- 2 years ago
The NBA is inching closer to a new, inevitable round of expansion, and based on what we have heard from league commissioner Adam Silver, it might not just be within the US and Canada. And while Mexico City might not be among the frontrunners, the growth of the league in popularity around the world will only continue to grow.
What will NBA expansion look like this time, and in the future? How is it different for fans and international media to enjoy the NBA we have now? And what else might the future of the Association look like, with the accelerating growth of the NBA continuing apace?
To talk over all of the above and his recent trip to cover the end of the Boston Celtics' 2023-24 season and the playoffs ahead of them, CLNS Media's "Celtics Lab" podcast linked up with British Basketball League and Give Me Sport's Josh Coyne.
To get a bead on the international future of the NBA (and the Celtics in the first round), make sure you don't miss this special bonus episode of the pod.
The Celtics Lab podcast is brought to you by Prize Picks.
If you enjoy this pod, check out the "How Bout Them Celtics," "First to the Floor," and the many other New England sports podcasts available on the CLNS Media network.
What will NBA expansion look like this time, and in the future? How is it different for fans and international media to enjoy the NBA we have now? And what else might the future of the Association look like, with the accelerating growth of the NBA continuing apace?
To talk over all of the above and his recent trip to cover the end of the Boston Celtics' 2023-24 season and the playoffs ahead of them, CLNS Media's "Celtics Lab" podcast linked up with British Basketball League and Give Me Sport's Josh Coyne.
To get a bead on the international future of the NBA (and the Celtics in the first round), make sure you don't miss this special bonus episode of the pod.
The Celtics Lab podcast is brought to you by Prize Picks.
If you enjoy this pod, check out the "How Bout Them Celtics," "First to the Floor," and the many other New England sports podcasts available on the CLNS Media network.
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SportsTranscript
00:00 [MUSIC PLAYING]
00:03 Welcome into the Celtics Lab podcast.
00:11 I am not your usual host, Dr. Justin Quinn.
00:14 Cam and Alex are taking a day off for this one.
00:18 But we are, shall we say, traversing borders,
00:24 both in the theme of this particular special episode
00:28 of Celtics Lab, as well as in the execution of it.
00:33 And it brings its own challenges,
00:35 which is one of the things we're going to talk about.
00:36 But we actually started off not only getting the time,
00:39 but the day wrong, depending on which one of us
00:41 you're talking about, which is just one of the things
00:43 that you have to do to cover the NBA is understanding time
00:49 zones, which are not as easy to do as you might think.
00:53 Josh is our guest, Josh Coyne of the British Basketball League
00:57 and Give Me Sport.
00:58 He is also one of the founding members of Celtics Lab
01:02 way back when it was the Celtics Life podcast.
01:04 Welcome to the pod.
01:06 No, thanks very much for having me again, JQ.
01:08 And yeah, like I said, like you mentioned, sorry,
01:12 you got the day wrong.
01:13 I got the hour wrong.
01:14 But we're here, and that's the most important part.
01:16 It's great to be back on the pod.
01:19 From what I remember, I have some demons
01:21 to exercise, because the last time I was on the Celtics Lab
01:24 podcast, I remember backing Jonas Falunculus
01:28 to be a key player in a tournament
01:30 he wasn't even playing in.
01:31 So I've got some work to do today.
01:33 All right, well, I mean, I've definitely--
01:36 I mean, I can't even remember the name of the prospect.
01:39 But I have had some much worse takes,
01:41 so don't worry about that.
01:43 We all have.
01:43 We all have.
01:45 But I would say it doesn't get much worse than sort
01:47 of backing a player who's not even going to be playing.
01:50 I mean, it happens.
01:54 This episode of the Celtics Lab podcast
01:55 is brought to you by PrizePix, the exclusive fantasy
01:58 basketball partner of the Celtics--
02:01 excuse me, the CLNS Media Network.
02:02 If you enjoy this pod, catch out--
02:04 excuse me, check out the How 'Bout Them Celtics,
02:06 First to the Floor, and many other New England sports
02:08 podcasts available on the CLNS Media Network.
02:12 On this episode, we're going to talk about the NBA outside
02:17 of the United States and Canada, more NBA
02:21 inside the United States and Canada, prospectively,
02:26 possibly even adding the NBA abroad, and like we said,
02:29 covering the league from afar.
02:32 But before we get into all that, tell us a little bit about you
02:35 and how you got into covering the sport from the United
02:39 Kingdom.
02:40 Yeah, so for those who may not know,
02:43 the way that maybe soccer is in the US,
02:48 basketball is generally sort of an underappreciated sport.
02:51 Traditionally in Britain.
02:52 So when I was younger, certainly people who liked basketball
02:56 seemed to be a member of some sort of shadow cult.
03:00 But I was lucky enough to grow up with two parents who
03:02 played basketball, so I was always around the game
03:05 from an amateur level.
03:08 So I always had a ball in my hands during every halftime.
03:12 So a lot of rec league atmosphere that I grew up in.
03:15 But as a byproduct of that, my dad
03:19 got into the NBA, of course, because that's the standard.
03:22 And due to his Irish roots, that ended up sort of tying itself
03:27 to the Boston Celtics.
03:28 So yeah, Mr. Quinn, Mr. Coyne.
03:31 And here we are.
