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FunTranscript
00:00No, you don't feel insane and I certainly don't want any sympathy. We're way past that.
00:04Why?
00:05Why?
00:06Yeah.
00:07Because I'm a prince.
00:09So?
00:09No, well, thank you for saying that. That's great.
00:22Prince Harry, welcome to One More Question.
00:25Usually I do an intro, but with you it honestly, frankly, felt absurd.
00:31Okay. What would your intro have been though?
00:34Great question. I was going to ask what your intro for you would have been, but...
00:39I never get to give my own intro.
00:40Can you do it right now?
00:41No.
00:42Okay. Veteran, humanitarian, best-selling author, member of the royal family, father, husband, author of a new masterclass on grief,
00:55how's that?
00:56It's about right.
00:57It's better than normal.
01:00What's normal?
01:00Well, you know, it depends on where you are.
01:02It depends on who's giving you the intro, but that seems to be the most representative intro, so I'll give
01:06you that one.
01:07Okay. All right. Thank you.
01:08We're taping this in New York.
01:10You just moved back to the UK.
01:12How come?
01:16Opportunities.
01:19For the family, being able to put the kids in a British school has meant a lot to me.
01:26I didn't know how important it was to me.
01:28I always thought it was going to be something that I would try and do or that we would try
01:30and do.
01:31But now they've been in school for two weeks.
01:35They're loving it.
01:36And it's just giving them a whole different experience.
01:38Don't worry.
01:39I'm not criticizing American schools.
01:41But I think for kids at seven and five, to be able to have that comparison and to have two
01:46completely different cultural experiences is so important today.
01:48But yeah, to be back closer to my family and to be back on UK soil for longer than a
01:57few days or a week here or there.
01:59You know, so it's nice to be back.
02:01What is that feeling like to be back?
02:04It's been nice to be close to friends, family, friends and friends and their children as well.
02:10To be able to have endless play dates to really like help our kids settle in.
02:15Well, uprooting a family is like gnarly, right?
02:18Like two kids, like you guys, you guys have done this once like relatively recently doing it again.
02:23I imagine it's not, it's not easy.
02:25No, it's not.
02:27Look, there's no part of anything really that's easy anymore.
02:31For you.
02:32No, for lots of people.
02:33Yeah.
02:33For lots of people.
02:34But, you know, and this wasn't something that we planned for a long time.
02:38It's something that we've thought about and we've considered.
02:40But for us, when certain stars align and it's clear that this should or probably will end up being the
02:48case, then we lean into that.
02:51Was it more of a US thing, like what life was like here or more something that you were sort
02:56of craving back then?
02:57I would say a combination of both.
02:59Yeah.
03:00I think that having been here for six years now and only being able to go back to the UK
03:06for short periods of time, to actually have my whole family there with me.
03:11The place that I grew up wanting to be able to show my kids where I grew up and have
03:17them have the experiences to some extent that I had, the good rather than necessarily the bad.
03:24Provided real, yeah, proper serious thinking as to this is an opportunity, let's do it now.
03:31Good to be outside of the US for the next few months, perhaps.
03:36Let things settle down for a bit and then we work it out from there.
03:40But like, we've had plans in the past.
03:44And I think for lots of people, it's like, if you're going to make a big move like this, that's
03:47going to take a lot of planning.
03:48For us, it was very short.
03:51There were reasons why you guys left in the first place, you know, certain circumstances there, whether media or stuff
03:58like that.
03:59You know, you've talked about why you guys left.
04:02Has that stuff changed materially?
04:04Do you think it's going to be different or do you have a different attitude about it?
04:07How are you thinking about that?
04:10I think a combination of two of those.
04:13I think that certainly our attitude has changed.
04:17In what way?
04:18Well, it's your one more question thing.
04:21I'm sorry.
04:22It's okay.
04:23It's your job.
04:24I think once you've been through it, once you've been able to talk about it and raise awareness to it,
04:34then people see it for what it is, which makes the environment slightly easier.
04:39And it's not going to necessarily stop the behavior.
04:42But then that's the second part, which I think the behavior, my hope is that it will change.
04:47You know, what happened back then was then what's happened over the last six years has been a continuation of
04:53that.
04:54But there is, you know, some battles that have been fought, necessarily so, but hopefully we can all draw a
05:03line under that.
05:05And, you know, with everything else that's going on in the world, there's aspects of the past that I'm sure
05:11all of us, me, my family, some of the British press, that we'd all like to leave that behind us
05:17and work for the greater good.
05:19Yeah.
05:20Yeah. And it sounds like you're actually optimistic about that.
05:23I am optimistic.
05:24I'm hopeful.
05:25I'm not naive.
05:26I have been naive in the past.
05:28But I think it's important to remain optimistic.
05:31And I think a large part of this is about respect as well.
05:35And, you know, I can respect them if they respect me and our position.
05:39Our position is really quite clear now.
05:42And hopefully we can get on with life.
