NDIS estimates $1.4b loss to payment errors and fraud
An estimated one point four billion dollars was lost from the national disability insurance scheme last financial year because of payment errors, including fraud and over claiming.
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00:00 It's been quite an exponential growth in the number.
00:05 And I think it's something that not only the agency, but the NDIS Quality and Safeguards
00:09 Commission needs to take very seriously.
00:12 How does this happen?
00:13 Well, that's a really good question.
00:17 One of the things that advocates talk to me about all the time is that people with disability
00:21 are coming to them having, you know, really unfair contracts that they're being asked
00:26 to sign with providers, with providers charging them money, but not actually getting the services
00:31 that they've asked for, or charging them for things that they're not allowed to charge
00:35 for.
00:36 So we're hearing this all across the country.
00:40 Advocates and people with disability then make complaints about it to the Quality and
00:43 Safeguards Commission, who are meant to be the watchdogs on the beat, but are not seeing
00:48 any kind of systemic action to change that, or the kind of regulatory pressure that we
00:54 need.
00:55 One of the things that the agency has confirmed, though, is that this category of what's called
01:00 supported independent living, which are supports for people with the higher support needs.
01:05 So these are people who need support all the time.
01:10 And that a lot of this is happening for providers who provide those services.
01:14 And what we know is that increasingly, there are providers who are not registered and who
01:20 have very little oversight, who are providing support to people with disability in this
01:26 category.
01:27 And that is a really significant concern.
01:29 How much of it is fraud, do you think?
01:31 Or is most of it inadvertent over claiming?
01:35 Yeah, I'd be really reluctant to talk about it as deliberate fraud.
01:40 I don't think that that's what's going on.
01:43 The NDIS is really complicated.
01:46 The current system that we're hoping to see addressed in the NDIS review later this week
01:52 is extremely complex.
01:53 There are layers of bureaucracy between people with disability and providers and the services
01:58 that we use.
02:00 And getting that right all the time is really difficult.
02:04 So I think the kind of combination of an old-fashioned IT system in the agency and this kind of complexity
02:11 and layers of bureaucracy do mean that mistakes get made.
02:15 But the quantum getting up to like over 4% is really showing that something is going
02:20 wrong at a fundamental level.
02:23 As you say, the review into the NDIS is out tomorrow.
02:26 It's expected to outline measures to rein in spending.
02:29 Is this a system which has grown too quickly?
02:34 I don't think that's probably the way to categorise it.
02:38 People with disability need essential supports to do fancy things like get out of bed, have
02:44 a shower, go to work and go to school.
02:47 And how we pay for that as part of our public services, like we do with health and transport,
02:52 are really important parts of our national budget, but also about state and territory
02:57 budgets.
02:58 They're the kinds of things that we're really proud of about Australia, that we look after
03:01 each other and make sure we have what we need.
03:04 But we know that the NDIS isn't working right.
03:07 And the current kind of real focus on the market model as the way to deliver this, I'm
03:13 not sure is the best way to do that.
03:16 And it is something that the review has looked at, whether this is the right way to do this
03:21 and whether there are people out to make, like providers out to make a profit at the
03:25 expense of people with disability.
03:27 It will be really interesting to see how much the review actually tackles those things.
03:32 Yeah, you make a really good point about the states versus the Commonwealth.
03:35 But I guess one of the other arguments as well is that the scheme now includes children
03:41 who might be neurodiverse or who have autism, and maybe that was not what the system was
03:47 designed for initially.
03:49 Perhaps, but, you know, kids who need support, particularly when they start school, we need
03:56 to make sure that they get that support.
03:59 I think it's really widely understood now that the best thing we can do for kids is
04:03 to do early intervention to make sure that they've got the kinds of supports and specialist
04:09 help that they need before they start school and right when they start school.
04:13 But how we do that best for kids and best for families, again, is something that I know
04:18 that the review is going to look at later this week.
04:21 Is it best delivered in the kind of individualised support plans that the NDIS does?
04:26 Or is it best to deliver it via schools and early childhood services?
04:30 I don't know, but it will be interesting to see what the review says.
04:34 Whatever it does say, though, it will be really important for not only state and territory
04:39 governments but the federal government to sit down at the table with us, with people
04:43 with disability and our organisations, to make sure that we do this properly so that
04:49 no person with disability is going without the essential supports that we need.
04:53 Elle Gibbs, how concerned are you by the latest polling published in the SMH and the Age Today
04:58 which shows that 43% of respondents want the government to rein in spending?
05:02 That's up from the last poll in May.
05:05 - Marina, you can see my sceptical face about this.
05:10 I think there's been a quite relentless campaign against the essential supports for people
05:14 with disability for some time.
05:17 And very few of the voices of us talking about why it's really important to make sure we
05:22 have what we need.
05:23 So I'm not really surprised that there has been a slight change in public opinion.
05:29 And I really hope that we can have a conversation that is led by people with disability and
05:34 we can have a conversation that doesn't keep portraying us as kind of burdens and costs
05:40 when we're actually equal citizens making a really significant contribution.
05:45 [BLANK_AUDIO]