00:00Jürgen Hart, you're the foreign policy spokesperson for the Conservative CDU here in the German Parliament.
00:05And you literally are just coming out of the gathering with Friedrich Merz,
00:10who has so been criticised over the past more than two weeks,
00:14ever since that victory of the far-right AFD over the Conservative CDU in Saxony, Anhalt.
00:21There was lots of speculation that Friedrich Merz may have to step down.
00:25What's left of that?
00:26What was this hearing like today, speaking with his own MPs?
00:30The Chancellor gave an impressive speech to the audience of the caucus,
00:35more concentrated on the future perspective.
00:39It was clear for us all that the reform policy of the current government
00:43under its leadership should be continued.
00:46There's no alternative to modernise the social systems,
00:49but also to reduce bureaucracy in Germany and to make the life easier,
00:54especially for business people and for taxpayers.
00:57This is what we have in focus for the next months.
01:01Concerning foreign security policy, we have the biggest differences to AFD.
01:07AFD is a pro-Russian party in Germany that promotes a position
01:12that only diplomacy might help to come on one side with Putin.
01:20We fear that this is wrong, that we are under immediate threat from Russia
01:25and that we have to be deterrent on that and we should continue to support the Ukraine.
01:30There's no way for us to step down from that policy.
01:34Concerning reform policy, there's also no alternative to that programme,
01:38but we should listen better and we should communicate better
01:41and we should explain to people in Germany that these reforms are not done to harm them,
01:47but to help to have a better future in Germany.
01:50After two decades of relatively stagnation in reform policy
01:56and also after five years of relatively stagnation in economic development in Germany,
02:01we knew the new impact and the Chancellor said,
02:04I will take over this responsibility and I will lead and there was applause of the audience
02:08and I'm sure that at the end of the year, we will be successful with that Chancellor.
02:14Well, clearly there's an attempt to get back to a more fact-based level,
02:17to talk about reforms, how you might have to open those reforms,
02:21but I just want to stay with the party dynamics for a second
02:23because Friedrich Merz himself, just after the polls closed on that last election defeat
02:28in Mecklenburg, West Pomerania, where the Conservative CDU party, his party,
02:33your party, has for the first time in its history failed to take the 5% hurdle.
02:38He called this a disaster.
02:40Now, Germany is known for political stability out of its core,
02:45dominated by parties of the centre.
02:47Is this time period where it's always a given that one of the centrist parties,
02:53the Conservatives or the Social Democrats, is the dominant force in the government?
02:58Are these times over and what is the new brand of stability that you are working on?
03:03Hopefully this time is not over, but I also am very much concerned about the fact
03:09that more than 40% of the people in Berlin that go to vote,
03:13and it was a huge number of people going for voting,
03:16on last Sunday voted for radical parties from the left or from the right.
03:19This is a huge challenge for us, but I think people can count on CDU
03:25and I think maybe the democratic powers like CDU, CSU, SPD and Greens
03:31should come closer together in some political fields, probably in Berlin,
03:36where we have a majority for those three democratic parties,
03:40and we can ninder a left-radical government under Linke leadership
03:46if the two parties, SPD and Greens, see a firewall against left-radicalism
03:52as we see as CDU against right-radicalism.
03:55Now, what's the soul-searching looking like in the Conservative camp right now?
03:59You just mentioned you want to communicate differently,
04:02but the Chancellor already also indicated that he may have to reopen
04:06those much-needed reforms.
04:08Everybody agrees that reforms are needed, particularly for the pension system,
04:11but how willing will his camp, your camp, be to reopen the debate
04:17on what remains within those reform efforts?
04:22I think there was a clear message of the Chancellor and also of others,
04:25like the chair of the group, Thorsten Frey, the new chair of the group,
04:29that concerning the pension reform system,
04:31we will not accept significant changes in the program.
04:36Concerning other reform projects, I think we are not yet on a point
04:39where we have fixed all the details.
04:42And I think an open discussion, a fair and open discussion on all issues,
04:47also on that what probably need to be re-annuated in a health reform dot two,
04:55this is not yet finally discussed.
04:57And I hope that the discussion and the way we discuss on that
05:00and we communicate on that together with the people on the streets
05:04and in our constituencies, that we come to better results
05:08and to more accepted results.
05:10And one very important thing is, if you do changes in politics
05:15and you want to convince people that these changes are necessary
05:19and are going in the right direction,
05:22you have to present your position in a very close and common approach to the people.
