- 3 years ago
Damian Lillard has been traded to the Milwaukee Bucks as part of a 3-team deal with Jrue Holiday, Deandre Ayton, Toumani Camara, a 2029 unprotected MIL 1st, and unprotected MIL swap rights in 2028 and 2030 to Blazers. Phoenix lands Jusuf Nurkic, Grayson Allen, Nassir Little and Keon Johnson. The Garden Report goes LIVE to react.
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00:00 Garden report here
00:02 with John Xanis and
00:04 CLNS Celtics beat reporter Bobby Manning
00:07 And the news Bobby it happened
00:10 Damon Lillard has been
00:13 Traded not to the Miami Heat not to the Toronto Raptors
00:17 the Milwaukee freaking bucks and
00:21 We have not had much time to talk about it other than a few texts on our on our garden report thread
00:29 And our main reaction was just whoa
00:32 So that happened so I'll just get your I'll just get your initial take here as you're kind of digesting the news
00:39 Yeah, not stunned definitely surprising here
00:44 But you did see something like this developing over the last few weeks here where Miami Portland
00:49 With someone other than the Heat
00:52 Sure, but the Fox is bad, it's bad Celtics
00:58 Yeah, and yeah, I guess you should be scared. Yeah
01:02 Yeah
01:02 I mean
01:03 Giannis a very smart superstar applying the pressure about a month ago with that New York Times interview a couple
01:09 podcasts where he hinted at leaving Milwaukee and
01:13 Obviously that puts the Bucks front office into overdrive leads them to pull off a very creative trade here
01:19 I like this for Portland - there's a good trade for the Bucks. Obviously, they upgrade a point guard here
01:26 Don't send out too much depth beyond it. He loses starter in great St. Alan, but Bobby Porter's can step right into that spot. So
01:33 what I think they did here is close the gap with the Celtics because you look I
01:38 Said it last night the Celtics with full health now as reported last night and did this season as prohibited favorites?
01:45 Well, no, no
01:47 They were now they're co-favorites. I think they were prohibitive. They were slight favorites. And now I think that that's flipped
01:53 I'll be I'll be stunned if when the odds makers get their hands on I do have I do have fan duels
01:59 What a fan will have okay, they have the Bucks as championship favorites at plus 430 or 360 rather
02:07 Nuggets move up past the Celtics obviously with the East shift there the 430 and then the Celtics followed a third at 480
02:15 So you have it no long it's it's a tough one and we might as well tell you about fan duel
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02:39 So I guess that's kind of it. It's it's that's the question. Everyone's gonna ask is
02:44 What does this do for the Celtics standing in the in the in the thing and we'll talk about that
02:50 We'll wait for more people to kind of filter in again a surprise garden report not much promotion unscheduled
02:56 and
02:57 we can tweet it out again Ahmed our
03:00 Fantastic producer whip this up for us real quick so we can get on here and just start talking about it
03:06 And then we want to hear your reaction as well what this does for the Celtics chances
03:09 Are they clearly behind the Bucks can they make a move of their own now? I floated this
03:16 without any
03:18 Real insight into whether or not it's even feasible
03:21 But something involving Malcolm Broglin Brogdon and draft picks in order to pry drew holiday away from Portland because I don't think Portland necessarily
03:29 needs or wants
03:31 veterans right now
03:32 So just something to think about something to talk about. Here's what the trade looks like
03:36 Blazers receive holiday and
03:40 Aten
03:41 Okay, both trade candidates wouldn't you think or maybe they're gonna retool and they they're not tanking completely
03:47 They've got you know, you know, maybe they'll just go, you know, I don't know what they're gonna do here. We'll see
03:52 in addition to
03:55 2029 first-round pick from Milwaukee and and to pick swaps
03:58 and then the Suns get Nurgut Grace and Alan Nasir little so the Suns just
04:04 Got rid of a yeah
04:07 They I mean at a low depth and the Suns had to they were in a position after doing what they did
04:13 With Durant that they had no choice but to kind of move on so but we're not here
04:18 This isn't the Suns report or the Bucks report
04:20 This is the garden report and really all that matters here from a Celtics perspective is what this does in the east here
04:27 You know, I saw somebody put in the chat already Bobby and I'll throw it out there. Yeah, it sounds scary
04:33 Giannis and Dame and Middleton. That's assuming Middleton is Middleton. Um
04:40 This might be a big two and a half rather than a true big three and I'm not gonna lie
04:45 And someone put this in the chat. I think I agree Miami's big three might have been
04:49 overall better than
04:52 Gary after the Celtics then
04:54 The Miami big three would have been worse
04:57 So as bad as this sounds because it's the Bucks and you recognize that this is the team that you've been competing with for the top
05:03 Seed, you know back and forth over the last couple of years
05:06 And they seem like your main competition reality is Miami's your main competition if Miami had a day
05:12 I think they would have been in much worse shape
05:13 That's why I say Milwaukee closed the gap with the Celtics here
05:16 You look at the way these two teams played each other last year and obviously they didn't get to meet in the playoffs
05:21 The Celtics kind of throttled them
05:23 You remember that 40-point win in March the game where the Celtics brought up Howser and Mascala and all of them and almost won
05:30 They dominated this team a year ago
05:33 So the Bucks had to do something to close the gap here, especially after the Celtics added poor Zingas
05:37 And if all goes well there you have to think that's gonna help Boston get even better. So
05:42 Miami was the team you feared having beat you last year having dominated you going back three seasons now adding
05:49 Marquis peace and lowered who along with their system would have put Miami on par with Boston talent wise
05:56 Maybe not depth wise but with that top-end talent you would have been looking at another even series now
06:01 Depending on what the heat do here and we can talk about them in the holiday race too. Once we get to that
06:06 You have to think the heater in a tough spot
06:09 Even with what they've pulled off the last couple years sneaking in the playoffs last year going through the play and getting to these finals
06:16 Unlikely losing two more
