- 2 years ago
The Boston Celtics' regular season is over, and the team is gearing up for the 2024 NBA Playoffs while waiting to hear back on whether any members of the organization will take home some hardware for their league-best season.
But it is not just Boston in the title hunt this postseason suiting up with letters on the front that read "Celtics". The team's Portland-based G League affiliate, the Maine Celtics, are also in the mix to hang a banner, with Maine poised to win their first-ever G League title in that league's finals' decisive Game 3 vs. the Oklahoma City Blue.
To get properly up to speed on the Maine Celtics' title run and Boston's postseason hardware potential, the hosts of the CLNS Media "Celtics Lab" podcast caught up with Noa Dalzell of Celtics Blog.
We get into Maine's surprising journey to the G league Finals, and take a microscope to which Cs might win what awards. We even get into some New England-isms and their icky origins on what, in the City of Boston, was "Mike Gorman Day."
The Celtics Lab podcast is brought to you by Prize Picks.
If you enjoy this pod, check out the "How Bout Them Celtics," "First to the Floor," and the many other New England sports podcasts available on the CLNS Media network.
But it is not just Boston in the title hunt this postseason suiting up with letters on the front that read "Celtics". The team's Portland-based G League affiliate, the Maine Celtics, are also in the mix to hang a banner, with Maine poised to win their first-ever G League title in that league's finals' decisive Game 3 vs. the Oklahoma City Blue.
To get properly up to speed on the Maine Celtics' title run and Boston's postseason hardware potential, the hosts of the CLNS Media "Celtics Lab" podcast caught up with Noa Dalzell of Celtics Blog.
We get into Maine's surprising journey to the G league Finals, and take a microscope to which Cs might win what awards. We even get into some New England-isms and their icky origins on what, in the City of Boston, was "Mike Gorman Day."
The Celtics Lab podcast is brought to you by Prize Picks.
If you enjoy this pod, check out the "How Bout Them Celtics," "First to the Floor," and the many other New England sports podcasts available on the CLNS Media network.
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SportsTranscript
00:00 [MUSIC]
00:09 All righty, welcome to the South podcast by price picks the exclusive fantasy
00:13 basketball partner of the CLNS media network.
00:15 And if you enjoyed this podcast, check out the how about themselves podcast
00:18 first to the floor and the many other New England sports podcasts available on
00:21 the CLNS media network.
00:22 We're talking about the main Celtics today and
00:25 what hopefully is a G League championship for them Monday night.
00:28 We're talking about the end of the season and
00:30 if any Celtics are going to win any awards and to do all of that.
00:33 We welcome in from Celtics blog and from like literally every other outlet I've
00:38 ever heard of no one tells out no what's up.
00:40 >> Hey, nice to be here.
00:42 Thanks for having me.
00:42 >> I'm sure people listening are familiar with your work but for
00:46 anyone who is not among many other things Noah is like the point person for
00:51 main Celtics this year.
00:53 So in the lab portion of the programming Noah we're going to talk to you about
00:57 not just like what to expect from the Celtics main Celtics on Monday but
01:02 what that experience has been like.
01:05 Justin, how are you?
01:07 >> Awake which is pretty good.
01:10 We are recording very early my local time.
01:13 It's just a little bit after seven o'clock and I think it's about nine o'clock for
01:16 y'all.
01:17 But we're up early for a good reason.
01:20 It's Mike Gorman day.
01:21 >> In the city of Boston, legally it is Mike Gorman day.
01:25 Thank you, Mayor Wood.
01:27 >> Yeah, Mike Gorman is calling his last regular season game this afternoon.
01:32 Noah's got to be there to cover it.
01:34 So we got to make sure that we were up early.
01:37 All right, Noah, why don't we start with the main stuff actually,
01:41 we can do the news later.
01:42 I mean, the news is that the season is ending and
01:46 the Celtics don't give a damn about what's happening.
01:49 So Noah, if you're cool with it, you want to start right with main?
01:53 >> Yeah, let's do it.
01:54 There's literally nothing I know we're talking about more than main.
01:56 So this is great.
01:57 >> I know, it's so true.
01:59 I will say that Noah, prior to, who did they play on Friday?
02:06 >> This was Friday?
02:08 >> The regular Celtics, yeah.
02:09 >> The regular Celtics played, who did they play?
02:12 >> Charlotte, Charlotte, Charlotte.
02:13 >> Yes.
02:14 >> The night before, you were talking in loud game about Drew Peterson.
02:18 And then Drew Peterson came to town in garbage time, he looked pretty good.
02:22 >> He looked great, yeah.
02:24 He's been having a great finals run.
02:26 It's weird because this is such a well balanced team that if they win tomorrow
02:29 and they win the championship, there's gonna be a finals MVP.
02:32 And he looks like he could be the front runner right now.
02:34 So a lot of people are gonna owe me an apology if that happens.
02:38 >> Wait, that's a hot take, you think Drew Peterson would be-
02:40 >> Yeah.
02:41 >> Well, I don't think- >> So I was, sorry.
02:43 >> Okay, go ahead.
02:44 >> No, I was just gonna say, a couple of podcasts ago,
02:47 I suggested that there was at least a chance that he could get the last
02:51 open roster spot over Nemi, not likely but possible.
02:54 So I'm feeling a little bit justified as well.
02:57 >> Yeah, I think Nemi was a little bit of a shoo in for that just because,
03:02 the other two two ways really hadn't spent any time in Boston.
03:05 So we played for our round table, we did a little game of who would get 15 spot.
03:10 And I chose Drew Peterson because someone else already had Kata.
03:13 But I do think he's not the most valuable player on this team.
03:16 JD Davidson is the most valuable player on this team.
03:18 He runs the show.
03:19 He's the engine offensively, he gets everybody organized.
03:22 Kata has been defensively kind of the difference maker and
03:25 he's been so impactful almost every game that he's gone up to main.
03:28 But just looking off like stats, it's been, it's a three game series, right?
03:32 And he had a 20 point first game and a 29 point second game and
03:36 pretty much everybody struggled in the second game.
03:37 So if he has a strong third game and they win, he'll be a strong candidate.
03:44 Cuz you never know, I mean, if it was a seven game series,
03:46 I think you probably would balance out and it would probably be somebody else but
03:50 could be.
03:52 >> Wow, I hadn't really thought about that.
03:53 So I don't know, the game will come and go, I suppose, I'm curious.
03:59 Do you think they'll win?
04:00 >> I think so, they look amazing in game one,
04:04 but they really just look more dominant than Ogeisi in every step of the way.
04:09 And then Lindy Waters got called up for game two and that made a big difference.
04:14 He had like 27 on 10 of 13 shooting and
04:17 was just the most dominant offensive player on the court by far.
04:20 And I'm almost certain he'll be back with the blue on tomorrow for game three.
04:27 So they're gonna have to take that into account.
04:28 But really the main thing that happened in game two is they could not make a shot.
04:32 Like JD Davidson couldn't make a shot,
04:34 DJ Stewart couldn't make a shot, Jordan Walsh couldn't make a shot.
04:38 Mimi couldn't make a shot, Mimi was one for six.
04:40 Like when has he ever won for six?
04:41 That's what's on the line for him.
04:43 I actually bumped into Jordan Walsh's parents at the game on Thursday.
04:48 And his dad was at that game and he'll be at the game tomorrow in Portland.
04:52 They've been kind of traveling all over the place keeping up with Jordan.
04:55 He was saying like, it wasn't that they played bad.
04:57 It was like literally there was a lid on the rim and we're not worried.
