Fight Against Corruption: The Akufo-Addo government has perfected corruption - Murtala | The Big Stories
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00:00 regarding the tip again I just want to know does the second tip suggest that
00:05 indeed the initial tip which went viral is a seductive one?
00:12 It seems to be the case because the second tip is one which is a very long
00:23 discussion which I can come to some understanding that they do not dispute.
00:32 Well here we are back in the studio as we get into our big stories and we're
00:42 going to be talking about everything in between. We had to play that tape to set
00:48 the tone for the the potboiler, the start to the conversation we're about to have
00:53 but here in the studio we have Murtala Muhammad, Member of Parliament Tamale
00:58 Central. Sometimes he's when you see him on the floor of Parliament doing his
01:05 thing. The last time I saw him in some deep waters it was with Isla Oswekufu.
01:10 You call that deep waters?
01:12 A very good morning to you sir. Thanks for joining us in the studio.
01:17 I know you're mischievous.
01:19 Mischievous? Why mischievous?
01:21 Because I'm deep waters.
01:23 But that day it was fiery on the floor of Parliament.
01:25 I mean that's deep waters.
01:27 People were wooing you.
01:29 Okay so this morning when Murtala came in, you remember there was this time about a year and a half ago or so I think when he came and he did some renditions in Patois.
01:45 Can you do something for us this morning?
01:47 I'm not going to do anything.
01:49 Anything in Patois.
01:51 Why you say?
01:53 Why I say?
01:55 He was telling me that I was speaking.
01:57 I said nothing.
01:59 You said nothing?
02:01 Yeah.
02:03 Okay.
02:05 Okay.
02:07 Can you share some greetings with the members of your constituency in Patois?
02:09 If it's not in Patois you're not doing it.
02:11 Anyway good to have you on the show this morning.
02:13 Good to be here.
02:15 Before we get into that tape that we played, I think it's only fitting as I always do.
02:19 What's Tamale Central been like? When was the last time you were there?
02:23 I was in Tamale about two weeks ago.
02:25 Okay.
02:27 And apparently I was in Tamale on official assignment.
02:29 Apparently?
02:31 Yes.
02:33 Because I work on, I serve on public accounts committee.
02:35 Oh right.
02:37 So I went to Tamale a week ago.
02:39 And I was in Tamale for a week.
02:41 And I was in Tamale for a week.
02:43 Oh right.
02:45 So I went to Tamale a week before.
02:47 Came back to Accra and I had to go back to Tamale
02:49 because of the work of the public accounts committee.
02:51 You know the country is zoned to four.
02:53 So the five northern regions.
02:55 The public hearing takes place in Tamale.
02:57 So I was in Tamale, you know, specifically for parliamentary work.
02:59 But I took advantage at least to meet youth groups in the night.
03:01 You know we start the sitting at nine and sometimes we finish around seven.
03:03 And I was in Tamale for a week.
03:05 And I was in Tamale for a week.
03:07 And I was in Tamale for a week.
03:09 And I was in Tamale for a week.
03:11 And I was in Tamale for a week.
03:13 And I was in Tamale for a week.
03:15 And I was in Tamale for a week.
03:17 And I was in Tamale for a week.
03:19 And I was in Tamale for a week.
03:21 And I was in Tamale for a week.
03:23 And I was in Tamale for a week.
03:25 And I was in Tamale for a week.
03:27 And I was in Tamale for a week.
03:29 And I was in Tamale for a week.
03:31 And I was in Tamale for a week.
03:33 And I was in Tamale for a week.
03:35 And I was in Tamale for a week.
03:37 And I was in Tamale for a week.
03:39 And this weekend, we shall be,
03:41 Inshallah, in Hope.
03:43 For Volta, Eastern,
03:45 Greater Accra,
03:47 and the other regions.
03:49 The other, the new region.
03:51 And from there, we'll move to Takoradi.
03:53 For Central, Western,
03:55 and then the Western North.
03:57 That's what we do.
03:59 We are looking at the 2021 Auditor General's report.