06:18 Rotation guys like they did this summer not really adding much. This is a massive loss for them
06:23 And yeah, as you said John you worry about the Bucks more. I always respect the honest even after what we watched last year
06:30 I'm gonna give them the utmost respect and name them right there with Boston and 90s hierarchy now
06:36 but
06:38 You'd much rather see what go here. Yes. So here's the thing
06:41 Here's what people aren't factoring in if he was going to Miami
06:45 He was going to Miami for nothing Miami was going to miss not not not really
06:49 He's gone to the Bucks for something the Bucks are going to miss but your your I'm not comparing players
06:54 Dame is Dame and Jeru is Jeru Jeru still a top 25 player and one of the best defenders in all of basketball
07:01 and
07:02 absolutely
07:03 Still extremely capable the Heat were gonna give up hero and they would have been absolutely fine doing that
07:08 But they weren't gonna mess with their core the Bucks moved part of their big three to become a bigger three
07:13 And yes, it makes them better
07:15 But they gave up something Miami in the scenario that we saw was gonna give up nothing other than a bunch of firsts
07:21 But in the moment in the here and the now they were gonna be tougher
07:24 So I get it and again from the Bucks perspective
07:28 I'm a surprise they got off this cheap. I think you had Milwaukee over a barrel
07:32 They had to make a move because as you said Janice kind of chirps like we got to do something
07:36 Everything Milwaukee had wasn't it? I mean you could just more firsts. I mean, you know, this is all the first they had
07:42 Remember they traded all the other holiday. Yeah. Yeah, they're out
07:45 They're out. So this is what they had
07:48 You couldn't go further in the future they don't have like 31 32 no, you can only go seven years
07:56 So that's right. So they were maxed out. That's right. That's right because the holiday was three and two
08:00 Yeah, so that is crazy. That's and they create all their seconds for Jay Crowder
08:06 These teams acting like me John them and the Suns give us six first give everything you want
08:14 But when your star is saying he's gonna leave you have no choice
08:19 Especially if you're Milwaukee and you're not gonna see another Janice in your lifetime
08:23 Probably they had to do this and there's some flaws to going in this direction
08:27 But the fact that Lillard obviously was willing to team up with the honest that he gives them something
08:33 They didn't have offensively in terms of above the rim or above the break threat
08:37 They're pulling up from three it made a lot of sense for them holidays up for a massive new contract next year
08:43 Which we got to consider if we're gonna kick around him for the Celtics here
08:46 So they had to address that as well and those picks in the future. You weren't gonna get you honest there
08:51 So they had to do this. They weren't gonna be looking very good
08:54 But the storyline is recently as last night John and I tweeted it
08:58 The Bucks didn't do much this summer before this. They didn't add much
09:02 they really didn't address many needs and
09:05 Given that other teams around the east got better
09:08 It was gonna be hard to come up with a scenario where they were gonna be playing in the finals this year
09:13 Unless Janice just through sure sheer will got them there now
09:18 You're looking at a piece that makes them a lot more compelling here and the thing that they lacked at the end of the day
09:24 You know
09:25 Even the year the Milwaukee won the title your go-to guy late in games was more Middleton because he's the one who could you know?
09:31 Score from you know multiple places on his own. Yeah Middleton kind of going backwards
09:37 You didn't really have that guy you had Jeru who's hot and cold
09:39 But not necessarily an efficient scorer and Janice who is limited and what he can do. We can play the bully ball
09:45 He can get to the line, but he's not gonna pull up hit jumpers hit threes
09:48 Do and you can really load up on him and you could load up so he was struggling late in games
09:53 You saw you know, I mean in that's Miami series. He's turning the ball over. He's forcing. He's trying to make things happen
09:58 That's not the case with Lillard the ball the ball goes to Lillard in those situations now
10:03 And that's just what he does and he's just an unguardable guy. He really is. It doesn't really matter what you throw at him
10:09 He's a guy. He's a contested shot guy. He's gonna be hitting threes from 40 feet away
10:13 Um, so it is a scary compliment to you know, you can't load up on Giannis
10:18 You know, you gotta always be mindful of you know of what else is there if Middleton regains his form even if not fully
10:23 But he's just a consistent knockdown shooter in a third option
10:27 It's definitely definitely an improved team and a team that makes more sense that being said
10:32 I don't know how this team defends you if you're the Boston Celtics and you have to factor that in
10:37 I don't want to play the green team or card here, right?
10:40 And it's where I feel - you have to look at both sides of it like yeah, that's great. Who's playing defense?
10:45 Yeah, you know and obviously Giannis is great, but it's like who's guarding the Jays here
10:50 It's gonna be interesting because they really struggled to do it a year ago
10:54 obviously in those blowout losses the Celtics could just pull up from three and kind of get what they wanted on the perimeter and you
11:00 Know the Bucks are gonna box off the post
11:02 It'll be interesting to see if they switch more this year with the new coach
11:05 Obviously, they're a team that would just drop and forget about it. No adjustments with Boone holes there
11:10 So does that change with Adrian Griffin coaching this team now? We'll see but defensively they're definitely lacking now
11:17 I'm intrigued the guy they did keep in this deal who I thought would almost certainly have to go out is but Marjon Beauchamp
11:22 Who they haven't played much since they drafted him a year or two ago. He brings that wing size
11:27 He's got that pedigree as a defender who can you know?
11:31 Go on a Brown or Tatum, but in recent years who was guarding the Jays on this team. It was holiday
11:37 It was Wes Matthews when he was there George Hill
11:40 even they were trying to scrap together minutes with those kind of guys against the Jays and just
11:44 Taking away the rim from them and hoping that they'd miss shots and that's more the case now that you don't have a holiday
11:49 For how much we talked about John?
