Amanpour & Co. - March 15, 2024
Haaretz columnist Dahlia Scheindlin discusses growing concerns over Israeli leadership within the country. Paul Simon and director Alex Gibney shine a light on Simon’s legendary career in the new documentary “Restless Dreams: The Music of Paul Simon.” Author Cass R. Sunstein explores the concept of habituation in his new book “Look Again: The Power of Noticing What Was Always There.”
Transcript
00:00♪
00:03>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, WELCOME TO
00:06"AMANPOUR & CO."
00:06HERE IS WHAT'S COMING UP.
00:09>> THE NETANYAHU COALITION NO
00:11LONGER FITS THE NEEDS OF ISRAEL
00:14AFTER OCTOBER 7th.
00:15>> ISRAEL'S LEADERSHIP FACES
00:20CRITICISM ELECFROM ABROAD AND
00:23PROTESTS AT HOME.
00:24>>> I WANT TO FOLLOW THE MUSIC.
00:26YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT YOU ARE
00:27GOING TO FIND ALONG THE WAY.
00:28>> THE MUSIC OF PAUL SIMON.
00:31A NEW DOCUMENTARY CHARTS THE
00:34CAREER OF THE SINGER/SONGWRITER.
00:41WE SPEAK TO ALEX GIBNEY AND THE
00:43MAN HIMSELF.
00:44>>> IT'S IMPORTANT TO SEE THINGS
00:47WITH BRIGHTNESS AND LIGHT.
00:49"LOOK AGAIN, THE POWER OF
00:53NOTICING WHAT WAS ALWAYS THERE,"
00:55AUTHOR CASS SUNSTEIN TALKS ABOUT
00:57HIS NEW BOOK, HOW GRATITUDE CAN
01:00MAKE US HAPPIER.
01:01♪
01:20>> "AMANPOUR & CO." IS MADE
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01:23CANDACE KING WEIR.
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01:27AND MICKEY STRAUS.
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01:32THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO
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01:48ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY
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01:50AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS
01:51STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
01:55THANK YOU.
02:02>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.
02:04I'M BIANNA GOLODRYGA.
02:09ISRAEL'S GOVERNMENT IS CALLING
02:11FOR CHANGE.
02:11PRESIDENT BIDEN REACTED TO A
02:12CALL FOR A CHANGE IN THE ISRAELI
02:15GOVERNMENT MADE BY CHUCK
02:16SCHUMER.
02:19TAKE A LISTEN.
02:21>> AT THIS CRITICAL JUNCTURE, I
02:24BELIEVE A NEW ELECTION IS THE
02:27ONLY WAY TO ALLOW FOR A HEALTHY
02:29AND OPPOSITION-MAKING PROCESS
02:31ABOUT THE FUTURE OF ISRAEL.
02:33AT A TIME WHEN SO MANY ISRAELIS
02:36HAVE LOST THEIR CONFIDENCE IN
02:38THE VISION AND DIRECTION OF
02:39THEIR GOVERNMENT.
02:41>> HE MADE A GOOD SPEECH.
02:43I THINK HE EXPRESSED A SERIOUS
02:46CONCERN THAT'S SHARED NOT ONLY
02:47BY HIM BUT BY MANY AMERICANS.
02:49>> IN TEL AVIV, RELATIVES OF
02:51HOSTAGES GATHERED OUTSIDE
02:53MILITARY HEADQUARTERS.
02:54ISRAEL CONSIDERS THE LATEST
02:55HAMAS RESPONSE TO A HOSTAGE
02:58RELEASE.
02:58THE PROTEFSTERS CALLED ON
03:01NETANYAHU TO MAKE A DECISION
03:03THAT WILL SAVE OUR BELOVED ONES.
03:05THE FIRST BATCH OF HUMANITARIAN
03:08AID HAS REACHED GAZA.
03:15MY FIRST GUEST TONIGHT REPORTS
03:16THAT MOST ISRAELIS WANT EARLY
03:24ELECTIONS.
03:25DAHLIA SHCHEINDLIN IS AN AUTHOR.
03:30SHE JOINS ME NOW FROM TEL AVIV.
03:32THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.
03:35LET ME FIRST GET YOU TO RESPOND
03:39TO THE VERY BLUNT MESSAGE FROM
03:41THE SENATE MAJORITY LEADER,
03:43CHUCK SCHUMER, YESTERDAY.
03:46NOT SOME FRINGE LEFTIST MEMBER
03:49BUT A SUPPORTER OF THE STATE OF
03:51ISRAEL AND HAS BEEN SO SINCE
03:55OCTOBER 7th.
03:57NONETHELESS, COMING OUT
03:58YESTERDAY, CALLING FOR AN EARLY
04:01ELECTION IN ISRAEL.
04:02THE RESPONSE FROM THE
04:05REPUBLICANS HAS BEEN THAT THIS
04:06IS NOT THE TIME NOR THE PLACE
04:09FOR AMERICAN POLITICIANS TO BE
04:12INTERVENING OR SPEAKING OUT
04:14AGAINST ANOTHER DEMOCRACY,
04:15ESPECIALLY A CLOSE ALLY.
04:16I'M CURIOUS HOW THIS HAS ALL
04:19FALLEN IN ISRAEL, WHAT THE
04:22RESPONSE HAS BEEN THERE.
04:23>> THE QUESTION IS, WHO IS
04:24RESPONDING?
04:25I THINK THERE'S A HIGH
04:26EXPECTATION THAT THE ISRAELI
04:29PUBLIC WILL BE DEVASTATED BY
04:30THIS AND RISE UP.
04:31I THINK THAT'S A MISTAKE.
04:32THE QUESTION IS HOW IT'S LANDING
04:33WITH THE POLITICAL ELITES.
04:35THE ISRAELI PUBLIC IS TOO BUSY
04:37DEMONSTRATING ON BEHALF OF THE
04:39HOSTAGES.
04:39THE POLITICAL ELITES HAVE NO
04:42ILLUSIONS ABOUT WHO CHUCK
04:43SCHUMER IS.
04:44HE IS NOT ONLY AN ALLY OF ISRAEL
04:47SINCE OCTOBER 7th, HE HAS BEEN
04:48FOR DECADES.
04:50HE IS A FIXTURE IN THE
04:52PRO-ISRAEL COMMUNITY, ESPECIALLY
04:53AMONG DEMOCRATS.
04:54I THINK THERE'S CONCERN ABOUT
04:56IT.
04:56HE ALSO -- SCHUMER USED LANGUAGE
04:58THAT WAS VERY STRONG.
05:00IT WASN'T JUST ABOUT THAT ONE
05:03PARTICULAR ASPECT OF CALLING FOR
05:05ELECTIONS.
05:05HE WAS SAYING, AMERICAN JEWS --
05:07HE REPRESENTS AMERICAN JEWS IN
05:10TERMS OF HIS CRITIQUE WHERE
05:11ISRAEL IS GOING.
05:12HE SAID THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT
05:14HAS BIGOTS IN IT.
05:15HE SAID REAR WAS AT RISK OF
05:18BECOMING A PARIAH STATE.
05:23HE SUPPORTED A TWO-STATE
05:25SOLUTION.
05:25THEY ARE STRONG SIGNALS TO THE
05:27ISRAELI POLITICAL ELITE.
05:28I THINK THAT WE WOULDN'T
05:30NECESSARILY HAVE KNOWN IF THAT
05:31WAS GOING TO HAVE AN INCREDIBLE
05:34IMPACT, BUT THERE WAS A RAGING
05:35DEBATE SINCE YESTERDAY ABOUT
05:36WHETHER PRESIDENT BIDEN KNEW OR
05:39COORDINATED THIS.
05:40NOW WE HEAR PRESIDENT BIDEN IN
05:41HIS OWN WORDS SAID HE THOUGHT IT
05:43WAS A GOOD SPEECH.
05:44THESE ARE VERY STRONG SIGNALS.
05:46THE QUESTION STILL REMAINS
05:48WHETHER AMERICAN RHETORIC WILL
05:49BE BACKED BY POLICY.
05:51WE ARE STARTING TO SEE THE
05:53BEGINNINGS OF AMERICAN POLICIES
05:54THAT ARE PUTTING SOME PRESSURE
05:55ON ISRAEL.
05:56BUT THEY ARE SMALL AND
06:00INCREMENTAL.
06:01FOR EXAMPLE, SANCTIONING
06:02SETTLERS, TAKING LEAD ON
06:03HUMANITARIAN AID.
06:05I THINK THAT'S THE REAL QUESTION
06:06IS WHETHER THESE SIGNALS WILL
06:08TURN INTO POLICY SHIFTS ON THE
06:09PART OF THE U.S.
06:10I THINK THERE'S CERTAINLY SOME
06:12CONCERN IN THE ISRAELI POLITICAL
06:13ELITE THAT THAT'S THE DIRECTION
06:13IT WILL GO.
06:15>> THE IMMEDIATE REACTION TO
06:18THOSE COMMENTS IN ISRAEL, THE
06:20PARTY REACTED BY SAYING ISRAEL
06:22IS NOT A BANANA REPUBLIC.
06:25NETANYAHU HAS POLICY THAT HAS
06:27WIDE SUPPORT.
06:28BENNY GANTZ, LIKELY OPPONENT IF
06:33THERE WERE EARLY ELECTIONS, AND
06:34SOMEONE WHO ACCORDING TO POLLS
06:36WOULD BEAT NETANYAHU, SAID
06:40SCHUMER ERRED AND ANY EXTERNAL
06:44INTERFERENCE IS
06:47COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE.
06:48DO YOU THINK THESE WORDS COULD
06:48HAVE THE REVERSE AFFECT THAT
06:51THEY WERE INTENDED TO DELIVER?
06:53THAT INSTEAD OF ISRAELIS SORT OF
06:55BEING AWAKENED AND FRIGHTENED BY
06:58COMMENTS LIKE THIS FROM ONE OF
07:00ITS SUPPORTERS, THAT INSTEAD
07:01THERE MAY BE A RALLY AROUND THE
07:03FLAG AND IF NOT THE FLAG THEN
07:05AROUND THE PRIME MINISTER KIND
07:07OF A MOMENT IN RESPONSE TO
07:09ANOTHER COUNTRY SUGGESTING THAT
07:11A SMALLER ALLY SHOULD GO TO THE
07:14ELECTION POLLS?
