- 38 minutes ago
Maharashtra Food and Drug Administration Commissioner Tukaram Mundhe addresses extreme pricing markups on hospital consumables, where procurement rates for items like IV sets, syringes, and catheters are inflated by up to 2,850 percent on patient bills.
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00:00Good evening, you're watching To The Point. I'm Freethi Chaudhary.
00:02An exclusive interview lined up for you and a lot more.
00:05First, allow me to take you through the headlines.
00:11From being free to a fee on merchants,
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00:19A 0.4% levy imposed by government for payments above 2,000 rupees,
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00:58India protests, unprofessional Park Navy conduct,
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01:03No damage reported to Indian warship.
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01:18move after a nationwide crackdown in which 253 people were detained
01:22and more than 80 FIRs were registered.
01:30Islam's holiest site on Houthi radar, Saudi Air Defense intercepts Houthi drone.
01:36Drone intrusion into Mecca airspace foils,
01:39Saudi says targeting Mecca is a red line.
01:48U.S. MOVE's bill proposing 100% tariffs on India
01:51names India in Russia's Sanctions Act bill.
01:54But India stands firm, says energy sourcing based on national interest.
02:11Piers, today our top debate and our guest today
02:15pertains to one topic that is possibly close to any middle class Indian's heart.
02:21A hospital bill that can wipe out an entire financial savings of a family.
02:27Now, Maharashtra FDA Commissioner Tukaramunde has flagged a massive gap
02:33between what hospitals pay for, where hospital medical consumables
02:38and the MRP patients are charged.
02:41And he has actually flagged that some of the markups by hospitals are over 2,800%.
02:50So, something that costs in the market at a certain price is marked up 2,800% in certain private
02:59hospitals.
03:00From syringes to IV sets to catheters, the price gap can run into hundreds and thousands.
03:07And the problem goes beyond one device.
03:10The latest government data shows just how sharply hospitalization costs vary across India
03:17and between public and private hospitals.
03:25One admission, one emergency, one surgery.
03:33And suddenly, the savings you built over years can start disappearing line by line on a hospital bill.
03:43Now, Maharashtra FDA Commissioner Tukaramunde has put one part of that bill under the scanner.
03:49The price patients pay for hospital consumables.
03:54Munde has flagged what he calls a massive gap between the trade price of medical devices and the MRP patients
04:02can end up paying.
04:05His warning follows a Maharashtra government survey of surgical consumables used in patient care.
04:15An IV infusion set procured at 11.05 rupees carried an MRP of 325 rupees, a 2,854.5%
04:27markup.
04:28A syringe bought for 6.75 rupees carried an MRP of 57.20 rupees, a 747.4% markup.
04:39A catheter costing 29.41 rupees had an MRP of 310 rupees, a 954% markup.
04:49And nebulizers and oxygen masks bought at around 40 rupees to 45 rupees carried MRPs of 650 rupees to 715
04:59rupees.
05:00Munde says the larger problem is the information gap.
05:04Patients paying the bill often have no way of knowing what a medical consumable actually costs before it reached the
05:12hospital.
05:13That's why he has written to the Department of Pharmaceuticals and the National Pharmaceutical Pricing Authority or NPPA.
05:21His recommendations include capping trade margins, bringing essential medical devices under structured price monitoring,
05:30setting guidelines for the permissible gap between procurement prices and MRPs,
05:35rationalizing margins across the supply chain and an interagency review.
05:41The NPPA is now examining whether manufacturers and intermediaries are adding substantial margins before these products reach patients.
05:52But how expensive is healthcare in India even beyond medical devices?
05:58The latest national sample survey for January to December 2025 puts average out-of-pocket expenditure for a hospitalization at
06:08about 34,064 rupees.
06:10For outpatient care, the average is around 861 rupees per treatment episode.
06:16And the public-private gap is even sharper.
06:20Average hospitalization expenditure is 6,631 rupees in a government hospital while it is 50,508 rupees in a private
06:32hospital.
06:32That's roughly an eight-fold difference.
06:35For childbirth, the gap is even wider.
06:39Childbirth at government hospital is 2,299 rupees and in private hospital, it is 37,630 rupees, nearly 16 times
06:49more.
06:51For millions, it's the choice between waiting in an outstretched public system or paying for more private care.
06:58And once inside, every line on the bill matters.
07:03Munde has now put the medical device price gap under scrutiny.
07:08The question is whether that can mean greater transparency, tighter regulation and bills patients can actually understand and afford.
07:17Bureau Report, India Today.
07:28All right, joining me now is Maharashtra FDA Commissioner, Mr. Tukaram Munde.
07:32Mr. Munde, thank you for taking the time out and joining us.
07:35Thank you, sir.
07:37Mr. Munde, when you exposed the mark-ups, which are as high as nearly 3,000% on hospital consumables,
07:44you haven't really even touched a raw nerve.
07:47You've spoken up for the armed army of this country who has to face this day in and day out.
07:53What made you speak on this issue, sir?
