- 2 years ago
The Boston Celtics have been playing like a ball club full of All-NBA players, even if they will likely only have two -- and it has not shown more this season than in their 140-88 demolition of the Golden State Warriors at TD Garden on Sunday afternoon.
Exorcising the demons lingering from their 2022 NBA Finals loss to the Warriors in a big way, now the question in front of Boston as they dive into the stretch run is how long their league-leading win streak will end with the easiest remaining schedule in the NBA.
And while we're talking about All-NBA, where are those presumed Celtics All-NBA players likely to fall among their elite peers in the league, and who else might join Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown on which All-NBA teams?
The hosts of the CLNS Media "Celtics Lab" podcast sat down to tease out who they think will make which teams, and where Boston's players stand among them on their most recent episode. We also get caught up on the news and look back and the Celtics' week of excellent play.
The Celtics Lab podcast is brought to you by Prize Picks.
If you enjoy this pod, check out the "How Bout Them Celtics," "First to the Floor," and the many other New England sports podcasts available on the CLNS Media network.
Listen to the "Celtics Lab" podcast on:
Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3zBKQY6
Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3GfUPFi
YouTube: https://bit.ly/3F9DvjQ
Exorcising the demons lingering from their 2022 NBA Finals loss to the Warriors in a big way, now the question in front of Boston as they dive into the stretch run is how long their league-leading win streak will end with the easiest remaining schedule in the NBA.
And while we're talking about All-NBA, where are those presumed Celtics All-NBA players likely to fall among their elite peers in the league, and who else might join Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown on which All-NBA teams?
The hosts of the CLNS Media "Celtics Lab" podcast sat down to tease out who they think will make which teams, and where Boston's players stand among them on their most recent episode. We also get caught up on the news and look back and the Celtics' week of excellent play.
The Celtics Lab podcast is brought to you by Prize Picks.
If you enjoy this pod, check out the "How Bout Them Celtics," "First to the Floor," and the many other New England sports podcasts available on the CLNS Media network.
Listen to the "Celtics Lab" podcast on:
Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3zBKQY6
Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3GfUPFi
YouTube: https://bit.ly/3F9DvjQ
Category
🥇
SportsTranscript
00:00 [theme music]
00:09 Welcome to another episode of the Celtics Lab podcast.
00:13 I am your host today, Alex Goldberg, otherwise known as Designer Smurf, on Twitter.
00:18 I'm popping in while Cam continues to work his way through the press gaggle waiting for Joe Mazzuola and Jalen Brown, among others.
00:25 This episode of the Celtics Lab podcast is brought to you by PrizePix, the exclusive fantasy basketball partner of the CLNS Media Network.
00:32 If you enjoy this pod, check out our friends at How 'Bout Them Celtics and First to the Floor, as well as many other New England sports podcasts available on the CLNS Media Network.
00:42 And I'm here, as always, with my compatriot, Dr. Justin Quinn, to break down the latest news for the Seas and to start to get into the All-NBA conversation,
00:52 because we saw some All-NBA-level performances tonight, didn't we, Dr. Quinn?
00:57 We did. It's really hard to overestimate just how brutal of a beatdown this was.
01:06 As I was saying to you off-air more than once, because we were so excited to start talking about this beatdown,
01:12 that we didn't even realize we didn't hit the record button the first time we started the pod,
01:16 that this was basically the Celtics looking at the Golden State Warriors not just as an enemy that they need to put out of the commission so they don't have to deal with them anymore.
01:27 They treated them like a zombie from The Walking Dead that they just wanted to permanently remove any possibility of anything ever ending up in their heads again.
01:35 It's really hard to overemphasize just how historic of a beatdown this was.
01:41 They set the record for the most points ever scored in a halftime deficit or for a lead for them,
01:48 and then the third biggest record for a margin of victory in Celtics history over the course of nearly eight decades of some pretty substantial victories.
01:56 This is the Celtics' third 50-point win this season, and this game, for listeners who did not know what we were talking about,
02:05 we're coming off a fresh beatdown over the Golden State Warriors, 140-88 our final score,
02:12 with Jason Tatum getting 27-3-5, Jalen Brown leading the pack with 29-3-3.
02:19 This game was a laugher, and it came off the heels of a previous 10-game winning streak for Boston to put that margin up to 11.
02:26 Listen, folks, they're the hottest team in the league.
02:29 The Boston Celtics are running away with the Eastern Conference.
02:33 They are taking playoff teams like the Warriors and putting the absolute vice grip on them.
02:38 Steph Curry had one of his worst games as a pro with four points, 2-13, shooting one rebound, three assists,
02:45 and he did not play the second half because, well, Dr. Quinn, this game was over by the second half.
02:52 What did you see out there from the Warriors that made this game such a laugher?
02:57 I mean, the two -- so to contextualize things, this is not the Warriors team of the '22 finals, but they're not a bad team either.
03:05 They're a middle-of-the-pack Western Conference team, which is a pretty good team, right?
03:08 It's not a bad team, but it's not the same team that really flexed on Boston
03:13 and took a 3-2 series lead for the Celtics and turned it into a win, as we would love to forget.
03:21 And this is going to help them forget because whether it's by the status --
03:26 I mean, we saw Clay leave the game early, possibly because of the beatdown,
03:29 but also he seemed to be dealing with a hamstring issue, as it was reported.
03:33 Curry almost missed the game to begin with with some kneebursitis, and he was airballing a lot of shots,
03:38 so it seems fairly likely that there was some health issues going on.