04:01 We are looking at the 2021 Auditor General's report.
04:03 We want to clear the backlog.
04:05 Remember that was the objective we set.
04:07 Once we are done, we shall begin
04:09 with the 2022 Auditor General's report.
04:11 So that we do not have the backlog.
04:13 So that we do not have the backlog.
04:15 This was a major criticism, particularly coming from the media.
04:17 Why we've been doing this.
04:19 Why we've been doing this.
04:21 So what we are doing, what we are doing,
04:23 what we expected us to do. You need to give us the credit.
04:25 So we give you credit for that.
04:27 Thank you for at least responding to what we've called for over the years.
04:29 It includes the Auditor General,
04:31 and the fact that we feel
04:33 a lot of the time,
04:35 it is not proactive.
04:37 It tends to be retrospective.
04:39 So we want a system where
04:41 when the thing is happening, you can clamp down on it.
04:43 Don't wait for the loss to happen.
04:45 But thankfully, I mean, if you look at the losses
04:47 of the Auditor General, for example,
04:49 cited by the Auditor General,
04:51 the last time, over 99%
04:53 the last time, over 99%
04:55 or 97% were recoverable.
04:57 Which is good.
04:59 Whether they will be recovered is another point altogether.
05:01 I think that has to do with the Attorney General too.
05:03 It's important.
05:05 And I say this with profound conviction
05:07 and concern.
05:09 That, you remember,
05:11 there are a lot of procurement bridges
05:13 and other infractions.
05:15 And how far
05:17 Parliament can go, a committee of Parliament can go.
05:19 We do our public hearing.
05:21 We submit our report
05:23 as a committee to plenary.
05:25 And then plenary then takes a decision.
05:27 A lot of institutions and individuals
05:29 were commended for prosecution.
05:31 Including Francis S.M.
05:33 Really?
05:35 Yes, including Francis S.M.
05:37 The cylinder.
05:39 And in fact, the committee unanimously
05:41 agreed that she
05:43 should be prosecuted. We sent the report
05:45 to plenary and it was adopted.
05:47 It means that even in the entire House
05:49 agreed that Francis S.M.
05:51 and other individuals should be prosecuted.
05:53 Over a year now.
05:55 I was about to ask, what has happened to that?
05:57 We should be asking. And I'm bringing it
05:59 to force so that you guys can demand
06:01 from the Minister of Justice.
06:03 But what are the actionable
06:05 means
06:07 to be followed?
06:09 The purpose for the public
06:11 hearing is that when the Auditor General
06:13 submits its report to Parliament,
06:15 Mr. Speaker then refers the report
06:17 to the appropriate committee, in this
06:19 case the Public Accounts Committee.
06:21 We then provide an opportunity
06:23 for the people who have been
06:25 cited by the Auditor General
06:27 to come and justify why they think
06:29 that they should not be
06:31 surcharged or they should not be prosecuted
06:33 depending on the recommendation of the Auditor General.
06:35 And the AG has that. The Auditor General
06:37 has those powers. Surcharging,
06:39 disallowance, and then retrieval
06:41 of the sums. Let me just conclude
06:43 how the process is done.
06:45 So we provide people
06:47 who have been cited in institutions the opportunity
06:49 to come and justify through the public hearing.
06:51 There are instances where people have
06:53 come and then we realise that the Auditor General
06:55 has been affected. And the committee
06:57 will recommend that no, make the necessary
06:59 payment. And some, the payments would have been
07:01 affected even before they appeared before the committee.
07:03 Mind you, wherever you go, we have
07:05 officials of the Auditor General and the
07:07 various Auditor General
07:09 employees and people
07:11 within the districts and regions. Now,
07:13 when we bring our report as a committee
07:15 to Plenary and it is adopted,
07:17 we then submit the same to the Minister
07:19 for Justice and Authority and for Prosecution.
07:21 So at that stage,
07:23 it gets out of the domain
07:25 of the legislature. It is now the
07:27 responsibility of the executive
07:29 arm, in this case the Minister for Justice.