05:00 Like that's probably not gonna happen again.
05:01 So that was his analysis of the game.
05:03 I was watching the game simultaneously while watching the Celtics game in
05:06 the ninth floor.
05:07 So I didn't get to see every little detail, but
05:10 it certainly looked like just one too many people were struggling offensively.
05:13 >> Interesting.
05:17 So I've only been to one main Celtics game and I went as a fan.
05:21 But it's a pretty, yeah, you were there too.
05:24 It's a pretty small gym.
05:25 Such that I'm curious, I guess I don't really know how much I think home
05:31 court advantage actually matters in the NBA.
05:33 I think probably here and there but not, it's probably overblown.
05:37 But it's such a small gym and these are less experienced guys,
05:40 usually younger guys, with exception on the main Celtics.
05:44 How much do you think home court matters?
05:46 >> A lot.
05:47 I think it matters a lot.
05:49 I would say probably matters more than in the NBA.
05:52 The atmosphere at the Portland Expo is absolutely electric.
05:55 And part of that is because they have, it's a small gym, so
05:59 it feels like it was a high school gym, right?
06:00 So that's who's in there and you fill that up all the way and
06:04 it gets loud and you feel every single motion.
06:07 You go on a run, it's like you feel that a lot more than in the garden, honestly.
06:11 There's no manufactured noise.
06:13 It's just the authentic fans and there's heckling.
06:17 There's fans that sit courtside,
06:19 literally right next to the opposing team's bench behind the coach.
06:23 So the whole time the coach is standing in front of fans,
06:25 not in front of his own team.
06:27 I think that's just a fixture of how they've set up the arena.
06:30 But I was thinking in game one, I mean, they were heckling nonstop.
06:33 I was like, this is so annoying for the coach who's trying to turn back to talk
06:37 to his players and it's actually not his players behind him.
06:38 It's a bunch of seasoned ticket holders from Portland.
06:41 So I think there are some nuances just from the fan side and
06:44 then also just routine based.
06:45 Like you said, Cam, these aren't professionals in the same way that NBA
06:49 professionals are, that they're used to road trips or
06:51 used to playing in all sorts of environments.
06:53 I mean, yes, a lot of them are college players, but
06:55 a lot of them are also like 1920, right?
06:57 And so for them to go to OKC and all of a sudden now they're playing in an NBA arena
07:02 that the other team is familiar with.
07:04 And they were up at 6 AM, they went from Portland to Logan to flying commercials.
07:09 So it's not the same as an NBA team from that sense as well.
07:12 So I think they're gonna benefit from being at home.
07:14 That being said, they're also gonna be on a back to back because they're all playing
07:17 today and they also played on Friday and they played on Thursday.
07:21 So I don't think the championship is like they're willing to rest all these guys for
07:25 it because they're, I think Joe and the rest of the staff decided that,
07:28 them getting NBA run is also important.
07:30 But a little bit of the advantage that they get maybe is gonna be
07:33 eliminated because they're gonna be traveling from Boston and
07:36 they're gonna be, they don't have a rest day today, right?
07:38 They haven't been with the rest of the team.
07:39 And those four guys are probably the four most important guys on the team.
07:42 >> Not to- >> I have a couple questions about
07:47 the experience of covering the G League.
07:51 On your end of the G League, before I ask them, I have a very small mission for
07:57 you, put it in their ear to come to Mexico City so that way I can see them.
08:04 [LAUGH]
08:05 Because that's very high on their list of priorities.
08:07 >> Yeah. >> It's been a couple seasons now that
08:09 I've been covering the Capitanis and they haven't come to Mexico City.
08:12 I don't know if they're ever going to come to Mexico City, but
08:15 I really hope they do.
08:16 My experience covering the Capitanis here is that it is a very unusual
08:23 situation in the G League and that we usually have several hundred,
08:28 it's a very minimum and usually several thousand for bigger games.
08:31 People in attendance, I'm wondering, how are the main Celtics attended?
08:35 Do they drive big crowds?
08:37 I mean, I'm sure they are now because they're in the finals, but-
08:39 >> Yeah, no, they have.
08:40 And I attended a bunch of regular season games.
08:42 I would say on the weekends, there's a much bigger crowd than during the week
08:45 because it's a lot of families.
08:47 It's cheap get in prices as well.
08:49 So you can take a family of four for 50 bucks and
08:53 watch a main Celtics game in the afternoon and it's a great atmosphere.
08:57 Like a Tuesday night, I think is a little bit different.
08:59 But again, it's a small gym, so it's easy to fill up.
09:01 And even the first playoff game was the day there was a big storm up here.
09:04 And I think the Celtics organization,
09:07 even the Celtics dancers didn't even come because the roads were so slippery.
09:10 And so that game was not as well attended.
09:13 But even so, when everybody that's there is very engaged.
09:17 It's not like, I feel like unfortunately for TD Garden, especially in the playoffs,
09:20 the tickets are so expensive that you end up having a lot of corporate fans and
09:23 not real people that want to be there so badly.
09:26 That's why I sometimes think the regular season has a better atmosphere than
09:28 the playoffs at points.
09:30 It's just real authentic fans that could afford to go.
09:34 And with Maine, you don't have that barrier to entry.
09:36 You might have it a little bit tomorrow because the get in prices are 100 bucks.
09:39 And yeah, court side is 600 bucks, whereas everything's super annoying.
09:44 The last game one was $15, so they're capitalizing on this.
09:48 But so I don't know if that will impact things at all.
09:50 But yeah, the atmosphere is really, really amazing.
09:52 And my dad has been going literally as a fan.
09:54 He's a pro basketball, he's as big of a basketball fan as you can possibly imagine.
10:00 And he thinks the Maine Celtics games are the greatest thing in the world to attend.
10:03 So that's his, and I agree, honestly, I really love the environment there.
10:08 >> Very cool, thanks.
10:09 >> Yeah, the one time that I went, I felt the same thing.
10:13 The energy is really palpable.
10:15 I'm really fascinated by that take that regular season games are more fun than
10:19 playoff games.
10:21 I suspect you're right about that.
10:22 I mean, it's the cost to get into Fenway or
10:26 TD Garden during the playoffs is- >> Yeah.
10:28 >> It's gross, I'm gonna bite my tongue,
10:31 cuz we could do this for like 20 more minutes.
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11:37 [MUSIC]
11:40 >> All right, Noah, a little bit more about Maine and
11:42 then we'll do some other stuff.
11:44 You asked Joe about this the other day, so I'll kind of ask you to repeat yourself for
11:49 anyone who missed it.
11:50 But tell us about not just the practical connectivity between Maine and
11:54 Boston, but also the cultural connectivity between Maine and Boston.
11:59 >> Yeah, there are a lot of parallels, and I didn't realize it right away and
12:02 I wouldn't have expected to identify them.
12:04 But this team is modeled in a lot of ways after Boston's, and
12:08 that means a couple different things.
12:10 One is there's this understanding that there's a lot of talent on this roster and
12:15 that it's not just one or two guys that's gonna go ISO and lead them.
12:18 That there's at any given night, someone might step up and
12:21 people are sacrificing, guys could be going off for 25 points.
12:25 But maybe somebody else has the hot hand and
12:27 they're willing to defer to that person.
12:28 A little bit of a similar dynamic with the telling story lineup where there's just
12:32 so much talent that we all know Drew Holliday could be averaging more than
12:35 whatever he's averaging, 11, 12 points a game.
12:37 But that's not his concern right now.