05:46I've let too much time pass already before asking the most important question, which is how are you?
05:51How are you?
05:53I'm good.
05:54Yep.
05:55I know why you asked that question.
05:56For those that don't know, you have a masterclass on the subject of grief.
06:00Yep.
06:01And in it, you talk about how you gave the same answer to that question for more or less 20
06:06years.
06:07Every day, same answer, which was?
06:08I'm fine.
06:09Which I think a lot of people do, you know?
06:13I think a lot of us, when someone is suffering from anything, grief, loss, trauma, just a bad day,
06:21we're so good at, some people don't ask at all.
06:24But I think those of us who are friends and companions or work colleagues, if you say,
06:30how are you?
06:31It's a sort of natural reaction to say, I'm fine.
06:33And then everybody sort of moves on.
06:35You've done your part.
06:36You asked.
06:36And you've done your part by saying, I'm fine.
06:40But underneath that, I've always felt, certainly from my perspective, there was always more.
06:45If someone had asked us the further up, the follow up question, are you sure you're fine?
06:50I don't think that would have changed my response.
06:52My follow up question today was going to be, are you actually good?
06:55No, I am good.
06:55I'm exhausted.
06:56As tired as you are.
06:57You've just come off a red eye.
06:58I've been in New York for the last three days.
07:00So it's interesting to be jet-lagged in New York where it's normally the other way around.
07:04But no, I'm, yeah, I'm exhausted.
07:07But the work that I've done over the last few days and the work that I do, that's the stuff
07:12that energizes me.
07:13Yeah.
07:14Being around good people, trying to make an impact in the world.
07:18That is genuinely what energizes me.
07:20Yes.
07:21And I'm in a much better place now than I was 10 years ago.
07:26In what way?
07:29You heard the self-consciousness, the follow up question.
07:32It's going to come.
07:32They're going to come.
07:33I'm going to ask those questions.
07:34Yeah, yeah, yeah.
07:36There is, there's a really interesting thing about grief.
07:39Like it's very personal for people.
07:41It's very individual to those, to that person's circumstance.
07:46But I've learned to, I guess, accept and understand that you don't ever get over grief.
07:51You live with it.
07:52You learn to live with it.
07:53And also I've never wanted to get over the grief.
07:55And that was where I was stuck many, many years ago was the fact that, you know, if I,
08:01if I give up on the grieving, does that mean I give up on the memory of my mother?
08:04And at the same time, if I become happy, is that a betrayal of her memory?
08:10And, you know, in the Masterclass series, in the lesson of which, you know, I've always
08:16considered myself, and certainly for Masterclass, a student of grief.
08:21And the expert is Dr. Mary Frances O'Connor.
08:24But, you know, as a scholar that you did this with.
08:26Yeah.
08:27An expert, you know, who's been studying, you know, grief and loss for decades.
08:33And she also lost her own mother as well.
08:35She's been studying what does that do to the brain and the body.
08:41But, you know, sitting here now, recently turned 42 years old, had I known what I know now,
08:49back when I was 12, my life would have been very, very different.
08:52And I just, the point of Masterclass is to be able to give as much of my experience,
08:59combined with Dr. Mary Frances O'Connor's scientific experience, professional experience,
09:07and combine those two things to be able to give as much guidance and as many tools as possible
09:12to those people who are grieving or have faced some form of loss.
09:16It doesn't have to be a family member or a friend. It could be a pet. It could be loss
09:20of identity.
09:21It could be your job. It could be a limb.
09:24It really is one of the most universal aspects of being human.
09:29And yet within society, we are encouraged to suppress those feelings and those emotions.
09:35You've talked about this. That was your personal experience after your loss was that you were basically encouraged,
09:40if I understand correctly, to really not acknowledge it publicly or even, it sounds like, privately to some extent.
09:47Yeah, but I think that's the same for so many families and so many cultures as well.
09:52You know, there are cultures around the world where, in the opposite sense, you are encouraged to grieve.
09:58And for three or five...
10:00That's not the one you come from.
10:01No, but is it the one you come from?
10:03No, not really. No, no, no.
10:05So, it doesn't come across as a, certainly from my standpoint, it's not a criticism.
10:11But now as a 42-year-old man with two kids, a boy and a girl, you start to learn
10:18very quickly
10:18and you start to look back at your past and your parents as to what you have carried from them,
10:25what they've handed over to you, what you want to take on, what you don't.
10:29And again, culturally, within your own family, there are certain things that you can do to,
10:34I guess, help your kids through that, despite what may be the case at school or within the country.
10:40Or you've talked about, in your family, sort of breaking a pattern of the way that your father was parented
10:45and the way that you were parented and trying to do it differently, right?
10:47Yeah. I think that's probably the same for many, many parents.
10:53If the world around you is changing, then you can't stay the same.
10:57Again, from a British standpoint, what's really interesting, and maybe this is larger than a British standpoint,
11:01but so many people over the years have said, you know, oh, he's changed.
