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Ancien membre des Beastie Boys, un des premiers groupes de rap, Mike D publie son premier album solo, "Thank You", quatorze ans après la mort de son ami MCA, membre lui aussi des Beastie Boys. Il raconte la genèse de ce disque et revient sur les années new-yorkaises qui ont vu les Beastie Boys passer du punk au rap à Matthieu Culleron, spécialiste musique de la rédaction de France Inter.
France Inter, la radio généraliste du service public, vous propose chaque jour l'actualité, des débats de société, de l'humour et de grands entretiens. Retrouvez ici les meilleurs moments de nos émissions : interviews, chroniques et coups de gueule qui font l'identité de France Inter depuis plus de 60 ans.
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France Inter, la radio généraliste du service public, vous propose chaque jour l'actualité, des débats de société, de l'humour et de grands entretiens. Retrouvez ici les meilleurs moments de nos émissions : interviews, chroniques et coups de gueule qui font l'identité de France Inter depuis plus de 60 ans.
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MusiqueTranscription
00:00punk, post-punk, new wave. It was all cool. It was all exciting, but rap music was revolutionary.
00:08Like that was like really the thing that was like, well, this changes everything, you know.
00:15So Mike, how was it like to be back in Paris?
00:19So it's always nice to be like be here. And I know a lot of friends here from different areas
00:26of life.
00:27So, yeah. When did you start thinking about this album? Do you remember that?
00:32I had no plan to make a record. I wasn't even thinking about it. We just, we, I was with
00:38my two sons.
00:41We share a studio where we live in California. And then a couple who are friends of ours and she,
00:48she's a film composer and he's a music producer and they just had a baby. So that, you know,
00:52they're used to working all the time on their music. And so they called us up. They're like,
00:56well, we want to make music, but we can't really make, we can't really work right now.
01:01We just had a baby. What is like, do you guys want to come over and we'll just start making
01:04stuff? And so we were like, oh yeah, let's go. You know, but there was no expectation. Right. And
01:09then gradually I started doing some vocals on things, but still again, with no expectation.
01:17And it wasn't actually, it was months later. I was, I was actually here in France,
01:22but in the Southwest and I was visiting some friends and I was surfing and I was driving
01:28around with a friend of mine. And there's just one of those like beautiful days. And she,
01:33she had played me, um, Gina Birch. I don't know what it's called. I, uh, I play my bass loud.
01:39Like as a solo record by Gina Birch, who used to be in a group called the raincoats.
01:43I loved when I was like much, I was like, I don't know, 14 or something when I loved the
01:48raincoats. Um, and I just kind of thought, oh, like, what am I doing? I should, I, you know,
01:55I really want to be making a record. So then I called up my, I called up Davis and Skyler
02:02and Beards and said, look, I'm going to be back in a couple of weeks. And then I called up
02:06a couple
02:06of other musician, musician friends and said like, Hey, I'm coming back in a couple of weeks. Let's,
02:12I'm going to, um, let's commit to like using the, it was at our home studios, commit, like lock it
02:19out for a couple of weeks and just, we'll just see what happens. And, uh, and that was kind of
02:24really the like beginning. You said somewhere that before that it was a kind of difficult for you
02:30because of the loss of, uh, Adam, it was difficult for you to make music again. Um, well, yes, but
02:35that
02:35was years or, I mean, that's like a lot of time in between. Right. So it was very difficult,
02:40like right after, you know, MCA, Adam Rialc, like once he died, I tried a little bit, but every time
02:47I tried to opening up like a file, like a file or whatever, I would just get too sad and
02:52just kind
02:52of put it away. Um, and then, you know, time went by and then, then I think it was also
02:59helpful.