08:01See, the issue is not about speaking for just consumers, but it is as a regulator.
08:07It is my job.
08:08It is my role to look at the issues.
08:11And the issue here is about mark-up prices of the consumables, which are consumed in the hospital, particularly in
08:17IPD.
08:18Whether it is IV sets or whether it is mobilizers or other consumables, which are used daily basis for IPD
08:24purposes.
08:24Now, we conducted based on some inputs and complaints that there are a lot of discrepancies in the MRP price
08:34and actually the hospital price plus billing.
08:37So, we conducted a survey across MMR regions and other hospitals where we found that there have been differences in
08:46MRP and actually the price at which the hospital gets that product.
08:51So, we have found anywhere in the range of 150% to almost 2800% difference between MRP and the
09:00trade price at which the hospital procures.
09:02But the benefit is not passed on to the consumer.
09:05It is either with the hospital or with the pharmacy industry or the manufacturer or dealer, whoever the case may
09:13be.
09:13So, that is not fair track practice in a real sense.
09:17It is not a transparency.
09:18So, as per the prevailing rules, we have taken up the issue with the appropriate authority that is NPPA in
09:26this context.
09:27So, we have sent a layer of proposal to the NPPA, enumerating the discrepancies which have found, the gaps which
09:34have found, the marker price, MRP and actual practices.
09:37And we have submitted certain recommendations to look it up into the issue including interagency review, including fair trade prices,
09:50including fair trade margins and of course transparency to be brought up in.
09:55So, we are aware within the right as a regulator, I have to look at the issues, whatever the issues
10:02come up with me.
10:04And we have taken up the issue with the appropriate authority who is a competent authority in this sector.
10:09Sir, it is well within your rights to take it up, but rarely has any authority ever spoken about this.
10:16Though there have been consumer forums across many years who have constantly brought this issue up.
10:22When you say, sir, and you know, Mr. Munde, you've tweeted this out, you've basically used a social media platform
10:29to put this out.
10:30And you write, a review of these findings and clear guidelines on the permissible gap between trade procurement price and
10:37declared MRP has been recommended to the Department of Pharmaceuticals and the NPPA.
10:43A step towards closing not just the pricing gap, but the information gap patients are left to bear alone.
10:50How are you going to follow up, you know, with what you have written to the NPPA and the Department
10:57of Pharmaceuticals?
10:58Because there has always been a lot of resistance and there is a massive pharma lobby, especially where even, you
11:04know, private hospitals are concerned.
11:10I believe that we have to look it up in the holistic issue. It's not a lobby or say the
11:15consumer lobby versus pharma lobby or hospital lobby versus a regulator, something is not like that.
11:19We have to look at it in a 360 degree context. Pharmacy product producers are there, manufacturers are there.
11:25They have their IP rights, they produce it, but the trade margin has to be reasonable.
11:32As per NPPA, we have what you call Essential Commodities Act and there is a DPCO order which is revised
11:39from time to time.
11:40The current DPCO order is 2013 and in that order, essential medicines are defined, their MRP is also looked into.
11:51Beyond that, there are certain items which every year pharma companies or manufacturers are allowed to increase by a particular
11:57percentage point of view.
11:58While fixing a pricing or MRP, there is a process defined in it. But when we look at this type
12:05of margins which is to the tune of 2800, I think that is not acceptable to anybody.
12:10Whether as a regulator or as a consumer or a citizen, concerned citizen, it's not allowed.
12:15Now, why does a particular product which is sold to a particular hospital at a particular, say, 11 rupees rate,
12:23whose MRP is 325 odd rupees?
12:27It is really inexplicable to me. It is very, very revealing to me that why this gap exists.
12:34If they can sell at 11 rupees, then why can't it be MRP of a particular around that rupees? Maybe
12:3910%, 20%, 25% of margin. Why it takes to be 2800% odd to cap that MRP?
12:47And I think this is exactly the issue we have raised after our findings and that's why we have taken
12:52it to the appropriate forum and authority.
12:54Mr. Munde, are you proposing a cap or a fixed price for these hospital consumables? What is permissible limit?
13:01Like you yourself, say, certain hospitals, they have markups up to 2800 and even over is what we've also figured
13:08out. So, are you proposing a cap?
13:13So, I'm not proposing any cap, say, because the caps will be decided, MRP will be decided from product to
13:19product basis.
13:20Now, how much the margin should be there? While deciding MRP, it has to be rational, it has to be
13:26open, it has to be transparent.
13:28There cannot be this much gap. This is unexplicable. That's where we have suggested certain things, whether that should be
13:35brought under DPCO or that should be trade margins have to be decided
13:40or whether it has to be inter-agency coordination has to be there and the pricing monitoring mechanism has to
13:46be strengthened.
13:46There are certain four or five recommendations we have given, but it is for the authority to look into.
13:51They will go consult all the stakeholders in the sector, whether it is a pharmacy industry, whether it is a
13:57hospital, whether it is a regulators, whether it is a consumers.
14:01And after deliberation, consultations, NPPA will come up with appropriate interventions.