03:32 So then I became--
03:34 obviously, when I got into my teens,
03:36 leading up to when they made the run in the 2007-2008
03:40 championship, my enthusiasm only grew.
03:43 And then it's been a long, lonely road since then.
03:47 As a hardcore Celtics supporter, but then, as you know,
03:51 because you contributed as well, I
03:53 started contributing towards not only Celtics life,
03:57 but also Double Clutch UK, which was certainly
04:00 one of the first consistent blogs over here in the UK.
04:05 It's actually grown enormously since then.
04:09 But in terms of creating original material
04:12 based on the NBA and the surrounding culture,
04:14 I would say that Double Clutch were sort of leaders in that.
04:18 So I started contributing to that.
04:20 And then since then, I've gone on
04:21 to write for all sorts of publications
04:24 and occasionally appear with you guys.
04:28 So one of the things that is a challenge when
04:31 you cover the NBA from abroad is the distance.
04:35 And the distance can have a variety of effects.
04:38 We've already talked about a few of them
04:39 in terms of getting us together.
04:41 But in terms of even watching games,
04:43 I constantly have to deal with half the year,
04:45 I'm one hour different from the East Coast.
04:48 And the other half of the year, I
04:49 am two hours different, which requires a conversation
04:52 explaining time zones to people sometimes.
04:55 And that is really not even that big of a deal.
04:58 Tell us about how you have to be an NBA fan
05:02 and what different problems you have
05:06 in terms of covering the league from the United Kingdom.
05:09 Well, when I was younger, of course,
05:12 priorities were different.
05:15 And it was a case of staying up.
05:20 I mean, on average, the games would start at midnight,
05:22 go to like 2.30, maybe 3 AM.
05:27 And there was a lot of late nights watching the Celtics,
05:30 even like real sicko hours where you're like,
05:33 it's a regular season game against the Washington
05:36 Wizards, and you're watching it despite it having
05:38 no major outcome on your life into the early hours.
05:41 Of course, as I've gotten older, that has changed a little bit.
05:44 And I have taken to avoiding spoilers
05:49 and watching games first thing in the morning.
05:51 So before I get up and do anything else,
05:53 I'm going in, put my phone to the side,
05:55 and watching the game.
05:57 One effect, by the way, that that has
05:59 is that you forget how long NBA games are
06:02 when you can't skip through.
06:03 So when you're actually watching,
06:05 you're just blown away by the timeouts
06:08 because you totally forget how much they draw it out.
06:12 But yeah, you're right.
06:13 The challenges are mainly like having
06:17 to watch in the early hours of the morning.
06:20 And a byproduct of that is it's funny
06:26 because it has a knock-on effect.
06:28 So the time difference has also sort of decided
06:32 who basketball fans over here tend to follow.
06:37 So generally, East Coast teams are massively favored
06:40 because of the times.
06:41 So, you know, of course there are plenty of Lakers fans
06:45 because they seem to pop up anywhere.
06:48 But, you know, there's a lot of people
06:50 who maybe went to vacation in Orlando
06:53 to go to Disney World from over here.
06:55 Quite a lot.
06:56 So there's a lot of Orlando Magic fans,
06:58 probably more than you would expect.
07:01 The Knicks fans because everyone goes on vacation
07:03 to New York for some sightseeing.
07:06 And then Celtics is quite a heavy contingent
07:08 of the UK basketball fans.
07:12 But yeah, it has an effect on my sleeping pattern
07:15 massively over the years.
07:17 But I think the time difference also has affected
07:19 sort of the way that UK fan culture looks
07:23 and how heavily East Coast favoring it is.
07:27 - So another issue that we have to deal with,
07:29 both of us, is the distance in terms of covering the league.
07:34 I get one game, maybe two games a year
07:40 for NBA Mexico City games.
07:42 And then you guys tend to get either NBA Paris
07:44 or NBA London.
07:45 So usually one game a year.
07:47 Like what else, what other challenges do you have
07:51 trying to cover the NBA from an entirely different continent?
07:55 - Yeah, I mean, there are natural things such as,
07:59 you know, the absolute best case scenario
08:03 of building a relationship that is consistent
08:06 with anybody within the game,
08:08 of course, is going to be over Zoom.
08:10 Obviously, you know, we could tend to sway towards
08:14 EuroLeague and things like that.
08:16 However, if you're an NBA purist
08:19 or a very NBA specific journalist or writer,
08:23 the relationships you're gonna build
08:24 are usually over calls like this.
08:27 Or, you know, email, you know.
08:29 But in terms of proximity to the game,
08:32 so for example, we'll cover sort of
08:34 what I experienced last week.
08:36 But that is just beyond the realm of possibility
08:39 as a regular situation.
08:41 You know, that ability to just be in a place that matters
08:46 at the right time is somewhat impossible
08:51 from so far away, of course.
08:53 So yeah, there's certain benefits
08:55 that come from the proximity aspect
08:57 and the way you could build relationships
09:00 with people that matter and inform your journalism
09:03 when you're, you know, thousands of miles away.
09:08 - Yeah, if you think--
09:09 - Seems like an obvious statement.
09:10 - Yeah, no, totally.
09:11 But I mean, like, to live it is a lot different
09:14 than to think about it.
