- 3 years ago
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00:00:00 [Music]
00:00:07 [Music]
00:00:35 Being a dad is one of the great privileges of my life.
00:00:38 I give my son a BB gun and that's just about all the emotional support he needs.
00:00:45 My daughter on the other hand...
00:00:47 I've heard people say that there are no differences between male and female.
00:00:52 Those people are idiots.
00:00:55 I'm a husband. I'm a father for...
00:00:58 I host a talk show. I give speeches. I write books.
00:01:04 I like to make sense of things.
00:01:05 But making sense of females is a whole other matter.
00:01:09 Even astrophysicist Stephen Hawking, who could come up with a theory on black holes, was completely dumbfounded by women.
00:01:15 Women, they are a complete mystery.
00:01:19 And now our culture is telling us that the differences between girls and boys don't matter.
00:01:23 That if you identify as something, then you are that thing.
00:01:26 How do we help our kids make sense of this when they're bombarded with conflicting messages about gender and identity?
00:01:33 Forget trying to figure out women.
00:01:36 The real question is, what is a woman?
00:01:40 As you grow, your body changes from that of a young girl to that of a woman.
00:01:47 Soon, Molly will be a young woman, having dates, going to dances in lovely romantic dresses.
00:01:53 The boy's shoulders are broad and his body muscular, while the girl's body is more curved.
00:01:58 I'd like to know more about different kinds of hormones.
00:02:02 The presence of these hormones in the blood brings about many changes in the bodies of both boys and girls.
00:02:08 Being a woman is one of the things I like best about myself.
00:02:15 I think you'll like it too.
00:02:17 [Music]
00:02:32 I like to come out here to think.
00:02:35 Nature seems to always tell the truth.
00:02:38 Even when we don't want to hear it.
00:02:44 Truth is, I'm not very good at fishing.
00:02:47 But what is truth?
00:02:51 Is there a truth?
00:02:54 Is this what progress looks like?
00:02:57 Can my boys really become girls?
00:03:00 Do I have four daughters?
00:03:03 Do I now have to pay for four weddings?
00:03:06 Is there a son trapped in my daughter's body?
00:03:10 If so, how do I get him out?
00:03:14 Are any of my kids who they claim to be?
00:03:16 Who are these people?
00:03:19 Who am I?
00:03:21 I better see a therapist.
00:03:24 In the state of Tennessee, I'm a licensed marital and family therapist,
00:03:27 which basically means I've been trained up to think about systems, family systems,
00:03:31 how we were raised up, how that shapes who we are today.
00:03:34 So on your website, if you'll bear with me, quoting, you say,
00:03:39 "In my combination of approaches in my therapeutic work, including anti-oppression, feminist, and narrative frameworks,
00:03:44 I rely deeply on systems theory and understanding that individuals are products of and in dialogue with our surroundings,
00:03:49 including our families, broader culture, workplaces, nature, and political climates."
00:03:53 What does that mean?
00:03:56 Yeah, so thinking about the modalities that I use,
00:04:00 I'm definitely informed by feminist family therapy,
00:04:05 and the idea is that we live in gendered worlds where there are certain imperatives that are placed on us
00:04:11 about who we are and what we do based on how we've been gendered.
00:04:15 From the minute I was assigned female, I was told, "Okay, these are the kind of clothing that you're going to wear.
00:04:20 These are the kind of, the type of play that you're going to engage in as a child,
00:04:24 the path that maybe your life will take because of social expectations."
00:04:28 What do you mean by assigned female?
00:04:32 Who assigns female?
00:04:35 Yeah, so most times people when they're born, they're assigned a gender.
00:04:39 By the doctors.
00:04:41 Yeah.
00:04:43 What do they base that assignment on?
00:04:47 So basically, it's based on genitalia.
00:04:50 So people looking at genitalia and deciding, "Okay, this is a girl or a boy."
00:04:57 And we know now that sex and gender are so much more than just this binary.
00:05:02 Some women have penises, some men have vaginas.
00:05:05 That's not how gender works.
00:05:08 How do we know that that's not true? Where do we learn that from?
00:05:12 Yeah, well, I learned that from hearing from transgender people who've said, "Oh, I'm a trans woman.
00:05:21 Just because I happen to have a penis, that doesn't mean that this is who I am as a person."
00:05:27 Or that genitalia doesn't equal gender.
00:05:30 Who they are, their gender, their gender expression.
00:05:34 That, yeah, a trans woman is a woman.
00:05:37 With the fluidity of these things, how do I know if I'm a woman?
00:05:41 That's a great question.
00:05:44 I like scented candles. I've watched Sex and the City.
00:05:49 Yeah.
00:05:50 So how do I know?
00:05:52 Yeah, Matt, that question right there, that question is when it's asked with a lot of curiosity.
00:06:00 That's the beginning of a lot of people's gender identity development journeys.
00:06:04 If my mom who gave birth to me is a woman, and my wife is a woman, though I haven't asked her, maybe I should.
00:06:16 But if they're all women, and also the boy who sits down with you and says, "I think I'm a girl," actually is one, then what is a woman?
00:06:24 Mm. Yeah. Great question. I'm not a woman, so I can't really answer that.
00:06:32 I thought therapy would make me less confused.
00:06:40 Am I the only one feeling this way?
00:06:44 I need to hit the road and find out.
00:06:46 We're talking about gender in society. Let me start with a real basic question. What is a woman?
00:07:01 A woman?
00:07:07 I don't want to assume, but you guys are all women?
00:07:12 We're all women.
00:07:13 So how would you define it, like in the simplest terms?
00:07:16 That is hard. Yeah, it is. It is a stumper.
00:07:20 A woman is someone that likes to be pretty and think of themself as a delicate creature.
00:07:27 I'm pretty and delicate.
00:07:29 I could be a woman too.
00:07:31 Yes, you could.
00:07:33 Defining womanhood is just a project of someone who identifies as a woman.
00:07:38 What do they identify as? They identify as a woman, but what is that?
00:07:42 I honestly don't know.
00:07:45 It's a simple question.
00:07:48 So why is it so hard to answer?
00:07:52 This is going to take some serious investigation.
00:08:07 For all of human existence, women were understood to be a certain thing.
00:08:12 So what changed? No one can seem to answer the question now.
00:08:19 Over 2,000 surgeries and counting, Dr. Marci Bowers is the nation's preeminent sex change surgeon.
00:08:25 Surely someone who does sex change surgeries can answer what a woman is.
00:08:36 Dr. Marci Bowers, first of all, thanks for talking to us.
00:08:39 My pleasure.
00:08:41 You're a world-renowned gynecologist and surgeon. You're also a transgender woman.
00:08:45 Can you tell me a little bit about...
00:08:47 I identify as a woman, but...
00:08:50 You're a woman, right.
00:08:52 I'm a woman with... I mean, that's my life, day to day.
00:08:55 But I have a transgender history.
00:08:58 So one thing on your website, it says, "Gender-affirming vaginoplasty."
00:09:05 What is that, exactly?
00:09:06 A vaginoplasty is the creation of a female vagina and vulva.
00:09:13 We're altering the physical characteristics of the individual to fit better with a gender identity that is female.
00:09:22 This is all constructed from the penis?
00:09:25 Yes, that's right.
00:09:28 It's quite refined in the sense that they really, not only do they look like female anatomy, but they also function that way.
00:09:35 For the most part. I mean, certainly it's a bit of a Faustian bargain. You know, it's not perfect.
00:09:40 Does anyone ever regret their surgeries? We know they do, but how often do people regret their surgeries?
00:09:47 Well, actually, we don't know that they do.
00:09:50 There are legitimate detransitioners, and there are people who truly feel that in their journey, they may have made a mistake.
00:09:58 Now, fortunately, this is a really, really uncommon phenomenon.
00:10:03 I don't know if you've ever heard of people in the trans-abled community.
00:10:07 These are people who are physically able-bodied, but feel like they should be disabled or identify as such.
00:10:15 For example, a man who has two arms, but feels like he should have one.
00:10:19 If a man in this kind of marginalized community went to the doctor and said, "I want to have my arm cut off," do you think that that...
00:10:28 That doesn't have anything to do with gender identity.
00:10:30 Well, it's someone's self-identity, how someone identifies.
00:10:34 That's someone who has a, and I'll accept it as a mental diagnosis, a psychiatric condition.
00:10:45 People tend to know what aptomenophilia is all about, but somehow it's the idea that you're fascinated or charmed by having a limb or part of a limb missing.
00:10:54 I would say that's, pardon my non-medical language, kooky.
00:11:02 You don't see any? You think this is totally irrelevant?
00:11:06 Yep.
00:11:08 So, the biggest, broadest question is, what is a woman?
00:11:14 A woman is a combination of your physical attributes and then what you're showing to the world and the gender clues that you give.
00:11:27 And hopefully those match your gender identity.
00:11:30 The critics on the other side of this, of this issue...
00:11:35 There aren't many, but go ahead.
00:11:38 There aren't many who would disagree with what you're saying about...
00:11:43 Well, you know, the dinosaurs of the world are certainly out there.
00:11:46 Yeah.
00:11:48 How long have you been running the shop here?
00:11:56 25 years.
00:11:58 Wow. Now, you had an incident here a little while ago that went really viral online. Lots of reaction in the public.
00:12:04 Aberdeen Councilwoman Tiesa Mesquiz confronted owner Don Sucre about a sign he posted in his store.
00:12:12 I just put the sign up over here and he came around the corner and I thought, "Okay, I recognize him."
00:12:18 I says, "Oh, I recognize you. You're our new city councilman."
00:12:22 He says, "No, I'm your new city councilwoman."
00:12:25 So, it was kind of on from there.
00:12:28 You know what? It's bullshit.
00:12:30 No, what you're spouting is bullshit.
00:12:32 No, it's not. Trans women are women, sir. That sign is bullshit.
00:12:38 I've been running this 25 years. I've never had a problem with anybody, whether they're gay, transsexual, anything.
00:12:44 Now, you're saying "councilman." He, this individual, was saying, "I'm a woman."
00:12:50 Right.
00:12:52 And you said you're not a woman. How do you know that that person's not a woman?
00:12:55 How do I know?
00:12:57 Yeah.
00:12:59 Well, common sense.
00:13:01 Trans women are women!
00:13:05 Doesn't the science say that if someone identifies as a woman, then they are?
00:13:11 No, no. Now, that's completely bogus.
00:13:14 I don't care if you think you're a sheepdog and you come into my store.
00:13:20 It don't matter to me. Just don't come in and try to shove that shit down my throat.
