Hilarie Burton Morgan GUSHES Over ‘Muses’ Sophia Bush and Jeffrey Dean Morgan (E(1)
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00:00 My favorite chapter was titled "Find Your Muse."
00:04 And I love how empowering this phrase is.
00:06 You urge your readers to become your own damn muse.
00:09 - Right?
00:09 - Why not?
00:10 - Yeah.
00:11 There was a time in the early 2000s where,
00:14 I mean, I was hanging out with a lot of musicians.
00:16 - Sure were, yes.
00:17 - And I was like, oh my God,
00:17 are they gonna write a song about me?
00:19 You know, then it occurred to me
00:20 that I didn't need someone else to validate me
00:23 by making a piece of art about me,
00:25 that I could focus on the things that I liked about me.
00:28 Because we were surrounded by so much toxicity.
00:31 And so when you have this center
00:34 where you know who you are
00:35 and you know what you like about yourself,
00:36 you become unshakeable.
00:38 And so I wanna encourage everyone
00:39 to write love poems to themselves
00:41 and songs about yourself.
00:43 And that way you don't need
00:44 like a homeless musician boyfriend.
00:46 - Put that on a bumper sticker.
00:49 - You just don't need it.
00:50 Tell all the young girls out there,
00:52 be your own muse, leave the musicians.
00:53 - Be your own muse.
00:54 - Yes.
00:55 Okay, so I love that you are your own muse,
00:57 but you do give a lot of credit to people
00:59 that you consider muses in your life.
01:01 So you mentioned your amazing husband,
01:04 Jeffrey Dean Morgan, you call him your work muse.
01:07 You just celebrated your four year wedding anniversary.
01:11 Congratulations.
01:12 - Thanks.
01:12 - What is it about this man
01:14 that really lights your soul on fire?
01:16 - He's morally sound, you know?
01:18 Even when we're mad at each other
01:20 for not washing the dishes
01:21 and like piddly things that people get frustrated with,
01:24 Jeffrey respects me so much.
01:27 And that's so important for my kids to see.
01:29 He treats this as real work.
01:32 I've met a number of writers who were like,
01:34 my partner doesn't think me sitting at the kitchen table
01:36 scribbling in a notebook is real work.
01:38 And he has always treated my work as real work.
01:41 And that feels very nice to be supported in that way.
01:45 And he's obviously let me try
01:46 on lots of different versions of myself.
01:48 And I hope that I've allowed him to do the same thing.
01:52 - It seems like he's loved every version of Hillary.
01:54 - Yeah, I mean, there are some he likes
01:55 better than others, for sure.
01:57 - Which one's his favorite and which one's his least?
01:58 - Yeah, he's super into like "Witch Wife" right now.
02:00 - Yes, 'tis the season.
02:02 - He likes this phase.
02:04 I think because when you arrive at this age
02:06 and you get to a point where you're sure of yourself,
02:09 there's a lot of that anxiety that disappears.
02:12 And so he was with me through very anxious phases.
02:15 You know, he's with me through Me Too movement.
02:17 He was with me through career changes,
02:19 through moves across the country.
02:20 And so he has seen me at my best and my worst.
02:23 And he really likes this phase.
02:25 - I love it.
02:26 I can see the light in your eyes.
02:28 How did saying goodbye to Los Angeles
02:30 and hello to a quieter life on a New York farm,
02:34 how did that bolster the bond that the two of you share?
02:38 - Well, I think doing tangible work is really important.
02:40 Like we work in a world of fairy tale, right?
02:43 Where we wear clothes that other people give us
02:45 and we say words that other people give us.
02:47 - Make believe, all make believe.
02:48 - Yeah, it's all just kind of pretend.
02:49 And you go home sometimes at the end of the day
02:51 and you're like, "What did I even do today?"
02:53 And so by moving to the farm,
02:55 we were able to do tangible projects.
02:57 I renovated everything.
02:59 He chopped a lot of wood.
03:01 - All your hands.
03:02 - Yeah, all our hands.
03:03 And so at the end of the day,
03:04 we were tired and we were sore,
03:05 but we had something to show for it.