12:39 A lot harder to find that kind of buying in the G League when guys are literally
12:42 vying to get into the NBA and trying to up their scoring averages.
12:45 I think this team has found a way to put ego aside in pursuit of playing well
12:49 together.
12:50 And a lot of that is this understanding that if they win,
12:52 that's gonna benefit everybody.
12:53 And guys like DJ Stewart, he's electric.
12:56 I don't know how much you guys have seen him play, but he pretty much single handedly
13:00 turned both of the first two playoff games around with just insane fourth quarter
13:03 outbursts, and he comes off the bench, right?
13:05 And so that's something that he's had to do and he's totally bought into it.
13:09 There was no, Jordan Walsh was praising him for it after one of the playoff games,
13:14 just being like this guy's amazing and he's backing up JD and
13:17 that he's just okay with that.
13:18 He's never given anybody attitude over it.
13:19 He's never been frustrated visibly or anything like that.
13:22 So I think there's that component.
13:23 But then more of the things that have stood out to me is like,
13:26 just I go through, I've done a lot of these press tours with Blaine Miller,
13:28 who's the head coach of the main Celtics.
13:31 He's different than Joe.
13:32 He's a lot more talkative, like you ask him a question,
13:34 he'll go on for a few minutes.
13:35 So he's an easier quote, I guess I would say.
13:38 But a lot of the things he says are very similar.
13:40 Like he's very much rooted in analytics.
13:43 You know, sometimes Joe starts talking and it's like,
13:44 you can just tell he's this like basketball numbers guy.
13:47 And he, once he goes in that direction, it's like,
13:49 you can tell that's like what he's really feeling the most alive about it,
13:51 about it all, I guess.
13:53 Blaine is the same way.
13:54 And the 25 point quarters is like his go-to thing that they, you know,
13:58 the Celtics often have talked about this as well,
14:01 that the goal is to hold opponents to a 25,
14:03 to as many 25 point quarters as you can.
14:06 And Blaine basically said, you know,
14:07 you are analytics show us that if you hold an opposing team to three 25 point
14:11 quarters, you have an 80% chance of winning the game.
14:14 And if you hold an opposing team to four 25 point quarters,
14:17 you have like a 99% chance of winning the game.
14:19 I don't know if that's exactly the same for a G league and the NBA,
14:23 but that's, that's the philosophy that he's kind of really stressed to the guy.
14:27 So this is the most important thing you can be thinking about is like every
14:30 quarter we have to hold the opposing team 25 points.
14:33 And one of the playoff games, they did it four times.
14:35 And he said like, as soon as I realized we were on track for that,
14:36 even though we could not make a shot, we were able to win that game.
14:40 And that's something that I think he learned from Joe that, you know,
14:43 Blaine and his staff spend the training camp, you know, in Boston.
14:47 They regularly communicate Joe joke, you know, I'm not much of a call guy,
14:50 but we do talk all the time.
14:51 So there's that component.
14:52 And then obviously you see guys like Kata, Peterson, Davis, and Walsh.
14:56 They were in Boston on Friday and like they fit right in.
14:58 And I know it didn't seem like they were guys that hadn't been with the team
15:01 all year.
15:02 It didn't seem like there was much of a learning curve.
15:03 So I think there's, there's the practical sense as well,
15:06 where like when the player development team is so connected that when guys move
15:10 up and down, like Kata does, you know,
15:11 is more than anybody else this year, there's no, you know,
15:14 he doesn't really miss it, miss a beat.
15:17 - I guess it's worth pointing out for people not from New England,
15:19 Portland is, I guess you've done the drive like between two and three hours
15:24 on a good day, right?
15:25 - Yeah. Yeah.
15:26 It's like, it should be two hours unless there's traffic.
15:29 - Which it can be.
15:30 So it's not small potatoes to a day before be like, oh,
15:33 we're putting you on a bus.
15:34 Now you got to go down to Boston.
15:36 I mean, other G League situations, it's more complicated, but yeah,
15:40 just the ability for the guys to stay flexible is pretty good.
15:44 But to your point, like they welcome them really well.
15:48 I love the thing you brought up the other day and you were just talking about now,
15:52 that the 25-point quarter thing.
15:54 I think that's something that we see a lot with Missoula is there are just certain
15:59 thresholds in a game of basketball that are almost binary in his mind,
16:02 or at least he treats them as such.
16:04 And so, for example, if, you know,
16:06 Boston gave up multiple quarters more than 25 points,
16:11 statistically, they should have lost.
16:12 And I think he compartmentalizes losses really well, as in he sees the data and
16:17 he's like, yeah, that's how you lose a basketball game.
16:19 Okay.
16:20 And so, when we have to talk to him after the game and we want to ask him about,
16:24 like, hustle or making changes or like we try to tease out an answer for him,
16:30 it's, you know, there's a list of several factors that either happen or don't.
16:35 And when they don't happen, they don't happen and he moves on.
16:37 And it's a fascinating way to view basketball.
16:41 To your point, it makes for awful coverage if you have to write about the game.
16:45 But there is something admirable about making it that simple,
16:51 even if you ask the question, the wrong question or ask it incorrectly,
16:56 Joe, isn't very nice about it.
16:59 - I mean, somebody's got to replace Pop, right?
17:01 - Yeah, that's another, I'm biting my tongue again.
17:07 Noah, anything else about the Maine experience that you want to share?
17:15 I mean, like, be proud of yourself for a second.
17:18 It's pretty cool.
17:20 Well, I guess let me ask this.
17:21 When did you, what was your first trip to Maine?
17:25 Why did you do that?
17:25 And like, why do you keep going back?
17:28 - Yeah, so my first trip to Maine was in November, December.
17:31 I forget, it was one of the earliest regular season games.
17:34 And basically, it was because, A, I think from a coverage standpoint,
17:38 like, you can do so much more in Maine than you can in Boston.
17:41 Like, every time I go to Maine, I get four one-on-one interviews with the
17:44 players that I want to talk to.
17:45 And I love the PR staff there.
17:47 Evans is the best.
17:48 He's been so accommodating and so helpful.
17:50 So just from that standpoint, like, it's been a great experience to be able to be
17:54 in a press room where I'm the only reporter and I can just ask a million
17:56 questions.
17:57 And, you know, normally, you get maybe one or two questions in a night, right?
18:00 So it's been great just for me as a first-year reporter to be able
18:04 to get that experience.
18:05 But honestly, more than that, like, I think there's so many stories to be told
18:09 in Maine, and I wish I had more time and I had more capacity and I was doing all
18:13 this full-time that I could really write all the things that I want to write.
18:16 But like, Tony Snell is an NBA vet in Maine.
18:19 He's been in the league for 10 years.
18:21 And his locker is next to Jordan Walsh's locker, and they're best friends.
18:24 Like, Jordan literally told me, like, we are the closest of any two people
18:27 on this team.
18:28 And I think that's so cool.
18:29 Like, that needs to be told, and I'm working on a story about it.
18:32 So I kind of just leaked it.
18:33 But I think there's a lot of things that are super worth, like,
18:37 unpacking there.
18:38 Like, guys like DJ Stewart, who, you know, can get as hot as anybody I've ever seen
18:42 play basketball, and he's right now is a bench player in the G League that I think
18:46 could be in the NBA if a couple of things fall his way.
18:48 And so, to me, it's just, you know, there's...
18:52 In Boston, and I love covering the Celtics, and, you know, I wouldn't pay
18:55 that for anything.
18:55 But in Boston, you know, there are so many of us that are there that it's really hard
18:59 to find new stories.
