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The Big Stories || Child Trafficking: Challenging heights rescues children being enslaved on Volta Lake - JoyNews

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Transcript
00:00:00 In the heart of Ghana, a silent struggle unfolds as countless children toil in hazardous conditions
00:00:07 trapped in the clutches of child labor.
00:00:10 The Vota League and Yeji, very good source of life and livelihood,
00:00:20 have also become a grim symbol of exploitation.
00:00:26 The reality of child labor is that the child labor remains a harsh reality in Ghana,
00:00:33 with many children forced into hazardous work environments instead of experiencing the right
00:00:40 to education and a nurturing childhood. 17-year-old Richard Aja has been a victim
00:00:48 of hazardous work on the Vota League.
00:00:51 I was a child when I was in school.
00:00:54 I was told that I was going to be a teacher.
00:00:58 I was told that I was going to be a teacher.
00:01:02 When I was with my uncle, I was schooling, but I wasn't doing well with my studies.
00:01:06 My uncle then told me to leave school and wear katzos because that would be profitable.
00:01:12 So I dropped out of school and took up the katzo job.
00:01:16 Then my mother intervened and said she would not allow me to do that kind of job,
00:01:21 and so she would come for me.
00:01:23 She tried coming for me twice, but was unsuccessful.
00:01:43 When my mother was not successful, I decided to run away.
00:01:46 They pursued me, but they didn't see me.
00:01:49 However, I couldn't succeed in my attempt.
00:01:52 I came back home, and so they asked me to return to school so during the vacation I could go to my mom.
00:01:59 I then returned to my mom at the age and never returned to my uncle.
00:02:03 When I was with my uncle, I was not able to go to school.
00:02:07 I was not able to go to school because my uncle was not able to pay for my tuition.
00:02:13 My uncle was not able to pay for my tuition, so I had to go to my mom.
00:02:17 When I came back home, my mom said, "Oma, I am not able to go to school because my husband is not here."
00:02:22 I was not able to go to school.
00:02:24 These children endure grueling hours, dangerous conditions, and the denial of their basic human rights.
00:02:31 We sometimes cast the ropes down and then tie them around a tree.
00:02:45 We come out of the water after that.
00:02:48 Sometimes we are met with monstrous winds.
00:02:51 Some are able to survive. If luck eludes you, then that becomes your fate.
00:02:56 Some die in the process, and for others, luck smiles on them and they are rescued by another canoe.
00:03:03 Isaac Kwe paints a story grim, pain and depression.
00:03:16 The first day we arrived at Reweta, it was 7pm in the evening.
00:03:26 The house had to go for fishing.
00:03:31 We came back around 4am.
00:03:37 Then we went again.
00:03:40 We came back around 12pm.
00:03:43 Then we went again.
00:03:46 We came back around 5pm.
00:03:52 We rested for two hours.
00:03:56 We rested for five to seven hours.
00:04:00 I asked myself, "Is this the work I am supposed to do here?"
00:04:06 In my place, if you go in the morning, in the evening you will rest.
00:04:11 But this place, it seems it is different.
00:04:14 So out of the 24 hours, I just rested for only two hours.
00:04:21 From five to seven, only two hours.
00:04:25 Kwesi was once trapped in the horrifying clutches of human trafficking.
00:04:31 His life was marked by hardship and exploitation, forced to work long hours in hazardous conditions
00:04:41 on fishing boats instead of experiencing the joys of childhood.
00:04:47 However, through dedicated effort and the transformative power of education, Kwesi's
00:04:54 life has taken a remarkable turn.
00:04:58 When Kwesi was rescued from the shackles of trafficking, he was placed in the care of
00:05:04 Challenging Heights, an organization committed to rehabilitating and reintegrating trafficking
00:05:12 survivors.
00:05:13 The organization not only focused on meeting Kwesi's immediate needs, but also recognized
00:05:21 the pivotal role of education in breaking the cycle of poverty and exploitation.
00:05:28 As he immersed himself in learning, his passion for education ignited.
00:05:34 From being denied the opportunity to hold a pencil, he now reveled in the joy of reading,
00:05:41 writing, and exploring new knowledge.
00:05:45 Today, Kwesi stands as a shining example of resilience and the transformative power of
00:05:52 education.
00:05:53 He has blossomed into a determined, compassionate, and accomplished young individual eager to
00:06:02 make a positive impact on the world.
00:06:10 At Challenging Heights, Kwesi is now an employee, a teacher, and a house parent helping to shape
00:06:19 and mold the life of the less privileged in society.
00:06:24 I remember we went for the fishing and then the same net caught under the tree and then
00:06:37 they asked me to dive.
00:06:41 When I dive, I nearly die over there.
00:06:46 We have some hook.
00:06:49 If you check this place, you can see.
00:06:59 I have many marks in this place.
00:07:03 So I just cut the hook so that I can save my life.
00:07:20 Amazed in this darkness, one organization shines as a beacon of hope.
00:07:26 Challenging Heights, a dedicated child rights organization, has undertaken the formidable
00:07:31 task of rescuing children from slavery on the Vorta Lake.
00:07:38 Challenging Heights started 80 years ago.
00:07:41 I was still working with Barclays Bank and I felt that there was a need for me to address
00:07:47 issues of my childhood.
00:07:48 Myself, I was a victim of the situation.
00:07:49 I've been working on Lake Vorta for a cumulative period of seven years, back and forth.
00:07:50 I started school when I was 13 years old.
00:08:07 I was a student and I could not even write A, B, C, D or 1, 2, 3.
00:08:25 Having to support myself through school from that age.
00:08:26 When I eventually made it through education to the University of Ghana, I got a job with
00:08:27 Barclays Bank.
00:08:28 I started earning income.
00:08:29 I felt that we should not allow children to go through the pain and abuse situations that
00:08:40 I went through.
00:08:44 So I started Challenging Heights basically to address the issues of my childhood because
00:08:48 I felt that the pains were too much growing up in those fishing communities and working
00:08:55 as a fisherman.
00:08:57 And I also felt that never again should we allow any children to go through the situation
00:09:01 that I went through.
00:09:02 So I started Challenging Heights to create a platform to allow children to be children
00:09:07 again and to restore child rules to those whose child rules have been destroyed.
00:09:14 So that's how Challenging Heights started.
00:09:16 It started from my story of pain to a story where I became a banker.
00:09:24 I started with a small business and wanted to address the issues.
