBA--
00:41:39 as in Michael Jordan, as in Kobe Bryant.
00:41:41 Name the hard workers that played men's basketball.
00:41:44 She has done that herself, and that's how she got to this level.
00:41:47 To ask someone like her to then be put in a position where we need you to lose
00:41:53 that edge and actually--this other girl is going to be on a different team,
00:41:58 and I want you to be warm and accommodating to her--
00:42:00 Coddle her a little bit, yeah.
00:42:01 Coddle her and bow down to her and kiss her feet and thank her.
00:42:04 And you know what you need to do when you meet her?
00:42:05 I want you to thank her so much for all she's done for the game.
00:42:09 I can sort of understand why she would be like, "Fuck you."
00:42:13 But having said that, you're exactly right.
00:42:16 The whole reason that people care about what these people's thoughts are
00:42:21 on Kaitlin Clark, on really anything related to women's basketball,
00:42:26 is kind of because women's basketball has been pulled up by this era that we're in.
00:42:31 I think--yeah, I was going to say--I'll tell you how to feel on this, Titus.
00:42:33 The way to feel is that when you are on the court, yes, you want to go at the rook.
00:42:39 You want to go at the girl that everyone says--because Diane Taurasi,
00:42:42 best ever do it, right, did the same--obviously didn't play the same way--
00:42:46 very successful in college, very successful in the pros,
00:42:48 and all of a sudden you're acting like this girl who's got to be 22, 23 years old
00:42:51 is going to come in and run the league on day one?
00:42:53 No, no she's not, and I'm going to show you exactly why.
00:42:56 It is okay to be excited that the Fever are 0-5 and that she didn't play well, blah, blah.
00:43:01 The problem I have is in the outside and off the court conversations--
00:43:07 Yeah, you don't need to do all that.
00:43:09 --how in the world do you not say anything other than,
00:43:12 "This is great for the league and we're so excited to have it."
00:43:15 Yeah, and the people that are--they're journalists that are like,
00:43:19 "Why did it take Kaitlin Clark to get this league?"
00:43:21 Just shut the fuck up and be happy that the league is popping off.
00:43:24 Just shut the fuck up and be happy that--
00:43:26 So we wanted it, we wanted it, we wanted it, it's now happening.
00:43:30 What do these people want? Do they want it to go back?
00:43:33 It's going to take more than one person.
00:43:35 I think all that's stupid.
00:43:37 When LeBron entered the league and you ask Michael Jordan,
00:43:41 "Hey, what do you think about that? Hey, did you see this guy out of Akron?
00:43:44 He's pretty fun, right?" Michael Jordan's like, "Shut the fuck up, dude."
00:43:48 And I just think that that's how a competitor should be wired,
00:43:51 but you're right, off the court, you should have a little more perspective.
00:43:56 But it's an interesting dynamic because as the Fever continue to lose games,
00:44:00 I am interested to see how that's going to--
00:44:02 At what point--
00:44:03 We've got to figure it out, we've got to get one.
00:44:05 But yeah, I mean, if the Fever are 0-12 and Kaitlin Clark is still playing on ABC
00:44:11 and if you want to watch the two teams that are the two best in the league,
00:44:14 you've got to buy this package.
00:44:16 The WBA package.
00:44:18 I mean, there's got to be some head scratching going on where they're like,
00:44:20 "What is--?"
00:44:21 That's fair, that's very fair.
00:44:22 "What are we doing as a league here?"
00:44:23 I can see where the animosity would come from that,
00:44:25 but just the general interest in the league,
00:44:28 even the fact that we're having this conversation right now--
00:44:30 No, this is a good thing.
00:44:31 --is a good thing for the league.
00:44:32 I said that about Kaitlin Clark when this past tournament run,
00:44:36 because the hatred was starting to come out then.
00:44:38 I was like, "This is the best thing that can happen to women's basketball,"
00:44:41 because you're actually finally treating women's basketball like it's just basketball.
00:44:44 You said earlier, "I wasn't a women's basketball coach, I was a basketball coach."
00:44:48 We are now having discussions about women's basketball like we would men's basketball.
00:44:53 And people don't have--
00:44:55 Whether I agree with them or not, I love that people just want to point at Kaitlin Clark
00:44:59 and say fraud.
00:45:01 Because for the longest time you couldn't just do that.
00:45:04 Correct.
00:45:05 You can't tear down--
00:45:06 It's the same thing last night.
00:45:08 They talked about on Inside the NBA, Charles Barkley--
00:45:11 This isn't ESPN where, "Hey, we're going to lead off with WNBA highlights.
00:45:15 We're going to do this."
00:45:16 This is Charles Barkley last night choosing to talk about the petty women in the WNBA
00:45:21 and going on a rant.
00:45:22 And you can have whatever side you want.
00:45:24 There's some people that are like, "How could he say that about women?"
00:45:27 He's talking about it.
00:45:29 That's a good thing.
00:45:30 Exactly.
00:45:31 All right, I think we're good.
00:45:32 That was good.
00:45:33 We've got to get the Fever win.
00:45:34 We've got to figure out--
00:45:36 We've got to get the Pacers a win.
00:45:38 We've got to get the Indy 500 a win.
00:45:39 I'm about to talk to Spider about racing.
00:45:41 It's a big weekend in racing.
00:45:42 I'm so excited to have Spider here to talk about it.
00:45:44 But, yeah, it went from last week--
00:45:48 Last week it was setting up to be an all-time--
00:45:51 all-time time--
00:45:53 I don't know if you can say "time" time like that--
00:45:56 to be an Indy sports fan.
00:45:58 We've got Kaitlin Clark starting her WNBA career.
00:46:00 We've got the Pacers in the Eastern Conference Finals.