07:15>> YEAH, SURELY NY LLY NETANYAH
07:19HOPE THAT'S THE REACTION.
07:20HE LOVES TO POSITION HIMSELF AS
07:24ISRAEL'S TOP GLOBAL STATESMAN,
07:26THE ONLY ONE CAPABLE OF STANDING
07:28UP TO PRESSURE FROM THE UNITED
07:29STATES.
07:29HE HAS AT PARTICULAR MOMENTS
07:31PICKED FIGHTS WITH THE U.S.,
07:32PARTICULARLY IN 2015 WHEN HE
07:34SPOKE BEFORE CONGRESS GOING
07:36BEHIND THE BACK OF PRESIDENT
07:37OBAMA.
07:38THAT WAS A CONTROVERSY HE TRIED
07:40TO LEVERAGE TO HIS ADVANTAGE.
07:41LET ME SAY, NETANYAHU WOULD HAVE
07:43TO GO A LONG WAY TO RALLYING THE
07:45ISRAELI PUBLIC BEHIND HIM.
07:48IN 2015, IT DIDN'T HELP HIM TO
07:49GO TO CONGRESS.
07:50WE WERE IN AN ELECTION CYCLE.
07:53IT DID NOT HELP HIS POLL
07:55NUMBERS.
07:55AT PRESENT, NETANYAHU IS
07:56SUFFERING IN THE POLLS.
07:59HE IS NOT INCORRECT TO SAY THE
08:00ISRAELI PUBLIC IS SUPPORTIVE OF
08:02THE WAR.
08:03THAT'S A RALLY AROUND THE FLAG
08:05AND IT'S A REALITY.
08:07THE ISRAELI PUBLIC,
08:09INTERESTINGLY BY CONTRAST TO
08:10MOST OTHER COUNTRIES WHERE
08:11PUBLIC RALLIES AROUND THEIR
08:13LEADERS BEHIND THE WAR, HAS
08:16EXPRESSED SCATHING ATTITUDES
08:19WITH RELATION TO NETANYAHU.
08:22HE IS TRAILING GANTZ BY DOUBLE
08:25DIGITS AND HAS BEEN SINCE THE
08:26BEGINNING OF THE WAR.
08:26A THIRD OF ISRAELIS PREFER HIM
08:28AS PRIME MINISTER.
08:30CLOSE TO 50%, 47% PREFER MR.
08:36GANTZ.
08:40HIS ORIGINAL COALITION HAS LORJ
08:44ABO
08:44-- HAS LOST ABOUT A THIRD OF
08:45HIS VOTES.
08:56I THINK SAY SCHUMER WAS RIGHT TO
08:59SAY THAT IT MAY BE WORTH GOING
09:01TOWARDS ELECTIONS SOON.
09:04IN CERTAIN POLLS, UP TO 70% OF
09:06THE ISRAELI PUBLIC ALSO SUPPORTS
09:07GOING INTO ELECTIONS EITHER WHEN
09:10THE WAR IS OVER OR RIGHT NOW.
09:12THAT'S A VERY SIGNIFICANT AND
09:14STRONG REBUKE FOR THE GOVERNMENT
09:15DURING A TIME OF WAR.
09:17>> HAS THERE BEEN A SITUATION --
09:20FULLY ACKNOWLEDGING THIS IS AN
09:21ACUTE SHOCK TO THE COUNTRY.
09:25ONE OF ITS WORST TRAGEDIES AND
09:29ATTACKS.
09:29HAS THERE BEEN A SITUATION WHERE
09:33YOU HAD SORT OF A LOPSIDED
09:34RESULT ON ONE HAND, THE MAJORITY
09:36OF PEOPLE SURVEYED SUPPORTING AN
09:39ADMINISTRATION'S POLICIES, BUT
09:40ON THE OTHER HAND, NOT
09:42SUPPORTING THE PRIME MINISTER
09:46HIMSELF?
09:46>> I CAN'T THINK OF A PARTICULAR
09:50SITUATION THAT MIRRORS THESE
09:50PRECISE POLL NUMBERS.
09:51I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE ISRAELI
09:53PUBLIC KNOWS HOW TO GET PRETTY
09:55ANGRY AT THEIR LEADERS WHEN THEY
09:56FEEL THEY HAVE NOT SUCCEEDED IN
09:58A WAR OR WHEN THE WAR -- WHEN
10:00THERE WAS A FAILURE LEADING UP
10:01TO THE WAR.
10:02OF COURSE, WE HAVE PRECEDENCE
10:04FOR THAT, CERTAINLY AFTER 1973
10:06WHEN ISRAELIS CAME OUT TO
10:08DEMONSTRATE AGAINST THE TOP
10:09LEADERSHIP, LEADING TO THE
10:11RESIGNATION OF THE PRIME
10:12MINISTER AFTER THE WAR.
10:13WE ALSO SAW MAJOR DEMONSTRATIONS
10:15IN 2006 AFTER THE LEBANON WAR.
10:19THIS WAS ISRAEL'S SECOND LEBANON
10:21WAR.
10:21BECAUSE OF PERCEIVED FAILURES
10:23AND POOR PREPARATION FOR THE
10:25WAR.
10:25THAT WAS A CONTRIBUTING FACTOR,
10:28I WOULD SAY, TOWARDS
10:30UNPOPULARITY OF THE GOVERNMENT
10:31AT THE TIME.
10:33ISRAELIS KNOW HOW TO TAKE
10:34ACTION, INCLUDING MASS
10:37DEMONSTRATIONS.
10:38WHETHER THIS PARTICULAR
10:38SITUATION IS UNPRECEDENTED OR
10:40NOT -- EVERYTHING HERE IN A WAY
10:41IS UNPRECEDENTED.
10:42I THINK THE MOST UNPRECEDENTED
10:44ELEMENT HERE IS THAT ISRAELIS
10:46ARE FACING A SITUATION WHERE
10:49THEY -- I THINK THAT THEY ARE
10:52INTERNALIZING, THAT ISRAEL IS IN
10:53A LOSING POSITION.
10:54OCTOBER 7th WAS A TREMENDOUS
10:56LOSS THAT CAN NEVER BE REGAINED.
10:59NO MATTER -- AS LONG AS -- THE
11:01LONGER THE WAR GOES ON, WHAT WE
11:03SEE IN SURVEY RESEARCH IS THAT
11:05ISRAELIS ARE EXPRESSING GROWING
11:06DOUBTS THAT THERE CAN BE SUCH A
11:08THING AS THE TOTAL VICTORY THAT
11:10NETANYAHU HAS BEEN PROMISING.
11:11WE SEE THOSE NUMBERS RISING OVER
11:14TIME.
11:15WE SEE SUPPORT -- OR CONFIDENCE
11:17THAT ISRAEL CAN ACHIEVE ALL OF
11:19ITS AIMS SLIPPING OVER TIME,
11:21BECAUSE IT'S BEEN AROUND FIVE
11:23MONTHS.
11:24HAMAS IS STILL THERE.
11:26HAMAS IS STILL THE DECISIVE
11:28FIGURE WHO WILL DECIDE THE FATE
11:30OF THE HOSTAGES.
11:31ISRAELIS ARE INTERNALIZING THEY
11:33CAN'T HAVE THE TOTAL VICTORY
11:34THEY HAVE BEEN PROMISED BY A
11:36GOVERNMENT THAT HAS FAILED THEM.
11:37THAT SITUATION IS UNPRECEDENTED
11:38IN ISRAEL.
11:40>> I WOULD IMAGINE THAT A TOTAL
11:42VICTORY FROM PRIME MINISTER
11:44NETANYAHU WOULD NOT JUST SEE ALL
11:45OF THE HOSTAGES RETURNED HOME,
11:46WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY THE ULTIMATE
11:48GOAL HERE.
11:49EVERYONE WANTS THE HOSTAGES
11:50RETURNED HOME IN A CEASE-FIRE.
11:52PERHAPS EVEN ACKNOWLEDGING THAT
11:53THEY HAD TAKEN OUT OR KILLED
11:58SINWAR OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE
11:59LINES.
12:00IT'S VERY EASY FOR NETANYAHU TO
12:04HIDE BEHIND THE, I HAVE THE
12:05SUPPORT OR MY POLICIES HAVE THE
12:07SUPPORT OF THE ISRAELI PUBLIC.
12:09IN TERMS OF YOUR RESEARCH, DO
12:11YOU SENSE THAT THERE'S A CHANGE
12:13THERE, THAT THE SUPPORT FOR THE
12:15WAR ITSELF IS WANING AT ALL?
12:16OR NO?
12:19>> THAT'S WHAT I WAS GETTING AT
12:20BEFORE.
12:21I DON'T THINK YOU CAN TALK ABOUT
12:24THE SUPPORT FOR THE WAR
12:28DECLINING.
12:29BUT THERE'S A DECLINE THE AIMS
12:35WILL BE ACHIEVED.
12:37THE TRAGIC REALITY IS THAT MANY
12:38OF THE HOSTAGES HAVE ALREADY
12:39DIED IN CAPTIVITY.
12:42THE ARMY HAS ADMITTED THAT THEY
12:44ASSESSED AROUND 30 HAVE DIED.
12:46MANY ASSESS THERE ARE PROBABLY
12:48MORE THAN 30 OUT OF THE 134
12:50REMAINING WHO ARE PROBABLY NO
12:50LONGER ALIVE.
12:54AT EVERY PHASE OF THE INDIRECT
12:58NEGOTIATIONS TO TRY TO RELEASE
12:59THE HOSTAGES AND REACH A
13:03CEAS
13:04CEASE-FIRE, THE HOPES OF THE
13:05FAMILIES ARE RAISED AND DASHED.
13:06THIS IS A TOERRIBLE PROCESS.
13:12ISRAELIS WOULD CONTINUE TO
13:14SUPPORT THE AIM OF DESTROYING
13:15HAMAS.
13:16THERE'S LITTLE BOUGHT THAT THE
13:17VAST MAJORITY OF ISRAELIS
13:18SUPPORT THAT, NO MATTER HOW THE
13:19QUESTION IS ASKED, ISRAELI
13:22SUPPORT THE AMOUNT OF FORCE,
13:25DESPITE THE CATASTROPHIC
13:27SITUATION IN GAZA.