07:31 Are you then saying that there has
07:33 been the lack of will
07:35 from the executive to pursue?
07:37 And I ask that question in context.
07:39 You remember recently at the Ghana Bar
07:41 conference, Mr President spoke about corruption.
07:43 I can fish out what exactly he
07:45 said, but he made mention of the fact that
07:47 his administration
07:49 had come to the
07:51 forefront in the fight against
07:53 corruption, doing everything.
07:55 Let me just quote. Let me just quote
07:57 Mr President. I think I can find
07:59 what I shared
08:01 from... Yes, he says
08:03 "My government has taken
08:05 boldest initiative to fight
08:07 corruption since independence."
08:09 "My government
08:11 has taken the boldest
08:13 initiative to fight corruption since independence."
08:15 Now, these accusations,
08:17 for example, Francis Sissiem,
08:19 what are they?
08:21 What do they border on?
08:23 Did you believe the President when he said he has
08:25 taken the boldest decision? Everybody
08:27 knows that he even fights those who are
08:29 fighting corruption. So for the President
08:31 to make that statement, for me it was
08:33 the biggest joke of the
08:35 year. Everybody knows.
08:37 The office of the Special Prosecutor has been
08:39 set up, hasn't it?
08:41 What was the verdict?
08:43 In fact, the first person to head
08:45 that institution was from your party,
08:47 Alamisi Benz Kaiser.
08:49 Everybody knows that he appointed Alamisi,
08:51 he appointed Martin Amidu to
08:53 witch hunt enemies. And there was nothing
08:55 he could witch hunt. And in any case,
08:57 what was the verdict of Mr Martin
08:59 Amidu? The verdict was that the President was a
09:01 mother serpent for corruption. What is
09:03 the verdict of even the current, you know,
09:05 head of the...
09:09 He's allowed the processes, the law to take its course.
09:11 Sicily Adapa?
09:13 He has indicated the frustrations that he has gone
09:15 through. He has indicated the fact that the
09:17 resources and the tooling that would
09:19 ensure that he discharges his
09:21 responsibilities effectively have been
09:23 denied to him deliberately by this government.
09:25 So everybody knows, all
09:27 reputable institutions,
09:29 with the capacity to determine whether a
09:31 government is corrupt or not, the
09:33 parameter of the CDD,
09:35 the
09:37 corruption perception index,
09:39 they've all rated this government to be the most corrupt
09:41 ever in our history. What
09:43 President Muhammad, the lowest of President Muhammad
09:45 who just was in power, is what this government
09:47 or this President is celebrating.
09:49 Everybody in this country knows
09:51 that the Flax Staff House
09:53 is the seat of death for corruption.
09:55 The extent to which...
09:57 By what standards? With what
09:59 evidence are you saying that? If the Flax Staff House
10:01 would add over $800 million
10:03 to Ameri Union
10:05 that was thievery. That was not
10:07 corruption. You're taking us all the way back
10:09 to Boakye Jaku. I'm saying that...
10:11 The addition was done from the Flax Staff House.
10:13 It took the vigilance...
10:15 It was within that...
10:17 I'm saying that the addition...
10:19 I think on your same program... I know what he said
10:21 about getting calls and all that.
10:23 I know what he said about getting calls and all that.
10:25 I'm saying that that over $800 million
10:27 but for the vigilance of the
10:29 NBC members of Parliament
10:31 in the Southern Parliament, it would have been
10:33 in someone's pocket.
10:35 So I'm saying that it is very clear
10:37 that this government has perfected corruption
10:39 and frankly, President Nanado is the
10:41 lead of the choir in terms
10:43 of how this country could be...
10:45 I get that from where you sit, you would want to say that.
10:47 But I say, what are the tangibles?
10:49 What can you pin on Mr President?
10:51 I have just told you, the $800 million
10:53 was added from the Flax Staff House.
10:55 Who is the head?
10:57 And you can prove that it was Nanado who signed off on that.
