What we learned about Drake Maye and the Patriots at OTAs | Pats Interference
The Boston Herald's Doug Kyed returns to break down everything he and Andrew saw at the Patriots' first practice of 2024, from Drake Maye to how the offense is taking shape, the receiver rotation, a couple defenders who stood out and more. Later, the guys answer your mailbag questions.
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00:00:00 [MUSIC]
00:00:10 All right, finally we have some football and that comes with a big asterisk.
00:00:17 The asterisk being that it is non padded, not everyone was there.
00:00:21 They ran day one morning, before you get the syllabus kind of stuff.
00:00:28 But you know what, the Patriots were on two separate football fields.
00:00:30 Doug Kite is back here today.
00:00:32 I am sitting here looking like Cyrus Jones in the mirror.
00:00:36 My face is as burnt as it could be because that's what happened with this
00:00:40 Irish skin.
00:00:41 Cyrus looks and says, yeah, that looks familiar.
00:00:43 And look, we're gonna run through everything that happened here today.
00:00:46 We're gonna share our biggest takeaways.
00:00:49 I just wanna start with the most obvious salient point that we can start here.
00:00:55 This is not a big practice for evaluations.
00:00:59 Everything was somewhere between fine lowercase f to fine uppercase f.
00:01:04 But we're gonna do our best to live this episode outside of that range because it's
00:01:07 a very boring range.
00:01:08 And no one wants to hear about, it was basic day one stuff.
00:01:11 Like this was, I don't know, if I was comparing to someone to learn how to
00:01:14 drive because we're gonna talk about a 21 year old Drake May,
00:01:17 learned to play quarterback in the NFL.
00:01:18 This was like backing out of the driveway.
00:01:20 I think he got out of the driveway, is that fair?
00:01:23 >> Yeah, this was as basic fundamentals as humanly possible.
00:01:28 I just got off the field coaching my six year old daughter's softball game and
00:01:33 it was like the first practice of softball.
00:01:37 It literally reminded me of that, of going station to station being like,
00:01:42 all right, can you hit the X on the wall with the ball with the softball?
00:01:47 And that's kind of what the quarterbacks are doing,
00:01:49 throwing into big nets with open holes to throw it through.
00:01:53 Like it was very basic, but I mean, to add a little bit of juice here,
00:01:59 we did get to see potential.
00:02:01 Now first team unit, second team units, there was still something to be gleaned
00:02:05 from this practice, more so than rookie mini camp,
00:02:08 which was pretty similar to this fundamental wise.
00:02:12 But you're like, all right, some tryout wide receiver that we'll never see again
00:02:16 was playing the slot, so that didn't really mean anything.
00:02:19 >> Right, and look, if I can write 2000 words about practice,
00:02:23 there's enough meat on the bone for us to go through.
00:02:25 So this is not to just pee on the start of my own podcast episode.
00:02:28 It's just to say, if you read any serious analysis of this practice, or
00:02:33 hear us tired, sunburned, start to take things too seriously, just shut it off.
00:02:38 Like this is not the time or place for that.
00:02:39 It's Monday, May 20th.
00:02:41 They will not put on pads until the summer.
00:02:44 Doesn't mean we can't learn anything, but
00:02:45 it's not gonna be for one practice, which I will just tell you right off the bat.
00:02:48 This is how it went.
00:02:49 So to take you there to the two fields adjacent to Gillette Stadium,
00:02:54 where again, just about 80 out of the 90 players who are on the roster were there,
00:02:58 ready to participate, did participate.
00:03:00 A couple guys were missing, Matt Judon, Devon Godchild for
00:03:03 what appear to be non-injury reasons, Anfernee Jennings, Josh Ducey, same boat.
00:03:07 Kendrick Bourne was there, Jelani Tavai was there, Cole Strange was there.
00:03:10 They were all in street clothes, hanging out, mental reps, as they say.
00:03:14 But for the guys who were taking the real reps,
00:03:16 they started with the team walkthrough period.
00:03:18 So you separate the starting defense from the starting offense.
00:03:20 They go on separate fields, very slow paced.
00:03:22 You're going through the motions of all these plays, after plays, after plays.
00:03:25 And this is how serious it was at some point.
00:03:27 I don't know if they lacked ball carriers.
00:03:29 I don't know if they just got bored that fast.
00:03:32 But one offensive lineman took off running with the ball.
00:03:35 And then a quarterback was off playing a new position.
00:03:37 And we can't provide too many details in case these are real trick plays.
00:03:41 But that leads into stretching, positional drills, more positional drills,
00:03:45 quarterbacks with the receivers.
00:03:47 Some of the quarterback stuff we'll get to, but
00:03:49 then it goes to special teams, and we're back to positional work.
00:03:51 So the first hour basically is just things that are either at half speed, or
00:03:55 we're all gonna be in smaller groups, and
00:03:57 we're gonna do very, very, very basic things.
00:03:58 Then, Gerard Mayo brings everyone into a big huddle, which we forgot to ask about.
00:04:02 Did anyone share what that was like with you afterward?
00:04:06 >> No, not that I heard of, no.
00:04:08 >> Okay, after that, you have an 11 on 11 period.
00:04:11 Eight reps for Jacoby Brissett, four for Bailey Zappi, three for Drake May.
00:04:15 Then a seven on seven period.
00:04:17 Eight reps for Jacoby Brissett, four for Bailey Zappi, four for Drake May,
00:04:21 four for Joe Milton.
00:04:22 Then they go 11 on 11 on split fields again, half speed.
00:04:26 Jacoby was with Drake May on one side, Bailey Zappi and Joe Milton on the other.
00:04:29 I think that was very intentional.
00:04:30 But again, nothing competitive, and
00:04:32 that's what we're there to learn from is these competitive drills.
00:04:34 And then we wrap up with a two-minute drill in name only.
00:04:38 Half speed, KJ Osborne drops the pass.
00:04:40 Nah, no one really cares, and then sprints.
00:04:43 So that's what we saw.
00:04:45 That's everything that was there.
00:04:46 And Drake May did go third in all of the drills and
00:04:49 all the periods behind Jacoby Brissett and Bailey Zappi.
00:04:53 But I think the more important number is not that he was third out of four.
00:04:56 It's that he took seven reps in those team periods to Bailey Zappi's eight.
00:05:00 So there's not a huge difference if you would just flip those and
00:05:03 say, Drake went second.
00:05:05 Well, they're taking about the same number of reps, and
00:05:07 he also took more pass attempts.
00:05:09 So this is really like a one with Jacoby, and then a 2A and 2B.
00:05:14 And take that wherever you wanna go from there with everything I just laid out.
00:05:17 >> Yeah, I thought the quarterback reps,
00:05:19 how those were divvied out was certainly interesting.
00:05:22 And it was maybe the biggest surprise for me out of OTA's practice today,
00:05:27 because I fully expected Jacoby Brissett to be the QB snap leader,
00:05:33 or however you wanna call that.
00:05:35 But then I did expect Drake May to be the second quarterback
00:05:38 in the line of quarterbacks.
00:05:40 And Bailey Zappi being the number two did surprise me a little bit.
00:05:43 But I mean, I guess this is their way of messaging to the team,
00:05:47 like you have to earn your role.
00:05:51 Bailey Zappi was the backup last year, so
00:05:53 he shouldn't necessarily lose that to a rookie right away.
00:05:57 But I don't know, I almost still probably would have put Drake May as
00:06:02 the second guy, just cuz it's like, we're being realistic here, right?
00:06:07 Like football players, I understand that everything has to be fair, and
00:06:10 you have to earn your role, and you have to compete in all these things.
00:06:13 But let's be realistic, Drake May was the third overall pick.
00:06:17 And Bailey Zappi was so bad last year for the Patriots,
00:06:20 that he couldn't pass Mac Jones on the depth chart until November or December.
00:06:24 So yeah, everything does have to be earned, but I also think that these guys
00:06:29 are smart enough to know that when things matter, Drake May is gonna be there
00:06:33 competing for the starting role, and Bailey Zappi,
00:06:36 given everything that's transpired over the last two years, probably is not.
00:06:40 And I'm also curious now to see when that shifts,
00:06:45 because obviously they want Drake May to earn it.
00:06:47 But they're doing so little right now that there's nothing really that Drake May can
00:06:51 do to earn it, other than take all those solo reps like Gerard Mayo was talking
00:06:56 about, watching film in the Patriots quarterback room.
00:06:59 So I don't know, that's my big question here from now,
00:07:01 it's like, all right, so where does this change?
00:07:03 Like, do you wait for Bailey Zappi to play poorly, and then wait for
00:07:08 Drake May, and then move Drake May up?
00:07:10 Or what happens to get Drake May back above Bailey Zappi from this point?
