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00:00 [MUSIC]
00:10 [FOREIGN]
00:20 >> Paul, how are you today?
00:34 >> Doing amazing.
00:35 We don't have a second to waste, though.
00:36 We have too much to talk about.
00:38 Let's just get into it.
00:39 [MUSIC]
00:43 [FOREIGN]
00:53 >> So, recent reports shows that Meta is working on a new VR feature for
00:58 avatar legs.
00:59 But let me ask you that, what this has to do with Jarvis Johnson's statements?
01:04 Like, what's the link?
01:05 Tell me more about it.
01:06 >> Look, I think it's so interesting because you can see that the avatar
01:10 legs feature is available for all the avatar legs.
01:13 So, if you go to the avatar legs page, you can see that there's a link.
01:16 And if you go to the avatar legs page, you can see that there's a link.
01:20 What's the link? Tell me more about it.
01:21 >> Look, I think it's so interesting because there's things around VR and
01:26 metaverses that you wouldn't think are complicated problems.
01:30 But in fact, they are, right?
01:31 Like, how do you simulate your legs in a virtual world when the only
01:36 interface with that virtual world is a headset, right?
01:39 So there's this complexity around making legs for
01:42 avatars that you wouldn't think of normally, but that does exist.
01:46 Now, I don't know if introducing legs is gonna be the thing that puts
01:51 horizon worlds from the few thousand users it has today to millions of users.
01:55 I don't think so.
01:56 But it's these kinds of problems that need to be solved along the way to getting to
02:00 that fantasy metaverse that we all dream of.
02:04 >> And now let's go to Sonny.
02:05 [FOREIGN]
02:16 So Sonny has revealed some features of PlayStation Portal.
02:22 But on the other hand,
02:24 Qualcomm revealed a mobile gaming platform for a Snapdragon G.
02:28 I feel some sort of competition between Sonny and Qualcomm.
02:31 Tell me more about it.
02:33 >> Yeah, I don't know if it's competition as much as,
02:35 clearly the handheld gaming segment is getting very hot, right?
02:39 It used to be just the Steam Deck and the Nintendo Switch.
02:42 Then you had the Asus ROG Ally.
02:45 Now you have the Lenovo Legion Go, and you're gonna have the PlayStation Portal.
02:49 You're gonna have half a dozen already handheld gaming devices.
02:53 >> That's why there is a big competition around the console field.
02:57 >> Absolutely, but this could be the next battlefield for consoles, right?
02:59 Cuz the console sitting in your living room,
03:02 I think is sort of a battle that's, is that a stalemate, right?
03:06 Xbox and Sony are sort of always about 50/50.
03:09 With the handheld market now, it's game on.
03:12 It's an entirely new battlefield.
03:14 And I think it's exciting to see because portable gaming is great for
03:17 a lot of people.
03:18 And if it's a better experience than your phone, which it is,
03:21 I think this is a good thing.
03:22 >> Time to tell us what will happen, but now let's see another story.
03:25 >> [FOREIGN]
03:35 >> So the senior director of eSports
03:40 operations at Riot Games stated that
03:45 League of Legends eSports is not generating profits.
03:54 Why do you think this happened?
03:55 >> This is surprising, I think, for a lot of people.
03:58 Because Riot is seen as the gold standard of eSports operators.
04:03 League of Legends is seen as sort of the gold standard of eSports.
04:05 >> Exactly. >> And when that's not profitable,
04:08 I think it's scary when you look at all the other eSports to think,
04:11 how much money are the others losing?
04:13 Now I think Riot made two fatal mistakes around their eSports in recent history.
04:17 One, they hired a lot of people from Activision Blizzard,
04:20 which I think was a mistake because those eSports leagues were not doing well
04:23 to begin with.
04:24 But I think more importantly, the product got confusing.
04:28 It got too complicated.
04:29 You have so many League of Legends, different geographies, leagues, right?
04:33 Different regions that are competing.
04:35 Someone who just wants to follow and cheer for their team.
04:38 It actually got complex.
04:40 And I think the second you make it a little complex,
04:42 you lose that mass appeal that League of Legends has always had.
04:46 And so I don't think it's too far gone.
04:48 League is still the best eSport, biggest eSport out there.
04:51 Obviously, there's sponsors like MasterCard who are still doubling down
04:54 on League of Legends eSports.
04:56 And I think it will come back.
04:57 I think it will be profitable one day.
04:58 I think, Paul, you're a big fan of League of Legends.
05:01 I am.
05:02 Now, let's see another story.
05:03 Xbox CEO Phil Spencer said that mid-range updates
05:09 will bring a number of obstacles for developers.
05:12 And that comes after Spencer's comments in June
05:16 that he doesn't think there's a need for a new Xbox Series X device.
05:21 So, Xbox head Phil Spencer said there's no need for a new Xbox Series.
05:26 Do you agree with him?
05:28 Yeah, so this is all coming out of this rumor
05:30 that PlayStation is going to do a PS5 Pro,
05:34 like a slightly upgraded version of the PS5.
05:37 Not a PlayStation 6, not a full refresh, not an entirely new console,
05:42 but a slight mid-cycle upgrade.
05:45 Now, Phil Spencer on this rumor says, well,
05:48 we don't need to do that at Xbox.
05:50 It'll just make it confusing for our developers.
05:52 We don't need a mid-cycle refresh.
05:55 And I think that's interesting.
05:56 I don't know if it's Xbox and Microsoft sort of conceding
05:59 that PlayStation has won this round of the console wars.
06:03 They're not interested in losing more money on hardware.
06:05 I think Microsoft and Xbox sees their future in software and services.
06:10 But I also think it's a little bit disingenuous for Phil
06:14 to be saying this when Xbox already has two consoles.