00:13:25 If it makes someone feel better, what about their feelings?
00:13:28 I don't give a shit about their feelings. I'm old.
00:13:32 You're a scientist. You're in the Star Wars universe. Jar Jar Binks. Pansexual, do you think? Transgender?
00:13:38 Um, why would I even care?
00:13:43 If it's his truth.
00:13:45 Well, it ain't true.
00:13:47 You're not a scientist. You're not a gender studies major. Or are you?
00:13:50 No.
00:13:52 How do you know that you're a man?
00:13:53 How do I know that I'm a man? I guess because I got a dick.
00:13:57 Well, I guess Don isn't overthinking it. He admits he's not a gender studies major.
00:14:03 Or at the very least a doctor. Maybe I should go talk to one.
00:14:20 My name is Michelle Forcier and I have a medical degree from University of Connecticut Residency, University of Utah Pediatrics.
00:14:28 And I've worked for a number of different Planned Parenthoods for 20 years.
00:14:32 I do advanced contraception and abortion as well as gender hormones and sort of looking at the whole sort of schema of gender, sex and reproductive justice.
00:14:42 So you've done a lot of work in this field. Could you just start by telling us?
00:14:45 Sure.
00:14:48 How does a child first begin to transition into another gender or identify themselves as a gender different from how they were born?
00:14:58 Yeah. Well, I mean, there's research and data that show that babies and infants understand differences in gender.
00:15:06 Some children figure out their gender really early.
00:15:12 And the reason why we say, oh, that's interesting or important is because they're figuring out their gender identity is not necessarily congruent with their sex assigned at birth.
00:15:21 When the doctor sees the penis and says, this is a male, has the sex of male, that's an arbitrary distinction.
00:15:30 Telling that family based on that little penis that your child is absolutely 100 percent male identified no matter what else occurs in their life, that's not correct.
00:15:43 So what does gender affirmation care? You're a big proponent of.
00:15:46 If we walk through a child is sitting down with you, is questioning their gender. What's the gender affirmation process?
00:15:55 Gender affirmation means that as a pediatrician, as someone who says my job is to provide the best medical care for you, is I need to listen really carefully.
00:16:05 And how I put it in words for kids so that they can understand it is tell me your story.
00:16:10 Where have you been in terms of your gender and your gender identity? Where are you right now?
00:16:15 And more excitingly, where would you like to be in the future?
00:16:21 I've got a four year old who believes in Santa Claus.
00:16:25 Says to someone who believes that a fat man is traveling through the sky on a flying reindeer at lightning speed coming down his chimney with presents.
00:16:35 Yeah.
00:16:37 Would you say that this is someone who maybe has a tenuous grasp on reality?
00:16:40 They have an appropriate four year old handle on the reality that's very real for them.
00:16:45 Agreed, agreed. But Santa Claus is real for them, but Santa Claus is not actually real.
00:16:50 But Santa Claus does deliver their Christmas presents.
00:16:52 Well yeah, but he's not real though.
00:16:55 To that child, they are.
00:16:57 When I see a child who, you know, believes in Santa Claus, and then let's say this is a boy and he says I'm a girl.
00:17:04 This is someone who can't distinguish between fantasy and reality, so how could you take that as a reality?
00:17:13 I would say that as a pediatrician and as a parent, I would say how wonderful my four year old in their imagination is.
00:17:20 Aren't kids famous for their active imaginations?
00:17:29 Should we really let our children define reality?
00:17:34 If I say that I feel a certain way, then obviously you can't tell me I don't feel that way.
00:17:42 But just because I feel that way, does that mean that it's true?
00:17:45 I mean if it's your reality.
00:17:47 It's truly none of my business.
00:17:50 So we all have our own realities?
00:17:53 What if I said I want you to say that it's true that I'm a woman? Would you say that?
00:17:58 I would also say that.
00:18:00 I honestly don't care. Whatever makes you happy.
00:18:04 What's true to you can be false to me.
00:18:10 What if I said that my truth is that you don't exist? Does that mean you no longer exist?
00:18:15 I mean if that's your truth, sure. I don't.
00:18:18 But you do.
00:18:20 I mean if you're saying that I do, then I do.
00:18:23 Well, but even if I said that you don't, you still do because we're having this conversation.
00:18:27 I mean, are we?
00:18:29 I think so. I mean I thought...
00:18:31 That's what you think.
00:18:33 Well, I should have known it would be hard to define reality in Hollywood.
00:18:38 I should probably look to the place where truth is the foremost pursuit.
00:18:41 The American university.
00:18:44 What we do in gender studies is not just reduce gender to what psychologists might call individual differences,
00:18:59 but rather thinking about gender, and that's not women and men, but gender as a social form.
00:19:07 Something that kind of infuses itself into virtually all aspects of social life.
00:19:12 Let's talk about that then.
00:19:14 I guess we should start with, we've got gender and sex, right?
00:19:20 What's the difference between the two? Is there a difference?
00:19:24 I saw that in your questions and I thought, my goodness, this is what we spend an entire semester kind of thinking through.
00:19:30 What we tend to think about in the social sciences today is that sex refers to a set of biological characteristics,
00:19:38 and gender is a social construct or category.
00:19:43 What I think is often misleading about that characterization...
00:19:46 That is allowed to be sort of messy and complicated.
00:19:49 But in that framing, when you split them up into these wholly discrete constructs,
00:19:53 studies scholars, and really more specifically people who study gender and sex,
00:19:57 we're not talking about sexuality right now.
00:19:59 ...the kind of academic universe that I travel in is that we see how deeply gendered ideas,
00:20:04 cultural ideas about masculinity and femininity, maleness and femaleness, both in humans and in lots of other animals.
00:20:11 So are gender and sex two different things?
00:20:16 Well, I think that they both are and they aren't.
00:20:20 I'm comfortable saying that gender and sex are two different constructs, but they're deeply intertwined with each other.
00:20:27 If we're talking about gender and sex, and there's a lot of controversies there,
00:20:30 if we're talking about a trans woman has all of the male physical characteristics,
00:20:35 so would that not be a male then? Couldn't we plainly say this person is a male?
00:20:42 Well, I guess it's like, why are you asking the question?
00:20:47 I think I want to understand sort of why that's so important.
00:20:50 So if someone tells you...
00:20:53 I don't understand reality, you know?
00:20:57 Well, I mean, I think when someone tells you who they are, you should believe them.
00:21:01 So if a person says that they're a woman or they're a man, then that's them telling you who their gender is.
00:21:07 I'm not so sure what social interactions would have to do with maleness or femaleness that would...
00:21:17 I'm not even talking about social context. I'm just trying to start by getting to the truth, you know?
00:21:23 Yeah, I mean, I'm really uncomfortable with that language of getting to the truth.
00:21:28 Again, in social life...
00:21:30 Why is that uncomfortable?
00:21:32 Because it sounds actually deeply transphobic to me.
00:21:34 The truth?
00:21:36 And if you keep probing, we're going to stop the interview.
00:21:39 If I probe about what the truth is?
00:21:41 You keep invoking the word truth, which is condescending and rude.
00:21:44 I'm saying to you...
00:21:46 How is the word truth condescending and rude?
00:21:49 Why don't you tell me what your truth is, and you're walking on 30 seconds more of thin ice before I get up.
00:21:54 What my truth is? Well, I don't think I really have a truth.
00:21:58 I think that there's just the truth.
00:22:00 Like, the reality.
00:22:02 And so, we should begin by trying to figure out what the reality is.
00:22:06 Uh-huh. And why are you concerned with when someone else tells you that they're a man,
00:22:16 or even if they use the word male, why are you concerned with not believing them?
00:22:19 Well, you keep bringing it back to, you know, how do you respond in a social situation.
00:22:24 That's what I do. I'm a social scientist.
00:22:26 Well, right. But we're in a university. This is a place of understanding truth, isn't it?
00:22:30 Absolutely. We pursue truth, and I'm a social scientist, and that's what I do.
00:22:35 But you just said the truth is transphobic.
00:22:37 That you would say... If you're saying the truth is that I get to say, "You're not a man. Show me your genitalia," that's transphobic.
00:22:45 No, no, no. I don't want to see anybody's genitalia.
00:22:46 I just mean, someone can make a statement about themselves that could be untrue.
00:22:51 Like, for example, if I were to say that I'm a black man,
00:22:55 would you accept that, or would you be skeptical?
00:23:01 Are you? Black? Are you African-American? Are you biracial?
00:23:07 I don't think so.
00:23:11 I don't think that's a... It doesn't sound like that's a genuine statement of who you are.
00:23:15 Okay, so that's my point. I could make a statement about who I am that's incorrect.
00:23:22 Of course. I think it's well-established that human beings can lie, yes.
00:23:26 Or not even lie. I mean, I could just be mistaken.
00:23:29 Yeah.
00:23:32 I guess this all comes back... This all comes down to really one question.
00:23:40 Especially women, gender and sexuality studies.
00:23:43 So what... What is a woman?
00:23:48 Why do you ask that question?
00:23:55 I just really like to know.
00:23:58 What do you think the answer to that question is?
00:24:02 Well, I'm asking. That's why I came to a college professor who's...
00:24:09 This is your... This is what you do.
00:24:11 What other kinds of answers have you gotten?
00:24:15 A lot of like this, where you're not answering. I've gotten a lot of that, so...
00:24:23 I think it's interesting that you say that some of the people you've interviewed have been reluctant to answer it.
00:24:29 And I think that has a lot to do with the way... The questions that preceded it,
00:24:32 and the way that you've conducted yourself in the interview.
00:24:35 How have I conducted myself?
00:24:37 How do you think you've conducted yourself?
00:24:38 You just really don't want to answer the questions, do you?
00:24:44 I came today very willing and enthusiastic about answering questions about women's and gender and sexuality studies,
00:24:50 which is what I do.
00:24:52 So you wanted to answer questions about women's studies, and so...
00:24:54 Shouldn't the... The first answer you should be able to provide is what exactly is a woman?
00:24:58 Well, it's... For me, it's actually a really simple answer, and that's a person who identifies as a woman.
00:25:03 But what are they identifying as?
00:25:06 As a woman.
00:25:07 But what is that?
00:25:09 As a woman.
00:25:11 Do you know what a circular definition is?
00:25:13 I do.
00:25:15 It's sort of like what you're doing right now, where a woman is a woman.
00:25:21 Because you're seeking what we would call in my field of work an essentialist definition of gender.