00:07:15 >> So my only other thought on the ordering the quarterbacks thing,
00:07:17 which I don't know if I'm just getting defensive for
00:07:20 when I expect the onslaught of TV and radio discussions of, my God,
00:07:24 why is Drake May 3rd?
00:07:25 Like, Jane Daniels is a starter.
00:07:27 Caleb Williams is good enough to be the starter in Chicago.
00:07:30 Why is Drake May 3rd?
00:07:32 Again, it's May 16th.
00:07:33 And you can use that to put out a lot of fires of conversations, and
00:07:37 I don't wanna do that, I wanna have real talk here.
00:07:40 But my thought was, and I think I said this to you, if we zoom out and
00:07:44 take the quarterback reps and view them as instead,
00:07:47 holistically as reps for the entire offense.
00:07:49 If the quarterback screws things up, as a rookie tends to do on day one of the job,
00:07:54 that spoils the rep for the rest of the offense.
00:07:56 Meaning he scrambles prematurely, or he throws the ball away.
00:08:01 That does nobody any good.
00:08:03 So at least we'll have a guy, again, going back to the driving analogy.
00:08:06 If you're teaching Drake May stick shift, let's at least have a dude who knows
00:08:10 what gear to put it in to get out of the driveway, and has done it before in
00:08:13 an NFL offense.
00:08:14 Granted, Bailey Zappi's gonna get into a lot of fender benders,
00:08:17 if not fall on crashes.
00:08:19 Before you just hand the keys to the kid and say, let's see if you can do it.
00:08:21 That was my only other thought.
00:08:22 I don't know if you found that persuasive then or now.
00:08:24 >> It's somewhat persuasive.
00:08:27 I still probably would have had Drake May be the second guy.
00:08:31 But that's almost selfishly for me, because I would have liked to have.
00:08:35 We did see, like you said, Drake May as much as Bailey Zappi.
00:08:39 I mean, I will also say that you would hope that a rookie quarterback could do
00:08:43 those basic things that we were talking about and
00:08:45 seeing well enough that you don't have to worry about that.
00:08:48 And hopefully that's not cause for concern for Drake May.
00:08:52 But I mean, the fact that he did take as many reps as he did,
00:08:54 shows that that's not necessarily the case.
00:08:56 But no, I don't know.
00:08:57 Personally, I just thought it was interesting.
00:08:59 And if you take the first team offense, first team defense,
00:09:03 everything as a whole anyway, you're seeing weird guys slotted in there.
00:09:08 Tyquan Thornton was lined up with the first team offense.
00:09:11 So he would be like sixth or seventh on my wide receiver depth chart right now.
00:09:17 The top cornerbacks were kind of all over the place.
00:09:20 So they were kind of mixing and matching guys.
00:09:23 And it didn't necessarily look like a definitive depth chart.
00:09:27 But there were other roles,
00:09:28 there were other positions that it did certainly look like.
00:09:31 All right, if we had to play a game right now, these would be our guys.
00:09:35 And the offensive line was probably one of those that I saw in particular.
00:09:39 >> It was, let's put a bow in Drake May first though,
00:09:40 because the last thing that just came to mind,
00:09:42 when you talk about messaging to the rest of the team is you have to earn it.
00:09:45 This is us showing and telling the kid, we drafted third overall.
00:09:49 You are no exception, at least at the start here,
00:09:52 is there's messaging through the media, right?
00:09:54 They knew we were- >> Right.
00:09:56 >> They set out the invitation that said, please show up, hang out for two hours.
00:09:59 This is what we're gonna do.
00:10:01 And then you're not gonna come back for nine days.
00:10:02 It's very possible that those numbers flip tomorrow when they reconvene for
00:10:06 practice and Drake May is second, where he gets more passing tips.
00:10:10 >> I just personally, I know it's May, I know it's May 20th.
00:10:14 I know it's the first practice, these guys will all play together.
00:10:18 But for me, I want to put Drake May out there as much as humanly possible.
00:10:24 I wanna put Jalen Polak out there as much as humanly possible.
00:10:26 I wanna put Javon Baker out there as much as humanly possible,
00:10:29 because these are among the most talented players on the roster.
00:10:34 And they need to get as many reps as possible to see if they can play in week
00:10:39 one, and you really do only get so many of these spring practices.
00:10:44 Whether like eight or nine OTA sessions, something like that,
00:10:48 three mini camp practices, and then you're done for the spring.
00:10:51 And then you get started on training camp.
00:10:53 So I know it's the first practice and we'll see how things shake out in eight,
00:10:56 nine days, whatever it is when we get out there for our next OTA session.
00:11:00 But personally, I just wanna see those guys take as many reps as humanly
00:11:03 possible.
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00:11:44 [BLANK_AUDIO]
00:11:47 On the quarterbacks too, people love because we put them out there.
00:11:51 And you could not debate endlessly, but
00:11:53 have a lot of conversations about how useful or useless those numbers are.
00:11:57 Jacoby Percet, for example, 9 of 14 out of his 16 reps, and 11 on 11s, and
00:12:01 7 on 7s.
00:12:02 Drake May with 6 of 7, sounds very good.
00:12:04 Billy Zappi, 3 of 5, not as good.
00:12:07 Not also as telling, though I talk about the waste of a particular rep.
00:12:11 Billy Zappi takes off, couldn't find anybody open.
00:12:14 Sometimes it's gonna be the right play.
00:12:15 But in practice, when you know you're not gonna get hit, scrambling,
00:12:18 typically not a great outcome for the offense.
00:12:20 And Joe Milton goes 4 of 4, which cannot be better.
00:12:23 Honing in on Drake May, cuz again, that's what people wanna know.
00:12:25 That's the person we're trying to learn the most about here,
00:12:28 as well as the team over the next few weeks and months.
00:12:31 Ripped a nice out route throw to Javon Baker.
00:12:34 Two sit down routes over the middle, had a curl route on the far side.
00:12:38 I think he had a second out route there,
00:12:40 where you can really tell the arm strength is there.
00:12:42 And then just a check down.
00:12:43 So safe throws, everything within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage.
00:12:47 Again, this is the part where it's like, yes, he was 6 of 7.
00:12:49 6 of 7 is very good.
00:12:51 Not very telling, as far as it goes right now.
00:12:53 And to put that in further context, a lot of the quarterbacks didn't go downfield.
00:12:58 And the one who really did was Jacoby Brissett,
00:13:00 because he had more reps and he has the most experience.
00:13:03 >> And was it Drake May's first throw overall that was behind Kevin Harris?
00:13:09 >> On a screen, yeah.
00:13:10 >> On a screen, so that one was like, all right, get the jitters out.
00:13:14 [LAUGH]
00:13:15 >> It's like hitting the mailbox on the way, or
00:13:17 just brushing by it on the way down the driveway going backwards.
00:13:21 >> Yes, exactly.
00:13:23 But no, he did settle down, which is good to see, because if everything had gone.
00:13:27 But I mean, that wasn't necessarily what he was showing at rookie minicamp either.
00:13:30 He was pretty accurate on those short balls.
00:13:33 So I was like, that seems like kind of an aberration.
00:13:35 And unfortunately for the Patriots, it was on that one throw to Kevin Harris.
00:13:39 >> And you know what too, those throws are the ones that he missed at Carolina.
00:13:42 People who are- >> Right, yeah.
00:13:44 >> Against Drake May were like, he's going to get you fired because he's missing all
00:13:47 of the bunnies in the layups.
00:13:49 And my point was like, okay, great, he'll swing and
00:13:51 miss down the middle every once in a while.
00:13:52 But he's gonna crush that slider low and away, as Olivia did.
00:13:55 We all know at the game today.
00:13:57 >> [LAUGH] >> For a double or a home run,
00:13:59 just the throw that's harder to make that some quarterbacks or
00:14:03 hitters just can't make.
00:14:05 Anything else as far as their performance?
00:14:07 Cuz the only other thing that comes to mind for me, quarterbacks today,
00:14:10 the amount of, I went through all the positional work.
00:14:12 Like the first hour was just stay alone with your position or
00:14:15 maybe throw to the receivers.
00:14:16 There was so much footwork stuff, and he didn't look out of place there.
00:14:21 >> No, no, absolutely, I thought his footwork was quality.
00:14:25 Just as far as quarterbacks go, I mean,
00:14:27 I feel like we'd be remiss not to talk about Joe Milton's arm strength.
00:14:31 >> Yeah.
00:14:32 >> While we're talking about quarterbacks, because Drake May has a strong arm.
00:14:35 He had among the three quarterbacks the Patriots could have taken,
00:14:40 between him, Jaden Daniels, and JJ McCarthy, he had the best arm strength.
00:14:46 And Joe Milton's is on another level, even more so than that, where you
00:14:51 understand when you watch Joe Milton, why the Patriots would wanna take him in
00:14:55 the sixth round.