09:16 You guys covering the Celtics beat from Boston,
09:18 you don't know how good you have it.
09:21 That said, if you think a Celtics ticket is expensive,
09:24 add a plane ticket and a hotel room to that cost
09:27 and whew, you just did that.
09:29 Tell me about it.
09:30 - Yeah, yeah.
09:32 So I've done it plenty of times, actually.
09:34 I mean, this is one of the less pricey times for sure,
09:38 because I was lucky enough to cover the game for Hoops Fix,
09:41 the UK basketball publication.
09:43 But in previous visits, definitely.
09:47 I mean, you're paying for a vacation
09:51 on top of major sports games.
09:54 You know, that's a pricey trip.
09:56 Doesn't matter how you try and keep costs down.
09:58 NBA games are not getting any cheaper, certainly.
10:03 And the other part of that though,
10:05 is that if you are a fan that's coming over
10:07 from the UK to the Celtics,
10:10 you're also gonna wanna maximize your experience.
10:13 So like, you're not paying for nosebleeds,
10:16 if you're lucky enough or you're in a position to do so,
10:20 you're not paying for nosebleeds
10:22 because you need to maximize the return.
10:24 So it just gets more and more expensive
10:25 once you're actually overseas,
10:28 you know, once you're state side.
10:30 But in terms of covering the game,
10:33 of course, there's elements where I obviously
10:39 had to just weigh up the labor of love
10:42 with the professional capacity.
10:44 So I paid for a vacation where I could work as a journalist.
10:48 That was what last week was.
10:51 And that has its pros and cons, of course.
10:54 - So in your trip, did you see anything good or bad
10:58 that influences your opinion
11:01 of the playoff series we were about to see?
11:03 - Well, it's an interesting question
11:08 because when I was there,
11:11 it was the Knicks game
11:12 when they were quite severely underwhelming.
11:15 So it would be quite easy to be caught up
11:19 in a loss like that so close to the playoffs
11:22 with the full lineup on the court.
11:26 However, I would say the biggest takeaway
11:28 actually is the stay ready crew.
11:30 And the way that they responded,
11:32 I know that it was Charlotte
11:34 and the game was inconsequential,
11:35 but you can look at that both ways.
11:38 Inconsequential games where you show up,
11:41 you know, and the fact that they are playing for nothing
11:43 and they still show up and blow a team out,
11:45 that's almost just as important
11:48 as being able to sort of like grind games out
11:50 that don't matter, if you know what I mean.
11:52 So I think the biggest takeaway actually
11:55 was the second game that I was in Boston for,
11:57 which was the Charlotte Hornets blowout
11:59 where Peyton Pritchard had the game of his life
12:02 and everyone was able to step up.
12:04 I think that seeing how dialed in they were
12:09 was the biggest takeaway in games that,
12:13 you know, of course, during my trip,
12:15 I would have preferred
12:16 if there were some stakes to the games, of course.
12:19 But there was a real air of seriousness around the arena.
12:24 There was no one patting themselves on the back
12:30 after a clinch in the number one seed.
12:32 There was a real sort of locked in vibe
12:35 in the camp itself between, you know, the players.
12:39 Nobody was slacking.
12:40 Practice time was still being taken very seriously.
12:44 And Joe Mazzuolo was his characteristically spiky self.
12:49 And it's good to see that he doesn't change
12:51 when things are looking good.
12:53 - Yeah, I'm convinced he is trying to take
12:57 the ornery Popovich mantle for the next generation
13:01 of the coach you don't want to talk to
13:04 because you're afraid you're going to become
13:06 the topic of the question
13:08 rather than your actual question.
13:10 Which is great, 'cause somebody needs to be that guy, right?
13:13 - Yeah, I mean, look, I shout out, by the way,
13:16 to usual host and co-host Cam Tapper-Tobac
13:20 because he really showed me the ropes
13:22 because I wasn't quite aware of how,
13:25 to what extent the TD Garden is like
13:27 Pan's labyrinth to get around.
13:28 Yeah, so, I mean, I was covering Brooklyn
13:33 the week before as well.
13:34 And whilst, yes, there are many cons
13:36 to the Brooklyn Mets basketball experience,
13:39 very straightforward layout
13:41 to get your head around in comparison.
13:43 But yeah, he was, I've totally forgotten
13:49 what you said a moment ago, remind me.
13:51 - We were talking about Joe's orneryness.
13:55 - Sorry, yeah, yeah.
13:56 And he also informed me that,
13:58 so the big thing about Joe is that,
14:02 and I totally understand this,
14:03 is that he favors questions
14:05 that aren't generic basketball questions
14:07 and they're sort of asking him something
14:09 he hasn't already uttered 500 times,
14:11 which, you know, that's human nature, of course.
14:13 That's exactly what you would want.
14:15 So I went in with that angle,
14:17 but what ended up happening was that
14:20 Joe actually ended up spoiling a soccer score for me
14:24 as part of his answer to my question.
14:30 Now, the backstory of that is,
14:33 so I'm a Liverpool football fan
14:35 and Liverpool had a big European game
14:39 around the time I went to the press conferences.
14:42 And I just, I made a proactive decision to avoid the score
14:45 so I could watch the highlights
14:46 when I got back to the hotel room that night.