00:25:28 I think it sounds like you would like me to give you a set of biological or cultural characteristics
00:25:34 that are associated with one gender or the other.
00:25:36 I'm not seeking any type of definition. I'm just seeking a definition.
00:25:40 Yeah, and I gave you one.
00:25:42 Well, now I can say I've been to college.
00:25:45 Glad I didn't pay for it.
00:25:47 Is there anyone willing to give me a straight answer?
00:25:50 Ideally, somebody with a bunch of medical degrees on the wall.
00:25:54 Dr. Grossman, thanks for talking to us.
00:25:57 You're a psychiatrist, a medical doctor, and you've done a lot of work in child psychiatry.
00:26:03 What is transgenderism from a psychiatric standpoint?
00:26:07 The best way to approach it is by speaking about gender dysphoria,
00:26:14 which is an intense loathing and discomfort with one's biological sex.
00:26:22 They exist anywhere between one in 30,000 people and one in 110,000.
00:26:32 It's important to distinguish those people from what's happening much more recently,
00:26:39 which is kids that never had any discomfort or dysphoria, as it's now called, with their biological sex.
00:26:49 And then quite suddenly, as preteens or as adolescents,
00:26:55 they come out and they announce that they are gender fluid or they start to question their sex.
00:27:02 So first, let's define the terms sex and gender.
00:27:06 Yes, please.
00:27:08 Sex is biology. Sex is unchanging.
00:27:14 It's based on chromosomes.
00:27:18 99.999% of the cells in the body are marked either male or female.
00:27:25 Gender, on the other hand, is a perception.
00:27:29 It's a feeling. It's a way of identifying. It's an experience.
00:27:34 Okay, that's subjective.
00:27:37 It sounds like what you're saying is that if a man is male but thinks of himself as a woman,
00:27:47 he's not actually a woman?
00:27:48 That's correct.
00:27:50 Male gametes. That's what makes me male.
00:27:54 No, your sperm don't make you male.
00:27:57 Then what does?
00:27:59 It's a constellation.
00:28:01 In reality. In truth. Okay?
00:28:04 Whose truth are we talking about?
00:28:06 The same truth that says we're sitting in this room right now, you and I.
00:28:08 No, you're not listening.
00:28:10 If I see a chicken laying eggs and I say that's a female chicken laying eggs,
00:28:14 is that a chicken female or am I just observing a physical reality that's happening in the world?
00:28:17 Does a chicken have gender identity? Does a chicken cry?
00:28:20 Does a chicken commit suicide?
00:28:22 Let's frame it. Because you're talking, you're trying to...
00:28:26 A chicken has sex like any biological organism.
00:28:28 A chicken has an assigned gender, but a chicken doesn't have a gender identity.
00:28:32 So we assign female to chickens when they lay eggs?
00:28:35 We assume they're female if they lay eggs.
00:28:38 Now I was told that really everyone agrees with the current approach to gender and transitioning kids and all of that.
00:28:46 And if you don't agree, that you're a dinosaur and a bigot.
00:28:50 So are you a bigoted dinosaur?
00:28:53 I'm not bigoted and I'm not a dinosaur.
00:28:55 I am rooted in reality and in science.
00:29:01 Whose reality?
00:29:03 There's one reality.
00:29:05 Girls, 200 meters, five feet.
00:29:07 The first race that I competed against a transgender athlete was during my freshman year.
00:29:13 And once the gun went off, the two transgender athletes took off flying and left all of us girls in the dust.
00:29:24 Throughout all four years of high school, I was forced to compete against biological males.
00:29:28 I only competed against them in the sprinting events.
00:29:31 But I raced against these athletes over a dozen times throughout the years and every single time I lost.
00:29:36 Did they inch you out of medals that you would have won otherwise or trophies you would have won?
00:29:41 They beat me out by 20 meters out of medals and qualifying spots.
00:29:45 I missed out on qualifying for New England's.
00:29:47 I had to go in the long jump and the 4x200 meter relay, so I was forced on the sidelines in my own event.
00:29:54 And if they were not there, I would have been able to qualify.
00:29:57 So I missed out on so much throughout my high school career.
00:30:00 Did they win all the events or almost all the events?
00:30:03 Between the two of them, they won every single event they competed in.
00:30:06 How does that feel?
00:30:08 It is so frustrating and heartbreaking because we elite female athletes train so hard to shave just fractions of a second off of our time.
00:30:16 And going into races knowing that we will never be able to win.
00:30:19 It feels like all that work gone to waste?
00:30:22 It does. After so many losses, it just gets to the point of why am I even doing this?
00:30:28 Why am I keep training so hard and sacrificing so much just to place third and beyond?
00:30:33 Case in Connecticut, there were two male track runners.
00:30:42 They were trans girls.
00:30:44 Right. And who decided that they were going to race against the girls.
00:30:47 And you look at those individuals, you look at their times against the men, against the boys.
00:30:55 They were kind of middle of the pack. And then they're racing the girls.
00:30:58 And they're, you know, first and second place.
00:31:00 Is that indicative of some kind of unfair advantage that those individuals might have against the girls?
00:31:07 No, it's not indicative of an unfair advantage.
00:31:11 And I think part of the proof of this is that more transgender girls are coming out in high school and still playing sports.
00:31:18 And they're not winning.
00:31:20 You know, the Connecticut case is the exception.
00:31:23 It got a lot of attention because those two trans girls performed well.
00:31:27 But there are many, many more trans girls competing in sports and they don't excel.
00:31:32 Because at the end of the day, whether or not you win a game is about how hard you work in your practice.
00:31:38 And most of us aren't going to win.
00:31:40 And that goes for transgender athletes, too.
00:31:43 Let's go, girls.
00:31:44 The norm is that transgender youth don't win that much in sports games.
00:31:57 Alana McLaughlin was very appreciative for Provost to take this fight.
00:32:01 I don't know how appreciative she is now, but she got a couple of punches in.
00:32:04 It is very much the exception when a transgender young person does win.
00:32:10 And it's because there's not really an advantage to being trans.
00:32:14 Only a few people are going to lead the pack.
00:32:17 There are some slight differences, but does it translate to a competitive advantage?
00:32:24 I think you'd be very hard-pressed to prove that.
00:32:37 If there was a big advantage to being transgender in sports, then we would see transgender women totally dominating.
00:32:46 And over the last half of the pool, nobody will touch Leah Thomas.
00:32:50 Man, I feel like a woman.
00:32:56 Transgender swimmer Leah Thomas breaking barriers and records.
00:33:00 But in a new article, Sports Illustrated calls the college senior the most controversial athlete in America.
00:33:07 Leah obviously helps us do better.
00:33:09 Leah's swimming really fast. Leah's performance helps the University of Pennsylvania swim team.
00:33:14 The feeling of winning doesn't feel as good anymore because it feels tainted.
00:33:18 There was a lot of things you couldn't talk about that were very concerning, like a locker room situation.
00:33:24 If you even brought up concerns about it, you were transphobic.
00:33:27 If you even bring up the fact that Leah's swimming might not be fair,
00:33:32 you were immediately shut down as being called a hateful person or transphobic.
00:33:36 But there's never any conversation? The coaches don't sit everyone down and acknowledge what everyone's really upset about?
00:33:43 So Penn actually brought in people high up in the athletic department to talk to us.
00:33:47 They brought in someone from the LGBTQ Center. They brought in someone from the psychological services.
00:33:52 So you're upset about what's happening, and so you need psychological help.
00:33:58 So at the end of this meeting, they said, "Look, we understand there's an array of emotions, but Leah's swimming is a non-negotiable.
00:34:03 However, we can help you make that okay. That's what we're here for."
00:34:07 So you're anonymous for this interview. Why did you decide that you can't have your face out there saying these things?
00:34:13 They've made it pretty clear that if you speak up about it and you say anything negative, that your life will be over in some way.
00:34:19 You'll be blasted all over the internet as a transphobe if you come out, and then you'll never be able to get a job.
00:34:25 Anyone who wants to hire you will look you up and see you're transphobic, and your life will be over.
00:34:29 Let's say that I identified as a woman tomorrow, and I wanted to go into the same locker room where you are.
00:34:38 Should I be allowed to do that? As long as I identify that way?
00:34:43 I don't know. I just feel that other women would be uncomfortable by you walking in there.
00:34:50 What do you think about transsexual men using women's toilets? Do you think that's okay?
00:34:56 No.
00:34:58 But tell me.
00:35:00 No, what's wrong with that?
00:35:02 There was a controversy at a health club in Koreatown over the issue of gender.
00:35:05 That's right. Video of spa goers complaining was posted on social media.
00:35:09 I just want to be clear with you. It's okay for a man to go into the women's section, show his penis around other women, young little girls, underage.
00:35:21 Your spa, we spa, could don't that. Is that what you're saying?
00:35:25 Like I asked.
00:35:27 Like I asked.
00:35:30 He can stay there. He can stay there?
00:35:32 Sexual orientation.
00:35:34 What sexual orientation? I see a dick.
00:35:36 Police identified the person involved as 52-year-old Darren Morager of Riverside County.
00:35:40 Morager, who has been a registered sex offender since 2006, now faces five felony counts of indecent exposure.
00:35:47 Hello, I'm Congressman Mark Takano.
00:35:49 Trans Month of Visibility is a time to recognize the strength, diversity, and resiliency of the transgender community.
00:35:58 We can make our country and our world a more accepting place by speaking out against transphobia at the source
00:36:03 and supporting the trans community by getting the Equality Act signed into law.
00:36:08 Congressman, thank you for being here. Thanks for joining us.
00:36:11 You are the first member of Congress who's a member of the LGBT community and also a person of Asian descent.
00:36:18 You're also a big proponent of the Equality Act.
00:36:21 Yes.
00:36:23 What is the Equality Act? If you were to just summarize it very briefly, I know it does a lot.
00:36:27 The simplest way to talk about the Equality Act is that it simply amends the 1964 Civil Rights Act
00:36:35 to include sexual orientation and gender identity. So public accommodations is one area.
00:36:42 What's a way that someone who's LGBT could be discriminated in public accommodations currently?
00:36:51 Currently, public accommodations is the whole area of hotels and motels.
00:36:59 Bathrooms and sports teams. Is that...
00:37:02 I'd say bathrooms, sports teams, athletic events.
00:37:06 Let's get into more specific policy issues. There are some women who say, and I've talked to a few who say this,
00:37:14 they say, "Hey, I'd like some privacy in the bathroom. I'd prefer not to encounter naked penises, frankly."
00:37:22 They say even that the penis is a telltale sign that someone is a male.