11:04It's like, well, so I'm no longer falling out of nightclubs drunk?
11:07Is that what you wanted for me? You know?
11:10Do you think that's what they mean?
11:11No, yes, to some extent. Like, I was, you know, that was entertainment for a lot of people, especially the
11:16press.
11:16Is that a fair characterization of the way that you ever were?
11:19No, no, no, of course not, because the work was the work and the play was the play.
11:23And I was quite good at trying to balance the two.
11:25But, you know, when I was young, you know, was I going out and having a good time with friends?
11:30Yes.
11:30Was I sometimes doing that to suppress the sadness of losing my mum? Yes.
11:36Was I aware of it at the time? Absolutely not.
11:39Well, you talk about this in the class, the different ways in which grief can manifest and it can be
11:45anger, irritability or depression.
11:48And for you, how did it manifest?
11:51All of it. Yeah.
11:53You know, I think more so, I think what is more relatable to people is the distraction piece to it.
12:00You know, the busyness of life, the fact that, you know, when when when it happens, everyone's there for you.
12:07But then they quickly not disappear, but everybody moves on as if to say that grief is there's a beginning,
12:15a middle and an end.
12:16And from what I've learned from from Dr. O'Connor is that's that's the opposite to how it is.
12:23It's like it's like this every every day throughout your life. It's not like, oh, we're going to get over
12:28it.
12:29It's like today's this tomorrow is that next week is this the next month is this.
12:33So there's that's just that's just reality.
12:36But I I love the fact that I'm able to now sort of carry the memory of my mother with
12:45me, with my work, rather than it hold me down, pull me back or me wallowing in that grief.
12:52I don't think I ever wallowed in it.
12:54I don't think I was ever allowed to. I don't think it never really occurred to me.
12:58But I think that, you know, us as human beings.
13:03Funny that it didn't occur to you because to wallow in it because everyone knows what happened.
13:11But what happened was extraordinarily traumatic.
13:13You lost your mother when you were 12 years old in a horrific way in front of the world.
13:17That's the kind of thing where, like, I mean, I genuinely wonder, like, does something break inside a person when
13:24something like that happens?
13:27I don't know if it breaks you, especially when you're that young.
13:30I don't think you can really fully comprehend what's happened.
13:34I think that certainly over a period of time, the resilience inside of each of us starts to grow over
13:44time.
13:44And it's up to us to know ourselves.
13:48Back then, I didn't know myself.
13:49The grief, the trauma, the loss, the fact that I was 12.
13:52I had no idea who I really was.
13:55But over the years with life's challenges, it does and has grown this resilience inside of me to realize, wow,
14:04this grief can either hold you back or it can help you grow.
14:10You talked about basically suppressing your feelings for 20 years or so.
14:14What has life been like for you since you stopped doing that?
14:21Better and harder.
14:23In what way?
14:24Well, therapy was the thing that really changed it for me because it gave me permission to grieve and to
14:31acknowledge the fact that, yeah, losing your mom really sucks.
14:33And you're allowed to cry about it.
14:35You're allowed to.
14:36Another thing you didn't do for 20 years is cry.
14:38Yeah, just by trying hard.
14:41But again, I think the harder you try to cry, the harder it becomes to actually pull that off.
14:46But yes, crying eventually feels great.
14:49It really does.
14:51The suppression of grief, the suppression of feelings is a really interesting thing.
14:54But when I tried therapy, it didn't take me that long to realize, wow, I've been numb to this.
15:03So when I talk about, yes, it's become easier and become harder or better and harder.
15:07It's become better for so many different reasons because now I can be really emotionally connected to my friends, family
15:13and specifically my children.
15:15But at the same time with the state of the world, I'm now more sensitive to things that back then
15:20I was probably more numb to.
15:22Yeah.
15:22So I look at it in a very interesting way.
15:23It's like, wow, for today or this week, I wish that I was still.
15:27Still numb.
15:28That guy.
15:28Really?
15:29Yeah.
15:29Genuinely.
15:29How often do you feel that way?
15:31Luckily, not too many times.
15:33Yeah.
15:33But having had one foot in that world and another foot in this world, I try to find the right
15:39balance.
15:40And life is about balance, right?
15:41There are some times when you need to be able to block it out and there are other times when
15:45you need to be vulnerable and be open to it.
15:47And my therapist said something very interesting to me or my first therapist said something very interesting to me from
15:52the this is from the UK.
15:54He said, try to imagine yourself in a glass jar with the lid open and all the negative stuff, the
16:00stuff that you don't want to come in, just have it bouncing off the side.
16:02You get to choose what comes over the top and in.
16:05Now, that was, I don't know, probably more than 10 years ago.
16:10Yeah, about almost exactly 10 years ago.
16:12Have I perfected that?
16:14No.
16:15Am I still trying?
16:16Yes, absolutely.
16:17But, you know, there's what's in our control and then there's what's not in our control.