00:14:56 Cuz it's like, if you can harness that at all,
00:14:59 if you can figure something out with Joe Milton,
00:15:01 then his arm strength is that of a superstar.
00:15:04 He could put the ball anywhere that he possibly wanted to on it, but
00:15:09 he's not accurate enough, and there's other things missing from his game.
00:15:15 But if Alex Van Pelt and TC McCartney and Ben McIndoon, all those guys,
00:15:19 can somehow harness that ability and that arm strength, then there's potentially
00:15:24 something special there, enough to take him to the sixth round,
00:15:27 just to see if he can figure it out.
00:15:28 >> Yeah, if Joe Milton was, if we were drafting on arm talent alone,
00:15:35 Joe Milton goes 1.1 and that's it.
00:15:37 >> Yeah, 100%.
00:15:38 >> Even well ahead of Drake May, there's a gap there that you can see between them,
00:15:41 because that's how much of an alien that Joe Milton is.
00:15:43 So when people complain about why is Billy Zappi taking reps away from
00:15:46 Drake May, why is he taking reps away from Joe Milton,
00:15:48 who's his actual competition for that number three job?
00:15:52 And I would just say patience, right?
00:15:53 Because again, we talk about the footwork drills, and we know, hey,
00:15:55 you didn't look out of place, and that's a good thing.
00:15:58 The footwork, I wanna see second week of training camp,
00:16:01 when the pads are on, the drills are live.
00:16:04 There's a pass rush there, because at that point, like anybody else,
00:16:06 you don't rise to the moment you fall back on your training.
00:16:09 And what the Patriots are trying to do is rewire Drake May specific to those drills
00:16:13 and that footwork, because it wasn't good enough in college in addition to him
00:16:17 missing the bunnies, that's what the detractor said.
00:16:19 And so Joe Milton is not in that same camp, he's gotta speed up,
00:16:23 he's gotta play faster.
00:16:24 But there's no one I would rather watch play catch on that roster, or
00:16:28 maybe in my life, or that I could think of,
00:16:30 than Joe Milton just launching footballs the way that he did today.
00:16:34 >> I also, I felt bad for the training assistants and
00:16:37 like the, you actually had to catch the balls from Joe Milton.
00:16:41 Cuz these aren't even like scouts who are doing this,
00:16:43 these are like staff interns who have to catch these passes.
00:16:47 And their hands are probably burning right now or broken really probably.
00:16:52 >> Yeah, okay, you mentioned the offensive line five, six minutes ago.
00:16:55 And I think it's a good time to pivot there because we talk about there's only
00:16:58 so much you can learn and specifically for an offensive line, right?
00:17:01 The pads aren't on, that matters most of all, I think, to them in any position
00:17:04 group, but when you look at the lineup, and here was the lineup from left to right
00:17:09 for the Patriots starting offensive line.
00:17:11 Takuma Correfour, left tackle, left guard was city south.
00:17:14 David Andrews was at center, Nick Leverett was at right guard, and
00:17:18 then old pal Mike Unweno at right tackle.
00:17:21 What struck you most about that lineup?
00:17:23 >> Well, first of all, the most important one is a Correfour at left tackle because,
00:17:30 I mean, I had heard way back in March that the Patriots considered him
00:17:34 a potential starter at left tackle.
00:17:36 Rod Mayo said it at the NFL annual meeting, and now we're seeing it firsthand.
00:17:41 And there's the only other option to play left tackle really on the roster is
00:17:45 Caden Wallace other than, you've got Vidarian Lowe in there,
00:17:48 you've got Calvin Anderson, Tyron Wheatley.
00:17:50 But none of those guys worked out last year, so
00:17:52 you have to try something new this season.
00:17:53 So the Correfour was the obvious option, but we're seeing him out there at left
00:17:59 tackle despite the fact that he played two total snaps in six seasons with
00:18:04 the Steelers, and he played, I forgot how many it was.
00:18:08 I think it was almost 4,000 at right tackle, and
00:18:11 then some as a sixth offensive lineman at tight end.
00:18:14 So this guy hasn't played left tackle since college.
00:18:17 He played his last two years at Western Michigan.
00:18:20 And in talking to him after practice, I think he's just a fairly serious guy.
00:18:28 But he was even sort of tempering expectations for himself playing
00:18:33 left tackle being like, yeah, it's gonna take some time.
00:18:36 This is the first time I've actually had to go up against someone at left tackle in
00:18:41 like seven years or whatever it is.
00:18:44 And he was saying, I'm out there going up against Dietrich Weiss and
00:18:47 I have to figure out all the body positioning and the footwork and
00:18:50 the handwork and all that stuff.
00:18:52 Because he's so used to playing one way, now he has to shift another way.
00:18:55 So he's even saying that it's gonna take him some time to get back and
00:19:00 comfortable at left tackle.
00:19:02 But I mean, it can't take that long.
00:19:05 [LAUGH] If he's gonna be your week one starting left tackle, and
00:19:08 there's no one else really on the roster who you'd feel comfortable rolling out
00:19:12 there, I don't know, I just I found his answers somewhat interesting.
00:19:17 The second most interesting I think would be Sidney South left guard.
00:19:21 I think that we all expect Cole Strange to be at left guard when he's fully healthy.
00:19:25 He's still coming off the knee injury.
00:19:27 And I wonder, is Sidney South left guard because they think that
00:19:33 their next best guard has to start the season at left guard?
00:19:39 Or is Sidney South left guard as a placeholder and
00:19:42 they feel like their next best guard is Nick Leffert?
00:19:45 That's what I kind of would like to know out of that situation.
00:19:48 >> It's a great question because this goes a little bit back to why I think they
00:19:52 might have given Bailey Zappi a couple more reps again.
00:19:55 Because this OTAs are about knowing where to be and
00:19:57 what to do to steal a Simmonsism about people playing basketball.
00:20:01 And so veterans are gonna have the advantage in the practices about knowing
00:20:05 where to be and what to do.
00:20:06 And Nick Leffert fits that, Bailey Zappi fits that.
00:20:08 So if they're trying to experiment and figure out if Sidney South can play left
00:20:11 guard, which again, career college right guard.
00:20:14 Dabbled in right tackle last summer was a disaster and it goes back to right guard.
00:20:18 Hey, who knows, actually plays pretty well in his normal regular position.
00:20:24 I'm surprised that they moved him like that, but
00:20:26 it goes to a point that you and I have talked about before.
00:20:29 These players now specifically, or especially the interior offensive linemen,
00:20:34 are no longer guaranteed anything because they were drafted by Bill Belichick and
00:20:37 or Matt Groh.
00:20:38 This is a new regime, right?
00:20:40 They're drafting Leighton Robinson in the fourth round who's just outside of
00:20:43 the top 100.
00:20:44 He's gonna make the roster, that's a right guard.
00:20:46 So this might be, hey, Sidney South, you're an older player for a second year
00:20:50 guy, you need to sink or swim.
00:20:52 And that's gonna be at left guard because they know what they have in Nick Leveret.
00:20:55 Aside from that, whether Cole Strange comes back or not,
00:20:58 I think you need to resolve that position in a way that just hasn't been when he's
00:21:01 been there.
00:21:02 Part of it's been injury, right?
00:21:04 Both seasons here in the NFL for him, he's coming back off of another one.
00:21:07 It's just a lot of moving parts.
00:21:09 I think that was my takeaway from the offensive line.
00:21:11 They're gonna trust cross train guys.
00:21:13 They're gonna try them in new positions.
00:21:15 Caden Wallace didn't start at left tackle until it was a third team or
00:21:18 fourth team offense.
00:21:19 Which by the way, we should say Jalen Polk and Javon Baker,
00:21:22 one catch each on one target, only played with those same offenses,
00:21:26 third and fourth team.
00:21:26 So again, speaking to the veterans led the way, but
00:21:29 when your veterans are Darian Lowe, Chakuma Corfort, Tyron Wheatley Jr.
00:21:34 >> I will make one quick correction.
00:21:40 Sidney South primarily played left guard in college.
00:21:43 So this is kind of his natural position that he played in college,
00:21:48 would be left guard rather than right guard.
00:21:50 So maybe that plays into it as well.
00:21:52 But I actually forgot how old Sidney South is.
00:21:56 Sidney South is going to turn 26 on June 8th, and he was a rookie last season.
00:22:02 Chakuma Corfort is going to turn 27 in August, and
00:22:08 he's been in the NFL since 2018.
00:22:10 That's wild.
00:22:12 First of all, it's wild that Corfort came out of college so
00:22:16 young as a guy who I don't know his full history playing in the NFL.
00:22:21 >> Small school guy.
00:22:23 >> He played at Western Michigan, but I'm not sure in high school necessarily,
00:22:27 when he started playing football, because he was born in Nigeria.
00:22:30 He speaks with an accent.
00:22:32 So he was probably later to the sport than most people.
