00:00 As a result, I went to prison and I don't believe I would have ever gone to prison if
00:04 they wouldn't testify and just tell the truth.
00:06 Billy Walters is the author of Gambler Secrets from a Life at Risk and also a member of the
00:12 first ever Hall of Fame class for sports gambling.
00:15 Billy, it's great to talk with you.
00:17 The book is incredible.
00:19 Your life, incredible.
00:21 Your success betting on sports, incredible.
00:24 So I got to ask, has Hollywood been itching or reaching out to you because this book needs
00:29 to be turned into a movie?
00:32 Well thank you for your kind words and it's a pleasure to be here.
00:35 Yeah, we've talked to a few people whether it's going to happen or not, I don't know,
00:39 but my main focus is to get the book out and don't worry about anything else that comes
00:46 later on.
00:47 Your relationship with Phil Mickelson, it's been very public.
00:51 You dedicate an entire chapter to him called Lefty and Me and you don't really have a problem
00:56 with how much he's bet.
00:57 You say it's around a billion dollars based on his annual revenue and his net worth.
01:02 You don't have a problem with the amount, but you do have, it seems like a problem with
01:06 his moral compass.
01:07 He took $200 million to join Live Golf, didn't testify on your behalf when you really think
01:14 it could have went a long way.
01:16 He tried approaching you about betting on a tournament that he was involved in.
01:21 And you say in the book that the public is starting to see a side of him that people
01:25 on the tour, the PGA Tour, or others on the inside have always known.
01:30 So I have to ask, what is that side of him?
01:33 Well, I mean, first and foremost, Phil's a very small part of my book.
01:37 These two chapters are 28 and the only reason Phil's in the book, it's not because of our
01:43 gambling relationship we had.
01:45 We were partners together, betting on sports together for five years.
01:48 We were friends for eight years.
01:50 And frankly, I thought we were friends.
01:52 And I kind of pride myself on being a good judge of character.
01:56 And I think it's probably what hurt me more than anything.
01:59 When it came time to come forward and do nothing but simply tell the truth in regards to a
02:06 court case that I had in New York where insider trading, Phil didn't do that.
02:11 He allowed me to go up there without testifying as he had told the FBI on two previous occasions.
02:18 And as a result, I went to prison.
02:20 And I don't believe I would have ever gone to prison if Phil hadn't testified and just
02:23 told the truth.
02:25 And unfortunately, when I was in prison, we had a family tragedy.
02:29 My wife, my daughter committed suicide.
02:31 So the stuff that I have in Phil in there in regards to Phil, I owe it to the reader
02:38 to be able to explain how we met, what our relationship was.
02:42 And the gambling part that's in there is only in there for one reason, and that's to explain
02:46 what our relationship was.
02:48 And the other part is, is obviously for the reader to see, you know, the amounts that
02:55 were involved.
02:56 I think from a credibility standpoint, that's the reason I like Charles Barkley.
02:59 I may not agree with everything Charles says, but when Charles says something, I believe
03:03 him.
03:04 The records that I put in the book were our five-year partnership.
03:07 We have documented records on every bet we've made, who we made it with, when we made it,
03:11 whether we won or whether we lost.
03:12 We keep those for tax purposes.
03:14 As far as him trying to bet on the Ryder Cup, there's no question he tried to bet on the
03:18 Ryder Cup.
03:19 He called me, and when he called me, I was shocked.
03:21 I said, "You lost your mind."
03:22 I told him, I said, "Don't you know what happened to Pete Rhoades?"
03:25 I said, "You know, you're looked at as a modern-day Arnold Palmer.
03:28 You would risk your entire career to do this."
03:31 I said, "I don't want any part of it."
03:33 He never made the bet.
03:35 Prior to that, we never had one discussion about any golf betting or anything else or
03:39 anyone else betting on golf.
03:41 After that, we never had another discussion.
03:43 And he never made the bet.
03:45 And that was exactly what happened in regards to that.
03:50 What do you think about these NFL players getting suspended for placing bets, whether
03:55 it's on their team, on football, college basketball?
03:59 The NFL very much in bed with a lot of the sportsbook operators now, but yet they're
04:04 coming down really hard on some of their players.
04:06 Well, with all due respect, I think the league's got a responsibility.
04:10 These guys, the majority of them, these kids are coming straight out of college.
04:14 And I think the teams, I think the league, I think they need to really sit down and educate
04:19 these young men and explain to them the ramifications of what they're doing.
04:22 And I don't think they need to have one meeting with them.
04:24 I think this is something that needs to happen on a regular basis.
04:26 You've got to understand, the majority of these people are kids.
04:30 And everybody wants to bet on themselves.
04:31 We're all competitive.
04:32 I mean, whatever sports you're involved with, they simply don't understand the ramifications
04:37 or risk in their career.
04:38 They also, I don't think, understand what their obligation is to their teammates and
04:43 the sports league that they play for.
04:46 But I think the majority of that is education.
04:49 And I think that people need to spend some time with them on an ongoing basis to continue
04:56 to remind them of that.
04:57 From what I know about this, the amount of money they bet was nothing anyway.
05:02 These people make plenty of money.
05:03 And I don't think they had any idea that they were going to risk their career doing this.
05:06 None of them would do it.
05:07 The thing that concerns me more than anything is the NCAA.
05:11 You really got kids there.
05:12 The good news about sports betting is it's very easy to see if, in fact, someone is doing
05:18 something to manipulate the line or to bet significant amounts of money.
05:23 It's not like Wall Street.
05:24 First of all, whoever you bet with, they got 100% of your information.
05:28 Second of all, if someone goes in and tries to bet a large amount of money, the line's
05:33 going to move.
05:34 The market's much, much smaller.