00:37:31 There are people who have kind of really bought into the rumor that only men have penises.
00:37:40 How do we account for that? How do you respond to that?
00:37:44 Well, what I would say is that most transgender people that I know,
00:38:07 and it's a very, I think, distinct minority of people.
00:38:13 It's a very... It is a very, I think... We're talking not about a lot of people.
00:38:21 I think a person who wants to use a woman's bathroom, who identifies as transgender,
00:38:30 really does think of themselves as a female.
00:38:33 So how we go about trying to respect their basic right to live,
00:38:43 I think will be an important part of this law.
00:38:49 With the law...
00:38:52 Bathrooms are where you want to take this conversation,
00:38:57 instead of the basic right to just life,
00:39:03 is something that I'm kind of mystified that you're kind of not focusing on first.
00:39:08 We're going straight to the controversy over bathrooms.
00:39:12 So, you know what? I think this interview is over.
00:39:16 I think this interview is over.
00:39:18 I just have one last question.
00:39:21 The interview is over.
00:39:22 We want to know what is a woman.
00:39:24 Please turn off the cameras.
00:39:26 Excuse me. So we're going to end the interview.
00:39:28 If you guys could please pack up and return to the office exactly as you did.
00:39:30 I just wanted to know. I came all this way to know what...
00:39:33 For the fair question, I just wanted to know what is a woman.
00:39:49 My trip to California isn't providing many answers.
00:39:52 But at least I'm making new friends.
00:39:55 You worry about kids walking around out here?
00:39:57 No, because I raised two daughters.
00:40:00 They're two of the most well-adjusted adults.
00:40:02 They grew up around naked people,
00:40:04 and there's been studies that have shown that children raised around non-sexual nudity
00:40:09 actually have fewer hang-ups when they're adults.
00:40:12 People do have hang-ups. There's a lot of things hanging right now during this conversation.
00:40:17 Can anyone be any gender they want to be? Can a man become a woman if he wants to be?
00:40:20 I leave the... I mean, what people do...
00:40:22 That's personal choice. People can live the life they want to.
00:40:26 I'm trying to live the life I want to, an authentic life.
00:40:29 That's why I respect other people's rights to choose what they want to do.
00:40:33 Well, why are you asking a gay man as to what it means to be a woman?
00:40:36 You should be asking women what it means to be a woman,
00:40:39 especially trans women, who... what it means to be a woman.
00:40:42 I'm asking all kinds of people. Can anyone have an opinion about it?
00:40:46 Only people who are women.
00:40:47 Gay men don't know nothing about what it means to be a woman.
00:40:50 Have you told gay men here in San Francisco that they're not allowed to talk about this?
00:40:54 No. But I have... It's not like I come around and say what a gay man is allowed to be.
00:40:59 So you're saying... So you're saying if you're not a woman, then you shouldn't have an opinion.
00:41:03 Where does a guy get a right to say what a woman is?
00:41:06 Women only know what women are.
00:41:09 Are you a cat?
00:41:11 No.
00:41:13 Can you tell me what a cat is?
00:41:15 [wind]
00:41:20 This is actually a genuine mistake. I am sorry I even came up here.
00:41:24 You want to tell us what a woman is?
00:41:27 [music]
00:41:31 If my friend in the purple hat is correct, and only women can tell me what a woman is,
00:41:36 I guess I need to go where the women are.
00:41:40 [music]
00:41:50 What is a woman? Can you tell me that?
00:41:53 [music]
00:41:58 You're at the Women's March. You must have some idea.
00:42:01 [music]
00:42:06 So I see girls, vagina. Does that mean they're the only people who can get pregnant?
00:42:11 If men can get pregnant too, I think they want the right to choose.
00:42:14 But men can get pregnant?
00:42:16 We're saying someone who was born as a woman, but identifies as a man.
00:42:20 Is that a man?
00:42:22 That real man.
00:42:23 It's a real man?
00:42:24 Yeah.
00:42:25 So men can get pregnant?
00:42:26 Yes. If we're saying...
00:42:28 If they have the parts to do so.
00:42:30 Is it just women that give birth?
00:42:32 I guess, yeah.
00:42:35 But that could be a man or a woman.
00:42:36 Well, I mean, I think that's the whole point, right? That it's fluid.
00:42:40 The way that we define these things changes a lot.
00:42:42 What are you doing here?
00:42:44 I'm asking these questions.
00:42:45 I'm trying to figure out what a woman is. That's why I'm here.
00:42:47 This is the Women's March. I figured this is a good place to find out.
00:42:49 I've come all this way to ask that question.
00:42:51 Can anyone tell me what a woman is?
00:42:52 You are not here for women! We ask you to leave!
00:42:55 What is that?
00:42:56 You're being harassed.
00:42:58 How am I harassing? I'm asking a question.
00:43:02 Hard body, hard choice!
00:43:04 Whose body?
00:43:05 Hard body, hard choice!
00:43:07 What is a woman?
00:43:09 Can anyone here at the Women's March tell me what a woman is?
00:43:12 Wear a mask!
00:43:14 How about you tell me what a woman is and I'll put a mask on?
00:43:17 Sir, tell me what a woman is and I'll put a mask on.
00:43:20 President Obama!
00:43:25 Mask off! Mask off! Mask off! Mask off! Mask off! Mask off!
00:43:33 Please, if one person could tell me what a woman is.
00:43:36 Do you guys know what a woman is by any chance?
00:43:42 No idea.
00:43:44 I've been all over America.
00:43:47 I still can't find an answer.
00:43:51 Maybe I'm looking too close to home.
00:43:54 Maybe I'm looking too close to home.
00:43:55 Maybe I'm looking too close to home.
00:43:58 [drums]
00:44:00 [drums]
00:44:10 [chanting]
00:44:24 [chanting]
00:44:39 We came a long way to come and talk to you guys.
00:44:42 Thousands of miles from America.
00:44:44 So thank you for inviting us into your tribe, first of all.
00:44:47 I can say it is my pleasure to meet you.
00:44:50 And I feel most welcome, but you are here to learn with me.
00:44:54 I'm here to learn with you too.
00:44:56 Great.
00:44:57 What's the right form here?
00:45:02 It's just...
00:45:06 Just with the elbow?
00:45:09 Yeah.
00:45:10 I mean, they're laughing, so I guess it's not good, but I thought it was pretty good.
00:45:16 Not good enough to be a man yet in your tribe, but...
00:45:18 What does a man do? What are his roles within the tribe?
00:45:22 The role of a man, you need to work for your woman.
00:45:26 Secondly, to have children.
00:45:30 If you have children and you don't have something to feed them, you are not still a man.
00:45:35 [baby crying]
00:45:37 [chanting]
00:45:44 [chanting]
00:45:49 There you go.
00:45:51 Alright.
00:45:54 Okay.
00:45:56 It's the best raw kidney I've had in my life.
00:46:11 What if a man decides that he wants to do the roles of a woman?
00:46:16 Doesn't exist?
00:46:30 What if a man decides that his gender identity is woman?
00:46:37 [speaking in foreign language]
00:46:41 A woman has her own duty, and a man has his own duty,
00:46:51 and a lady cannot do the duty of a man, and a man cannot do the duty of a woman.
00:46:56 Can a man become a woman?
00:47:01 [speaking in foreign language]
00:47:05 No.
00:47:06 No?
00:47:07 No.
00:47:08 What about a transgender?
00:47:10 Transgender?
00:47:12 No.
00:47:18 No?
00:47:19 It will look like, if you want to become a lady but you're a man,
00:47:23 you have something wrong in you.
00:47:25 Something wrong?
00:47:26 Something wrong in your family, something wrong in you.
00:47:29 What about if someone was non-binary?
00:47:33 Come again?
00:47:34 Non-binary?
00:47:35 Uh-huh.
00:47:36 Do you know, like non...
00:47:38 Like someone is...
00:47:41 You're not a woman, you're not a man.
00:47:43 Yeah, someone's like, someone is neither, they're something else, is that...
00:47:47 He's saying we have never seen things like those.
00:48:00 For a man, he has a penis, for a woman, he has a vagina.
00:48:04 So we know this is a lady, this is a man.
00:48:07 What if it's a woman with a penis?
00:48:10 Both.
00:48:12 Is that...
00:48:15 People are laughing, is that a dumb question?
00:48:28 They're just laughing because they have never heard something like that.
00:48:31 This is their first time.
00:48:33 Never heard it before.
00:48:34 A woman has a penis and she's a woman.
00:48:38 In my country, I can't go a day without hearing it.
00:48:40 We hear it every day.
00:48:41 So in my country, sometimes you'll hear people say,
00:48:43 a man will say that I'm a woman trapped in a man's body.
00:48:47 And so they say that I have a woman trapped inside me.
00:48:50 [Laughing]
00:48:51 They want to know, a woman has the breast.
00:49:04 Breast.
00:49:05 Secondly, she has a vagina.
00:49:08 Vagina.
00:49:09 And the question is, does this man deliver?
00:49:13 Does he deliver babies?
00:49:15 [Laughing]
00:49:18 No, not as far as I know.
00:49:20 The question is, let's say if you want to sleep a woman,
00:49:27 definitely you'll do sex.
00:49:29 Sex with a woman, yeah.
00:49:31 And you f*** the vagina, is it?
00:49:33 But for the man, where do you f***?
00:49:36 React to that question.
00:49:38 I don't know all the logistics of it.
00:49:41 [Laughing]
00:49:43 Based on what I'm saying, would you ever want to move to America?
00:49:48 [Laughing]
00:49:50 They say no, never.
00:49:56 What is a woman, if you had to give a definition?
00:50:00 She says, a woman delivered, a man cannot.
00:50:08 So it sounds like you don't spend a lot of time thinking about gender.
00:50:13 You just kind of live your lives, you don't think much about it?
00:50:16 [Speaking in foreign language]
00:50:19 He said, no, because we believe that's a God's plan.
00:50:23 God's plan?
00:50:25 He's saying that I'm shocked on what you're telling me.
00:50:29 You're shocked?
00:50:30 Yeah.
00:50:31 The Maasai people don't think much about gender,
00:50:35 but they have a firm sense of their identity.
00:50:38 It's clear that gender ideology is a uniquely Western phenomenon.
00:50:42 So where did all this come from?
00:50:44 Who came up with it?
00:50:46 And why?
00:50:47 Matt, I want to show this to you.
00:50:51 You're a parent, right?
00:50:53 Okay?
00:50:54 It's perfectly normal for ten years and up.