00:22:35 But my point here ultimately is that there is still some upside with
00:22:39 the Corfort as well, where he's only 26.
00:22:43 Yes, he's been playing right tackle for six seasons.
00:22:46 But it's not too late in his football life to make a switch to left tackle.
00:22:52 And I'm just kind of curious to see how it goes for him.
00:22:54 >> Yeah, I'm scrolling back through City Sound wondering where that guy in my head
00:22:58 that he was playing right guard.
00:22:59 And you know what it was?
00:23:00 He had just played guard the last five years.
00:23:02 And that's what I cast a moaning when they put him at right tackle.
00:23:04 It was just your career college guard, not left guard.
00:23:07 I'm glad we got that cleaned up though,
00:23:08 because we don't want to get anything wrong here ever.
00:23:11 Granted that it will happen.
00:23:12 And specifically when you watch a lot of the Patriots offense the last two years
00:23:15 professionally.
00:23:16 So let's go to the receivers then because I think the offensive line is gonna be
00:23:20 a moving puzzle for quite a while.
00:23:22 So there's not as much again, no pads, day one OTA stuff that we can do a lot of
00:23:27 serious analysis there, especially under a new coach.
00:23:29 Where we can do some more serious analysis is a group that you mentioned,
00:23:33 KJ Osborne and Taequann Thornton were leading off a lot of periods and
00:23:37 drills here today for those receivers.
00:23:39 And your leading receiver target getter, I should say, was Keshon Booty,
00:23:43 two out of four.
00:23:44 Reminder, Stephens, he was three out of three.
00:23:45 Austin Hooper caught two passes out of three targets.
00:23:47 And Osborne only had one out of three and he had the lone drop.
00:23:50 And yet of all the stuff that happened on the field, what had my attention most was
00:23:55 Juju Smith-Schuster's comments afterward when he was one of six players to speak
00:24:00 with us.
00:24:00 So start wherever you want, either the on the field part with this jumbled,
00:24:04 again, mess of a depth chart down Kendrick Bourne, of course.
00:24:07 I didn't even talk about Pop Douglas or Juju.
00:24:10 >> I mean, I thought it was kind of bizarre, honestly, that like you said,
00:24:15 KJ Osborne and Taequann Thornton were usually the wide receivers leading the way.
00:24:21 And that it wasn't Juju Smith-Schuster and that it wasn't Demario Douglas.
00:24:26 I don't know, I never in a million years would I have thought that Taequann Thornton
00:24:30 would have been the first wide receiver on the field in the starting offense.
00:24:33 And that's where we were.
00:24:34 I'm not sure the exact reason for that.
00:24:37 Maybe they think that he's the best fit.
00:24:40 What specific positions were they playing?
00:24:43 Did you take note of that?
00:24:45 Was Taequann on the X or the Z?
00:24:47 Do you know?
00:24:48 >> No, I mean, they were playing a lot of 12.
00:24:50 So at that point, if you're in a balanced two by two set,
00:24:53 it doesn't really matter unless you really wanna play the hash marks.
00:24:55 But even then, it's only a little extra room.
00:24:58 I would imagine that he would have been playing the X because I just don't want
00:25:01 him as a strong side blocker if we're running in that direction anyway.
00:25:05 But he's a guy that, as we know, doesn't separate all that particularly well.
00:25:09 Now he's trying to remake himself, but the bottom line is,
00:25:13 I think we're past the distinction of the X versus Z with him.
00:25:16 He needs to be a called fast receiver and show that.
00:25:20 >> Yeah, but I mean, Juju Smith-Schuster's comments after practice,
00:25:26 he said that at this time last year, he was at 60%.
00:25:30 And he missed the first OTAs practice.
00:25:34 He was kind of on and off the field, I think, last spring.
00:25:38 But he said that he was never at 100% physically all of last season.
00:25:43 That he never really rested well enough to get up to 100%.
00:25:49 He didn't get there by training camp, and then he's out there every day in practice.
00:25:55 Patriots don't really take days off for their veteran players, so
00:25:58 he's out there every day during the season as well.
00:26:01 And he never got up to 100%.
00:26:04 This offseason, he said that all he did was rest.
00:26:07 He watched Bridgerton on Netflix, and now he's at 100%.
00:26:11 He even said he's never felt better physically.
00:26:14 So the opposite of Chukwuma Okorafor, I feel like Juju Smith-Schuster
00:26:20 is kind of setting high expectations for himself this season.
00:26:25 When someone asked him what fans should expect out of him this season,
00:26:29 he said, I don't really wanna get into specifics, but just watch.
00:26:34 He is kind of setting expectations high.
00:26:36 And I don't know, I mean, I don't know what- >> Well,
00:26:38 he said the room was stacked.
00:26:40 >> Well, he also did say that, but
00:26:42 he was saying those same things last year about the Patriots wide receiver room.
00:26:46 The Patriots wide receivers were very high on themselves last year.
00:26:51 And the three specifically, being Juju Smith-Schuster, Kendrick Bourne, and
00:26:54 Devontae Parker.
00:26:56 What was the specific comment that Mike Giardi made about that?
00:27:01 >> Stink, stank, stunk.
00:27:01 >> Stink, stank, and stunk?
00:27:02 >> Yeah.
00:27:03 >> Kendrick Bourne took issue with that during training camp.
00:27:07 I think when Mike Giardi asked him a question, he just answered it like stink,
00:27:13 stink, stunk.
00:27:14 Ultimately, Mike Giardi was right about the Patriots wide receiver core last season.
00:27:18 They struggled.
00:27:19 Demario Douglas was a leading receiver.
00:27:20 He's a six-round pick.
00:27:22 Kendrick Bourne was off to a good season but got hurt.
00:27:25 Juju Smith-Schuster didn't even get 300 yards.
00:27:28 Devontae Parker struggled and got cut this offseason.
00:27:32 But so now we're going back around this year again of Juju Smith-Schuster
00:27:36 being high on the Patriots wide receiver core.
00:27:39 But at least this year, they do have KJ Osborne.
00:27:42 He's a different player.
00:27:43 And they also do have Jalen Polk and Javon Baker.
00:27:50 But he wasn't even really specifically talking about the young wide receivers
00:27:54 because he was asked about the rookies.
00:27:55 He said it was too early to tell.
00:27:57 So it does still feel like he's talking about himself, Kendrick Bourne,
00:28:00 maybe Tyquan Thornton, Demario Douglas, KJ Osborne.
00:28:05 I don't know.
00:28:06 I mean, in a recent article, say what you will, but
00:28:09 PFF said that the Patriots had the NFL's worst wide receiver core, which I don't
00:28:15 know, we'll find out in January if that's going to be the case.
00:28:19 But at least on paper, there's a case to be made that they, on paper,
00:28:23 have among the least talented wide receiver cores in the NFL right now.
00:28:29 >> There's so much there.
00:28:30 First of all, I think you were trying to be critical, but fair, and
00:28:34 cover all your bases.
00:28:36 And that was generally the job, right?
00:28:38 Bad teams, you need to be fair, and that involves being critical.
00:28:41 They stunk.
00:28:42 Yes, Mike was right.
00:28:44 That's it, 2023 Patriots, you need to know nothing more.
00:28:47 Second of all, RIP, retire in peace, to Devontae Parker,
00:28:50 whose retirement was announced just before we started recording here.
00:28:53 Someone who never took about accountability, did get traded to the Eagles,
00:28:57 and then said, this is actually- >> Was it a trade?
00:28:59 I thought he was released.
00:29:01 >> He was going to be released, and then they traded, and
00:29:02 it kind of, you'd want to take a couple extra footballs, really.
00:29:05 Which saved them a couple of bucks.
00:29:07 And now I don't know where the status of those things are, but
00:29:09 we're moving on anyway, because Devontae Parker is no longer a part of our lives,
00:29:13 and he finally managed to separate.
00:29:14 It just happened to be from the sport of football itself.
00:29:17 That said, your quote about KJ Osborne, he's a different player.
00:29:22 That's where we are with this position.
00:29:25 And again, I don't want to laugh about the position like I just did,
00:29:28 as far as the future of it.
00:29:29 We could get into part of the analysis here.
00:29:32 And the analysis is a combination of what was on the field, and what Juju said.
00:29:37 If he's 100%, and that maintains, which is a huge if, if that maintains.
00:29:43 Because it's one thing to rest up and watch Netflix for four months and
00:29:47 feel good.
00:29:47 Of course you're going to feel good.
00:29:49 How do you handle the wear and tear that kept him below 100% last season?
00:29:53 As I reported after the opener going, his knee is not 100%, and they know.
00:29:57 They absolutely knew it the whole time.
00:29:59 If it holds up, he's not only someone that can play, because let's just be generous
00:30:05 and put him somewhere close to the 2022 form, where he has almost 900 yards with
00:30:09 the Chiefs, and he's playing with Patrick Mullins, I get that.