14:06That's what we have requested. There has to be intervention. There seems to be a gap along with the regulatory
14:11gap, policy gap and interventions are required.
14:15And we have taken up the issue. We have brushed up the issue. And I believe that with due deliberation
14:20in transparent manner that this issue will be addressed.
14:24Have you given a time limit for this issue to be addressed, sir? Because a lot of these recommendations and
14:31reviews go into a cold box.
14:34I am not an authority to give a time limit to the author. I am not an authority to give
14:38a time limit to NPPA. NPPA is the one who will decide it.
14:42But of course, there have been discussion. There have been interaction. And I think these interactions and discussions are on
14:48positive note.
14:49So, you know, most private hospitals say that what you suggest is far off from the economic realities of running
14:58a private hospital, like when you walk into a hotel, there are certain services that you pay for.
15:04For these hospitals, they suggest to keep a sanitized atmosphere, to have round-the-clock nursing and other exigency costs
15:12that are related to the hospital. These markups help them to offset, you know, the costs of the rest.
15:25See, when this is to be done, that will be done in consultation and discussion with the pharma industry itself.
15:31It is not going to be done by me. It is going to be done by national authority.
15:35And while arriving at a decision or if there is going to be intervention, that definitely will be discussed with
15:42hospitals as well and the pharmacy industry as well.
15:45It is not going to be unilateral decision. It is not going to be arbitrary decision. And that decision does
15:50not lie with me.
15:50And I will not be able to comment to what price, how much, what intervention will be done. Because that
15:56is for policy. That's a policy level matter. And policy level decision will be taken.
16:00But just to say that because we are running a hospital, we are aware you are running a hospital, but
16:06there has to be explanation for each and everything.
16:10If a particular product is MRP 320 odd rupees, is being sold to hospital 11 rupees, the same product which
16:19is outside will get at the same price, but where is this margin going?
16:23That is the valid question to be asked by either the consumer or a regulator for that matter. As this
16:29matter approached up to me, we looked into it, we studied it, we surveyed it and we found there is
16:34some rationale in it.
16:35This needs to be addressed, this needs to be, we need answers on this. And that's why we have taken
16:42it up with the appropriate authority.
16:44And I believe that with due deliberations, whatever is the right approach will have to be followed. Because pharmacy industry
16:52or manufacturer will not work in white. Hospitals will not work in white.
16:56At the same time, consumer will also not be work in white. They will not also be taken for right.
17:02So as per Drug and Control Act and rules there under, this is a major legislation along with the Essential
17:08Commodities Act.
17:09Other legislations also need to be taken into account, including consumer interest. We cannot just take that we are running
17:18the hospital, that's what we are entitled for this.
17:20What we need is a transparency, what we need is ethical practices, both from manufacturers, hospitals, as well as the
17:28consumers, along with legal practices.
17:30So that's where our role as a regulator comes in. That's where we have taken up the issue. And while
17:37taking a decision, interest of all stakeholders will have to be taken into consideration.
17:41Mr. Munde, you know, consumer interest has always been last in the pecking order. And I am sure as a
17:47regulator, you have seen that happen.
17:49The arbitrariness of markups in hospitals, you have rightly pointed out. But you do understand, it's not the first time.
17:58A lot of consumer interest bodies have constantly bobbed this up and they have hit a wall against very, very
18:04strong lobbies.
18:05You do understand, by bringing this up, once again, you could be in the crosshairs of certain very influential, powerful
18:11bodies.
18:16No, I am not at crossroads with anybody. I am basically performing a role which I am expected to perform.
18:24Being a regulator, being a public servant, that's my role. Being FDA commissioner of Maharashtra, drug administration in Maharashtra.
18:31Whatever the issues are in drug sector, whether from drug industry size, pharmacy industry size, hospital side or consumer side,
18:38we have to look into the issues.
18:40This is one of the issues. There are other issues which we have taken up about other sectors also.
18:46So, it has nothing to do against a particular lobby. We are here as a public servant. I am just
18:50trying to perform my role as a public servant.
18:53That's it. So, nobody has to take it in a negative context. We have to take it in a holistic
18:57context.
18:58The interest of all the stakeholders, including hospitals, including pharmacy industry, manufacturer, including consumers and, of course, the government has
19:05to be taken into consideration while arriving at a decision.
19:08Last question, sir. You are a regulatory body and as per you, what do you think would be a fair
19:17percentage markup? Because what you yourself said, right now you are looking at anything over 2800.
19:24That will be very difficult for me because that will be very, very difficult for me to comment upon because
19:30that role is of NPPA and the industry. So, they will deliberate upon it and they will decide upon it.
19:37I am no way authorized nor am expertise in that. But definitely as a regulator, if there are issues that
19:45I have to take up, we are taking up the issues along with other many, many other issues.
19:48Well, thank you so much, Mr. Munde, for taking it up. Like I said, you have echoed what has been,
19:54you know, the grouse of lacks of common men in this country where you go into hospitals and you are
20:01handed inflated bills without any explanation at all.
