00:00Apoio
00:07Vamos falar sobre a situação de segurança de Europa agora.
00:11Em suas leis, o que é a melhor threats Belga?
00:15Apoio
00:16Podemos expandir ?
00:18Apoio
00:20Apoio
00:21Isso é a maior threats.
00:25Apoio
00:25Para precisar de defesa
00:26Apoio
00:27air defense. We need Ukrainian technology
00:29to get
00:31to the European continent as soon
00:33as possible, and to Belgium as well,
00:35to NATO, to fight
00:37those jet-powered drones that come
00:39at 600 kilometers an hour.
00:42And we don't have
00:43too much. So, yes, we
00:45need really air defense.
00:47We need to scale up our air defenses.
00:49We need to have more
00:51stocks, more production, scale
00:53up production, industrial base,
00:55and large industrial base.
00:57Everything has to go faster. And then
00:59again, yeah, hybrid threat, of course. There will
01:01be more hybrid threat actions
01:03next coming months. It will be
01:05a dark winter for Europe.
01:07Let's talk about the hybrid threats. Rewind
01:1012 months ago, Belgium was
01:11seemingly inundated with
01:13drones, but it's my understanding that the
01:15Belgian Federal Prosecutor's Office is still
01:17determining roughly where 40
01:19of these drones come from. What
01:21conclusion do you draw from this incident?
01:23Who is to blame here?
01:24Well, it's, it's, that is the definition
01:26of hybrid warfare. It's very difficult
01:29to find the actor when you don't find
01:30the instrument, the drone, or
01:33the pilot who's, who's doing
01:34this. So, in, in Neipzig,
01:37the drones didn't explode.
01:38So, the German intelligence service could
01:40really work on, on those elements, on
01:42those, those systems. And they, they
01:45detected 100% sure, certain that it is
01:48Russian, it was Russia that, that was
01:50behind this hybrid attack on the
01:52Antonov airplane of NATO. So, yes, I, I'm
01:57looking in this, in the same direction, but
01:59it's really difficult to have the proof.
02:01They're very, very smart. Hybrid warfare is
02:04not something that Russia is starting
02:06since two or three years. They're doing
02:08this for 50 years. This is something
02:11that's, where Putin was really very
02:12good at. So, yeah, this is something
02:15that's, they have a lot of expertise in
02:16hybrid warfare.
02:18What has, what has Belgium learnt in the
02:20years since this incident occurred? You
02:22talk about drones, but what, what
02:25technology or capabilities has Belgium
02:27put on the ground to protect citizens and
02:29those assets that we mentioned earlier?
02:31So, we bought, we bought a lot of
02:33counter drone systems that are
02:35operational as we speak. And then we
02:38have an innovative partnership that
02:41will be, that has been launched for one
02:43billion euro. So, we can always adapt and
02:47follow the trends because technology is
02:49going so fastly that we really need to
02:51follow the trends. And I don't want to
02:53have 200,000 drones somewhere in a,
02:57somewhere in, in a stock, where in two
03:01months you cannot even use them because
03:03they're outdated. So, we have to adapt. So,
03:06I want to have a partnership with our
03:09beautiful enterprises, Belgium, but
03:10European, also American to have, or maybe
03:14even Turkish because they have very, very
03:16good drone systems to, to as soon as
03:19possible have, have an innovative
03:22partnership that follows all the time the
03:24trends. Also with Ukrainian engineers,
03:26with Ukraine as battlefields, we will
03:28normally conclude it by the end of the
03:31year. So, we're, we're in the final
03:32phase.
03:32So, just speaking on drones, once again,
03:35in a wide-ranging interview with the
03:36Flemish broadcaster, VRT, Robert
03:38Brovdi, who heads up Ukraine's drone
03:41defense department, he told Belgium to
03:44take off its, quote, rose-tinted
03:46glasses and that Belgium, because it hosts
03:48NATO, the EU institutions and Euroclear,
03:52which is the financial institution that
03:53holds a big chunk of Russia's
03:56immobilized assets. This is what makes
03:59Belgium vulnerable. Do you think that
04:00you're doing enough to protect the
04:02country from these incursions? Do you
04:04share his assessment?