19:00 And at the end of the day, when you Google, like, with coverage from Friday's
19:03 game, like, I wrote a story about Peyton Pritchard, as did, like,
19:06 20 other people, right?
19:07 Because he got his career high, which is fine.
19:09 You know, we all need it for our respective outlets.
19:12 But I've been able to get original reporting in Maine, which has been,
19:15 you know, my favorite part of this.
19:16 And so, from that standpoint, it's been really cool.
19:18 And then just seeing people...
19:20 I think the fact that you could be selfless, play selfless basketball with,
19:24 you know, the fact...
19:24 You know, some of these guys are making $50,000 a year.
19:26 They're all staying in a hotel downtown, shuttling back and forth.
19:30 Like, they know they're not going to be teammates next year, and yet,
19:32 they're saying, like, "We have one goal, and it's to win a championship."
19:35 And that's so much more impressive to be able to have that mentality in the G League
19:38 than in Boston.
19:39 In Boston, obviously, like, of course, you want to win an 18th banner and, like,
19:42 be a hero in the city.
19:44 Like, it's different in Portland when, like, midseason guys are getting shuffled,
19:47 people are getting called up, traded, and you'll still be able to keep that
19:50 in mind and prioritize that.
19:52 I just think it's super cool.
19:53 So it's been, honestly, probably my favorite part of covering the team this
19:56 year has been the main coverage.
19:58 - I'm actually really happy that you're doing that because I'm trying to do the
20:03 same thing in Mexico City in terms of giving the G League the kind of coverage
20:07 I think it deserves.
20:08 It seems...
20:09 Like, we have some visiting teams.
20:11 I won't name names, but I've actually had some teams when I've asked for media
20:14 availability of their players, and they're just like, "No."
20:17 And I was like, "What?"
20:19 So it's something they're still getting used to as well.
20:23 And I think that more people showing up interested is going to eventually start
20:28 acclimating them and making a space also in the media sphere for that coverage.
20:34 - Yeah, and it certainly helps.
20:36 I think it was kind of a nice reward for me that they ended up making this
20:38 playoff run because they could have just had, like, they were an 11-11 basketball
20:42 team when I was covering them, right?
20:43 Like, they were a 500-team most of the season.
20:45 So the fact that now they're on, like, the first-ever finals appearance,
20:48 like, break of a championship certainly helps.
20:51 But yeah, I think that, you know, a lot of times it just depends on the PR staff.
20:53 And I think Evans and the main Celtics team, like, they recognize that the more
20:56 media attention, the better.
20:58 And so they've been really flexible with that.
21:00 - Yeah, I think they made the playoffs for you.
21:03 - I think so too, yeah.
21:04 - I've heard multiple people, like, older and wiser than me say the best way to
21:11 become a sports writer is to do the high school beat.
21:13 And the most rewarding way to be a sports writer is the high school beat.
21:16 And I suspect that, like, the G League is pretty close to that.
21:23 Yeah, it's cool.
21:24 I mean, it's cool to always hear stories about Maine.
21:27 And also, the point you raise is a fascinating one.
21:30 We don't have to dwell on it.
21:31 I'll bite my tongue a little bit.
21:32 But yeah, when we write articles, like, we're thinking more about search engine
21:37 optimization than a unique bend on the 50 words that we get from Joe Mazzulla
21:42 after the game.
21:44 - Not me, because I don't even know how many views Celtics' wall gets.
21:46 So I actually have no idea.
21:47 But in theory, yes, I know a lot of you guys see that stuff.
21:51 I have no idea how ours do, honestly.
21:53 - I think the coverage is better when you don't have to think about that,
21:56 but capitalism.
21:58 - Yeah.
21:58 - Well, to your point, like, there's only so many unique stories most of the people
22:03 in the press get to tell.
22:04 So then, like, if we can't tell something unique, then we have to gamify it for the
22:08 algorithms or whatever.
22:10 Which is to say, first of all, when you do get to do unique reporting,
22:13 it's a lot of fun.
22:14 But also, if you're a listener, please like and subscribe to the people
22:17 that you like because you have to tell the algorithm you like them or else you
22:22 don't get to see their stuff.
22:24 So if you like Noah, go find Noah's stuff.
22:26 If you like us, please like and subscribe to us.
22:28 Anyways, let's change gears.
22:30 Let's do the second part of the lab, which is not a full slate of end
22:35 of season awards, but what's going to happen with the Celtics and the
22:39 end of season awards.
22:40 As in, will any of the Celtics, the people rather who work for the Celtics,
22:45 get any hardware?
22:48 Let's start with the most obvious, which is MVP.
22:50 We had Tim Pontemps come on around the All-Star game, tell us, "Hey,
22:55 he's not going to win and this is why."
22:57 And it was chalk.
22:58 It was a breakdown of, like, what voters do and do not value.
23:04 Everyone here believes it's Nikola Jokic who's going to win.
23:07 Is that correct?
23:08 - Yeah, I think so.
23:09 - I dig it.
23:11 Noah, what, if anything, do you think Tatum could do, maybe next season and the
23:15 season after, to win MVP?
23:17 Or is that a foolish wish?
23:20 - I think it's a little bit of a foolish wish because this team is not modeled
23:26 around, like, someone like him going for MVP.
23:29 Like, I think that he's not in the position to do it.
23:32 But, I mean, if he really wants to do it, I think he has to become more efficient.
23:36 Like, that's the main thing.
23:38 You know, if he was averaging, you know, five or six more points a game and
23:41 instead of shooting 47% from the field, he was shooting 53% from the field,
23:45 like, I'd be making his MVP case, right?
23:47 Because, like, that's what other, you know, that's what other contenders are doing.
23:51 Like, SGA is more efficient than him.
23:53 You know, Jokic is more efficient than him.
23:55 Luka, I'm not sure if he actually is more efficient, but I know he's putting up
23:58 crazier numbers just across the board.
24:00 So, at the end of the day, like, it is a little bit of a stats race.
24:04 I know a lot of people are like, you know, we have, you know, 62 or 63 games.
24:08 Like, we should, you know, he should be one of the top candidates for that anyways.
24:12 I don't think that's what an MVP is.
24:13 Like, an MVP to me is Joel Embiid making the Sixers a top two team in the East
24:17 when he's healthy and a bottom six team in the East when he's unhealthy.
24:21 Like, that's an MVP.
24:22 It's not when you sit out, there's a lot of talent on this team that they're still
24:26 super effective.
24:27 Like, just by definition, it's no knock on tatum.
24:30 It's just, you know, to be the most valuable player, it means that when
24:33 you're not there, there's a huge impact.
24:34 And this year, they've been good without him as well.
24:36 And so, that's great.
24:37 Like, you should be happy about that.
24:38 There's less pressure on him to be the only guy.
24:40 But yeah, I don't think that he had an MVP type season by that metric.
24:47 - Yeah, Dr. Spoon, same question.
24:50 - I think that's really the nail on the head.
24:52 If you think back to, like, Marcus Smart earlier in his career, he, I mean,
24:57 he always kept the heat check Marcus Smart in him, but it appeared a lot less later
25:02 in his career because he got a lot better about picking his offensive attacks and
25:07 eliminating his inefficient and bad habits.
25:11 If we could see less Kobe shots when the game is not on the line from JT,
25:16 I think he would be a lot closer to being a serious contender in that MVP race.
25:21 - Yeah, every so often, I mean, Boston has only had its starting or its top six
25:27 together, like, 30 times maybe this season.