00:30:11 Five, 600 yards does it for this group, right?
00:30:14 And he's a guy with a little bit more yards after catchability.
00:30:17 Not only is he someone who can just play, like Jacoby Brissett is the caretaker
00:30:22 until Drake May is ready in the same way that he could be for Javon Baker.
00:30:25 He might be from trade liability, where you're attaching a pick to offload him in
00:30:29 his contract, to maybe, maybe an asset.
00:30:34 And that's a huge thing for this team that can save a lot more money if they trade
00:30:37 him versus outright cut, where I'm getting questions a week ago, two weeks ago.
00:30:41 Even someone making an offhand comment to me today at practice.
00:30:44 Why is Juju still here?
00:30:46 And the answer is, maybe he is 100% and his knee is fixed.
00:30:50 I'm not betting on it, but we can talk about KJ Osborne being just a different
00:30:53 veteran in a new spot, or maybe it's the rookies and we'll see.
00:30:57 Juju might be all false bravado, might be unfounded, but
00:31:01 just the possibility being spoken into the universe by him,
00:31:05 expert on his own knee, even though he was lying to us publicly about it last year.
00:31:13 Makes a difference to me, not only just on the field, but
00:31:15 as far as what their possible asset treasure chest might be.
00:31:19 Again, it's teeny tiny, it's like a coin, that it could be at the deadline for
00:31:23 a team that's rebuilding, that's important.
00:31:25 >> I'll also say this about Juju Smith-Schuster,
00:31:28 Patriots fans are very, they hate themselves in Juju Smith-Schuster.
00:31:33 And to some degree, I can understand the animosity there.
00:31:38 Patriots gave him a lot of money, it was a three year, $33 million deal.
00:31:42 Beyond that, the Patriots picked Juju Smith-Schuster over Jacobi Myers.
00:31:47 So I understand that they're still sour about that,
00:31:49 which they have every right to be.
00:31:51 That being said, so the five wide receivers who we think with confidence will make
00:31:58 the roster, Javon Baker, Jalen Polk, Kendrick Bourne, Demario Douglas, and
00:32:03 KJ Osborne.
00:32:04 So then there's that sixth spot that we'll probably talk about all summer,
00:32:08 that comes down to Juju Smith-Schuster, Tyquan Thornton, Jalen Riker.
00:32:12 Those are the big three, then you can throw in Keishon Booty.
00:32:16 >> Where are all the big three in the NBA history just going,
00:32:20 we just got lumped in with Tyquan Thornton, Juju Smith-Schuster, Jalen Riker.
00:32:24 Somewhere Larry Burge is scoffing, yeah, sorry, go on.
00:32:27 >> [LAUGH] Yeah, so then, yeah, like I said, you can throw in Kewan Baker if you
00:32:31 want to, T.J. Luther, Keishon Booty as well.
00:32:34 >> I don't want to, I don't.
00:32:35 >> But the player out of those, what is it, six guys, once again,
00:32:39 I'll repeat them again, Kewan Baker, Keishon Booty, T.J. Luther,
00:32:44 Jalen Riker, Juju Smith-Schuster, and Tyquan Thornton.
00:32:48 The one with the most upside is still Juju Smith-Schuster,
00:32:51 because at least you've seen him get 900 yards in a season.
00:32:55 You've seen him get 1,400 yards in a season.
00:32:59 And the 900 yard season with the Chiefs was two years ago.
00:33:02 So if he is 100%, then yeah, that productivity,
00:33:07 that performance is still possible within Juju Smith-Schuster.
00:33:11 I don't really think that it's possible for the other five wide receivers in that
00:33:17 list to have a 900 yard season, to have a 14 yard season,
00:33:21 to ever have a 900 or 14 yard season.
00:33:24 So Juju Smith-Schuster, among that group, even though Patriots fans have a lot of
00:33:29 animosity towards him, still the guy with the highest ceiling in that group,
00:33:35 that group competing for the six wide receiver spot.
00:33:38 >> And also a non-zero chance he has to sit out the second day of mini camp,
00:33:41 because, no, my knee is still- >> Absolutely, yeah.
00:33:43 No, he doesn't have the lowest floor, but
00:33:47 obviously we saw the floor last year and it was ugly.
00:33:51 That being said, there was two players on that list of six wide receivers who had
00:33:55 an even lower floor last season, yeah.
00:33:59 Okay, so the draft is behind us, but that means the best is still ahead of us.
00:34:03 I'm talking playoff games, Celtics, Bruins, and
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00:35:35 Last thing in the offense, let me ask you this.
00:35:36 Do you feel like you already know the system after one practice,
00:35:42 one OTA practice that Alex Van Pelt wants to run?
00:35:44 >> Yeah, I think that you can get a pretty good sense of it.
00:35:49 A lot of outside zone, play action.
00:35:52 Yeah, I mean, yeah, I think that they're showing a lot of what they wanna do,
00:35:57 because they have to install this thing quickly right now.
00:35:59 >> I could not agree more, and I think it is the greatest thing for
00:36:03 this offense, that not only are you going into camp, spring, not even camp,
00:36:07 not even minicamp, not training camp, OTAs, knowing your identity.
00:36:11 >> Yeah. >> Knowing how the players are gonna
00:36:12 fit in there, this is what we're going to be about, and
00:36:14 this is what we're going to do week in and week out.
00:36:16 Because this is not a team equipped with talent anymore all across the board,
00:36:20 where we can play the, we're a game plan offense.
00:36:22 And Gerard's gonna say that, but
00:36:24 this offense drill at outside zone after outside zone after outside zone.
00:36:28 The quarterbacks then drilled with these fake handoffs,
00:36:31 where they would hand off to no one, spin around and bootleg.
00:36:34 This offense compliments itself after one day in a way that I feel very confident.
00:36:39 Not only is it a guy who I can look at his resume and, Alex Van Pelt's been around for
00:36:42 like 30 years, a little bit over time in NFL Europe.
00:36:44 That was a long time ago, Bills, Bucks, Bengals, Browns,
00:36:47 all these different teams, I saw the vertical passing game.
00:36:51 Even if they're not getting completed, it makes sense in a way.
00:36:54 It fits that we just haven't seen with this offense now in three years with
00:36:59 the Patriots, and it gave me not a lot of confidence that it will necessarily succeed.
00:37:04 But the players will know the plans, and in a time dedicated to know where to be and
00:37:08 what to do, that's not gonna be an issue in a way that we haven't seen
00:37:11 the last couple of years.
00:37:12 So whether it's Jacoby Broussard or Drake May at the controls, I don't know.
00:37:16 But I love the fact that even a day for just early down work,
00:37:20 you can see the stretch level concepts on the sideline.
00:37:22 You can see the deep play action shots.
00:37:24 You can see some of the 12 personnel stuff, the outside.
00:37:26 It all makes sense.
00:37:29 >> Yeah, absolutely.
00:37:31 And then I think it also, for players who have struggled in this offense, and
00:37:36 Juju Smith-Schuster last year, Tyquan Thornton for two years.
00:37:39 It gives them maybe a little glimmer of hope that things could be different this
00:37:44 season with a new system, with things being defined in late May.
00:37:48 >> Yeah, which sounds like the antithesis of anything you would ever want to hear
00:37:52 for 20 years as a Patriots fan.
00:37:54 Like, we know what they're gonna do.
00:37:56 Bill is gonna spring all of these curveballs on them, plan B, and
00:37:59 game plan wrinkles, and yada, yada, yada.
00:38:01 Again, they're not gonna run the exact same plays over and over again.
00:38:04 But this is a do what we do type of offense, and I think it can absolutely work.
00:38:08 I mean, hell, they had five different quarterbacks last year in Cleveland.
00:38:11 The offensive line was better, that can't be overlooked.
00:38:13 But it's just, there's a formula here and an understanding that Alex Van Pelt's
00:38:18 there, Ben McIndoe's basically your shadow quarterback's coach.
00:38:21 And so he's not involved as he was at times when people were upset with him with
00:38:23 the Giants and Panthers last year.
00:38:25 And I think it's just all a really, really good idea.
00:38:29 All right, let's talk some defense, shall we?
00:38:32 Because after Juju Smith-Schuster,
00:38:34 the players of note that we heard from today after practice, Keon White,
00:38:38 Marcus Jones, Christian Barmore, who upgraded his, he didn't even say.
00:38:45 He just said fishing stuff after his giant contract,
00:38:47 largest contract ever, second to Tom Brady.
00:38:50 That'll watch, and a house and a car, already got a mom, a house, it's very good.
00:38:53 Just a new rod and reel, it sounds like.
00:38:55 And then Kyle Duggar, I know you didn't spend a ton of time around him.
00:38:59 Duggar had the only pass breakup today, no interceptions, no forced fumbles.