16:21And you've just got to manage that and have the perspective of the things that really hurt can be really
16:27good lessons for you.
16:28When you mentioned the glass jar, my mind went somewhere else, which is…
16:34Cold fish?
16:35Yeah, a little bit.
16:36Cold fish bowl?
16:37Cold fish bowl.
16:37Yeah.
16:38Yeah, exactly.
16:40And thinking about your years of being in a difficult place with grief, which I think would be hard for
16:48anyone.
16:48And all the stuff that you just mentioned, the seeking of distractions and not really knowing how to process it.
16:56And then for you, there's this additional thing of the intensely public nature of the life that you're leading.
17:01I can't imagine that did anything but exacerbate those feelings.
17:05Yeah, pressure is a real thing.
17:07But it's all relative in different contexts.
17:12My goal here with being able to share my story, share a part of my story.
17:19And for the years that I've always shared elements of that, I don't do it for myself.
17:24Like anyone who is grieving, anyone who has grieved or had significant loss in their life will probably say the
17:32same thing, which is I've shared what I need to share in order to help heal.
17:38But for me, I know because I continually get told by everybody from 90 year olds down to nine year
17:45olds that the sharing part of my experience, sharing part of my story has helped them.
17:52And as long as that's the case, then I'm always going to try and make it easier for other people.
17:58It doesn't matter whether it's one or a million.
18:01I saw you tell in the masterclass, I think it's in your book as well, this, you know, after your
18:06mom died, you walk in this procession and you're touching these hands that are wet with tears.
18:15People are crying for your mother that they've never met.
18:19I'm not sure I could come back from something like that.
18:22What do you mean, come back from that? No, I'm not. I'm the one asking you questions.
18:26Let's go.
18:28There is something uniquely intense imagining a 12 year old processing that and also the way that the memory is
18:38clearly stuck with you.
18:40That, yes, I tried to imagine, like, could I could I have experienced that and gone on, you know?
18:51Of course you could. That's the thing. Like we as human beings, we're constantly tested.
18:57Yeah.
18:57And look, let's not forget, I'm a prince. Right. So all of the resources to me should have should have
19:03been available for the reasons that we've discussed.
19:06They weren't always available. But, you know, could I afford it? Yes. Was it accessible? Yes.
19:13You mean therapy?
19:14Therapy. Yeah.
19:15Yeah. But you weren't doing it.
19:16Any kind of result. No, I wasn't doing it back then. But I'm just saying that, you know, my experience
19:20is my experience.
19:21And yes, the world saw it. I mean, still to this day, if I ask anybody or people very often
19:27come up to me and say, I remember exactly where I was on that day in 1997, 31st of August.
19:33And yeah, when you when you're surrounded by people and, you know, different generations of where they can remember exactly
19:40where they were when that happened.
19:42And then they look at me and all my brother and go, wow, you guys were teenagers, not even.
19:50And this happened to you on such a public, a public, a public scale. Where do you go from that?
19:55And that's, again, from my standpoint, it's like, well, you've already seen my whole life.
20:00It's I don't have a choice in that. So the least I can do is try to sort of give
20:06back in a sense that this is actually what perhaps I was thinking then and how I've sort of recovered
20:13from that.
20:13And I hope that that gives some encouragement to people that when you are rock bottom and when you're finding
20:19things really, really hard, that you can come back from that.
20:21And look, at the end of the day, Zach, so much of this is about community and support of those
20:27around you and understanding that grief isn't just that moment.
20:30You know, someone years later might have a complete breakdown and that's when they need you the most as opposed
20:36to the day after when it happened.
20:38You also talk, you guys talk in the class about how grief takes many forms.
20:45Forgive me because I don't know the details here. And details of what?
20:50Here comes the question. You have talked about at times having a complicated relationship with your brother, your father.
20:58Is that something that you grieve?
21:05Yes, of course. I think from a family perspective, again, another massively relatable issue for so many people.
21:12People, you know, there's sibling disagreements.
21:18There's broken relationships between, you know, kids and their parents, kids and one parent.
21:24Like that's that that is that continues to come up with me the whole time by people that I speak
21:29to.
21:29I'm sure. So I know how relatable it is.
21:31That's probably why there's so much fascination in the everybody's family, everyone's family.
21:36And then people maybe look at us and go, how are you going to work it out?
21:39And then maybe how I see you're going to work it out.
21:41Maybe that will help me work my stuff out. And some people don't.
21:44How are you going to work it out?
21:45Well, some people don't want it to work out. I want it to work out. You do.
21:48Of course I do. Yeah.
21:49There's no again with everything else is going on in the world.
21:52The most important thing is to is, you know, is to reconcile.
21:56That's the key point.
21:57Well, so much of the class two is about this idea of repair, right?
22:00Like that grief is is not an inevitable fact of something that can be repaired.
22:04And so like the follow up to that would be, you know, is this is this wound something that you
22:09think you can repair?
22:10Yeah, of course. I think every look scars, scars stick around forever.