14:49 So Joe quite literally did spoil the score
14:52 that I was actively avoiding
14:54 by telling me that Liverpool lost.
14:56 So from the video I posted that you probably saw online,
15:01 when he tells me that,
15:02 you can sort of hear the disappointment in my voice
15:06 when I say, "Thank you."
15:07 - Let's talk a little bit about
15:14 that actual post-season series coming up in the first round.
15:17 We don't know who it is at this time.
15:20 By the time this gets out,
15:21 we will be very close to the game that decides it.
15:25 But first of all, Bulls or Heat,
15:28 which would you prefer more for Boston
15:31 in the first round and why?
15:33 - Well, there's plenty of reasons to say that,
15:37 I guess that Miami wouldn't be favorable
15:40 because they have been a bit of a spiky team for Boston,
15:45 bit of a bogey team over the years
15:47 that have caused them issues.
15:48 However, a large part of that is Jimmy Butler, isn't it?
15:51 I think that injury totally changes the picture.
15:54 I think Boston should be confident
15:56 against both of these potential first round opponents.
16:00 I think that actually in terms of a draw,
16:03 this is about as favorable as it gets,
16:05 certainly with the Jimmy injury.
16:08 So at the moment, because of the Jimmy injury,
16:12 I would say that Boston should be looking at Heat
16:15 as the favorable matchup.
16:17 What about you?
16:17 - Probably the Heat for the same reasons,
16:22 but I like how Boston has played
16:24 against the Bulls this season.
16:26 And honestly, as much as they are probably
16:31 the better team at the moment,
16:33 I just feel like the Celtics
16:35 really do have their number this year.
16:36 They have not in past years, as we would like to forget.
16:39 This version of the Bulls, I am not at all afraid of.
16:45 And honestly, the only reason I have any concerns at all
16:48 with Heat is Spoh, right?
16:50 And he's not injured, so he's gonna be there.
16:55 - You're right, that's a big factor.
16:56 I mean, we've watched the game long enough
17:00 to know how little the regular season can matter
17:03 during the post-season.
17:06 - I just don't want multiple games,
17:09 like I don't want a six game series,
17:11 which I don't think there's any way either of these teams
17:13 beat Boston, but if one of the team
17:15 can get more than one game, it's gonna be the Heat.
17:18 - Yeah, they've swept both teams, right,
17:21 throughout the regular season.
17:22 - I think, wait, did they lose to the Bulls?
17:24 I can't remember, if not, they only lost once.
17:26 I'm pretty sure they did.
17:27 - I'm fairly confident they're free now against both.
17:30 You know what, you're sort of changing my mind a little bit
17:34 with the Spoh thing, because if there's anybody
17:37 that can make something happen when it matters
17:40 with a sort of limited roster, it's probably him.
17:42 I just think that maybe with Jimmy removed,
17:47 the talent is superior in Chicago's roster right now.
17:51 - Oh, I think it is.
17:52 I just think that Miami has a better idea
17:55 of how to pick at the scabs that have always bothered
17:57 the Celtics in this iteration.
17:59 - Yeah, that's the best, that's the perfect way to put it.
18:02 It would be, I mean, regardless of the opponent,
18:05 either way, it would be a totally scandalous upset
18:08 for it even to go to six, I believe.
18:12 - I think so too.
18:13 - All right, let's pause the podcast
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19:00 Okay, back to the podcast.
19:03 - We are basically in agreement
19:09 that this is not going to be too much of a challenge
19:11 for Boston to advance to the second round.
19:14 Is there anyone else in the East
19:16 that gives you any level of concern?
19:19 - Well, it depends on health, doesn't it?
19:23 If they ended up facing Philadelphia,
19:26 I always tend to go for the most simple answer,
19:31 and that is, you know, depending on the health of the guys
19:35 who can destroy you single-handedly.
19:37 And I think that, you know,
19:39 Joel Embiid is a bad matchup for anybody.
19:41 So if that is possible,
19:43 then I think Philadelphia are worrying.
19:46 If Giannis was a, is,
19:49 I haven't totally kept up to date with his status.
19:52 - I think they're talking four to six weeks,
19:54 something like that, that he's expected to be out,
19:57 and that would have him back,
19:59 but maybe not immediately in the second round, so.
20:04 - Yeah, so, I mean, the really simple answer is
20:10 if Giannis and Embiid are both healthy,
20:13 it would be Philadelphia and Milwaukee,
20:14 regardless of standings.
20:16 - Yep.
20:17 - That I would be the most worried about,
20:18 just because I don't necessarily feel as though,
20:21 regardless of how fluid this Boston basketball team is,
20:25 I don't think they necessarily have an answer
20:27 because I don't think anybody has to those guys.
20:30 Obviously, they've got guys who can limit them,
20:33 Al Horford being the primary guy.
20:37 But even when you watch Chris Tapps
20:41 playing against a big body like Joel Embiid,
20:44 you're like, doesn't really matter how long you are,
20:47 you're gonna get moved by this absolute unit,
20:49 and he can do everything on the court.
20:51 So I would say Philadelphia probably is the one
20:54 that is worrying me most naturally offhand.
20:56 But if they can get Giannis healthy,
20:59 there's just, you can't deny the star power
21:02 of Lillard and Attentacombe.
21:04 - Magic had me a little concerned
21:07 that they could be a longer series as well.