13:29THEY EVEN JUSTIFY THE NUMBER OF
13:31CIVILIAN CASUALTIES, ACCORDING
13:33TO TEL AVIV UNIVERSITY'S
13:34POLLING.
13:35BUT THEY ARE AWARE -- HOW COULD
13:37THEY NOT BE -- THAT THE HOSTAGES
13:39ARE NOT HOME.
13:40FOR THE MAJORITY OF ISRAELI,
13:42THAT'S THE HIGHER PRIORITY.
13:44I DON'T THINK THEY WILL GO OUT
13:45INTO THE STREETS CALLING FOR A
13:46CEASE-FIRE.
13:47FOR ISRAELIS, THERE'S NO SUCH
13:48THING AS A CEASE-FIRE IN
13:50ISOLATION OF THE HOSTAGE
13:51RELEASE.
13:53>> IT'S WORTH NOTING AS HAS BEEN
13:55NOTED ON THIS SHOW WHAT ISRAELIS
13:57ARE SEEING AND READING IS NOT
14:00WHAT THE REST OF THE WORLD IS
14:02WHEN YOU ARE ASKING WHY SO MUCH
14:04PRESSURE FROM THE WEST ON ISRAEL
14:08TO PUT IN AND IMPLEMENT A
14:10CEASE-FIRE, GIVEN THE
14:12HUMANITARIAN CRISIS IN GAZA.
14:13IT'S TWO DIFFERENT REALITIES
14:15FROM WHAT ISRAELIS ARE SHOWN AND
14:16THE REST OF THE WORLD SEES.
14:19ANOTHER POTENTIAL CRISIS THAT IS
14:21LOOMING FOR NETANYAHU AND
14:23HEADWIND IS THE CONTROVERSY OVER
14:25DRAFTING OF THE ORTHODOX IN
14:27ISRAEL.
14:28THEY HAVE BEEN EXEMPT.
14:30THAT MAY BE CHANGING.
14:32OF COURSE, THIS REALLY WOULD
14:34IMPACT HIS COALITION.
14:34HOW DO YOU SEE THAT PLAYING OUT?
14:38>> FIRST OF ALL, YOU WOULDN'T
14:39HOLD YOUR BREATH FOR A MASS
14:42DRAFT OF THE ULTRA-ORTHODOX.
14:43IT'S A MATTER OF DRAFTING THE
14:48ULTRA-ORTHODOX.
14:48THESE ARE DISTINCT COMMUNITIES.
14:51IT'S INTEGRATED INTO ISRAELI
14:52LIFE.
14:52IT IS THE ISOLATIONIST
14:54ULTRA-ORTHODOX COMMUNITIES WHO
14:55HAVE ENJOYED AN EXEMPTION FROM
15:00THE DRAFT GOING BACK TO THE
15:01BEGINNING OF STATEHOOD.
15:02SINCE THE BEGINNING OF
15:04STATEHOOD, THE GOVERNMENT HAS
15:04BEEN UNABLE TO RESOLVE THIS,
15:07LARGELY BECAUSE MANY -- I WOULD
15:09SAY MOST COALITIONS IN THE
15:10HISTORY OF ISRAEL DEPEND ON THE
15:13PARTIES REPRESENTING THOSE
15:14ULTRA-ORTHODOX COMMUNITIES.
15:17IF THEY FORCE SOME SORT OF
15:18CHANGE IN THE POLICY THAT WOULD
15:20INVOLVE WIDESPREAD DRAFT OF THE
15:23ULTRA-ORTHODOX, THOSE SMALL
15:24PARTIES COULD LEAVE THE
15:25COALITION AND TOPPLE THE
15:26GOVERNMENT.
15:26THEY ARE NOT EVEN SO SMALL.
15:28THE TWO PARTIES THAT REPRESENT
15:30THE ULTRA-ORTHODOX COMMUNITIES,
15:33TOTAL 18 SEATS OUT OF THE
15:35ORIGINAL 64 BEFORE THE COALITION
15:37WAS EXPANDED.
15:38ONE OF THOSE PARTIES, ONE THAT
15:41HAS 11 SEATS, WE'RE NOT SURE
15:42WHAT THEY WOULD DO.
15:43THIS CAN CAUSE A COALITION
15:44CRISIS WHEN THERE'S A DEBATE
15:45OVER THE DRAFT BILL.
15:47AT THIS POINT, THERE ARE TWO
15:49FACTORS THAT MAKE IT MORE
15:51INTENSE AND EMOTIONAL AND URGENT
15:52IN ISRAEL.
15:54ONE IS SIMPLY THE NEED FOR MORE
15:57MANPOWER.
15:58THE DRAFT BILL RIGHT NOW WOULD
16:03INVOLVE MORE EXTENSIVE SERVICE
16:05FROM RESERVE DUTY ISRAELIS AND
16:07LONGER REGULAR SERVICE.
16:09THAT'S CAUSING A HUGE UPROAR.
16:11THE SUPREME COURT HAS ORDERED
16:12THE GOVERNMENT TO EXPLAIN WHY IT
16:14WILL -- WHY IT CANNOT DRAFT THE
16:17ULTRA-ORTHODOX BY THE END OF
16:19MARCH.
16:21>> SORRY TO WRAP YOU THERE.
16:24WE ARE TIGHT ON TIME.
16:25LOVE HAVING YOU ON.
16:26ALWAYS LOVE HEARING YOUR
16:27ANALYSIS.
16:29THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING
16:30US.
16:31>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
16:35>>> NEXT, TO A MUSICAL LEGEND.
16:38FEW AMERICAN ARTISTS HAVE A BODY
16:40OF WORK COMPARABLE TO PAUL
16:41SIMON.
16:41FEW MAKE AS MANY IMPACTFUL
16:44DOCUMENTARIES AS DIRECTOR ALEX
16:47GIBNEY.
16:47THEY HAVE COME TOGETHER TO
16:50PRODUCE A NEW DOCUSERIES.
16:52HERE IS A CLIP FROM THE TRAILER.
16:56>> WHAT I LEARNED IS THAT, WHEN
16:59YOU FIND A THING THAT PRODUCES A
17:02FEELING OF PEACE OR JOY, TRY AND
17:05HOLD ON TO IT.
17:06IT'S LIKE BLISS.
17:09THAT'S MUSIC FOR ME.
17:11THANK YOU SO MUCH.
17:15>> IT BRINGS VIEWERS FROM THE
17:16EARLY DAYS OF SIMON AND
17:19GARFUNKLE TO THE DREAMS THAT
17:20BECAME THE INSPIRATION FOR
17:22SIMON'S LATEST ALBUM "SEVEN
17:26PSALMS."
17:32>> PAUL SIMON AND ALEX GIBNEY,
17:33WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.
17:35>> THANKS SO MUCH.
17:36GREAT TO BE HERE.
17:36>> NICE TO SEE YOU AGAIN.
17:38>> PAUL, IT WAS YOURED IDEA TO
17:43INVITE THIS FILMMAKER INTO YOUR
17:45PROCESS OF YOUR LATEST ALBUM.
17:48>> WELL, IT WAS MAYBE -- IT WAS
17:53AN IDEA THAT --
17:53>> YOU BOTH HAD?
17:54>> WE BOTH SAID --
17:56>> YEAH.
17:57WE MET IN A SMALL CAFE IN
18:00AUSTIN, TEXAS, AND STARTED
18:01TALKING ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF
18:03DOING SOMETHING THAT WOULD
18:07ENCOMPASS PAUL'S CAREER.
18:08IT WAS WHEN PAUL CALLED ME ONE
18:10DAY AND SAID, I'M WORKING ON
18:12THIS NEW RECORD, "SEVEN PSALMS."
18:16WOULD YOU BE INTERESTED IN
18:17WATCHING ME MAKE IT?
18:18>> YES.
18:19>> IN TERMS OF PROCESS, CERTAIN
18:20THINGS REALLY FASCINATED ME.
18:22FOR INSTANCE, THE FOOTAGE THAT
18:25YOU FOUND -- ALEX, YOU MADE A
18:27DEAL ABOUT THIS.
18:28IT WAS SO REMARKABLE.
18:31PAUL SITTING IN THE BATHROOM --
18:36WAY BACK WHEN IN THE '60s.
18:38DOING THE SOUNDS AND FIGURING
18:42OUT HOW THAT SOUNDED IN AN
18:46ECHOEY BATHROOM WITH THE TILED
18:48WALLS.
18:49PAUL, DO YOU REMEMBER THAT?
18:49GO BACK TO THAT AND WHAT SONG IT
18:51WAS.
18:51>> OF COURSE.
18:54I REMEMBER IT.
18:55THE SONG WAS "THE SOUND OF
18:56SILENCE."
19:00YEAH, I REMEMBER IT.
19:02I WAS STILL LIVING AT HOME IN MY
19:03PARENTS' HOUSE.
19:05I COULD SIT IN THE TIELED
19:10BATHROOM AND HEAR AN ECHO.
19:12EVERYTHING SOUNDED GOOD.
19:13♪ HELLO DARKNESS MY OLD FRIEND
19:16♪ I'VE COME TO TALK WITH YOU
19:17AGAIN ♪
19:20>> WHEN WE SANG IN GROUPS, WE
19:23USED TO SING IN THE SUBWAY,
19:25BECAUSE IT WAS A GREAT ECHO.
19:27OR SING IN THE BOY'S ROOM.
19:30I REMEMBER IT.
19:32YOU REMEMBER STUFF AS IF IT WAS
19:34YESTERDAY.
19:34IT'S ONE OF THE CLICHES OF
19:36GETTING OLDER.
19:38>> THAT'S RIGHT.
19:39>> ABSOLUTELY A VIVID MEMORY.
19:41>> IT'S SO INTERESTING TO SEE
19:42THAT PROCESS.
19:43ALEX, I ASSUME THAT REALLY SORT
19:44OF GRABBED YOU AS WELL.
19:46ALSO, THE BOXER WITH THE DRUM
19:48THAT WAS RECORDED IN THE
19:50ELEVATOR SHAFT.
19:50THESE THINGS BLOW MY MIND.
