LIVE Patriots Beat: Patriots vs Commanders RECAP

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Transcript

00:00 Another live Patriots beat right here on the CLNS media network.

00:03 It is Brian Hines from Pat's Pulpit with Alex Barth from 985 Esports Hub.

00:08 Back after another Patriots defeat,

00:12 dropping 2017 to the actively tanking, question mark,

00:17 Washington commanders who traded their best two pass rushers away on Tuesday's

00:23 deadline and they come in here and they beat the Patriots 2017.

00:27 Patriots now two and seven on the year.

00:30 And Alex, it was just kind of another game of what we've seen all year, right?

00:34 Like an early 10 point deficit, which they actually climb out of, but

00:39 struggling to consistently move the football.

00:41 Just three, they had three drives with more than five plays,

00:45 which just isn't how you win in this game, or in this league.

00:48 Back Jones up and down.

00:50 Hate to blame the defense, but

00:52 wasn't a great defensive performance that we can get into.

00:55 But it was just another one of these not pretty games in all three stages from

00:59 the Patriots this year against a pretty bad commander's team that is out there

01:05 trying to get worse trading their best players away.

01:08 >> Yeah, it was bad.

01:09 It was all around bad.

01:10 Now, I don't know that the commanders are tanking, but

01:13 I think this kind of gets to the point of they were three and five.

01:18 And they said, you know what?

01:20 These two guys, they're not a part of our long term plan.

01:23 We got to three and five with them.

01:25 Clearly, they're not helping us win games.

01:27 Let's move them and look for help in the future.

01:30 I think that's the bigger takeaway here.

01:31 Not that the Patriots lost to a tanking team.

01:33 It's that even if the plan was to still win, clearly these guys that we talked

01:38 about on the expiring deals, Josh Uche, Kyle Duggar, Michael Nguyen.

01:42 These are not players that were helping the Patriots win football games.

01:46 Even if the goal is to win, these are not players who are helping with that.

01:49 So if the plan is not to bring them back,

01:53 there was no excuse not to move them.

01:56 And again, we talked about this last week immediately after the deadline, but

02:00 I think this is just hammered home.

02:01 If they don't end up re-signing, call it at least two or three.

02:05 If one guy, it's the NFL, guys, get away, it happens.

02:10 But if all three of those guys are gone- >> Massive failure.

02:14 >> They're gonna be in the same spot Washington's in.

02:17 They're gonna be in the same spot Washington's in,

02:19 except Washington will have more picks.

02:21 And that's a team that might be trading up to get a quarterback, by the way,

02:25 that now has those negotiating chips, a second and

02:27 third round pick that the Patriots don't.

02:29 So no, the issue isn't to me that the Patriots lost to a tanking team.

02:34 The issue is clearly the goal is still to win football games, agree or disagree.

02:38 That is the goal.

02:39 This is not a team in the Patriots that is actively trying to lose.

02:42 Whether it's cuz Belichick's chasing Schuller, or that's just how he's wired,

02:46 or it's some of both, they're not trying to lose games.

02:49 They still could have traded players and won.

02:51 Washington commanders case in point.

02:54 >> Yep, two opposite directions at the trade deadline.

02:57 But I don't know, you're not sold on Sam Howell as the commander's

03:01 quarterback of the future after the game yesterday?

03:03 >> No, that was a weird take yesterday, like Sam Howell's just suddenly-

03:06 >> Robert Rivera.

03:07 >> Sam Howell's really good.

03:09 Draft fourth round quarterbacks, and he played well against bad defense.

03:14 That's hardly the guy he's been, that's probably his best game of the year.

03:17 I think that will end up being his best game of the year.

03:19 He was fine, I don't wanna say he was bad.

03:21 But I don't think you can look at his full body of work, not just that game.

03:27 You have to look at his full body of work.

03:28 If he's that every week, great, he hasn't been.

03:31 You can't look at his full body of work and tell me if you have a chance at

03:35 Michael Penix, or you have a chance at Quinn Ewers, or you have a chance at

03:39 JJ McCarthy or Jaden Daniels, that you're just gonna say nope, nope,

03:43 we're riding with Sam Howell.

03:45 Now maybe you draft one of those guys in the second or

03:47 third round to compete with Howell.

03:49 But no, I'm not convinced Sam Howell's some kind of answer.

03:51 I know that Rivera said, I think Rivera's just trying to stick it to ownership.

03:56 I don't think he's happy with the way the deadline happened.

03:58 I think he sees the writing on the wall that they are starting to drive him out.

04:02 And I think he's saying, look, I can still win games.

04:05 Sam Howell, my guy, he can win games.

04:07 If ownership wants to move on, they can move on.

04:09 But look at what we just did.

04:10 I think that's the whole point.

04:12 And he made it emphatically.

04:13 I forget if I was walking out, was that with you or

04:17 with Mike Kadlik or whoever we walked by?

04:20 >> Rivera.

04:22 >> Yeah, I was with you.

04:22 Yeah, I walked by Ron Rivera.

04:23 He's gotta feel really good right now after the week he just had.

04:27 So look, credit to the commanders.

04:29 I mean, we're gonna sit here and talk a lot in the next 40 minutes about

04:33 everything the Patriots did wrong.

04:34 Credit to the commanders.

04:35 They played a good game.

04:37 And I don't wanna take that away from them.

04:39 This was another rough game for the Patriots.

04:42 >> Yep, maybe even beating his replacement coach over there at Washington.

04:46 But we'll get to Howell a little more later, but

04:50 we can start with the Patriots quarterback, Mac Jones.

04:53 Look, he wasn't helped, right?

04:57 He had a few nice throws.

05:00 Rager had the bad drop.

05:01 The Juju- >> Two of his three best throws were dropped.

05:04 >> Yeah, Next Gen had the stats that he threw into the Patriots,

05:09 the highest percent of tight windows in his career.

05:11 The wide receivers were not good, and we can get to the wide receivers too.

05:15 But it was more just of this up and down for Mac.