00:09:27 The pervasive issue of child labor in Ghana highlights the relentless efforts of Challenging
00:09:33 Heights to bring freedom and a brighter future to these innocent souls.
00:09:39 Most of these children, about 80% or more of the children that we rescue from Lake Volta
00:09:47 have never gone to school.
00:09:48 And we would have sent them to school for the first time.
00:09:52 So that is a very big motivation for me.
00:09:55 The relief that comes to the children, the joy that comes to the parents, and the prospect
00:10:03 that this work has for the children's future.
00:10:06 And they being able to go to school, getting employable skills, and being able to have
00:10:12 life and livelihoods, being able to fend for themselves and their families.
00:10:18 Challenging Heights, a leading child rights organization in Ghana, has taken up the odious
00:10:23 task of rescuing children from the clutches of slavery on the Volta Lake.
00:10:30 Founded by James Kofi Annan, a former child slave himself, Challenging Heights tirelessly
00:10:36 works to rescue, rehabilitate, and reintegrate these children into society.
00:10:43 So far in our history, in terms of actual victims of trafficking and slavery, we've
00:10:52 rescued almost 1,800 children.
00:11:00 That's different from the several hundreds of children that we have supported, who were
00:11:07 vulnerable, were not victims of trafficking, but we supported.
00:11:12 But in terms of those who were actually trafficked or used in waste forms of child labor or forced
00:11:19 labor, we've rescued over 1,800 children.
00:11:27 As some of the children who we rescued, we find that they are virtually destroyed.
00:11:32 We have rescued some children with hepatitis B, end stages.
00:11:42 We've rescued some children with typhoid, rescued some children with all manner of diseases.
00:11:51 Malaria, skin diseases, skin patches, eye diseases, ear impairment.
00:12:02 Very, very often, with some fluid dripping out of their ears, we rescue children that
00:12:11 even if you put fire on their palm, they won't feel it because of the hardened palm as a
00:12:21 result of the work that they were doing.
00:12:25 We've rescued children who had scales, virtually scales on their skins.
00:12:34 When they scratched their body, you see scales coming, like as if they are fish.
00:12:42 And I had the same situation when I was a child working on the lake.
00:12:48 If I scratched my body, you see scales coming out.
00:12:55 Rescued children who could not hear anything.
00:13:01 Rescued children who had vengeance, pains in their eyes, pains in their faces.
00:13:08 Children who wish other children died.
00:13:12 Children who wish children of their masters died.
00:13:18 They were ready to kill the children of their masters.
00:13:23 Children were ready to kill their masters.
00:13:28 The situation we are talking about is a situation where children were turned into breadwinners
00:13:39 for themselves, for their families, and for other people they don't know.
00:13:47 So when we are talking about trafficking on lake water, we are talking about a human rights
00:13:53 issue.
00:13:54 But also we are talking about issues that border on security and safety.
00:13:59 The mission extends beyond rescue operations, as they also advocate for policy reforms to
00:14:06 raise awareness and empower communities to combat child labor.
00:14:11 Children who hitherto were deprived of education now have the benefit of receiving education
00:14:17 from facilities put up by Challenging Heights.
00:14:28 Challenging Heights operates daring rescue missions infiltrating the treacherous waters
00:14:35 of the Volta Lake to free children from slavery.
00:14:39 Once rescued, the organization provides comprehensive support including shelter, health care, counseling,
00:14:49 and access to education.
00:14:51 Through a holistic approach, they aim to heal the physical and psychological scars afflicted
00:14:58 upon these children, allowing them to regain their lost childhood and reclaim their dreams.
00:15:04 Usually when we rescue these children, we have a rehabilitation center that we put them
00:15:11 in.
00:15:14 The recovery center looks at the psychosocial support for them.
00:15:20 The recovery center looks at nutritional support, medical support, because these children come
00:15:28 with a lot of issues.
00:15:30 It looks at all those things and addresses them.
00:15:34 Provide medical care, provide food, provide counseling support, provide literacy and educational
00:15:45 support for them, take them to school.
00:15:50 And after some time, when we have been able to help them restore from the pain that they've
00:15:57 gone through, we reintegrate them to communities and their families.
00:16:02 And we continue to support them from there, taking some to school, others to apprenticeship,
00:16:10 depending on the situation of the child.
00:16:13 And now we are even supporting some all the way to the university, because we want to
00:16:19 raise an army of children who have been affected by trafficking, who would then become advocates
00:16:26 for the issues that we are dealing with.
00:16:29 So we are now supporting some who are in the university.
00:16:34 Through community education programs, vocational training, and income generating initiatives,
00:16:40 the organization empowers families to break the cycle of poverty and exploitation, providing
00:16:47 sustainable alternatives to child labor.
00:16:50 So globally, about a decade ago, we used to have 245 million children in child labor,
00:16:58 according to the ILO.
00:17:00 Now by 2016, the figure has reduced from 245 million to 151 million children in child labor.
00:17:12 Unfortunately, as of now, we have reversed the trend to 160 million children being in
00:17:20 child labor.
00:17:21 So almost 9 million children have been added to the stock of children who are in child
00:17:26 labor.
00:17:27 So that impacts a lot, you know, everywhere.
00:17:29 I mean, these figures are coming from different countries.
00:17:33 But in Ghana, we were doing much better at a point, because we know that in the face
00:17:40 of the COVID pandemic, when children, you know, were not in school, they were in homes
00:17:46 and schools were closed, it presented a lot more vulnerabilities.
00:17:52 And that's why I'm seeing a lot of increase in the numbers.
00:17:56 Just imagine on Lake Volta, along the Lake Volta, we did a report last year that said
00:18:01 that 60% of all children living there were found in child labor.
00:18:06 So that is the kind of situation that we are dealing with.
00:18:10 Nationally, I've said that we are 21% children who are in child labor between the ages of
00:18:16 five and 17.
00:18:18 But the figure is more even staggering other places in this country.
00:18:22 In the northern Ghana, we are 33% of all children.
00:18:25 I was even about to reference that.
00:18:27 About 33%.
00:18:28 33% of all children in the northern region who are in child labor.
00:18:33 In fact, in the Upper West Region, we are 44% of all children between the ages of five
00:18:39 and 17 who are in child labor.
00:18:42 And the shocking thing is that when it goes to the farming areas, the cocoa growing areas,
00:18:48 the agricultural areas in general, we have 79% of all children between the ages of five
00:18:56 and 17 who are in child labor.