00:50:59 Here's just one page I want you to see here.
00:51:02 For ten and up, huh?
00:51:09 It's unspeakable what these people have done to our children.
00:51:14 When did that start?
00:51:15 When was it decided that we need to start teaching kids about this stuff at such a young age?
00:51:19 So I'll answer that with one word.
00:51:21 Kinsey.
00:51:23 Kinsey was a social reformer.
00:51:28 He wanted to rid society of Judeo-Christian values when it came to sexuality.
00:51:35 And he worked very hard to do that, and I would say he succeeded.
00:51:41 Kinsey would be very happy with our culture today.
00:51:45 His idea was that children are sexual from birth,
00:51:49 that we're all inherently sexual creatures from cradle to grave.
00:51:52 He believed that true happiness is found in a life of perverse sexual experimentation,
00:51:58 no matter the age.
00:51:59 What came out is that his research was fraudulent.
00:52:03 Kinsey based his fraudulent conclusions on data he collected from convicted sex offenders and child molesters.
00:52:09 His research was conducted in prisons, not everyday America.
00:52:12 He also performed horrific sexual experiments on children, some under the age of one.
00:52:18 His most influential book, Sexual Behavior in the Human Male,
00:52:21 contains an infamous chart called Table 34,
00:52:25 which documents the orgasms of very young kids, including babies as young as five months old.
00:52:31 But instead of suffering the consequences for his heinous actions,
00:52:34 he was, and still is, celebrated by academia and Hollywood.
00:52:38 His ideas form the foundation for sexual education in public schools today.
00:52:42 How do we get from this to you can choose your own gender?
00:52:46 Okay, well now we have another very important character, and his name was John Money.
00:52:52 John Money was a psychologist and professor at Johns Hopkins University.
00:52:57 Gender ideology was his brainchild.
00:53:00 In fact, he coined the terms gender identity and gender roles.
00:53:04 And according to Money, babies are gender neutral at birth,
00:53:08 and ultimately environment determines whether a person is a man or a woman.
00:53:12 Money was telling the world about his theory that a boy could be raised as a girl and do just fine, and vice versa.
00:53:20 And so Money tried out his theory on two young twin boys, the Reimer twins.
00:53:24 When the twins were eight months old and they went to be circumcised,
00:53:30 the first twin, whose name was Bruce, something went wrong with the machinery, and his penis was burnt off.
00:53:39 They stopped and didn't do a second circumcision on the other twin, as you might imagine.
00:53:43 And the parents, of course, didn't know what to do. How are they going to raise this child?
00:53:48 John Money convinced Bruce's parents to transition him into a girl.
00:53:52 Money also conducted sexually abusive experiments on the twins throughout their childhood,
00:53:57 including forcing them to simulate sex acts on each other.
00:54:00 He reported up to the age of 10 that this was a complete success.
00:54:05 Well, it wasn't true.
00:54:08 The results were a disaster.
00:54:10 Bruce could never fully accept his female identity.
00:54:13 Eventually, his parents told him the truth, and he chose to transition back to a boy, taking the name David.
00:54:19 As an adult, David spoke out about the abuse and the damage done to him by John Money.
00:54:24 The girls would do their things with their Barbies and things like that, and that wouldn't interest me.
00:54:31 And things such as trucks and building forts and, you know, getting into the odd fist fight and climbing trees,
00:54:40 that's the kind of stuff that I like, but it was unacceptable, so I'd never...
00:54:43 As a girl.
00:54:44 As a girl, I had no place to fit in.
00:54:47 The trauma that he and his brother and his entire family went through left deep scars.
00:54:54 His brother died of an overdose when he was 38, and then David died, committed suicide.
00:55:03 There was never a retraction or an apology from John Money.
00:55:07 Instead, his ideas were adopted by mainstream psychology, and they form the basis of gender ideology today.
00:55:13 Why don't more people know about John Money and Alfred Kinsey?
00:55:18 Evidently, there are forces that don't want this information out.
00:55:22 I never fit. I was an alpha female sales executive that kind of just didn't fit in any box.
00:55:33 When psychologists or somebody that I was in love with or whatever said that I was in the wrong body,
00:55:41 I started to think, "Well, maybe I am."
00:55:44 I'm a biological woman that medically transitioned to appear like a male through synthetic hormones and surgery.
00:55:56 I will never be a man.
00:55:59 Is it transphobic for me to tell the truth?
00:56:04 Why is it that in a couple hundred years from now, if you dug up my body, they're going to go,
00:56:08 "Yeah, that was a woman. Had babies."
00:56:12 Can you tell me about the procedures that you had?
00:56:17 I've had seven surgeries. I've had one stress heart attack.
00:56:21 I've had a helicopter life ride with a pulmonary embolism.
00:56:24 I've had 17 rounds of antibiotics.
00:56:28 I had six inches of hair on the inside of my urethra for 17 months.
00:56:33 Nobody would help me, including the doctor that did this to me, because I lost my insurance.
00:56:37 I get infections every three to four months. I'm probably not going to live very long.
00:56:43 Was there any real discussion of the risks and the side effects?
00:56:48 No. No, there's not.
00:56:52 And I know that people want to think that there is, but there's not.
00:56:56 The truth is that medical transition is experimental.
00:57:00 We have studies that said that medical transition helps mental health, helps mental health with kids.
00:57:07 They've all been retracted, modified, changed.
00:57:11 But the only long-term study tells us seven to ten years is when transgender people are the most suicidal.
00:57:19 After?
00:57:20 After surgery. But that's transphobic to say.
00:57:24 For the first time in history, a marginalized group has a huge dollar sign on the top of their head.
00:57:33 We have five children's hospitals in the United States promoting that.
00:57:43 What?
00:57:44 That's a phalloplasty. That's a bottom surgery.
00:57:46 We have five children's hospitals in the United States telling girls that they can be boys at $70,000 a pop in a surgery that has a 67% complication rate.
00:58:03 That will kill me from infection that I can't sue on.
00:58:08 We're butchering a generation of children because nobody's willing to talk about anything.
00:58:13 I have three kids at the age that they're doing this to kids.
00:58:22 I'm not transphobic. I love my kids and I love other people's kids and you should too.
00:58:30 This is wrong on so many levels.
00:58:35 Can kids consent? Do you think kids are capable of consenting to this?
00:58:39 No, they're not.
00:58:40 Being a parent is loving the hell out of your kids and helping them see around corners.
00:58:46 What's the youngest patient that you've operated on?
00:58:50 The youngest patient I've done vaginoplasty on is age 16.
00:58:57 Do you worry that minors just don't understand enough about themselves?
00:59:03 They're not neurologically developed enough yet to make permanent life-altering decisions?
00:59:08 Absolutely not.
00:59:10 A young person's self-perception, one day they may be clear, the next day they may be totally confused and not sure.
00:59:18 And you're affirming it with hormones that have never been used in this way in the field of medicine.
00:59:27 You're talking about puberty blockers?
00:59:29 Blockers and then opposite sex hormones.
00:59:31 At what age does the medical transition begin with medication?
00:59:36 So medical affirmation begins when the patient says they're ready for it.
00:59:41 So that could be a kiddo who is just starting puberty and panicking because they're getting breast buds
00:59:49 or their penis is getting bigger and busier and they're worried about all kinds of masculine changes.
00:59:55 And that way puberty blockers, which are completely reversible and don't have permanent effects,
01:00:02 are wonderful because we can put that pause on puberty, just like if you were listening to music.
01:00:08 You put the pause on and we stop the blockers and puberty would go right back to where it was.
01:00:14 The next note in the song just delayed that period of time.
01:00:19 You can just pause puberty.
01:00:20 No, you can't.
01:00:21 And then pick it up?
01:00:22 No, you can't.
01:00:23 For the future?
01:00:24 No, you can't.
01:00:25 How many studies do they have, long-term studies, on hormone blockers with children?
01:00:29 None.
01:00:31 I just spoke a month or two ago with a mother whose 14-year-old daughter was put on blockers.
01:00:42 They discovered after two years, this 14-year-old girl has osteoporosis.
01:00:47 That's something that, like, old women get.
01:00:49 How can doctors assure parents that a certain medicine is totally safe,
01:00:54 if based on what you're saying they can't possibly know that?
01:00:58 How can they be removing the healthy breasts of 15-year-old girls?
01:01:02 How can they be sterilizing kids?
01:01:06 How can this whole thing be happening, Matt?
01:01:09 Every child that they convince is transgender and in need of medical transition,
01:01:14 it generates $1.3 million to pharma.
01:01:18 And we're believing a pharmaceutical company, Lupron, hormone blockers, reversible, so they say.
01:01:26 Well, the truth is, is that in 2003, Lupron was sued and deemed a criminal enterprise by the U.S. government.
01:01:34 They paid the most fine of any pharmaceutical company at that time, $874 million, wrote a check.
01:01:42 Is Lupron chemical castration?
01:01:45 Yes.
01:01:49 We're giving it to pedophiles, aren't we?
01:01:51 We're giving it to people that are dying.
01:01:53 And we're giving it to kids, telling them that they were born in the wrong body and it's completely safe.
01:01:57 One of the drugs used is Lupron, right?
01:01:59 Which has actually been used to chemically castrate sex offenders?
01:02:04 You know what? I'm not sure that we should continue with this interview,
01:02:08 because it seems like it's going in a particular direction.
01:02:11 Well, you're a medical professional.
01:02:12 I am a medical professional.
01:02:14 So you don't want to talk about the drugs that you give to kids, or?
01:02:18 Again, I'm a physician and I use medication.
01:02:22 You're choosing exploitive words.
01:02:25 Drugs, I give to kids.
01:02:27 I'm choosing a word that was in a dictionary.
01:02:29 That's not a correct term for puberty blocking.
01:02:31 I could look it up on my phone, but I'm pretty sure if I looked it up...
01:02:34 You can look it up on your phone.
01:02:36 It says medical definition, the administration of a drug to bring about a marked reduction in the body's production of androgens and especially testosterone.
01:02:43 And I'm saying, as a pediatrician who takes care of hundreds of these kids, when you use that terminology, you are being malignant and harmful.
01:02:52 I mean, there are some who would say that giving chemical castration drugs to kids is malignant and harmful.
01:02:58 It's about the context of caring for a child and seeing the suffering that kids can have that have not been in affirmative home situations.
01:03:09 What do you say to the claim that, well, we have to do this for these kids?
01:03:13 Because if we don't, they'll kill themselves.
01:03:17 They'll resort to drugs and self-harm.