05:19 He had the good throws that the guys didn't make, but

05:22 there were just plenty of bad throws too.

05:23 You talk the first drive on that fourth down, he misses a wide open Taequann Thornton.

05:27 And it's plenty of time.

05:29 He said, I had protection, I had my feet, I just missed the throw.

05:33 And this is a guy who's known for accuracy.

05:36 And we see that back foot stuff on that wheel route later in the game.

05:40 Dora Mondra, he almost should have had another pick to Emmanuel Forbes.

05:45 He said that was their goal to throw out Emmanuel Forbes,

05:47 who's had a rough rookie year.

05:48 And I think they completed two or seven passes against him.

05:52 So just another one of these, there's too much bad for Mac too.

05:58 You barely string together 17 points again, and one of those is off a turnover.

06:04 And one of those scoring drives is you hit two big explosive plays finally.

06:08 So just not enough consistency and too many bad plays for Mac again in this one.

06:14 >> Yeah, he was better, but he wasn't good enough, plain and simple.

06:16 It didn't help.

06:17 I thought the throw to Juju, the throw to Rager were two of his three best throws

06:20 in the game.

06:21 The throw to Hunter Henry for the touchdown was an absolute dot.

06:23 >> That was a very good throw.

06:25 >> Every other throw he made, and I thought the offensive line was gonna be

06:29 a disaster given who they were facing and not having Trent Brown.

06:36 I actually thought there was one,

06:37 they got lucky on the strip sack that was called rough in the past for some reason.

06:42 Besides that, I thought the offensive line played well.

06:44 I thought more so than really any game except for the Buffalo game this one.

06:47 Mac Jones had time, he had clean pockets, he had room to operate.

06:51 Yet he's still not stepping up.

06:52 He's still not stepping into throws.

06:54 There's a lot of jump passes.

06:55 There's a lot of passes off the back foot.

06:58 And it results in balls that are short and or inaccurate.

07:02 The wheel route to Armando Simonson, that's a touchdown.

07:04 If Mac puts it over the top, instead he puts it short, the pass is broken up.

07:08 That's the big one that stands out in my mind.

07:10 But you go back and look, he's throwing off the back foot a lot.

07:13 The mechanics are just messed up.

07:15 He's not doing it every week, but it's consistency.

07:18 This is what we talked about after the Bills game.

07:20 If he could play that way every week, great.

07:22 They have an offense, they have a football team.

07:25 He can't do it consistently.

07:26 And it's not in this game like he faced that much,

07:30 like he didn't throw a pick early.

07:31 He wasn't really getting hit early.

07:34 Last week against Miami, he was good until he threw the pick.

07:36 And then it all fell apart and he looked at it and he said, all right,

07:38 he got rattled.

07:40 He needs to have a better short memory.

07:41 He actually, after the offense as a whole,

07:43 at a rough start, came back and threw that touchdown pass.

07:45 So I'm like, okay, here we go.

07:47 Until the mechanics fell apart again.

07:51 So I don't know if something happened on the sideline.

07:55 I know he sort of blew up it.

07:57 I don't know if it was Taekwon or himself or whatever on that third down early in

08:01 the second quarter where Taekwon got benched after that play.

08:05 Yeah, I don't know what it was, but he clearly got rattled and

08:10 the mechanics completely fell away.

08:12 And when that happens, that's it.

08:13 >> Yeah, I mean, we talked about last week.

08:16 You can usually tell within the first drive or

08:19 two what version of Mac you're gonna get, right?

08:21 And I mean, it started decent and then they missed Taekwon, but

08:26 then he had protection, as you said, he was only under pressure.

08:31 I think it was just over 20% of the time,

08:33 which was like that Bill's game that he played really well.

08:35 But it just wasn't there with the mechanics and the consistency.

08:39 The remandre one you mentioned was the big one to me.

08:41 Like, it's touchdown, just lob that out there.

08:45 Again, he's an accuracy guy.

08:46 These are the throws you expect him to hit.

08:50 Coming out of Alabama, just throw that deep touch pass downfield.

08:54 And but he's on his back foot fading away.

08:57 It's under thrown and it's incomplete.

08:59 So just two up and down and not consistent enough.

09:05 Again, only scoring 17 points, extending three drives past five plays,

09:08 just not good enough to cut it.

09:11 The receivers weren't good either.

09:12 Like they didn't help him.

09:14 You mentioned Taekwon got benched.

09:16 He said it was injury related.

09:17 Bill said this morning he was available in the second half.

09:20 So he got benched.

09:21 He had that really bad route on third down that was going around Twitter a lot.

09:25 Where it looks like he was running a basketball foot fire drill before he

09:29 breaks out there to the sideline.

09:31 And then he had the drop on the next third down which Mac was yelling at him.

09:34 Rager had the big drop down field.

09:38 He caught one of six targets.

09:40 Juju, his best statistical game.

09:43 And then he has the ball clank off his hands on that last drive there.

09:48 Pop was pretty good again as the receivers, but none of that group helped Mac.

09:54 And that was a game where you're missing DeWolfe Parker, you're missing Kendrick

09:59 Boren, it's like let's see if one of these young guys can take that next step and

10:03 help this offense, but there just wasn't any of that from that group on Sunday.

10:08 >> Nope, nope, and we talked about who was gonna kind of step up and

10:11 claim that third spot.

10:12 Keyshawn Booty didn't have a chance and by the way,

10:14 that's an I don't know what's going on there.

10:17 And my theory, Bill said he had the best week of practice.

10:20 Bill did not say he had a good week of practice.

10:22 And that might be the thing is best isn't good enough.

10:24 What I would say is even if that's the case,

10:27 it's not good enough to get a look with this group.

10:29 They can't play.

10:31 >> It's gotta be better than Jalen Rager or Juju or something, right?

10:35 Like you have nothing to lose.

10:36 >> They don't feel comfortable playing.

10:37 Taekwon couldn't get past four snaps or 12 snaps.