21:08 I don't think any of these teams should beat Boston,
21:12 barring the most bizarre things we've ever seen,
21:15 like as bizarre or more bizarre than the Miami series
21:18 where they shot just lights out for the entire series
21:20 while Boston basically couldn't hit anything.
21:23 It would take something like that
21:24 for one of those teams to advance,
21:26 and I just don't think that's very likely,
21:27 particularly with this improved roster.
21:31 Before we move on, who do you think's coming out of the West?
21:34 - I think Denver.
21:37 And I would say that if you are still talking
21:42 about matchups for Boston to be worried about,
21:44 it seems really obvious to back them,
21:45 but it's the only team that has caused
21:50 Boston serious issues consistently this year.
21:54 It's because of Nikola Jokic.
21:58 I feel like I would be incredibly worried,
22:00 and if Boston were to make it to the finals,
22:02 I would just be crossing my fingers as a Boston fan
22:06 that somebody can do some damage to Denver
22:09 before they face Boston, for sure.
22:12 I wouldn't be particularly worried about Thunder
22:15 because they haven't given us a reason to be.
22:17 I mean, as much as we're, you know,
22:19 Boston are really proud of the way
22:21 that they played in the regular season,
22:23 they also haven't proven anything
22:26 that's gonna hang a banner.
22:27 So the age factor, like, is a big part of it.
22:32 They're a fantastic regular season basketball team,
22:34 but we just need to see proof
22:35 that they can cause some damage when it matters.
22:40 - I mean, the West is totally loaded, isn't it?
22:42 It's crazy.
22:43 You can look all the way down to the play-in
22:47 and still think, okay, they could still come out of the West
22:51 because, you know, a team that's in the play-in
22:54 has LeBron James on it, you know?
22:56 So for me, it's Denver primarily,
23:00 but I think there's a multitude of teams
23:02 that could cause Boston trouble.
23:04 - Yeah, I'm not crazy about the idea of Oklahoma City
23:07 coming out for the same reasons.
23:08 They have not been easy for Boston to play for some time now
23:11 and I don't think it's gonna get any easier for them
23:13 when the stakes are that high
23:14 should they actually meet on a stage that big.
23:16 But there is a good case that them being such a young team,
23:21 they never get there this season in the first place.
23:23 Let's jump into the lab portion.
23:27 This is just gonna be a conversation
23:30 that we've had many times,
23:32 usually around this time of year, maybe a little bit later,
23:35 when the off season is really here.
23:39 This is, so we've been a holding pattern
23:42 for NBA expansion for a long time.
23:45 First, we heard that it might be coming.
23:48 Then we heard that we need the new CBA to be done
23:52 as long as the new, as well as the new TV deal
23:55 to be taken care of.
23:56 We are on the precipice of those things
23:59 all being squared away.
24:01 And Adam Silver recently addressed the media
24:05 and discussed a bit more.
24:07 And this is the first time
24:08 that he has actually gone into any kind of detail
24:10 beyond some very generic stuff that fuels a lot of dreams,
24:15 but doesn't really help eliminate any others as well.
24:19 And we quite have not gotten to that point exactly yet,
24:22 but now we are starting to get some concrete information.
24:26 He's said that no city has a lock on a deal,
24:29 which surprised me considering Seattle.
24:31 I wanna know, where do you think
24:35 they are going to expand?
24:37 And then I want you to tell me where they could expand.
24:40 - I mean, Seattle is the one that's
24:46 on everybody's lips, of course.
24:47 But I think that there's a lot of like,
24:50 just nostalgia attached to that.
24:52 I think that, you know, nothing looks cooler
24:55 than the original branding of the Seattle Supersonics.
24:57 And I think a lot of people just wanna see that again.
25:00 Of course, there's a huge basketball loving city
25:03 that has an enormous sort of basketball shaped chasm
25:07 in there right now, and that's Seattle.
25:10 My main answer would be,
25:12 I'd love Mexico City just for you.
25:14 - Thank you.
25:16 - I would love, for the exact reasons we talked about,
25:19 I'd love you to have proximity to NBA basketball
25:22 on your doorstep.
25:25 But you're the, I mean, you're the expert.
25:26 I've read all of your pieces about this over the years
25:29 and love them.
25:31 So, I mean, what are some of the other primary contenders?
25:34 - Well, Las Vegas is frequently cited.
25:38 And as much as it's a smaller media market,
25:42 is probably going to have 100% attendance
25:46 every day of the year,
25:47 being the destination city that it is.
25:49 So maybe they don't make quite as much money
25:52 from media rights deals as they do from concessions
25:55 and door and all that good stuff.
25:57 So I can see the vision of that.
26:00 You know, as well as anyone,
26:01 why I always tell Mexico City,
26:03 because it's not only a city with roughly 30 million people
26:08 in the metropolitan area to attend games
26:13 and enough disposable income, I think,
26:15 for the price point that they typically charge
26:19 for NBA Mexico games,
26:20 which themselves are a special event
26:22 and probably should be higher.
26:24 It's also the media market of an entire country, right?
26:29 You get 120 Mexicans,
26:31 which is roughly double the population of Canada.
26:34 And we saw 30 million Canadians tuning in
26:37 when Toronto was in the NBA finals.