03:07 And I think we both really liked surprising each other
03:09 with the skill sets that we didn't know the other person had.
03:12 - Wow.
03:13 What surprised you about Jeffrey?
03:15 - He's really good with like machinery and cars.
03:17 He's building a car with my son right now.
03:19 - Oh my gosh.
03:20 - And I was like, "Okay."
03:21 - That's not fair to be such a brilliant actor
03:23 and to also have the other side of your brain be-
03:25 - And he's very good looking.
03:26 - Yeah, I mean- - That doesn't hurt.
03:28 - Your activism muse is Sophia Bush.
03:31 Your longtime friend, your ride or die.
03:34 It's so refreshing as a fan
03:36 to see that the two of you are truly soul sisters.
03:39 What is it, one, two decades later?
03:42 - Yeah, more than two now.
03:43 - More than two decades.
03:44 So in a sea of fair weather friends,
03:46 what is it like to have a Sophia Bush in your corner?
03:49 - Yeah, I mean, we are born the same week.
03:51 I'm July 1st and she's July 8th.
03:54 And when we first met, we were so similar.
03:56 - Cancers. - It was like magnets.
03:57 You know?
03:58 And people were trying to force us into the same box.
04:03 They were like, "You're both the ingenue."
04:05 Except we weren't, you know?
04:06 I really like behind the camera producing.
04:09 She really loves activism.
04:11 And we were both being shoved in a direction
04:13 neither one of us really wanted to go.
04:15 And so as adults, being able to not only do
04:18 what we actually wanna do, but empower each other
04:20 is so important.
04:22 And she was the first person I knew
04:23 that was really getting politically engaged
04:26 and getting involved in activism.
04:27 And she's just not afraid to throw herself
04:30 in front of the line of fire.
04:32 She's done it for me so many times.
04:33 And so I wanna protect her at all costs.
04:35 - How so?
04:36 So I've had, you know, like internet scuffles.
04:39 It happens. - Yeah.
04:40 Everybody's had an internet scuffle or two.
04:42 And Sophia is the first person that will rush in.
04:45 And that is why my husband loves her so much.
04:48 Because he's like, you know, other than me,
04:51 the person who comes to your defense
04:53 and the person who will fight for your honor is Sophia.
04:56 And so I love that she's unafraid.
04:59 And sometimes with people who are so strong and unafraid,
05:03 they hide their soft inside.
05:05 And so it's my job as her best friend
05:07 to protect her as well.
05:09 Because she really is the most wonderful human.
05:12 And yeah, we'll still be working together
05:14 when we're in our 80s.
05:15 - I sure hope so.
05:16 - Yeah, that's the game plan.
05:17 - I sure hope you're still working together,
05:18 podcasting together, you know, giving us, you know,
05:21 - Right now we're like looking at books.
05:23 We're like, what do we want?
05:24 - Oh, okay.
05:24 So you're marinating on what you wanna do next.
05:26 As long as you're together.
05:27 - She and I are together forever, man.
05:30 - You know, and I love that the bond is very much both ways.
05:33 And we're so happy for her.
05:34 I know that she's in a really great phase of life right now,
05:37 starting a new chapter.
05:38 What is it like to see someone as write or die as Sophia
05:42 in such a great space?
05:44 - I think being able to celebrate every chapter
05:46 of a loved one's life is so important.
05:48 And that even means like the chapters that are awkward
05:51 or the chapters that maybe didn't work in the past.
05:53 And so being able, we were together last night
05:55 and being able just to be together and hold each other
05:58 and be like, whatever is coming next, like I'm here for it.
06:02 And that's exciting.
06:04 'Cause she's held me in some dark chapters.
06:06 And so for her, I wanna celebrate the wins.
06:09 And I wanna, again, like protect her at all costs.
06:12 That's a good woman.
06:14 - I understand your son is a little journalist in training,
06:17 maybe a future Entertainment Tonight correspondent.
06:20 - So he has this idea of what hosting is.
06:24 And he certainly doesn't shy away
06:26 from opportunities to do that.