05:29If you start to struggle with your own decisions,
05:32you cannot believe that people might follow you.
05:35And the second is, after a reform, it's much easier to handle the challenges than before a reform.
05:42The phase when reform is not yet finalized, but already discussed,
05:47is normally the most crucial point in politics
05:50and therefore we should now come to immediate decisions in the rest of the year.
05:58I hope that we will end all those reforms up to end of the year.
06:02That was the hope even before these elections.
06:04Now the chancellor signaling he might make some kind of concession.
06:08How much will the speed of these reforms be the measuring stick
06:12for Friedrich Merz's position as chancellor?
06:15We've heard a lot of internal party criticism as well.
06:19How much is he a chancellor on borrowed time now
06:21who has to prove he can get these reforms done or else?
06:25We have those big projects ahead, pension reform,
06:30reform on care on elderly people,
06:34the reform of the labor law,
06:37the reform of the bureaucracy,
06:39and we have the budget end of November.
06:41And those five points, I think, will be the milestones also for Friedrich Merz,
06:46where we can show that he has a majority,
06:48that this policy of that government has a majority,
06:51and if we succeed with all those five reforms,
06:55with clear majorities in the Deutsche Bundestag,
06:57this is also strengthening the chancellor.
07:00And each of those points is also a point as a test for the chancellor
07:06and his backing up by CDU, CSU and SPD.
07:10But looking to that, what we discussed today,
07:13I'm very optimistic that we will have positive results.
07:16But he clearly is a chancellor on the defensive.
07:19He initially planned to go to the UN General Assembly,
07:21which is taking place right now as we're standing here.
07:24Instead, he is in the room next door meeting with conservative MPs.
07:28So that's how serious he took this crisis from within.
07:32How much do you think there will be a fallout for Germany internationally,
07:37having a chancellor who for the second time running
07:39is a no-show at the UN General Assembly?
07:42I think also other chancelors never were year by year in the General Assembly.
07:49The foreign ministers say this is a normal routine.
07:52The topics on the agenda of the General Assembly
07:55are not as crucial that the chancellor is needed there.
07:59I think the decision to stay in Germany is right.
08:02I think there is a challenge for the party and this government,
08:07but looking to the results of the elections,
08:10even in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern,
08:12where social democrats were already successful,
08:14but also radical parties were successful.
08:16And in Sachsen-Anhalt,
08:19where we have this big problem for all democratic parties,
08:23and in Berlin, where the radical left is number one after the elections,
08:30we have a challenge in Germany.
08:32And the chancellor addressed us that it counts on us.
08:38He says, conservatives are the best to save democracy,
08:42but they are also those who have the most power to harm democracy.
08:47And we should be on the side of those who save and secure democracy in Germany
08:51and make it stronger.
08:52And just finally, but there's one foreign policy issue
08:55that is directly linked to that, of course,
08:57that you have seen a rise of the far right in several states.
09:01Here in Berlin, you have the far left winning these elections,
09:06although it's unclear whether they can actually get a coalition together.
09:08But these are all parties who are highly critical of Germany's role
09:12as the largest supporter of Ukraine.
09:14Does that keep you up at night?
09:17We will see this week, maybe, or next week,
09:20when we talk about the date of the Baminjar massacre 85 years ago,
09:29that we have not only majority in the government,
09:31which has been between SPD and CDU, CSU,
09:34but also strong support, for example, from the Green Party,
09:37which is opposition in Germany,
09:39but very close with us in that Ukraine question.
09:42And we have to explain to all people in Germany
09:46that the support for Ukraine is essential also for the security of Germany.
09:52Ukraine is doing a hard job against Putin
09:55that hopefully we never have to do,
09:57in case that Ukraine will be successful with that,
10:01with our help, and therefore we will continue that support.
10:04And I think two-thirds of the Deutsche Bundestag at the moment
10:07and also a majority among the people
10:10is in favor of supporting Ukraine.
10:14And the question for me is also that
10:19only AFD in Europe is a political party
10:24that might win elections by promoting Putin's objectives.
10:32In other states of Europe it's not possible to win elections with that.
10:36If you look to right populist and right radical parties outside Germany,
10:41most of them are also critical on Putin and Russia.
10:45And therefore I'm very optimistic that on mid-term and long-term
10:51people will see that we are right with our position on Ukraine
10:54and support for Ukraine and not AFD.
10:57Jürgen Hart, Foreign Policy Spokesman of the Conservative CDU,
11:00thank you very much.
11:01Bye-bye.