10:40 They targeted him four times on those 12 snaps.

10:42 Mack wanted to get in the ball.

10:44 It wasn't there.

10:45 So Keyshawn Booty, I think is the guy you have to give a look.

10:48 I don't care if he doesn't look great in practice.

10:50 You're two and seven at this point.

10:51 See what he looks like.

10:53 So that was bizarre.

10:54 Yeah, they needed somebody to emerge from the wide receiver group.

10:58 It was this chance for all these guys and Taekwon's the one that kills me.

11:01 He's a second round pick.

11:02 Mack gave him every opportunity.

11:04 The early fourth down, I don't think that's a great throw from Mack.

11:08 But at the same time, he threw it at the right time.

11:12 And Taekwon's fast enough that he should catch up to that ball.

11:16 He didn't come out of his break at full speed.

11:18 So, bad all around, but the route that's going around on Twitter right now,

11:23 on that final play, on that final third down, where Taekwon gets to the top of

11:27 the route, basically stomps his feet six times, totally decelerates, and

11:31 then soft breaks out into outside leverage.

11:33 Can't have it.

11:35 So for a guy that I think had, that was his opportunity to be like,

11:39 I am a second round pick.

11:40 I am the guy who's supposed to be elevating this offense.

11:42 Here's, I'm healthy now.

11:43 Here's my chance to prove it.

11:45 He didn't grab it.

11:47 He didn't grab that opportunity, and that's unfortunate.

11:49 >> Yeah, and I think it was Phil Perry was saying that's something we even saw

11:54 in training camp at OTAs.

11:56 Bill Belichick was literally in the wide receiver group running those fake routes.

12:01 And there was a drill that he was at the top saying,

12:04 you can't foot fire like that, you can't stop your feet.

12:07 And to see Taekwon still doing that in year two, in week nine here,

12:11 it's disappointing.

12:12 But yeah, you gotta give Booty a chance.

12:16 And I saw a lot of people online being like, he must just not be good, and

12:20 he must not be playing well in practice.

12:22 It's obviously what it is, but

12:24 none of the guys you're putting on the field right now are good in performing.

12:28 So what is there to lose?

12:30 Why not just put him out there and see at this point?

12:34 I would also ask, why is he here?

12:36 They've needed roster spots.

12:38 We've hit points recently where they've needed,

12:41 the whole Malik Cunningham saga, the Vegas game.

12:43 They've needed roster spots.

12:45 This guy's taking up a roster spot, he can't get on the field.

12:48 Now, I'm sure the answer would be, he's a developmental player.

12:52 He's not ready to play right now, but we like his ceiling.

12:55 We don't wanna risk having him on the practice squad and

12:57 somebody else signing him.

12:58 We're essentially redshirting him on the active roster, which, okay,

13:02 that's kind of what we thought this season was gonna be for him anyway.

13:04 I was the guy sitting here in August telling you,

13:07 I don't really see where he plays.

13:09 But that was when everybody was healthy and

13:10 we thought there was a chance that they'd be competing for wild card spot.

13:13 At two and seven, without Kendrick Bourne, without Devante Parker,

13:17 this is your chance to develop him.

13:18 This is your chance to get him to the next level.

13:20 The only way he's, he might not be good enough right now.

13:23 I'm not ruling that out as a possibility.

13:26 But the only way he's gonna get better, or he can get better in practice, and

13:30 most teams don't have the luxury of, game reps are the real way to improve.

13:35 But if you're a contending team, you're not gonna put players out there and

13:38 develop them when you're trying to win games and chase a playoff spot.

13:41 It's no longer a problem for the Patriots.

13:43 They have a chance to develop him in game, valuable reps, and

13:48 they're not giving them to him.

13:49 So that either they're not, they don't correctly know how to develop wide

13:55 receivers, which is certainly a possibility given their history, or

13:59 something else is going on.

14:00 But either way, he's got a player, you gotta cut him.

14:03 You can't just keep, when they need roster spots,

14:05 you can't just keep sending this guy.

14:07 It doesn't make sense, it's just poor roster management.

14:11 >> Yeah, yeah, I mean, I remember he had those flash plays in training camp and

14:16 then the big touchdown in preseason against Green Bay.

14:18 But to your point where you just said he's behind Kendrick Bourne and

14:23 Juju's kinda in that role.

14:24 And even Mario Douglas, they were like, there's not snaps for him.

14:28 Might be a Foxborough flu or just he's there, but Juju isn't playing well.

14:33 Kendrick Bourne is on IR, the snaps are there for him now.

14:37 So just see what you have and just go from there.

14:41 So it's frustrating, this team just,

14:43 they can't figure out the wide receiver position.

14:46 They're throwing money at the wrong guys.

14:48 They're not playing the young guys except for Pop, who again,

14:52 I thought was good, but it's just a frustrating position for them.

14:57 >> Just to go back to Taekwon real quick, I wanna bring this up.

14:59 I'm curious your thoughts on this,

15:00 cuz I've seen this one a lot the last couple days.

15:02 Obviously, George Pickens drafted two picks after Taekwon.

15:05 So I've said, look, Pickens has been up and down.

15:11 Thornton hasn't even been up.

15:12 So I'm not saying that Thornton's better, but he has three catches for

15:17 21 yards the last two weeks that George Pickens does.

15:21 He had negative one yard last week.

15:23 He's completely losing it with the organization, the free me thing.

15:27 He's just storming off the field, things like that.

15:30 This is a guy that will probably be available.

15:32 Again, to me, the second guess with the pick is not Pickens over Taekwon,

15:37 cuz the Steelers are barely getting it out of Pickens.

15:40 And that's a team that knows how to develop receivers.

15:42 I don't think Pickens would be doing any better here than Taekwon is.

15:45 The second guess to me is take Christian Watson in the first round and

15:49 then get your guard later.

15:50 That being said, they may have another shot at Pickens here,

15:53 because it certainly seems like he's doing his best to shoot his way out of

15:56 Pittsburgh.