01:03:19 A lot of them were hurting themselves.
01:03:21 A lot of them were suicidal before they even discovered gender.
01:03:25 That is never part of the discussion.
01:03:28 And they say, "What would you rather have? A living daughter or a dead son?"
01:03:34 If this is what the professionals are saying, it's terrible emotional blackmail.
01:03:39 Hello?
01:03:44 Hey, is this ***?
01:03:45 This is, yes.
01:03:46 Hey, it's Matt Walsh.
01:03:48 Are you, where are you right now?
01:03:50 I'm in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada right now.
01:03:54 Are you able to leave?
01:03:56 I'm not able to leave B.C.
01:03:59 I can't even go to another province in Canada right now.
01:04:01 And it's because I'm technically out on bail.
01:04:05 What happened exactly?
01:04:07 How exactly did this get into the courts to begin with?
01:04:30 Right, so what happened is, we set up a meeting with B.C. Children's Hospital.
01:04:34 And according to the B.C. Children's Hospital website,
01:04:37 there's going to be a thorough evaluation.
01:04:39 And I'm thinking, "Good, this is going to be the end of it all."
01:04:41 They're going to clearly see that my child is not the opposite sex.
01:04:44 So my ex-wife brings my child into B.C. Children's Hospital.
01:04:48 I get a call less than an hour into that appointment.
01:04:51 They said they were going to pump her full of cross-sex hormones within the hour.
01:04:54 And I put a halt to that. I said, "No."
01:04:57 They agreed to stop for the moment.
01:04:59 They figured, "Well, let's get the dad on board, too. This is all going to be better.
01:05:02 Let's just get everybody on the same page."
01:05:04 I said, "It's not going to happen."
01:05:05 So I get a letter from B.C. Children's Hospital in December of 2018.
01:05:09 And it says that under the B.C. Infants Act,
01:05:11 they will start injecting my child with cross-sex hormones.
01:05:14 And I have two weeks to respond with legal action if I so choose.
01:05:18 And so that's how I ended up in court, because I did respond with legal action.
01:05:22 So you called your daughter a "she," and you went to jail for that?
01:05:28 It's considered criminal violence to not use the preferred pronouns.
01:05:32 It is no different than, let's say, I were to take a broomstick
01:05:35 and whack one of my kids over the head.
01:05:37 So they were treating it in a similar fashion that misgendering,
01:05:41 mispronouncing my child was the equivalent of family violence.
01:05:45 Is she on the hormone pills now?
01:05:48 She is. The court ordered that she could do whatever she wanted.
01:05:55 2010 until, I would say, 2016,
01:06:00 I would say 80% of my clients were trans youth.
01:06:04 Now it is you identify, you take hormones, you do surgery.
01:06:09 There isn't any other pathways.
01:06:12 So if you have two parents, one parent wants to affirm the trans identity,
01:06:17 the other parent doesn't, who wins that battle?
01:06:20 The one who wants to affirm.
01:06:21 Every time?
01:06:22 Every single time.
01:06:23 The goal is to get the parents to affirm the kid.
01:06:27 There's no such thing as a gender-affirming therapist.
01:06:35 That's a contradiction in terms.
01:06:37 Why?
01:06:38 Because you don't affirm if you're a therapist.
01:06:40 It's not your business to affirm.
01:06:42 You come to see me because there's something wrong.
01:06:44 Maybe you come to see me because a destructive element of you
01:06:47 is wreaking havoc in your life.
01:06:49 I'm on the side of the part of you that wants to aim up, man.
01:06:52 That's what I'm on the side of.
01:06:54 Okay, now I don't know what that means in your case,
01:06:56 but we're going to talk about it.
01:06:58 Am I going to affirm what you think?
01:07:00 No, it's not up to me to affirm it.
01:07:02 You don't get a casual pat on the back from a therapist
01:07:05 for your pre-existing axiomatic conclusions.
01:07:08 That's not therapy. That's a rubber stamp.
01:07:10 Is anybody at any point explaining to these kids
01:07:15 the real long-term consequences of hormones and puberty blockers?
01:07:20 I don't think they're explaining it to the kids.
01:07:23 That has frightened me, that it's become--
01:07:26 that we're even talking to the kids about it at 10.
01:07:29 We're presenting it in schools.
01:07:31 So this generation, they're the lab rats.
01:07:34 Biological sex, binary.
01:07:38 It's been binary for like 100 million years, longer than that.
01:07:41 Temperament is not binary. Temperament or personality.
01:07:44 So it's gender. Temperament is gender?
01:07:46 Well, gender is not a good word because it's vague,
01:07:51 and it isn't measurable.
01:07:53 So do we need it? Why can't we just say temperament?
01:07:55 Why do we even need the word gender for it?
01:07:57 Well, I don't need it.
01:07:58 But what I would say is that people who talk about
01:08:01 the diversity in gender are actually talking about
01:08:04 diversity in personality and temperament,
01:08:06 but they don't know it.
01:08:07 You can have a masculine temperament if you're a woman.
01:08:10 Maybe one in ten women have the average temperament of a man.
01:08:14 And you can have feminine men temperamentally.
01:08:16 And it's not that uncommon because the differences
01:08:18 between men and women temperamentally aren't that great.
01:08:21 There are masculine girls. There are feminine boys.
01:08:24 What are we going to do about that? Carve them up?
01:08:27 You as someone who started your professional life,
01:08:31 you know, transgender care.
01:08:33 Yeah.
01:08:34 Now you're sitting here talking to me.
01:08:37 And I'm a dangerous man, I've been told.
01:08:40 Mm-hmm.
01:08:41 Are you worried about reprisals?
01:08:43 Are you worried about how this is going to play
01:08:46 among your professional peers?
01:08:48 I am worried that I can't have conversations
01:08:50 with any other peers.
01:08:51 I don't know any other peer that will speak to me
01:08:55 around these things that question it.
01:08:57 I just don't think developmentally
01:09:00 this is helpful to our children.
01:09:03 You step wrong as a therapist.
01:09:05 You say the wrong thing once and like your bloody career is over.
01:09:08 And now it's the same with physicians.
01:09:10 How's that going to work?
01:09:11 You going to go have an honest conversation
01:09:13 with your physician when he's terrified out of his mind
01:09:16 that he'll say something politically incorrect
01:09:18 during the diagnostic processes?
01:09:19 Hey man, you're sick with whatever you want to be.
01:09:22 See you later.
01:09:24 You want a prescription for something?
01:09:26 I left academia because the climate had become
01:09:29 too stifling politically,
01:09:31 especially when it comes to the topic of gender identity
01:09:34 and the science of gender.
01:09:35 It is absolutely impossible to do good research.
01:09:38 You basically have to decide beforehand
01:09:40 what you're going to find so that you don't upset activists
01:09:43 and that is not how you do science.
01:09:45 Why has this shift occurred where all of a sudden
01:09:47 gender and sex have become so politically
01:09:50 and culturally charged?
01:09:52 There's a really ugly history between sex researchers
01:09:56 and transgender activists.
01:09:57 In the past, if any sex researcher spoke out
01:10:00 about science that went against activist orthodoxy
01:10:04 or particular narratives that activists wanted to promote,
01:10:07 they would basically have their personal
01:10:09 and professional reputations ruined.
01:10:11 So what you see is that only experts who toe the party line
01:10:14 and say the things that activists like,
01:10:16 those are the people who get attention,
01:10:18 those are the people who get lifted up in the media.
01:10:20 And also I would say people are incentivized
01:10:22 to go along with the activist narratives
01:10:24 and gender ideology because that helps their career.
01:10:27 Trans is very cool.
01:10:28 Trans is a way of giving yourself value
01:10:32 given the way society at the moment is functioning.
01:10:35 All of the things that used to give us anchors of identity
01:10:39 have become very fluid or very volatile in recent years.
01:10:43 And into that context, I think what you find then
01:10:46 is new identities start to fill the void or the vacuum.
01:10:50 Whereas in the past, I might have got my sense of self-worth
01:10:53 from being part of the village where I grew up.
01:10:55 Now I might get my sense of self-worth
01:10:58 through being part of the online community that I connect with
01:11:02 or part of the sexual identity community.
01:11:05 So now we are seeing kids that are identifying
01:11:09 as animals going to school,
01:11:11 and they are purring instead of answering questions,
01:11:15 and they meow, and the teachers are not allowed to question it
01:11:20 because it's considered a queer identity.
01:11:22 So you have kids that are going to school,
01:11:25 and they're saying, "I'm a cat,"
01:11:28 and the teachers have to affirm them as a cat.
01:11:32 Yes, so it's not just the young--
01:11:34 The schools are literal zoos now, basically.
01:11:36 They are.
01:11:37 [meows]
01:11:40 I am a 27-year-old transgender woman.
01:11:43 I am a wolf-therian and a member of the furry fandom.
01:11:46 When and how did you discover this inner wolfness?
01:11:50 Probably around age 10 or 11.
01:11:52 I was watching an anime about wolves
01:11:55 and see the wolf running across the screen,
01:11:58 and I'm somehow just intrinsically like, "Oh, that's me."
01:12:01 Have you spent any time around biological wolves?
01:12:04 Yes.
01:12:05 That sounds dangerous also. What context are you--
01:12:08 So I was a volunteer with a preserve,
01:12:10 and I've also visited many wolf preserves.
01:12:13 Are you able to communicate with the wolves?
01:12:17 Am I going to have a conversation with a wolf
01:12:20 in the way that I'm communicating you and I?
01:12:22 Obviously not.
01:12:23 Am I going to read their body language,
01:12:25 respond appropriately to their behaviors
01:12:28 and their nonverbal cues? Yes.
01:12:30 Would you be able to give us an example
01:12:33 of this wolf communication?
01:12:35 No. I'm not comfortable doing so.
01:12:38 Okay, all right.
01:12:39 How exactly have these ideas become so pervasive?
01:12:45 First of all, I think we need to remember
01:12:47 that in the West at least,
01:12:48 we have it drilled into our minds from childhood onwards
01:12:51 that personal happiness is the key to individual flourishing.
01:12:55 Secondly, we think of ourselves in psychological terms.
01:12:58 I am my feelings, and in order for me to be happy,
01:13:01 I have to be able to express my feelings.
01:13:04 I have to be outwardly
01:13:05 that which I feel myself to be inwardly.
01:13:08 Thirdly, we're taught that interfering
01:13:10 with somebody else's happiness is very bad.
01:13:13 We need to acknowledge that there are powerful lobby groups,
01:13:16 powerful cultural and political lobby groups
01:13:19 driving this thing.