03:42 But there wasn't even a sniff of the Celtics having psychological concerns, fear of this team.
03:51 The typical junking it up of the defense that we see from the Warriors did not happen.
03:57 It may be a bit personnel-related, as I just said, but overall, when you see a win like this,
04:05 it's very clear that the Celtics weren't just trying to send a message to us or to the Warriors,
04:09 but also to themselves, and I think they did.
04:12 Fascinating development in this game that stood out to me.
04:15 Draymond Green spoke about this a little bit afterwards,
04:18 that apparently the Warriors, about 15 minutes before game time,
04:21 decided to employ a unique strategy with regard to their defensive coverage
04:26 in basically leaving Jalen Brown wide open.
04:30 If there's one thing that I think we've figured out as Celtics observers over the past few years, dear listener,
04:36 it's that the worst possible thing you can do is leave Jalen Brown open early,
04:42 because that allows him to get into rhythm uninterrupted and really get into the highest possible levels of his offensive play.
04:49 And he's been playing outstanding basketball lately.
04:53 Typically, if teams are trying to make Jalen Brown's life difficult,
04:58 you'll see the Miami Heat, for example, employ a strategy of aggressive trapping,
05:03 playing really high up on the ball and preventing him from getting any airspace or breathing room,
05:08 and then attacking his handle.
05:10 The Warriors decided to do the opposite of that and paid quite dearly for it.
05:15 So, as I mentioned before, the Warriors are the latest victim for Boston,
05:20 who is now riding high on an 11-game win streak,
05:23 despite the absence of Kristaps Porzingis in this one,
05:26 out with a thigh contusion after getting kneed very hard by Dante Exum against the Dallas Mavericks in their last game.
05:34 JQ, is this team going to lose again? What are we looking at here?
05:39 Well, there is this team, you may have heard of them, the Denver Nuggets, they're playing them next, right?
05:45 So, if they are going to lose, that'd be my money where it happens, because, you know, they are the reigning champions.
05:51 And I don't think that the Celtics are capable of being so high on their own supply at this point in time
05:58 that they are in danger of looking like the team we've seen in the past.
06:01 But I do feel like that there can occasionally be a little bit of hubris greasing the wheels for a trap game.
06:07 If you want to call losing to the national champions of last season a trap game.
06:12 So that would be my guess if they are going to lose a game.
06:15 They have a couple more hard games left before the, shall we say, slippery slide into the postseason begins
06:22 for what is going to be an emphasis on run for the stretch run, with the Celtics having, I think at this point,
06:27 the league's easiest strength of schedule remaining.
06:30 It's really, really easy. There's just like multiple Charlotte games, multiple Wizards games, if I remember correctly.
06:36 I think there's a Spurs game. Just about all the bad teams you can think of in the league.
06:40 Celtics are going to be playing them between now and the start of the postseason.
06:43 So if they are going to lose, it's probably going to be the next game.
06:47 Of course, we do have to offer a slight correction here in that the next game is not actually the Denver Nuggets.
06:53 Oh, crap.
06:54 That game is on Thursday. Celtics will also have to play against the Eastern Conference's second best team,
07:00 the Cleveland Cavaliers, before then.
07:02 Another interesting test and a matchup that I'm definitely going to be paying some attention to.
07:06 That one, I actually am interested to see because I think Cleveland has some areas that will make that matchup difficult for them,
07:15 just in that their backcourt is defensively challenged, shall we say.
07:21 But Donovan Mitchell has typically played extremely well against Boston in years past.
07:26 They have a lot of size in Jared Allen and Evan Mobley, who's starting to find his form after a rocky start to the season.
07:33 And in general, I think Cleveland has been kind of going under the radar as one of the league's better teams this year.
07:40 But Boston has some answers for what they have going on.
07:44 I'll be really interested to see if they play that game, and I will be very interested as well to see if Chris "Dapsport" Zingas is in for that game.
07:50 Because to me, he feels like the X-factor for that matchup specifically, being able to pull Jared Allen out of the paint,
07:57 where he's just been so good at protecting the rim this year.
08:00 But that is going to be a story for Tuesday.
08:04 Speaking of recent games, the Celtics also thumped the Dallas Mavericks by about 20 or so in a previous game, 138 to 110 the final score.
08:15 They also beat up on Philly by close to that same margin.
08:19 In that Dallas game in particular, another game that frankly didn't feel all that close midway through the third quarter.
08:26 It felt like that game was pretty much a wrap.
08:29 Kyrie Irving struggled in that game.
08:31 Of course, he is much reviled by many Boston fans, and they let him hear it with a nice chorus of boos.
08:39 I guess I'm wondering, because there were some comments after the game.
08:43 In particular, I think Jalen Brown spoke to this a little bit.
08:48 On the one hand, the fans were booing Kyrie pretty loudly, as they often and really will forever do, I'm thinking.
08:58 But at the same time, to me, it does not feel like the Kyrie Irving feud, so to speak, has the same juice that it did with the Brooklyn Nets.
09:07 It's just not quite the same thing.
09:09 He's in Dallas. He seems to be pretty happy there.
09:12 He's had a relatively normal season by Kyrie's standards.
09:16 I guess I'm just wondering, is there much of a point to dragging this feud out?
09:22 Because it seems that there's a lot of Celtics fans who are going to hate Kyrie forever.
09:26 I understand the reasons for doing so, but the feud just doesn't seem like it has the same kind of juice to me.