11:52 Losing the heart and soul and smart
11:54 This team kind of had its own heart and soul and holiday and an even more well-rounded player
12:00 You know me man. I've been on that holiday train for a really long time
12:03 So I'm a huge fan and for what he does
12:06 And someone put it in the chat and they took the words right out of my mouth
12:10 I think the holidays the guy Celtics fans always thought Marcus smart was you know, like, you know a
12:15 Defender who defends
12:20 every position often frequently
12:22 Defends the best player on any team on any given night
12:26 And also just a guy who can score and who can run the point more efficiently and again
12:30 He's not the elite scoring type guy, but he can bring you but he can get you buckets. He can do everything
12:37 I love everything about holidays game. So yeah, you lose something there if you're Milwaukee
12:41 Yeah for sure and a starter and Grayson Allen, which isn't a big deal. But again another piece of your depth gone here
12:47 They're gonna have to scrap for you
12:48 I'm sure Bobby Portis will step into the starting lineup and then what do you really have off the bench there?
12:53 I know it's not the biggest consideration when you're getting lullied
12:56 But it matters when the top of the East is pretty close here the Celtics they're getting broadened back healthy
13:02 It looks like here. That's a big plus
13:04 They're you know, batting poor Zingas to the frontcourt
13:07 That's gonna help them compete in that frontcourt area and have bigger lineups out there and they might have some bench scores themselves
13:14 So the one thing I'm not gonna do here is
13:17 Say that the Bucks blew past the Celtics with this deal or that the Celtics have to do something now to match this the Celtics
13:24 Are fine with what they have here for the most part
13:26 I'll consider this holiday thing because I love him as a player to John but it's gonna be tough to pull off
13:33 It's gonna take a bold move
13:35 We're gonna talk about that in a little bit because I don't want to I don't want to I don't want to give it all
13:39 away in one spot, but yeah, I am curious what the self what what the
13:43 What the Celtics might be interested in doing let me say this though before we get to that
13:48 This is probably a deal that the Celtics could have come close to matching
13:54 Give or take no
13:56 They don't have the player to give back
13:58 So I wrote about earlier in the week. It probably would have been Brogdon Rob a couple contracts and
14:06 All your future first give for the most part
14:09 That's close to what because Portland's only getting one first here a really good one
14:15 But they have to go out and find some more first now by trading holiday
14:19 I just I think you really it really it's the asset whether you play him or you trade him
14:25 Drew holiday is worth seven Malcolm Brogdon's. I'm sorry
14:29 Like Malcolm Brogdon's not an asset you can do anything with he doesn't make you better and you can't trade him for anything
14:34 But brought the holiday on his own is worth a couple of firsts
14:38 So what are you gonna do? Like that's what I mean is like I just don't think you're whatever you're getting in return
14:43 There's just not gonna be enough unless you did a three and two pick swap
14:47 It's gonna be a hard one to do for Lillard. You would what are you gonna do?
14:51 They're like nothing
14:52 you're gonna give every draft pick you conceivably could as far out as you possibly can and
14:58 and and it would be based on the picks not the player and
15:02 Again, you have to factor in anybody dealing with the Celtics and taking picks back has to recognize no matter how far you go in
15:09 The future they're probably gonna have Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum
15:13 Secured and locked onto this roster for the next four or five years. So good luck having that pick be worth anything
15:19 Worst at worst if the Celtics absolutely blow up and they hold on to those two guys
15:26 They're a middle of the pack team or a five seed. You're never getting a pick outside of the 20s out of Boston
15:31 You're just not yeah
15:32 Whereas you can imagine the Bucks not having oh it box might unravel a little faster because you've got an aging core your two best
15:38 Players now are you know are older the Jays are still are entering their prime?
15:42 So I just don't think the assets are that valuable to sell this have this is their problem with having made these trades is there?
15:48 Always one really there. They're one
15:51 Almost elite players short all the time, you know what I mean?
15:55 And so they're always but they've done a really good job rolling up
15:58 You know lesser players into Derek white rolling up a smart into a poor Zinga
16:03 So they have leveled up along the way but right now short of the Jays or poor Zingas, which you can't trade any of them
16:08 There's really not a movable piece that gets you a player like game, but maybe it gets you drew, you know
16:13 Maybe the money's tougher with drew because you're talking about not quite game level money
16:19 It's a ten million dollar gap between him and Brogdon. You can make that up with spare parts
16:24 Yeah, I mean do you consider Rob?
16:27 Part and that would hurt you
16:32 You would if you would have considered doing that for a load. You probably don't consider doing that for a
16:38 Holiday, it's harder. It's about then you ask about white which I don't even want to think about but
16:44 We can debate the thing is we're getting low
16:48 You had a star who signed for years and years to come and how about all this stuff about not wanting to go to Boston?
16:55 Now, but he's gonna go in Milwaukee
16:57 Come on, like that was the big holdup that he wasn't gonna
17:00 Remember when he wasn't gonna play that you were gonna get an unhappy star if he went anywhere but Miami boat
17:07 Now Milwaukee's fine. It looks like he's gonna play in suit up after all. I mean that was ridiculous, but
17:12 The amount of picks you can give up I think closes the gap on this deal a little bit you're right John
17:20 Over the next three to four years here. Those picks wouldn't have been great
17:23 But if you're giving up picks into the distant future 2029 2030
17:27 Especially unprotected rather than swaps. It would have been a comparable deal now
17:33 You're right broaden on a two-year deal really isn't an asset for Portland
17:37 I think you're probably giving up a pick alone to get off that contract but
17:41 Giving up Rob. I think closes the gap a little bit giving up all those picks
17:45 It was something worth considering
17:48 especially if you could have pulled the Suns in as they did to give up some additional assets and get off that eight and
17:53 Contract like the Bucks did here and there was a real path to the Celtics doing this
17:57 I think it would have been tough but think of it from this perspective John
18:01 We have all this uncertainty about broaden which got minimized a little bit last night. Fortunately, there's always uncertainty around Rob every single year
18:08 You're getting a piece back. That's a little more certain and lowered at that point
18:12 Yeah, even given his age and some of the injuries he's had in recent years real quick. I want to address the super chat
18:18 We did thank you very much for the contribution
18:20 anybody who does
18:22 Participate and
18:26 Throw anything our way on the super chats. All the money is redirected to the hosts of the podcast
18:31 So thank you very much for doing that. We did talk about this. This is a big part of this deal
18:36 It really is it does in fact
18:38 Absolutely take away a defensive presence and some identity from the Bucks and they have to find a way to account for that
18:45 I still think they have to make the move to play Kate Giannis
18:49 But 100% this has an impact on them as well
18:53 And again the depth problem and thank you again here for this one. We do appreciate it. Let me read that
18:59 Japeth
19:02 Thank you. You're right. If you go super team you go legit big three
19:07 Your depth suffers. It's what happens
19:10 What are we looking at with the Celtics right now, Bobby?