00:18:59 419,254 children aged five to 17 years were engaged in economic activities during the
00:19:08 2021 Population and Housing Census.
00:19:12 76,439 children aged five to nine years.
00:19:18 153,189 aged 10 to 14 years.
00:19:23 And 189,626 aged 15 to 17 years.
00:19:29 According to the Ghana Statistical Service, nationally, 153,773 children aged five to
00:19:38 17 years engaged in economic activity had never attended school.
00:19:43 Out of this number, 37,963 children were five to nine years.
00:19:51 The 14-year-old forgave, but for the intervention of challenging height, she wouldn't have
00:19:56 known where to be.
00:19:58 (Gabe speaking in foreign language)
00:20:03 (Gabe speaking in foreign language)
00:20:08 (Gabe speaking in foreign language)
00:20:13 (Gabe speaking in foreign language)
00:20:18 (Gabe speaking in foreign language)
00:20:23 (Gabe speaking in foreign language)
00:20:28 (Gabe speaking in foreign language)
00:20:33 (Gabe speaking in foreign language)
00:20:38 Challenging Heights collaborate with government agencies, international organizations, and
00:20:43 local stakeholders to advocate policy reforms and strengthen the legal framework against
00:20:49 child labor.
00:20:50 Their relentless advocacy efforts aim to create an environment that protects children from
00:20:57 exploitation, holds perpetrators accountable, and provides opportunities for their holistic
00:21:03 development.
00:21:04 We enacted the Children's Act in 1998.
00:21:09 The Children's Act spells out what child labor is and who is supposed to work at what point.
00:21:16 It is not acceptable in any shape or form that a child below the age of 18 will engage
00:21:24 in hazardous work.
00:21:26 Hazardous work includes fishing, mining, and forced prostitution.
00:21:32 So these are all things that have been defined already.
00:21:36 And in Ghana, we have the hazardous work framework that defines what a child can do and what
00:21:42 a child cannot do.
00:21:43 Now, if you don't invest well, and when I say investment, I mean funding for the state
00:21:49 institutions such as the Child Labor Unit, the Children's Department, the Department
00:21:55 of Social Welfare, et cetera, they are not going to be able to do their work.
00:22:00 If you just imagine a ministry department that in a whole year is giving less than $200,000
00:22:10 to fight against a situation where it's endemic.
00:22:14 In Ghana, we are talking about 21% of children's population between the ages of 5 and 17 all
00:22:22 be in child labor.
00:22:24 Being height and wavering commitments has yielded inspiring success stories.
00:22:31 Former child slaves have transformed into empowered advocates, actively participating
00:22:37 in the organization's outreach programs and raising awareness about child labor.
00:22:43 When I grew up small, like from 15, like from 12 to 13, you have to work with them.
00:22:53 So sometimes I used to dive.
00:22:56 When I grew up, I used to dive.
00:22:58 Like I used to do so many things because there's a lot of things over there.
00:23:05 And I quite remember that time they opened the dam over there.
00:23:10 So it was like the water would be full.
00:23:13 I quite remember there, sometimes they would be calling us to fight just like that to see
00:23:19 who is their boss.
00:23:22 So it would be like we are friends and they would be calling us to come and fight.
00:23:26 So sometimes when you fight, the winner will, I mean, take your food and eat it like that.
00:23:32 So here, they don't do those things here.
00:23:34 They don't insult someone.
00:23:35 Like they teach you manners and those stuff.
00:23:39 So when I came here to, when I start school, like they were helping me, the teachers, both
00:23:45 the teachers and the parents were helping me.
00:23:47 So I stick in my mind, I have to take my learnings very seriously.
00:23:52 The organization continues to receive applause from beneficiaries of the hard work and sacrifices
00:23:59 of Challenging Heights.
00:24:01 These stories of resilience and triumph serve as a testament to the transformative impact
00:24:08 of Challenging Heights work.
00:24:13 Child labor on Ghana's Volterley continues to murder lives of countless children, robbing
00:24:19 them of their innocence and potential.
00:24:23 However, Challenging Heights stands as a formidable force against this injustice, fighting tirelessly
00:24:29 to rescue and rehabilitate these children.
00:24:32 When I first came here, I was scared.
00:24:36 At first, I didn't know how to spell.
00:24:43 I couldn't read.
00:24:44 I didn't know how to spell.
00:24:45 I was scared.
00:24:46 I didn't know how to spell.
00:24:47 I was scared.
00:24:48 I didn't know how to spell.
00:24:49 I didn't know how to spell.
00:24:50 I didn't know how to spell.
00:24:51 I didn't know how to spell.
00:24:52 I didn't know how to spell.
00:24:53 I didn't know how to spell.
00:24:54 I didn't know how to spell.
00:24:55 I didn't know how to spell.
00:24:56 I didn't know how to spell.
00:24:57 I didn't know how to spell.
00:24:58 I didn't know how to spell.
00:24:59 I didn't know how to spell.
00:25:00 I didn't know how to spell.
00:25:01 I didn't know how to spell.
00:25:02 I didn't know how to spell.
00:25:03 I didn't know how to spell.
00:25:04 I didn't know how to spell.
00:25:05 I didn't know how to spell.
00:25:06 I didn't know how to spell.
00:25:07 I didn't know how to spell.
00:25:08 I didn't know how to spell.
00:25:09 I didn't know how to spell.
00:25:10 I didn't know how to spell.
00:25:11 I didn't know how to spell.
00:25:12 I didn't know how to spell.
00:25:13 I didn't know how to spell.
00:25:14 I didn't know how to spell.
00:25:15 I didn't know how to spell.
00:25:16 I didn't know how to spell.
00:25:17 I didn't know how to spell.
00:25:18 I didn't know how to spell.
00:25:19 I didn't know how to spell.
00:25:20 I didn't know how to spell.
00:25:21 I didn't know how to spell.
00:25:22 I didn't know how to spell.
00:25:23 I didn't know how to spell.
00:25:24 I didn't know how to spell.
00:25:25 I didn't know how to spell.
00:25:27 It took me about ten years.
00:25:29 When I came here, they taught me art therapy, CBI, child cancer, and how to manage your
00:25:40 behaviour.
00:25:41 They took me to some counsellors.
00:25:48 Now, they have helped me in my educational background.
00:25:55 Now I am at university, level 100, reading and accounting.
00:25:59 Through their multifaceted approach, the organisation brings hope and healing to the lives of those
00:26:06 affected by child labour, while working to create a society that protects the rights
00:26:13 and dignity of every child.