26:39 So you get an idea of what that can do.
26:41 Plus- - So it'd be a good
26:42 nation's team, right?
26:44 - Yeah.
26:45 And it might even be Latin America's team
26:48 because you got the whole Spanish speaking market
26:52 of Latin America and Spain,
26:53 which might be more interested in paying attention
26:57 to a team based in Mexico City to consider.
27:01 So I think that if one of the several cities alluded to
27:06 by Silver in his conversation,
27:07 he didn't name any particular groups or cities
27:10 or anything like that,
27:11 but if they are one of them,
27:12 I actually do think that they have a pretty good chance
27:15 in terms of just profitability.
27:16 - Interesting.
27:18 I have a sort of offshoot question,
27:21 and that is how many countries would they need to expand to
27:24 to justify calling it the World Championship?
27:28 - Oh boy.
27:30 I think you would need to have at least two continents.
27:33 You can't be all on one continent
27:34 and call it a World Championship.
27:36 And I have a question for you.
27:39 Should we bring back that McDonald's,
27:43 I can't remember the exact name of it,
27:44 but it was a McDonald's sponsored thing that they did
27:47 in the 80s where they actually had exhibition games.
27:51 Should they have like a very short summer tournament?
27:55 It's like one game go home with like the best Euroleague team,
27:59 the best basketball Africa league team,
28:01 the best NBA team, et cetera, from around the world.
28:04 I mean, that would get eyeballs, right?
28:08 - Yeah, like an international club competition, right?
28:10 So like, yeah, I mean, absolutely it would get eyeballs.
28:14 You think about the excitement around the world.
28:18 I can't put my, I can't express my opinion
28:21 on like how much the Olympics and the FIBA World Cup
28:25 sort of weighs up in terms of people's excitement
28:27 in the US, but internationally, of course,
28:29 it's like the biggest part is the chance
28:32 to compete against the big dogs.
28:34 So I think, yeah, of course,
28:36 I mean, that sounds incredibly exciting.
28:38 And I also think that there would be some surprises
28:40 along the way because, you know,
28:43 Real Madrid and Barcelona's basketball team would,
28:46 you know, they'd compete.
28:47 There would be a middling team in the NBA perhaps.
28:50 And I think that, of course, you'd see some,
28:54 a bit more of the talent spread across internationally
28:57 if people got the chance to play
28:59 at that level against NBA teams.
29:01 So I think that it would add some parity
29:04 that maybe the NBA wouldn't even want though.
29:07 - Well, we won't call it the championship
29:10 so nobody's ego gets bruised.
29:11 It's just an exhibition game.
29:12 - Right, okay, yeah.
29:14 Well, I mean, that would definitely get eyeballs.
29:17 And I would personally love to see it.
29:20 - It must be difficult.
29:21 - In terms of expanding,
29:22 the interesting part is that a large part of it
29:26 is geography, right?
29:29 So the appetite for expansion is enormous in Europe.
29:34 There'd be plenty of investors
29:37 and there'd be plenty of fans ready to go to games
29:41 in Spain, France, Germany, probably the UK,
29:45 but it would take some convincing
29:46 because it's similarly to the United States of America.
29:51 They've got their set sports
29:54 and the media have chosen the sports
29:58 that are worthwhile covering
29:59 and basketball sits outside of that.
30:02 But it will be interesting to see,
30:08 I don't see it ever in my lifetime
30:13 there being an NBA expansion team in Europe.
30:15 What I do see is them doing what they do in the NFL
30:19 where they start including some games
30:21 as regular season quite regularly.
30:23 So of course, NBA Europe and NBA Paris happen,
30:28 but I can see it happening more regularly
30:30 where five or six or eight teams come over a year
30:35 and they will do like a, maybe a tour of Europe,
30:37 maybe, and they'll do multiple regular seasons across
30:41 to make it more worthwhile.
30:43 - I have a little bit of pushback because I disagree.
30:47 I think that the NBA is being a little silly about this
30:50 and that they don't need to necessarily worry as much
30:54 if they approach it the right way,
30:56 but they can't expand with one team to Europe,
30:59 maybe not even two, they might need three or four
31:02 at the same time, right?
31:03 And then you go over there
31:05 and then you play all of your games with those teams, right?
31:08 And the West Coast teams,
31:09 they never play like more than like exhibition level.
31:13 Like they come over maybe once every couple of years
31:16 and the East Coast teams
31:20 are the most common teams coming over, right?
31:24 So you wouldn't necessarily have everybody plays everybody
31:26 in the same kind of a way.
31:27 Everyone would play everyone eventually,
31:29 but you go over there and you play all of those games,
31:34 like eight games, if there's four teams minimum
31:38 to make it worth your while, right?
31:40 I think it could work then, but only then.
31:43 - Yeah, they would need to have a multitude
31:45 of European teams in place.
31:48 I hate to keep getting tied up in the semantics of it all,
31:51 but does it then become the World Basketball Association?
31:55 - It kind of does, right?
31:56 - Yeah.
31:57 - Which I know you got to get out of here, but-
32:00 - No, no, no, no, continue.
32:02 - Okay, I have another related thing.
32:07 And I think we're seeing more exhibition games
32:11 in like Abu Dhabi.