00:46:02 We've got the Indy 500.
00:46:03 Now the Fever can't win a game.
00:46:04 The Pacers are choking game one.
00:46:06 But we still got the 500.
00:46:08 Don't, though.
00:46:09 There's weather issues.
00:46:11 Is that true?
00:46:12 Yeah, there's rain in the forecast state.
00:46:13 So I'm going to talk to Spider about it.
00:46:15 We're going to talk to Spider about it.
00:46:16 But we need some good vibes, and hopefully Spider can bring it.
00:46:19 Let's talk to him.
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00:47:33 Here's Spider.
00:47:35 All right, Spider is here.
00:47:37 We did this last year on the show.
00:47:39 Heading into Memorial Day weekend.
00:47:41 Sunday is the biggest day in racing, no matter what discipline of racing you're into.
00:47:44 If you're a Formula 1 person, they've got Monaco.
00:47:46 If you're an IndyCar person, it's the Indy 500.
00:47:48 If you're a NASCAR person, the Coca-Cola 600, which is not--
00:47:51 Obviously, the Daytona 500 is the biggest.
00:47:53 Coca-Cola 600, though, is the longest, certainly.
00:47:55 It's the longest, and it's probably one of the most prestigious wins
00:47:58 you could have in your--
00:48:00 It's like top five on the circuit, right?
00:48:02 It's a huge deal.
00:48:04 We did this last year. I had so much fun, dude.
00:48:06 As I thought back on my first year at Barstool,
00:48:08 that was one of the shows I just kept coming back to,
00:48:11 where I was like, "I love just talking racing with Spider."
00:48:14 I love it. That's very flattering, Titus, as do I.
00:48:16 That was a great show, and it's very rare.
00:48:19 Luckily, check out Rubbin' is Racing, where Large and I talk NASCAR once a week,
00:48:22 but that's really the only time I do talk racing.
00:48:25 A lot of times, I'm longing for someone in my life--
00:48:28 Someone else to--
00:48:30 We both have niche interests.
00:48:32 I'm the same way with college basketball,
00:48:34 where suddenly someone at this company shows an interest in college basketball
00:48:37 that I didn't think really cared that much.
00:48:39 I'm like, "Oh, this is awesome."
00:48:41 I got another guy.
00:48:43 Last year was a ton of fun, and last year, I remember
00:48:47 specifically talking to you at length about the double duty,
00:48:51 the idea on Sunday of a driver driving in the Indianapolis 500,
00:48:58 getting in a helicopter,
00:49:00 flying in the helicopter to the airport to then get on a private plane
00:49:03 to go to North Carolina to then get in a helicopter
00:49:06 and go to the NASCAR race and do the Coca-Cola 600.
00:49:08 It was something that I remember happening--
00:49:10 I wouldn't say a lot in my youth,
00:49:12 but it was familiar to me because Johnny Andretti did it, I think, in '94.
00:49:17 I think he was the first one to ever do it in the same day
00:49:20 because they used to run them--
00:49:22 You used to be able to do both races, and they weren't on the same day,
00:49:25 so guys would do both, but in '94,
00:49:27 he was the first one who was like, "I'm going to do both on one day."
00:49:30 Then Tony Stewart did it in the late '90s.
00:49:32 I think he did it in the early 2000s.
00:49:34 Robbie Gordon was doing it.
00:49:35 Kurt Busch did it one year.
00:49:36 So it's something that's kind of been familiar,
00:49:38 but it's been 10 years since someone did it.
00:49:40 I remember last year, you were like, "I'm excited for next year,"
00:49:43 which is now here.
00:49:44 Yep.
00:49:45 Kyle Larson running in the Indianapolis 500
00:49:48 and running in the Coca-Cola 600.
00:49:50 Now, I want to spend a lot of time talking about this
00:49:53 because I think you'll agree with me.
00:49:55 This is kind of fucking insane that a guy is doing this.
00:49:58 It's completely insane.
00:50:00 It's kind of insane that he's doing this.
00:50:02 He's arguably the best NASCAR driver,
00:50:04 and he's already kind of got that figured out,
00:50:06 and then he's like, "You know what? Let me add something else onto my plate."
00:50:09 Especially, it seems like it's going to be kind of challenging for him
00:50:14 to get between these places,
00:50:16 especially with rain and maybe presidential candidates
00:50:19 on the attendance list.
00:50:21 It could be a headache for him to get there.
00:50:23 Him being the best NASCAR driver, I think, is why it stands out to me so much.
00:50:26 Tony Stewart was really good.
00:50:28 Tony Stewart's one of those guys, and Larson's certainly that way.
00:50:31 A lot of the best drivers are that way,
00:50:34 where you could just--
00:50:36 If it has four wheels and a motor, they can drive it.
00:50:38 They can figure out anything.
00:50:40 But I don't think--
00:50:42 My memory might be wrong,
00:50:44 but I don't think Tony Stewart was on that level
00:50:46 when he tried to pull the double.
00:50:48 Now, he did have good results, and he was a hell of a driver.
00:50:51 Kyle Larson--and again, correct me if I'm wrong--
00:50:53 he's like the guy at NASCAR.
00:50:55 He's the guy.
00:50:57 He's in his prime right now.
00:50:59 Granted, it's been a year since he's won his championship,
00:51:01 but he's--two years, excuse me--
00:51:03 but he's one of the best drivers year after year.
00:51:05 Kyle Larson is probably the class of the field.
00:51:08 Granted, he has great equipment in the Hendrick Motorsports team.
00:51:11 He's in one of the best cars in NASCAR.
00:51:13 But I think in terms of raw talent, he is at the top of the list, too,
00:51:17 evident by him going and racing in all these different series,
00:51:20 whether it be sprint car or dirt racing, whatever it is.