25:30 And so, you'll often see long stretches where Tatum, it's like Tatum,
25:33 Holladay, Horford, Hauser, Pritchard or something, like,
25:37 you see Tatum running with less talent and same with Brown.
25:42 If you squint, you could see how the MVP thing could work, like,
25:45 if Tatum did indeed need that high of a usage rate.
25:48 I do think he could put a season together where he's maybe not as efficient but could
25:52 be as impressive.
25:54 But, like, if you root for the Boston Celtics, you don't want that.
25:56 Like, spoiler alert, the person who should win Executive of the Year is Brad Stevens
26:01 and, you know, you can debate your mom on that one.
26:04 Like, there's no way around it.
26:06 The Celtics team is a juggernaut, thanks to the front office.
26:11 And so, like, it's great that Jokic is going to win a third straight MVP and that
26:16 is deserved and super-duper-duper impressive.
26:18 But having...how many starter quality guys play for the Boston Celtics right now?
26:23 Eight, nine, ten?
26:25 So, I'd take that.
26:27 No offense to Jason Tatum.
26:28 He's got plenty of hardware in his closet.
26:31 Okay.
26:32 So, Tatum's not going to win MVP, but, Noah, he could make the All-NBA First team,
26:40 which he did last year.
26:42 But this year, it is positionless.
26:45 And I think...I guess I'll lay the landscape.
26:49 I think Giannis is a lock.
26:52 I think Jokic is a lock.
26:53 I think Luka is a lock.
26:55 I think I think SGA is a lock.
26:57 And I think then that last spot, it's very sexy right now to pick Jalen Brunson
27:03 over Jason Tatum.
27:03 - I was just going to say, yeah.
27:04 - Okay.
27:05 Well, then, Justin, you're going to make the case for Brunson.
27:08 Noah, make the case for Tatum.
27:09 - You're the guest.
27:12 You go first.
27:14 - Yeah, I think this is where I think the wins do matter more.
27:18 We're no longer talking about MVP.
27:21 This is a 6-2 win team.
27:23 He's been the best player on the team.
27:24 And actually, I was telling...I was sitting next to Bobby Kravitzky a couple
27:28 days ago on the ninth floor, and we were talking about this exact thing,
27:33 about who gets the fifth spot.
27:34 And I think I had said something like, "I could see the case for Brunson.
27:37 He's really been carrying that team and all that."
27:39 We pulled up the stats, and Brunson doesn't actually have better stats
27:42 than Tatum, which kind of surprised me.
27:43 I thought from an efficiency standpoint, he did.
27:45 He actually didn't.
27:46 And then I was like, "Okay, if they have similar stats and Tatum's on a team that
27:50 has been this dominant, you got to give it to him."
27:53 So not the most compelling argument, but I think when I actually just put them
27:56 head-to-head, it was less...
27:57 I thought that Brunson had had a better season statistically than he actually had.
28:01 I think he's had a very, like, hype season because he's playing in Madison Square
28:04 Garden and for a franchise that, like, you know, and he's so beloved,
28:08 and he's just, like, a cool guy.
28:09 And so I think, like, the air around his season has been amazing.
28:13 But if you just really break it down, like, Tatum has a stronger case, I think.
28:17 - All right.
28:18 Justin, sorry.
28:18 Brunson, go.
28:19 - Before I make the Brunson case, I do think there is a little bit of
28:23 recency bias built in because you're right about his season, except for recently.
28:28 The last month or so, he's really gotten better.
28:31 And you could say that in that month, and this is a full-season award,
28:34 so that's really not helping my argument, there is a case for him to be better.
28:40 And then me in case mode, if you...
28:44 This is a philosophy thing, like, what do you value for first team?
28:49 Is it...should it be really just a breakdown of the MVP vote, or should it be,
28:54 like, more contextual-based?
28:57 Being the completely unbiased analyst that I am, you know, not in case mode,
29:04 I would probably go with Tatum personally.
29:07 But if I am trying to make the case for Brunson, then I'm going to be pushing the
29:10 narrative that, well, if the top five people in the MVP race are not on the
29:14 first team, then what are we doing?
29:17 - Yeah.
29:18 That was something that Bontemp said.
29:19 He was like, "I think the league is fine with how vague it is because then we get
29:23 paid to talk about it."
29:26 I would just say that, like, for goodness sake, I hope that the voters think about
29:30 defense when they think about these things.
29:32 That's literally half of the game of basketball.
29:35 And there is no good faith argument that Brunson is a better player than Jason
29:41 Tatum if you think about defense in your equation.
29:45 Brunson's a very, very good offensive player, but he's not a good defensive
29:50 player.
29:51 And Jason Tatum is a very good offensive player, and he's a very good
29:53 defensive player.
29:54 Like, there's just no case to be made otherwise.
29:56 So there's a lot of, like, politics and shenanigans that goes into all
30:01 NBA voting.
30:01 It is not like 100 monks, you know, up in the mountains doing this out of the
30:06 goodness of their hearts.
30:07 There's a lot of strings being pulled behind the scenes.
30:11 So Brunson will get a lot of first place, first team votes, but he shouldn't.
30:15 He just shouldn't.
30:16 That's ridiculous.
30:17 Anyways, and the point around that, I think, I've heard a lot of people say
30:21 that, "Oh, well, Brunson, you know, the Knicks are better, and they didn't have
30:24 what's-his-face Randall, blah, blah, blah."
30:27 Yeah, but SGA just took the thunder from the 10th seed to the second seed.
30:30 Like, if we're rewarding that, like, it's been done 10 times better than the
30:36 Western Conference.
30:37 So I don't see rewarding that multiple times on the first team.
30:41 Okay, so let's give Jason Tatum first team.
30:43 Congrats, Jason.
30:45 Noah, let me ask this.
30:49 Does Jalen Brown make an all-NBA team in which one?
30:53 - Yeah, he definitely does.
30:54 I have to have the whole list in front of me and see where the cutoff is, but he's
30:59 had an all-NBA season.
31:00 I think he's had...
31:02 His season has not been too far behind Tatum's, honestly, as far as his impact
31:05 on his team.
31:06 And to piggyback off your point about defense, that's the big positive surprise
31:10 I think this year.
31:11 Like, not only has he been one of the leading scorers on the team and often many
31:15 nights the leading scorer, but he's been tasked with guarding the opposing team's
31:18 best player almost every single night and has done a really good job most
31:22 of those times.
31:23 And so to me, to be such a good two-way player on the best team on the league by
31:27 so much, he certainly had an all-NBA-type season.
31:31 I did not think that he was going to, honestly.
31:33 I thought last year there was a lot of people that, you know, kind of...
31:37 Good things fell his way when he landed on 13th, and I was like, "I don't think
31:39 he'll replicate that."
31:40 And he's had a better season than he did last year.
31:42 And so he's been really fun to watch.
31:45 I, you know, personally have thought that he's had a super impressive year in all
31:49 facets.
31:50 And yeah, I think unless I'm overlooking someone right now and if I put them head
31:56 to head, I'm wrong, it's possible.
31:57 But I think he's second or third, depending on how things shake out.
32:02 - Yeah, for me, that's exactly what the divider is.
32:04 It's not, "Is he all-NBA?"
32:05 It's, "Which team is he?
32:06 Is he second or third?"
32:07 Because I feel like he's right in the border region between second and third.
32:12 - Yeah, the second or thirds have it.
32:16 I mean, he definitely is going to make an all-NBA team.
32:18 I mean, to your point, he made one last year and he's been better this year.
32:21 And the Celtics are going to end the season having won 63 or 64 games.