09:34 No, ever since the Lucky stomping, it's been pretty downhill for him.
09:40 For not entirely all basketball reasons, we don't need to re-litigate any of that stuff.
09:46 But he acknowledged that Celtics fans have a right to boo him, even if he kind of got the reasoning wrong,
09:54 suggesting that it was how he's been playing, as if him playing bad is a reason for them to boo him.
09:59 But just the fact that he is open to what really he made a much more problematic interaction with how he has responded in the past,
10:10 him taking this tack with the fans now, I think is the best way to put it to bed,
10:14 as well as his decreasing relevance to, shall we say, the elite level of play of this league.
10:21 I think fans care less when he is lesser of a player.
10:25 And I don't mean he's a bad player, I just mean he's not the same level of talent he used to be.
10:32 So I think it's kind of also eroding the juice behind that.
10:35 People are just kind of like, "Well, that was a long-ass time ago."
10:38 Which even he referenced when he was talking about it.
10:40 Yeah, and for context, Kyrie is 0-10 against the Celtics since the Lucky stomp.
10:45 It seems like they've kind of had his number, whether he's been in Brooklyn or Dallas.
10:49 And he's having a really good season, and I think the Mavs have been struggling a little bit.
10:55 But they are still very much a legit team, and he's likely going to have some playoff moments this year.
11:02 I would imagine Kyrie Irving is a lot more concerned about the state of the Western Conference than the Boston bad blood, whatever that looks like.
11:11 And frankly, with Dallas being where they're at, that seems like the correct place for his priorities.
11:17 Speaking of priorities and of high scoring, we just want to briefly shout out Caitlin Clark,
11:24 who had the best individual scoring performance in college women's basketball history earlier this week.
11:33 She was going to be the number one pick in the WNBA draft next year, which she declared.
11:41 She's going to join Olea Boston in Indiana, and that is going to be a really good basketball team next year, among other things.
11:49 All right, let's pause the podcast because the action on the hardwood is heating up,
11:53 and you can get in on the excitement with PrizePicks, America's number one fantasy sports app.
11:58 An app where you can turn your hoops knowledge into serious cash.
12:01 So whether it is tournament season or the fight for playoff seating, there's no shortage of high-stakes basketball this time of year.
12:07 And you can test your skills over on PrizePicks this season with the most exciting daily fantasy sports app around.
12:13 If you have the skills, you can turn $10 into $1,000 in just a few taps.
12:17 They offer injury insurance. They offer all sorts of games for daily fantasy sports players and basketball fans alike.
12:23 That is the number one stop.
12:25 So download the app today and use the code CLNS for a first deposit match up to $100.
12:32 Pick more, pick less, that easy. Pick PrizePicks.
12:36 Okay, back to the podcast.
12:39 Celtics coach Joe Mazzulla briefly weighed in on Kaitlin Clark's momentous achievement.
12:47 JQ, what are your thoughts on Joe's comments?
12:50 So you're being very genius when you say he briefly weighed in.
12:54 Cameron was actually asking the question.
12:57 She just set a record set by a Boston Celtics alumni in pistol Pete Maravich for the all-time scoring record.
13:04 And maybe he didn't know that.
13:06 Maybe he was just hyper-focused on Celtics basketball, as is probably the case.
13:11 But his very curt "no," if you had any thoughts on Kaitlin Clark's achievement, came off kind of the wrong way.
13:19 And I don't think it was something that he did consciously.
13:22 I want to make that very clear.
13:24 But people very often, for some reason, and it seems to be only with the WNBA,
13:29 have this weird mistake that they make where they think they're being asked about their viewing habits and what they're into,
13:36 which is not what was being asked, right?
13:39 I think that's how he took it.
13:41 And I think people probably shouldn't jump all over him if they thought that he was being misogynist or hates the WNBA.
13:48 I think what we were talking about off-air, that just he's hyper-focused on Celtics basketball right now, is probably what was going on.
13:55 But if you are asked about the WNBA in any capacity, don't tell us if you like to watch them.
14:03 Just answer the question.
14:06 And if you are a coach of a team whose player just had their record broken, even if you're not aware of it, you could just be like, "Great achievement. Good job."
14:15 Coach Maz seems to be carrying on in a long tradition of Boston sports coaches being extremely curt and very focused on, well, only the things that they are prioritizing.
14:28 So I'm not really shocked by this.
14:31 But, Joe, for what it's worth, there is plenty of media training stuff available if that's something that you are looking to do.
14:38 Anyway, we're just going to move on from that.
14:42 So another kind of minor news thing to talk about.
14:45 So the Boston Celtics are rolling in large part thanks to some significant moves that they made previous offseason,
14:52 the acquisition of Kristaps Porzingis and Drew Holiday being amongst the more notable ones.
14:58 Celtics owner Wick Gruesbeck hopped on a local Boston TV station and mentioned in that interview that the call to change the team up to its current state came from the top,
15:09 that he was the primary decision maker behind the moves that came in and that he basically said something along the lines of,
15:17 "I said to Brad and Joe, we are not returning with the same team that we had last year that flamed out in the Eastern Conference Finals against Miami."
15:28 JQ, this is not the first time I've heard this from Wick, that he was very personally involved in that.
15:35 I guess I'm wondering, is there a story here? Because I'm not sure there is, but I'm curious to hear your take on that.
15:45 I think, honestly, it's not that surprising given the fact that when was the last time you heard about any owner, never mind a Celtics owner,
15:57 going into a locker room and giving the team hell because of how they're playing in a series, right?