19:12 You have a big two and a half or a big three if you want to count Porzingis
19:16 but you you're seven deep and you're talking about Hauser and Pritchard and
19:21 O'Shea Brissett and this and that playing meaningful minutes for you and that's before any load management, which you technically can't do anymore, but
19:28 before you start to load manage guys like Rob and Horford and you have injury concerns with guys like Brogdon and and
19:35 And and you know, it's a house of cards when you go big three
19:39 You do not have a much margin for error, especially if you want to rest your stars, too
19:44 What are we gonna be doing? You're gonna be playing
19:45 I mean in the Bucks are notorious with this Bobby the Bucks our team look at Giannis's minutes
19:50 They manage the hell out of him 32 33
19:53 Whereas the Celtics with Tatum is up to 37 or so per game
19:57 They're very careful with that and when you when you lack depth, you can't manage minutes as effectively
20:01 Yeah, especially if you them and you have Jake Crowder Pat Connett and a couple shooters off
20:07 The the drop is too big
20:09 It's always the problem when you when it's what happened a couple years ago when it when when when when a J was off the court
20:15 The Celtics were tank because everybody knew this just whoever you're bringing in there really really messes with the mojo
20:21 The Bucks will be in that position for sure
20:23 Yeah
20:23 and I don't think it's comparable to Boston because the Celtics and stagger a lot between those three stars and they do have guys off
20:30 the bench that have contributed in the past even at big spots when you mentioned Pritchard there, but
20:34 This Bucks team it is then like you're gonna have trouble resting
20:39 You're gonna have trouble staggering lineups in the second units Middleton really is the X Factor, right?
20:44 If he's the old middle thing, this is probably fine with that staggering
20:47 But if he's anything close to what we saw last year, it's gonna be tough here for them. I agree
20:53 So we are gonna talk we're gonna talk a little bit about some of our trade scenarios and get some thoughts
20:58 We'll talk to you guys in the chat as well and see what you're thinking
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23:58 Let's get back to it
24:00 You know Celtics media day is beginning, right?
24:03 It's on it's coming up on Monday recent report that Malcolm Brogdon is completely healthy entering Celtics training camp
24:10 I don't think we believe that that was
24:12 possible based on the lack of
24:16 Intel we were getting on the situation. It was washburn Gary Gary's one who's you know reported this
24:23 We got a lot of crap for washburns report
24:26 It's not I mean then Ramona Shelburne did it and everybody stopped crying about it, but whether Brogdon is whether Brogdon is pissed or not
24:33 May not matter if he's a professional he shows up. There's a lot of people who don't love things at work
24:39 Okay, I live in a town right now where the teachers are really mad because they're not getting a fair contract, you know
24:45 And they're you know, they're they're they're bummed about it and it's pretty rancorous and it goes back and forth
24:50 But they show up every day and they teach Malcolm Brogdon's a professional. He's gonna show up and play basketball
24:55 He's not gonna sulk and pout we thought but we weren't sure
24:58 His health status and whether or not he was gonna slow play this injury be insistent to not get surgery show up and not be
25:05 Fit to play that was a greater concern than whether or not his feelings are hurt personally. That's my opinion
25:11 so this is
25:13 Really good news if it's the case and again Brad Steven says he's fully healthy fully healthy could mean a lot of things right Bobby
25:19 It doesn't mean necessarily
25:21 he's
25:23 1000% but there's not an injury that's gonna keep him from playing
25:26 Presumably here. Yeah, and in the article last night Stevens did acknowledge that Brogdon was upset about it being nearly trade to the Clippers
25:35 The sides have had conversations over the past few weeks and that's kind of where he left it
25:39 Yeah, I'm not gonna Gary there. So but that's that's been reported the whole time. Yeah
25:43 I well like that that he's been mad. I mean not just reported that's been
25:48 spoken into existence by Brad and by
25:52 And by Joe in ways, you don't normally hear people say that it's very rare to hear the entire brass say like yeah
25:59 We've got some fences to man. Well, it's rare to have this situation
26:02 I mean you'll end up in rumors sometimes
26:04 It might come out after the fact that a deal was closed but for a deal to be done
26:08 That's surprising and I do wonder what is Bragdon want here because the Celtics can't do much to placate him, right?