22:14But how you how what your perception is and what your mindset is to those things that have happened.
22:22Certainly letting go of the past.
22:25That's something that I would encourage everybody to do.
22:28If there's certain things from the past that are still affecting your every day, that's harder to let go of.
22:32But, you know, for me, it's the there's enough drama in the world and enough drama in people's lives than
22:41to continue with issues with family.
22:46You know, it's just like not it's not worth it.
22:50If that's hard to say to people when you're in it.
22:53Yeah. Yeah.
22:54I mean, are you on good terms with everyone in your family?
22:57Maybe you're maybe maybe you're not.
23:02But this is the first time you're about to share that you're not.
23:04And they suddenly realize, but I thought we were on good terms.
23:06Well, now I feel like the way you feel where I'm just watching them watch this and be like, is
23:10he going to talk about me?
23:12I would say generally, yes.
23:13You know, I mean, I think the thing you asked about my family, you didn't ask for this confidence,
23:22but I know your father's been sick. Mine was diagnosed with prostate cancer a few years ago.
23:28He's actually doing well.
23:29But another thing that watching your class made me think of is I felt in moments almost in kind of
23:35anticipatory grief.
23:37If that makes sense. You know, where you sort of start contemplating.
23:40I wonder if you felt something similar.
23:42Yeah. Yes, I have.
23:46And I think that that is perhaps helpful.
23:52But do you know what I mean?
23:53I think that, you know, again, it's the one thing that we are all going to experience,
23:57which is the loss of a parent, both parents and the loss of friends.
24:01That's universal. It is universal.
24:04Well, you've done a lot of chattel work and I think a lot of thinking about PTSD.
24:11Thanks for referring to it as PTSD.
24:13Right. Because yes, instead of PTSD.
24:17I would think having suffered the traumatic death of a parent,
24:22that something like this could be very triggering in that respect.
24:25What?
24:26Having a sick, sick parent now.
24:31Yes, but he's, you know, he's getting better.
24:36So, yeah, I think there's a big difference between losing one parent and losing two
24:41from the friends of mine that have lost two.
24:43They go, well, now I'm an orphan, even if you're in your 40s or 50s.
24:46Yeah.
24:47So it's an interesting, I'd never heard someone say that to me before.
24:49I was like, wow, I hadn't considered that.
24:52But then also I've always thought to myself since I was a young kid and conversations with other friends of
24:57mine,
24:57which is if you had a choice, what would you choose?
25:04To have a parent ripped away from you suddenly without any preparation
25:10or having the long-term suffering but the ability to say goodbye?
25:15And it turns out that there...
25:17I want to know your answer.
25:18There is no answer because, you know, I've got friends and family who are suffering from cancer.
25:28I've had a mum that was taken away from me too soon and I speak,
25:31I've spoken very openly about one of my biggest regrets is that last phone call I had with her.
25:38If I'd known it was the last call with her, how different that conversation would have been?
25:43And I'm the one that has to live with that.
25:45And the fact that as a 12-year-old kid, all I wanted to do was go off and run
25:48and play with my cousins.
25:50And you have to know that. You have to know that.
25:53Especially as a parent yourself now.
25:55Of course, of course.
25:58But before I was a parent, that was a sort of bit of guilt and stuff that just really stuck
26:02with me.
26:03It was like heavy.
26:05And then, yeah, when you become a parent, of course it changes things.
26:10Yes, yes.
26:11I mean, I haven't even asked you, like when it comes to grief and loss, what is your experience of
26:17this?
26:18I have a surreal experience.
26:19It's sort of what I was alluding to earlier, which is that both of my parents have had relatively bad
26:25forms of cancer that they both have survived.
26:27So I've had the anticipatory grief and I have many friends who have lost one or both parents.
26:34In fact, I had a conversation with my father, but he was sort of preparing me for his death, if
26:38we're being honest with each other.
26:39And I kind of was like, I haven't experienced this, but I barely have a friend who hasn't.
26:47Like, you don't have to tell me that this is going to happen.
26:49Yeah.
26:51But also, I sit here knowing that I do not know what is coming and I cannot be ready for
26:56it.
26:58How would you prepare yourself for it?
27:03I mean, watching the class, does that help?
27:07Of course it helps.
27:08I mean, I think you in general sharing your story helps.
27:11Well, anyone sharing their story should help.
27:13Yes, yes, yes.
27:14That's the point of it.
27:15Yes.
27:17Well, I have a journalist mind, so there's a certain vividness to the version of it that you experienced,
27:23which is easy for me to wrap my, not easy for me to wrap my head around, but there's, I
27:28mean,
27:28how many books have been written about this?
27:30It's literally narratively sort of out there.
27:34But also, yeah, the way that...
27:36How many books have been written about what, grief?
27:38No, about your family and your mother and all that.
27:41Oh, yeah, yeah.
27:41I mean, thousands.
27:42Yeah.
27:42I wrote one, but they all wrote thousands.