16:03 That was probably a very big tell about what was about to happen in the offseason.
16:08 So I'm not at all surprised by this development.
16:12 What I am surprised to hear about is that he continued to credit Brad Stevens and Mike Zarin and the rest of the front office with the decisions that were made that is manifesting to what we just saw,
16:24 basically that epic beatdown of the Warriors and everything before it, right?
16:27 That is a very good way for him to kind of situate the process and say, "Yeah, maybe I sparked it, but I had very little to do with it after that."
16:37 I think that's fair. And for what it's worth, owners say a lot of things about their basketball team and the state of their basketball teams.
16:45 They may not go into the locker room directly and say it to the players, but basketball owners for the teams by and large tend to be, well,
16:53 very wealthy, very opinionated people such as Mark Cuban and others.
16:57 So I'm not super surprised that he said that.
17:00 I'm not sure it tremendously impacted Brad Stevens and Mike Zarin's decision-making tree this offseason.
17:08 I imagine that Brad was pretty much on the same page based off of how last year's Eastern Conference finals went.
17:16 Just a couple of other pieces for the news that we want to get into.
17:20 Speaking of media engagements, our very own Justin Quinn talked to Chicago Bulls Patrick Williams.
17:27 What did we talk about with Pat, and where can we find that piece?
17:30 Well, you can find that over on BullsWire.
17:33 There's also some stuff that came up that is Celtics-relevant that I self-aggregated to CelticsWire.
17:39 You can check that out there as well.
17:40 If you want to hear his opinions on where he thinks Jason Tatum is in the MVP conversation,
17:47 spoiler alert, better than he has been in at least a straw poll, if not the current voting,
17:54 or shall we say projected voting.
17:57 The other stuff that you might be interested as a Celtics fan in is his relationship with Grant Williams,
18:03 who they are both Charlotte natives, which I was aware of.
18:06 I was not aware of the fact that he was really close with Grant growing up.
18:12 Their families both know each other very well.
18:14 And also to the extent that he has been drawing on the Celtics model,
18:20 both as an institution and as individuals, to start his own foundation to use his platform for good.
18:27 So it seems like the Celtics and JB, et cetera, have really set a precedent with what they're doing
18:34 and have paved a path for others to help people through their foundations as well, which I thought was pretty cool.
18:39 Patrick Williams has had an interesting career with the Bulls.
18:42 I really liked that pick when it came in, and I still think he has shown some flashes.
18:47 Of course, the big challenge for Patrick Williams is that he continues to get hurt.
18:51 And so I will be very interested to see what his next contract looks like,
18:55 because I do think he'll be in the NBA and whether it will be on the Chicago Bulls or not.
19:02 There is a world in which Patrick Williams and a change of scenery could have him blossoming into what I think could ultimately be a very good basketball player.
19:11 Speaking of players who might be more available in the near or immediate future,
19:16 a couple of waiver transactions occurred in the NBA.
19:19 Patty Mills is now available and looking for a team, as is Dylan Windler.
19:24 Shake Milton joined up with the New York Knicks as well,
19:27 providing them with some much needed live bodies off of what is now an injury-riddled run for the Knicks.
19:34 I'm curious, do any of these names move you in the buyout market?
19:40 I mean, Dylan Windler, he's a guy.
19:43 He could probably do about as good as just about anybody that you're going to pick up for a player who's only going to be playing if all hell has broken loose in your postseason hopes.
19:53 We pay an inordinate amount of attention to this, and there's not a lot to talk about, particularly lately with the way the Celtics are playing.
20:01 But of all the names you just mentioned, the only one that's really interesting,
20:05 and I should mention Mike Miscala to Oklahoma City Thunder, if I remember correctly, that's a pretty interesting reunion.
20:11 I would have liked to see one with Boston, too.
20:13 He was, I think, better than he looked in his run with the Celtics previously, but that is not to be.
20:21 Patty Mills, I think, is the guy who can offer you that mix of veteran leadership.
20:27 And in my mind, I don't know how his health is.
20:29 I haven't been paying super close attention to him, but he can't be any worse than Otto Porter with a similar kind of championship corporate knowledge that he can bring to the table,
20:38 as well as maybe the ability to play a game here or there in the postseason.
20:42 Kind of bizarre that Otto Porter did not end up getting bought out by the Utah Jazz after all of that.
20:48 He was probably going to be one of the more sought-after guys available,
20:52 but I guess the Jazz want to keep him around for something, even though whatever the Jazz are cooking is not going great right now this season.
21:03 Kind of by design, but yeah.
21:06 That's all that we have for this portion in the news, but we're about to jump into the Celtics lab portion,
21:11 where Cameron Tabatabaiah will join us off of the press gaggle for some press updates, and then we are going to get into the all NBA conversation.
21:23 Welcome back to the Celtics Lab podcast. Cameron has joined us fresh off of the press gaggle,
21:28 and the Golden State Warriors beat down at the hands of the Boston Celtics 140 to 88, our final score.
21:36 Cameron, what's the vibe over at TD?
21:41 I think the vibe is that the internet is crappy, is that correct?
21:46 A little bit, but it seems to be working.
21:49 Oh, I'm hearing nothing from you guys.
21:53 The vibe is they just beat the pants off the Warriors, and for whatever reason, the Warriors didn't play defense in Jalen Brown.
22:01 As far as defensive schemes go in the NBA, that was about as big a flop as you'll ever see.