01:13:20 Hollywood is pressing LGBTQ+ matters in so many movies.
01:13:26 We're seeing it in the way Amazon sets up its algorithms.
01:13:30 There are all kinds of factors in society
01:13:32 that are pushing what would really be numerically
01:13:36 a fairly minority interest
01:13:38 into being one of the main political focal points
01:13:42 of this generation.
01:13:44 After my operation, I will be a woman.
01:13:50 Why can't she just be a lesbian?
01:13:53 'Cause she's not a lesbian, Mom.
01:13:55 She's a boy.
01:13:56 Because I was born in a girl's body.
01:13:58 Can I ask you a question?
01:14:00 Why don't you kiss me?
01:14:02 The whole idea of social contagion,
01:14:04 that there could be something in one's social environment
01:14:07 that could play some role
01:14:08 in somebody coming out and identifying as trans,
01:14:11 do you think that that is definitely part of your story?
01:14:14 When I look back, I don't think I would have ever even considered
01:14:18 seeing myself as a boy without these social aspects,
01:14:22 especially if I hadn't joined these online communities.
01:14:25 I identify as non-binary.
01:14:29 I'll officially be changing my pronouns to they/them.
01:14:31 My pronouns are he/him and demon/demon/self.
01:14:34 I've been going by they/them pronouns for four years now.
01:14:37 I'm pretty comfortable with it.
01:14:39 They/them pronouns!
01:14:40 There was literally a period of a few weeks to a few months
01:14:44 I started out as an ally,
01:14:46 and then eventually I was starting to identify as transgender.
01:14:49 We are trans models.
01:14:50 So they go on the Internet and they're told
01:14:52 that all of their problems will be solved if they become a man.
01:14:56 Kids are being taught you might feel like you're a boy,
01:14:59 even if you have a vagina and you're a girl,
01:15:02 you are what you feel you are.
01:15:04 Some people are girls, some are boys,
01:15:05 some are both, some are neither.
01:15:07 Gender is all about how we feel on the inside
01:15:09 and how we express ourselves.
01:15:11 Ah, the genderfluid teacher!
01:15:13 What do I go by in the classroom?
01:15:14 I go by Teacher Fambrini.
01:15:16 As a queer and trans teacher,
01:15:17 my agenda is to show little boys
01:15:19 that they don't have to be, like, as stereotypically masculine,
01:15:22 that they can, like, paint their nails and wear earrings
01:15:24 and, like, still be a guy and, like, it can be cool.
01:15:26 We worry that there could be a sort of social contagion element of this.
01:15:31 A teeny tiny bit, maybe.
01:15:35 When I first came back on it, it was the same pattern,
01:15:37 just kids who were really struggling,
01:15:39 kids who were very alone and isolated.
01:15:42 They have anxiety.
01:15:43 They don't fit in with their peers.
01:15:45 They don't know where they belong.
01:15:47 Maybe they didn't have a welcoming family life.
01:15:50 They just got caught up in these communities online.
01:15:53 Then they discover, hey, there's this group of people,
01:15:56 and they also don't fit in.
01:15:57 They're different.
01:15:58 They're not sure who they are.
01:16:00 Gee, that's where I fit in.
01:16:02 Today is the day before my top surgery.
01:16:04 I am waking up tomorrow at 5 a.m.
01:16:06 to have a subcutaneous mastectomy.
01:16:08 We're telling children, when they haven't fully developed,
01:16:11 that all you have to do is medically transition,
01:16:15 and you fit in.
01:16:16 I was one of those kids.
01:16:18 It got me at 42.
01:16:20 Your child doesn't have a chance.
01:16:24 Trends are right.
01:16:28 This is only going in one direction.
01:16:30 You will respect us.
01:16:33 [baby crying]
01:16:35 As parents come to understand more about gender identity,
01:16:39 kids are coming out at younger ages.
01:16:41 It's exciting.
01:16:42 And you know who gets it right?
01:16:44 It's this next generation.
01:16:46 The next generation who's already telling us
01:16:49 that our antiquated ideas of things have to be a certain way
01:16:53 just don't apply to them.
01:16:55 They're rejecting a lot of our social mores.
01:16:59 They're tweaking the system.
01:17:01 ♪♪
01:17:05 I just don't think it's realistic to put this decision on them
01:17:09 that is basically saying, "Are you okay with the risk
01:17:13 of permanent health effects that you can never, ever reverse?"
01:17:18 How can you ask that of such a small child?
01:17:21 I'm a physician, and I use medication.
01:17:28 Certainly it's a bit of a Faustian bargain.
01:17:31 Puberty blockers, which are completely reversible.
01:17:35 You keep invoking the word "truth,"
01:17:40 you're just condescending and rude.
01:17:42 Some women have penises, right?
01:17:44 Some men have vaginas.
01:17:47 Does a chicken cry?
01:17:48 Does a chicken commit suicide?
01:17:51 I'm not a woman, so I can't really answer that.
01:17:54 I guess because I got a dick.
01:17:58 ♪♪
01:18:02 ♪♪
01:18:13 Somehow this madness has infected our entire society.
01:18:18 Am I the crazy one?
01:18:20 I'm done asking questions.
01:18:23 [ Crash ]
01:18:26 Tanner Cross is on administrative leave
01:18:28 for what he said about gender identity.
01:18:30 He said he would not call a student who's transgender
01:18:33 by their preferred pronoun.
01:18:34 I can't lie to children, and I got to also represent
01:18:37 a whole community that believes in biological facts
01:18:39 and scientific facts, and I just can't do that to kids.
01:18:42 You get into teaching because you love kids.
01:18:44 This policy started coming into play,
01:18:46 and I was like, "Wait a minute.
01:18:48 It's causing me -- I'm going to have to lie to my kids,
01:18:51 the ones I've always wanted to protect."
01:18:53 Do we have assaults in our bathrooms,
01:18:57 in our locker rooms regularly?
01:18:59 To my knowledge, we don't have any records
01:19:02 of assaults occurring in our restroom.
01:19:04 [ Indistinct shouting ]
01:19:07 Hey, listen to what happened!
01:19:09 The predator transgender student is -- or person --
01:19:13 simply, it does not exist.
01:19:15 The Virginia Department of Education says
01:19:17 it is now reviewing whether the Loudoun County School District
01:19:20 has properly reported cases of sexual assault.
01:19:23 This comes after a 15-year-old was charged
01:19:25 on two separate occasions for assaulting
01:19:27 two different students at different schools.
01:19:30 [ Suspenseful music plays ]
01:19:32 Dozens rallying in Loudoun County
01:19:34 to protest the school's policies.
01:19:36 So that includes limiting who can talk
01:19:38 during public comment portions of board meetings.
01:19:40 One speaker leased property in the area
01:19:42 just so he could speak tonight.
01:19:44 Fox 5's Paris Jones is live with the details.
01:19:47 That's right. Conservative commentator Matt Walsh
01:19:49 told me he's leasing out someone's basement in Loudoun County
01:19:53 so he'd be able to speak during tonight's meeting.
01:19:56 I decided last week to fulfill my lifelong dream
01:19:59 of being a, um, a Loudoun County resident.
01:20:02 You know, I've always felt like -- I've lived in Tennessee.
01:20:05 I felt sort of like a Virginian trapped in a Tennessean's body.
01:20:09 Um, I identify as sort of state fluid, I guess.
01:20:12 This is Matt Walsh.
01:20:13 He tweeted, "How do you do, fellow Virginian?"
01:20:16 [ Suspenseful music plays ]
01:20:18 Now I just got to explain to my wife and kids
01:20:20 that we're going to be staying in someone's basement.
01:20:23 [ Suspenseful music plays ]
01:20:28 They tried to muzzle me by not allowing me to speak.
01:20:32 And when that didn't work,
01:20:34 they tried to muzzle me with a mask.
01:20:36 [ Suspenseful music plays ]
01:20:39 I would thank you all for allowing me to speak to you tonight,
01:20:41 but you tried not to allow it, yet here I am.
01:20:44 Now, you only give us 60 seconds, so let me get to the point.
01:20:47 You are all child abusers.
01:20:49 You prey upon impressionable children
01:20:50 and indoctrinate them into your insane ideological cult,
01:20:53 a cult which holds many fanatical views,
01:20:55 but none so deranged as the idea that boys are girls and girls are boys.
01:20:59 By imposing this vile nonsense on students
01:21:01 to the point even of forcing young girls to share locker rooms with boys,
01:21:05 you deprive these kids of safety and privacy
01:21:07 and something more fundamental, too, which is truth.
01:21:10 If education is not grounded in truth, then it is worthless.
01:21:14 Worse, it is poison.
01:21:15 You are poison.
01:21:17 You are predators.
01:21:18 I can see why you try to stop us from speaking.
01:21:20 You know that your ideas are indefensible.
01:21:22 You silence the opposing side because you have no argument.
01:21:25 You can only hide under your beds like pathetic little gutless cowards
01:21:30 hoping we shut up and go away, but we won't.
01:21:34 I promise you that.
01:21:36 [ Suspenseful music plays ]
01:21:40 [ Music continues ]
01:21:43 Johnny's a boy with a big imagination.
01:21:51 One day he's a dog, the next day a crustacean.
01:21:56 Johnny's mom loves her son's make-believe time.
01:22:03 You're Johnny the walrus till you change your mind.
01:22:09 Matt Walsh is out with a new children's book.
01:22:12 The book is called "Johnny the Walrus."
01:22:14 What is this about?
01:22:16 It sold out on Amazon in a few hours.
01:22:19 I have embraced my true calling as a children's author, hence the cardigan.
01:22:23 The book is about a little boy who's very imaginative and playful.
01:22:27 Like, I have four kids, and they all have an imagination.
01:22:30 And he likes to pretend to be different things,
01:22:32 and one day he pretends to be a walrus.
01:22:34 And unfortunately, his mother is very progressive.
01:22:37 She's very progressive and thus confused,
01:22:39 and so she's convinced by the Internet and by society
01:22:42 that if your child is identifying as something,
01:22:45 then he really is that thing.
01:22:47 And so she tries to raise her child as a walrus,
01:22:50 as a sort of trans walrus, respecting his self-identity.
01:22:53 And one morning, he came downstairs barking and clapping,
01:22:57 with spoons for tusks and sock fins of flapping.
01:23:00 He had spoons in his mouth. He was pretending to be a walrus.
01:23:03 [ Laughter ]
01:23:04 "I'm Johnny the Walrus," he said with a roar.