00:51:23 And now the most recent challenge is IndyCar, which is insane.
00:51:28 He looks so fast and qualifying.
00:51:30 And back to the whole NASCAR fan in me,
00:51:34 if you could tell me, "Pick one guy from NASCAR Cup Series to do double duty,"
00:51:38 it would probably be Kyle Larson definitively,
00:51:41 like nine times out of ten.
00:51:43 So I think this is a dream come true for race fans this weekend.
00:51:46 Obviously, year after year, this is always one of the best days in motorsports,
00:51:50 but I think there's an extra layer this year for why it's going to be special.
00:51:53 I'd have to think back on the Tony Stewart.
00:51:57 When did he--I should have looked this up before the show--
00:52:00 he did it in 2001, I want to say.
00:52:03 I think he did it in '01.
00:52:06 And I think he had success in both of them.
00:52:09 But I don't remember having the belief--
00:52:13 maybe we did at one point.
00:52:15 But anyway, even if that's true, even if the one year Tony Stewart did it,
00:52:18 I thought this, it's been a long time.
00:52:21 It's been over 20 years since I have gone into this Sunday
00:52:24 believing that one of the guys pulling the double duty could actually--
00:52:27 I could envision him winning both.
00:52:30 I absolutely can.
00:52:31 So can the sportsbooks.
00:52:33 If you look on draft teams right now, he's plus 700 to win the Indy 500,
00:52:37 and he's plus 450 to win the Coke 600.
00:52:40 And that's why I think I'm so excited,
00:52:42 because this isn't like a novelty thing.
00:52:46 Fernando Alonso is a Formula 1 guy,
00:52:49 and every so often the Indy 500--Jimmy Johnson ran an Indy 500.
00:52:53 Fernando Alonso is a great Formula 1 driver.
00:52:55 He tried the Indy 500.
00:52:56 He had one good run.
00:52:57 I think his engine blew out.
00:52:58 The other times he wasn't really much of a factor.
00:53:02 There was a little bit of hype for those guys,
00:53:04 and it was like, let's see how good they can be.
00:53:06 I think Kyle Larson, number one, he is running another race that night,
00:53:10 so that makes it super interesting.
00:53:11 But number two, he is a guy from a different discipline stepping in,
00:53:14 and there is a very, very sincere belief that he can win this.
00:53:18 The Indy 500 I'm talking about, of course he can win the Coca-Cola 600.
00:53:21 That wouldn't be a shock at all.
00:53:23 But for him to qualify fifth, to be as fast as he was and qualify--
00:53:27 I watched his whole qualifying, and he was like a natural.
00:53:31 He wouldn't believe that that was his first time getting behind an Indy car.
00:53:35 I'm so fired up about it.
00:53:36 It's going to be really hard for me to not cheer for him,
00:53:38 especially when--I know you're the NASCAR guy,
00:53:40 so I don't know how much you know about what's going on in Indy car right now.
00:53:43 I heard there's a lot of drama with Team Penske.
00:53:45 Team Penske.
00:53:46 So they were using basically what I understand as DRS,
00:53:49 essentially on a track where you're not allowed to?
00:53:52 Yeah, they're basically--you can only use it under certain circumstances,
00:53:55 and they had their cars programmed to just basically--
00:53:58 it was the push to pass is what they call it.
00:54:00 Push to pass, that's what it was.
00:54:02 You only get so much push to pass in a race,
00:54:05 and their cars had unlimited push to pass.
00:54:07 And when they got caught, there's a big-time crossing of wires
00:54:10 of like, "We didn't know," and other guys on the team--
00:54:13 I saw the statement, and they were like--
00:54:15 yeah, they pretty much admitted guilt, but were like--
00:54:18 they rode the middle as much as you could.
00:54:20 Joseph Newgarden, who won the Indy 500 last year,
00:54:23 starting third this year,
00:54:25 he said that he was pushing the button out of habit,
00:54:28 and he was like, "I just kept pushing. It kept working.
00:54:31 I couldn't believe it. It was cool."
00:54:32 He's like, "I didn't know. I was just pushing."
00:54:34 Will Power, who was also on Team Penske,
00:54:36 starting second in this year's Indy 500,
00:54:38 he said that he did not put--
00:54:41 and I guess they have the data to prove it--
00:54:43 he did not partake in the--
00:54:45 he was only pushing it when he was allowed to push it,
00:54:47 which kind of undermines the other guy's argument,
00:54:50 because it's like, if he knew better,
00:54:52 then why didn't you know better?
00:54:54 It should have been consistent across the team.
00:54:56 So they have that going on, but--
00:54:58 so in qualifying, for only the second time
00:55:02 in the history of the race, the top--
00:55:04 the Indy 500 is rows of three for qualifying.
00:55:07 The entire first row is all Team Penske.
00:55:10 And Roger Penske owns the track, owns the series,
00:55:13 and owns the team that is starting at the top three,
00:55:15 and earlier this year was caught cheating.
00:55:17 Yeah. Is that why a lot of people are saying
00:55:19 that Indy cars should be sold?
00:55:22 - Yeah. It's a conflict of interest. - It's a pretty obvious conflict of interest.
00:55:26 Yeah. I mean, honestly, as a NASCAR guy,
00:55:29 I wouldn't mind seeing NASCAR come in
00:55:31 and add that to their portfolio.
00:55:33 But, yeah, I mean, a lot to be excited for this weekend.
00:55:36 Even F1. I'm not much of an F1 guy,
00:55:39 but if there's one race that I think is, you know, ideal
00:55:43 and that I want to check out, it's Monaco.