00:26:15 Together, we can break the chains and forge a brighter future for Ghana's children.
00:26:22 Well, thank you very much for staying with us here on the AM Show.
00:26:37 I'm sure watching that may have given you goosebumps, goose pimples at a point, as
00:26:43 you looked at how some of our children fall prey to trafficking, and some of what they
00:26:50 have to go through from time to time.
00:26:54 Well, joining us on a conversation as we mark World Day Against the Trafficking of Persons,
00:26:59 we have in the studio James Kofi Annan, he is President of Challenging Heights.
00:27:03 You heard him a short while ago.
00:27:05 We also have Enoch Deripufar, he is Programmes Director, Challenging Heights.
00:27:09 Both of them join us this morning for a conversation.
00:27:12 Gentlemen, a very good morning to you.
00:27:14 Good morning.
00:27:16 And for you, James, the interesting bit in all of this, even before we get to talk about
00:27:22 Challenging Heights and what you do, is that you were a child slave, and you never got
00:27:28 to school until age 13.
00:27:30 Tell us a bit about, just to situate the conversation, tell us a bit about that experience.
00:27:35 Well, thank you, and I'll say good morning to your viewers.
00:27:40 So, obviously you know that I'm from Gwineba, and I was from a small village at that time,
00:27:48 Gwineba, and when I was growing up, almost every home had been affected by trafficking.
00:27:55 So it was rife, it was common.
00:27:57 Yes, at that time, almost every home had an experience with trafficking.
00:28:01 And I'm the 12th child of my parents.
00:28:07 So my parents had, my mother had 12 children, I'm the last one.
00:28:11 And a number of them were also affected by trafficking.
00:28:14 So at the age of six, as would have been expected, I was also thrown into the same situation.
00:28:21 My typical day...
00:28:22 So your other siblings, some of them had gone through...
00:28:25 Oh yes, yes, my other siblings before me, some of them had gone through the situation.
00:28:30 So when I was thrown into the situation, my typical day started from 3am till 8pm, typically.
00:28:42 Even though sometimes it would flip, you see, 4pm to 8am.
00:28:50 Almost throughout, from Monday to Saturday.
00:28:55 Now, Sundays, because we're predominantly Christians,
00:29:01 and most of the people I work with were in the same church with me, African Faith Tabernacle Church,
00:29:07 we would go to church on Sunday morning, and then by 12 noon, we would go and do net mending.
00:29:16 So you're talking about virtually six and a half days of work, every week, every month, throughout the year,
00:29:25 for a cumulative period of seven years, whilst I was working there.
00:29:31 And in most cases, you are deprived of food, like you eat once a day, if you're lucky you eat twice,
00:29:39 three times a day there's a bumper harvest, sort of.
00:29:43 There's no medical care, when you are sick, you don't have access to any hospital or clinic.
00:29:48 I mean, these are islands.
00:29:50 We're using herbs.
00:29:51 Herbal medications, and so on and so forth.
00:29:53 And you'll not totally recover, but you have to go back and work.
00:29:58 And what was even more painful, apart from this...
00:30:01 And I have heard, my apologies, I have heard in some other stories,
00:30:04 that sometimes if you are unable to help participate in the fishing and all of that,
00:30:08 you may even be deprived of food as a form of punishment.
00:30:11 It is not me.
00:30:13 You will.
00:30:14 I mean, you have to participate.
00:30:16 How can you say you will not participate?
00:30:20 And if you don't, then you don't get anything to eat at all.
00:30:24 And so, these days, apart from everything, you are also punished in manners that is deterring to other children,
00:30:33 when you make a mistake.
00:30:35 So you're not expecting to make a mistake.
00:30:37 I always imagine a child of six years old, as I was, being asked to scoop water from the boat,
00:30:45 almost throughout the entire day.
00:30:47 Like, that would be my starting activity throughout.
00:30:51 So you just ask the canoe rooms on the waters.
00:30:56 Water comes in, so you have to scoop it out.
00:31:00 And so if that is my task, and I keep on doing it, as a child, I'll get tired.
00:31:05 And in the process, you will find me sleeping or dozing off.
00:31:10 And the only way to kill me would be to hit me, in order to stay alert and continue to do the work.
00:31:19 In the video, when we are talking about the ages of those children, sometimes people don't understand.
00:31:24 In the video, you see even four-year-olds on the lake working.
00:31:29 They are doing tasks that are above their strength, above their intellectual capacity, etc.
00:31:36 So that's the kind of experiences that I went through as a child, from six to 13 years,
00:31:42 when I then escaped to start school.
00:31:45 So I started school at the age of 13, when I didn't know how to write A, B, C, D, or 1, 2, 3.
00:31:53 What a way to kick-start a child's life.
00:31:58 So let me come to Enoch now.
00:32:00 It is on the back of what he has experienced, and what many others like him have experienced,
00:32:05 that we have Challenging Heights.
00:32:07 Tell us a bit about Challenging Heights and the work you do.
00:32:09 You are the program's director.
00:32:12 Thank you very much.
00:32:13 So Challenging Heights is an organization founded by our president, who is with us here.
00:32:19 We are almost 20 years in existence.
00:32:23 And the core focus of the organization is to rescue children who have been trafficked into slavery,
00:32:30 and then we recover them, and then try to restore their lives back.
00:32:35 So basically what Challenging Heights does is to go to rescue children,
00:32:40 and then after the rescue, we take them through a process of recovery or rehabilitation.
00:32:46 Some of the things we see is that when the children come back, they are very aggressive.
00:32:50 I think some of them were mentioned in the documentary.
00:32:52 They are very aggressive.
00:32:55 They are less forgiving.
00:32:57 You do something to him or her, they will ensure that they retaliate.
00:33:02 So we give them a number of activities at the recovery house, including art therapy.
00:33:08 We let them do a lot of cultural activities, sporting activities.
00:33:12 And importantly, at the recovery center, we seek to screen them health-wise,
00:33:19 to identify their sicknesses and diseases that they may have retained from the lake with,
00:33:23 and then we provide medical support for them.
00:33:25 The recovery center also helps to identify the hidden talents of the children.
00:33:31 While they are there over a period, we tend to identify their potentials,
00:33:35 and then build them to either go into the formal educational system or into a vocational training.
00:33:44 From the recovery center, we do a reunification with identified, responsible caregivers.