06:28 But he's on his school newspaper team, team, squad, staff.
06:33 And he is so serious about it
06:36 and really is like writing hard hitting essays about-
06:39 - Go Gus.
06:40 - About furries because there was some discrimination
06:44 against like people that like to dress up as animals.
06:47 That was a big thing in the middle school.
06:49 - So Gus is a man who supports the furries.
06:51 - He's a man who supports inclusion.
06:53 - Oh, love it.
06:55 Yeah, diversity, inclusion, all things.
06:56 - We are not gonna discriminate against anybody
06:59 that wants to wear ears or a tail to school.
07:01 - Wow.
07:02 - Yeah, those kinds of-
07:02 - I love it.
07:03 That's what you guys are teaching him at home.
07:05 That's so important.
07:05 - Well, they're junior versions of very real issues
07:08 that we deal with in the real world.
07:10 And so he's getting to practice that
07:11 in a really safe setting and we're proud of him.
07:14 He just got cast as the lead in our town play.
07:16 - Go, look at Gus racking up the credits.
07:20 - Yeah, and I like that it's initiated by him.
07:24 I never wanted to force him into anything,
07:26 but he is a force and he's bigger than I am now
07:28 and he shapes.
07:29 - Oh my gosh, well, he's 13, right?
07:32 Wow, so you've got a teenager at home.
07:33 - He's a handsome, cool dude, you know?
07:35 He's turning more and more into his dad every day,
07:38 which I love.
07:38 - And your daughter, little cutie.
07:40 - George, yeah.
07:41 - George, is she following in the family business?
07:44 - George right now is, she is loving kindergarten
07:48 because it means that she went from a very small
07:50 little preschool to a much larger situation.
07:53 And she's like, "I have so many friends."
07:56 And so I love seeing how social she is,
07:58 especially 'cause these are kids of the pandemic
08:00 and they miss those formative years of getting to know
08:03 like other kids.
08:04 And so to see how outgoing she is
08:06 and how inclusive she is with other kids is exciting.
08:10 But yeah, she sees me doing PTA
08:12 and just like talking to the other moms at school
08:14 and she mimics it with her classmates now.
08:17 And she's like, "We can't leave
08:18 "until I hug everyone goodbye."
08:20 - So she's picking up on the subtle nuances.
08:22 - Dude, yeah.
08:23 - Okay, so future performer?
08:26 - Probably. - Probably.
08:27 - I mean, but no, she says she's going to be a vet.
08:29 - Okay, good.
08:30 - But also, she really likes to cry on cue.
08:33 - Your next muse that you talk about is Julie Rudd.
08:36 - Yes! - She's your parenting muse.
08:38 I think there's a lot of people who are very fascinated
08:40 by this idea that you and your husband co-own
08:44 this really sweet, quaint shop
08:47 that sells coffee and chocolate.
08:49 What is it like being in business with the Rudds?
08:52 - We were just dinner buddies
08:53 and we'd go to dinner every Sunday and it was so nice
08:55 and our kids all played together and it was lovely.
08:57 And when our local candy store,
09:00 our dear friend was the owner of it,
09:02 he passed away very suddenly
09:04 and we didn't want to see it turned into a chain restaurant
09:06 or like a bike shop or, you know?
09:08 - No, no, preserve what we still got.
09:11 - Yeah! - Come on.
09:11 - And so going into business with them
09:13 has been really lovely and Julie brings
09:15 all of that maternal energy that she has for her children
09:18 to the shop and is so loving in the way
09:21 that she manages the shop with us.
09:23 And so I look to her as a parenting muse
09:25 because until I met her, I was the only person I knew
09:28 whose husband would just go away for months at a time
09:31 for work. - Yeah, she can understand that.
09:32 - And I didn't know what to do, I didn't have a model for it.
09:35 - Oh, how do you make that work when you're like,
09:38 see, in six months.
09:39 - Like sexy texts.
09:41 - Oh, good for you, keep that flame alive.
09:43 - I know, we're flirty.
09:44 - Yeah, you gotta keep that spark alive, it's important.
09:48 - I'm not embarrassed.
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