00:08Tora Misvalis, Minister for Finance for Lithuania, thank you very much for joining us on Euronews.
00:13Thank you for inviting.
00:14We heard the invitation from Ursula von der Leyen, President of the European Commission, to Canada for an associate membership.
00:20What does that mean to you, taking into context what we're experiencing now with the withdrawal from the United States,
00:27from the Transatlantic Partnership, the U.S. not being the ally it once was, essentially?
00:32I believe, you know, we should be quite patient with such kind of, let's say, summaries,
00:39because, you know, for us, you know, for Lithuanians, United States is a core ally.
00:44We still, we live in this transatlantic cooperation and we don't want to have some kind of misunderstanding in our
00:51communication.
00:52And I believe if Canada is willing to have more intensive cooperation with the European Union, we're also accepting that
00:59as well.
01:00So we believe it could be a part of the dual transatlantic cooperation form.
01:06So we don't look at this like with some kind of...
01:12Either or.
01:13Either or, we're just perhaps, we're going to consider this as an additional cooperation opportunity for the European Union with
01:21North America.
01:22However, we still believe in the European cooperation with the United States, the way we had before.
01:28And as I said, any kind of efforts to stabilize the current geopolitical situation,
01:35even without the more predictable measures that we used to have before, I think they might pay back in the
01:43future.
01:44So what do you make then of the decisions by the United States over the past few years?
01:49The withdrawal from really important provisions within the NATO force model, bombers, F-16s, F-35s and so on.
01:57Also, the changes to the force posture.
02:02We've heard that potentially it could be as much as 25,000 to 40,000 U.S. troops being removed
02:07from NATO territory.
02:08Are many concerned?
02:10Of course, we're concerned.
02:11We're very concerned about some signals that we might have less troops in the European Union, in the European continent,
02:18in our region as well.
02:20It's always frustrating at the beginning.
02:22However, we have no right to believe that it's already determined that there will be a collapse of NATO.
02:28We have no signs for that.
02:30Of course, there are negotiations on different aspects, on different angles.
02:33But we still believe that NATO is strong.
02:36Do you think then this Security Council that Ursula von der Leyen is proposing, which would be the European states
02:42of NATO with Ukraine,
02:44that that is important in terms of responding to what we're seeing, particularly in countries like Lithuania,
02:50the Russian shadow war aggression that we're seeing?
02:53Yeah, I mean, I believe any kind of effort to make Europe more united is also, it's already a positive
03:01step.
03:02Because it's pathetic, you know, when all this banal thing that, you know, half a billion nation needs to be
03:10begging, you know,
03:12needs to beg, you know, the 330 million nation to be protected from 140 million nations.
03:17So it's really pathetic.
03:18You mean Europe looking to be protected by the U.S. from Russia of 140 million?
03:22Yeah, exactly.
03:23This is what kind of situation we have.
03:26So it's really, really pathetic.
03:27So I think, you know, the sort of the good thing that happened after this full-scale invasion to Ukraine
03:33that Europe has spoken up.
03:36You know, we don't, we're not naive anymore.
03:38We're not showing that, you know, somebody must protect, you know, us from the others.
03:44We need to do it ourselves.
03:46And Ukraine, courage, has shown a lot that smaller nation, even like three and a half times smaller nation, is
03:53capable to do this.
03:55Okay.
03:55Now you are, you've been well on your way to 5% of GDP expenditure anyway, since before the Hague
04:02and the demands by Donald Trump.
04:04They're almost 5 or 4%.
04:05Can you tell us a little bit about what that money is being spent on, particularly, you know, in relation
04:10to drones?
04:11Because that's the kind of constant.
04:12The air defense is the core priority at the moment for us.
04:17We realize that the contemporary world has completely changed, you know, the rules, the priorities for the defense, especially what
04:24we see nowadays.
04:24It's not about tanks going from one side to another.
04:27It's only about having some efficient defense system for the airstrikes, mainly.
04:33And obviously, our priorities go to the air defense side, of course, drones, promoting drones, anti-drone systems.
04:41So this is the core priority for us.
04:44And also, we believe that there are some new technologies emerging that might help, you know, to deal with this.
04:50Because now it's not about how much money you spend.
04:52Now it's about how effective in this expenditure you are and how smart you're dealing with potential threats.
05:00Because the reason I'm asking you as finance minister is because you have to spend the money to invest in
05:04all of this and you have to see return for the money.
05:06I mean, how much is this advancing your economy in a way in terms of development investment?
05:14One of the initiatives that we had with the agreement with our president and the Polish president, that we're launching
05:21a free economic zone on the border with Poland.
05:23And this allows us to have a lot of confidence that our defense industry will have a chance to grow
05:30a lot, much more than we had before.
05:32And we already spoke with the potential global market leaders about it.
05:37So in surprise, we got a very positive feedback from them.
05:41Most of them, whether it was a United States company, whether it was Canadian, Israeli, or Norwegian, or French company,
05:49they were always, or Turkish company, they were all willing to be a part of this free economic zone.