10:59 Who wanted that to be done?
11:01 Seriously? No, I'm just asking you.
11:03 In a court of law,
11:05 you would have to prove it.
11:07 The President doesn't sign even letters.
11:09 Someone signs letters for and on behalf of the President.
11:11 So if the person engages in anything wrong,
11:13 who takes the responsibility?
11:15 Who does? So I'm saying that
11:17 this man, this President,
11:19 that statement was a joke.
11:21 He is the most corrupt leader ever in the history of this country.
11:23 You see, he would win Ghanians
11:25 into believing that he was coming
11:27 to fight corruption with
11:29 these fake slangs.
11:31 You know, the President in any attempt...
11:33 You see, in this country, if you speak English
11:35 in a funny way, people tend to
11:37 listen to you.
11:39 I think that's a low blow, to say that
11:41 fake slangs and all of that. The President has spoken
11:43 this way. The President has spoken this way
11:45 since we've known him.
11:47 Since the days of...
11:49 Since even when he was engaging
11:51 former Presidents. You remember when he was
11:53 in communications with us that...
11:55 But did I say... But I never say he started
11:57 the fake slanging today. I didn't say that.
11:59 What makes it fake?
12:01 Kofi Annan had worked with the United Nations for several years.
12:03 I'm saying I lived in America
12:05 for several years. He didn't come
12:07 with a fake slang. You saw, even appointees.
12:09 My good friend, what's the name?
12:11 The...
12:13 Have you watched her videos?
12:15 She's also trying to sling.
12:17 Because they believe that if you sling, the people of this country
12:19 listen. So, this
12:21 President, he's the most corrupt ever.
12:23 Tell me one single state institution
12:25 or single independent institution
12:27 with the capacity to determine
12:29 how corruption is
12:31 pervasive in our society
12:33 that hasn't said that
12:35 President Nanadu fight for corruption. It's a joke.
12:37 Look, Professor Jumobuidu,
12:39 when he was interviewed, they
12:41 asked him, the fight against
12:43 corruption by the President. You remember what he said?
12:45 He said, "It's in Tartus."
12:47 It's in Tartus.
12:49 The CD, the Afrobarometer, described
12:51 this President, this government, as the most corrupt.
12:53 In fact, we
12:55 chopped 41% under this government.
12:57 Do you think that
12:59 Mr. President...
13:01 You remember in this country,
13:03 when we were told by someone,
13:05 one of the lead candidates
13:07 for the MPP flag bearership,
13:09 Canada, Japan said, "Even as an MPP
13:11 member, for you to have access to the President,
13:13 you need to pay $20,000." What has happened
13:15 to it? The President on that day
13:17 also said that, "Oh, every allegation
13:19 of corruption has been investigated."
13:21 Let's narrow it down.
13:23 The cash for seed investigation
13:25 was done by Parliament,
13:27 not the Executive. I see you going down memory lane.
13:29 Let me do this. Let me ask the questions.
13:31 Do you feel
13:33 then that there is a disjointedness,
13:35 that there is some disconnect
13:37 as far as the reality
13:39 versus what maybe
13:41 Mr. President and those in
13:43 establishment may see? I want you to narrow it
13:45 down quickly because I want us to move on to other things.
13:47 Also to Frances
13:49 Isiem, you've made mention of her name.
13:51 You are on the Public Accounts Committee.
13:53 What exactly, if you recall,
13:55 are some of the
13:57 things she has done, the infractions?
13:59 Very quickly, because it has
14:01 been supposed that... I don't want to use
14:03 the term "swept under the carpet," but we've not
14:05 heard of this.
14:07 If it must come to the fore, I just want you
14:09 to bring it up because this could stoke a conversation
14:11 on it and we could speak
14:13 to the AG on this. It was public hearing.
14:15 The thing was done publicly
14:17 by the GTV.
14:19 And in fact... No, I'm not saying that it wasn't.
14:21 I'm just saying that since
14:23 that time, there has been no action.
14:25 I have just told you what Parliament needs to do.