22:09 I don't know. I can't think of a time I've seen a team gamble like that and do so poorly with it.
22:16 But yeah, the vibe is good because the Celtics just picked up their third 50-point win of the season.
22:22 We talked a little bit about this earlier, but yeah, pretty epic beatdown,
22:27 and I'm sure that the energy for the locker room with Jalen Brown and Joe Mizzoula is very high right now.
22:34 Cameron, we are here to talk about a little early preview with regard to the All-NBA teams.
22:41 We're going to make a couple of predictions, see where things go, and see if there are any Celtics who might be in that running.
22:47 A couple of details before we get started.
22:50 For the All-NBA teams this year, we're talking about your standard three teams, first, second, and third team, five positions.
22:56 But this time, with a little bit of a wrinkle, the All-NBA teams are positionless this year.
23:02 There are no requirements for bigs, forwards, guards, anything like that.
23:09 It's just pick five and roll with them.
23:12 Players are listed in order of points received in voting, and those tied are listed in alphabetical order by last name.
23:21 And for this year's All-NBA teams, there is, I believe, a 65-game cutoff.
23:28 You have to play 65 regular season games to qualify, so there are some players, such as Joel Embiid,
23:33 who would be, in other years, an obvious lock for one of these All-NBA teams, given his season, but he will not qualify.
23:42 So as we make our teams here, folks, we are going to be adhering to those rules.
23:48 You have to be a realistic candidate to play 65 games in order to qualify, and all the names that we have listed here are as such.
23:58 Cameron, we're going to go to you first.
24:00 Your first team All-NBA picks right now.
24:06 Well, let me do this, not to take away all the intrigue, but we have, all three of us have the same All-NBA first team,
24:12 so I'll read you the whole team.
24:14 And I will say, I've talked to a few people who have a vote, and they say that they're probably going to still kind of honor the positions situation,
24:22 like it's unlikely that they will pick five-point cards.
24:24 So correct me if I'm wrong, I think we all have Luka Doncic, Shea Gilgis-Alexander, Jason Tatum, Giannis Atentagumbo, and Nikola Jokic on our All-NBA first teams, correct?
24:35 That is correct.
24:38 And I don't mean to be too pompous about the Celtics Lab podcast, but we're right about this.
24:46 I think so.
24:47 That is going to be first team almost certainly.
24:50 There's very little chance that that changes at this point.
24:54 I don't know if PrizePicks has a thing that you can get involved with for this, but they should, because it'd be a great way to earn some free money.
25:02 Yeah, I mean, realistically, guys.
25:04 Unless someone from our second or third team averages like 40 points down the stretch, I can't see a world where these guys get supplanted.
25:17 Who would be the most likely to fall if there's a name you would get rid of, who would it be?
25:23 I mean, at least for me.
25:26 Jokic, SGA, those are the two leading MVP candidates right now.
25:34 One of those guys is going to be the MVP of the league this year, so you can't leave them off.
25:39 The only chance of one of those two not being the MVP is if Giannis Atentagumbo has a monster run in this back half of the season.
25:46 To me, he's an obvious lock from a statistical standpoint.
25:50 If we want a reward winning, Jason Tatum is the best player on the team that is running away with the best record in the league.
25:57 To me, it feels crazy to leave that player off.
26:01 And so the only player there that even feels like would be slightly in danger of losing their spot is Luka Doncic.
26:09 But Luka Doncic is having an absurd offensive season.
26:13 I'm just going to pull up his stats right now as we talk.
26:18 But he's been one of the best scoring players in the NBA.
26:23 Right now he's averaging 34.99 on nearly 50% shooting and nearly 40% shooting from deep.
26:31 That is an incredible offensive season, and I just don't see any way that you can leave him off of that first game.
26:37 So to me, all five of them are locks.
26:40 If any of them...
26:42 Go ahead. I want to hear more.
26:45 I don't know how many games played he's at, but maybe he's going to flirt with us.
26:53 I don't know, just the stink around the box.
26:59 These are less narrative based awards, but all the other guys are playing for teams that are meeting or exceeding expectations.
27:07 And Giannis is not.
27:09 When we get into our second teams, I can think of a few candidates who, if they get hot down the stretch, just like the aura around them.
27:17 However, like emotional and not intellectual that read is, I think that matters.
27:22 So I could get to it when we get to our second team.
27:25 I have at least one name that I think could bump Giannis, but I think we're in agreement.
27:32 It's unlikely these aren't the five guys.
27:34 It's almost impossible.
27:35 For me, I think Luca has at least a tiny chance of getting bumped just because of all the other players mentioned.
27:40 He is the least two way player and his impact on his own team is having the worst, and it is a very good effect, but the worst effect overall.
27:49 And let's be clear, those are very crappy reasons to take someone off first team.
27:54 As we were hinting, it would take an utterly absurd amount of success for any of the second team candidates to even have a chance of exceeding him.
28:03 So with that in mind, let's pop over to our second teams where there's a little bit more differentiation.
28:10 JQ, you're going to go first.
28:12 Who do you have for second team All-NBA this year?
28:14 So Jalen Brown, Devin Booker, Kevin Durant, Kawhi Leonard, Ant Edwards.
28:22 The general gist, with the exception of Booker here, I just put the next best two way players that I could find.
28:30 It doesn't seem to me to be too controversial with who I ended up picking.
28:35 I don't know about you guys, but the whole not needing to honor as some of the other voters are going to do the positions made this such an easy...