15:57 Would you have any interest this offseason?

15:59 >> What's the price looking like?

16:04 Like a pick swap?

16:06 >> Yeah, these disgruntled receivers usually go, let's call like a fourth,

16:09 fifth pick swap.

16:10 >> Maybe like the Devontae Parker trade, like a third for, what was it, a third?

16:14 >> Yeah, yeah, okay, we can call it that.

16:17 It was a third for Parker and a fifth.

16:19 Let's say that's the price.

16:20 >> All right.

16:22 >> You're getting him on his rookie contract for two more years.

16:25 >> I think it depends.

16:26 Like if Bill's here, I don't trust them to just draft or

16:30 bring in another young receiver and develop them, right?

16:32 Like I just don't see the point of that.

16:34 I'd rather just go to the draft and get a guy without these character concerns

16:39 on a fresh rookie deal or go, like if T Higgins, that's not the same level.

16:44 But just go pay a guy, an established veteran.

16:47 So, I mean, I like Pickens' skill set, but

16:49 I wouldn't trust this team to like bring in this disgruntled guy who hasn't

16:53 progressed and all of a sudden he's just blossoming and hitting his potential.

16:57 >> I think you nailed it.

16:57 This is a guy that clearly can't stay engaged with a lackluster offense.

17:01 And go let the Chiefs at him, go let the Chargers at him,

17:08 go let one of those teams, the Eagles, they might need a receiver,

17:11 as crazy as that sounds.

17:13 They're not gonna be able to figure out George Pickens.

17:16 They have too many other offensive questions to

17:21 answer before they get to George Pickens.

17:24 And just to be clear, I am not debating Thornton first Pickens.

17:28 I said Pickens is definitely better.

17:31 I've just seen that name come up a lot recently.

17:34 I just, he's probably gonna be available this off season.

17:37 It seems like it.

17:38 I'm sure people would love to know our opinion on should the Patriots be in on

17:41 him or not.

17:42 Adding him probably wouldn't be the,

17:44 it wouldn't be the worst move they can make, but they're gonna mess it up with him.

17:49 They just, they don't have it in place to make it work with a guy like that.

17:53 Like you said, established veterans and Pickens, I think,

17:56 especially a guy who's shown he'll be impatient with a quarterback who can't get

18:01 him the ball, right now I don't think the Patriots have the quarterback that will

18:04 satisfy what he's looking for.

18:06 So until you check that box, not the first guy I'd be going after.

18:10 >> Yeah, but speaking of that quarterback and offseason trades,

18:14 it came across, I think it was on Twitter last night,

18:19 the Sam Darnold trade a few years ago.

18:22 How did the Jets get a sixth and a second and a fourth for Sam Darnold,

18:27 who was in this exact point of his career as Mac Jones.

18:30 He was three years in, had to decide on the fifth year option and Carolina came in

18:35 and they gave him like a six round pick this year, then a future second and fourth.

18:39 And I looked up Mac and Darnold's comparisons and

18:43 Mac's 40 games in, Darnold played 38 his first three years.

18:48 Mac's won five more games, more passing yards per game.

18:53 He's got more touchdowns, less interceptions, better quarterback rating.

18:56 Do you think that could be a market for Mac?

19:00 How did the Jets get Carolina to swindle a future second round pick in that deal?

19:06 >> The Panthers very poorly run football team at the time.

19:09 Didn't they also give up a third for Baker Mayfield and

19:12 they were just like throwing everything they could at getting these.

19:16 >> Yeah. >> Washout quarterbacks, right?

19:17 >> They paid Teddy Bridgewater, then they traded Teddy Bridgewater,

19:21 they brought in Sam Darnold, and then they brought in Baker.

19:23 But like still a six, a second and a fourth for Darnold.

19:28 And you're talking Mac, I know Darnold has probably more of those physical tools,

19:33 but Mac's look better, I'd say, in a three year sample.

19:36 Again, I wouldn't say you get a second, but maybe you get early day three or

19:41 something like that.

19:43 >> No, I love to be the guy that's like, well,

19:45 this is the historical precedent, so this and this and this.

19:48 That's one where I just think a bad team made a bad decision.

19:52 That's like put up there with the Brock Osweiler getting traded with a second

19:55 round pick to eat his contract.

19:57 That wasn't something that was ever gonna be precedent.

19:59 That was a really bad team making a bad decision.

20:02 And everybody saw that and said, I know there's other traits like we bring up

20:05 from, what was the one last year I was talking?

20:08 Like Chase Claypool getting traded to the Bears for a second round pick.

20:12 That was never gonna be, if that was precedent,

20:15 you would have seen multiple receivers go for first round picks.

20:19 This deadline, right?

20:21 But you didn't because I think everybody just kind of looked at that and

20:24 said, this GM no longer has a job, bad GM, made a bad trade.

20:28 And we're just not gonna look at that.

20:30 And I think the Sam Darnold trade would likely fall under that category.

20:34 I don't think it's something the Patriots could go to.

20:36 It was also so long ago at this point.

20:38 And the balance of power of quarterbacks in the league has shifted.

20:44 I don't think the Patriots would be able to go to that and basically be like, well,

20:47 this is what the Jets got for Darnold.

20:48 So this is where we're starting.

20:49 I don't think you'd see that.

20:51 >> Yeah, that's fair, that's fair.

20:53 But back to the offense on Sunday, any other things with Mac or the receivers?

21:00 I thought Mondra for the second straight week finally started to look like

21:04 Mondra again, breaking tackles.

21:07 He obviously had that long touchdown run,

21:10 which I thought was finally like a great RPO design by O'Brien.

21:14 They have Gusicchi going that little route to pull his defender and

21:17 then it's blocked really well.

21:19 David Andrews, CitySouth, Jalen Rager even big block downfield.

21:23 So nice to see that develop, but

21:25 any other notes you had from the offensive side of the ball?

21:29 >> I sort of touched on it before.