20:05And you have to pay for that. So, thank you for bringing it up. And you are right. You said
20:09you have little control, but you have flagged it. Let's hope that, you know, whatever your submissions are, are taken
20:15seriously and some tangible changes made.
20:17I just want to ask you one quick question, sir, before I let you go. And that for Mumbaikers could
20:23be, you know, as sensitive for some of them who followed Mondegar Cafe through the many years and decades and
20:29you have shut it.
20:30Now, what led you, Mr. Munde, to shut down Cafe Mondegar, which is iconic to Mumbai and South Mumbai?
20:44It's not about, I say, a view for me, whether it's a big or small. I have said many times
20:49on your channel as well. So, there are violations, scheduled for violations.
20:53There are non-compliances. And after non-compliance are found, we have suspended the license. We have not canceled it
20:59yet. If they comply with that, we'll reinstate their license.
21:03If they don't comply, we'll go for a cancellation of it. So, it's basically about a public health issue. It
21:08is about standards and regulations not being followed.
21:11And detailed press note I have issued yesterday. So, the reasons are also mentioned therein. I need not repeat it.
21:17Only issue is that whoever is a food business operator, either a licensee or registered one, please follow these regulations
21:25because we are dealing with the health of the people.
21:27Munde, if I know you do want to repeat, you know, what the issues were with Cafe Mondegar, but what
21:32was the biggest glaring issue that you said that this has, there has to be a suspension letter, not a
21:38warning?
21:41It's not, yeah, it's not, as I said, Schedule 4 violation is the non-negotiable thing. And there are violations
21:47about Schedule 4 as per regulations of registration and licensing regulation 2011.
21:52So, Schedule 4 has a lot of many components and they have been pointed out to them. It's not something
21:57which is opaque, it's absolutely transparent.
21:59In the suspension notice itself, those have been pointed out which are compliances, which are non-compliances, which are partial
22:04compliances.
22:05It is intimated to them. They have to come with compliances and further process will take place.
22:10Mr. Munde, thank you so much for joining us. You know, Cafe Mondegar might be just one cafe there, but
22:15what you have raised in terms of hospital is something that is going to resonate way beyond Maharashtra.
22:22Lacks of, you know, common middle-class families face the brunt of this. Thank you, sir, for joining us. Thank
22:28you.
22:32All right, viewers, let's take the conversation further now.
22:35Joining me is Dr. Rajiv Jaiwardhan, Honorary Senior Consultant, Gastroenterologist, Sunrise Hospital, Cochin, Chairman Scientific Committee, IMA Cochin, Past President,
22:46Indian Medical Association, Cochin Branch.
22:48I also have with me Abhijit Bose, Chief Operating Officer, Consumer Voice.
22:54I'd like to, you know, cut across first to the doctor who's joining us, Dr. Jayadevan.
23:01Dr. Jayadevan, you know, you just heard Mr. Munde there.
23:05And it's quite astounding that the markups that, in his review, that, you know, have come to light, is anywhere
23:14from 1,000% to 2,850% on hospital consumable goods.
23:21Which pretty much echo where what most has been the grouse of middle-class families across the country, where they
23:29are handed this one fat bill by hospitals and there is just no explanation behind them.
23:35This is a good question, and for our viewers, let me clarify something up front.
23:40MRP, or Maximum Retail Price, is the maximum price a seller can charge a consumer for a package product.
23:49So, which means if it is, whether it's a syringe or an implant or an IV set, the consumer should
23:57not be charged even one rupee above the MRP, which is printed on the package.
24:04The issue here is, is the MRP being far greater than what the hospital paid to purchase this product from
24:16the manufacturer.
24:16It's not that the hospitals are selling above the MRP.
24:21I just want to get that clear.
24:23The issue here is whether there should be a limit on how much the manufacturer can mark up the MRP.
24:35For example, if a product costs 10 rupees to manufacture, can they put a price of 20 rupees or 200
24:43rupees on the packet?
24:45Right now, under Indian law, there is no cap on how much they can mark up such a product.
24:55In contrast to certain essential medicines, we know that there is something called the essential medicine list.
25:01For instance, paracetamol, basic antibiotics like ampicillin.
25:06And they all have a price cap with certain caveats in the sense, certain dosages and certain routes of administration,
25:15certain preparations.
25:15They come with certain price caps.
25:17So, nobody can charge a patient more than the price cap.
25:22But this price cap does not apply to consumables, which can range from something as small as a glove set,
25:30to a gown, to an IV set, to a stent, to an implant.
25:34So, the issue here that is being raised is how much can you mark it up?
25:40So, that is the issue.
25:41But Dr. Jai Devan, one direct question, which has been raised by Mr. Munde, which is constantly raised in multiple
25:51private hospitals across the country, and there is no real answer to it.
25:55Where, with what you say, where hospital consumables are concerned, and we'll give the list out in terms of the
26:01markups.
26:01The IV set that you speak of, the MRP is 17 rupees, but it's retailed in hospital.