05:54So for us, it's a good sign that it's not going to be just expenditure.
05:58This determination regarding this amount of money allows us to have a chance to be a regional leader in the
06:06defense industry and to attract investments to our country, to create jobs, and to be more resilient.
06:13Instead of considering this as some kind of loss or just an expenditure, we converted this approach into new opportunities
06:21for our economy.
06:22And we believe that this resilient approach is going to be very, very profitable in full scale.
06:30There are concerns from, I suppose, civil society groups that the constant focus on security and defense, while important, maybe
06:39funds too much weapons manufacturers and keeps that going to a little bit lucratively.
06:46What's your own sort of feeling about that, that balance that is required?
06:49Well, you know, when you have a pure threat next to your door, you think differently.
06:55You realize that perhaps the biggest motivation and courage for the aggressor was that we, as a regional, we didn't
07:04make enough efforts in order to stop them or demotivate them, you know, to keep on moving.
07:09I keep saying that, you know, 18 years ago, we had a very, very, almost identical situation when Georgia lost
07:1715% of their territories.
07:19And just right after, you know, we, as Europe, we didn't make enough efforts to support them.
07:27What we have now today, Georgia is completely back in Russian arms.
07:30What we have now with Ukraine is 10 times larger.
07:34We don't want this scenario to repeat in the Ukrainian side because it's 10 times bigger and it's even closer
07:41to our, you know, our heart of Europe.
07:43And one thing that's really on the agenda at this ECOFIN meeting is the windfall tax for energy companies that
07:49have had extraordinary profits made as a consequence of the chaos that we're seeing in the Middle East.
07:56But in addition to that, European taxpayers are suffering.
08:00Some people can't fill their cars.
08:01They can't pay their heating.
08:02We're coming into winter.
08:03Do you support a European tax on windfall profits?
08:09Well, you know, as a minister of finance now, I have my own lessons learned, you know, to be quite
08:14cautious regarding, you know, new taxation.
08:16And, of course, it depends on the brighter vision, you know, how these additional taxes, you know, could be spent
08:24in case if we're very determined and very confident about our expenditure plan and our action plan, why we're doing
08:33this is one way.
08:34But I believe that any kind of taxation should evaluate potential growth scenario, potential ability to be competitive globally.
08:45Because if we increase taxes to our market players, you know, some of the regions like BRICS countries, like other
08:53areas, like Mercosur countries that we started cooperation with as European Union,
09:00they might, you know, use a chance, you know, to take additional market share.
09:04So, global market share.
09:05So, we should be as careful as possible.
09:07But then what you say to the disparity there.
09:09I mean, there's a clear disparity that these companies are, they're making so much money out of misery and other
09:15taxpayers are, you know.
09:17So, there has to be a responsibility for Europeans and governments like yourselves to intervene in some way to make
09:24some fairness adjustment.
09:26I agree.
09:26And what would that look then?
09:28Well, we'll see.
09:29We just started our negotiations.
09:30So, we'll see, you know, what's going to be the feedback after, like, all countries, they share their points of
09:35views.
09:36And I think now it's a bit too early to see, like, what's going to be the decision about it.
09:42Okay.
09:43And just finally, we've got this negotiation for the next round of sanctions against Russia.
09:48The French and the Slovakians, but many of the French, are insisting that the name of Omanerov is removed from
09:56the sanctions list.
09:57The presidency, the Irish presidency of the European Council is saying that, you know, we can't allow this because we
10:03thought we saw the end to removing names of sanction lists when Victor Orban was unelected.
10:09But what's the Lithuanian position on that?
10:12For the sake of getting the next sanctions package across the line, would you be willing to give in to
10:18the French?
10:18They say it's an issue of national security.
10:22Well, regarding any release of sanctions, we're very skeptical.
10:26Because the war is not over, we believe that any kind of effort to minimize sanctions for Russia before we
10:37have a peace deal, I believe that the Russian side could consider it as our weakness.
10:42So we're always very skeptical at this stage regarding any kind of decrease of sanctions regarding Russia.
10:51So for us, it's a red line.
10:53And we don't support any kind of lighter approach before we're having break-even regarding the peace deal.
11:01So what if the sanctions are held up?
11:05Because remember, this sanctions package relates to 3,000 individuals and companies.
11:10So it's a big one if it's not allowed to pass.
11:13I know, I know.
11:14But we are very skeptical regarding, you know, this kind of scenario because we believe it's too early.
11:22We believe that Russia should understand that we are united.
11:27We see Ukraine as a part of our enlargement process.
11:33And any kind of efforts to occupy more or just make more damage to Ukraine, even like in the future,
11:42it's completely unacceptable.
11:43And we just fully support even like providing more sanctions to Russia.
11:49Yeah.
11:50Tarim Asfalis, Minister for Finance for Lithuania, thank you very much for joining us on Euronews.
11:54Thank you very much.
11:56Thank you.
11:56Thank you very much.
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