05:36 But if it happens, something out of the ordinary, some person who is not normally a big bettor,
05:41 they come in and a significant amount of money gets bet, the line moves.
05:46 People are looking at this.
05:47 They're looking for the source of who made the bet.
05:48 That's out of the ordinary.
05:50 And the second time the guy comes in and the same thing happens, they may get down for
05:54 two or three bets.
05:55 They're going to get nailed.
05:56 It's happened every time in sports.
05:59 Most gamblers, basically, they've been the ones that have uncovered these scandals in
06:08 sports.
06:09 That's why sports are so clean.
06:10 Now, clearly, now you've got legalized gambling.
06:14 You've got kids involved that need counseling.
06:19 But I can assure you one thing.
06:21 Because of the nature of the sports market and the size of it, no one's going to bet
06:25 a significant amount of money on sports and get by with it for any period of time if they're
06:31 doing something they shouldn't be doing.
06:33 You had 36 straight years of beating the sports books.
06:37 It's legendary.
06:38 People don't even have a week of beating the sports book.
06:41 36 years of doing it is incredible.
06:43 Along the way, you've had some bad beats, some bad weeks, some bad months, but always
06:47 have come out on top at the end.
06:50 What is the mentality of trying to get through those slumps and just sticking to your process?
06:55 Well, first of all, I've been very fortunate.
06:58 I've worked with some of the smartest people that you can imagine over those years.
07:04 I've spent millions of dollars on it every year in research and development to stay ahead
07:09 of the game.
07:10 But if you understand anything about whatever you invest in, you may have a mathematical
07:17 advantage, but you go for a period of time and you can lose.
07:23 If you don't have a money management system, you play too high from your bankroll, you
07:27 can get broke and still have the best of something.
07:30 So you've got to really have discipline.
07:32 You've got to stick to what you know.
07:34 Betting on sports and winning consistently is much more difficult than investing in the
07:38 stock market.
07:39 Of course, investing in the stock market requires that discipline also.
07:47 Betting on sports is, you've got to have a lot of discipline.
07:50 You've got to believe in what you're doing and sticking with it.
07:52 But you've also got to continually get better at what you're doing because the people you're
07:56 competing with, they're all getting smarter.
07:59 And it's a competitive environment.
08:01 But over the years, I've spent millions and millions and millions of dollars to stay ahead
08:06 of the game.
08:08 There's a great story in your book that you bet on the direction of which way a bird would
08:14 fly off a wire.
08:16 The odd thing to bet on.
08:17 What's the strangest thing you ever took money on or you ever took action on?
08:23 That probably was it.
08:24 I didn't take any action on it.
08:25 I owned a bookmaker.
08:26 I owned him more than I could pay him.
08:28 He came in to collect and I was working at a car lot at the time and I've been watching
08:32 this bird for a long time.
08:35 And I knew the bird went that way every time.
08:37 So of course, anything can happen.
08:40 But I owned a bookmaker for $4,000.
08:41 I only had two.
08:42 I was too light.
08:44 So I ended up getting him to bet me on the bird.
08:48 And anyway, the way it went the way I thought it was going to go.
08:52 And I got my package back.
08:54 But that was probably one of the dumbest things I've ever been on.
08:56 But I've been on some pretty stupid things.
09:00 Madras Mack, I'm sure you're familiar with his name.
09:03 He makes some big, sizable bets.
09:05 Kind of offsets it with his business promotion.
09:07 He makes big bets, doesn't always win.
09:10 You have any advice for him?
09:12 I really don't.
09:13 I think he's more of a businessman.
09:14 I think he's doing these for promotions.
09:15 I think he's got a lot of publicity.
09:16 And if that's what he's doing, then go for it.
09:20 I think it's good.
09:21 And I think it's great that he's doing what he's doing as long as that's what he's doing.
09:26 I'm sure that's what he's doing.
09:27 It's his business.
09:28 And so I'm a big Madras Mack fan.
09:33 Michael Jordan, also another notorious gambler.
09:36 You ever meet MJ in the golf course or in the casino?
09:40 I play the cards around the golf.
09:42 It was in the book with MJ.
09:44 I'm a huge, huge fan of his.
09:46 And we played a real friendly round of golf for a hundred bucks.
09:49 And we had a great time.
09:51 I had a great time with him.
09:52 He's one of the most unassuming guys I've ever met.
09:56 We shared a story that Eastern North Carolina, up in Kentucky, we shared a story of working
10:01 in the back of the box together.
10:03 But that was a one and only.
10:06 But I'm a huge, huge fan of his.
10:08 All right, my last question for you.
10:10 You've been somewhat shy, maybe even distrusting of the media.
10:14 You admit to trying to stay out of the spotlight.
10:17 But you also write about seizing every opportunity to leave a legacy that might inspire others.
10:23 So Billy Walters, what do you want your legacy to be?
10:27 Well, I want my legacy to be, look, you know, my word was my bond.
10:33 I did what I said I would do.
10:36 I helped others.
10:37 The sports betting consultant, P.D.I.
10:39 putting there, I think that's going to, I don't think, I know it's going to help anyone
10:43 who bets sports.
10:45 And hopefully it's something they'll be able to enjoy for a long, long period of time and
10:49 enhance their enjoyment of sports.
10:52 But more importantly, like I said, it's important to me that people respect me as far as being
11:01 a man of his word and helping others.
11:04 Billy Walters is the author of "Secrets from a Life at Risk."
11:08 Whether you bet on sports, love to be competitive, you're an entrepreneur, rags to riches, if
11:14 you love all that stuff, this book is for you.
11:17 Absolutely incredible.
11:18 Billy Walters, pleasure to talk to you.
11:20 It was my pleasure.
11:21 Thank you for having me.
11:22 I appreciate it.
11:22 I appreciate it.
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