27:44Yeah, yeah.
27:44Well, I was going to ask you about this too, because I feel like that you make stuff.
27:49You know, like, I feel like I don't...
27:51I'm not a royal family expert, but it's not characters...
27:54You look like you are.
27:55You're wearing a blazer.
27:56I mean, it's half the whole...
27:57Let me in.
28:01It feels like the way that you, you know, you wrote this book.
28:06You made this masterclass.
28:07You, when you guys came to California, you, you know, you were, you were doing Hollywood
28:11stuff and production stuff and, but that's not kind of like common for your family, right?
28:20To make stuff.
28:21Yeah.
28:21But it's storytelling.
28:21Yeah.
28:22You know, it's, it's, it's being in certain situations and, and being able to use and
28:29yeah, use creatively the platforms that are available to be able to share stories.
28:34So like my whole life, my whole background is charity.
28:37Yes.
28:37And what I realized very quickly when I moved over here was charity is so much at the downstream
28:45end.
28:45Yeah.
28:46What can I do with my life that is more upstream?
28:50That's, it's not about putting charity out of business, but, but if, if the problem now
28:57exists and it's so big that it needs charitable support, then what can you do other than put
29:02a, put a ban, a plaster or a bandaid on it?
29:05Yeah.
29:06So, you know, my work with better up for instance, online coaching platform was really focused
29:10on the upstream.
29:11Like if we can, you know, democratize and basically get as much coaching out there as possible
29:16from everyone, from the CEO to the janitor in these large corporations, large businesses,
29:21then hopefully they won't, won't be in the situation that I was, which is lying on the
29:24floor in the fetal position in your kitchen.
29:27Which is the thing that happened, which was the thing that happens for so many people.
29:30Well, I'm asking about you though.
29:31Yeah.
29:32Yeah.
29:32That's, that's, that's, that's a reality.
29:34Yeah.
29:34Right.
29:34It's just interesting how life, you know, pans out.
29:37It was like, wow, the sooner that you can get to know yourself.
29:42And what I mean by that is actually like who you are, what is your identity?
29:46What are the things that you love doing the things you, what are the triggers?
29:51What are the things that you know that you should avoid?
29:54And how do you have, what is your shield?
29:57The moment you are able to establish those things, then you know yourself better.
30:02You can protect yourself better from the things that are outside of your control.
30:06So I now know how to grieve.
30:09I know that, you know, when the next person in my close life, you know, passes and I lose
30:15them, I don't know how I'm going to react.
30:18I assume that I'm going to break down and cry.
30:20And if I can't cry, I'm going to be like, come on, how are we in this situation again?
30:23How are we back here again?
30:24How are we back here again?
30:25Come on, after all these years.
30:27But you know, I, I find myself getting very emotional about, in all sorts of different
30:31situations.
30:32And normally it's, but there's a whole crowd of people, there's cameras and stuff like
30:35that.
30:35And it might be a really happy moment.
30:37I'm like, whoa, where's that come from?
30:39And I just feel like, well, maybe I just, maybe the tears here, it's not just contained to
30:43this moment, but it's connected to so many other moments in my life as well.
30:47Yes.
30:48Yeah.
30:48And then I go, and I don't cry because I'm in front of everybody.
30:50And then I go home and go right now, cry.
30:52Nope, moment's passed.
30:55That's, I mean, what you're describing is very difficult, which is like, I feel a feeling,
31:01but I'm being observed, so I can't fully feel it.
31:04And then I got to go home and recreate it and it's not there.
31:06And you must feel insane.
31:08No, you don't feel insane.
31:09And I certainly don't want any sympathy.
31:10That's where we're, we're way past that.
31:12Why?
31:13Why?
31:14Yeah.
31:14Because I'm a prince.
31:17No?
31:18No.
31:18Well, thank you for saying that.
31:19That's great.
31:20But I've, you know, I've, I've got a support network around me.
31:25I've, I've done, you know, different forms of therapy and I've, I've put in the work,
31:29right?
31:30I didn't have to.
31:31I wonder where I would be if I didn't.
31:33Yeah.
31:33You know, it could be very different, a different situation.
31:37And 10 years in the military, um, really grounded me.
31:41It gave me a set of, uh, a specific set of skills.
31:44Um, but it gave me, um, it gave me a certain set of values that I will live by for
31:53the rest
31:53of my life.
31:54It's such an interesting thing that you bring that up.
31:56Cause I was reflecting on the fact that it's clearly a very important chapter in your life.
32:01And, and it seems like among maybe before marriage and kids, the happiest that you kind
32:05of ever were.
32:06Um, yeah, well, it was, it was, you know, what was weird.
32:08It was, it was an escape for me and I didn't realize what it was doing for me then or
32:13what
32:13I was using it to get away from.
32:15Um, I was running from something and being in the military gave me the perfect distraction.
32:20And I was also the perfect candidate, highly, highly adrenalized 20 something year old.