21:30 I thought Conor McGray obviously won bad miss and if not for

21:34 a bad roughing the passer penalty, we probably look at that differently.

21:36 But I thought his body of work as a whole at left tackle, I was surprised.

21:42 I thought he held up well given he basically hasn't played the position in

21:44 two years.

21:45 So credit to him for that.

21:47 I thought the running backs ran well.

21:48 I thought it was interesting that Bill Belichick referred to Mike Gusicchi as

21:53 essentially the fourth receiver.

21:54 Cuz that's something we were talking about back in camp that they never actually did

21:58 until recently.

21:58 I think that's Bill covering his tracks a little bit.

22:01 It was interesting to hear him finally say that.

22:03 >> Yeah, they ran a lot of 12 personnel.

22:05 I think they were like 85% in that 12 personnel, which is technically,

22:09 I guess 11 if they're calling Gusicchi that fourth, fifth receiver.

22:14 Unfortunately, it didn't lead to any catches for Mike Gusicchi, but

22:19 that's how this season has gone for them.

22:22 Yeah, McDermott looked solid even though he was wearing the wrong pants the whole

22:26 game. I don't know if you saw that going around.

22:27 >> Yeah, wasn't he one of the guys that had the wrong number font earlier this

22:32 year too?

22:33 >> It was like those rookie pictures, like Bryce Berringer's seven.

22:37 >> Bryce Berringer had the wrong font, so they still got the materials for

22:41 the old uniforms lying around down there somewhere clearly.

22:44 >> Yeah, I don't know how they keep having a mistake like that every few weeks,

22:50 but that's something.

22:52 >> I mean, we could say that about all the mistakes.

22:54 >> Yeah, and we'll get into some of them, defensive special teams, absolutely.

23:00 But last thing, I thought Cole Strange, he obviously got pushed around by

23:05 Jonathan Allen a few times, but I thought he had a good game in City.

23:08 So continuing to strain some strong starts there at right guard,

23:14 so maybe your two guards for next year starting to form here.

23:18 >> I didn't think Cole Strange was great in this game.

23:21 >> Okay, why so?

23:23 >> There were a couple times, and look, Jonathan Allen's Jonathan Allen,

23:25 he's a great player, but- >> He definitely got pushed around a few

23:28 times, but I thought some of the mental stuff looked better.

23:32 >> I get, so maybe this is more like, if Cole Strange had been a third or

23:35 fourth round pick, I'd be like, he was fine.

23:38 You draft a guard in the first round and neutralize a guy like Jonathan Allen.

23:42 You're drafting that guy to be Quentin Nelson.

23:44 You're taking a guard in the first round, and he's just, it's still too hit and

23:50 miss, I still just think missing this summer was brutal for him.

23:53 I think he changed his body a little bit, and getting used to playing like that

23:58 would have been helpful, and he just never got a chance.

24:00 It is that to make an excuse, but yeah, I'm still not,

24:04 let's say there is a new GM next year, and all we talk about,

24:11 first round pick, this, that, whatever, nobody's safe.

24:15 New GM, you can be a first round pick, you can be a UDFA,

24:17 that thing's getting reevaluated from the top down.

24:19 If I'm a new GM coming in, is Cole Strange,

24:22 I'm probably leaning towards him being the starter, but that's hardly a guy I'd

24:25 look at and say, all right, we don't need to worry about left guard.

24:28 We have our guy there.

24:29 Yeah, I wouldn't quite go that far.

24:31 >> Yeah, so good test, another good test for him against Indy last week,

24:36 a few good defensive tackles, which I believe was the first time he got benched

24:39 in that stretch last year, so that'll be another good test from him.

24:43 But if that wraps up the offensive side of the ball, we can hear from our

24:48 wonderful, wonderful friends over at FanDuel, and

24:50 then get on to the rest of the game.

24:53 >> Yep.

24:53 Where'd it go?

24:55 There we go.

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25:33 [MUSIC]

25:38 >> All right, so defensively, as I said up top, I hate blaming the defense

25:43 because they get put in so many bad spots, and they only gave up 20 points,

25:48 which should win you a game.

25:51 But they're starting the trend in the down here the last few weeks, I think, too.

25:57 Another game that they weren't tackling well,

25:59 they had tons of blown coverages in the back end, six receptions of over 20 yards.

26:06 And they mismatch UDON really bad,

26:08 because they can't generate any pressure, like Sam Howell was extending plays

26:12 all afternoon, so it's kinda trending in the wrong direction.

26:16 It looks defensively for as tough as the spot they're in, again,

26:20 like missing UDON, missing Christian Gonzalez, too.

26:23 Not a lot of continuity in the secondary all year, but

26:26 kinda trending downwards, it seems for them.

26:29 >> Yeah, yeah, it certainly does, the tackling especially,

26:33 cuz prior to that Bills game,

26:36 they were top five in the league in most major tackling metrics.

26:39 So fewest missed tackles, missed tackle rate, PFF grade,

26:43 they were one of the best tackling teams in football through those first four weeks.

26:48 And that's not just losing UDON, UDON's making, what,

26:51 it's gotta be less than 10% of all attempted tackles, probably under that.

26:56 I don't know where it came from, I wonder if it's being two and five,

27:02 two and six, two and seven, and kinda just being done with it.

27:05 I wonder if guys are more banged up than we know.

27:08 I don't know what it is, but they are suddenly a very bad tackling team, and

27:12 they do not have, they barely have margin for error to begin with.

27:16 But if you're gonna start letting teams turn four yard gains and

27:18 eight yard gains, and eight yard gains, and 12 yard gains, and 12 yard gains on

27:22 third and 23 into 24 yard gains, which I wanna get back to that specific play in

27:26 a little bit, Brian, it's just gonna get worse.

27:30 It's gonna get worse and worse and worse.

27:32 And there's other issues with the defense.

27:34 I think another guy they're seriously missing is Devin McCourty.

27:37 And the questions, we didn't talk enough this offseason about,

27:41 I mean, not how little, they didn't.