26:07The price that they charge is over 60 rupees.
26:10How does this add up?
26:12Yeah, it should not add up.
26:13And there must be what is called a trade margin rationalization.
26:18That is, say, not all IV sets are manufactured with the same quality or up to the same standard.
26:25It's just like all mobile phones are not the same.
26:28But there must be a limit to which the initial price can be increased.
26:34But Dr. Jai Devan, that's what I'm saying.
26:35You know, we're giving, it's actually not 50, 11 rupees an IV set.
26:38It's in hospitals, it's charged over 300 rupees.
26:42A catheter, 29 rupees is the MRP, and it's been charged in hospitals.
26:47The markup is a 94% at 310.
26:49Why is it?
26:50And it's a question that every person who visits or is forced to visit a hospital and is admitted asks.
26:58Why is this massive markup, which goes not just beyond 100%, but sometimes, like Mr. Munde pointed out, 2,800
27:08% markup.
27:09Yes, the hospital should not, by law, be selling any product to the patients above the maximum retail price.
27:18The hospital should not do that.
27:20If they're doing that, that's against the law.
27:22But they're doing it across all hospitals.
27:24I just want to bring in Avijit Bose, Chief Operating Officer, Consumer Voice in this.
27:28You know, Mr. Bose, what Mr. Munde has practically done is voiced the frustration of lacks of Indians who face
27:37this on a daily level where any hospital admission practically means wiping out the savings of an entire family.
27:45And most of it comes in terms of hospital consumables, sometimes marked up to 2,800% with no answers
27:53or explanation given.
27:56I would say the issue is not whether a hospital should make money.
28:01The issue is whether a captive consumer should pay a price that has no transparent relationship with the procurement price.
28:08I would slightly disagree with the doctor that hospitals are not aware.
28:17It is being, you know, portrayed as hospital is not aware.
28:20Now the consumer is also aware.
28:22In fact, the consumer has lost trust in hospitals.
28:26That's a very sad story.
28:29So, and the patients, the patients who are not very literate are also exposed to AI and Internet now.
28:36So, hey guys, change.
28:38Now is the time we should not, you know, keep anyone into doubt.
28:44So, the difference between trade price and MRP is huge.
28:48So, I was seeing on your screen, it is still playing 600%, 700%, 900%, 2,800% as Mr. Munday
28:57said.
28:57And I must appreciate Mr. Munday's step.
29:00Except for one thing, Mundagar Coffee, which was my favorite.
29:04So, anyhow, that's not the point of discussion here.
29:06So, the thing is, we must, you know, inculcate trust in our consumers if we do these kind of things,
29:15which is 900% to 2,800% markup.
29:17And secondly, the markup should be regulated by the regulators, especially when the patient is absolutely captive in such situations.
29:27And markup percentage also should be managed if the cost of the consumable is very high.
29:34So, if the cost is very high, the markup percentage should be less.
29:40So, that is what I would say is the right way.
29:43And NPPA has already experienced in the case of stents.
29:47But Mr. Bose, this is not the first time.
29:49And the question I want to ask you is, this is not the first time that it has been flagged.
29:53This time, of course, it's come from Mr. Munday.
29:56But a lot of consumer bodies have flagged it time and time again and always hit a wall.
30:02And we have been, you know, fighting a lot about this thing.
30:05I mean, constantly we are chasing this issue.
30:10All right.
30:11You know, I thank both of you for joining us because I really hope Mr. Munday has raised this issue.
30:17And he says he's asked for a review.
30:19Now, will that review happen?
30:21Because for a lot of us out there, and, you know, there's, I don't think any family who doesn't agree
30:27or resonate with what Mr. Munday has said,
30:31that every time you walk into a hospital, you do not know what is the bill that you will be
30:36handed over at the end of your unfortunate hospital stay.
30:39And a lot of that bill is contingent also on hospital consumables, which in certain parts have been marked up
30:49to 2,800 percent of the MRP.
30:53Let's really hope something comes out of this, something tangible, and there is a fixed price or at least a
30:59cap on this.
31:00I thank both our guests for joining us.
31:01I want to quickly dip into the latest news break that is coming in from the Finance Ministry.
31:06The Finance Ministry, viewers, has rejected the opposition's charge of a foreign influence behind decision to impose 0.4 percent
31:14merchant discount rate on UPI transactions above rupees 2,000.
31:18Now, this clarification follows accusations by certain opposition parties, including the Congress, that the government succumbed to U.S. pressure
31:27in taking the decision to impose MDR.
31:29In a statement on the Platform X, Finance Ministry has insisted that India's UPI policy decisions are made independently, with
31:38the clear goal of building a self-sustaining, inclusive and affordable digital payment ecosystem.
31:46All right, all of this explanation coming in from the Finance Ministry at the back of many opposition parties that
31:53have alleged a foreign hand in possible, what they call a tax now,
31:59that will be put on UPI dealings, which is of course, which is P2N, person to merchant, not person to
32:07person, and a 0.4 percent of that tax on any transaction over 2,000 rupees you had.