00:55:46 I love the visuals of Monaco. Nothing else.
00:55:48 - Same. - That looks awesome.
00:55:49 - Same. - Yeah.
00:55:50 The race itself isn't the best, but I'll go back--
00:55:53 I'll watch Monaco this later in the week.
00:55:57 Like, on Wednesday, I might pull up on the DVR
00:55:59 and watch the actual race, and every time I do,
00:56:01 I'm like, "Yeah, the race kind of sucked."
00:56:03 - Yeah. - But the visual's cool.
00:56:04 It's like an appetizer at a steakhouse.
00:56:06 It's like, "You know there's better food coming.
00:56:08 "Just deal with F1 for now.
00:56:10 "The good racing's coming."
00:56:12 So the double is in jeopardy this year.
00:56:14 That's part of the discussions going into the weekend
00:56:18 is we all are very fired up to see Kyle Larson.
00:56:21 I am on the record as-- I'm cheering for Kyle Larson in the E500
00:56:24 because that's the reason I brought up the Penske thing, too,
00:56:27 is I think there's this-- there's an obvious villain
00:56:30 and hero-type story where it's like,
00:56:32 if it's not Kyle Larson, maybe it's Alexander Rossi,
00:56:34 maybe it's your guy--
00:56:36 Santino Ferrucci. I'm behind big time this year,
00:56:39 as I was last year.
00:56:40 He's an Italian kid from Connecticut, Azamai,
00:56:43 and he's a big-time racer.
00:56:45 - Yeah. - I think he finished third last year.
00:56:47 Yeah, he ran really well last year.
00:56:49 - What's he qualified? He qualified sixth. - Sixth, yeah.
00:56:51 So I have a hard time understanding
00:56:53 why he's 18-1 right now on DraftKings,
00:56:55 but I'm gonna check that out personally for myself
00:56:58 and see what that's all about.
00:57:00 I think there's a feeling that Penske's gonna dominate.
00:57:03 It's gonna be a Penske parade at Roger Penske's track?
00:57:06 But, um, yeah, but the feeling of the race
00:57:11 is setting up to where it's like, I think most of the people at the track,
00:57:14 unless you're just a Team Penske person,
00:57:16 you're obviously cheering for someone else,
00:57:18 and why not Kyle Larson?
00:57:20 So if Kyle Larson could hang around during the race
00:57:23 and he's in top five, like, running top five,
00:57:26 that place would go fucking bonkers if he takes the lead.
00:57:28 - Yeah. - I mean, the eruption,
00:57:30 if he ever leads a lap in this race, is gonna be crazy.
00:57:32 I remember watching a couple years back,
00:57:34 and Connor Daly took the lead,
00:57:36 - and all of Indiana was on its feet. - Yeah, that was awesome.
00:57:38 Which is great. Connor Daly, I'm a fan of his as well.
00:57:41 But I can't imagine what it would be like for Larson.
00:57:44 Like, you're right.
00:57:46 I think we have the potential to watch
00:57:48 some of the craziest history ever this weekend.
00:57:50 The problem, though, Spider, is there might be rain in the forecast,
00:57:53 and, uh, so what could happen is if--
00:57:58 the way it stands right now,
00:58:00 Kyle Larson basically has--
00:58:02 it's down to-- it's like a surgical procedure
00:58:05 - of how quickly he has to-- - Yep.
00:58:07 has to get into the private jet
00:58:09 to then get to North Carolina in time and everything.
00:58:11 There's rain in the forecast
00:58:13 that might bump the start of the Indy 500 back.
00:58:15 Like, even if it's, like, a half an hour,
00:58:17 that jeopardizes the start of the Coca-Cola 600.
00:58:22 And I'm worried that he's gonna have to make a decision.
00:58:25 Yeah, so that's a good question.
00:58:28 And then it's like, what decision do you make?
00:58:30 'Cause you're already-- you're a NASCAR guy,
00:58:32 so you have to go to the NASCAR race.
00:58:34 But then on the other hand, it's like,
00:58:36 you went to these great lengths for the Indy 500.
00:58:39 This was, like, your one opportunity to do the Indy 500.
00:58:41 - You may never get that chance again. - You may never get the chance again.
00:58:44 Do you wait for the delay and do the Indy 500?
00:58:46 I don't know what he's gonna choose to do.
00:58:48 I don't know what the right answer is.
00:58:50 There are discussions-- the people are so excited
00:58:52 about Kyle Larson doing the double that there are discussions--
00:58:55 I don't think they're gonna do anything about it,
00:58:57 but IMS is being asked already, like,
00:59:00 "Have you guys considered moving up the start
00:59:03 - to accommodate Kyle Larson, basically?" - Right.
00:59:05 And they shouldn't. Like, rightfully, they're like--
00:59:08 - Well, did you see what-- - Like, we're excited, but, like--
00:59:10 You saw what happened in NASCAR this past weekend.
00:59:12 - No, what happened? - It was the All-Star race
00:59:14 at North Wilkesboro, and Kyle Larson was flying in from Indy.
00:59:18 - Right, yeah, from qualifying. - And the race was meant to start
00:59:20 at 8.15 Eastern time, and NASCAR said,
00:59:23 "You know what? We're gonna push it back 15 minutes,"
00:59:25 and started at 8.30.
00:59:27 Now, I'm personally pro-NASCAR for doing this.
00:59:31 I appreciate them letting their drivers do something cool like double duty,
00:59:35 'cause I think that funnels in a whole new audience,
00:59:37 which is exactly what NASCAR needs, so good on them
00:59:39 for moving the race 15 minutes.
00:59:41 I know that was controversial.
00:59:43 But I don't know that they can do that this week, Titus.