26:17 They can't start him
26:18 I guess they could but you prefer not to with what you set up this year
26:22 You could extend him, but I'm sure you don't want to do that either
26:25 Yeah, you just extend you got to extend white now over the next couple months here and
26:31 Train Pritchard's extension eligible, too. So you're probably not gonna pay him on top of what you're already paying here
26:37 This guy this guy's in my head right here Bobby. This is exactly what I said on our chat
26:41 Horford, huh? Yeah. Well you said Horford I said Pritchard. No, I said Rob
26:48 Huh, I said Rob. Oh
26:50 I said brought where are you seeing Horford? He's in the chat there. No, but the thing I just put on the screen doesn't say Horford
26:57 Yeah, do you think Brad will package Horford Bragdon and Pritchard? Oh, okay. Sorry. I was just looking at the Bragdon Pritchard
27:04 I don't know if you need a Horford necessarily, but I do like the Bragdon and Pritchard
27:07 Yeah, you need a close about 10 million. So you need more than Pritchard and it'd be Robert
27:13 If you really want holiday you'd have to consider white which
27:18 Is a tougher trade-off I think and then Rob, of course, you're losing quite a bit of center depth there. It's
27:24 It's a tough decision
27:26 But if you really want to get it done you can know you can close that gap with like Pritchard and Cornette
27:31 You know like in how if you want it, you know, I mean, it's like you can do spare parts
27:36 You're just gonna all of a sudden be that team that has no players
27:40 You know that your 10 11 12 guys are main taxi squad guys, you know
27:44 Like yeah, that's what you'll end up being but like you absolutely can find the spare pieces without
27:48 Trading something of your of actual value without a rotational piece
27:52 I'm not well rotational piece the reason you'd have to consider white though is that you do need a trade
27:57 Pay holiday next summer and what are you talking about? They're 30 40 million a year. I don't know
28:04 Yeah, that's where it's gonna get tough money wise. I mean this team's already in a tough spot
28:09 I know but you'll be fine because you'll just trade Jalen
28:11 It gives you more it gives you more options down. He's 33. He's not getting 30 40 million at this age anymore
28:18 you're basically you're doing it you're doing one year of holiday for two years of of
28:23 Of Brogdon and you probably get off cheaper because of the contract so you're not giving up multiple picks
28:29 So you might be able to do it cheaply to improve today and then next and the next year assess everything
28:34 You have Tatum on the table as a as an extension guy
28:37 But then you have the flexibility to trade poor Zingas Brown extend holiday and that gives you options all of a sudden
28:45 Chances of keeping all better make sure holiday wants to stay though. Yeah, but chances of keeping all of them small but
28:51 Now all of a sudden you have some options there
28:54 and if you can't you could do a sign and trade with holiday because there's just not a lot of a lot of teams with
28:58 The cap space just sitting around to give out these big deals. So
29:02 You have options there if you do it what you have to ask is are you good enough with the team you have here?
29:09 to win it all
29:11 I'd say yeah, I do do do you gain enough in?
29:15 Holiday to
29:19 Warrant what you'd be given up for him
29:21 Even if it is just broad then who is a great offensive piece for this team last year
29:25 I mean if it's Brogdon and a holiday a bunch of spare parts and a pick that you can live without
29:29 Yeah, you do it. No question about it
29:30 I mean you because you could get a little more aggressive with the pics - yeah instantly instantly you leapfrog
29:37 Mala, I mean immediately you leapfrog
29:39 Everybody with that lineup everybody. No, it's a fair point. It's a fair point
29:44 You can get very aggressive with those pics you can yeah, so this year you are
29:48 absolutely, you know a
29:51 Real real tough out. I mean you're you are you are really the team to beat if health stays there
29:59 And then you have some options after you're gonna be expensive so somebody's got to move
30:02 So let's jump into the trade machine here, so you're gonna get to 36 Brogdon and Pritchard gives you 26
30:09 throw in
30:12 Cornette
30:13 That hurts you
30:15 That gets you to their 28, so you're a little closer there. Who else could you add?
30:20 Hauser is another two so that gets you to 30
30:27 Walsh
30:29 That gets you to
30:31 32
30:32 How close do you have to be within 1%?
30:34 10% so what's your close with 36 minus 3?
30:40 Yeah, I got one more contract
30:43 Maybe my high Luke. I don't even know if you can trade him yet, but that would get you there
30:47 So you're right you just add up a bunch of contracts six guys going out
30:51 Holiday coming in. Yeah, all of them get bought out
30:56 Yeah
30:58 So let me put the final product on the screen here
31:01 You can it's up to you if you like pressing buttons, okay
31:07 That pop up there. There you go. It's up there that money works if you're just gonna stack contracts
31:14 I got a check to see if you can trade my high loop, but if you can that works
31:20 Again you're giving up all your depth there you're giving up. Well, you keep white in this scenario, which is good
31:26 Yeah, and then you got to make a bunch of decisions by the end of the year
31:29 Like you have some people guessing things like this, which I don't think are are off. Absolutely. I think you're rude of the heat is in play
31:36 Definitely and that scares you again if you're Boston and you're looking at the heat again
31:42 They can trade here which it's probably a tough trade-off for them offense deep. That's a tougher one
31:47 You lose some offense there you get the defense and then you get older and then you as you said you've got to figure out
31:51 What you're gonna do into the future there? Yeah, I mean you gotta if Brogdon's pissed I'm sure heroes
31:57 Furious the way he's been forwarded. How long are we gonna have this on the screen for?
32:02 No, the heat the heat scare you with holiday and that's maybe another reason to do that deal is so the heat don't get them
32:11 They can lower in there
32:13 They have future picks somebody. I mean if we were the heat show right now, we wouldn't even be questioning
32:19 It's I do this deal right now. Yeah bring in holiday. He fits their mold, man
32:23 I want I want to I want to bathe I want to soak up some Miami sadness too when I get off this show
32:28 Yeah, they were already heading in that direction. It started early with some of the report. You know what screw everyone for that
32:36 This drove me nuts the people on I don't even understand how this was a conversation
32:42 involving, uh, you know
32:44 the
32:47 No the idea of like that the heat will eventually get him like the heat were offering
32:53 Garbage, you know, like I don't get it like that trade
32:59 It was and and Lillard just saying Miami or nothing
33:03 No, it was like everyone's like what not everyone a lot of people like well, you owe it to him. He's been a good no
33:08 That's you get a no trade clause or you just that's it
33:13 Like there's no option here like just to say trade me to this team only you don't get to do that
33:20 and like the idea that Miami was just gonna wear them out and they were gonna wait them out and get him for next to
33:25 Nothing drove me insane. So I think it's a victory for like
33:29 Collective bargaining, you know the fact that they didn't just that he wasn't able to just will himself to only one team
33:35 I thought that was ridiculous
33:37 Yeah, and good for Portland for holding on for so long and as I should have talking to Miami after a certain point
33:43 I'm sure Miami was offering ridiculous packages thinking that they were the only one in the race here
33:48 And then you wait long enough and a another suitor emerges here. I'm sure the Toronto stuff was real
33:53 I'm sure that got people going a little bit in terms of putting stuff out there and
33:58 Who knows who else checked in there were reports that Philly did that Boston did over these last couple months here. So
34:06 From Lily's perspective you understand it. You didn't want to end up in Oklahoma City or something like that
34:11 So you did have to stake your claim on something but he should have offered a couple different teams and ultimately he did
34:16 Like at some point I'm sure he said fine Milwaukee, which is funny. You know, what's great Bobby
34:22 What's that all of our regulars reuniting for the first time in a little while?