00:33:51 Not necessarily their parents, but if it is their parents,
00:33:56 and we take them through some counseling and everything,
00:33:59 we realize that this adult who has been identified is capable of taking care of the child.
00:34:03 Then we reunify the child or reintegrate the child with that person,
00:34:07 and then the child goes to school or undertakes a vocational training.
00:34:12 What we also do is that a common driver of trafficking is poverty.
00:34:18 So, once you are doing this, you have to be looking at the preventive side of things.
00:34:22 So, we also provide some kind of support to the families of the caregivers,
00:34:27 and then families that we've identified with children at risk of trafficking.
00:34:31 Some of them are in businesses, so we try to support their businesses,
00:34:35 so that if they have something to be able to take care of.
00:34:38 They will not be persuaded to, like in this circumstance.
00:34:42 I'm sure the financial bit also came through.
00:34:45 So, you'll be amazed at the prices at which children are given away.
00:34:50 You'll be very amazed at that.
00:34:52 Tell us about some of them. I've heard in the past that some can be given away for just a few cities.
00:34:55 Fifty cities, things like that.
00:34:58 Sometimes, when the children are there, a lot of things happen.
00:35:01 One of the things we are noticing is that slave masters are now using a system of indoctrination.
00:35:09 Once the children are there, they tell them things that will let them hate their own parents and families,
00:35:14 so that they don't want to see them again.
00:35:16 So, when we even go with the support of the state institutions,
00:35:19 like the human trafficking units and then the social welfare, they don't want to even come back.
00:35:26 Some of them may even be told, "Your people don't want you. That's why they brought you here."
00:35:30 So, then the child feels, "If they don't want me, what am I going back there to do?"
00:35:34 Exactly. Right. So, we do this.
00:35:37 And then, within our operations, we see sensitization as one of the key things,
00:35:42 because although we have developed as a country, but the ignorance, the lack of knowledge still persists.
00:35:48 So, whatever we do, we still try to educate the people, let them know that,
00:35:52 "Look, if you do this, these are the effects on the children."
00:35:58 Before I come back to James, very quickly, this thought just came to mind.
00:36:02 Oftentimes, do we hear that there is a case of sexploitation, that sometimes they are exploited sexually.
00:36:09 Is that something that in your work you've come to witness or you see?
00:36:15 Yes. So, sexual exploitation is one of the things that the victims go through when they are on the lake,
00:36:21 especially the females, victims of trafficking.
00:36:26 The sad thing is that when they come back, because of the sensitivity of the issue, they don't open up immediately.
00:36:33 So, some of these things, we get to know about it much later,
00:36:37 when they undergo the recovery and they now begin to trust the people they are with.
00:36:44 Then they now begin to open up and then they tell you that,
00:36:47 "Look, this person even did this to me when I was on the lake. This person did that."
00:36:51 Yes, so it's a reality.
00:36:53 And sometimes, memories are just coming.
00:36:56 I have read or I have had a conversation where sometimes even if you are one of the child slaves,
00:37:02 but if you were able to help get a bumper harvest or something, then a female there would be, you would have that.
00:37:10 So, basically, you are getting the two of them who are slaves into a very sad situation. All of that.
00:37:18 Yes, I wanted to add to what you said about, specifically about this issue.
00:37:23 So, the exploitation that you talked about is one of the major tools that are deployed
00:37:31 with the girls who are involved in human trafficking, especially on lake water.
00:37:37 When the girls go, they do the cooking, washing, and all of that.
00:37:43 But they also serve as an additional job of being sex materials.
00:37:50 So, for instance, what you're talking about, girls being asked to go to this man or that man, you know,
00:37:58 for sex to reward him or her, him, because of bumper harvest.
00:38:05 But also, there are situations where the men may not want to work.
00:38:11 So, if you had a girl and I have a man or a young boy who doesn't want to go to work today
00:38:18 because he's strong and he's resistant, I can just come to you and say, "Can you give me your akushia?
00:38:23 I want him to do something for my boy." No, so you agree. You give me your akushia.
00:38:29 I take the akushia to Kujo who is refusing to work. Just go to Kujo. He's in the room.
00:38:34 You go and just lie down. Kujo sleeps with you. Just like that.
00:38:39 And you do that not once, not twice. I mean, in a week, if you are 13, 14 years old,
00:38:47 you are likely to have service boys probably four times in a week, kind of.
00:38:54 So, that is the kind of situation that the girls go through.
00:38:58 So, they get pregnant without knowing who made them pregnant.
00:39:02 Remember last time when I was here, I told you that we had a 13-year-old girl
00:39:07 who had a one-year-old son. Such a person would have been pregnant at the age of 12.
00:39:15 But up to now, we don't even know who made that girl pregnant.
00:39:21 And it is as a result of the fact that there were multiple boys involved.
00:39:26 And she was not the one who was elected to give herself to those multiple men.
00:39:33 It was a force that compelled her to give herself to those multiple men
00:39:39 in order to have sex with. So, those are the situations that we are dealing with.
00:39:47 Let's talk now about World Day Against Trafficking in Persons.
00:39:53 It's actually marked on the 30th day of July.
00:39:57 The theme for this year, "Reach Every Victim of Trafficking, Leave No One Behind."
00:40:04 Tell us a bit more about this day and what it means for people like you,
00:40:09 your organization, and for all of those child slaves or those who are being trafficked.
00:40:15 Yes. So, the World Day Against Trafficking in Persons has been instituted
00:40:20 and recognized internationally to bring attention to people who are suffering
00:40:27 from human trafficking and modern slavery.
00:40:30 Because, you know, over the years, not much attention has been paid to the situation.
00:40:37 It is to draw government's attention to looking at their own processes,
00:40:43 their own actions, policies, institutions that fight against human trafficking.
00:40:51 And to also draw civil society's involvement in creating awareness about the situation
00:40:58 so that all of us will recognize victims if we meet one.
00:41:02 All of us will take actions if we are to take one.
00:41:06 All of us would help with advocacy of implementation of laws and policies and frameworks
00:41:13 if we have to do so.
00:41:14 So, that is basically about World Day Against Trafficking in Persons.
00:41:19 In Ghana here, the Ministry of Gender, Children, and Social Protection is spearheading that.
00:41:27 So, we lead that with them.
00:41:29 But for us as an organization, Challenging Heights, what we want to use the occasion for
00:41:34 is for all of us to recognize that the problem exists.
00:41:40 And that there are human beings, especially children and women,
00:41:45 who are going through traumatizing experiences as a result of this human trafficking
00:41:51 and modern slavery.