27:43 They did not bring in a true free safety.

27:45 They met with Taylor Rapp, that was it.

27:47 I'm not saying Taylor Rapp would have replaced Devin McCourty or

27:50 any true free safety would have replaced Devin McCourty one for one.

27:53 But it would have helped, cuz you're now playing guys out of position, and

27:56 you're seeing the results of that.

27:58 So I think a lot of the issues the defense was able to mask early on because of guys

28:02 like Matthew Judon and guys like I'll even say Christian Gonzalez, you're starting

28:07 to see those issues sort of come through.

28:09 And then when you bench your top two corners or

28:11 two of your top three corners, that's not gonna help either.

28:14 You're gonna aggravate those guys.

28:16 And yeah, they played, but

28:18 clearly their headspace wasn't where it needed to be.

28:21 You have Jack Jones sulking on the bench early in the game,

28:24 leaves the facility for the media comes in.

28:27 JC Jackson didn't seem happy either.

28:30 I don't know what that was about.

28:32 I know there was a report that it was because of poor play, but

28:36 if they're now benching guys for poor play, so

28:39 first time they've done that this year.

28:42 >> You're not gonna be able to play anyone too going forward,

28:44 cuz everyone's- >> Right,

28:45 I don't know why does it start now?

28:46 Why does it start with these two?

28:48 Not that they both played poorly last week, but is there more to it than that?

28:54 I would guess yes, I don't know anything.

28:56 This is just me guessing, but that was weird.

29:00 >> Yeah, it wasn't pretty.

29:02 I thought they had two good defensive players yesterday.

29:05 There's two guys I wanna give credit,

29:06 cuz I actually thought not that they were just not bad, I thought they were good.

29:10 And that was the two defensive tackles.

29:12 Christian Barmore and Devon Godshaw both played a really high level of football

29:15 yesterday, deserve credit for that.

29:17 Especially Barmore, cuz this is now what, four games in a row,

29:20 five games in a row, he's been a beast.

29:22 Beyond the defensive tackles, they really didn't get much.

29:26 >> Yeah, no, Barmore was definitely their best.

29:30 Probably their best player in the game as he's been the last month, as you said.

29:34 PFF had him with a tiny career high in every game with seven pressures.

29:39 He had two more bad passes.

29:41 So he's just becoming a dominant kind of three down game record for them.

29:46 Godshaw too, I'll throw Tavai in that mix cuz he had the peanut punch.

29:51 And then he doesn't do many of the sexy things we keep saying, but

29:55 he's pretty consistent player.

29:57 >> Wasn't that his edge, the early touchdown run when they ran that stretch?

30:01 >> I thought that was Uche.

30:03 >> Okay, maybe it was Uche, I'm trying to remember now.

30:05 There was one stretch run they ran by him, but I'd even say on the punch,

30:08 not take anything away from him.

30:09 You watch Devon Godshaw holds him up.

30:11 >> Yeah. >> Tavai come in,

30:12 Godshaw made that play.

30:15 >> Good play, man.

30:16 >> Those two guys are good, and it's classic me, right?

30:18 I'm ripping on the defense, I still end up on a positive.

30:21 But they're having problems at so many levels right now on the defense, and

30:26 they seem to be growing.

30:27 They were good to start the year.

30:29 Injuries are certainly part of it, but

30:30 benching two corners has nothing to do with injury, right?

30:34 They knew Devin McCourty didn't get hurt, Devin McCourty retired.

30:37 They knew that was the guy they were gonna have for a play, and

30:39 they didn't replace him.

30:41 >> Yeah, so hit in some of those things you talked about, like McCourty,

30:45 they still miss him, tons of coverage, boss, six plays over 20 yards.

30:50 Evan was banging the drum on Twitter that they keep trying Marte Mapu

30:55 in that free safety role, even though he played pretty much all of his snaps in

31:00 college, in that second level, as that box safety, as that hybrid linebacker.

31:05 And that's what we all hoped that he would be here, but

31:08 he's obviously not going to do that cuz they're playing him at free safety, and

31:11 it's really not working.

31:12 He was part of that long Tyreek Hill touchdown last week,

31:16 was out of position on another long almost touchdown that

31:20 Jibril Peppers was luckily able to recover and kind of break up.

31:24 So that's not working, and you go back to their drafts and free agency,

31:29 and it's like they're not preparing to replace these guys,

31:32 which was always the thing with them.

31:34 Move on from a guy too early, or you draft, do it like Nate Solder, and

31:39 you have them there ready to take over your tackle spot.

31:42 And they're not doing that.

31:44 Back to that Christian Watson,

31:45 maybe you could have even said Dax Hill should have been the pick there.

31:48 Now he's your free safety here, ready to take the reins, and

31:52 they don't have that guy.

31:53 And I don't know if they thought drafting Marte Mapu,

31:57 he's just gonna be a free safety, but that would make that pick even more

32:01 questionable, why not just draft an actual free safety?

32:04 There was the Illinois guy, Martin, who- >> Joe Tavis Martin, yeah.

32:10 >> Who had the interception on Washington, right?

32:12 And that's the guy who played under one of Bill's friends at Breppalima,

32:15 at Illinois.

32:16 So just go draft a free safety in that instance, but that's frustrating.

32:21 The corners, as you talked about, weird how they start on the bench.

32:27 They were part of coverage bus last week, but you're two and seven.

32:31 You can't be benching guys for that performance.

32:35 And then the tackling, the third and 24, 23 was just the highlight of that.

32:42 Adrian Phillips and Jalen Mills just bounce off of Sam Howell.

32:45 And they're lucky he didn't come back to bite him,

32:47 because Howell threw one of the wildest interceptions I've ever seen.

32:51 >> So, okay. >> That was horrible, but-

32:54 >> I need to talk about that whole sequence.

32:55 I'm sorry, Brian, but that might- >> No, I was teeing you up for that.

32:58 Go for it.