19:52>> THAT WAS THE ENGINEER'S IDEA.
19:56WE WERE RECORDING IN A BUILDING
19:58THAT WAS SEVEN OR EIGHT STORIES
19:59HIGH.
20:01IT WAS LATE AT NIGHT.
20:03WHEN THAT THE ELEVATOR WASN'T
20:04WORKING, WE COULD PUT THE DRUM
20:08IN THE ELEVATOR SHAFT AND HIT
20:11IT.
20:13YOU WOULD HEAR THIS HUGE, HUGE
20:15SOUND.
20:20♪ LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE
20:22♪ LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE
20:25♪ LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE
20:29♪ LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE
20:33>> IT WAS A BRILLIANT ENGINEER
20:36NAMED ROY.
20:36>> PAUL GAVE US ACCESS TO THE
20:38ARCHIVE.
20:38THERE WAS A FILM WHICH WE SHOW
20:40PART OF IN THE DOC CALLED "SONGS
20:43OF AMERICA."
20:44THESE WERE OUTTAKES IN CANS,
20:47UNLABELED, THAT WE WENT THROUGH
20:48AND RESTORED.
20:49WE FOUND THIS BEAUTIFUL FOOTAGE
20:51OF PAUL WORKING WITH ROY AND
20:54ARTIE IN THE STUDIO TRYING TO
20:56MAKE THE ALBUM "BRIDGE OVER
20:57TROUBLED WATER."
21:00THEN THAT WAS A HARMONY TO THE
21:03PROCESS I WAS OBSERVING IN THE
21:05PRESENT.
21:06>> I ASSUME, LIKE MOST OF US,
21:09SIMON AND GARFUNKLE WERE PART OF
21:11YOUR LIVED EXPERIENCE.
21:14YOU ARE THE SOUNDTRACK OF SO
21:16MANY GENERATIONS.
21:18I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT MEETING
21:21PAUL TO MAKE THIS FILM WHEN HE
21:26IS -- I DON'T WANT TO SAY AT THE
21:28E
21:29END OF HIS CAREER, BUT IN THE
21:30LATTER PART OF HIS CAREER,
21:31PARTICULARLY SHOWING THE
21:33STRUGGLES ABOUT SINGING, HITTING
21:34THE NOTES, THE IDEA ABOUT THE
21:36HEARING LOSS.
21:36I WANT TO -- YOU LOST THE
21:41HEARING IN ONE EAR.
21:42PAUL, YOU SAY YOU FELL INTO A
21:45DEPRESSION.
21:45YOU KNOW YOU CAN'T SING LIKE YOU
21:46USED TO.
21:47AND YET IN THIS FILM, YOU ARE
21:49SHOWING THE WORLD --
21:50>> NO.
21:51>> NO?
21:51>> NO.
21:53MY VOICE IS FINE.
21:54IN SOME WAYS, I LIKE MY VOICE --
21:57THE LIKE THE WAY I SING NOW MORE
21:58THAN I LIKED IT WHEN I WAS
22:00YOUNG.
22:01THE HEARING, THAT REALLY DID
22:02AFFECT MY ABILITY TO SING WITH
22:04OTHER MUSICIANS.
22:09I CAN'T PLAY WITH DRUMS OR
22:11ELECTRIC GUITAR ANYMORE, BECAUSE
22:14THE SOUND IS OVERWHELMING.
22:16IT BECOMES TOO MUCH.
22:20MY VOICE IS FINE AND FLEXIBLE.
22:23I'M VERY LUCKY.
22:24IN THE AGING PROCESS, THAT'S
22:26FINE.
22:26I GET A LOT OF PLEASURE OUT OF
22:28SINGING.
22:29>> IT SHOWS.
22:29I STILL WANT TO ASK YOU, ALEX,
22:32IN YOUR FILM, YOU HAVE WINTON
22:41MARSALIS EXPLAINING IT TOOK B
22:47BEETHOVEN TEN YEARS TO FIGURE IT
22:48OUT.
22:48WHAT ABOUT THAT STRUGGLE WAS
22:50INTERESTING FOR YOU?
22:51DID YOU HAVE TO PERSUADE HIM TO
22:53KEEP IT IN THE FILM?
22:57>> NO.
22:58PAUL PRETTY GAVE ME FREEDOM TO
23:00DO WHAT I WAS GOING TO DO.
23:02WINTON'S POINT IS WELL TAKEN.
23:05OBVIOUSLY, YOU ARE INTERESTED IN
23:06DRAMA.
23:08IN STRUGGLE, THERE'S ALWAYS
23:09DRAMA.
23:12TO WATCH AND LISTEN TO PAUL AS
23:13HE TRIED TO RECKON WITH HIS
23:17HEARING LOSS AND TRIED TO FIND A
23:20WAY FORWARD, THAT WAS REALLY
23:22POWERFUL.
23:23IT WAS A VERY POWERFUL EMOTION.
23:26IT WAS INTERESTING TO SEE HOW HE
23:29WAS NAVIGATING THE WAY IT SEEMED
23:31LIKE HE WAS HEARING SOUNDS
23:32DIFFERENTLY.
23:34IT BECAME A KIND OF ESSENTIAL
23:36PART OF THE SOUL OF THE FILM.
23:39AND ALSO -- I THINK IN "SEVEN
23:45PSALMS," THE RECORD, YOU CAN
23:47HEAR THE STRUGGLE
23:48♪ THE LAW IS MY ENGINEER
24:01>> IT IS ALSO ABOUT SPIRITALITY
24:03AND MORTALITY AND TIME AND
24:03MEMORY.
24:10IT COMES OUT OF THAT STRUGGLE.
24:11PAUL FACES THE DILEMMA OF, HOW
24:14MUCH DO YOU LEAVE IN?
24:16OF COURSE, PAUL IS A
24:17PERFECTIONIST AND WANTS TO MAKE
24:18SURE YOU ARE GOING TO -- YOU
24:22DON'T WANT TO HEAR THE MISTAKES.
24:24>> WELL, WINTON ALWAYS SAYS TO
24:28ME, LEAVE THOSE MISTAKES IN.
24:31BUT I SAY TO WINTON, YEAH, BUT
24:35YOU WOULDN'T.
24:38I ALSO SAY -- I ALWAYS SAY TO --
24:40THE EAR GOES TO THE IRRITANT.
24:43WHEN YOU ARE SINGING LIVE, IF
24:45YOU SING A LITTLE OUT OF TUNE OR
24:46YOU MAKE A MISTAKE, IT DOESN'T
24:48MATTER.
24:48IF IT'S RECORDED AND I LISTEN
24:52BACK, I SAY, THAT NOTE IS FLAT.
24:56I HAVE TO SING IT AGAIN.
24:58OR I COULD PLAY THAT PART -- THE
25:00EAR GOES TO THE IRRITANT.
25:02FIRST YOU SAY, THAT'S OKAY.
25:03LEAVE IT.
25:04IT'S OKAY.
25:05EVENTUALLY, YOU GET TO, I CAN'T
25:07STAND THIS PART OF THE SONG.
25:10>> I FOUND IT REALLY
25:13INTERESTING.
25:14I ALSO FOUND IT QUITE BRAVE, TO
25:15BE HONEST, AND QUITE NAKED.
25:17YOU REALLY ARE SHOWING WHAT IT'S
25:19LIKE.
25:19AT THE AGE OF 22, YOU WROTE
25:21"SOUND OF SILENCE."
25:22WHO WAS THE 22-YEAR-OLD?
25:25>> I HAVE NO IDEA WHO -- THE
25:30CONNECTION BETWEEN "SOUND OF
25:31SILENCE" AND WHO I WAS AT THAT
25:34AGE.
25:34♪ HELLO DARKNESS MY OLD FRIEND
25:38♪ COME TO TALK WITH YOU AGAIN
25:40>> I THINK IT'S ONE OF THOSE
25:41EXPERIENCES THAT I HAVE NOTICED
25:46NOW IN LOOKING AT MY CAREER
25:52WHERE YOU ARE JUST A CONDUIT.
25:54THAT'S KIND OF A CLUE ICHE, BUT
25:59IT'S TRUE.
26:00IT BECOMES AN EFFORTLESS PIECE
26:01OF WRITING.
26:02YOU THINK -- AT THE TIME, I
26:04THOUGHT, THAT'S PROBABLY MY BEST
26:06SONG.
26:06I NEVER THOUGHT, THIS SONG WILL
26:08LAST FOR 60 YEARS AND PEOPLE
26:11WILL -- NEVER THOUGHT THAT AT
26:12ALL.
26:15IN MY CAREER -- IT HAPPENED
26:19AGAIN WHETN I WROTE "BRIDGE OVE
26:21TROUBLED WATER."
26:23I THOUGHT, THAT'S BETTER THAN I
26:27USUALLY WRITE.
26:28♪ WHEN YOU'RE WEARY, FEELING
26:30SMALL ♪
26:33>> THE SAME WITH "GRACELAND."
26:39OR "STILL CRAZY AFTER ALL THESE
26:45YE
26:45YEARS."
26:46♪ I MET MY OLD LOVER ON THE
26:47STREET LAST NIGHT ♪
26:49♪ SHE SEEMED SO GLAD TO SEE ME,
26:51I JUST SMILED ♪
26:55>> THIS IS A JUMP THAT -- IT'S
26:59SOMETHING AKIN TO A MYSTERIOUS
27:05INSPIRATION.
27:06I DON'T FKNOW WHAT IT IS.
27:10IT'S GREAT WHETHEN IT HAPPENS.
27:13>> LOOK, IT HAS HAPPENED ENOUGH.
27:14YOU TALKED ABOUT "GRACELAND."
27:16I WANT TO PLAY A CLIP FROM THE
27:18FILM.
27:19YOU SAY THE SONG ALMOST WROTE
27:21ITSELF.
27:21HERE IS HOW YOU TALK ABOUT IT IN
27:26THE FILM.
27:26>> WHEN I BROUGHT IT HOME AND I
27:27WAS TRYING TO WRITE, I WOULD
27:30SING THESE LINES ABOUT
27:30GRACELAND.
27:34I WOULD SAY -- I DIDN'T WANT TO
27:35GET RID OF THE GRACELAND PART.
27:37WHAT'S GREAT LAND -- GRACELAND
27:44TO DO WITH SOUTH AFRICA?