34:27 There's a great way to break into the season. No, it's great. I'm seeing all these familiar names. I'm so happy to have everybody back
34:34 Judah Rob Landon blorp
34:36 Atui lol
34:39 Yeah, I'm ready to get started
34:42 So it William D. What's up, William D Jacksonville? No, it's great. It's great having the regulars
34:47 Maybe you guys have been cheating on us at other podcasts, which is cool
34:50 I don't mind we don't mind the competition, but we are back officially
34:55 We were gonna get really rolling starting next week when media day starts. We'll be live all day from there with press conferences
35:02 And you know live press conferences coming from our back arena not Canton. So thank goodness for that
35:08 That's on Monday and then they're off and running Bobby is on the beat
35:11 He'll be covering the Celtics and we'll be back with at least two garden reports a week throughout
35:16 The preseason and we'll do post games shows after the preseason and then we're off and running with with the regular season
35:23 So, I mean we are here baby. It's
35:25 It's on at this point
35:28 yeah, and
35:29 Media day is gonna be very interesting. I think pretty much every player has one interesting question to answer here
35:35 You know, we're starting to preview some of the biggest stories going into media day
35:40 So you can check those out at cnsmedia.com a bunch of different podcasts coming. I'm glad we got this
35:45 We're gonna be talking about Lamar Stevens today John
35:47 Exciting exciting Bobby. This is a little better than that. So
35:52 This is great, I mean the Easter is gonna be a little bit boring
35:58 This shakes things up quite a bit here and makes things really interesting. I know that it's boring
36:03 but it's um
36:05 It was boring before this
36:07 No, it's not boring as much as it basically is that you are I
36:12 Mean what was boring before like you thought the Celtics were just gonna march to the they were healthy
36:19 They might have marched through this East really. I
36:23 Mean who worries you here before this deal?
36:25 Miami's gonna be scrapping and car and with the team they have to get into the playoffs again
36:30 and they always worry you if you do line up against them come postseason time, but
36:34 The odds would stack against that Philly you worried about Philly right now
36:39 Not really
36:42 Cleveland New York
36:44 Yeah, I mean Philly's a circus. Obviously, they you know, they've got their they've got their hands full with that
36:49 I'm curious what happens now with Hardin. I'm curious Hardin comes into play for Miami
36:54 So there was reporting out there that didn't end up being accurate that he was gonna skip media day
37:01 I think it the actual report was that there's questions about whether he's gonna show up on media day or not
37:06 So that circus could get going early on Monday
37:09 Yeah, I mean, yeah, I skip camp though with that rule that you can't become a free agent if you
37:15 withhold your services, so
37:18 He's gonna have to show up
37:20 And why like they have a pretty good team this I know what do you what do you gain from the fat suit honestly?
37:29 Like it's just silly at this point
37:31 No one's even worried about him either. I mean, that's a guy who has zero suitors right now who would want that guy?
37:37 Zero suitors one fat suit. Yeah
37:40 Yeah, no doubt. I don't know how and if they run it back if the coach is better. Yeah a new coach
37:47 They
37:49 Were a quarter away from beating the Celtics and they probably would have beat the heat - yeah, it's uh, it's strange
37:56 You know, it's the you know, there were there were a couple of bounces away from you know
37:59 Possibly winning a title a few years. I mean so, you know, you never know but
38:02 Alright, we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna wrap it up in a little bit
38:05 We got a couple more things to talk about again. I need to tell you a couple more things, of course
38:10 You know all about AG one, but we do have to tell you about it here
38:15 Everyone at the garden report is an avid AG one supporter Bobby. I know downs it daily Jimmy
38:21 Stacks it that's what he does
38:24 Which is great. And you know, what is it? It's a you know, one-stop shopping supplement here that
38:30 You know personally I drink every single day that gives you
38:34 You know kind of everything you need to kind of get your day, right?
38:37 vitamins minerals
38:40 adaptogens
38:41 It's a immune system support
38:43 If you don't want to take a million pills and vitamins, you can just do this here
38:48 You get an energy boost a lot of different things like that
38:52 You probably like I said are probably farming out to five six different supplements just to get everything that AG one gives to you
38:58 So again, just one scoop put it in a cup of water beginning of the day and you're done. That's it
39:04 And you're on your way to better health. So take advantage of that special offer here
39:10 At can you read it Bobby? I can barely read it
39:13 It is drink a g1. Just kidding drink a g1.com slash garden. No, that one's big enough
39:20 I can read drink a g1.com slash garden
39:24 Go take care of your health right now. Another thing we want to tell you about and if I can find it
39:30 We're just overwhelmed with sponsors. We have a lot of them. We have a lot of them and I can't find the factor meals one
39:40 Can you find it right here
39:42 No newsfeed 50 that's not ours I
39:48 Think that's good. You think it's good. Yeah, I don't think it's good. Do you think it's good?
39:57 Take it down
40:01 Well, we'll figure out where there's a special promo code for the garden. We got to tell you about four factor meals
40:06 We'll tell you about that one later. So Bobby
40:09 Fear factor here after this deal. I don't think the Celtics in the team. You're not okay. Here's what I'll say
40:14 You're scared of Giannis and you always scared of Giannis you always should be scared of Giannis
40:21 Especially coming off a first-round exit. So if you line up against him come playoff time just think back to two years ago
40:28 It's gonna be a grind every possession
40:30 You're gonna have to be stacking the whole defense against him and this year you don't have Grant Williams
40:37 You have Al Horford, but does he take a little bit of a step back this year? Does he come off the bench?