32:15The Congress, especially Rahul Gandhi, also a short while ago posted a video on X, charging the government of manipulation
32:23at the behest of foreign hand.
32:26And joining me now is my colleague Aishwarya, who's getting us up to speed with the latest Aishwarya.
32:31You've had the Finance Ministry trying very hard to counter the narrative built by the opposition at the back of
32:39the 0.4 percent surcharge.
32:43Well, definitely, you know, we are seeing, Preeti, how the government, in fact, is in an overdrive to give clarification,
32:48because what's happening at the moment,
32:50and this is something which a lot of people are also asking questions about, you know, people like you and
32:54I, we really need to know,
32:55will we be paying extra when we will be using UPI, the amount more than 2,000 rupees?
33:01See, at the moment, the government is saying that they want the merchants to bear the cost, but will that
33:07be a reality?
33:07That is something that, you know, in the form of a clarification has now come from the Finance Ministry.
33:12Finance Ministry sources very, very clearly saying that India's UPI policy is working independently.
33:18This also, let me tell you, is answer to what Rahul Gandhi has been often speaking about.
33:22Just a couple of hours ago, he made a video and he is saying that there is foreign conspiracy pointing
33:28fingers at the USA.
33:29The government, very, very clear, our policy is independent of any kind of influence from any country in the world.
33:37So, this is a clarification coming in from the Finance Ministry, from the government,
33:40and they are saying that nothing of this sort, you know, the kind of 2 plus 2 that most of
33:46the opposition parties have been doing,
33:47specifically the Congress party clarifications coming in from that.
33:51But yes, after the 15th of October, everyone will keep a hawk's eye on how much he or she will
33:56pay when they will use the UPI,
33:58because that is something which is still in the grey area at the moment.
34:02All right, Aishwarya, thank you there for joining us with that quick update.
34:05We are going to keep coming back to you for more.
34:07Meanwhile, let's quickly now shift focus from one story that we have been tracking very, very closely
34:12to the trolling, especially on social media where actor Katrina Kaif is concerned.
34:19A woman gains weight and suddenly the internet thinks it has the right to weigh in with an opinion.
34:25Katrina Kaif is the latest actor who is in the public eye to face a barrage of comments over her
34:32appearance
34:33after she was spotted at Ganesh Chaturthi celebrations with her husband, Vicky Kaushal.
34:38Well, right from Aishwarya Rai to Sonakshi Sinha to Huma Qureshi,
34:43women in the public eye have repeatedly been judged for their weight, age, changing bodies.
34:48So why does a woman's body still remain a public talking point?
34:53Here's more.
34:58Katrina Kaif went to a Ganesh Chaturthi celebration and the internet went after her body.
35:05Her crime?
35:06Apparently, she did not look the way they wanted her to.
35:11Katrina's rare public appearance with Vicky Kaushal at the Ambani Ganesh Chaturthi celebration
35:16quickly became fodder for trolls.
35:22Comments dissected her face, her weight, her body, even her clothes.
35:27Some compared her latest pictures with older images,
35:30putting her body under a microscope and picking apart every visible change.
35:38All because a woman who has gone through pregnancy and motherhood does not look exactly as she did before.
35:47And thankfully, fans weren't having it.
35:50They hit back at the trolls.
35:52She's 14.
35:53She's a new mother.
35:54And her body does not need to meet your beauty standards.
35:59But here is the bigger problem.
36:01Katrina is not an exception.
36:05Aishwarya Rai has faced relentless scrutiny over her weight and ageing.
36:12Sonam Kapoor has spoken about trolls calling her too fat and questioning who would marry her.
36:19Sonakshi Sinha lost 30 kilos and still face comments about her body.
36:27Sonam Kapoor has spoken about being told her arms were too big to look good opposite a hero.
36:37Sonam Kapoor has spoken about her body.
36:38Different women, same obsession.
36:41Too fat, too old.
36:43Too curvy, too much.
36:46And apparently, never just enough.
36:49Why do we behave as if a woman's body is public property?
36:53Why must she remain frozen at 20?
36:56Why is pregnancy expected to leave no mark?
37:00Why is ageing acceptable on a man, but treated like a crime on a woman?
37:06This isn't concern or criticism.
37:09It is body policing.
37:10And maybe the most shocking part isn't that women are being judged.
37:15It's how comfortable people have become doing it.
37:19Bureau Report, India Today.
37:24All right, viewers, I just want to bring in to this conversation
37:27because all of us have seen the conversation around Katrina Kaif.
37:32And to say there are two parts to it, and let's break it down.
37:35There are the bad guys and the good guys.
37:37The bad guys are the ones who are constantly ridiculing her,
37:40humiliating her, making memes of her, comparing her to other actresses.
37:44Then there are what they think are the good guys
37:48who have immediately come in thinking they are defending her
37:51with explanations like, oh, this is postpartum.
37:54She's grown a human.
37:56Hormones shift during pregnancy.
37:58She's 40.
37:59She's taking a break.