27:47>> I NKNOW ELVIS WAS ONE OF YOU
27:49HEROES.
27:55>> I KEPT SINGING IT AS I WAS
27:58IMPROVISING AND THINKING, I HAVE
27:59TO CHANGE THAT.
28:03IT WOULDN'T CHANGE.
28:06I SAID, I BETTER GO DO GRACELAND
28:10AND SEE WHAT'S GOING ON.
28:11AS I DROVE THERE -- I WAS COMING
28:12UP FROM LOUISIANA, DRIVING
28:14THROUGH MISSISSIPPI AND UP TO
28:15THE MISSISSIPPI DELTA.
28:17THAT WAS THE BEGINNING OF THE
28:21SONG, THE MISSISSIPPI DELTA, WAS
28:21SHINING LIKE A NATIONAL GUITAR.
28:24♪ THE MISSISSIPPI DELTA WAS
28:26SHINING LIKE A NATIONAL GUITAR ♪
28:32♪ I AM FOLLOWING THE RIVER DOWN
28:34THE HIGHWAY THROUGH THE CRADLE
28:35OF THE CIVIL WAR ♪
28:40♪ I'M GOING TO GRACELAND,
28:43GRACELAND ♪
28:43♪ MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE
28:45♪ I'M GOING TO GRACELAND
28:47>> WHEN I WENT TO GRACELAND, I
28:50THOUGHT, AS I WALKED THROUGH THE
28:53HOUSE -- IT'S MUCH SMALLER THAN
28:55YOU THINK IT'S GOING TO BE.
28:56YOU THINK IT'S GOING TO BE THIS
28:57BIG MANSION, BUT IT ISN'T.
29:01OKAY, IT'S A LITTLE HOUSE.
29:04COMPARED TO A MANSION.
29:07HE HAS ALL HIS AWARDS AND HIS
29:10COSTUMES AND ALL OF THIS STUFF.
29:13I THOUGHT, OKAY.
29:16I'M NOT TERRIBLY -- I'M NOT
29:17MOVED OR ANYTHING.
29:19THEN YOU COME INTO -- OUT AND
29:23INTO THE BACKYARD, WHATEVER.
29:26AND THERE'S HIS GRAVE AND IT
29:29SAYS, ELVIS AARON PRESLEY, WHOSE
29:31MUSIC TOUCHED PEOPLE ALL OVER
29:35THE WORLD -- I'M PARAPHRASING.
29:37ANYWAY, I JUST STARTED TO CRY.
29:40I THOUGHT, THAT IS THE TRUTH.
29:42THAT REALLY -- HIS MUSIC -- THEN
29:44I THOUGHT, GRACELAND BECOMES A
29:49METAPHOR FOR A STATE OF GRACE.
29:51THAT APPLIES TO WHAT HAPPENED TO
29:55ME WITH THE EXPERIENCE OF MAKING
29:59"GRACELAND" IN SOUTH AFRICA.
30:00>> I WANT TO BRING BACK AND TALK
30:02TO BOTH OF YOU ABOUT "AMERICAN
30:08TUNE."
30:08ONE OF YOUR BEST LOVED SONGS IS
30:11"AMERICAN TUNE."
30:14ABOUT 50 YEARS AFTER YOU WROTE
30:15IT, YOU PLAYED IT WITH THE
30:21MUSICIAN RIANNAN.
30:27YOUR ORIGINAL LYRIC, HERE IS THE
30:29WAY RIANNAN SANG IT.
30:35♪ WE DIDN'T COME HERE ON THE
30:37MAYFLOWER ♪
30:38♪ WE CAME ON A SHIP
30:44♪ WE COME IN THE AGES UNCERTAIN
30:50NOW ♪
30:51♪ AND SING AN AMERICAN TUNE
30:55>> IT'S DRAMATIC.
30:57SHE'S GOT THE AFRICAN AMERICAN
30:59EXPERIENCE THERE.
31:00THEY DIDN'T COME ON THE
31:02MAYFLOWER.
31:02PAUL SIMON, WAS THAT HER IDEA?
31:05HOW WERE THOSE WORDS CHANGED?
31:08>> I REWROTE THEM.
31:11WHEN SHE SANG THAT SONG ON A
31:16TELEVISION SHOW, THE GRAMMYS PUT
31:18ON THAT CELEBRATED MY MUSIC.
31:21SHE WAS GOING TO SING "AMERICAN
31:23TUNE."
31:23I THOUGHT, THAT WILL BE VERY
31:27I
31:27INTERESTING TO HEAR WITH A
31:28FEMALE VOICE.
31:29THEN I SAID, FOR AN AFRICAN
31:31AMERICAN, THAT LYRIC DOESN'T
31:34WORK.
31:34I CALLED HER AND I SAID, WHAT DO
31:36YOU THINK IF I CHANGED THE LYRIC
31:38TO, WE DIDN'T COME HERE ON THE
31:42MAYFLOWER, WE CAME ON A SHIP IN
31:44A BLOOD RED MOON?
31:45SHE SAID, YEAH, THAT'S REALLY --
31:47THAT'S POWERFUL FOR ME.
31:50THAT'S HOW THAT CAME ABOUT.
31:54AS A SONGWRITER, IT'S LOVELY
31:56WHEN YOUR SONG GETS REINVENTED.
32:00SHE DID THAT BOTH BY BEING A
32:02FEMALE PERFORMER AND THE AFRICAN
32:07PERSPECTIVE ON "AMERICAN TUNE."
32:08THAT'S HOW IT CAME ABOUT.
32:10BIG THANKS TO HER.
32:13SHE'S A VERY POWERFUL PERFORMER,
32:15AS YOU CAN SEE.
32:17>> IT'S A REALLY GREAT
32:20COMBINATION.
32:20ALEX, I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT
32:23SIMON AND GARFUNKLE.
32:25THE WHOLE WORLD LOVED SIMON AND
32:28GARFUNKLE.
32:28I KNOW IT'S NOW PAUL SIMON.
32:31HE IS A SOLOIST AND HE HAS THIS
32:34INCREDIBLE MULTI-DECADE CAREER
32:36ON HIS OWN.
32:37YOU ADDRESS IT.
32:38THE RELATIONSHIP IS ADDRESSED.
32:40I FIND CERTAIN THINGS
32:41INTERESTING.
32:42FOR INSTANCE, PAUL, YOU SAY THAT
32:44MY MOTHER SAID, PAUL, YOU HAVE A
32:49GOOD VOICE, BUT ARTHUR HAS A
32:50FINE VOICE.
32:50>> TO ME, IT WAS ABOUT -- IT WAS
32:53ABOUT A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN TWO
32:55PEOPLE.
32:58PAUL SAYS IT IN THE FILM, IN
32:59TERMS OF HE HAD A RELATIONSHIP
33:01WITH SOMEBODY WHO REALLY GOT
33:03HIM, WHICH WAS ART GARFUNKLE.
33:06THEN AT A CERTAIN POINT -- A LOT
33:08OF ROCK GROUPS DON'T LAST THAT
33:10LONG.
33:10THERE WAS PRESSURE TO STAY
33:11TOGETHER.
33:12THEY WERE MOVING APART.
33:14IN TERMS OF THEIR PERSONAL LIVES
33:17AND MUSICALLY.
33:20I THINK THAT PAUL WAS WRITING
33:21ALL THE SONGS AND DOING A LOT OF
33:26THE ARRANGEMENTS.
33:27ART STARTED TO HAVE A MOVIE
33:30CAREER, THANKS TO MIKE NICHOLS
33:31WHO DIRECTED "THE GRADUATE."
33:35IN A WAY, IT WAS A NATURAL
33:35SPLIT.
33:39STILL, THERE WAS SO MUCH
33:40PRESSURE BECAUSE OF THE
33:41BEAUTIFUL SOUND THAT THOSE TWO
33:43VOICES MADE TOGETHER TO STAY
33:43TOGETHER.
33:46BOTH SEEING IT AS A PERSONAL
33:47THING AND ALSO AS A MUSICAL
33:51THING.
33:51MOST OF THE DOC IS ABOUT THE
33:53MUSIC.
33:54WE ENDED PART ONE WITH THEM --
33:56WITH A SENSE OF THE ENORMOUS
33:58TENSION IN THE BREAKUP CUT
34:00AGAINST THEM SITTING ON A BED
34:05JUST SINGING OVER FEELING
34:07GROOVY.
34:08>> IT'S VERY, VERY NOSTALGIC.
34:09LET'S BRING THIS RIGHT BACK TO
34:10THE PRESENT.
34:13FROM BOTH OF YOU, I WANT TO HEAR
34:16ABOUT "SEVEN PSALMS."
34:18IT'S INCREDIBLE IT CAME TO YOU
34:20IN A DREAM.
34:21>> YES.
34:21IT WASN'T THE FIRST TIME.
34:23THIS WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT THE
34:27ENTIRE CONCEPT CAME.
34:29THE DREAM SAID -- I WASN'T
34:32THINKING ABOUT WRITING OR DOING
34:33ANY WRITING AT THE TIME.
34:35THE DREAM SAID, YOU ARE MEANT TO
34:37WRITE OR YOU ARE WRITING A PIECE
34:41CALLED "SEVEN PSALMS."
34:46I WOKE UP FROM THE DREAM AND
34:47WROTE IT DOWN.
34:49WHICH IS NOT THE WAY I USUALLY
34:50DO IT.
34:51THE NEXT DAY, I THOUGHT, WHAT
34:52COULD THAT BE?
34:55I ACTUALLY WENT TO THE DECK
35:01DICTIONARY AND LOOKED UP PSALMS.
35:04I WENT TO THE BIBLE.
35:06I SAID, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THIS
35:08IS.
35:08I SAID, IT WASN'T MY IDEA
35:09ANYWAY.
35:09IT CAME FROM A DREAM.
35:12I WILL JUST WAIT.
35:14IT STARTED TO COME IN THE FORM
35:15OF GUITAR PIECES.
35:19♪ THE LORD IS THE MUSIC I HEAR
35:23♪ DEEP IN THE VALLEY
35:32♪ IT'S A TRAIN I RIDE ON
35:34>> THAT WAS FOR ABOUT SIX, EIGHT
35:38MONTHS.