00:41:53 And that all of us, businesses, individuals, media, all of us, would have to pay attention
00:42:01 to the plight of these victims who are helpless.
00:42:06 And many of these victims are held in isolation in places where it's not accessible.
00:42:14 They cannot help themselves unless we go to help them.
00:42:18 And therefore, we, all of us, would have to be one in helping the victims.
00:42:24 Anything else you'd like to add in terms of a brief overview of this day and what it represents?
00:42:29 I think that to commemorate the day, the United Nations Office for Drugs and Crime issued a release.
00:42:37 And I think their global concern this year is the rather slow response of countries to the issue of trafficking.
00:42:48 And so their call is for a lot more effort to be done by both state and non-state actors
00:42:55 to do a lot more in combating trafficking, in recognizing, as our president said,
00:43:00 in recognizing trafficking as an issue.
00:43:03 And to continuously sensitize people of all sectors, all categories,
00:43:08 that trafficking indeed still exists as an issue and must be prioritized.
00:43:14 And the countries must allocate resources so that the implementation of the anti-trafficking laws
00:43:21 is effectively done.
00:43:23 We do have a lot of laws in the country when it comes to the legal framework we are not lacking.
00:43:28 But what we need is the effective implementation of these laws.
00:43:34 Can you give us, additionally, before I come back to James,
00:43:37 a brief overview of what the global picture is when it comes to trafficking?
00:43:41 I was just checking out the UN page, and it appears even detection of trafficking is falling.
00:43:47 Yeah.
00:43:48 What is the global picture?
00:43:49 Yeah, so all that is reflected in this year's message by the UN, the Drugs and Crime Office.
00:43:56 As you rightly mentioned, detection has fallen by, I think, 11 percent.
00:44:01 Eleven percent.
00:44:02 And then persecution has also fallen.
00:44:05 So the key issue, what it means is that not a lot is being done in punishing trafficking as a crime.
00:44:13 Not a lot is being done.
00:44:15 So it all goes within the issue of states allocating resources and prioritizing it.
00:44:22 When you come to Ghana as a country, our challenge seems to be, in terms of persecution,
00:44:29 seems to be with the weaknesses in the social protection system that we have.
00:44:33 I mean, we don't have a good social protection system.
00:44:37 So when you prosecute, the question is, what happens next?
00:44:43 If, let's say, the parents of the child were those who sold the child into trafficking,
00:44:48 and you end up jailing them, where does the child go?
00:44:53 Is the state ready to take care of the children?
00:44:57 And when you also--
00:44:58 And we know the answer to that.
00:44:59 Yes.
00:45:00 Rehabilitation facilities, even for those who are incarcerated.
00:45:03 What is it like?
00:45:04 And to think of--
00:45:05 And as soon as you initiate persecution against parents and people in the community,
00:45:10 the children become outcasts.
00:45:13 Their families don't want to have anything to do with them and all that.
00:45:16 So these are clear challenges to the issue of persecutions and all that we have as a country.
00:45:23 And briefly, briefly, to add, because I want to find out from you how countries are, you know,
00:45:28 dealing with this human trafficking menace, modern slavery, modern-day slavery, if you like.
00:45:35 Yes, I will connect what I'm going to add to that one quickly.
00:45:39 So globally, there are almost 50 million human beings who are affected by--
00:45:46 who are victims of human trafficking and modern slavery, according to the Global Slavery Index.
00:45:52 And most of these are children and women.
00:45:59 We also know that globally, the profit out of human trafficking and modern slavery
00:46:05 is about $150 billion every year.
00:46:10 So that is how it is, you know, in this world.
00:46:13 So we are not talking about only Ghana, you know.
00:46:16 We are talking about so many countries in this world who are all, you know,
00:46:21 having issues with modern slavery and human trafficking.
00:46:25 Now--
00:46:26 But in terms of our own efforts--
00:46:28 In terms of--
00:46:29 Yes, there's a global context.
00:46:31 But in Ghana, how much have we done?
00:46:33 In Ghana, you see, our--
00:46:36 So we have the human trafficking law, and then we have the National Plan of Action.
00:46:42 We have institutions like the Human Trafficking Secretariat placed under the Gender Ministry.
00:46:48 We have the Anti-Human Trafficking Unit of Ghana Police Service.
00:46:51 So in terms of institutions and laws, we are doing well.
00:46:54 But as Enoch said, in terms of implementation, we are lacking.
00:46:59 And it is because we are lacking, that's why we have so many children
00:47:03 who are victims of human trafficking and modern slavery.
00:47:06 There are a lot of countries making efforts.
00:47:08 But the effort that the West are making is backed by action.
00:47:13 You see, so if you go to Australia, for instance,
00:47:15 they have the Modern Slavery Act, which they passed in 2018.
00:47:20 The Modern Slavery Act is rigorously enforced.
00:47:24 If you go to UK, they have the Modern Slavery Act as well, which was passed in 2015.
00:47:31 It is rigorously enforced.
00:47:33 That requires companies to even report on their website
00:47:36 the effort they are making to address human trafficking and modern slavery.
00:47:40 You go to Netherlands, similar story.
00:47:42 But when it comes to our side, implementation becomes the challenge.
00:47:47 And that's quite a situation.
00:47:49 Which brings me to the next question, in terms of, like you said,
00:47:52 entities even have to put on their website what they are doing
00:47:56 to counter child trafficking, trafficking in persons, from their own standpoint.
00:48:04 What then is the role that businesses, in our context, I'm talking about big business,
00:48:10 big business, medium business, small business, can do in counteracting trafficking?
00:48:16 Because a lot of the time, the end game is work.
00:48:20 And it also ends up in some entities, which is why maybe the sweat shops in China
00:48:27 and India over time have come under scrutiny.
00:48:30 Because most of the things, maybe a lot of the clothes we are wearing,
00:48:33 you would see China or India or something from there.
00:48:36 What happens in those shops? How are the people treated?
00:48:39 What is the situation here?
00:48:41 Yes, so in Ghana, unfortunately, our businesses are more or less
00:48:47 pushing themselves as if they are not the ones who have caused the problem.
00:48:52 Have they caused it?
00:48:54 Yes, businesses are connected to modern slavery and human trafficking.
00:48:59 How are they connected? I'm sure that will be your next question.
00:49:02 So every single business would have to look at its own internal processes and supply chains.