32:27Um, you can make a joke about this in your book.
32:30It's like divorced parents, like lost mother, like, come on down.
32:33Yeah.
32:34Yeah.
32:34And strip away the title and who I am and everything else is like, you come from a broken home.
32:39And so many people come from broken homes.
32:41And actually when it comes to recruiting, we are very good at recruiting from broken homes.
32:45And it, and, and highly adrenalized individuals will operate really well in, in, in uniform.
32:52Um, but this is when, you know, post-traumatic stress and lots of that stuff comes up and
32:57where the research shows that so many of the, so many of us who have served operationally,
33:02who might be suffering from some form of post-traumatic stress, that the, the incident was the trigger.
33:07But what it has now opened up is, is.
33:11Proceeds service and everything else.
33:13Proceeds service and it's, it's, it's childhood trauma.
33:15Yeah.
33:16Of which so many of us carry.
33:18Some of us are aware of it.
33:19A lot of us aren't.
33:20Right.
33:20And it's also a place where the guy next to you, isn't going to turn to you and have a
33:27really emotional conversation.
33:28No.
33:29No, of course not.
33:30Well, that's again, like the cultural aspect, right?
33:33Yeah.
33:33But we are encouraged as men.
33:34Yeah.
33:35Not to, not to be vulnerable.
33:37Yeah.
33:37But then the moment that you have kids, you realize that you need to be vulnerable.
33:40Yes.
33:40And I've said over, over and over again for years and years and years, like being vulnerable
33:44is not weakness.
33:46It is strength.
33:47Especially the fact that in my life, I will defend my family with full strength.
33:52But at the same time, I can be the vulnerable individual, whether it's as a husband or whether
33:56as a father.
33:57And again, it goes back to balance.
33:59I think the balance is absolutely key.
34:01You can't just be this, you know, macho dude who has no sensitivity, is unable to be vulnerable
34:07and is basically just a douche.
34:10Yes.
34:10Although it's interesting.
34:11I have, I have two young children and I think about this because they're still at the age
34:16where they, they think I'm kind of can do everything, you know, and I'm like Superman.
34:20And it is great.
34:20But then I'm like, well, can I show vulnerability?
34:22Am I going to like puncture that, that idea that their dad is invincible?
34:26You know?
34:27Yeah.
34:27Well, they, they, they need, they need to know that you are not invincible.
34:30Yeah.
34:31I think is the key.
34:32Yeah.
34:32You know, none of us are invincible.
34:33And certainly in the military, we always had this ability to be able to kind of put on
34:37the cloak.
34:37The uniform was the cloak.
34:39It's like, I am invincible.
34:40And that mindset certainly got yourself into shit, but also out of shit.
34:45But you, but you've, we all have got to learn when to take that cloak off.
34:49Yeah.
34:49And it's not always wearing the cloak and it's not always not wearing it, but it's finding
34:54the right moments to go, okay, this is when I need to be this version of me.
34:58And this is when I need to be this version of me.
35:00You say, I think you say in a class that you think about your mother almost every day.
35:07Yeah.
35:07What do you think about?
35:09Is it like a happy memory, a sad memory?
35:11Is it advice?
35:12Is it like, what do you think about?
35:13Yeah.
35:13I don't go too deep.
35:15I don't, I don't sit there and I probably should, but I don't sit there and go really
35:21deep into how am I feeling?
35:22It's just a quick sort of like, wow, miss you.
35:26Wonder what the world would be like if you were still here.
35:28Wonder what my family would be like if you were still here.
35:31So there's, there are questions that, that I, that I, that I sort of ask myself.
35:37And sometimes there's questions that I ask her looking for some kind of response.
35:41And sometimes I do get a response.
35:42You get an answer.
35:43Yeah.
35:44Yeah.
35:44And that's the thing.
35:45Like, I think it's, it's really interesting when, you know, she's like, he's obviously
35:50spent too much time in California, but it's having done the work that I've done.
35:54Um, there is, there is, there is a connection still with, with my mum that I, I really do
36:01feel her energy, uh, at certain times and certain parts of my life.
36:06We don't have to blame that in California.
36:07That's a legitimate feeling.
36:08Is it though?
36:09It's a legitimate feeling, but I, you know, for so many, for a lot of people watching this
36:12would be like, Oh, what, like, what are you now like connected to your mum and all this
36:16sort of stuff?
36:17It's like, yes.
36:18The answer would be yes.
36:19The answer would be yes.
36:21You know, there's, there's a, there's an energetic piece to this, which I never, I never, I never
36:25appreciated, never realized.
36:27Um, but when, when my son, when Archie was born and I had to go back into London and do
36:32the 40 minute drive in and out of London, I was so stressed with everything that was happening
36:37and everything that I was having to deal with.
36:38But then I would come back and I would literally grab, uh, take Archie off of, of Megan.
36:44And if I was still stressed, he would feel it immediately.
36:48Yes.
36:48And I got into this habit of, right.