35:38THEN LYRICS WOULD COME IN A
35:38DREAM, TOO.
35:41ALWAYS BETWEEN 3:00 AND 5:00 IN
35:42THE MORNING.
35:45ON TWO OR THREE DAYS A WEEK.
35:48I WOULD GET UP AND WRITE DOWN
35:49WHATEVER WAS IN MY DREAM.
35:50IF I THOUGHT, THAT'S A GOOD
35:54VERSE, I WILL WRITE, I COULD SAY
35:56THIS IN A SECOND VERSE.
35:57AS SOON AS I DID THAT, BOOM,
36:00EVERYTHING STOPPED.
36:01IT WAS A VERY INTERESTING THING
36:03TO OBSERVE OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING
36:04TO ME.
36:05I SAID, THIS IS A GREAT TRIP.
36:07ALL I'M DOING IS FOLLOWING
36:10INSTRUCTIONS.
36:11EVERYTHING WENT JUST GREAT UNTIL
36:15THE HEARING ISSUE CAME.
36:16THEN I HAD TO -- THEN I HAD TO
36:20BRING IT HOME THROUGH THAT.
36:22>> WHAT INTERESTED ME ABOUT THE
36:24MUSIC WAS THAT IT'S ABOUT SO
36:28MUCH.
36:28IT'S ABOUT A DEBATE ABOUT THE
36:32SPIRIT.
36:33IT'S RECKONING WITH MORTALITY.
36:37ABOUT THE PRESENT AND PAST.
36:41BUT WHAT IMPRESSED ME ABOUT
36:43WATCHING PAUL WORK IT OUT WAS
36:44HIS KIND OF GENEROUS SPIRIT AS
36:54AN EXPLORER.
36:55I'M GOING TO FOLLOW THIS
36:56WHEREVER IT TAKES ME.
36:59IT WAS THAT IDEA OF EXPLORATION
37:01AND CURIOSITY AND DETERMINATION
37:04TO GET TO WHEREVER THIS SONG WAS
37:06TAKING HIM.
37:07THAT'S WHAT REALLY IMPRESSED ME.
37:08I THINK THAT COMES THROUGH IN
37:09THE MOVIE.
37:10>> ALEX GIBNEY, PAUL SIMON,
37:12THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH.
37:12>> THANK YOU.
37:13>> THANKS.
37:15>> BYE-BYE.
37:15IT'S GOOD TO TALK TO YOU AGAIN.
37:18>> IF THAT CONVERSATION DOESN'T
37:20GET YOU TO WATCH THE DOCUSERIES,
37:23I DON'T KNOW WHAT WILL.
37:25IT PREMIERES MARCH 17th ON MGM
37:30PLUS.
37:31>>> HIS MUSIC IS A REMINDER OF
37:33HOW IMPORTANT IT IS TO NOT FALL
37:35INTO OLD HABITS AND TO KEEP OUR
37:38LIVES FRESH.
37:39THAT SUBJECT IS TACKLED IN A NEW
37:41BOOK, LOOKING AT WHY WE BECOME
37:42COMPLACENT AND HOW TO RESET OUR
37:46THINKING.
37:47CASS SUNSTEIN DISCUSSES THE KEYS
37:49TO LIVING A HAPPIER LIFE.
37:51>> CASS, THANK YOU FOR JOINING
37:52US.
37:52>> GREAT PLEASURE TO BE HERE.
37:55>> IN YOUR LATEST BOOK WRITTEN
37:58WITH A NEUROSCIENTIST, IT'S
38:01CALLED "LOOK AGAIN."
38:02IT TALKS ABOUT THE ROLE -- YOU
38:05USE A BIG WORD.
38:07HABITUATION IN OUR LIFE.
38:07TELL ME WHAT YOU MEAN BY THAT.
38:14>> HA
38:15>> IT MEANS THE MORE WE DO
38:16SOMETHING, THE LESS AFFECTED WE
38:18ARE BY IT.
38:18IF YOU GO SWIMMING AND IT'S
38:21COLD, THE FIRST MINUTE IS
38:23TERRIBLE, BUT FIVE MINUTES IN
38:24YOU THINK IT'S FINE.
38:26A HOT BATH, THE SAME THING.
38:27YOU ENTER A ROOM WHERE THERE'S
38:29NOT A GOOD ODOR, PEOPLE ARE
38:31SMOKING MAYBE.
38:31AFTER MAYBE 20 MINUTES, MOST
38:34PEOPLE AREN'T GOING TO NOTICE
38:36IT.
38:39DIMINISHING SENSE OF ITTY TO
38:40WHA --
38:41SENSITIVITY TO WHAT WE ARE
38:42EXPOSED TO.
38:42>> THAT SEEMS LIKE A GOOD THING.
38:49>> IF YOU ARE SURROUNDED BY
38:51SOMETHING UNPLEASANT, IF YOUR
38:52BOSS IS MEAN, IF YOUR
38:54NEIGHBORHOOD IS TERRIBLE, WE
38:55WON'T NOTICE IT.
38:56WE GET USED TO THINGS.
38:57THAT'S A BLESSING.
39:00WHAT'S NOT SO GOOD IS IF THERE'S
39:03SOMETHING FANTASTIC IN OUR
39:04LIFE -- LET'S SAY WE HAVE
39:05CHILDREN.
39:06THEY ARE INCREDIBLE.
39:07MAYBE SOMETIMES A LITTLE
39:07TROUBLE.
39:10IT MAY BE THAT OUR JOB IS PAYING
39:12US WHAT WE NEED AND WE THOUGHT
39:15TEN YEARS AGO WE COULD HAVE THIS
39:17JOB, WE THINK IT'S A DREAM.
39:19AFTER A WHILE, WE THINK, I HAVE
39:21TO GO TO WORK.
39:22THINGS GET A LITTLE GRAY.
39:23THAT'S HOW THE HUMAN MIND WORKS
39:26THAT USED TO BE FULL OF COLOR.
39:27IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO BE ABLE
39:29TO SEE THINGS WITH BRIGHTNESS
39:33AND LIGHT.
39:33THERE ARE WAYS TO GET THINGS TO
39:37RE-SPARKLE.
39:38MID-LIFE CRISIS IS A PRODUCT OF
39:40GRAYNESS FOR PEOPLE WHOSE LIVES
39:41ARE AMAZING.
39:42>> I HAVE THOUGHT YOU COULD
39:44DIVIDE PEOPLE WHO ARE REALLY
39:46HAPPY VERSUS THOSE WHO ARE
39:48UNHAPPY OR BORED, NOT BY SO MUCH
39:50AS WHAT GOOD THINGS OR BAD
39:52THINGS HAVE HAPPENED TO THEM,
39:53BUT WHETHER THEY FEEL GRATITUDE
39:55EVERY MORNING, EVEN IF BAD
39:56THINGS HAVE HAPPENED, THEY SAY,
39:58I'M A LUCKY CAMPER.
40:00I'M LIVING HERE.
40:02HOW DO YOU INJECT GRATITUDE --
40:04WHICH IS A THEME IN THIS BOOK --
40:06INTO OUR LIVES SO WE, AS YOU PUT
40:08IT, LOOK AGAIN AND REVITALIZE
40:10OURSELVES?
40:10>> OKAY.
40:12WORKING WITH A NEUROSCIENTIST
40:14TAUGHT ME TO UNDERSTAND WHY
40:16GRATITUDE WORKS.
40:16I HADN'T GOTTEN THAT BEFORE.
40:19THE REASON IS THAT WITH
40:21GRATITUDE, YOU ARE DISTANCING
40:22YOURSELF FROM SOMETHING THAT YOU
40:25WOULD OTHERWISE -- YOU MIGHT
40:27DISTANCE YOURSELF WITH GRATITUDE
40:29FROM, LET'S SAY, YOU HAVE
40:30FRIENDS WHO ARE AMAZING, AND
40:33ORDINARILY IN THE DAY, YOU ARE
40:34ENJOYING YOUR FRIENDS.
40:35YOU ARE NOT THINKING HOW AMAZING
40:37THEY ARE.
40:38WHEN YOU ARE GRATEFUL, YOU ARE
40:42HABITUATING, CREATING THIS IN
40:43YOUR HEAD.
40:43YOU SEE THEM FROM A DISTANCE AS
40:46SOMEONE -- HOW DID I GET SO
40:48LUCKY TO HAVE FRIENDS LIKE THAT?
40:50IF YOU ARE GRATEFUL YOU ARE A
40:51SPOUSE WHO CAN STAND YOU AND IS
40:55FUN AND AMAZING, IF YOU HAVE
40:57GRATITUDE, YOU ARE NOT JUST
40:58SAYING THIS IS THE PERSON I LIVE
41:00WITH, YOU ARE SAYING, HOW DID I
41:01GET SO LUCKY AS TO HAVE THAT.
41:05>> YOU WORK WITH THE
41:07NEUROSCIENTIST.
41:07YOU OFTEN DO YOUR BOOKS WITH
41:10SOMEBODY ELSE.
41:11WHY DID YOU PICK A
41:13NEUROSCIENTIST.
41:13WHAT DID YOU LEARN ABOUT THE
41:14SCIENCE OF OUR BRAIN THAT HELPED
41:16INFORM THIS BOOK?
41:19>> OKAY.
41:19THERE'S 1,000 BOOKS ON HUMAN
41:21BEHAVIOR AND THE MIND.
41:22THIS IS A VERY KIND OF
41:25INTRIGUING ASPECT OF CURRENT
41:27CULTURE.
41:28A REAL NEUROSCIENTIST KNOWS
41:30THINGS THAT PEOPLE, LIKE ME, WHO
41:32AREN'T NEUROSCIENTISTS, DON'T
41:35KNOW.
41:36ONE THING SHE ELICITED IS THAT
41:39IF PEOPLE ARE TELLING THINGS
41:41THAT AREN'T TRUE, THEY WILL GET
41:44USED TO THAT AND ACCOMMODATE TO
41:46THAT, IF THEY ARE INCENTIVIZED
41:51TO LIE.
41:51WHAT HAPPENS IN THE BRAIN IS
41:56I
41:58INTERESTING.
41:58THERE'S A PART OF THE BRAIN THAT
41:59IS BASICALLY THE NON-TECHNICAL
42:00TERM ON FIRE.