32:12 And my question to you, is this a preemptive move
32:18 to get the area in the NBA ecosystem
32:22 to prevent an LIV kind of style golf tournament
32:27 slash league being created where they can pay players
32:33 far beyond what the NBA is going to be willing,
32:35 at least now, to pay their players?
32:38 - Well, it'll be interesting to see what happens
32:42 because we're seeing that in soccer as well.
32:44 We're seeing it in football.
32:45 What's been interesting in recent years
32:52 is that certainly over the last summer,
32:54 there have been more and more like Saudi Arabian teams
32:56 that are buying the top stars,
32:58 or at least making massive offers
33:00 that are like quadrupling their salary
33:03 and really life-changing numbers.
33:06 But the interesting part of that
33:08 is what they started to get is end of career guys
33:13 who wanted a last paycheck, at the top level.
33:17 And even then, what they've experienced
33:20 is that the infrastructure is not prepared
33:22 for their arrival, and they ended up playing
33:25 against players that are worse than the guys they played
33:29 when they were high school age.
33:31 So it's been really interesting to see
33:33 which sports are being affected
33:36 by what people call sports washing
33:39 and what effect that's having.
33:43 And I don't necessarily know where Boston sits
33:47 within that sort of...
33:49 Sorry, did I say Boston?
33:52 I meant the NBA, right?
33:54 I don't know where the NBA sits within that
33:56 and how close they are to being threatened
33:59 by exterior forces.
34:01 Do you know anything about that?
34:03 - I haven't heard anything in your points
34:05 about the difficulty with football, soccer, to us gringos.
34:08 I think that that may have something to do with it, right?
34:12 Because it's a lot harder to create the infrastructure,
34:15 to create the teams that you would need
34:18 to actually have those kinds of players be interesting.
34:21 Otherwise, you're just really replicating
34:22 the Chinese Basketball Association,
34:24 which basically is using that model.
34:27 And it doesn't really have a whole lot of interest
34:30 outside of China, right?
34:31 So, I mean, yes, they could do something like that,
34:35 but if that's what it's going to end up being,
34:36 is it really worth putting your money into that
34:39 when you could just partner with the NBA,
34:41 which seems to be what the approach is at the moment?
34:43 So that's my suspicion.
34:45 - Yeah, that's interesting because that falls...
34:49 It seems as though, luckily for the NBA,
34:54 that all routes in basketball for growth
34:58 tend to still go through the United States.
35:01 So if you look at what the British Basketball League
35:03 has done, so British Basketball League,
35:05 in the grand scheme of the game, is a minnow.
35:10 And even the CEO would recognize that.
35:13 Sure, they've now got NBA talent playing.
35:15 There is a huge disparity across the league,
35:19 but they do have NBA talent playing
35:21 and they have a team in London
35:22 that's competing at the top of Europe.
35:26 And they're really making some waves.
35:28 And the women, shout out to the women,
35:29 they won the Euro Cup recently.
35:31 So there's definite progress to be made.
35:36 However, the first strategy
35:37 for the British Basketball League
35:39 was getting rights to show games in the United States,
35:43 which is fascinating to me, isn't it?
35:45 Like how to grow the British game
35:48 that's trying to create its own identity.
35:51 One of the main methods of growth
35:53 was engaging a US audience.
35:56 And if you think about the people
35:58 who are watching the British Basketball League
35:59 in the States, they are true basketball sickos
36:01 who are like tuning in in inconvenient times
36:06 to watch a level that is far below
36:10 what they usually see 82 games a year.
36:12 But yeah, I think we're a long way away
36:16 from all avenues not passing through the United States.
36:20 - You actually just touched on a subject
36:23 that I experienced here with the Capitanes
36:25 and like the local media does a decent job covering them,
36:29 but not like an NBA team.
36:31 There are not people there every night waiting in the scrum.
36:35 I mean, some nights there are,
36:36 particularly if it's like a bigger prospect
36:38 on an opposing team coming through,
36:41 or if they play the G League team
36:43 of a traditionally popular team in Mexico,
36:45 like the Bulls or the San Antonio Spurs.
36:48 But for the most part, the entire media ecosystem
36:52 does not exist, right, for the G League.
36:55 And we just saw with the Maine Celtics
36:57 that people can really get into these games
37:00 and they should get into them.
37:00 They're really good.
37:01 I go to them all the time and they're very entertaining.
37:04 Everything is there except for the media infrastructure.
37:07 So I think that that is another core element
37:11 that the NBA probably is considering,
37:13 but I think for any new growth of basketball on any level,
37:19 it requires the full infrastructure.
37:22 Like you can't just have people watching on TV.
37:24 You also have to have the people
37:25 who are mediating the experience for you
37:28 from the broadcast booth down to the media scrum.
37:31 - Yeah, bang on, totally right.
37:34 - Well, to get you out of here with one last question,
37:38 give me some predictions about the future of the NBA
37:41 in the short, medium and long-term,
37:43 whatever you want to consider that.
37:46 - It's, I mean, I'm just fascinated to see
37:51 what's going to happen with the sports betting stuff
37:53 because I think that there's a huge underbelly
37:56 that we're not aware of.
37:58 And I think that clamping down on a player
38:03 in the way that they already have with Jonte Porter,
38:05 I think that it's going to be fascinating
38:07 to see what is found out
38:09 and also how that moves the needle
38:11 in terms of punishment for players.