00:49:09 And once you look into that, you will realise that in some way or the other,
00:49:14 you are connected. Let's take the banks.
00:49:17 The $150 billion annual profit from human trafficking and modern slavery,
00:49:23 where does it flow to? Is it not through the financial system?
00:49:27 So it means that you as a banker or financial institution,
00:49:32 you are also making profit off of the victims' efforts.
00:49:37 Directly or indirectly?
00:49:38 Directly or indirectly, because the money is flowing through your supply chains
00:49:43 and you are making profit out of that.
00:49:45 So for instance, I traffic you. Just as an example, I traffic you.
00:49:50 Probably in the course of using you, I've gained about 10,000 Ghana Cedis
00:49:55 out of your effort. That 10,000 Ghana Cedis, I put it in the bank.
00:49:59 The bank invests that money in treasury bills or whatever it is,
00:50:03 and the bank gets profit out of it.
00:50:05 So indirectly, by trafficking you, the bank has profited out of your pay.
00:50:12 So you cannot then sit down and say that it's not your concern.
00:50:17 It is your concern. Go into the mining sectors.
00:50:20 You see very small children who are being used for all manner of things.
00:50:25 You say, "Oh, Ghana Cedis is informal, so it is not our business."
00:50:29 But when the Ghana Cedis get the money, where do they put the money?
00:50:33 They put it in the bank.
00:50:34 So as far as Ghana is concerned, are there no entities that are sort of
00:50:39 standing up and saying, "You know what, let's be a shining example."
00:50:42 And I pose that question in this context.
00:50:44 In the West and all of that, you say they are rising up.
00:50:47 But some of these entities are here.
00:50:49 They are from the West, and they are in Ghana.
00:50:51 Why is it that when they come here, they don't own up to such responsibility?
00:50:54 That is why it's quite shocking.
00:50:56 I mean, UK requires all their companies, whether in their country or outside,
00:51:02 to publicly declare their effort towards human trafficking and modern slavery.
00:51:07 I'm expecting a bank like, I'm just using an example, like Sanchat, you know,
00:51:13 to do that.
00:51:14 I'm expecting Vodafone to do that.
00:51:18 You know, the Australian Modern Slavery Act also requires their companies to do so.
00:51:23 So I'm expecting all the mining companies that are coming from Australia
00:51:27 to take action.
00:51:29 But unfortunately, because as a country, we have kept quiet over their responsibility,
00:51:36 they are also shaking that responsibility.
00:51:39 And that's why we are doing this advocacy,
00:51:41 that businesses must rise up to the occasion and be counted.
00:51:46 They should not think that they are not part of the situation.
00:51:50 But they are part.
00:51:51 They are perpetrators.
00:51:52 They are connectors.
00:51:53 They are connected to the human trafficking situation.
00:51:58 Coming to you, Enoch, how then is Challenging Heights helping in Ghana
00:52:03 to counter trafficking, not just child trafficking,
00:52:07 but trafficking in general and modern-day slavery?
00:52:10 What have you been up to?
00:52:12 So what we do as an organization,
00:52:15 apart from the rescue activities and all that we do,
00:52:18 we embark on international and national-level advocacy.
00:52:23 International and national-level advocacy.
00:52:25 Including--
00:52:26 How do you do that?
00:52:27 So we use our international platforms,
00:52:31 partner platforms to sensitize or to create awareness of the issue of trafficking.
00:52:36 And also to initiate conversations,
00:52:39 like what we are just talking about,
00:52:41 the businesses and modern slavery.
00:52:45 Getting to the end of last year and then into this year,
00:52:48 we came in and tried to initiate the discussions around
00:52:53 businesses having due diligence provisions
00:52:57 as a way of addressing modern slavery in businesses.
00:53:01 We have issued a number of press releases.
00:53:03 We've done publications in the newspapers to draw attention to it.
00:53:07 We've petitioned the African continental free--
00:53:11 Free area.
00:53:12 Free area, after, on that.
00:53:14 And then currently we are embarking on a research,
00:53:17 a self-funded research on that.
00:53:19 And what we are doing is,
00:53:21 we've identified a couple of organizations.
00:53:24 We've written to them.
00:53:26 We want to come and discuss with you,
00:53:29 talk to you, your managers, and then your employees about this.
00:53:33 And believe me, I think Thursday or Friday,
00:53:37 when I had a conversation with the officers,
00:53:39 only three organizations have given us a positive feedback.
00:53:42 The rest are saying, "Okay, we are still looking at it.
00:53:45 We need to do this. We need a-- that kind of thing."
00:53:49 What is the fear?
00:53:51 I don't know.
00:53:53 Like, maybe it is lack of knowledge of the implications of it,
00:53:59 or rather maybe also on the benefit of it,
00:54:02 like availing yourself to such an exercise.
00:54:05 It's even a plus that--
00:54:07 Look, it's not like we are not false finders.
00:54:10 When the issue exists,
00:54:12 if you know that an issue exists,
00:54:14 you acknowledge that it exists,
00:54:16 it gives you an opportunity to be able to act responsibly,
00:54:20 take steps to remedy it,
00:54:23 rather than being there and maybe it exists.
00:54:26 And for all you know,
00:54:28 and in most of the places, if you look at evidence,
00:54:32 sometimes the top managers don't know,
00:54:35 especially the issues of the sexual aspect of things.
00:54:38 People who are employed into organizations
00:54:41 and maybe taken advantage of and all that,
00:54:43 managers don't get to know about that.
00:54:45 So we think that maybe doing something like this
00:54:48 would probably bring some information out
00:54:51 so that the big entities would know that,
00:54:54 "Okay, either we are on the right path.
00:54:56 If we are not, then this is what we need to do
00:54:59 to be on the right path."
00:55:01 So I think it is the lack of knowledge
00:55:03 or probably they think we are on a false finding mission,
00:55:06 which is not the situation.
00:55:08 We've already spoken about some specific situations
00:55:12 of those children who are actually trafficked
00:55:16 and what they go through,
00:55:18 from starvation as a tool of manipulating them,
00:55:21 sexploitation, among others,
00:55:24 and even creating a rift between them and their families
00:55:27 and all of that.
00:55:28 We've spoken about those.
00:55:30 When you look at our situation in Ghana, however,
00:55:35 just how much do we stand to lose?
00:55:38 And I'll put that question to both of you.
00:55:40 If we don't tackle this problem head on,
00:55:44 what could this mean for our society,
00:55:47 the fabric of society, financially, socially, economically?