36:50Okay.
36:50I'm now going to use this 40 minute drive to be able to try and like, just get that.
36:54Even when I got to the door of the house, I'd be like, like, can I, can I just, let's
36:59test this now.
37:00And I go in, I hold him and he like leans into me.
37:02I'm like, Whoa.
37:04Okay.
37:04So the energy is, that's just a real thing.
37:07Yeah.
37:07And I think as a, as a parent, we've just got to be so conscious about what we carry that
37:12they can pick up, especially like kids can pick up that we know how we're feeling.
37:16And maybe we don't know how we're feeling.
37:18Your kids will be the first people to tell you because they won't want to hang out with
37:21you.
37:22Yes.
37:22Yeah.
37:22And I don't know if you feel that as well, but I feel, I feel an energetic responsibility.
37:27I think it's what you're talking about too, right?
37:29Yes.
37:29You don't want to bring whatever toxicity you're carrying around, whether it's anger or frustration
37:36around them.
37:37It feels, um, it's responsibility.
37:41Yeah.
37:42Yeah.
37:42It's not always going to be possible.
37:44Yes.
37:44And you shouldn't, you shouldn't really like put that on yourself, but where, where it
37:48is possible, where you can try to heal yourself from the past, even heal yourself from the
37:53last week for their sake, you should absolutely do that.
37:57Yes.
37:58And my, I guess the reason why I keep sharing some parts of my story is because, and this
38:04is very much the same case in, in, uh, in the mental health community, which is global.
38:10You don't want anybody else to go through what you went through.
38:13And if there's some version of a lesson learned that you can share to help someone else, then
38:20you'll do everything you can to ensure that.
38:22You have mentioned a few times now, this idea of sharing your story and sharing your story.
38:27And, um, do you ever feel like, oh man, I've put a lot out there.
38:35Yes.
38:35But I prefer, I prefer me to be putting things out there rather than, um, the machine creating
38:42stuff.
38:44What do you mean by that?
38:45It doesn't matter whether you, if you, if you're, if someone like me, if you're sitting
38:48back, staying quiet, keeping low.
38:50Yeah.
38:51The, the, the stories, the stories don't stop.
38:54The stories are continuous.
38:56So you either just sit there and accept that all this crap is going to be, you know, created
39:02and people are going to write books about you and people are going to write stories, the
39:05hundreds of thousands, millions of stories about you over the years.
39:07Yes.
39:08And the vast majority of them are made up untrue or just really badly sourced, um, or with
39:14an agenda.
39:15So why not share some of your story?
39:18Why not try to be in control of your own story?
39:22Because if they, if they can't be responsible enough to tell your story, then you have to
39:26tell your own story.
39:27Yeah.
39:27But at the same time, you know, I've been really criticized for telling my story.
39:33And you have, and I find that, and I find it is fascinating because everybody else is
39:37allowed to tell their version of my story, but God forbid, um, I should, um, should be
39:43able to tell the other side of it.
39:46Um, so it's, it's, it's interesting, but just by telling my own story, it takes away a
39:51lot of power from other people.
39:53Yes.
39:53Yeah.
39:53Well, I mean, I was thinking in some ways, the press is such a great wound in your life.
39:59And I was like, I probably look a lot like the, the press to him.
40:03You don't, you don't look sound or feel like a journalist.
40:07That's not a criticism.
40:10But, um, no, look, I, I, I find myself in a very interesting place, 42 years old, where
40:18growing up, I was surrounded by some of the worst forms of journalism.
40:24Yes.
40:24And yet here I am 42 years old doing the best that I can do everything I can to try
40:30to uplift and support journalism because of the experience that I've had growing up where
40:35I'll be damned if you guys who pretend to be journalists are going to drag this whole
40:42profession down the drain.
40:44And I have, and I take real issue with that because journalism is proper journalism is so
40:50important.
40:51Just look around the world at the moment.
40:53As we've been talking, I've been thinking, you talk in the masterclass and have talked
40:59about the sort of search for purpose.
41:01And now here you are talking about grief and the most vulnerable things in your whole life.
41:09Do you think this is ultimately like the, the kind of like purpose that you found?
41:13Is that, is that what you're here to do?
41:15Do you think?
41:16Um, I think there's, there's yes.
41:18I think it's, uh, I think it's multi-purpose for me.
41:22Yeah.
41:22I think that, um, I think without purpose, I would be very lost.
41:28Like most people, I think we all have a purpose.
41:31We just need to find it.
41:32Um, my work drives me, the Invictus community inspires me and I will do and continue to do
41:41everything I can to help others find their purpose, uh, and encourage them to, to, to, to search for that.
41:49Probably helps you too though.
41:51Massively.
41:52Prince Harry, thank you so much.
41:54Oh, thank you, Zach.
41:55It's been great.
41:56Much better than I thought it was going to be.
41:57Really?
41:58No.
41:59Yeah.
41:59I didn't think it was going to be bad.
42:00Okay.