42:01PEOPLE HATE THEIR OWN LYING.
42:03AS THEY LIE MORE AND MORE AND
42:06MORE, IT QUIETS DOWN UNTIL IN
42:08THE COURSE OF A DAY, IT ISN'T
42:11NOTICING THEY ARE LYING.
42:13THAT GIVES YOU A VIVID PICTURE
42:15ABOUT HOW THE BRAIN HAD DOES TH.
42:25IT ALSO IS LITERALLY TRUE THAT
42:28IF THERE ARE COLORS ALL AROUND
42:29AND YOU STARE AT THE MIDDLE OF
42:33AN IMAGE, IT WILL TURN GRAY.
42:36NEUROSCIENCE CAN GIVE YOU
42:37EXAMPLES LIKE THAT.
42:38>> EXPLAIN TO ME THE TYPE OF
42:41STUDIES YOU DO.
42:42THIS BOOK IS FILLED WITH
42:43SOMEBODY DID THIS STUDY.
42:46I THOUGHT THOSE WERE KIND OF
42:48ANECDOTAL.
42:48IN YOUR BOOK, I REALIZE IT'S
42:50RIGOROUS STUDIES ON HOW THIS
42:52WORKS.
42:52>> OKAY.
42:53THERE ARE ANECDOTES AND THERE
42:55ARE ANECDOTAL STUDIES AND THERE
42:58ARE RIGOROUS STUDIES WHERE YOU
43:00REALLY GET DATA AND YOU
43:01RANDOMIZE.
43:03HERE IS SOMETHING THAT IS A
43:05STUDY, WHICH IS TRYING TO FIGURE
43:07OUT HOW MUCH PEOPLE LIKE THEIR
43:09VACATIONS AND WHEN DO THEY LIKE
43:11THEM THE MOST.
43:12THIS WAS DONE BY THE CO-AUTHOR
43:14OF THE BOOK.
43:15SHE FOUND 43 HOURS INTO A
43:18VACATION TENDS TO BE THE TIME
43:20WHEN PEOPLE ARE MOST UPBEAT
43:21ABOUT THE VACATION.
43:23THE FIRST MAYBE 24 HOURS, THEY
43:24ARE LIKING IT.
43:25BUT THEY ARE FIGURING IT OUT.
43:27AFTER THE 43 HOURS, THEY TEND TO
43:30LIKE IT A LOT, BUT NOT AS MUCH
43:32AS RIGHT THEN.
43:34IF YOU ASK PEOPLE WHAT THEY LIKE
43:35BEST ABOUT A VACATION, THIS IS A
43:39SCIENTIFIC STUDY THAT DOESN'T
43:41INVOLVE THE BRAIN, PEOPLE KEEP
43:45SAYING THE FIRST, THE FIRST TIME
43:46I SAW THE BEACH, FIRST TIME I
43:48SAW THE HOTEL, FIRST TIME I WENT
43:49IN THE WATER.
43:50THAT'S A STRONG CLUE ABOUT THE
43:54POWER OF THIS TO GET US TO SMILE
43:56AND JUMP, MAYBE SING, AND THE
44:00POWER OF HABITUATION TO GET US
44:02TO START TO LIKE THINGS A LITTLE
44:02BIT LESS.
44:04>> IN THIS CASE, WE COULD SAY,
44:06LET'S TAKE A LOT MORE VACATIONS
44:08BUT SHORTER ONES.
44:10LET'S TAKE SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
44:12YOU AND I BOTH HAVE BEEN MARRIED
44:14FOR A LONG TIME TO WONDERFUL
44:16WOMEN.
44:16HOW DO YOU PREVENT THAT SORT OF
44:1943 HOURS AFTER THE MARRIAGE I'M
44:22NO LONGER AS INTERESTED?
44:24>> I THINK FOR BOTH OF US, WE
44:25ARE SO LUCKY THAT WE DON'T NEED
44:27TO THINK ABOUT HOW TO MAKE
44:29THINGS EVEN BETTER, BECAUSE THEY
44:30ARE PERFECT AND AMAZING NOW.
44:34LET'S SAY FOR THE MEDIAN PERSON,
44:36WHO IS VERY LUCKY, BUT WHO HAS
44:38BEEN MARRIED FOR A LONG TIME,
44:39THERE'S A THERAPIST WHO IS
44:43REALLY GREAT ON THIS, AND SHE
44:44SAYS, FIRE NEEDS AIR.
44:47THAT'S A BRILLIANT PHRASE, FIRE
44:50NEEDS AIR.
44:50FOR COUPLES TO SPEND SOME TIME
44:55APART, NOT A LONG TIME, BUT
44:57MAYBE A NIGHT OR MAYBE SOMEONE
44:59GOES AWAY FOR A WEEKEND, CAN BE
45:02REALLY ENERGIZING FOR PEOPLE.
45:13TO THINK WHAT IT WOULD BE LIKE
45:14IF I JUST MET THIS PERSON AND
45:15THEN I GOT TO MARRY THEM, THAT
45:17CAN BE A MENTAL EXERCISE THAT
45:19CAUSES LESS TAKING FOR GRANTED.
45:22>> YOU HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT
45:26THE POSITIVE HABITUATION AND
45:28NEGATIVE.
45:29I WILL TAKE THE NEGATIVE NOW,
45:31WHICH IS, WE GET USED TO BAD
45:34THINGS.
45:34WE GET USED TO A NEIGHBORHOOD
45:35THAT'S FILLED WITH POTHOLES OR
45:37TRASH.
45:38WE GET USED TO PROBLEMS IN OUR
45:39SOCIETY.
45:42WE NO LONGER RISE UP AGAINST
45:43THEM.
45:45ISN'T THAT A PROBLEM FOR BOTH
45:47PEOPLE AND FOR SOCIETY?
45:48>> COMPLETELY.
45:50IF YOU LOOK AT HOW PEOPLE RATE
45:54THEIR COUNTRIES OR THINGS IN
45:55THEIR COUNTRIES, PEOPLE WHO ARE
45:57IN COUNTRIES THAT AREN'T VERY
46:00FREE, CARE LESS ABOUT FREEDOM
46:02THAN PEOPLE DO IN COUNTRIES THAT
46:04ARE FREE, PEOPLE IN COUNTRIES
46:06THAT DON'T HAVE PARTICULARLY
46:07GOOD HEALTH CARE DON'T FOCUS ON
46:09THE IMPORTANCE OF HEALTH CARE
46:11MUCH, THAT YOU CAN GET USED TO
46:12CRUELTY, YOU CAN GET USED TO
46:14CORRUPTION, YOU CAN GET USED TO
46:18AUTHORITARIANISM,
46:19DISCRIMINATION, OPPRESSION.
46:23THAT IS THE EVIL SIDE, LET'S
46:25SAY, OF HABITUATION.
46:28IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO THINK OF
46:30WAYS TO HAVE A CRITICAL DISTANCE
46:31FROM SOMETHING THAT'S NOT VERY
46:33GOOD SO THAT WE CAN STRUGGLE TO
46:34CHANGE IT.
46:36>> HOW DOES SOCIAL MEDIA --
46:39USING SOCIAL MEDIA TOO MUCH
46:41EXACERBATE EITHER THE PROBLEMS
46:43OR GIVE US A SOLUTION OUT OF
46:44THESE PROBLEMS?
46:46>> HERE IS ONE THING THAT'S A
46:47PROBLEM, I THINK, FOR ALL OF US.
46:49IF SOMETHING IS REPEATED A LOT,
46:52WE TEND TO THINK IT'S TRUE.
46:54IT'S JUST HOW THE MIND WORKS.
46:58FAMILIAR, TRUTHIER.
47:00IF YOU HEAR SOMETHING FIVE
47:01TIMES, YOU THINK IT'S TRUE.
47:02THE REASON -- THE TECHNICAL
47:04REASON, IF SOMETHING IS EASY TO
47:06PROCESS IN THE BRAIN, WE TEND TO
47:07THINK IT'S PROBABLY RIGHT.
47:09THAT MEANS THE BRAIN IS GOING TO
47:12BE CREDULOUS WITH RESPECT TO
47:14THINGS FALSE BUT REPEATED.
47:16THAT'S A CHALLENGE FOR ALL
47:19NATIONS.
47:19IT'S ALSO THE CASE THAT IF
47:21PEOPLE ARE USED TO USING SOCIAL
47:23MEDIA, LET'S SAY, A LOT,
47:24CHECKING IT ALL THE TIME, IT'S
47:26AS IF THERE'S A LITTLE THING IN
47:28THEIR MOUTH THAT HURTS A LITTLE
47:30BIT OR IS EMITTING SOME NOISE
47:33THAT THEY ARE USED TO, THEY HAD
47:37A B-- HABITUATE TO IT AND THEY
47:41WON'T FEEL IT UNTIL THEY TAKE IT
47:42OUT OF THEIR MOUTH.
47:43IF PEOPLE TAKE A BREAK FROM
47:45SOCIAL MEDIA, IT MIGHT BE A
47:49FULL-SCALE FULL TURKEY FOR A
47:51MORE OR A MORE MODEST BREAK,
47:53THEIR WELL-BEING TENDS TO
47:53INCREASE.
48:00>> YOU SAY SOCIAL MEDIA CAN
48:01CAUSE DISHONESTY TO HE IS COULD
48:06LA
48:06-- ESCALATE.
48:07>> THERE ARE TWO REASONS WHY.
48:16IF SOMEONE TELLS YOU SOMETHING,
48:19YOU BELIEVE IT.
48:20THE OSOMEONE TELLS YOU TWICE THT
48:24TOM BRADY IS THE GREATEST
48:26QUARTERBACK, THAT HAPPENS TO BE
48:27TRUE, BUT IF YOU HEAR IT TWICE,
48:29YOU ARE MORE LIKELY TO THINK
48:33IT'S TRUE.
48:34T
48:34REPETITION INCREASES A BELIEF IN
48:36THE TRUTH OF THE STATEMENT.
48:37THE OTHER IS TRUTH BIAS.
48:39ON SOCIAL MEDIA, THESE ARE EVIL
48:46TWINS.
48:46THEY TEND TO GET PEOPLE WHO ARE
48:47BELIEVING SOMETHING THAT'S
48:49FALSE.