32:59 >> That might have been the worst sequence, both teams, both teams.

33:03 That might have been the worst sequence of football I've ever seen.

33:06 Third and 23, third and 23, quarter of the field.

33:14 They had him dead to rights twice, twice, and they blew the tackles.

33:20 No reason for that, none.

33:22 It's Sam Howell, it's not Lamar Jackson, it's not Mike Vick.

33:25 No reason for that.

33:27 So they give the commanders a gift there late in half.

33:30 What do the commanders do with it?

33:32 They look like they're gonna score.

33:33 They look like they're gonna take advantage.

33:34 He hits Damian Brown down there at the five yard line, inbounds.

33:37 And I think that was Miles Bryant.

33:39 That was a good tackle.

33:40 Give him credit for that.

33:40 Good tackle to keep him inbounds.

33:41 42 seconds left.

33:44 All three timeouts, first and goal from the five.

33:48 Not only do they not call the timeout, the commanders, they didn't hurry up.

33:54 They take their sweet ass time to get into the line of scrimmage.

33:57 That was 23 seconds.

33:58 You could have called that timeout 42 seconds, two timeouts,

34:01 first and goal from the five.

34:03 Everything's an option.

34:04 Everything's an option.

34:05 All right, now you've let it run down to 23 seconds, but

34:08 I guess you still have all three timeouts.

34:10 Okay, you can probably run four plays in 23 seconds if they're quick.

34:14 There's miscommunication.

34:15 Sam Howell just boots straight right.

34:18 Nobody's open.

34:19 Throw the ball away, Sam.

34:20 You still have three plays.

34:21 I know you don't have a full 40 seconds cuz he didn't call a timeout.

34:24 You have 23 seconds, but you can still make something happen.

34:26 Instead, he throws it right to Kyle Tugger.

34:28 I mean, what the hell was that?

34:30 It was just an affront to everything.

34:32 And the one defense I've heard for why they let the clock run down was, well,

34:35 they didn't wanna give the Patriots the ball back with too much time after they

34:38 scored.

34:39 Why?

34:39 >> You're scared?

34:42 >> Right, what's Matt Jones gonna do with 38 seconds?

34:46 It was just a disastrous stretch of football.

34:49 And that was, look, I don't remember I said this on this show.

34:51 I said it on a show going into the game.

34:53 I always felt like that was gonna be a good game because it's between two

34:56 relatively evenly matched teams.

34:57 And that's more or less what you saw.

35:00 But that was a reminder that these teams are kind of in the same place,

35:05 that there's a reason these two teams, maybe Washington's a little bit of

35:08 a dark horse right now for wild card spot.

35:10 But these are two teams that are not going to the playoffs and

35:12 that sequence is why.

35:14 Those are two teams that do not know how to win games or

35:16 not ready to win games because third and 23.

35:20 I gotta look it up now.

35:22 I gotta look up the last time a third and 23 was given up on a run play.

35:26 >> Well, man.

35:28 >> Check that.

35:29 And then again, you don't call timeout.

35:32 You don't throw that ball away.

35:34 [SOUND]

35:37 I hate those just like from a football perspective,

35:40 those speed out plays where the quarterback like runs out to one side,

35:46 like right off the snap and just cut half the field apart.

35:50 I just don't really like those plays.

35:51 But I mean, if you're gonna do it, at least they did it on like first down when

35:55 you could just throw it away and still have two or three downs.

35:58 But Sam how does whatever Sam out there that was just bad football there.

36:03 But yeah, bad football, bad teams might be needing some new jobs.

36:10 And speaking of new jobs, we have to hear also from our friends at LinkedIn

36:16 this week so we could do that very quickly before we wrap this up.

36:21 >> These days every new potential hire can feel like a high stakes wager for

36:25 your small business.

36:26 You want to be 100% certain you have the access to the best qualified candidates

36:29 available.

36:30 That's why you have to check out LinkedIn jobs.

36:32 LinkedIn jobs helps you find the right people for your team faster and for free.

36:37 Super easy to use.

36:38 You just get on there, fill out the form.

36:40 They're gonna get you in touch with the best candidates for your job opening.

36:44 You just add that purple hashtag hiring frame to your LinkedIn profile to spread

36:48 the word that you're hiring.

36:49 Simple tools like screening questions make it easy to focus on candidates with just

36:53 the right skills and experience.

36:54 So you can quickly prioritize who you'd like to interview and hire.

36:58 Adding the right person to your team, we just talked about, right?

37:00 Democordy left, Patriots did not add the right person to the team and

37:03 you see the trickle down effect.

37:05 Adding the right person to your team can have such a positive,

37:07 measurable positive impact on your business.

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37:21 Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com/beat.

37:23 That's LinkedIn.com/beat, B-E-A-T, to post your job for

37:28 free terms and conditions apply.

37:31 All right, Brian, I found this.

37:33 The list, there have been 126, third and 23s or

37:40 longer that were converted to first downs since 1994.

37:45 I don't know how many were via penalty.

37:51 And I'm trying to find the rushing ones.

37:56 All right, stall for a second.

37:57 I actually wanna find the stall for a second.

37:58 >> All right, well, the last thing I wanna talk about was special teams.

38:03 Because we all know the New England Patriots love their special teams.

38:07 We know Alex and I love our special teams.

38:09 But this is a team that has three special teams only coaches.

38:14 They pour a ton of resources into special teams.

38:16 And they had three really bad penalties at the end of the game there.

38:22 And you can argue, they never showed a good replay of Mac Wilson,

38:27 like right down the sideline if he was actually off sides.

38:30 I know Bill said this morning it didn't look like it.

38:33 They were very angry at that.

38:35 I know he flinched, but it never really looked like he was in the neutral zone.

38:37 And then Brendan Schooler got called for a hold, kind of a bad flop, bad call.

38:44 But they're putting themselves in these situations that

38:47 the refs can throw the flags.

38:49 And it's hurting them.