38:00Why can't she be allowed to do so?
38:02Most of them don't understand.
38:04And I'm talking about the good guys there who think they're defending her,
38:07are doing not just her, but women who are in the public eye,
38:11the biggest disservice.
38:12They're not breaking any stereotypes.
38:13They're actually defending the stereotypes in this
38:17and reinforcing that stereotype,
38:18are offering a medical explanation.
38:22The reason why, oh, she's put on weight.
38:25Pregnancy.
38:26Pregnancy, no pregnancy.
38:28Postpartum, no postpartum.
38:30Why should a woman be subject to ridicule or humiliation
38:35or being judged on her weight, on her appearance?
38:39I want to bring in very quickly into this conversation Tara Deshpande, author, actor.
38:44Sanjana Galrani, South Indian philanthropist.
38:47Both of them joined me live.
38:49Tara, I want to bring you in on this because, you know,
38:51I'll tell you personally what I think is problematic
38:54and I think a lot of Indians should find it problematic
38:57is to give explanations that the weight gain of Katrina Kaif
39:03deserves a medical explanation
39:05because somewhere down the line it's a failure
39:07that she's put on weight
39:09but there is a medical explanation
39:10because she was pregnant.
39:14Yeah, I don't think that any explanation should be offered
39:17because it's really nobody's business.
39:25I'm sorry.
39:26Yeah, you're with us.
39:28I don't think any explanation of any kind should be offered.
39:31It's nobody's business.
39:32And I don't believe that these actresses
39:34who have worked in the industry for a very long time
39:36and who have developed a thick skin
39:37really give a toss about what anybody who's really mean-spirited
39:41and who's unhappy with themselves.
39:43I mean, these kinds of comments are a classic example of self-loathing.
39:47You're unhappy with yourself, you're unhappy with your life
39:49so you pick on other people.
39:51I don't think any explanation in the future is warranted.
39:53I think people like this should just be blocked or ignored.
39:56And the moment you ignore them and they get no response
39:58they're just going to disappear automatically.
40:01It's, you know, but the one thing that I do want to say at this point
40:04is, you know, this was started around the 90s by the press.
40:09You know, the traditional press used to use terms like thunder thighs
40:12and jelly belly and unrecognizable and all kinds of negative terms.
40:17I'm sure you remember those newspaper articles
40:19where women's body parts were circled
40:21with arrows drawn to show, oh, look at her belly,
40:24oh, look at her arms, oh, look at her hips.
40:27You know, so this trend is not something new.
40:29It's existed for a really long time and it's an Indian problem.
40:33When you go abroad, you don't see this as much.
40:35This happens not only to women who are in the media,
40:38but it happens to women who are not in the media as well.
40:40Though there is a very special meanness that is reserved
40:43for people who are associated with Bollywood.
40:46But Tara, it's really not an Indian problem
40:48because you've had the likes of Kate Winslet
40:50who've talked in detail about being body shamed.
40:53It's a problem worldwide in India because it's okay.
40:58It's a problem in the media worldwide.
41:00No, I agree.
41:01It's a problem with any woman who's in the public eye
41:05and she's, you know, free for anyone to comment
41:09where her weight and her appearance is concerned.
41:11I just want to bring in Sanjana Galrani
41:13into this conversation as well.
41:15Ms. Galrani, the fact is, you know,
41:17pregnancy is not a crisis
41:19and it doesn't need a medical explanation
41:23to somewhere down the line say,
41:25oh, it's okay, she's put on this weight
41:28because she was pregnant.
41:30Why give these explanations?
41:31It's nobody's business, but Katrina Kaep's business.
41:35It's nobody's business, but Aishwarya Rai's business.
41:38So a lot of women out there
41:39who think they're really doing good
41:40or a lot of men out there
41:42who think they're coming in to defend Katrina Kaep
41:44by saying, oh, she's 40, you know,
41:47pregnancy hormones are shifting.
41:49That's why the weight is there.
41:50Give her a break.
41:51All of this only reinforces the same old stereotype
41:54that you're trying to offer an excuse
41:56for a body that has changed.
42:00I am someone who really appreciates compliments.
42:04I am also in the limelight for the last 20 years.
42:08I'm a film actor.
42:09I'm a mother of two.
42:10I was blessed with a son four and a half years ago
42:12and my daughter is just 16 months old.
42:14And my weight also terribly fluctuated.
42:17And I went through everything that Katrina Kaep
42:20is going on right now in the southern part of India.
42:23And what happens to us that as actresses,
42:26they see us having, you know,
42:30very perfect bodies,
42:31the way we look to everything.
42:32So somewhere people have an expectation
42:35that she will always look this perfect.
42:37Even I had put on, like, I was 85 kilos.
42:39I've come back to 68 or 69 right now.
42:42But I think I really look down at trollers.
42:47I condemn trollers.
42:49And I dare to not,
42:52I dare tell them that please stay away from any woman,
42:56not just a film actor for body shaming her
42:59or for looking down at her
43:01because she has put on weight.