04:05I'm ministered for 19 months. We didn't,
04:07we were neglecting, we were like the
04:09worst pupil of NATO class. We had 1% GDP
04:13in defense. We are finding father of
04:15NATO, we're finding father of EU,
04:17Belgium. So, I think that's, we always
04:20were there for diplomacy, for soft power, but
04:24when it's talked, when we talked hard power
04:26in Belgium, everybody was looking at the
04:29other direction. So, we didn't want to face
04:31reality. So, now we doubled the budget, we
04:34have the 2%, I know that we need to do more,
04:37but it's quite a process. We're investing
04:42highly, we're doing so much, but I cannot do
04:45in 18 months, I'm minister, I cannot do it
04:48in 18 months, but has been neglected for 40
04:50years. Now Belgium is back again, but it
04:53takes time. I think that's, it's going in the
04:55right direction. Have we already all the
04:59capabilities that I want to have? No. It takes
05:03time also. Industry cannot follow. When I'm
05:06buying Patriots, I have to wait 10 years to
05:08get them. So, it is, we're in a very
05:12difficult position at this moment. Europe
05:15has been very good in investing in soft
05:19power, in social security, and it's beautiful
05:21to have a pension system, to have social
05:24welfare systems. When somebody's got sick,
05:26when somebody's lost his job, we have
05:28everything. But when there's war or when
05:32there's hybrid threats, we don't, we have
05:34anything. So, yeah, we were in a really
05:37difficult position, and Belgium was a really
05:39bad pupil in the past, but trying to step up,
05:42we have a stable government, and trying to do
05:45what we need to do, yeah. Of course, and I,
05:47it's my understanding that NATO Secretary-General,
05:49Mark Rutte, will be here today. What would you
05:52communicate to him about your plans to get
05:54Belgium on that 3.5% of GDP core defense
05:57spending target? Because, as you rightly
05:59pointed out, Belgium is not there yet. Two things. I
06:04targets will be, normally we have new NATO
06:09capability targets in 29. I think that we
06:12need an update sooner and faster. I think
06:16it's too slow. I think that the things that
06:18Belgium needs to buy from NATO are not the
06:22things that will be useful when there's
06:24war, I'm afraid. So, that is one thing that
06:26we need to talk about within NATO. And on
06:29Belgian budgets, we have the worst budget of
06:31EU. We have the biggest, highest debt of EU. We're
06:35talking about the budget as we speak, but
06:37saying that Belgium will meet the 5% tomorrow,
06:40we won't. We have 3.5%, we have the 2% core
06:43spending, 1.5% broader spending on security
06:47issues. So, we have 7 out of 10. When my
06:50girl comes home, she's 17 from school and she
06:53has a 7 out of 10. That's not too bad, but I
06:56know that the most difficult is the 1.5 core
06:59defence spending that we still need to do. So, yes, I'm
07:03working on it very, very hard, believe me.
07:06One final question. Do you think the Prime
07:07Minister is receptive to your lobbying
07:09efforts to boost the defence budget?
07:12But Bart, my Prime Minister Bartu Bever, is a
07:15very strong leader and he's a very, very
07:18intelligent guy. So, he knows what's
07:19happening in the world. And he's telling me,
07:23yes, I know. And I'm asking for more money. He
07:26knows. But he's not alone in the government.
07:29Belgium is a federal country with five
07:31political parties in the government. You
07:33have the Dutch-speaking, the French-speaking.
07:35That is not always the same in Belgium. Quite
07:37interesting country we have. So, it will be
07:41difficult. But I'm pushing for this. And
07:43Bart is pro-defence, 100%. So, yeah. He
07:46knows. But he's the Prime Minister. You know, he
07:49has to make the compromise.
07:51Yeah, I guess he's the boss. Thank you so much,
07:53Defence Minister, for taking the time to talk to
07:54us. Thank you. Thank you.