01:23:07 [ Speaking in native language ]
01:23:13 [ Music ]
01:23:17 -This is a hot topic. -Yes.
01:23:19 -That's a good thing, right? -Yeah, absolutely.
01:23:21 It's good for us to have these conversations
01:23:23 so people open their minds and relearn and unlearn to what we've been taught.
01:23:27 So I want this to be a safe place to talk about and learn.
01:23:31 As you can see, there's an ongoing evolution of language
01:23:35 and how people can identify.
01:23:36 My next guest, author and conservative host of "Daily Wire's"
01:23:40 "The Matt Walsh Show,"
01:23:41 talking about his recently published children's book
01:23:44 that has since been removed online by a popular large retail chain.
01:23:50 Now, Matt says gender is not a social construct,
01:23:54 but rooted firmly in biology.
01:23:57 -True? -True.
01:23:58 As human beings, we have a sex, male or female.
01:24:01 That is a biological, scientific fact.
01:24:03 Now, gender is a linguistic term.
01:24:05 Words have gender. People don't.
01:24:07 You can have whatever self-perception you want,
01:24:09 but you can't expect me to take part in that self-perception
01:24:13 or to take part in this kind of charade, this theatrical production.
01:24:16 You don't get your own pronouns,
01:24:18 just like you don't get your own prepositions or your own adjectives.
01:24:21 It's like if I were to tell you,
01:24:23 "My adjectives are handsome and brilliant,"
01:24:26 and no matter-- whenever you're talking about me,
01:24:28 you have to describe me as handsome and brilliant
01:24:30 because that's how I identify.
01:24:31 So you think it's a delusion?
01:24:33 Well, this is one of the problems with this left-wing gender ideology,
01:24:36 is that no one who espouses it can even tell you what these words mean.
01:24:40 It's like, "What is a woman?"
01:24:41 Can you tell me what a woman is?
01:24:43 No, I can't.
01:24:44 Womanhood is something that is an umbrella term.
01:24:47 -It includes people who-- -That describes what?
01:24:50 People who identify as a woman.
01:24:53 What is that?
01:24:54 What's to each their own.
01:24:56 Each woman, each man, each person
01:24:58 is going to have a different relation with their own gender identity
01:25:00 and define it differently.
01:25:01 You want to reduce women, you want to reduce men
01:25:03 down to maybe just their genetics, our genitals, our chromosomes, right?
01:25:07 That's what you're saying, that's what we're identifying.
01:25:09 What you want to do is appropriate women.
01:25:11 You want to appropriate womanhood
01:25:13 and turn it into basically a costume that can be worn.
01:25:16 Joining us on stage is Dr. Suzy Denbo,
01:25:19 associate professor at Kent State University.
01:25:22 Dr. Denbo, how do you feel those who oppose using pronouns
01:25:27 are taking the wrong approach in this conversation?
01:25:31 There's the extreme approach that you are admittedly taking,
01:25:34 and then there's also just ordinary people
01:25:36 that might not be comfortable with the language change.
01:25:39 She began by saying that my view is extreme.
01:25:42 The view that every single person on Earth
01:25:44 has held up until 15 seconds ago is extreme.
01:25:46 They are conflating gender and sex because on one hand they say,
01:25:49 "Well, you've got your biological sex, but then your gender is whatever social construct."
01:25:53 But then they turn around and say that trans women are women.
01:25:56 So a man who identifies with the gender,
01:26:00 the social construct of womanhood, actually is a woman.
01:26:03 Part of me wants to ask why you care so much,
01:26:06 because it's really not that big of a deal.
01:26:08 Can I answer that? I care about the truth.
01:26:11 So basic truth matters.
01:26:12 I want to live in a society where people care about the truth.
01:26:14 I care about children, and these insane ideas about gender
01:26:18 are being foist on kids, and that bothers me quite a bit.
01:26:23 I care about the women who are having their opportunities stolen from them.
01:26:26 I care quite a bit, yeah.
01:26:27 I wanted us to have a safe place to be able to talk about this,
01:26:32 and it seems like we should just keep the dialogue going
01:26:35 and hopefully find some middle ground.
01:26:40 [♪♪]
01:26:43 [♪♪]
01:26:56 [♪♪]
01:27:02 [♪♪]
01:27:05 [♪♪]
01:27:11 [♪♪]
01:27:15 What do you say to parents, a parent comes to you and says,
01:27:21 "My 8-year-old son is telling me he's a girl"?
01:27:24 Yeah, great.
01:27:25 You're going to have them do an experimental procedure
01:27:28 that creates the most suicidal ideation of any other population
01:27:31 7 to 10 years after transition.
01:27:34 And here's what I tell parents--
01:27:36 you don't have the right to medically transition your child.
01:27:43 We have no research on long-term hormone use.
01:27:47 We will be seeing the first generation of long-term hormone use,
01:27:51 and we already know at least with 10 years of hormones,
01:27:54 you're giving yourself cancer.
01:27:57 What's your message to parents who are trying to cope with this?
01:28:00 The first thing is to tell parents that they're not alone.
01:28:03 It is our responsibility as a parent to be the front-line defense for our children.
01:28:07 And I know with my child, a lot of people will say, "Was it worth it?"
01:28:10 because you now seemingly have lost your child.
01:28:13 And I'll say, "Yeah, but at least I've saved my conscience
01:28:15 and my morals and my convictions."
01:28:17 And when my child turns 25 and says, "Dad, where were you?"
01:28:20 I'll say, "I was there. I was fighting as hard as I could.
01:28:23 I was not prepared to let this happen."
01:28:26 [♪♪]
01:28:30 [cheering]
01:28:32 Does this really matter is another question.
01:28:35 It matters for those who are getting double mastectomies
01:28:39 when they're 16.
01:28:42 Why should we care if we live in a society where gender is--
01:28:45 Well, I cared because my government decided that I had to call people
01:28:49 by the terms that they designated,
01:28:52 or I'd be subject to legal penalties.
01:28:54 It's like, "No. I'm not doing that."
01:28:58 I don't care what your reason is.
01:29:01 You don't get control of my tongue.
01:29:03 We live in a climate now in which no one seems to care
01:29:08 about the safety of women and girls who are going through
01:29:11 a very developmentally challenging time in their lives.
01:29:13 They may not want to share spaces with their male peers.
01:29:16 I would not be surprised in a few years,
01:29:18 there will no longer be women's sports.
01:29:21 It will literally be men's sports and transgender sports.
01:29:25 The question being asked by the trans person is a legitimate one.
01:29:28 How can I be happy?
01:29:30 The answer being given by having my body transformed
01:29:34 to look like the other gender,
01:29:36 by having myself pumped full of hormones,
01:29:38 clearly isn't working.
01:29:40 And we have to find a better and a more humane way
01:29:43 of dealing with individuals who are struggling with gender dysphoria.
01:29:46 I have the utmost compassion for people who suffer from gender dysphoria.
01:29:53 It's a nightmare for them and their families.
01:29:57 The vast majority, up to 90% of kids,
01:30:01 if they go through a normal puberty, they're going to be okay.
01:30:05 They will be at peace with their bodies,
01:30:07 and they will have avoided dangerous and experimental
01:30:11 medical interventions and surgeries.
01:30:14 Maybe we're up against a battle here, up against a hill,
01:30:17 that perhaps, you know, we're not going to necessarily win today.
01:30:22 But if we don't pave the way for a win, we'll never get there.
01:30:26 So we're going on this journey.
01:30:31 Boys can be girls, girls can be boys.
01:30:33 Men can be women, women can be men.
01:30:36 It makes me wonder, what is a woman?
01:30:40 What is a woman?
01:30:41 A woman is someone who claims that as their identity.
01:30:45 It could be many things to many people.
01:30:47 I think the question really brings up
01:30:50 the fact that it is pretty relative, right?
01:30:53 If you ask women across race, across identities,
01:30:57 across class, across culture, you will get a different answer.
01:31:02 Some of it is, you know, based on biology.
01:31:05 Some of it is based on hormones.
01:31:07 Some of it is based on what you wear and how you present yourself.
01:31:11 A woman is not anything in particular.
01:31:13 There's no one particular thing.
01:31:15 There is not one particular thing.
01:31:17 A woman is someone who says that she is a woman
01:31:21 and transitions to be a woman.
01:31:22 Who says that she's what?
01:31:24 Can you define the word "woman" without using the word "woman"?
01:31:31 That's actually kind of like, it's a curious question, but I...
01:31:37 We've been journeying across the country asking people this question
01:31:46 and almost nobody can answer it.
01:31:48 What is a woman?
01:31:50 What is a woman?
01:31:51 Marry one and find out.
01:31:53 So I should go home and ask my wife, I guess.
01:31:57 Yeah.
01:31:58 Hey, I've been meaning to ask you something.
01:32:11 Uh-huh.
01:32:15 What is a woman?
01:32:16 An adult human female.
01:32:23 Who needs help opening this?
01:32:27 [♪♪♪]
01:32:30 [♪♪♪]
01:32:33 [♪♪♪]
01:32:35 [♪♪♪]
01:32:46 [♪♪♪]
01:32:48 Can you provide a definition for the word "woman"?
01:33:10 Can I provide a definition?
01:33:13 Mm-hm.
01:33:14 I can't.
01:33:15 You can't?
01:33:17 Not in this context. I'm not a biologist.
01:33:22 So you believe the meaning of the word "woman" is so unclear and controversial
01:33:25 that you can't give me a definition?
01:33:28 Senator, in my work as a judge, what I do is I address disputes.
01:33:36 If there's a dispute about a definition, people make arguments
01:33:40 and I look at the law and I decide.
01:33:43 So I'm not...
01:33:44 The fact that you can't give me a straight answer about something as fundamental
01:33:51 as what a woman is underscores the dangers of the kind of progressive education
01:33:57 that we are hearing about.
01:34:00 Just last week, an entire generation of young girls
01:34:05 watched as our taxpayer-funded institutions
01:34:09 permitted a biological man to compete and beat a biological woman
01:34:15 in the NCAA swimming championships.
01:34:18 What message do you think this sends to girls who aspire to compete
01:34:23 and win in sports at the highest levels?
01:34:27 Senator, I'm not sure what message that sends.
01:34:33 If you're asking me about the legal issues related to it,
01:34:37 those are topics that are being hotly discussed, as you say,
01:34:43 and could come to the court.
01:34:46 [♪♪♪]
01:34:50 [♪♪♪]
01:34:53 [BLANK_AUDIO]
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