43:02Because it's none of your personal business.
43:04As a fan, if you say that,
43:06ma'am, I would have loved it
43:07if you'd have lost a little bit of weight
43:09sooner than later,
43:10it's still accepted, you know.
43:12It's a compliment or it's a request from a fan.
43:14But there's a line that each troller needs to draw.
43:18You have to respect each and every human space.
43:22If a film actor is in the actor domain,
43:24that does not mean,
43:25or the public domain,
43:26that does not mean that she's wrong.
43:28But Sanjana, it's really not about trollers as well.
43:31Because you can,
43:33and I'll bring in Tara back into this conversation
43:35because Tara,
43:36trolls will be trolls, right?
43:37Right, right from eons,
43:39we've always had a certain set
43:41that has, you know,
43:43especially where women
43:44who have been in the public eye
43:45constantly put them under the spotlight,
43:48put them on a metric
43:50where they are gauged on the basis
43:51of how they look,
43:52their weight,
43:53their skin,
43:53their hair,
43:54how they dress.
43:55This has happened forever.
43:56The conversation we need to start having, Tara,
43:59which we're not really having,
44:00is those who think
44:01that they are defending the likes of Katrina Kaif
44:04by offering an explanation,
44:06a biological explanation
44:07of pregnancy,
44:09of hormones,
44:10for her weight,
44:10it's nobody's business.
44:11There should only be one explanation for this.
44:14Yes.
44:15You know,
44:15women are judged so harshly in India.
44:18If your skin color is too dark,
44:20it's a problem,
44:21no one's going to marry you.
44:22If your hair is curly,
44:24it's a problem,
44:24no one's going to marry you.
44:25If your eyes are not a certain shape,
44:27oh, you know,
44:28you need to do something about it.
44:30There's always something physical
44:32to criticize in women.
44:33And, you know,
44:34earlier I had said
44:35that it's an Indian problem.
44:36What I meant was,
44:37yes, media,
44:38it's a global problem.
44:39But in India,
44:40we have all these strange stereotypes
44:42about how women should look
44:43in the marriage market,
44:44how they should look
44:45before they get married
44:46and after they get married
44:47and after they have children.
44:48We have set women up
44:50to constantly
44:51be at the butt end
44:52of other people's opinions.
44:54So you're moving basically
44:55from one opinion to another.
44:57I mean,
44:57how many times have you heard,
44:59even before someone asks you,
45:01oh, how are you doing?
45:02It's so lovely to see you.
45:03You know,
45:04how's life?
45:04What have you been up to?
45:05Oh, oh, hi.
45:07You've gained weight, huh?
45:08Oh, your hair has like thinned.
45:10It's become a,
45:12it's a very typical
45:14conversation
45:15that you have
45:16in Indian drawing rooms
45:17or in Indian,
45:18you know,
45:19social settings.
45:20But it seems to,
45:21I don't know,
45:22people think they're being
45:22very clever
45:23when they come up to you
45:24and especially men do this.
45:25When they come up to you
45:26and they make comments
45:27of this nature.
45:28And sometimes I think
45:30it's so laughable
45:31because I want to turn around
45:32and say,
45:32dude,
45:33have you looked at yourself
45:34in the mirror?
45:35You know,
45:35but one is more polite
45:36and one is more sensitive
45:38and one has been brought up
45:39to be kind
45:40and sensitive to people.
45:42So one doesn't,
45:42you know,
45:43react in that sort of way.
45:45But I think
45:45we've come to a point
45:46now where we really
45:47need to understand
45:48that this sort of behavior
45:49is not just insensitive,
45:51it's unacceptable.
45:53And it needs to stop.
45:54You know,
45:55I've walked into boardrooms
45:56I've walked into boardrooms
45:58for business.
45:58I've walked into banks
46:00to open accounts
46:00and I've heard people
46:02commenting on my looks.
46:03Sometimes positively,
46:04sometimes negatively
46:05and I don't want
46:06either of those comments
46:07because I'm not here
46:08to put up a show for you.
46:10I'm here to do business.
46:11I'm here to give you
46:12the benefit of my opinion
46:13or my intelligence
46:13or my money.
46:16Why does everything
46:17about women in India
46:18have to become one?
46:18That's all the time I have.
46:19But, you know,
46:20I thank you, Tara.
46:21Thank you, Ms. Galrani
46:21for joining us.
46:22That's all the time we have.
46:23It's a quick close
46:23on this bulletin.
46:25But viewers,
46:25please do think about it
46:26because for those of you
46:27who think that you are
46:29defending the likes
46:29of Katrina Kaif
46:30by coming out and saying,
46:32oh, didn't you know
46:33that she was pregnant?
46:34She actually grew a human?
46:35That hormones were shifting
46:37in her body?
46:38Give her a break.
46:38Well, you're reinforcing
46:40the same stereotype
46:41that has been there
46:42where women
46:43and them being objectified
46:45at every stage
46:46of their life,
46:47especially women
46:47who've been in the public eye.
46:48So think a little more
46:50on that.
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