38:13 Because if you look at the public outrage
38:15 since his lifetime ban for sports betting
38:20 and the way that people have compared that
38:22 to those that are guilty of domestic abuse and violence,
38:26 I think that the standards in which they hold players
38:31 is going to intensify because player empowerment
38:36 and the importance of player image
38:40 has grown tenfold over the last decade.
38:42 And it's brilliant.
38:44 The way that players are being empowered
38:45 to build their identities and build their brand
38:48 has been nothing but great for the game, to be honest.
38:53 Of course, there are certain things
38:55 where players have abused that
38:58 to the detriment of their team,
39:00 but it's been tremendous to see that happen.
39:04 But at the same time,
39:07 I think that we're going to see sort of the league
39:12 clamp down in a way,
39:14 both from damaging public incidents,
39:20 such as the ones that are now being held
39:22 in the court of public opinion, rightfully so,
39:24 to sort of match the level of punishment
39:30 that they're giving players who hurt their pocket
39:32 like John Tay Porter did.
39:34 So I think from a wider league point of view,
39:37 I think that we're going to see
39:39 more people get banned from the league.
39:42 So that's my very grim prediction.
39:45 - I think you're right.
39:46 I think that we are going to also see
39:48 further professionalization of the sport.
39:51 I think the NCAA landscape is gonna become transformed.
39:56 I think that the growth of the G League
39:59 will eventually make something like relegation in the NBA,
40:03 a long time from now,
40:05 but eventually not as insane of a thing financially
40:09 as what we are dealing with in the moment.
40:12 It would never happen now, right?
40:13 I think there's gonna be a lot of borrowing
40:19 from your football, our soccer,
40:21 and basketball in both directions.
40:23 And I could see players being loaned
40:26 when a team wants to tank
40:28 rather than having to trade them.
40:31 I think we're gonna see some pretty interesting stuff.
40:33 And I think that the international nature of the sport
40:37 is gonna be playing a pretty big role in that.
40:40 - I mean, it makes sense, doesn't it?
40:42 The international reach has been enormous
40:45 over the last decades.
40:47 All the, the grand majority of the best players
40:49 are not American anymore.
40:51 But you're right.
40:53 I think that they are taking more and more influence
40:55 from what's good about the game of soccer.
40:59 And I think the most recent case that we saw of that
41:02 was the changes to the scheduling
41:04 on the last day of the NBA season.
41:06 So like they put every game either at three or six,
41:10 I believe.
41:11 And what that creates is this like,
41:17 'cause they do that in the Premier League, right?
41:18 So they do this whole,
41:20 everyone else's games have implication
41:24 on your final standings.
41:25 And they were lucky this year because that was the case.
41:27 There wasn't an insane amount of drama that happened.
41:31 So it didn't necessarily work.
41:32 But what could happen if they do this more often
41:35 where everybody's playing at the same time?
41:38 I think it creates really exciting moments
41:40 where you've got people like listening to the digital radio
41:44 in the arena waiting to hear the other game
41:46 whilst watching the other game.
41:48 You've got multi-screen, which is nothing more exciting,
41:50 especially if you're in a bar, having a couple of drinks,
41:53 you've got two screens you need to monitor.
41:56 I think that like they're trying to eventize
41:59 that everything is happening at once nature of the game.
42:03 So I think that that's definitely like a thing
42:06 that they're sort of pulling away from Premier League football.
42:09 - That is really interesting too,
42:11 because like one of the biggest complaints about the NBA
42:14 is there's too many games.
42:15 So if you kind of just make you pay attention
42:17 to a bunch of them at the same time,
42:19 it does kind of recreate the event in this event.
42:23 - Yeah, yeah, yeah.
42:24 No, you're totally right.
42:25 I mean, like, how am I supposed to spend like 24/7
42:29 caring about basketball?
42:31 But quite frankly, if you only really need to tune in
42:34 plus highlights for, you know,
42:38 two hours a couple of times a week,
42:40 then it makes a ton more sense.
42:42 I mean, it could create some very exciting moments.
42:47 - Very cool.
42:52 Well, Josh, where can we find your work
42:54 when you are not on here?
42:56 - So I actually write for the British Basketball League.
42:59 So just follow the league and follow their progress
43:02 'cause it's actually quite an exciting time
43:04 for the league and their growth.
43:06 I also write for Give Me Sport
43:09 and I just cover the NBA for them.
43:11 And then, you know, follow me on @poundcoin on x/twitter.
43:17 And it's usually some sort of meme nonsense,
43:23 but occasionally there'll be some fun stories to read.
43:27 - Very cool.
43:28 Well, do you miss a football show?
43:29 - Oh, listen to Chief Springs.
43:31 - Oh, of course, yeah.
43:32 Yeah, no, definitely.
43:34 You should, on Spotify, often.
43:36 The Celtics Lab podcast is brought to you by PrizePix,
43:41 the exclusive fantasy basketball partner
43:42 of the CLNS Media Network.
43:44 If you enjoyed this pod,
43:45 check out the "How 'Bout Them Celtics?"
43:47 first to the floor,
43:49 and many other New England sports podcasts
43:50 available on the CLNS Media Network.
43:53 And we are out of here.
43:55 Adios.
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