00:59:45 - I know. - Because the Coke 600's
00:59:48 the longest NASCAR race to begin with.
00:59:50 That thing's starting at 6 p.m. It might not be over till 11 p.m.
00:59:53 - Right. - Can-- And these TV networks,
00:59:56 especially with NASCAR coverage, not knocking them.
00:59:58 I understand they have tight broadcasting boxes they're into,
01:00:01 but they're already rushing off the air as is.
01:00:03 Who's to say they can delay the race 15 minutes
01:00:06 to get Larson there again this week?
01:00:09 I am highly concerned with the weather
01:00:11 and even everything else going on,
01:00:14 so hopefully it all works out for us.
01:00:17 But I think Larson has been on the record saying
01:00:20 that his main priority is winning another NASCAR Cup Series championship,
01:00:23 which ultimately, I think like you said,
01:00:26 if there's a decision to be made, I think unfortunately
01:00:28 it might be at the expense of the Indy 500.
01:00:31 So in the past, I think it was Robbie Gordon, if memory--
01:00:35 I really should have-- I had too much confidence in my memory.
01:00:39 - Yeah. - I should have touched up on this
01:00:41 a little bit before. - I think it was Robbie Gordon
01:00:44 in the past, there was rain.
01:00:47 Robbie Gordon had a handful of times he tried to build double duty
01:00:50 and there was rain, I remember.
01:00:52 And then he had that dilemma too.
01:00:54 And in the past, on at least one occasion,
01:00:57 there was rain that stopped the race.
01:00:59 Like they ran, say, 50 laps.
01:01:01 They have to stop the Indy 500, let the rain pass,
01:01:03 and then we'll dry the track and start it up.
01:01:05 Robbie Gordon was like, "Well, if I stick around,
01:01:07 "I'm not going to be able to make the NASCAR race, so I'm out of here."
01:01:10 And then the replacement driver raced the rest of the Indy 500.
01:01:13 They don't allow that anymore.
01:01:15 So if--
01:01:18 So the part of--
01:01:21 The people that believe Kyle Larson might pick the Indy 500
01:01:25 are believing that because Tony Kanaan has apparently been,
01:01:29 like, I don't know what the term would be, reserved?
01:01:32 - He's preparing to be-- - He's preparing to be the guy--
01:01:36 - The last minute sub. - Yeah, the last minute sub.
01:01:39 They, in the last couple days, have pulled Tony Kanaan from that role,
01:01:43 and they've said, like, "Never mind Tony Kanaan. We don't need you for that."
01:01:46 - Interesting. I didn't know that. - So some people are reading the tea leaves of that
01:01:49 and saying that means Larson is committed to the Indy 500,
01:01:52 and if he can make the NASCAR one, he'll go to the NASCAR one.
01:01:54 But to your point, like, the guy is a full-time NASCAR driver trying to win another cup.
01:01:57 Yeah, he could have just been saying that to save face, though,
01:02:00 especially with the Tony Kanaan thing, which is highly interesting.
01:02:03 I do want to say quick, on the NASCAR side, in Kyle Larson's absence,
01:02:07 he's had Kevin Harvick, who retired at the end of last year,
01:02:10 filling in for him with qualifying and practice sessions,
01:02:13 which is really fucking cool.
01:02:15 So to see two legends in their respective disciplines,
01:02:18 each coming in to fill in Tony Kanaan, who I love as an IndyCar guy,
01:02:23 and then Kevin Harvick, who we unfortunately lost to retirement this past year,
01:02:28 coming back to fill in for these guys has been a treat in itself.
01:02:31 I'm so excited, man. I love that this happens,
01:02:35 and I love that both of them work well together.
01:02:39 NASCAR does seem excited about letting Kyle Larson do this.
01:02:43 Absolutely.
01:02:44 IndyCar, the track is buzzing because Indy 500 has an elevated sense of importance
01:02:50 when something like this is going on.
01:02:52 And the same way it did with Fernando Alonso.
01:02:54 I remember when he was racing, when you bring the F1 guys,
01:02:57 I mentioned Jimmy Johnson earlier.
01:02:59 Having him involved, it just lifts everything,
01:03:02 and that's the coolest thing to me, is racing, bringing everybody together
01:03:06 instead of siloing everybody.
01:03:08 Absolutely.
01:03:09 So yeah, I hope it all works out.
01:03:12 The Coca-Cola 600 will be-- give me a preview of that.
01:03:15 Like, what are we-- who's racing well right now?
01:03:18 Is it Kyle Larson's top of the table?
01:03:21 So Hendrick and Joe Gibbs have pretty much been dominant,
01:03:25 as usual, this year.
01:03:28 They've won, I think, eight races between them.
01:03:31 If not more.
01:03:33 So definitely those are the cars you want to watch out for.
01:03:36 Kyle Larson, of course, depending on his travel, of course.
01:03:41 Chase Elliott's his teammate.
01:03:43 And then William Byron, a guy that I'm a big fan of this year,
01:03:46 is probably a pretty good pick as well.
01:03:48 He's in the 24, right?
01:03:49 He's in the 24 as a Jeff Gordon guy.
01:03:51 Mark's got the Rainbow Warrior drip on.
01:03:53 He's been one of my favorite drivers this year.
01:03:55 I have a championship future on him,
01:03:57 and he seems to show up at all sorts of different tracks,
01:04:00 whether it be plate racing or road courses or whatever.
01:04:04 Any given week, William Byron's a good pick.
01:04:06 And then on the other side of that, the Toyota,
01:04:08 the Joe Gibbs racing guys.
01:04:10 Denny Hamlin's the second favorite to win the race right now, I think.
01:04:15 And the Toyotas always look strong.
01:04:18 Martin Truex is a guy that's a solid veteran, probably a good pick.