00:55:52 Briefly on that, both of you.
00:55:54 I'll start with you, Inok.
00:55:55 So I'll say it means a loss,
00:55:58 I mean a lot of loss to the country
00:56:01 in terms of human resource,
00:56:04 because the greatest of all the resources is human.
00:56:08 It's the human beings who think and bring the innovations
00:56:13 and drive industry and everything.
00:56:15 So look at the numbers that we are talking about
00:56:17 and imagine that all these children
00:56:21 do not get an opportunity to complete a basic
00:56:24 or secondary education.
00:56:26 They don't get an opportunity to develop any other skill
00:56:29 apart from fishing.
00:56:30 It's interesting to know when they are there,
00:56:33 a key component of the indoctrination is that
00:56:36 they don't even allow them to know numbers like money.
00:56:40 So that if you give a child one CD,
00:56:43 buy something 50 pesos,
00:56:44 how much are you to bring back?
00:56:46 They don't teach them that.
00:56:48 And the reason is they don't want them to understand
00:56:51 the value of things so that they can continue to exploit them.
00:56:54 So you can imagine that if you are there
00:56:56 from five to about 16 years, 17 years,
00:56:58 and you come out and you are now having to grapple
00:57:01 with these things, when are you going to make up
00:57:05 and then become somebody who society can benefit from?
00:57:09 So the loss I think is enormous to the country at large,
00:57:14 to the individual families,
00:57:16 and the more children we have there,
00:57:20 I mean once you have a child there,
00:57:21 it perpetuates the situation.
00:57:25 And that families get motivated because if you are there,
00:57:29 the parents or the caregivers are there,
00:57:31 the guardians are there,
00:57:32 and occasionally somebody brings them
00:57:33 100 Ghana CDs during festivals,
00:57:35 like the coastal areas.
00:57:36 During the festival, someone will come
00:57:38 and then, oh, this is 200 CDs or 100 CDs,
00:57:41 and that is a lot of money to them.
00:57:43 Others get motivated to do that.
00:57:45 So the more we delay in tackling this,
00:57:48 the more children are driven into rape,
00:57:50 and the more we lose as a country.
00:57:52 - Right.
00:57:53 The UN in talking about this makes mention of the fact
00:57:55 that trafficking in persons is a serious crime
00:57:58 and a grave violation of human rights.
00:58:03 So to cap off the conversation on that same point,
00:58:07 right before we wrap with your call to action,
00:58:11 what would you say?
00:58:12 - Well, in terms of the human resource,
00:58:14 I think the UN has spoken extensively.
00:58:17 I think that we should just look at the numbers
00:58:20 and look at the wastage.
00:58:22 If at the age of 13, when I escaped,
00:58:24 if I had not had the courage at that time,
00:58:28 or I don't even know what came--
00:58:30 - So you literally, you ran away.
00:58:31 - Yes, ran away.
00:58:33 I wouldn't have been sitting here
00:58:35 being able to have this conversation with you.
00:58:37 So it would be a human resource that would have been lost, right?
00:58:41 In the same way, I would say that
00:58:44 I was not the most talented person on that lake.
00:58:47 There were more children who were more talented than me.
00:58:51 But unfortunately, they didn't get the opportunity
00:58:53 to escape.
00:58:54 So they couldn't go to school.
00:58:56 So they couldn't become the banker like I became.
00:58:59 They couldn't become the person who has now employed
00:59:03 almost 300 people in my organization and my businesses.
00:59:08 So me alone, with that small talent,
00:59:11 now employs over almost 300 employees.
00:59:16 Just imagine all those others,
00:59:18 if they had been able to be freed and gone to school.
00:59:22 If each one of them was able to employ--
00:59:25 - Or they could have become--
00:59:26 - 10, or even have their own lives back,
00:59:30 it would have been a human resource,
00:59:32 a profit to the country.
00:59:34 That's why we all have to take steps.
00:59:36 If I had the opportunity to see some of the pictures,
00:59:38 I would have explained to you
00:59:40 the actual physical implications of what's happening.
00:59:44 - All right, so your call to action is in less than a minute.
00:59:47 - Well, I would say that everyone should come on board.
00:59:51 We as an organization are doing our best.
00:59:54 We've rescued over 1,800, that's about 1,800 of those children
00:59:59 we are talking about.
01:00:01 We need support to do the work that we are doing.
01:00:05 But more importantly, government itself
01:00:07 would have to allocate money, that's budget,
01:00:12 to its own institutions, as I have always said,
01:00:15 to Human Trafficking Secretariat
01:00:17 and to Human Trafficking Unit of Ghana Police Service,
01:00:20 et cetera.
01:00:22 - So I will ask for greater collaboration
01:00:27 between civil society organizations
01:00:29 and also with government institutions.
01:00:33 The issue of trafficking requires a holistic approach.
01:00:38 And so CSOs, NGOs, and then the government institutions
01:00:41 ought to work together in a collaborative manner
01:00:44 to be able to combat trafficking,
01:00:48 especially involving children.
01:00:50 - All right.
01:00:51 Thank you so much.
01:00:52 And this has been our conversation on the World Day
01:00:55 Against Trafficking in Persons.
01:00:58 If you're trafficking, by and by, you will be nabbed.
01:01:01 And I think there should be stiffer penalties as well
01:01:03 for parents who engage in this.
01:01:06 James Kofi Annan is president, Challenging Heights.
01:01:09 They have been working over the years
01:01:11 to stem the tide of trafficking, modern-day slavery, if you like.
01:01:15 Enoch Deripufar is programs director
01:01:18 with Challenging Heights.
01:01:19 Once more, thank you for joining us
01:01:21 and continue with the good work.
01:01:22 - Thank you.
01:01:24 - And that is how we cap off this conversation for today.
01:01:29 But there's still a lot more coming your way
01:01:31 as we deliberate on the media budget review
01:01:34 to be presented today in Parliament.
01:01:38 Today, Finance Minister Ken Oforiata will be doing that.
01:01:41 After all the flip-flopping and the back-and-forth,
01:01:45 it will be delivered.
01:01:46 But what are your expectations?
01:01:48 We'll be interacting with those who are doyens
01:01:51 in economics and finance to find out what their thoughts are.
01:01:55 We'll be talking about the different aspects of our economy
01:01:58 and also deliberating with banking consultants.
01:02:01 That conversation, up next on The AM Show.
01:02:04 ♪ ♪
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