38:51 That last drive, they have to start their, first they give the ball back to

38:55 the commanders to milk more time off the clock.

38:57 And then they finally get the ball back.

38:59 And there's a holding penalty, which was Schooler's second of the game.

39:02 So they're starting their game winning drive at the nine yard line.

39:05 And special teams is supposed to be a strength of this team.

39:08 And it just hasn't for the last few years.

39:10 And it's actually hurting them in some ways.

39:13 So it's like the little things that they used to do so well,

39:17 especially in that part of the game, they're just not doing them well.

39:20 And the penalties were killers in that section.

39:24 And a key moment of the game too, and that just can't happen going forward.

39:29 >> All right, real quick before I touch on the penalty.

39:32 So there have been 15 third and 23 longers that were converted since 1994.

39:37 Of those, a handful were quarterback scrambles, they weren't design runs.

39:41 Tim Tebow, Donovan McNabb have some of those, Tyrod Taylor.

39:45 There were also one, two, three, four.

39:47 So of those 15, four, five, six, seven, eight were converted due to penalty.

39:55 So eight of 15, so that leaves you with seven, seven such plays.

40:00 The most recent one, 2020, Jerick McKinnon for the 49ers against the Jets.

40:05 Before that, you gotta go back to 2010 and Tim Tebow.

40:08 Before that, Donovan McNabb in 2009.

40:12 >> So there's been two in the last 12 years.

40:16 >> Right, before that, some guy I've never even heard of in 1999,

40:20 Leroy Horde, and then Marshall Falk had a couple.

40:22 Anyway, yeah, special teams is bad.

40:27 The special teams was not good.

40:29 Costly mistakes to Mario Douglas needs to start getting upfield on punt returns.

40:32 That's one.

40:33 >> 36 yard kick return to start the game too.

40:37 >> 36 yard kick return to start the game.

40:39 I mean, the penalties are just in those spots.

40:41 And the Mac Wilson, I haven't seen definitive angle one where the other

40:46 shouldn't be close enough that they have a chance to make that call.

40:47 >> Exactly. >> It shouldn't be close enough.

40:49 That's the reality of it.

40:51 And then the Brennan Schooler penalty was bad too in that situation.

40:54 You're just setting the offense up with longer fields.

40:56 It's a team that puts a lot into special teams.

40:58 They got punished in the off season for having too many special teams meetings.

41:01 They need to be better on special teams.

41:03 >> Yep.

41:04 I will say Chad Ryan has made his last six kicks.

41:07 I don't hear many of the Nick Fulk truthers out there yet.

41:10 I won't take my victory lap yet, but it's coming.

41:14 I know it's unpopular, and I'm sure I'll get accused of defending Bill for

41:20 this even though I'm talking about who the next guy should be already.

41:23 But it was the right move to move on from Nick Fulk.

41:26 He was a 37 year old doing a bad second half of the season last year.

41:29 The timing was right.

41:30 Now if you wanna say they didn't need to use a fourth round pick to get his

41:33 replacement, that is a separate argument.

41:36 And that is certainly an argument that can be had.

41:38 I know you love Chad Ryland Brown.

41:39 I know you're a big fan, but could they have gotten a kicker with less premium

41:43 pick and maybe use that pick on a guy like DeJuan Jones?

41:46 There is an argument to be made there.

41:47 But I do think the timing was right to move on from Nick Fulk.

41:50 The fact he's still automatic in Tennessee, it's a risk.

41:53 That's what happens.

41:54 I still think they made the right decision.

41:56 It's an upset.

41:58 It's the lesser probability that he's this good in Tennessee.

42:03 It's just credit to Nick Fulk for

42:05 figuring out whatever was plaguing him last year.

42:07 >> Yep, absolutely.

42:10 Any last thoughts on the game, anything going forward?

42:15 I know it's five o'clock here.

42:17 We have some player availabilities, but

42:19 any last thoughts quick from you from what you saw on Sunday?

42:22 >> No, I think that's pretty much it.

42:25 We'll see what happens in Germany next week.

42:27 And then next week, I know Mike Reese reported today that he, or he didn't

42:30 report, but he said he'd be surprised if the Patriots made an in-season coaching

42:34 move.

42:36 The more I think about it, I would be as well for this.

42:40 Not that I would, all right, I guess, I'm still trying to work on how I want to

42:44 format this take, but I'll give it to you in progress.

42:46 If you're somebody who believes the Bill Belichick trade talk,

42:50 I'm not entirely sure I believe it from the Patriots side.

42:52 I believe there are other teams that want to trade for him.

42:55 I don't know if Kraft would really do it.

42:57 If he is considering it, he can't fire Bill.

43:01 Because once you fire him, he can't trade him.

43:03 He has to be under contract.

43:05 So does Belichick's trade value essentially save his job for

43:10 the rest of the year?

43:11 It's maybe we're getting into semantics on that, but

43:14 next week, next week's going to be as much as we've kind of danced around it and

43:20 joked about it, like the bi-week is when teams usually make this move.

43:24 And then two weeks after that, they'll have a long gap between Thursday night

43:29 football against the Steelers and Monday night football against the Chiefs.

43:32 That'd be the other window.

43:33 Coincidentally, Army, Navy takes place in that window.

43:36 So, but yeah, it'll be interesting to see what happens next week in Germany.

43:41 >> Yep, could be a big one in Germany.

43:43 Pats go out there Thursday to take on the Indianapolis Colts.

43:47 Alex and I will preview that one right here on Thursday.

43:51 Talk to him college football, of course, as always, look ahead to the draft.

43:54 Does the Patriots still have the fifth pick at two and seven?

43:58 But until then, you can follow Alex on Twitter @realalexbarth.

44:02 Go read all his coverage from yesterday's game at 985esportshub.com.

44:06 And you can follow me on Twitter @imbryanhines and

44:09 go read all my coverage from yesterday's loss at patspulpit.com.

44:13 Thank you all as always for tuning in and we will see you guys later this week.

44:18 >> Bye.

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