01:04:22 And then also the team that Denny Hamlin owns, 23-11,
01:04:25 Tyler Reddick is another guy to watch for this race
01:04:28 who has got to win so far this year, and he's been looking good.
01:04:32 And team owner Michael Jordan and Denny Hamlin
01:04:35 have been putting a lot of effort into their team recently.
01:04:39 In fact, this week their new team shop,
01:04:42 which Michael Jordan and Denny Hamlin personally designed,
01:04:46 is opening in Charlotte.
01:04:47 I'm hoping to get down there this week.
01:04:49 That's cool.
01:04:50 The team 23-11 is Michael Jordan, 23, Denny Hamlin, 11.
01:04:55 The windows on the building are at a 23-degree angle,
01:04:59 and they have custom merch that they're only selling at the shop.
01:05:03 And the bathroom has elephant print that you would find on Jordan's
01:05:08 on the wallpaper.
01:05:09 Everything looks really cool.
01:05:11 So I've been really bullish on what MJ and Denny have created with 23-11
01:05:16 and what they're bringing to the sport.
01:05:18 I think that probably plays into--of course it does.
01:05:21 I'm just an idiot connecting dots.
01:05:23 The Cogole 600 is elevated by being in Charlotte,
01:05:26 which is like the hub of NASCAR.
01:05:30 That's where the Hall of Fame is.
01:05:31 That's where all these teams are based.
01:05:33 And the same can certainly be said about--I mean, the league is literally
01:05:37 called IndyCar.
01:05:39 So, of course, 3500 is the biggest race in IndyCar.
01:05:44 Yeah, I don't know.
01:05:45 Larson pulling off the double would be the coolest thing.
01:05:48 If he wins both--
01:05:50 That would be--
01:05:51 If he wins both, which I get--it's like a pipe dream.
01:05:54 Let's just finish both.
01:05:57 But if he wins both, that would be one of the coolest athletic things
01:06:01 I've ever seen in my life.
01:06:02 Maybe the coolest.
01:06:03 We had Dale Jr. on last week on Rubbin' His Race,
01:06:06 and I asked him what are reasonable expectations for Kyle Larson.
01:06:09 And he said just finishing the race in itself is an accomplishment,
01:06:13 but something along the lines of a top ten in both would be incredible.
01:06:17 I think I'm going to take Kyle Larson for a top five in the Indy 500.
01:06:22 And like I said, I have a little sprinkle on Santino Ferrucci.
01:06:25 Who do you like to win the race?
01:06:27 Obviously, we're going to both win the point for Larson,
01:06:29 but are there other guys that you're maybe long-term fans of?
01:06:32 I have to put all my chips on Larson from a fan perspective
01:06:38 because I go into every race cheering for the Hoosiers.
01:06:41 This is my number one sports list wish list.
01:06:46 My number one sports wish list, if that makes sense,
01:06:49 of things I would love--if I rub the bottle and a genie popped out
01:06:54 and was like, "I can give you anything in the sports world to have happen,
01:06:57 what do you want?"
01:06:58 My first thing would be I want to see a Hoosier win the Indy 500.
01:07:00 It has not happened since the '40s.
01:07:03 I was not alive for that, obviously, so that would be the coolest fucking thing,
01:07:06 which is why when Connor Daly took the lead, the place was going crazy.
01:07:09 We want to see a guy from Indiana win the thing.
01:07:12 It's never happened in my lifetime.
01:07:15 So I always cheer for Ed Carpenter and Connor Daly for that reason.
01:07:18 It's something I badly, badly want to see.
01:07:21 They're not doing so hot this year.
01:07:23 It doesn't feel like they're going to have the cars.
01:07:25 I saw the odds there.
01:07:26 You've got to scroll a long way down.
01:07:27 Ed Carpenter, both of them have been in positions where it feels plausible.
01:07:31 It doesn't feel plausible this year.
01:07:33 Then on top of that, you have a guy like Scott Dixon,
01:07:37 who's a legend of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway,
01:07:41 but has only won one race somehow, which is staggering.
01:07:44 He's like a--it feels like he should have four or five wins by now.
01:07:50 I cheer for him a lot because I do think that he deserves to--
01:07:53 he always has something fucked up.
01:07:55 I don't think he's in a great position like he usually is.
01:07:57 He's usually on the front row, and I don't think he has a great car this year.
01:08:01 How about my guy Helio Castroneves?
01:08:04 Yeah, you can never count him out.
01:08:07 But it feels like--the guys I usually cheer for are having a down year,
01:08:10 while at the same time Penske is building this death star of cheating
01:08:15 and also having fast cars.
01:08:18 I'm kind of bummed out by that part of it all,
01:08:21 where it just feels a little inevitable that it's going to be Penske,
01:08:23 which is why I hope Kyle Larson or Alexander Rossi.
01:08:26 Those seem to be the two guys.
01:08:27 I'll cheer for the second row, basically.
01:08:29 I like that.
01:08:30 Rossi, Ferrucci, and Kyle Larson.
01:08:32 Yeah, I got Larson and Ferrucci.
01:08:34 I think they have the best chance.
01:08:37 I don't know. Indy 500 is crazy because it is--
01:08:40 if you watch qualifying, the guys in the top three were so much faster,
01:08:44 which is only like one mile an hour,
01:08:46 but in racing that over 500 miles, that's way faster.
01:08:51 But it felt like there was a pretty sizable gap.
01:08:55 But at the same time, the way that race works is like
01:08:58 the best car doesn't always win.
01:09:00 The best driver doesn't always win.
01:09:01 You just have to be good enough to be in the mix.
01:09:03 And then they always say about the Indy 500, the track picks the winner.