40:42 I think it's tougher to utilize him every possession against Giannis in that case
40:46 So you're a little less equipped to guard one of the best players in the league this year
40:51 So that's what you worry is you and now he has a guy that he can kick out, too
40:55 I was just looking at loads catching shoot stats at 36%
40:58 He doesn't didn't shoot a ton of them obviously in Portland
41:02 But this is a guy who shot 11 threes a game last year and hit 37% of them, which is just ridiculous three-point volume
41:08 I know they've been rumored to get buddy healed to potentially here
41:12 I don't know what they can give up for him at this point, but that's another shooter who's among the best of the best. So
41:17 That's what scares you the top-end talent here we can parse the depth that doesn't matter as much come postseason time here
41:25 You're worried about Giannis who you're in a tougher spot to guard this year and you're worried about Lillard who?
41:32 Is a tough matchup for anybody like I think people forgot with Lillard playing on some crap teams the last couple years in
41:38 2020 which I know is a little while ago now
41:41 He was as good as anyone in the league
41:44 He was playing at like MVP level in the bubble and he got back to that last year after a couple injury riddled season
41:52 So he's gonna be amazing here him and Giannis and that Lillard was ridiculous last year
41:57 He was absolutely back and that's why I would have
42:01 Thought about going after him. I really would have I mean, I think he would have been a great fit on the Celtics
42:08 I think he would have solved a lot of their biggest issues. You still worry when it comes to the Celtics about
42:13 execution late in games
42:16 facilitating and ball handling and
42:18 Health like those three concerns remain the same here. And yes, the Bucs have their own concerns going into the year
42:25 But what you lost here is that you're no longer the prohibited favorite in the East. That's that's where I am
42:30 Okay, fair enough throw up that factor thing
42:33 Same code. Yeah, give it to me
42:37 And do you lose your vision this summer John it's gotten progressively worse it's a pandemic it's a pandemic loss
42:46 It was 2020
42:49 like
42:53 Two years ago, I was like I can't see this anymore and now it's like ridiculous. But anyway too busy to cook
42:59 This fall which some people are it's like back to school. Everyone's like
43:03 Serious again work you gotta you gotta actually start working after kind of you know, mailing it in during the summer
43:10 factor meals really helps especially especially
43:13 well, maybe maybe not everybody but um factor meals really can help you here because it's it's it's
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43:26 You don't have to cook you don't have to do any prep. You don't have to shop for ingredients. You just get
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43:38 There's basically anything you can customize it get whatever you want upscale meals premium ingredients
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43:50 So you can get that delivered right to your door head over to factor meals.com slash
43:55 Newsfeed 50 once again factor meals.com slash newsfeed 50 use the code newsfeed 50 get 50% off
44:02 Your first order once again newsfeed 50 50% off your order and hey, why not?
44:08 It's that time of year. You can get a garden report t-shirt. You submit a receipt for
44:15 Any of our sponsors show us that you signed up you can get a free garden report t-shirt
44:21 What a way to start the year if any of you're going to Celtics games
44:23 I want to see you heading out on mass with these things on one. Yeah, and that's a good one there
44:30 So that's great. So
44:32 That's that's kind of it the Bucks. This was the breaking news here Bucks acquired
44:37 Damon Lillard the Lillard saga is over
44:41 Definitely a little bit of a power shift in the east, but I agree with you Bobby
44:45 I think it makes things at the very least, you know
44:47 Intrigue right it adds it adds something here and I was just looking at the schedule. They don't play until November 22nd
44:55 unfortunately in Boston, so you're gonna have to wait a little while to see them, but it'll be worth the wait and
45:00 Last question I got for you John
45:03 You feel a little better given the report last night going into this training camp here on Brogdon and
45:10 Porzingis who's healthy now totally totally. I you know, the porzingis thing was always a question mark right Bobby like
45:16 you know
45:18 Like how hurt was he how?
45:21 Insanely exceedingly precautionary was this by the Celtics. Did they really come in and be like dude?
45:28 Please don't play like we really can't do this like please and he was like I get it
45:34 That's all good. And that's I felt it was more like that rather than a I roll here
45:39 We go again with porzingis and his injuries. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's a thing
45:43 That's what I was to start then you hear a plantar fasciitis and you're like, I get it and like it
45:49 You know, this is the thing tall guys get hurt a lot
45:52 you know, there's a lot of body there and a lot of body parts and
45:55 It's not uncommon. So that is a good point though
45:59 Cuz you do think he'd be slow walking it a little bit into camp and now all of a sudden here
46:02 He is just throwing up shots and going to speed so so yeah, I feel good about that
46:08 I actually think I think it might have been grainy who tweeted it and I agree with it wholeheartedly
46:13 You know talking about the whole porzingis thing. I think porzingis is both a ceiling razor and
46:20 Possibly a floor lower
46:23 Like the Celtics love the Celtics might have a lower floor with this roster, but a higher ceiling as well
46:29 There's just more that can go wrong and there's less margin for error
46:33 But I think if everybody plays to full health
46:35 They are absolutely, you know a really formidable team. And I think if everybody is healthy, you're not gonna be like Oh
46:42 Marcus's grit. Where is it? Like they're just gonna be better. They're going to their offense is gonna be better
46:49 They're just gonna be overall better. They're gonna be able to beat you in more ways
46:53 So I like that but if Brogdon wasn't healthy all of a sudden you went from what was
46:58 Like a strength with three-point guards. I'll be at none of them were
47:03 The you know prototypical type of point guard that you wanted the great facilitator in this net
47:08 But all of them good basketball players
47:10 You went from a depth position to just D white and question mark question mark
47:15 Maybe Peyton Pritchard and who the hell knows what that could have been a real problem
47:18 and the thing that scared me more than anything else was the report that Tatum was gonna play more point guard and I was like
47:24 You know like so I didn't get that report though cuz you look at the ball time
47:32 Years
47:33 No
47:34 Tatum led the way and these guys are gonna cut into it a little bit but Tatum's gonna have the ball the most this year
47:40 Let point guards be point guards
47:44 We'll see with bright white. I'm excited about white this year getting to start every game and broad then, you know, there's still questions about
47:51 How he feels you Tatum kills you as a point guard cuz he's just too slow
47:58 He's just not a quick enough decision maker. Everything's deliberate the pace grinds to a halt
48:03 Can't be in Browns hands because of the turnover problems. So you want white log an extra time?