00:39:03 But again, either post practice or what we saw on the field,
00:39:06 what stuck out to you defensively?
00:39:07 >> I mean, I feel like we didn't see a ton of the cornerbacks that we expect to play
00:39:13 a lot this season out there on the field.
00:39:15 I felt like every time I was paying specific attention to the defense,
00:39:20 you were seeing guys like Marco Wilson out there, Alex Austin,
00:39:25 Marcellas Dial was out there.
00:39:27 I actually thought that Marcellas Dial had some good coverage on one in
00:39:32 completion by, I think it was Billy Zappi, might have been,
00:39:34 Chikubi Risset, I have to go back to my notes.
00:39:36 So Marcellas Dial was someone who made a good early impression for me.
00:39:42 That was the only defensive draft pick that the Patriots made.
00:39:45 But I mean, there's also just so many players on defense missing right now.
00:39:51 Like the Patriots were down their top three outside linebackers,
00:39:57 with Matthew Judon, Anthony Jennings, Josh Uche, all not out there.
00:40:01 No Devon Godshaw, who's obviously a cog in the middle of the defense.
00:40:07 But no, I mean, I think that one thing that stood out to me as well on defense,
00:40:13 just going through the line, Marte Mapu was very heavily involved.
00:40:17 And he was playing a lot of different positions again.
00:40:19 I don't know, I think there's part of me that might wanna see Marte Mapu
00:40:25 locked down in one position this summer or spring just to see,
00:40:29 like, all right, you're gonna be a third safety, so do one thing really well.
00:40:34 But also the Patriots drafted him because of his versatility,
00:40:37 his ability to play linebackers, ability to play safety.
00:40:39 But I mean, we saw him one snap lining up,
00:40:42 I think it was next to Juwan Bentley at linebacker.
00:40:45 Someone on another snap playing deep safety.
00:40:47 So it really does seem like they're gonna be moving him around quite a bit,
00:40:50 again, on defense this year.
00:40:52 >> Yeah, and it's hard to discern sometimes, right,
00:40:54 whether he's just playing one of those safety roles,
00:40:58 where they're gonna rotate guys into the box.
00:40:59 Like we see Kyle Duggar sometimes just hunker down, second level.
00:41:02 And then other times he's back as a single high free safety.
00:41:05 The only trepidation it gives me is I trust Kyle Duggar a lot more,
00:41:09 even as a box safety, to play that single high role than I do Marte Mapu.
00:41:13 And it's not just because he took a couple false steps when they're playing
00:41:16 quarters and they're at Miami and Tyreek Hill goes by him in a way that you can
00:41:19 only just not allow Tyreek Hill to go by you by stepping forward.
00:41:22 It's he's 6'3" and 230 pounds, man, and that's listed.
00:41:27 So maybe he's only 6'1" and 225.
00:41:29 Still not a guy I want at the third level of the defense,
00:41:33 unless it's in a two high shell.
00:41:35 And we did see some more two high shell, which is gonna be a scheme question.
00:41:38 I don't think they're gonna answer quite yet.
00:41:40 And they are making some twists, which happens every year, right?
00:41:43 But with the system, and I wanna get to that in a second, but that's more upfront.
00:41:47 Like they're gonna have to protect themselves in a way with that lack of
00:41:49 a traditional safety.
00:41:50 And Jalen Hawkins might be waving across the room being like, no, hey, it's me.
00:41:54 Not yet, you're right.
00:41:55 It's clearly Duggar, it's clearly Peppers, it's clearly Mapu.
00:41:59 Mapu bouncing around is interesting to me, but
00:42:01 it's not something I wanna see him do a whole lot.
00:42:03 I think he's just so much better as a second level player,
00:42:06 whether he is as a rotational back safety or
00:42:08 full time linebacker, that I want him back there.
00:42:11 I'm surprised he didn't go Christian Gonzalez though,
00:42:12 because we finally saw him.
00:42:14 And he blanketed a deep ball down the sideline that was incomplete.
00:42:19 He started opposite Jonathan Jones in the last quote unquote two minute drill that
00:42:22 didn't really go anywhere and didn't mean anything.
00:42:24 And the only reason that meant something to me as far as the symbolism of it,
00:42:29 is that that was the group they're gonna try to out when things matter.
00:42:32 If they had to play a game tomorrow, those are the guys and
00:42:34 he was there in the outside.
00:42:36 >> Yeah, no, absolutely.
00:42:37 Good to see Christian Gonzalez out there, we weren't really sure.
00:42:40 And the injury happened so early last season that I think we all kind of assumed
00:42:43 that him and Marcus Jones would be 100%.
00:42:46 And they were, Marcus Jones said after practice that he's feeling 100%.
00:42:51 I still, I have a lot of confidence in Christian Gonzalez,
00:42:55 I have a lot of confidence in Jonathan Jones.
00:42:58 The third cornerback spot, I know that it's probably gonna be Marcus Jones and
00:43:02 everyone in the organization that I ever speak to is high on Marcus Jones.
00:43:07 Likes to pick, likes the player, thinks he'll be good.
00:43:10 We just haven't really seen that yet on full display over the course of
00:43:15 like a training camp or a summer or an off season or even a season.
00:43:18 I'm just really curious still to see where he settles on this team.
00:43:23 Because we've seen him play so much outside in these practices.
00:43:27 And I still just don't love that for a 5'8" cornerback.
00:43:31 And if he plays in the slot, then that would force Jonathan Jones to continue
00:43:35 playing outside, which is fine, but still probably not his strength as a player.
00:43:40 >> Yeah, that's, yeah, go back to critical and fair for the receivers.
00:43:45 5'8" dude not built to play in the outside is absolutely right.
00:43:48 And I asked him too, after practice, hey, do you understand that your role will be
00:43:52 nickel or will it bounce around?
00:43:54 And he just kind of did the dance around typical Patriots answer under Belichick.
00:43:57 Something Keon White did not do, as relayed to me by Andy Hart after practice,
00:44:01 front of the pod, WEI's Andy Hart.
00:44:03 But he was like, yeah, what's the difference?
00:44:05 Bill's not MFing us after every single play.
00:44:08 And Bill's my guy, but
00:44:09 it's very different when he's not cussing you out after every single play.
00:44:12 And so some guys are opening up.
00:44:14 We heard from Juju tell us walking away, the vibes are much better.
00:44:17 Marcus Jones though, is still playing tight lipped.
00:44:20 He might not actually know because I mentioned Jonathan Jones.
00:44:24 I didn't include this in my write up, but he was playing safety for
00:44:28 a stretch of the second last 11 on 11 periods and back there in a again a two
00:44:32 high shell so it could be just we're gonna experiment or
00:44:35 you know you're doing in this system, Jonathan Jones.
00:44:37 But I think there are some moving parts there where they might like to have
00:44:40 Marcus Jones there at nickel but if they just don't feel totally secure about him
00:44:45 or Jonathan Jones in the outside, maybe they have to bump someone outside and
00:44:48 it is Marcus Jones.
00:44:49 You know, because again, if this could be a series of dominoes,
00:44:53 if Marta Mopu is not suited to be a safety full time.
00:44:57 As far as like, single high, you can't trust him there.
00:44:59 That pulls Jonathan Jones back from the outside spot,
00:45:01 moves Marcus Jones from nickel over to outside and
00:45:03 then you're filling that nickel spot with who knows beats me.
00:45:07 But I think these are all the things that they're just trying to weigh.
00:45:09 >> Yeah, and I mean, I do think there's some players on this roster
00:45:12 who've got some upside at quarterback like Marco Wilson has started.
00:45:15 NFL, Alex Austin looked good last year, Isaiah Bolton looked pretty good last
00:45:19 summer, so like there are some guys, there are some dudes at cornerback.
00:45:23 But they just, there's not a lot of certainty at that position right now.
00:45:29 And in your comment about Keon White saying that Bill isn't
00:45:34 mother effing these guys after every play, I do actually wonder,
00:45:37 I was thinking about this today.
00:45:39 Like, who is gonna be that guy who's hard on the team when they keep
00:45:44 playing shitty during a random training camp practice and
00:45:46 they all have to huddle and someone screams at them like,
00:45:50 is that gonna be Gerard Mayo?
00:45:53 Is that gonna be David Andrews?
00:45:55 Is that gonna be like, is that gonna be Jabil Peppers or Jawan Bentley?
00:45:59 Like, I don't know, I'm just I'm curious to see if that is gonna be Gerard Mayo.
00:46:04 If he takes that turn from players coach to be being a little bit harder on these
00:46:09 guys when they are playing poorly.
00:46:10 Because we've seen stretches in practice over the last few years where things are
00:46:15 just going very poorly.
00:46:16 They have to huddle, someone has to scream at them and things get cleaned up.
00:46:20 And that's probably gonna happen again in the summer at some point.