01:09:07 And then the last 10 laps, just crazy shit happens.
01:09:10 It's not always crashes. Sometimes its engines go out.
01:09:12 Sometimes it's--
01:09:13 Sometimes it's the tire flying into the fucking grandstand,
01:09:16 which hopefully doesn't happen this year.
01:09:18 Sometimes guys are pushing it with their pit strategy,
01:09:21 and they're staying out on old tires, and they get a little loose,
01:09:24 and they're hitting walls.
01:09:26 It's just crazy shit happens, and it's not always like--
01:09:29 it's not like a Formula 1 deal where it's like within 10 laps,
01:09:32 you can tell that this guy's got the right car.
01:09:34 This guy is--he's just going to run away with it.
01:09:37 So yeah, maybe--I like Ferrucci.
01:09:39 Hell yeah. I love that pick.
01:09:41 I like Larsson. I like Rossi.
01:09:42 How many Indy 500s do you think you've been to?
01:09:45 Do you know the number?
01:09:46 It's over 20.
01:09:49 I would guess somewhere like 20, 25-ish probably.
01:09:54 I'm 36.
01:09:56 I haven't been to all of them in my lifetime.
01:09:58 That's pretty good retention, right?
01:09:59 36 years old, you've probably been--you've maybe missed like 10 tops.
01:10:03 I used to--because when I was a kid, we would go--we didn't go to all of them,
01:10:08 but we would go--yeah, if my dad got free tickets, somehow we would go.
01:10:14 I'm trying to remember that, but since I've been an adult,
01:10:16 since I've controlled it, you know, like since I've been like 16 years old,
01:10:20 basically, and I've had the ability to go on my own,
01:10:22 I've gone to just about everyone.
01:10:24 I've got to get back there.
01:10:25 I went one year for a qualifying session with Dave when we were doing--
01:10:29 Oh, yeah.
01:10:30 --the Barstool 500 party in Indiana, which was awesome.
01:10:33 Yeah.
01:10:34 But I didn't really get the full Indy car experience, so I've got to get back there.
01:10:37 Oh, you'd be a legend there.
01:10:38 Yeah, we should check it out.
01:10:39 The people of Indy would love you.
01:10:41 Yeah, it seems--it's a beautiful facility.
01:10:43 The Pagoda is incredible.
01:10:44 You would love it.
01:10:45 I love the fact there's a golf course in the infield.
01:10:47 Let's go to the NASCAR races there.
01:10:49 I would love to.
01:10:50 Do they still do two or do they just do the one?
01:10:51 They're doing one.
01:10:52 Do they do the oval? No, they got rid of that.
01:10:54 I think the oval might be back this year.
01:10:56 I think the oval might be back.
01:10:58 I would 100% go with you to that.
01:10:59 They should definitely bring it back if not.
01:11:02 But, yeah, Indy is one of the most beautiful racing facilities.
01:11:06 How are we going to pull it off?
01:11:07 How are we going to do the double?
01:11:08 You've been--
01:11:09 Well, I looked it up.
01:11:10 --toying with the idea.
01:11:11 I priced it out.
01:11:13 So I've got a couple quotes for private jets if you looked it up on a one-way ticket.
01:11:18 So theoretically, we'd have to drive to Indiana.
01:11:20 But if we were to get there, we could fly from Indiana to Concord, North Carolina for, like, 10 bands, which, hear me out.
01:11:29 Okay.
01:11:30 Eight people on that plane.
01:11:32 What if I just found, like, you know, me, you, and, like, six other of the biggest race fans I could find?
01:11:38 And then we split that.
01:11:39 I would pay $1,200 to get to--
01:11:42 Dude, we should--
01:11:43 --for double duty on a private jet.
01:11:45 We could sell this.
01:11:46 That's what I'm saying.
01:11:47 Or we could--
01:11:48 We could sell this, dude.
01:11:49 We could do a contest giveaway thing.
01:11:51 Yeah, so if there's any last-minute sponsors--
01:11:53 Like, Stoolies could-- we could give a giveaway where it's-- yeah, you get some sort of fucking raffle where we raise money as a company for something.
01:12:01 I tried to get this in motion, but unfortunately, I couldn't really--
01:12:04 We didn't have enough time.
01:12:05 --iron it out, yeah.
01:12:06 Next year, maybe.
01:12:07 Yeah, we need some-- we need Larson to run back-- you know what?
01:12:09 God forbid he can't do double duty this year.
01:12:12 I'm hoping he can.
01:12:13 We'll run it back next year.
01:12:14 But if he can't, then we will make this come to a short connection.
01:12:16 Do you think, like, so if he has-- do you think success, failure, anything, I guess-- is there-- does Kyle Larson doing this this year have any bearing on other guys doing this in the future, do we think?
01:12:29 I think it will-- I think it will just keep the inspiration there for people who want to do this in the future.
01:12:35 I would think so, too.
01:12:36 Because think of it.
01:12:37 It's been, what, 10 years since--
01:12:39 10 years, yeah.
01:12:40 And it was Tony Stewart?
01:12:42 Bush.
01:12:43 Kurt Bush, excuse me.
01:12:45 So, yeah, it's like, to me, what happens if it weren't Larson?
01:12:49 If it's not Larson this week, I don't know who else from NASCAR does this.
01:12:52 I know there's been some discussion about Kyle Bush wanting to do it.
01:12:55 But even to Titus's point earlier, Kyle Bush is a shell of his former self.
01:13:00 I feel like the time for him to do it was 5, 10 years ago.
01:13:04 Right.
01:13:05 Not right now, as much as that pains me as a Kyle Bush fan to say.
01:13:09 But I can't think of another guy in NASCAR that would be as much of a threat in both of these.
