00:00me on that trip back in 2021 when there was so much hope. Senator Young. Thank you, Chairman.
00:06Special Envoy Perriello, there's hope that your appointment to this position will
00:10spark the need to end this latest chapter in a decades-long history of violence and
00:18humanitarian devastation in Sudan. I share that hope as well, but you're certainly aware that
00:24bringing a lasting peace to Sudan isn't achievable in your tenure, however long that will last.
00:32In that vein, I'd welcome your big-picture perspective on what's achievable in a Special
00:40Envoy role beyond the obvious cessation of hostilities. Specifically, I'd welcome
00:45your reflections from your other Special Envoy role in the Great Lakes region, in DRC,
00:52dealing with a lengthy, even intractable conflict. What victories and lessons learned
00:57do you take from Congo that you can apply in Sudan?
01:02Thank you very much for the question and for the interest. It is true that we have been on a mad
01:08sprint the last three months. I hope the bags under my eyes can be testimony to how seriously
01:14we're taking the urgency of the talks. But we have had conversations and planning sessions about what
01:20is the mid-horizon and what is the far horizon, and how do we ensure that across our government,
01:26and I think this includes across branches of government, we are prepared to make sure that
01:32we are not only ready for failure, i.e., if this gets worse, what do we need to be thinking about
01:38by summer in terms of peacekeeping forces or other questions if we're at a fully factionalized war
01:43and famine, but also are we prepared for success? Are we prepared that if we can get a breakthrough
01:50on peace, that we know how difficult governing is? All of us know it. And that is something I
01:57think the Sudanese people want to take on as a project, and they want a very inclusive process
02:02there. But until the war is over, it's very difficult to get to some of those questions. To me,
02:07this is also part of the solution and the strategy, which is I actually think that the negotiated
02:13settlement should be relatively narrow. It should not renegotiate things the Sudanese people have
02:18already stated are important to them about an inclusive civilian government, about integrating
02:23a reformed professional military underneath that government. Those have been things that have been
02:27negotiated before, but we need to be ready for how do we build those democratic institutions,
02:32how do we build out the kind of civil society, particularly with youth that make up the vast
02:36majority of the country, and would look forward to the conversations about how we ensure being
02:41ready for that opportunity. The role of foreign actors has been discussed already in terms of
02:49both those who have destabilized the situation, those who are seeking to bring stability to it.
02:55It would be challenging for anyone to defend the actions of those funding this fighting and
03:01genocidal activity on the basis of legitimate economic activities. I'd like for you to clarify
03:08for the public unclassified record which countries are working as stabilizer and which
03:13are working as destabilizers in Sudan at this moment. So I realize I didn't answer your Congo
03:21part of the question, but let me answer this so it doesn't look like I'm dodging that and can come up
03:24to the question or whichever preference of sequence. Yeah, go ahead. Okay. Synthesize
03:29them if you like, but please do get to the question about stabilizers and destabilizers.
03:35So in terms of lessons from the Democratic Republic of Congo, I'll tell you a negative
03:40lesson and a positive lesson. I have said that this conflict is starting to look too much like
03:46the DRC in the 90s in the sense that you have many ethnic populations inside Sudan that also
03:52overlap with populations in neighboring countries. And it's quite easy as this conflict becomes more
03:57ethnic and polarized in nature that it's harder and harder for neighboring countries not to be
04:01pulled in either directly into the fighting or facing destabilizing elements in their own
04:07country. So I think one lesson is that we need to end this before we get to a point where we are
04:14into not a two-sided war, but something that could become a seven, eight, nine-sided war.
04:18And related to that, I think it's going to be very important that we have a medium-term future
04:24for those who are currently fighting. For some, that will be an integration into the professional
04:29military. For others, we know that if we can find the kind of economic opportunities that
04:34make people feel invested in a future Sudan, a stronger, more democratic Sudan, that that is
04:41going to be a much more promising path forward than if people feel like they primarily want to
04:47continue to identify with their armed affiliations as we've seen in the DRC. In this case, I think
04:54we've seen many of the countries across Africa, from Kenya up to Egypt, be very constructive in
05:01reinforcing the importance of ending the war. Those that share a border with the country,
05:07I think, have been able to communicate, not just to each other, but to golf actors and others,
05:13that this war could consume everybody. So in addition, again, to the kind of humanitarian
05:18and human rights arguments we've made about the need to stop this war, I think there's been a
05:22very strong realpolitik, you know, pro-stability argument that has come from many of the actors.
05:29I think we're seeing the African Union and IGAD play a very constructive role in trying to ensure
05:34that there is the proper multilateral and African leadership on calling for that.
05:39We appreciate that the Saudis have agreed to host talks, and not just host talks, but have a more
05:44inclusive set of co-facilitators that we think collectively has enough leverage to compel the
05:50two sides to act. And we are hoping that we lock in the further details for those talks
05:57as we go forward. As I said, we've seen some actions from the United Nations that are positive
06:03in terms of the Ramadan ceasefire resolution, even though it was not respected, was at least
06:07a step toward showing that the UN is taking this more seriously, as was the expert panel.
06:13We certainly have felt like a number of countries in the region have been pouring fuel on the fire
06:19at key areas. Certainly there's been documentation in terms of the UAE's role, but also the question
06:25about Iran and open source reporting in other areas. And we think that this is, it's very
06:31important that people understand this not as an opportunity to try to drive wedges and fissures,
06:38but to try to be part of a peace process. You mentioned the UAE. What is, what's
06:43motivating their interest in this situation? Well, we can take that up, but I think what I'll
06:50say is what should be motivating them is that destabilizing Sudan will be something that has
06:58very negative repercussions for the region, and even for how they, their interest in the region,
07:06including what we've seen as an increase in some of the Islamist extremist elements that like to
07:11take advantage of a fractured or failing state. And we think it's important to understand that
07:16there will be growing consequences for the atrocities of the RSF and those who have been
07:22connected to them in terms of their motivations more broadly. We can talk about that or our
07:28opinions of that going forward, but I think what's clear is they have committed to the peace talks.
07:34They have committed to negotiating in good faith, and we believe that we can get to a point
07:40where we can be partners in a peaceful resolution in Sudan. You don't want to offer
07:44an assessment of their motivation today? I would say beyond the fact that, you know, we understand
07:53that everyone in the region has interests in the stability of the port and the economic development
08:00of the country. I think people probably have different versions of how that motivates them,
08:05but I think that what's clear is none of those things are well served by a protracted war,
08:10and therefore we need to make sure, and I think this is getting through to a number of key actors,
08:16that everybody can benefit from a stable Sudan and nobody gains,
08:19other than the extremists, from it falling apart.
08:23Thank you very much for your work and to members of your team. Mr. Perriello.