28:44 I spent probably like almost two hours the last time around we did this last year trying to figure out what my teams were going to be.
28:51 It was like maybe 20 minutes at this time.
28:55 Cam, we're going to swing to you. Do you agree with JQ or do you have any subs that you want to throw in?
29:01 I think I have a lot of subs. Wait, did you... is JB Jalen or Jalen Brunson?
29:09 Jalen.
29:10 Oh, I have Jalen Brunson on mine.
29:13 Okay.
29:14 First of all, I think he deserves it or is flirting with deserving it.
29:19 Second of all, I think a Knicks guy on an overachieving Knicks team is going to get an extra look.
29:25 To that end, I mean not after this stinker, I had Steph Curry. I might take Steph Curry off and replace him.
29:33 Maybe with Booker or Ant, but then I have LeBron, Kawhi, and Durant.
29:38 Kawhi is my guy to gun for first team.
29:40 It's not like in his or the Clippers character to turn up the heat down the stretch, but he's been playing so well.
29:47 He's as in the mix for MVP as Tatum is.
29:50 I could see a world where if he averages 30 points for 10 straight games and Giannis has a clunker,
29:56 Kawhi was going to be my guy who could maybe make it to the first team.
29:59 I feel pretty strong about Kawhi on the second team.
30:02 I've got Brunson, Curry, LeBron, Kawhi, Durant, and a lot of that is gamesmanship.
30:08 Kawhi Leonard was definitely my easiest lock for my second team.
30:13 That guy's playing outstanding basketball right now, and the Clippers continue to stack up wins,
30:19 including a pretty bizarre win over the Wolves earlier today. Fascinating stuff.
30:25 But speaking of the Wolves, Anthony Edwards is also on my second team,
30:29 along with Devin Booker and Kevin Durant from the Phoenix Suns,
30:32 who are kind of quietly starting to play a little bit better despite Bradley Beal being out again.
30:39 And in the spirit of rewarding winning and rewarding teams that maybe have exceeded expectations,
30:44 my last second team spot has gone to Donovan Mitchell,
30:47 who has the Cavs rolling as the second seed in the Eastern Conference right now.
30:51 They're tied with Milwaukee, so that could change.
30:54 But I don't know that I had that kind of expectations for Cleveland this year
30:58 after they flamed out in the playoffs so hard against the Mets last year.
31:02 And to see Mitchell in particular put this team on his back while they dealt with injuries to Garland
31:08 and Mobley and really put in a terrific offensive season, to me it was very hard to leave him off.
31:14 And ultimately I went with him for second team.
31:21 Any additional thoughts on second team? Do we have any guys who might be rising and/or falling here?
31:27 For me, if I was going to see any of the people who I picked,
31:33 it would be Kawhi who would be most likely to go up a level.
31:37 If the Clippers finish the season on a high note and he continues to play and stays healthy,
31:42 he could very easily be that guy who forces his way onto a first team.
31:46 For me, anyway.
31:48 If I was going to take anyone off, particularly using my own rubric of being a two-way elite player in this league,
31:55 for me, that would be Devin Booker ends up falling to third team.
32:00 Can I say my guy that should be on the second team but isn't because, again, I think there's something political about this?
32:09 It's DeMontis Sabonis.
32:11 He's averaging 19.9 points and a 13.2 rebounds to go with 8.4 assists.
32:19 It's not as overpowering as Jokic, it's not as heliocentric.
32:26 He plays alongside other good players, but quietly, and maybe gets quiet because he plays in Sacramento,
32:32 DeMontis Sabonis, who made All-NBA last season, is having an even better season this time around.
32:38 There's not a chance he ends up on any of these teams, but sometimes when people do this thought exercise,
32:45 they do it like a playground draft.
32:47 I'd pick Sabonis.
32:49 I might pick him in the top 10 because he's so effective.
32:52 Not on defense, and I'm going to ignore that part of the argument, but what Sabonis is doing with the ball has been super duper incredible.
33:01 For so many reasons, it's not relevant to the All-NBA conversation, but I think we did this last year.
33:07 Is defense relevant to All-NBA?
33:09 I mean, how relevant is it in this NBA?
33:12 I'm not saying defense doesn't matter, but should we be weighting offense more in today's NBA, considering how important it is?
33:19 I actually am going to go the opposite on that.
33:22 I actually think defense is more important because of how much the rules and the style of play allow for freedom of movement and offensive explosions.
33:35 I do not have Sabonis on any of my All-NBA teams.
33:38 None of us do.
33:40 In part because he is having an outstanding offensive season, but to me, you have to at least be able to put up a fight on defense.
33:49 I don't think Luka Doncic is a particularly good defender, but he at least kind of knows where to be and stand.
33:56 You'll notice with all of my All-NBA picks, for the most part, none of them are absolute sieves on defense.
34:04 You could make the argument for Donovan Mitchell, but I just feel like when it comes playoff time, Donovan Mitchell can at least get into people and force steals and just kind of be in the right spot.
34:15 Durant, Kawhi, Anthony Edwards, Devin Booker, those guys are all good defenders in addition to being prolific scorers.
34:22 I feel like there has to be at least a baseline level of decent on defense.
34:27 And unfortunately for Damanis Sabonis, that guy just gets shredded in the pick and roll pretty reliably.
34:34 So I do not have him on my teams.
34:37 But for me, risers and fallers, I'm thinking probably the most likely to rise for me is still Kawhi Leonard.