01:13:17 I was always so sad Jeff Gordon never tried it.
01:13:19 I bet he's sad, too.
01:13:21 Gordon's been at the-- he's working with Hendrick and everything, so he's been at an Indy--
01:13:25 Well, he's on the chopper flying to and from, which I also thought was funny.
01:13:29 Someone on Twitter pointed this out.
01:13:31 Larson got in the chopper wearing his IndyCar fire suit with Jeff Gordon.
01:13:37 And he got out of it wearing his NASCAR Cup Series fire suit with Jeff Gordon.
01:13:42 So at some point, the chopper became a changing room.
01:13:46 Jeff Gordon saw Kyle Larson's dick.
01:13:48 That's what you're saying.
01:13:49 Absolutely.
01:13:50 At some point, he was hanging trout.
01:13:52 He saw it.
01:13:53 He was dumping Don in the chopper.
01:13:54 He was dumping Don in the chopper.
01:13:58 Okay, I have a question for you, Titus.
01:14:00 If there's a guy that's predominantly-- their first discipline is IndyCar driver--
01:14:05 that you'd like to see race-- do double duty and wheel a NASCAR Cup Series car--
01:14:10 A NASCAR.
01:14:11 --who are you picking from the field?
01:14:13 Oh, that's a great question.
01:14:17 I just keep going back to Scott Dixon.
01:14:19 Scott Dixon feels like-- Scott Dixon to me is like-- as legend as legend gets,
01:14:25 but he's only won the one race, but he is--
01:14:29 but he might be past his prime too in terms of--
01:14:34 the time for him to do it might have been like five years ago.
01:14:37 But he's been the guy in IndyCar.
01:14:40 To me, he's like a fucking-- he's an absolute legend,
01:14:44 and I would love to see him in other disciplines.
01:14:47 Yeah, because there have been guys that have done--
01:14:50 Juan Pablo Montoya won the E500, and then he got into NASCAR.
01:14:54 Danica, obviously.
01:14:56 That's how Tony Stewart got his start was--
01:14:58 I guess he got his start with sprint cars, but then he made the switch over.
01:15:02 Oh, I got one more pick I got to add.
01:15:04 Yeah, I don't know who I would most--
01:15:09 let's see here.
01:15:10 Paddle Award would be interesting.
01:15:13 I would like to see--
01:15:14 Connor Daly's driven in NASCAR before.
01:15:16 Connor Daly's tried NASCAR.
01:15:17 That could be cool.
01:15:18 Yeah, Colton Hurd is a guy who's been flirting with Formula One for a while,
01:15:22 so I like Colton Hurd a lot, but I also feel like he still has a ton to prove.
01:15:28 I got to see him win more in IndyCar before he starts trying to branch out.
01:15:32 I've become a big Helio Castroneves fan since he's raced in the SRX Series,
01:15:37 which is now defunct, but that was fun to watch the last couple years.
01:15:40 Oh, yeah.
01:15:41 And he was a legend in that series, so I don't know.
01:15:45 I became a fan of him quickly.
01:15:47 Connor Daly feels like he'd be great in NASCAR, just for the culture.
01:15:51 The NASCAR culture.
01:15:52 He would fit in well.
01:15:53 He's a guy that just gets it.
01:15:54 He gets the NASCAR culture for sure.
01:15:56 He's always welcome back in NASCAR.
01:15:58 I love watching him compete with us.
01:16:00 All right, Spider, thanks for doing this, man.
01:16:02 Thank you for having me.
01:16:03 We're fired up.
01:16:04 This is becoming one of my favorite traditions.
01:16:06 Yeah, we've got to do this every year.
01:16:07 I've got to--
01:16:09 I just fucking love it so much, man.
01:16:11 I love the Indy 500.
01:16:12 I love racing.
01:16:14 Even if that's all it is, even if you just come on the show
01:16:16 and we just say we love racing a thousand times,
01:16:19 I want people to get into it.
01:16:21 There's a lot going on.
01:16:22 A lot of people have a lot of Memorial Day weekend plans,
01:16:25 but if you're someone that's home, park your ass on the couch, dude,
01:16:30 and watch racing all day, including Monaco.
01:16:34 We've got to figure out who the Formula 1 person is in the office
01:16:37 and get them into the fold so we can have a true three-way discussion
01:16:41 for the Big 3.
01:16:42 A three-headed dragon.
01:16:43 The Big 3.
01:16:44 Should we try the triple one year?
01:16:46 Go to Monaco?
01:16:47 We need a time machine.
01:16:50 Fly all those supersonic jets to get to Indian time?
01:16:53 Or a spaceship or something.
01:16:55 You said Trump's going to the NASCAR?
01:16:57 Yeah, so Trump is allegedly going to the Coke 600,
01:16:59 which I'm not really sure how that impacts Kyle Larson's travel plans.
01:17:03 Part of me feels like he's attending as a former president.
01:17:08 He's not going to be able to just shut down airspace
01:17:10 like he previously would have.
01:17:12 The other part of me feels like I'm not air traffic control,
01:17:15 so I don't know how that shit works.
01:17:17 Like if Trump and Larson are trying to show up at the same time,
01:17:19 who gets precedence?
01:17:21 Or what if they come in together in arms?
01:17:24 I think Larson gets precedence.
01:17:25 I honestly think pulling double duty is more impressive
01:17:28 than being president of the United States.
01:17:30 If there's a favor to be made, you've got to throw it to Larson.
01:17:34 Yeah, but we'll see.
01:17:37 Awesome.
01:17:38 All right, thanks, Spider.
01:17:39 Thank you very much, Titus.
01:17:40 (whooshing)
01:17:42 [MUSIC]