48:49WE HAD A STUDY WHERE PEOPLE
48:52COULD SAY NOT LIKE BUT TRUST.
48:55YOU DON'T PRESS A LIKE BUTTON.
48:59YOU PRESS TRUST.
49:00THAT WAS EFFECTIVE IN INCREASING
49:03PEOPLE'S BELIEF IN WHAT WAS TRUE
49:04AND INCREASING THE SPREAD OF
49:07THINGS THAT WERE TRUE.
49:08PEOPLE KNEW BEFORE THE FACT THAT
49:10TO GET SOMETHING OTHER THAN THE
49:12TRUST BUTTON WASN'T A VERY HAPPY
49:15MOMENT.
49:15PEOPLE WANTED THE TRUST BUTTON.
49:17>> YOU WRITE ABOUT GERMANY IN
49:19THE 1920s, 1930s IN PARTICULAR,
49:27BEING HADBITUATED TOWARD NAZIIS.
49:30TELL ME HOW THAT CAN APPLY
49:32TODAY.
49:32>> HERE IS SOME VERY CONCERNING
49:36AND VIVID WORK ON THE RISE OF
49:39NAZIISM.
49:39PEOPLE WHO WERE THERE AT THE
49:41TIME SAID, IT WAS A LITTLE LIKE
49:43A FIELD THAT HAD CORN IN IT.
49:46IT KEMENTPT GROWING AND GROWING.
49:49EVENTUALLY, IT WAS OVER YOUR
49:50HEAD.
49:51YOU DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS GOING TO
49:51GET THERE.
49:54THE IDEA WAS THE WAY HITLER
49:56WORKED WAS BY INCREMENTS.
49:58THINGS WERE GETTING WORSE AND
49:59WORSE, BUT IT WASN'T LIKE
50:01COMPLETE HORROR ON DAY ONE OR
50:02TWO OR THREE.
50:05TYPICALLY, THE RISE OF FASCISM
50:07AND TERRIBLE THINGS IS IN
50:10INCREMENTS.
50:10DAY ONE ISN'T GOOD.
50:12BUT THE TRUE HORROR EMERGES OVER
50:14TIME.
50:14I THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY THAT
50:16BOTH IN EUROPE AND THE UNITED
50:18STATES, THERE HAS BEEN SOME
50:19LET'S CALL IT DEMOCRATIC
50:22BACKSLIDING IN WHICH CERTAIN
50:25NORMS OF RESPECT FOR PROCESSES,
50:27RESPECT FOR ONE ANOTHER, A
50:31COMMITMENT TO TRUTH, A
50:32COMMITMENT TO TREATING PEOPLE
50:33WHO DISAGREE WITH YOU AS
50:36PARTICIPANTS IN A SHARED
50:37ENDEAVOR, THAT'S ESSENTIAL FOR
50:41MUTUAL, LET'S SAY, COOPERATION,
50:43THAT ALL OF THOSE HAVE BEEN
50:45UNDER PRESSURE.
50:46NOW IT LOOKS VERY DIFFERENT FROM
50:49EIGHT, NINE, TEN YEARS AGO.
50:54IT MAY BE THAT THE FIELD IS
50:55GETTING POPULATED BY TALLER AND
50:59TALLER CORN.
51:00>> IS THAT TRUE OF GUN VIOLENCE?
51:03LAST YEAR WE HAD 656 MASS
51:06SHOOTINGS.
51:09HAVE WE BECOME HADBITUATED TO
51:11THAT?
51:11>> THERE'S NO QUESTION IF WE HAD
51:13THE FIRST MASS SHOOTING OF GUN
51:15VIOLENCE WHERE CHILDREN WERE
51:16BEING GUNNED DOWN, THE LEVEL OF
51:19OUTRAGE AND DISBELIEF WOULD BE
51:21FAR HIGHER THAN IT IS.
51:23THIS IS A CASE WHERE THE
51:26REPETITION OF THE UNDERLYING
51:28HORROR REDUCES PEOPLE'S
51:29REACTION.
51:32>> LET ME GET SPECIFIC ON RACIAL
51:36AND GENDER DISCRIMINATION THAT
51:37COMES ALONG.
51:39YOU SAY THAT WE CAN AS SOCIETY
51:44GET HABITUATED TO THAT BUT
51:47PEOPLE INVOLVED AREN'T.
51:49>> WITH RESPECT TO GENDER, IT IS
51:53OFTEN THE CASE THAT IN A
51:55COMMUNITY PEOPLE ARE JUST USED
51:57TO SOMETHING.
52:00IT MIGHT BE COMMENTS THAT ARE
52:01DEMEANING.
52:02IT MIGHT BE AN ALLOCATION OF
52:04LABOR THAT'S UNFAIR.
52:05IT MIGHT BE SOMETHING WORSE.
52:07IT MIGHT BE SEXUAL HARASSMENT OR
52:11SOMETHING.
52:11TO GET A PURCHASE ON OUR OWN
52:14PRACTICES, I REMEMBER A TIME
52:16WHEN THERE WASN'T A TERM SEXUAL
52:19HARASSMENT.
52:19IT JUST WASN'T A TERM.
52:21SEXUAL HARASSMENT EXISTED, BUT
52:24THERE WANT A WORD FOR IT.
52:27KATHERINE McKINNON MORE THAN ANY
52:30OTHER MADE PUBLIC THE TERM.
52:31I'M NOT SURE IF IT'S HER TERM.
52:33SHE WROTE A BOOK CALLED "SEXUAL
52:35HARASSMENT OF WORKING WOMEN."
52:36THAT WAS FULL OF LEGAL ANALYSIS,
52:37BUT ALSO TALES OF SEXUAL
52:40HARASSMENT.
52:43GOSH, FOR MEN IN PARTICULAR AND
52:50FOR MANY WOMEN THOUGHT, WHAT
52:52WORLD AM I IN THAT THESE EXIST?
52:55THAT CAN BE DONE WITH RESPECT TO
52:58RACE ALSO WHERE THERE'S, LET'S
53:00SAY, EGREGIOUS DISCRIMINATION,
53:04THAT MAYBE EVEN PEOPLE WHO ARE
53:06ENGAGED IN THE DISCRIMINATION OR
53:08THE COMMENTS, THEY ARE NOT
53:13SEPARATED FROM THE PRACTICE.
53:14THIS IS WHAT THEY KNOW.
53:16>> THE PEOPLE WHO ARE THE
53:19VICTIMS OF RACIAL
53:21DISCRIMINATION, THEY DON'T GET
53:25HABITUATED -- I REMEMBER TALKING
53:26ABOUT ROBERT E. LEE, I SAID I'M
53:32USED TO THAT.
53:33OTHERS SAY, I PAY ATTENTION.
53:36TELL MOEE HOW THAT WORKS.
53:40>> LET'S JUST SAY IT'S
53:45DISCRIMINATING AGAINST KAT
53:48CATHOLICS.
53:49NON-CATHOLICS THINK IT'S LIFE
53:50AND THAT'S HOW IT IS.
53:51FOR SOMEONE WHO IS CATHOLIC,
53:52IT'S GOING TO BE LIKE A SLAP IN
53:53THE FACE.
53:57THEY MIGHT SEE IT AS PART OF
53:59THEIR CULTURE, BUT IT'S NOT
54:01SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T STING
54:02WHEN YOU GET SLAPPED IN THE
54:03FACE.
54:05FOR A PERSON OF COLOR, THERE ARE
54:10PLACES AND MAYBE STATES OR
54:14MONTHS WHERE YOU GET SLAPPED IN
54:15THE FACE A LOT.
54:18GETTING SLAPPED IN THE FACE
54:19ALWAYS HURTS.
54:20EVEN IF THERE'S NO PARTICULAR
54:22WHITE PERSON WHO HAS DONE THE
54:23SLAP OR EVEN IF NO WHITE PERSON
54:26IN THE VICINITY INTENDED THE
54:28SLAP, THE SLAP IS THERE.
54:30IT MIGHT BE BUILT INTO A
54:31PRACTICE.
54:31IT MIGHT BE BUILT INTO SOME KIND
54:34OF LANGUAGE.
54:35>> AS A SOCIETY, GIVE US SORT OF
54:39ONE OR TWO PIECES OF ADVICE YOU
54:42WOULD GIVE RIGHT NOW, GIVEN OUR
54:43CURRENT SITUATION, FOR US TO
54:44LOOK AGAIN AS A SOCIETY.
54:47>> TAKE A CRITICAL DISTANCE FROM
54:52PRACTICES THAT ARE IN OUR
54:55SOCIETY.
54:55IMAGINE THAT THIS WAS THE FIRST
54:57TIME YOU SAW THEM OR IMAGINE IT
54:59WAS THE LAST TIME YOU EVER WERE
55:01GOING TO SEE THEM.
55:02IF YOU DO THAT EXERCISE, THEN
55:05SOME THINGS WILL SEEM LIKE,
55:07GOSH, WE DON'T HAVE TO LIVE WITH
55:09THIS, AND OTHER THINGS WILL MAKE
55:11US THINK, HOW DID WE GET SO
55:15LUCKY AS TO LIVE WITH THAT.
55:17>> CASS SUNSTEIN, THANK YOU FOR
55:19JOINING US.
55:19>> THANK YOU.
55:19GREAT PLEASURE.
55:22>>> FINALLY, WE LEAVE YOU WITH
55:23THESE BEAUTIFUL PICTURES OF
55:25CHERRY BLOSSOMS ADORNING THE
55:27STREETS OF TOKYO.
55:28MARKING THE BEGINNING OF THE
55:30INFAMOUS SEASON WHICH BRINGS
55:32MILLIONS OF TOURISTS TO JAPAN
55:33EVERY SPRING.
55:34YEAR ON YEAR, THE FLOWERS ARE
55:36BLOOMING EARLIER THAN EXPECTED,
55:38WHICH SADLY SCIENTISTS BELIEVE
55:39IS LINKED TO CLIMATE CHANGE.
55:41THAT DOES IT FOR OUR PROGRAM
55:46TONIGHT.
55:46IF YOU WANT TO FWIENIND OUT WHA
55:47COMING UP, SIGN UP FOR OUR
55:48NEWSLETTER.