34:44 I do want to give a quick shout out to Anthony Edwards, who has had a terrific season.
34:48 He's cooled off a little bit in the second half, but man, that guy is good at basketball and he is definitely going to be a first team All-NBA player, I think, sooner rather than later.
35:00 As far as possible fallers, Mitchell would probably be the one for me.
35:06 I rewarded the winning more so than anything and the fact that the Cavs are exceeding expectations in spite of a ton of injuries, largely because of Mitchell's play.
35:15 But from a statistical standpoint, there are other guys who are pretty close to him and you could make a somewhat reasonable argument that they are more deserving of that second team spot.
35:25 Brunson, of course, is one of them.
35:27 But for me, I just really value how Mitchell was able to kind of backpack this team through some pretty rough sledding.
35:35 Let's move it on to third team, where I think we have a little bit more of a breakdown here.
35:42 Not quite as much in common as in previous teams.
35:46 Cameron, you'll get first crack at this one.
35:48 Who do you have third team so far this season?
35:50 Okay, well, breaking news, I switched Curry with Ant Edwards.
35:56 I put Ant Edwards on my second team and I put Curry on my third team.
36:01 So my third team is Tyrese Halliburton, Donovan Mitchell.
36:05 This is where I have Devin Booker, Steph Curry, and Anthony Davis.
36:09 Dr. Quinn, to your point about like, does defense matter?
36:12 This is the case where I think actually Anthony Davis gets the nod because he's a star that ConsenSys wants to reward and his defense gets him over the hump.
36:21 So my third team was Halliburton, Mitchell, Booker, Curry, and Anthony Davis.
36:26 Fabulous.
36:28 JQ, anything to add or subtract there?
36:32 Well, do you want my team or just –
36:34 Yeah.
36:35 Okay.
36:36 So I actually had a pretty different milieu of players, shall we say.
36:42 And the rationale that I brought to this was really, for me, just affects winning.
36:47 And here I really didn't worry as much about Devens.
36:51 I looked at of these guys, who are the players who I think are impacting winning the most right now?
36:58 And for me, that ended up being Tyrese Halliburton, Maxie, Donovan Mitchell, Jalen Brunson, and Jamal Murray.
37:09 I had Brunson lower than you guys because I'm still not quite a believer as much as you guys are.
37:16 I think that for me to have him on a second team, I would need to have New York just a little bit higher in the standings than they currently are.
37:23 But I don't fault anyone who looks at what he's been doing for the Knicks and says, "This guy should be on an all-NBA team," because he should.
37:32 He's one of the better players in the East and really the NBA.
37:38 What is going on with my third team there?
37:40 Okay.
37:41 You will notice I did not have Curry on my team.
37:44 This was before the game, and this is really why.
37:48 He is still a very, very good player, but his defense has not been as good, and he has not been as consistent.
37:55 I think that he's kind of floating on past achievements if we're going to have him anywhere above third team, in my opinion.
38:04 I will say, Dr. Ben, really quickly, I don't think Jamal Murray is going to hit 65 games. He's at 45 right now.
38:11 Yeah, you're probably right. Maybe I shouldn't have had him on there, but for now, he definitely qualifies.
38:18 All right, Alex, you go. Dr. Quinn, you come up with a backup.
38:21 So I did have Jamal Murray on my team in the hope that he does play that amount of games.
38:26 I'm not sure he will, so I'll name a backup as well.
38:29 For me, it would be Steph Curry, who I currently have off of all of my all-NBA teams.
38:36 Steph Curry is a great player, and he still gives me nightmares.
38:39 But to your point, J.Q., the Warriors have had a really up-and-down season, and while Steph has been statistically great,
38:46 it doesn't feel like he's having the same impact where he's able to lift an inferior team to a higher plane.
38:54 And some of the things that have been working for the Warriors are guys like Kaminga and Pazemski playing well and starting to kind of find their rhythm,
39:02 but it doesn't really feel like he's kind of carrying the team in the way that some of these other guys have been.
39:10 So for the remainder of my team, I have Jalen Brown on my third team.
39:14 I just think this has been the best season that he's ever had in his NBA career.
39:18 He's been really, really good, and I want to reward that, particularly given that Boston is running away with the league's best record.
39:24 I also feel like it's worth having two guys on the all-NBA team.
39:29 And if you're going to have a second guy, with apologies to Chris Stapps, Borzingas, and Derek White and Drew Holiday, who have all been great,
39:34 Jalen Brown has pretty clearly been the Celtic's second-best player.
39:38 I particularly want to give a shout-out to his defense, which has been excellent this year.
39:43 He put the clamps on the aforementioned Steph Curry earlier in this game, and he's just been night and day on that level.
39:52 For my other third-team spots, I went with Jamal Murray, and Steph Curry would be my alternate if he doesn't make that '65 game cutoff.
40:03 I rewarded Jalen Brunson, who is having an excellent season for the Knicks, and the Knicks are, in general, playing better than they have been.
40:10 This one feels a little shaky to me, because I think there's a world in which the Knicks could be in for some tough sledding as the remainder of the season goes on.
40:19 Particularly, their injury problems are pretty brutal right now.
40:23 So that's in pencil, not in pen for me.
40:27 One guy that I did have in pen, and that I think not enough people are necessarily acknowledging--
40:32 Don't you steal my guy! You're going to do it, aren't you?
40:34 I'm going to do it. Bam Adebayo has been spectacular this season, guys.