48:09 I just want ball handlers handling the ball and I want it going to people and I want them making quick decisions with what they're
48:14 Going to do and I want movement and I want pace
48:17 I don't want it sticking in Tatum's hands while the defense sets and everybody gets ready for him and they force him left and he's
48:24 got to make some weird pass to a guy that you don't want to have the ball in their hands and they have to shoot like
48:28 Putting the ball in Tatum's hands forces the ball out of Tatum's hands
48:33 I don't like it. Like it's not it's not what I want to see. I don't think he's a good enough facilitator
48:37 I think it really really messes with the pace on
48:40 On occasion fine. I can't stand point Tatum. I can't stand it. I
48:45 Get it, but any can't stand it. Please don't do it. Please don't do it
48:50 I still think after all of these years even last year when they had three point guards the thing they needed most was an actual
48:55 Point guard. Yeah, and we're gonna keep saying that but if Tatum's not capable of doing that
49:01 This team's probably not capable of winning at all. So that is one of the big questions going into this year
49:06 We'll see look can people make leaps? Yeah, sure time is not I wouldn't say times running out
49:12 But like I still I say this all the time Bobby Tatum and Brown are fully formed close to
49:18 Can they continue to improve some sure?
49:20 I don't think either one is going to unlock an element of their game that
49:24 Didn't exist at all before and this notion that Tatum's gotten better at this
49:28 I still don't think there's either the eye test or the numbers to support it
49:32 I really don't like I don't think he's that much better with the ball in his hands
49:36 I think he has to play a slightly different style to utilize his strengths and his skill set
49:42 I don't think having him as your point forward and putting the ball in his hand at all times is
49:47 The best thing that you can do and I just don't think that's in his DNA. I think he's got to be a scorer
49:51 And you know first and foremost and and be able to move the ball. But anyway, yes, Cass
49:59 Waiting for you. Yeah, we want to I want to get holiday if we can I'd like to I'd like to do a Brogdon piece here
50:05 it is enticing isn't it but
50:09 You're shaking up quite a bit of the roster to do it here
50:12 And how much again you talked about death to start the show John it is nice to have during the regular season
50:18 But can drew unlock something that didn't have before that guy he saw so he does so many things for you
50:24 If you can get it so many things for you
50:26 He's definitely a guy who could log many more minutes on the ball at point guard then white and broad. Yes
50:31 So how aggressive do you get with the picks yeah, do you flip around and trade broad and right after you settled that
50:42 If Friday was mad before
50:44 Cast fire Brad get get brought get your rule or fire Brad, right?
50:50 That's what we're doing
50:53 And it's 33 million Bobby. I think not 36. So you do a little bit less less
50:58 There's a there's bonuses in there. There's a kicker 37. Yeah, okay yee
51:02 So that's the number you're trying to match there and trade rules are a little tougher with matching this year
51:09 You got to be within 10% which you said is I know a million. So I know I know I know
51:14 It's tougher. There's strong cases for and against it and is very strong strong cases for it
51:21 Do you think especially do you think there's a world in which?
51:24 the Celtics this is there a
51:27 Like we don't know if it's possible
51:31 But I do wonder if the Celtics if they were in on it
51:34 We're always in on it
51:36 but the Bucks would absolutely not include the Celtics in a three or a four-way trade because no way they're gonna let holiday go to
51:43 Boston and
51:45 They would never and the Celtics are sitting in the wings
51:48 Absolutely with a done deal and all of a sudden it's announced like in four hours
51:52 Wouldn't shock me because yeah, it would have made sense to include the Celtics as a partner here if you wanted to get it done
51:58 but the last thing Milwaukee would want to do is somehow route drew to Boston and
52:03 You know
52:05 If Brad were lurking waiting in the wings, that would be the first time all of you
52:09 You know fanboys with your Brad
52:11 Gif of him nodding there and like that that I think that that would be appropriate this time of like yeah
52:18 I waited for this to happen and as soon as it did I pounced so I don't know
52:22 We'll see if it's if it's
52:24 Sun stepped up and threw a in there cuz obviously Portland really liked a and yeah, I don't know what Portland's doing there
52:31 I wonder part of my thing
52:33 part of me thinks they're just Celtics are laying in the weeds here waiting for it to settle and
52:37 Then as soon as it's official be like so we have holidays coming over here
52:41 I was curious if they were in on load himself and maybe that I just don't think it was feasible
52:46 Despite like Tatum's recruiting and this not anything out of the pieces, but we do have to wrap it
52:52 So thank you guys for hanging out. It actually was a joy seeing all of these names in here
52:55 I'm really psyched that everybody's kind of coming back out
52:59 And we're psyched to start the season and as we said
53:01 Monday's media day will have live press conferences and stuff throughout the day and then we'll all jump on that night and do something
53:08 But before then we're going to do a training camp season preview show on Thursday. That's tomorrow. Oh my goodness tomorrow
53:16 Yeah, so we jumped the gun. We came out a little early. We're gonna talk tomorrow
53:19 We're hoping to have more of the crew available. So
53:22 follow all of us on Twitter follow Celtic CLNS on Twitter and subscribe and
53:28 To this YouTube channel you get and turn on your notifications. You'll be notified when we go live you can jump on
53:33 We're looking at maybe 8 o'clock tomorrow
53:36 For a live show, but we're still working on the time there waiting to see what the other guys can do
53:40 So join us tell your friends were psyched to start the season again
53:44 Recapping our top story once again
53:48 Bucks acquired Damon Lillard from the Portland Trailblazers a three-team deal
53:54 Where Lillard goes there Jeru goes to Portland some other pieces moving as well bucks got off pretty cheap here. I would say
54:01 Didn't see it coming so it's creative. It's bold. I love Portland here too, man. You know, this is a great argument
54:09 If it's time to take a step back just do it cuz you're gonna get a hundred picks
54:13 You're gonna get so many assets. You're gonna pick high and yeah, it's gonna be awesome. Yep
54:18 So thank you guys for hanging out. We appreciate it. We'll see you tomorrow night for a preview show on the garden report
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