00:46:23 >> God help him, I hope it's not David Andrews.
00:46:25 That man has been through a lot.
00:46:27 He has had five different offensive line coaches in the last five years,
00:46:31 different offensive coordinators, a lot of crappy players and system around him.
00:46:36 I just, the man needs a break.
00:46:37 He did just get a contract extension.
00:46:39 Maybe that was baked into that written to a certain clause like, hey,
00:46:42 no one Scott Peters doesn't want to be the bad guy.
00:46:44 He just got here.
00:46:45 It's got Peters who will rip your head off because he can.
00:46:48 It's just as big, strong, physical, burly man, but
00:46:50 just doesn't want to do it properly.
00:46:51 I don't know, this is off the rails.
00:46:53 >> Andrews is the guy on the roster probably carries the most clout though,
00:46:56 right?
00:46:57 Like, sometimes you're a champion, team leader.
00:46:59 >> A million percent.
00:47:00 >> Yeah. >> And seven time captain.
00:47:03 He's been a captain longer than I've been on the beat, which blew my mind as I was
00:47:06 writing that sentence in some post, probably last week about his extension.
00:47:10 But no question has the most clout.
00:47:11 And I can't say this for certain, but I would be shocked that that didn't factor
00:47:16 into their decision of, hey, we'd really like you to come back,
00:47:18 help lay the foundation.
00:47:19 We'll give you an extra year if you can commit.
00:47:21 And he did.
00:47:23 >> Yeah.
00:47:24 >> Okay, the thing I teased earlier about this twist,
00:47:29 this change to the system was something that Christian Barmore,
00:47:32 who is an interesting interview, not because he's not 25 yet, and
00:47:36 he just became the second richest patriot ever by total value contract behind
00:47:39 only Tom Brady.
00:47:41 It's he's just, as you noted, kind of speaks in fragments, and
00:47:43 it's a little hurried, and he's a very jovial guy.
00:47:46 But sometimes they'll just leave you hanging and you don't know what's going on.
00:47:49 So I just asked him, hey, what's different about this defense?
00:47:52 Coach Cummings, and you know him well, he was your position coach,
00:47:54 like tell me what's kind of going on here.
00:47:56 He's like, rushing, rushing, the pass rush.
00:47:59 Play more four down, I think, like just everyone get your matchup and
00:48:03 you gotta win.
00:48:04 And on the surface, yeah, every pass rusher wants to rush more,
00:48:08 especially when your old boss, your old position coach takes over.
00:48:12 And pass rushing comes largely down to beat the man across from you.
00:48:15 >> Yeah. >> But the idea that they might play
00:48:17 more four down, had my ear the more and more that I thought about it based on
00:48:23 their personnel, where you can park Matt Judon opposite Josh Uche,
00:48:27 inside Christian Barmore with, again, Devon Gottschauer, Daniel Eccuale, or
00:48:32 Keon White if you wanna kick him inside, Teacher Twyford rotating the edge,
00:48:34 like all these different guys.
00:48:36 It makes more sense to play a numbers game versus just kind of a controlled
00:48:39 leverage, two gap hybrid kind of thing.
00:48:43 Am I making too much of this?
00:48:45 >> No, I think it's interesting and I think we heard way back at some point that
00:48:49 the Patriots defense could be a little bit more aggressive under Demarcus Covington.
00:48:53 I don't know, I personally, it would be,
00:48:59 that would be more fun for players, it would potentially be more fun to watch
00:49:03 because these guys could really pin their ears back and get up to the quarterback.
00:49:07 But I think the biggest part of me is saying,
00:49:11 why mess with a good thing because Patriots defense has been very good for
00:49:17 most of Bill Belichick's tenure as a head coach.
00:49:19 Even over the last few years, when the team has not performed well,
00:49:25 the defense has still been standing on its own.
00:49:27 They were a top 10 defense last year, despite being 4 and 13.
00:49:30 So some of these things that players might not love, like containing and
00:49:35 not rushing past a quarterback and making sure the quarterbacks aren't scrambling.
00:49:39 And not necessarily just like pin ears back and trying to sack the quarterback.
00:49:43 They're proven to have worked with this current roster,
00:49:47 with this team, with these players.
00:49:49 So I probably wouldn't change something that was working pretty well for
00:49:55 the Patriots, but I don't know, we'll see.
00:49:57 Christian Barmore would probably benefit from it.
00:49:59 Josh Uj would certainly benefit from it.
00:50:01 Matthew Drewdon would probably benefit from it.
00:50:03 But I'm not sure if the unit and team as a whole would benefit from it,
00:50:08 especially if quarterbacks start getting out of the pocket and
00:50:10 scrambling and really hurting you.
00:50:12 >> Yeah, I'm with you.
00:50:13 And it's, to put this on myself, hey, Callie, and it's May 20th.
00:50:17 >> Right.
00:50:18 >> Christian Barmore saying, we might play four down, I think,
00:50:21 is not anything to be run with.
00:50:23 But again, from within a Patriots context of that being said publicly is
00:50:27 interesting.
00:50:28 And I think from a roster standpoint, for the first time in a while,
00:50:31 makes sense given who you have and the bodies that you could rotate in.
00:50:34 Because you look at a lot more of the traditional four down teams.
00:50:38 I don't think that'll be their base run.
00:50:39 They've been a hybrid.
00:50:41 People always wanted to do the two buckets, two gapping and one gapping.
00:50:43 They've been hybrid for a long, long time.
00:50:45 You could legitimately run out there with some one gapping across the board, but
00:50:49 we'll just, we'll see.
00:50:51 >> Anything else defensively that we haven't touched on?
00:50:53 >> I don't think so.
00:50:57 Certainly nothing, Jelani Tavae, you mentioned it,
00:51:01 was out there in street clothes or sweats or whatever.
00:51:05 I was told that that was because he had some sort of offseason procedure.
00:51:09 I don't know exactly what it was.
00:51:12 The Patriots obviously don't love to disclose specific injuries or
00:51:15 anything like that.
00:51:16 But that was injury based rather than just him not wanting to be out there.
00:51:22 And in his place, because I think I need to make rule of this podcast,
00:51:25 that anytime we can talk about Sione Takitaki,
00:51:28 we need to talk about Sione Takitaki, who's wearing number 16.
00:51:33 Not yet with the Takitaki nameplate on it, but
00:51:37 it's a little jarring for a linebacker to wear 16 and
00:51:40 then a hybrid safety linebacker now Marte Mappa wearing 15.
00:51:43 Aside from that though, not the name Takitaki or the numbers.
00:51:46 He looked fine next to Juwan Bentley, right at home in a new defense.
00:51:51 >> Absolutely, yeah, I think that was a quality signing.
00:51:55 They need more depth at linebacker and he's a guy who certain people coming over
00:52:00 from the Browns knew and seems like that's gonna be a good fit for him and the team.
00:52:06 >> Okay, three mailbag questions.
00:52:07 We'll get you out of here to wrap up day one of OTAs.
00:52:09 The next OTA, by the way, the OTA practice open to reporters Wednesday, May 29th.
00:52:15 So we have a ways to go before we see anything again here.
00:52:18 This question is not about Sione Takitaki.
00:52:20 It is about is there a chance they keep six wide receivers?
00:52:23 Who would you keep barring injury?
00:52:24 You inadvertently answered this question.
00:52:27 But just to reiterate for Chris, who asked this,
00:52:31 with the names that are obvious and off the top, KJ Osborne, Kendrick Bourne,
00:52:36 Pop Douglas, Jalen Polk, Javon Baker, Juju Smith-Schuster, or Ty Quantenthornton,
00:52:42 or Jalen Rager.
00:52:44 And Juju is gonna get that head to head based on salary alone.
00:52:47 If he's 100%, he moves to the headline because he is the most talented, or
00:52:52 at least has proven to be the most talented among that group.
00:52:56 >> Yeah, and I guess, yeah, Keyshawn, if you wanna have a big four,
00:52:59 Keyshawn Booty would be the fourth one in there.
00:53:01 And Patriots fans love them some Keyshawn Booty, so
00:53:03 I do feel like they'll be screaming at us if we don't include him in there.
00:53:07 I would have Juju be the sixth guy as it stands right now.
00:53:12 Like I mentioned, I just think he has the highest upside.
00:53:15 Ty Quantenthornton is exciting, that speed is exciting, and he's bulked up and
00:53:20 done everything right this offseason and everything.
00:53:22 So, but it's just, he lacked production as a rookie,
00:53:29 despite all the snaps that he had played over 50% of snaps and lacked production as
00:53:33 a rookie, and didn't even crack the century mark in his second season,
00:53:39 despite being healthier, it seems like for most of it.
00:53:43 So I'm gonna need to see a lot out of Ty Quantenthornton to put him on
00:53:46 the Patriots roster this season.