40:42 He's currently averaging 20-10 on 51% shooting with four assists, and on top of that, he's going to maybe win Defensive Player of the Year.
40:52 Bam has been really carrying this Miami team basically all year.
40:58 Jimmy Butler has been in and out of the lineup. They've had a ton of injuries.
41:01 They've had inconsistent play from Duncan Robinson and others.
41:04 Bam has been the straw that stirs the drink for Miami this year.
41:08 It's been easily his best season as a pro, and he's a big part of why they are still in the playoff mix and starting to find their rhythm late in the season.
41:17 For me, Bam has to be on an All-NBA team.
41:21 And for my last slot, in thinking about players who have reputations as being All-NBA-level guys--
41:30 I may have slighted Steph Curry, I acknowledge that.
41:34 And there are guys that I am leaving off of the All-NBA team who have very good cases to make it over this guy.
41:42 Some of the young guns of the NBA, like your Tyrese Maxxies, like your Paolo Bancheros.
41:47 But it doesn't really feel like an All-NBA team if LeBron James does not make the All-NBA team.
41:54 And to that point, LeBron James has had an excellent season. 25 points, 7 rebounds, 8 assists, 52% from the floor, 40% from deep.
42:08 And crucially, LeBron James has played 54 games this year, which is more than LeBron James has been playing in a little bit.
42:15 And the Lakers are struggling this year. It's been a tough season for them, but they are still very much alive in that lower half of the Western Conference bracket.
42:25 They are now clearly going to be at least one of the last play-in teams, at a minimum.
42:31 And the separation between the 10th seed and the 6th seed right now is three games.
42:39 There is enough time for the Lakers to crawl their way out of this play-in tournament.
42:43 And if LeBron keeps playing at the level that he has been, and boy, has he been playing well lately,
42:49 I think particularly taking control of the game against the Clippers and really putting his stamp on that in a pretty momentous win for them,
42:59 to me, that's pretty significant. And so I couldn't leave LeBron off. I just can't do it.
43:06 I like that you had LeBron on there, because he has been playing more lately, and it's been having an impact.
43:14 That is actually why I almost put him on as my last person besides Murray, who honestly has not been given enough.
43:23 I mean, I don't think he's ever made All-Star. He's a national champion and has never made the All-Star just because the West is so jacked that he never has a chance, right?
43:31 So I wanted to reward Murray. If Murray doesn't make it, the guy I had on my list before him was Zion Williamson,
43:38 who again is having an impact in a major way as point Zion. And he's been, I think he's played 50 games this season.
43:48 So as far, that might be a career high for him, if I'm not mistaken, which is pretty scary.
43:53 So let's get the guy on an All-NBA team, just in case. I'm not going to finish that sentence.
43:59 We all know where I'm going with that. Yeah, fair enough.
44:03 Anything to add here, fellas, before we say goodnight and sail off into the joy of another massive beatdown victory for the Boston Celtics,
44:12 the headline of today's episode. Anybody in danger of falling out,
44:17 anybody who might be deserving of second unit, second teams on your lists?
44:23 I mean, I would just quickly of the players that we were talking about, Carl Anthony Towns didn't get a mention.
44:28 Maybe he will. De'Aaron Fox and Paul George didn't get mentioned. Maybe they will.
44:33 Laurie Markkinen, similar to Sabonis, like deserves some sort of, I don't know, like honorable mention or ribbon.
44:42 But I don't know. I think between the three of us, we probably have 17 names across our team.
44:50 So like, it does feel like there's a pretty obvious cut. And then the next year, guys, like part of, I think,
44:57 why we just do this as early as we did is like, it's maybe not as competitive as years past.
45:04 I don't know. I'll be curious with the position list thing.
45:07 I mostly did mine based on position that like helped give me structure and thinking about it.
45:12 I wouldn't be surprised if the all NBA teams end up looking pretty tiered by position at the end of the day.
45:20 Yeah, no, it's not easy. I mean, there's a lot of really good players.
45:23 But right now, I think the most important thing about the NBA teams and about the all NBA discussion in general
45:31 is that the Boston Celtics have the best record in the NBA.
45:34 And all of these great players aside, it only matters who's holding the trophy at the end.
45:41 And Boston seems like they have a great shot at that.
45:44 Anyway, this has been another episode of the Celtics Lab podcast.
45:47 Thank you for listening. And this episode of the Celtics Lab podcast is brought to you by PrizePix,
45:52 the exclusive fantasy basketball partner of the CLNS Media Network.
45:56 If you enjoyed the pod, check out our friends at How 'Bout Them Celtics and First to the Floor,
46:00 as well as the many other New England sports podcasts available on the CLNS Media Network.
46:05 Cameron, where can we find your stuff?
46:08 On the internet, I suppose. Celtics Lab, Celtics Wire, any little Twitter account, you know, the usual.
46:17 And Dr. Quinn, where can we find your stuff?
46:20 If you're listening to this on the web, then I would go to Celtics Wire, as we usually want to do to find this material.
46:29 You can also find some of my stuff, as we alluded to earlier, on Bolt and Spurs Wire and occasionally other NBA Wire sites.
46:35 And you can catch my stuff on my Twitter account @Designer_Smart.
46:40 If you're looking for music tastes and music stuff, I hope you enjoyed the song at the very beginning of this podcast.
46:47 You can check out my band, Divine Sweater.
46:49 And as always, we thank you very much for listening, and we will see you and talk to you again very soon.
46:55 Goodbye.
46:56 [Music]
Comments