32:25 That's not like, "Oh, let's throw them a bone and reward them."
32:27 That is like sincere, rarefied air.
32:30 And as much as there's a political bend to the voting, like,
32:34 that has to be acknowledged.
32:36 Which is to say, like, for example, I think Anthony Davis and LeBron James are
32:41 both going to make all-NBA teams and probably deservedly, but also the Lakers
32:46 are hot garbage.
32:48 So, like, I don't know.
32:50 Anyways, we can move a little quicker with these.
32:53 So, let me consolidate the question.
32:54 Noah, does any other Celtic make an all-NBA team?
32:57 - No, I don't think so.
32:59 KP would be the other one, but he's missed too many games.
33:02 And I don't think he's actually...
33:04 He actually has missed...
33:05 Is there a threshold still for all-NBA?
33:07 I can't remember.
33:07 - Yeah, 65.
33:08 - I believe there is, yeah.
33:09 - And I think he's below that.
33:10 But regardless, yeah, he hasn't played extended enough minutes.
33:15 He'd be the only one in consideration.
33:16 Derek White had a great start to the season, but statistically,
33:19 he's dropped off a little bit.
33:20 And, you know, even if you weren't an all-star, it's hard to be an all-NBA, right?
33:24 It's very rare, I feel like, that shakes out that way.
33:27 There will be some people.
33:27 I think, like, Sabonis is probably one, but yeah, no, nobody else.
33:34 - Dr. Quinn?
33:36 - I think that if KP played enough games, he would be in the conversation.
33:42 But even then, I think that he's still kind of...
33:44 Like, his level of play is close to 13, but I'm not entirely sure he would make it.
33:50 - Yeah, I mean, what we're asking is, are they one of the most 15 impressive and
33:54 impactful NBA players this season?
33:56 It's just like, there's no way that that's the case.
34:00 Like, maybe you could get Nebulas and say, "Derek White, his intangibles made him a
34:06 top 15 most impactful player," but that's a really hard sell.
34:10 So they're phenomenal.
34:13 And, Noah, to your point, everyone took a step back so that they could, like,
34:17 share the wealth and quite literally share the rock.
34:19 So maybe they could have sprinted for it, but no, it's a good thing, probably.
34:25 Maybe they're not going to win these awards.
34:27 Okay.
34:29 Yeah, I probably wish I also had a list of players in front of me because this one's
34:32 going to be tough.
34:33 So, Noah, I'll make you do it instead.
34:36 What Celtics make first team all defense and why?
34:40 - Oh, this is so hard.
34:42 I honestly don't even know if I can weigh in on all defense because even within the
34:45 Celtics, I don't know that I know who the most impactful defender has been.
34:49 And I've been having...
34:50 - And it's positionless now, so...
34:51 - Right.
34:52 But I'm saying, like, if, say, we were going to have one Celtic player in first
34:55 team, like, I don't even know which one would make the most sense because,
34:57 on one hand, Drew Holliday has been, like, the mastermind of the defense, right?
35:01 And he's been schematically, I think, most important.
35:04 Derek White has had, like, blocks, steals, those kind of crazy plays,
35:08 transition defense that rivals and then really nobody in this league.
35:11 But then Jalen Brown has been the one-on-one stopper.
35:14 And he has other weaknesses to his defensive game, but I think just that
35:18 alone, it's hard to pick someone over him.
35:19 So I'm glad I'm not a voter because I don't know, honestly,
35:23 which one it would be.
35:24 I think you need at least one guy first team and one guy second team.
35:28 It's one of the best defenses in the league, and those three all have
35:30 really strong cases.
35:32 But yeah, I don't know.
35:33 I don't have a strong opinion on who that is.
35:35 - Justin, what about you?
35:37 - I think the stock exchange is pretty much guaranteed to make at least one team.
35:45 I don't know which for the same reasons.
35:48 And I think there's a chance that Jalen makes an all-defensive team,
35:53 but I think his case is probably the hardest.
35:55 And if you squint very hard, I think you can also make one for Porzingis,
36:00 but I don't really think that he's going to make one.
36:05 - Yeah, I think Jalen...
36:08 I have a low opinion of the voting pool.
36:11 I don't think that it's 100 voters.
36:14 I don't think they all watch much basketball, like I'm just being honest.
36:17 - I think a lot of people just watch their team and then they base their opinions
36:20 on four or five games that they do see the other players, which is not great,
36:25 but I think that's just what it is.
36:27 - Well, so to that end, Noah's right.
36:29 I think Drew Holliday is the correct answer, as in it doesn't show up in the,
36:34 you know, plain box score, but he's the quarterback of the defense
36:37 in an impressive way.
36:40 But if you're a voter, like you live in Portland and you watch,
36:42 like, five Celtics games a year, you might not notice that.
36:46 To that end, Derek White, it's, like, a little en vogue to gawk at his defense,
36:51 and you get to see the highlights because he makes so many, like,
36:55 freaking ridiculous plays such that you don't have to be super informed
37:00 to pick Drew Holliday, but if you're really...
37:02 Like, it's a lock, I think.
37:04 And then Derek White, it's sexy.
37:06 I don't think the world knows what Jalen Brown has done on defense here.
37:12 And hypothetically, maybe I told his group, "Hey, like,
37:16 let me help you tell the story," and they didn't take the bait,
37:19 so maybe that's on them.
37:21 Yeah, I don't think it's a well-recognized thing that Jalen Brown chooses to guard
37:27 the best player on the other team.
37:29 We know that because he tells us that, but I don't think the whole
37:31 world knows that.
37:32 So I think...
37:33 - JJ Redick knows.
37:34 He's been talking a lot about it on Old Man of the Tree.
37:36 So JJ Redick on Old Man of the Tree, he's been talking a lot about Jalen Brown's
37:41 defense.
37:41 So there's a handful of people that I think are in deep enough to know,
37:44 but yeah, I totally agree with you, Cam.
37:46 - Yeah, I mean, but JJ Redick also was like, "How come no one watches my podcast
37:51 when I talk about X's nose?"
37:52 So he's still figuring out, like, what it means to have a bully pulpit
37:57 in the NBA, I think.
37:58 So I don't know.
37:59 I think it's Drew and Derek and the fact that there's so many really impressive
38:05 big men and it's positionless is also going to hurt Boston's case too.
38:08 - Yeah.
38:09 Okay, a few more cookies and then, Noah, off to the game you go.
38:16 Make the case for a Celtic winning sixth man of the year.
38:18 - I mean, I guess it would be Al.
38:23 Take stats away, he actually has a really strong case.
38:26 Like, he comes in and elevates the team's play most times.
38:29 I think defensively, just schematically, offensively, the way he moves the ball,
38:34 the way he's been reliably hitting the three, like, you know,
38:37 he has been as effective as a sixth man can be.
38:40 Unfortunately, though, I think this award is just, like,
38:43 who scores a lot of points off the bench and that's what this award
38:45 has always been.
38:46 And I can say I did not think Malcolm Brogdon was a sixth man of the year last
38:51 year season-wise, like, as far as just the impact that he actually had on both ends
38:54 of the floor and on the flow of the offense and everything.
38:58 You know, no hate, just like I didn't think that was a sixth man of the year
39:01 season, but because he scored a bunch of points, like,
39:03 he was the runaway for that.
39:05 So this award to me just is a little bit misconstrued the way that it actually,
39:08 like, I think it should be a guy that checks in and, like,
39:11 actually has a great impact.
39:12 Like, Peyton Pritchard has sixth man of the year, like, type impact when he
39:15 checks in.
