00:00Good morning, and Madam Callas, good morning. Thank you for joining us on Euronews. This has
00:04been a difficult week, a dramatic week, some would suggest. It started with that diesel deal with
00:09Russia, and now there seems to be real operational issues when it comes to the intel on the ground
00:15in Ukraine. The president of Ukraine, Zelensky, says this is a betrayal. It feels like a betrayal.
00:21Has the U.S. president betrayed Ukraine, and by extension, the Europeans?
00:25Well, the diesel deal is definitely a gift to Putin. The question is, what is he giving in
00:33return? What we see, he's actually increasing the attacks on the civilian and civilian infrastructure.
00:38The ceasefire that was also announced is not really working on the Russian side.
00:43And to that point, the president of Ukraine seems to indicate in an interview with the FD
00:48that he is prepared and will hit back Russian refineries. There is a clash of visions here.
00:54The president of the U.S. says, don't hit them. We need them because there is an energy crisis.
00:59It started with the Strait of Hormuz. The Ukrainians say we have to because that is the core of the
01:04operation, the moneymaker for Russia. In your view as a top European diplomat, should Ukraine hit them?
01:09I mean, the core issue is that Russia should stop this war. So there wouldn't be any attacks on the
01:17refineries either. But, you know, if we if we look at the big picture, then the majority of the
01:24financing for this war comes from oil. And that is why Ukraine is also targeting them, while Russia is
01:32targeting the energy infrastructure inside Ukraine to cause as much suffering for the Ukrainian people
01:38for the upcoming winter. And this is escalation we've seen since August on the cities. But just to
01:44pick up on this point, would you say, yes, the president of Ukraine has a legitimate point?
01:48He is right to hit the refineries. Yes. If we look at the, you know, the international law, it is
01:56clear
01:56that it is in defense of Ukraine, because that is where the funding comes for this war to kill
02:02Ukrainian people every day. And to me, it seems the administration is looking currently at this
02:07scenario, suggesting that the war is now not going to change that line on the battlefield. That is the
02:13end of it. And you have to make a deal. They seem to think that with Russia, it's a matter
02:18of business,
02:19financial incentives. We see that with diesel reports that they may want to use some of the
02:24frozen assets, potentially give them to Russia. Is the administration wrong? Are they just
02:30miscalculating fully what Vladimir Putin wants? Well, clearly, you know, we have to see the bigger
02:36picture, which is that we have one aggressor and one victim. So pressuring the victim to surrender
02:42is maybe bringing the pause to this war, but not, you know, in long term. And that's why the pressure
02:49should be on the aggressor, what we are doing on the European side. And if we would do this together
02:54with U.S., then the message to Russia would be clear. Stop this war and all your, you know, worries
03:01when it comes to oil refineries and whatnot will also stop. To me, from the outside, what it seems,
03:07however, is we are a point of rupture. The U.S. has taken on a very different path compared to
03:13that
03:13of the Europeans. Do you look at it and you say we need a wake up call? It is just
03:17a moment of we need
03:19to put our own plan. And why has that not happened now? Well, we have put our own plan. And
03:25that is a
03:26clear message also to Russia that, you know, all these things that they are interested in, lifting
03:32the sanctions, I mean, getting, you know, the release of frozen assets, that's actually up to
03:37the Europeans to decide. Now, Russians want to discuss and negotiate with U.S. so that U.S. would deliver
03:44them what they want. So, you know, Europe is just a nuisance here. But actually, you know,
03:51we have our own requests for Russia because they have started this war. We want to make sure that
03:57they don't continue. Also, you know, the sabotage acts, hybrid attacks that they have on European soil.
04:03So clearly, clearly, you know, the message is there that, you know, you need to talk to the
04:09Europeans as well. But it seems to me, and I say this with all due respect, because the EU is
04:13a complex
04:14institution, the capital is true. But there is a lack of leadership. When you are blindsided every
04:20four months, when you're not really at the heart of the negotiations, when the hybrid attack escalates,
04:25the message I get is that the U.S. does not respect the perspective of the Europeans and that
04:30Russia is willing to test them. Why? Where is the failure coming from?
04:34Because the calculation is that, you know, if Russia and U.S. agree, then, you know,
04:39Russia will get what they want. But they have miscalculated because, you know, when was the
04:46Anchorage agreement? It was August last year. So it is more than a year that they have tried
04:51to pressure Ukraine. But the but the calculus has been wrong because Europeans have been supporting
04:59Ukraine and Ukraine has not surrendered, even though Americans have been pressuring.
05:04And yet I see a very difficult political calendar with the elections that are lining up in Europe.
05:10Yesterday, Marine Le Pen was in Brussels and she said, and this is a quote, France is not in a
05:15position where it can't pay for Ukraine anymore. If others want to pay, they can. But France will not
05:20pay. They cannot do it anymore. When you hear that, are you concerned? Because it seems to me the
05:24political tide is not working in favor of Ukraine. It is true that we are all democracies and a lot
05:31of
05:31elections are coming up. And also there are a lot of, you know, the public support is also in a
05:37different place than it was, you know, four years ago. That's also very clear. But this is what the
05:43Russians are actually, you know, playing at. They are playing at that the Europeans will get tired
05:49and then they will get what they want. And what I want to stress is that then we will only
05:54have a
05:55pause and the appetite for them will grow. And to that point, there is a financial cost. However,
06:02the Europeans, let's be honest, can they pay a hundred billion, assuming maybe that's the number
06:07we're looking at to help the Ukrainians? Who is going to finance this? And ultimately, is it not
06:12just obvious that you've got to tap into the Russian frozen assets before the Americans do it?
06:16Well, the frozen assets are frozen in Europe. And also, I mean, the agreement between the
06:24European leaders is that they are going to remain frozen until Russia pays reparations. So yes,
06:31clearly, a lot of member states are pointing at these two billion, 200 billion that, you know,
06:36we should take this money that Ukraine needs from these frozen assets.
06:40And what's it going to take to change dynamics?
06:44What's it going to take? It's going to take a clear plan to actually, you know, divide the risk
06:51because, yes, some member states have the frozen assets. They are afraid of the risk that comes to
06:57their way. If all the member states would share the risk... Is that idea still alive?
07:03Yes, it is. It is still alive. But, you know, also the clear plan needs to need to come.
07:11And just, High Representative, as a final point, over the past six months, there has been a campaign,
07:16something I've not seen in a long time in Brussels, to undermine your work and your institution.
07:21What I see today is a High Representative that is determined and is not going anywhere.
07:26Are you going to fight for your institution?
07:27Of course. Of course, I'm going to fight. And it's a good institution, meaning that we do a lot of
07:34good work.
07:35The EU delegations that everybody is very happy with are working well for also the member states.
07:41I think this is the moment in time where we need to be effective in our foreign policy.
07:46We need to be united. And that's why the discussions, I actually welcome how can we make them more effective.
07:52And that's your message to the capitals, too, that you will be on top of this dossier.
07:55Yes, absolutely. And that has been my message and also the message of my Secretary General, who has been traveling.
08:02I see you revitalized this morning. I see you energized. Is that how you feel?
08:07Absolutely. I mean, you know, tough times need to have a tough, you know, stance.
08:14Well, to that point, Kaye Callas, thank you so much for joining us on Euronews this morning.