14:27 Maybe someone will ask, as a member of Parliament, a member of the
14:29 committee, "What did you do?" I have told you
14:31 that after we finish
14:33 with our work, the committee
14:35 is made up of equal numbers
14:37 of NDC members and MPP members.
14:39 Of course, the chair of the committee
14:41 is an NDC member.
14:43 We all agreed unanimously
14:45 that Francis Sessiom be prosecuted,
14:47 as recommended by
14:49 the Auditor General in the Auditor General's report.
14:51 Submitted same
14:53 to plenary in Parliament.
14:55 And the 275 members
14:57 adopted the position
14:59 taken by the committee.
15:01 - So, at the committee, unanimously accepted.
15:03 - Yes. - At the plenary, unanimously accepted.
15:05 - Unanimously. Accepted that she should be prosecuted
15:07 and many others. I don't want to limit
15:09 it to her. The reason why I mention her name
15:11 because she is a political appointee.
15:13 There are other civil servants
15:15 and public servants, you see,
15:17 - What were the interventions?
15:19 - There were procurement breaches. I mean, sometimes
15:21 outright recklessness in terms of doing
15:23 things without following the law.
15:25 We have laws, financial regulations
15:27 and acts that regulate
15:29 the conduct of anybody who manages
15:31 state resources. Now, the committee
15:33 of Parliament submitted the report.
15:35 Parliament adopted the report of the
15:37 committee. We submitted
15:39 the same to the Auditor General over a year.
15:41 Over a year.
15:43 Yet, that same woman sat on
15:45 TV and says, "NBC was corrupt. People
15:47 were corrupt." I'm saying that
15:49 over a year. So, why
15:51 is the Minister for Justice
15:53 and Attorney General not willing to prosecute
15:55 - Are there any ways beyond
15:57 the fourth realm,
15:59 the media? - Yeah. - You're putting it out.
16:01 - Yeah. - We'll likely follow up on this.
16:03 Beyond what we can do,
16:05 what legally can be done
16:07 to ensure that in instances like this,
16:09 maybe, I wouldn't say force the arm of
16:11 the Attorney General, but push
16:13 for the right thing to do. - If you go to court today,
16:15 assuming, on what basis are you going to court to demand
16:17 that she should be prosecuted and
16:19 the others who were cited? The Attorney General will tell
16:21 you that they are in the process of prosecuting.
16:23 But justice is delayed, you see. Justice is denied.
16:25 Why is it taking the Attorney General
16:27 over a year and nothing is being said about it?
16:29 This is not the first time
16:31 I'm making this comment. I've been making
16:33 this comment on several platforms.
16:35 Why is the Attorney General not willing? And it is not
16:37 only Francis Sissam. Many
16:39 other public servants and civil servants.
16:41 - Why do you think? - I don't know!
16:43 I don't know! Someone should tell me.
16:45 But, for, I, I,
16:47 the only reason I can give is that because
16:49 she is an MPP activist.
16:51 And again, that defeats... - But that would not be justice.
16:53 - Well, but, is there justice
16:55 in this country? - Is there not?
16:57 - There isn't. - There isn't?
16:59 - There isn't. If there was
17:01 justice in this country, I don't think that
17:03 those people would not be prosecuted.
17:05 The President
17:07 and the government is willing to prosecute
17:09 people when they have interest.
17:11 But where they are not interested,
17:13 they don't give a hoot about any prosecution.
17:15 Because, I have just asked,
17:17 look, when we were taking the decision
17:19 to adopt this report at the committee,
17:21 there wasn't any objection
17:23 from our friends from the MPP. No.
17:25 On the committee. When we brought
17:27 the report to Parliament and debated it,
17:29 at the end of the day, it was
17:31 unanimously agreed that
17:33 she and many others who were
17:35 cited by the Auditor-General be prosecuted.
17:37 Over a year, why is the Minister
17:39 for Justice and Attorney-General not willing
17:41 to prosecute them? Why?
17:43 [Music]
17:45 (dramatic music)