06:17 They have a Series X and a Series S, which already makes it a little bit more
06:21 complicated for developers.
06:23 So I could maybe understand why they don't
06:24 want to introduce a third console that developers have to build for.
06:28 And now, Paul, let's continue our chat with our guest for today.
06:32 Absolutely.
06:33 [SPEAKING ARABIC]
06:35 [MUSIC PLAYING]
06:39 [SPEAKING ARABIC]
06:51 Hello, Seth, and welcome to Game Changers.
06:52 How are you?
06:53 Great.
06:54 Thank you very much for having me.
06:55 First of all, let me ask you, how is building a game studio focused on VR
07:00 is different than building a game studio focused
07:02 on PC and console platforms?
07:05 Great question.
07:05 So for VR, it's a lot harder to develop for.
07:09 First of all, you have two eyes, right?
07:11 So we have to double the frame rate of what you would normally see.
07:14 And then, for example, when we take in really high quality human capital
07:19 programmers who have been doing something for, let's say, 20 years,
07:22 we bring them in, and they'll generally have
07:24 worked in the video game industry or something like aerospace.
07:28 We bring them in, and then we have to train them for three to six months
07:31 to get them ready to build for VR, because it's a lot more difficult to build for.
07:34 But the experiences are just magical.
07:36 And that's how we handle it at Servios.
07:38 Seth, talk to me a little bit about VR gaming in general.
07:43 And what do you think is keeping VR gaming from hitting
07:47 that sort of mass market adoption, right?
07:49 The hundreds of millions or billions of players in VR.
07:53 Yeah, so I think when VR started, it was very difficult to get in.
07:58 You literally had to drill holes in your walls, right?
08:01 And I mean, I remember one time I was about to drill holes in my walls
08:05 to put in a VR setup, and my wife came in and said, that's the end of that, right?
08:10 So first, it was that, and then it was form factor, and there was also expense.
08:15 Now, prices are coming down rapidly.
08:18 It's very accessible with devices like the MetaQuest Pro.
08:23 And also, one thing is, you don't buy a piece of hardware for the chips inside it.
08:31 You buy it because you want to play a particular game.
08:33 And so what you're seeing now is games that are phenomenal to play,
08:36 like our game Creed, which is number one on Sony PlayStation VR 2.
08:41 That game is a phenomenal game.
08:43 And when you play games like that, that makes you want to buy that hardware.
08:48 So Apple, obviously, has entered the VR/AR fray.
08:51 They've announced their headset.
08:53 What impact do you think that's going to have on this segment of the industry?
08:57 I think it's phenomenal, because first of all,
08:59 there's no better company in the world to get a marketing message across.
09:02 People understand what spatial computing is now, right?
09:06 Why it's compelling.
09:07 And it can change every use case in your life.
09:10 And when you combine that with artificial intelligence,
09:13 it's nothing but magic.
09:14 It's just incredible.
09:16 So Seth, let me ask you that.
09:17 How significant do you think VR esports will be in the next few years?
09:22 I think it's incredibly significant, and here's why.
09:25 When you look at normal esports, you have people behind a keyboard.
09:28 It's not exciting to watch, right?
09:30 And the whole point of esports is to have as much fun watching it
09:34 as to have playing it.
09:35 When you play one of our games, like Creed, it's actual boxing.
09:38 It's physical, right?
09:40 And the actual amount of velocity and weight you put behind that punch,
09:45 that's all mathematically there.
09:47 And it's much more fun to blend the real world and the physical world
09:52 together with that.
09:54 Thank you so much, Seth, for your input and for being with us here
09:58 in Game Changers.
09:59 Thank you for having me.
10:00 I'm excited for your Aliens game.
10:02 Oh, yeah.
10:03 That one is phenomenal.
10:04 It's absolutely unbelievable.
10:06 Should be fun.
10:06 Oh, it's very scary.
10:08 Thank you, Seth.
10:09 Thank you so much.
10:10 Thank you.
10:11 [SPEAKING ARABIC]
10:13 [SPEAKING ARABIC]
10:14 So there is a poll on X.
10:36 It says, do you think video games events are getting enough attention?
10:41 The first option is yes, then no, and needs more advertising.
10:45 Look, I think it's interesting.
10:47 I'm surprised 50% of people think it doesn't get enough attention.
10:51 My theory here is we have such hardcore video gaming fans in our audience
10:58 that they all want video game events to get more attention,
11:00 regardless of whether they're getting a lot or not.
11:03 Now, I do think events-- there are a lot of them,
11:05 especially in the Middle East-- that are focused on video games,
11:08 whether it's a business-focused event or more like an e-sports tournament.
11:11 The example I would give here, though-- and it's a recent one,
11:14 and it's related to X-- is Elon Musk was actually just recently
11:18 at the Valorant championships.
11:21 Was actually attended them in person.
11:23 And so when the richest man in the world, maybe one of the most famous people
11:27 in the world, is at a Valorant e-sports event,
11:30 I would argue that event's probably getting a good amount of attention.
11:33 It's definitely not hiding in obscurity.
11:36 Of course, Paul. We're seeing this from the huge investments
11:38 also around video game industry as well.
11:41 No question.
11:41 But I think that what's insightful here is that relative to how big
11:46 the video game industry is, it doesn't still have the attention it deserves.
11:51 Music, movies, TV, all these things get more attention,
11:54 but the money being spent on gaming is way, way higher.
11:57 Paul, I really enjoyed this episode.
11:59 We covered a lot of interesting news stories.
12:01 Do you have any last comment you'd like to say?
12:03 It's always fun doing this with you.
12:05 And I love getting through news like this where we're talking about things
12:08 that are forward-looking, like VR and things like that.
12:11 Thank you.
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