39:16 - Yeah.
39:16 - He's not the sixth man, so he's not eligible.
39:18 But in theory, that's the kind of play you want, but I've already seen,
39:21 like, the odds and it's just, like, the leading scorers off the bench.
39:24 So I don't think Al really has much of a case.
39:28 - Yeah, it's basically the story of Al's career.
39:30 If you follow him closely and you know what he does and you see the impact
39:34 on his game, it is millions, and no offense to Brogdon,
39:38 millions of miles more impactful than what Brogdon did for the Celtics.
39:43 But, yeah.
39:44 - I mean, I think it's also worth noting that Al Horford has been fighting this big
39:49 toe injury.
39:49 I mean, how many games has he missed from this dang big toe?
39:53 It's really impressive.
39:53 - I have sprained the toe before and that crap hurts, but it has been a long time.
39:58 - But it is funny.
39:59 I want to ask someone about it because it's so obviously not a real thing,
40:03 but why the left toe sprain?
40:05 I almost feel like it's, like, a joke that they have to themselves.
40:07 - Yeah, I think that...I would be surprised if the Celtics get pinged
40:15 for flagrantly violating the injury report every back-to-back,
40:21 but they must have friends in Secaucus or...
40:23 - They're Miami heating it, yeah.
40:25 - So get better soon, Al, that big toe.
40:28 We need you, buddy.
40:30 Yeah, Noah.
40:31 Actually, can I put you on the spot as a vegan?
40:32 - Please.
40:33 - So...
40:34 - Always.
40:35 - I was loud wrong always.
40:37 I was loud wrong about Peyton Pritchard.
40:39 I said, "I don't get it.
40:41 They should trade him."
40:42 Justin was loud wrong about Luke Cornett.
40:44 And last week or the week before, we were saying, like, "I guess we got
40:49 to eat crow."
40:50 And I don't know how we got on, like, what do vegans say about when you got
40:54 to eat crow, but what would be, like, the vegan equivalent of...
40:57 So anyone who, you know, doesn't speak English as a first language or something,
41:00 when you say, "I made a mistake and I have to, like, acknowledge that I'm wrong,"
41:06 you say, "I have to eat crow like a bird."
41:09 But vegans don't eat birds.
41:10 So Noah, what would you say?
41:12 - I might be the wrong person to ask.
41:15 I'm notoriously bad at...
41:15 - You said, "I can ask."
41:16 You're a vegan.
41:17 - You can ask, yeah, but...
41:18 - I'm vegetarian, thank you very much.
41:21 - Yeah, well, I'm going to put my "I wasn't born here" hat on.
41:25 And so I'm not the person to ask about expressions.
41:28 Yes, I have lived here since I was seven, but I still think there's an element of a
41:33 lack of knowledge that I have.
41:34 I actually would...
41:34 I would just say, like, I was wrong, I guess.
41:37 I would never say I would eat crow because...
41:39 - It's very New England thing to say.
41:41 - Yeah.
41:41 - I've never heard anybody say that in, like, 10 years, ever.
41:44 - Nobody says that out of New England.
41:46 I mean, when I lived in Florida and definitely not here in Mexico,
41:48 nobody talks about eating crows.
41:49 - Wait, are you kidding?
41:50 I'm looking this up now.
41:51 - Oh.
41:51 - Okay, well, while I get to the bottom of this, Noah, make the case for Joe,
41:57 Coach of the Year, or not, I guess.
41:59 - Oh, no, I'll make that case, actually.
42:00 So the most impressive thing to me that Joe has done is that he's gotten,
42:04 any given night, it does not matter who's available, that Celtics have been usually
42:08 the better team on the court.
42:09 Like, we have seen during this last stretch, there have been plenty of games
42:12 where it's been a Luke Cornett, Sam Houser, Peyton Pritchard-led effort,
42:15 and that team has been phenomenal.
42:18 And so to me, that is an element of coaching that is a little bit underrated.
42:22 It's like, not just can your stars carry you, because oftentimes,
42:24 that has nothing to do with the coach, whether Luka can go one-on-one and hit
42:28 the game winner and Tatum didn't.
42:29 Like, that ends up not being a lot of times a coach thing, where now Joe's
42:32 playing for a bad end of gameplay, but really, most of the league hands fall
42:37 to their superstar and hopes that it works out.
42:40 And so to me, like, the way that he's been able to lead this team to be effective,
42:44 guys 1 through 15, has been really remarkable and a little bit understated,
42:47 because it's not like every single night they have this starting lineup come out
42:50 that is just, like, so over-talented that it makes sense that they win.
42:55 A lot of the wins have been with just two of those guys,
42:58 with three of those guys, or all bench lineups, like we saw in Charlotte, right?
43:03 Like, those were Geely guys, and that team was ready to play.
43:06 And so that, I think, is his strongest case, plus it just 62 wins a season, 63.
43:12 Is it going to be 64 if they win today?
43:13 Is that the record now?
43:15 - I think so, yeah.
43:15 - Yeah.
43:16 I mean, that's pretty...
43:16 That's just so far ahead of everybody else that the goal of coaching is to win
43:21 basketball games, right?
43:22 Like, he did that more than anybody else this year.
43:24 So I think he has a really strong case.
43:26 You know, I wouldn't be shocked if...
43:28 If Thunder Coach won, I think there's a couple other worthy candidates,
43:30 but he's certainly up there.
43:32 - Dr. Quinn, then who's going to win it?
43:36 - I think it's the Dagnolt Award, as others have pointed out, fairly often.
43:44 And it's deserved.
43:45 I mean, nobody really thought that that team was going to be even close
43:50 to a contender this year.
43:51 Like, maybe a good playoff team, right?
43:54 But I mean, now they are one of the top teams in the West, and the West is,
43:58 like, Mad Max Thunder Road.
44:00 So it's just like...
44:02 As much as I definitely believe all the things that Noah just said,
44:06 and I think it's a very good case, I just think that Mark's case is better.
44:09 - Yeah, the pride of Lemonster, Massachusetts.
44:12 - Okay, I learned a lot about eating crow, and it's kind of gross.
44:17 But also, people like Rupert Kipling and Harry Truman liked using it,
44:22 and I hate those guys.
44:22 So I'll come up with something else.
44:24 Also, the origins of humble pie are really gross.
44:27 So let's just try to be right about our takes so we don't have to worry
44:30 about humble pie.
44:31 - I'm guessing it involves something like haggis or something gross.
44:35 Anyway, let's not talk about it anymore.
44:37 - Anyway, I also think Dagnolt is going to win Coach of the Year.
44:42 And again, I hate to sound like I have a tinfoil hat on here,
44:45 but a lot of it is, like, at the end of the season,
44:47 people are going to want to reward the Thunder, and that's a logical place.
44:51 And I've said this before, I think Joe doesn't win Coach of the Year
44:54 because Brad Stephens wins Executive of the Year, and they're like, "Good,
44:57 this helped it get recognized.
44:58 Now we can recognize the Thunder."
45:00 It's not like these 100 voters sit in a smoke-filled room and decide this stuff,
45:06 but I think water finds its level.
45:07 - There's a psychology to it.
45:09 - Yeah.
45:09 - Also, Coach of the Year is probably the most meaningless award because
45:12 they get fired the year after, like, half the time.
45:14 So it almost feels like a little curse.
45:16 Like, Svolstra's number one Coach of the Year, and he's doing great,
45:19 and a lot of guys that have won lose their job the following year.
45:21 So I think it's one of those that maybe matters a little bit less than we think
45:24 at this point.