00:53:48 And Jalen Rager, he's a kickoff guy,
00:53:52 another one who played a pretty good amount last season and
00:53:57 really didn't have a whole lot to show for it statistically.
00:54:00 So if you have to put a six foot wider seed on this roster,
00:54:02 Juju, at least you know what he can do, he can play some spots.
00:54:06 If he really is feeling 100%,
00:54:07 then it almost feels like it's kinda the obvious answer right now.
00:54:12 >> Yeah, speaking of receivers again, Dan, I read one report of the wide receivers
00:54:17 not getting open against whatever half speed offense versus defense was played
00:54:21 today, did you observe this as well?
00:54:24 And if so, any concern?
00:54:25 >> I'm not worrying about that right now until these guys are playing full speed,
00:54:30 they just can't do it right now during OTA.
00:54:33 So no, I don't have any real major concerns about that,
00:54:36 especially since the wider receiver groupings were kind of all over the place.
00:54:40 Kendrick Bourne's not out there, I'd like to see Polak and Baker more.
00:54:45 Like I said, Baker got some separation on that out route that Drake May completed
00:54:50 to him, but we'll know more by minicamp with the wide receivers than we will after
00:54:55 this first practice.
00:54:57 >> Yeah, look, there were roughly 30 competitive reps in all of practice.
00:55:03 Like yes, it was two hours, you had an 11 on 11 period and
00:55:05 you had a seven on seven period.
00:55:06 That's 30 reps split between the first team offense, the second team offense,
00:55:09 the third team offense, and the fourth.
00:55:11 Very small samples for all of these guys who are doing day one stuff.
00:55:15 Think about how easy it would be to continue the car analogy,
00:55:18 tailing someone who's just going around the cul-de-sac.
00:55:21 Not very hard.
00:55:22 Yes, of course, the receivers should want to get open,
00:55:24 they're professional receivers.
00:55:26 I just, for the amount of live drills that they did,
00:55:30 it's not something that I would be concerned with.
00:55:31 Not to mention every single quarterback had a completion percentage above 50%.
00:55:36 So that's also a reflection on the receivers as well as the quarterbacks.
00:55:40 Keith, real quick, why is Zappi still here?
00:55:43 >> You know what, it is interesting because
00:55:47 the Patriots cut Nathan Rourke and kept Bailey Zappi.
00:55:54 And I do feel like the easier, simpler way to handle that would have been
00:55:59 getting rid of Bailey Zappi rather than Nathan Rourke.
00:56:03 Completely starting over at the quarterback position.
00:56:06 Everyone has to earn everything.
00:56:09 There's no ties to any players on the roster.
00:56:11 We know the players like Bailey Zappi.
00:56:13 We know that players are close to him.
00:56:15 It just would have been a clean slate there.
00:56:17 But I also think that it probably would have looked bad to just outright cut him.
00:56:20 I don't know, I was talking to Chris Price about this, I think, a few weeks ago.
00:56:26 Just while we were hanging out at Gillette Stadium.
00:56:29 Maybe there's a possibility that if someone's backup quarterback at some point
00:56:34 gets hurt, then you could do a six, seven-throwing swap or something.
00:56:38 And trade Bailey Zappi just because he has played, he has started,
00:56:41 he has won games.
00:56:43 Maybe someone could talk them into themselves as Bailey Zappi being their
00:56:46 backup.
00:56:47 But ultimately, I don't know, I think that there's much more upside in having
00:56:52 Jacoby Percet, Drake May, and Joe Milton being your quarterbacks in 2024 rather
00:56:56 than keeping Bailey Zappi around.
00:56:58 >> Yeah, I think there's a difference between keeping around for May, June,
00:57:02 and July, and August, and then there is past October 1st.
00:57:06 And the short answer is insurance.
00:57:08 It's not just against Drake May getting hurt or needing a backup backup.
00:57:13 It's Jacoby Percet goes down, and you don't want to put Drake May behind the
00:57:16 offensive line that just got Jacoby Percet injured.
00:57:19 So I don't know if it was Bob Sosia or whoever was on here beforehand on
00:57:22 the podcast, but made a good point of that's a somewhat valuable asset.
00:57:27 And whether it's via trade, because of what you just said, someone goes down, or
00:57:30 someone in your own roster, again, God forbid, goes down and
00:57:33 you're not ready to put the future at risk, and they want a stable situation.
00:57:37 That's why he's here to take the hits if necessary.
00:57:40 And also, if Joe Milton isn't better than most six round picks who just get cut,
00:57:46 like he will be a very exciting.
00:57:48 I wouldn't put him on my 53 man roster right now.
00:57:50 Anyone who does, you might have, I totally get it and understand.
00:57:54 But it's gonna be, I think a while before he proves, hey,
00:57:58 I'm better than Bailey Zappi, which is not a huge compliment to Bailey Zappi.
00:58:02 It's just there's only so many ways you can do that with minimal snaps,
00:58:05 which is what Joe Milton is going to get.
00:58:06 And Gerard Mayo told Sports Illustrated today, yeah,
00:58:09 they plan to have it down to three quarterbacks for the summer.
00:58:12 And it'll be one of Bailey Zappi or Joe Milton.
00:58:15 Joe Milton has to do that in like three weeks, and it's hard.
00:58:19 >> And I know that I can foresee Patriots fans being like,
00:58:23 how could Bailey Zappi possibly be a trade asset?
00:58:26 How could he possibly be better than some of the backup quarterbacks in the NFL?
00:58:29 The Chicago Bears backup quarterbacks right now are Tyson Badgent,
00:58:34 Austin Reed, and Brett Rippin.
00:58:36 Like that's rough.
00:58:38 The Green Bay Packers backups behind Jordan Love are Sean Clifford and
00:58:41 Michael Pratt.
00:58:42 Like, yes, actually, there are teams where Bailey Zappi
00:58:46 would be the best backup quarterback on the roster.
00:58:48 So it's not like out of the realm of possibility that the Patriots could
00:58:51 potentially get something like a pick swap or something.
00:58:55 They're not gonna get a fourth round pick or fifth round pick for
00:58:57 them or anything like that.
00:58:58 But there are some teams who could actually possibly need someone like
00:59:01 Bailey Zappi on the roster behind their starting quarterback.
00:59:04 >> Those Bears backup quarterbacks sound like the All-State team for
00:59:09 lacrosse when you were in high school.
00:59:10 Like you're going down the list.
00:59:12 There's a Tyson in there, Brett Rippin is like a small middie or
00:59:17 short stick something.
00:59:18 I just, [LAUGH] I don't know,
00:59:21 these dudes are going to Ivy Leagues or had to settle and go somewhere else.
00:59:24 >> And I still remember last year watching the Packers being like, so
00:59:28 they're going all in on Jordan Love.
00:59:30 Because their backup quarterbacks in those joint practices were just such no
00:59:34 name, so bad.
00:59:35 >> Sean Clifford, yeah.
00:59:36 >> And they're doing it again this year with Sean Clifford as a backup and
00:59:39 Michael Pratt as seventh round pick as being the third string, so yeah.
00:59:42 >> Yeah, it's- >> And the Seahawks apparently right now
00:59:44 only have two quarterbacks on their roster, which I found interesting.
00:59:47 It's only Sam Howell and Geno Smith.
00:59:49 >> Hm.
00:59:50 >> Kind of weird.
00:59:51 >> Yeah. >> But who cares about the Seahawks?
00:59:53 >> [LAUGH] I don't know,
00:59:55 the only person who's been on this podcast who probably cares about them is you.
00:59:58 [LAUGH] >> Pigeons are playing them this year,
01:00:00 I guess.
01:00:01 >> Yeah, that's true.
01:00:02 All right, he is the people's favorite guest, that is Doug Kye.
01:00:04 We have just wrapped up day one of OTAs.
01:00:06 I think better than you will hear anyway, a little scatter shot,
01:00:08 a little list of the lap.
01:00:09 But again, the truth is in the trends, and
01:00:11 it's going to be a while before we have trends from OTAs.
01:00:14 Nine more practices, only four will be available to the media.
01:00:17 Mini camp, which is June 11th, 12th, 13th, and 13th might get lopped off,
01:00:23 because sometimes that's a reward for players for having a good spring.
01:00:26 That's what they're building towards, mandatory mini camp.
01:00:28 The healthiest team will be this spring, and
01:00:30 then we'll go after the summer when we really learn about it.
01:00:32 But hey man, it was fun to burn in the sun with you.
01:00:34 It was fun to watch quote unquote football, and
01:00:36 thanks for making some more time.
01:00:38 >> One of us was smart enough to put on sunscreen before the practice, and
01:00:41 didn't necessarily burn in the sun too much, but.
01:00:43 >> [LAUGH] Backing the bustle for the guys already sunburned, I appreciate it.
01:00:47 It was fun, thanks for having me.
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