45:25 - Yeah, I can just imagine the press conference with Joe after he wins the
45:31 award, just kind of, like, mumbling how it's an award for everyone and then
45:35 moving on.
45:36 - Yeah.
45:36 - So, and whereas Dagnolt, I think, would be a little more gracious,
45:39 but that's not the reason you give someone an award or not.
45:42 - You think the firing part is because they overachieve one year and then the next
45:45 year they just achieve, achieve, and everyone's like, "Oh,
45:48 they're terrible now.
45:49 New coach."
45:50 - Maybe.
45:51 And part of it is just, like, the cyclical nature of the NBA where you need a
45:55 scapegoat when, you know, a team falls short one year.
45:57 - Yeah.
45:58 - But didn't Budenholzer win it?
46:00 - Yeah.
46:00 - Didn't he get fired the year he won it?
46:02 - Who?
46:03 - Budenholzer.
46:04 Or someone recently did, right?
46:06 - Carl did a long time ago.
46:08 Budenholzer did.
46:10 Detroit coach Casey did.
46:12 - Monty Williams soon after.
46:14 - Oh, that's what I'm thinking of.
46:14 It was Monty, like, last year or the year before.
46:17 - Yeah.
46:18 - Yeah, okay.
46:18 Hopefully, Joe doesn't win it.
46:20 I'd like a little continuity on this team after, you know, 2018 through 2020.
46:24 - You said we'll be paying four coaches.
46:26 - Yeah.
46:28 Speaking of executive of the year, good job, Celtics front office.
46:32 Yeah, if you look under the hood for some of these other NBA teams,
46:35 not only are they paying, like, five coaches at once,
46:37 they're also paying, like, 30 players' worth of bought-out salary.
46:40 So good job, Celtics.
46:43 Okay, I don't care about Clutch or Most Improved.
46:46 Does anyone?
46:48 - No.
46:49 - Okay, then, Noah, I'll ask you one last question just because I'm strictly curious.
46:56 Celtics or not, what is, like, a storyline or a player or a team you're just,
47:00 as a basketball fan, excited to watch in the playoffs?
47:03 - Well, I'm definitely the most excited to see what happens with the Celtics.
47:06 But I will say there's a lot of fun teams to watch this year.
47:10 I'm, like, a part-time Knicks fan, I'll have to admit.
47:12 I think they're just such a fun team to watch.
47:14 I love Jalen Brunson.
47:15 I love Josh Hart.
47:15 I love the Villanova storyline.
47:17 I think it's super cool.
47:18 So curious to see how that team will hold up.
47:20 Plus, just, like, MSG is such a cool environment to play in that I would love a
47:23 Celtics-Knicks series.
47:24 I think that'd be a lot of fun.
47:26 That's one team that I'm excited about.
47:27 And then I think there's just a lot of, like, questions around the West right now.
47:30 It's so electric where you have, like, this, so many stars and so much talent.
47:34 And, like, the 9th, 10th game, like, you have LeBron and Steph Curry,
47:36 you know, arguably the two greatest players of our generation.
47:39 They're duking it out for a, you know, you have to win two games to make
47:42 the playoffs.
47:43 Like, that's going to be so fun to watch.
47:44 I'm really looking forward to that this week.
47:45 And then you have a lot of, like, the up-and-coming teams, like,
47:47 the Thunder on the other side of that bracket.
47:49 And I think a lot of people feel like they're pretenders or they're not really
47:52 ready for a real run yet.
47:53 So curious to see how that'll play out.
47:56 So just a lot of overall enthusiasm for me across the board.
47:58 But I think what's happening, the play-in this week will be really cool
48:02 in the West.
48:02 In the East, a little bit of a sleepier one with Chicago and Atlanta kind
48:07 of entering that one.
48:09 I think the East is the case against the play-in a little.
48:11 West is the case for it.
48:12 - What about you, Justin?
48:14 That's well said, Noah.
48:15 - I actually perked up when you talked about the Bulls because that is the thing
48:20 that I am actually very interested in because I cover the Bulls on BullsWire
48:25 occasionally.
48:26 And everything that we just said about the Celtics in terms of being a good front
48:31 office, good coaching, like, well, the coaching is okay with the Bulls.
48:34 But the front office is very, very not great with the Bulls.
48:38 And I am curious to see, like, somehow, like, the basketball guys keep giving
48:44 them lifelines even though they do not deserve any of them.
48:47 And they have kind of just stumbled into the play-in when they really should be
48:51 completely blowing that team up and rebuilding.
48:54 But that's a whole different podcast.
48:56 I'm curious to see whether they could actually get into the playoffs and
49:00 the UConn home run.
49:01 Me also wants to see a little more Adamo Sanogo, who just put up 22-20 for them as
49:06 a two-way player, which is very exciting for me as a Huskies fan.
49:09 - All right.
49:11 - Congratulations, Husky fan.
49:13 - Thank you.
49:14 - Yeah, I think the Knicks things, the NBA is just a better place when the
49:17 Knicks are a good team.
49:19 It's just fun.
49:21 Can I try one take on for size and then we'll wrap?
49:24 - Sure.
49:25 - I kind of want to see the Heat win a round or two, obviously not at the expense
49:31 of the Celtics.
49:32 I cover the Celtics.
49:33 It's good for me when the Celtics win.
49:36 But I feel like, counterintuitively, it would, like, validate some of Boston's
49:40 struggles in previous years if Miami, like, once again proves it is a juggernaut of,
49:46 like, some description.
49:47 Like, if Miami goes out like a paper tiger here, then it's like, "Ooh."
49:51 I don't know.
49:52 Like, somehow revisionist history makes last year's loss a little less...
49:55 - But they're different teams.
49:56 I know what you're saying, but they're different teams.
49:59 - Yeah, but, like, that's not...
50:01 If they have Jimmy and they have Pat Ryan, I mean, like, the top-level analysis is
50:04 not...
50:05 Obviously, I don't think that that's how that works, but I think, like,
50:08 in the zeitgeist, it does.
50:09 - It does.
50:10 - I'll try that take.
50:11 Let me refine that take and try it on later.
50:13 I hope the Celtics get Trae Young and the Hawks in the first round and the Hawks get
50:18 one plucky win and it's light work for Boston.
50:20 - I'm a hard no on Atlanta.
50:22 I just spent a week there.
50:23 I want to go somewhere different.
50:24 - Are you going to go to any and all road games?
50:28 - Most likely, yes.
50:28 We'll see how things shake up.
50:30 Most likely.
50:31 - I'll be here.
50:33 Maybe New York, doubt it, but we'll see.
50:36 Okay.
50:37 Well, Noah, you're off to say goodbye to Mike Gorman.
50:41 And this upcoming week, we've got the play-in tournament.
50:44 So good luck to Noah and Mike Gorman.
50:47 Good luck to the Maine Celtics.
50:48 And good luck to all of our listeners who are going to use PrizePix, the exclusive fantasy
50:54 basketball partner of the CLNS Media Network.
50:56 And by the way, if you enjoyed this pod, check out the How 'Bout Them Celtics podcast, First
51:00 to the Floor, and the many other New England sports podcasts available on the CLNS Media
51:04 Network.
51:06 Noah writes for Celtics blog and is an illustrious Celt of the round table.
51:10 Be on the lookout for that Tuesday night.
51:11 Otherwise, like and subscribe to this podcast.
51:14 And we will catch you soon.
51:15 Arrivederci.
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51:26 (upbeat music)
51:29 (upbeat music)
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