03:00Then, uh, Adam Horvath said, we did a, we finished the book project, Beastie Boys book. So then that
03:06was, I think for both of us, like a really nice exercise where we got to sort of like do
03:13it with
03:13each other, support each other, edit each other, but, you know, like kind of remember things like
03:21and come to grips with things, uh, in the past, like in a, in a, you know, it was nice
03:28to be able
03:28to have that room to do it. And then we did the film with Spike. So I think that was
03:33a big,
03:33that was a very important part of kind of, again, it took a while after that, but then I was
03:40it to
03:40being able to start, uh, I don't know, being able to make my own things. And then I think also
03:46it was
03:46helpful. Like I had worked a bit on other, like producing and co-writing on other people's records,
03:52but it was, that was helpful even doing the rate, the radio show I did for a while, uh, called
03:57the
03:57echo chamber. That was helpful because it's like, it all has me engaging with music in a different
04:02way, but kind of like gives me, it's like still ultimately it's like ideas to what I ultimately
04:11want to make at some point, you know,
04:13Because in your mind, Beastie Boys were part of the past, but in a good way.
04:17Well, I had lots of good memories, you know, and then, I mean, of course we lost, we grieved our
04:22friend very much, but we also like, it's, it's, you know, mostly like an amazing journey that we
04:30got to all have together. So I think that's always that again, that's what was great about
04:34doing the book and the film. We got to sort of like, I don't express that in a nice, like,
04:41encapsulated way. And then also that's where it's like, I think it's nice because then it kind of
04:46continues on for people in a way.
04:48And making music with your songs is a very completely different process from what you've
04:52been doing so far. So was it part of the solution as well, to make music again?
04:57I mean, it ended up being part of my solution. I wouldn't necessarily recommend it to everybody.
05:03But for me, it was good.
05:06I think, I think, well, I think there's a few different things. I think I like working
05:11collaboratively. Like I, you know, some people want to just be alone and either be on like,
05:15be, you know, you could be like Aphex Twin and be a mad genius on a computer.
05:23You know, or you could be like Nick Drake and just have a guitar and hide away from everybody. But
05:30you know, that's one, that's, those are both ways of working. But for me, I like,
05:36you know, calling somebody up, oh, do you want to get together tomorrow? Let's meet at your
05:40studio. Let's meet at my studio. Let me see if I have an idea like that, you know, and then
05:45just going from there. I like working in that kind of collaborative, in that kind of collaborative
05:54way. And like I said, work with my, you know, with my sons, it's nice because it just feels
06:00is very organic because we share a studio anyway. Right. So it's not like it takes this
06:07pressure out. And then, so then when the ideas come, we can just kind of like start.
06:13Did you have a precise idea of what you wanted to make on this record before the recording process
06:17or was it in a stylistic way?
06:20No, no, I don't, I don't, I'm not like, but it was always the case with the band too. Like
06:25we never,
06:25I don't like think of, oh, this is going to be the whatever. I don't have like a concept that
06:31this
06:31is going to be the whatever album for each song. I might like start with like, I start with like
06:36an
06:36idea, but then usually then what we end up making my ideas here, then we finish like all the way
06:43over
06:44there. We miss, we miss it by a lot. Of course, the diversity of the on this album is everywhere.
06:51You know, you many styles of music, the punk music is, is there in a way?
06:57You know, I'm not good at making things perfect. I'm not good at making things polished or like,
07:02or pop sounding. So it's like every, you know, it's, I guess it's more like it's not so much even
07:11punk. I guess I would say more do it yourself, DIY, like do it yourself. Let's think that's
07:15That was the punk slogan.
07:17Yeah. But that's what I think I learned. That was like the biggest gift. I think punk rock gave
07:21us like we, you know, it was starting as like a hardcore band. We had to do everything ourselves.
07:27We had to make the flyers. We had to make the cassettes. We had to, you know,
07:31to help people play in shows. We had to book the show. We did, you know, get the gear into
07:36the taxi.
07:37Exactly. So we learned every, but I think, but I think that is, there's a lot of joy.
07:42That time?
07:43Yeah. This, this time I had no, you know, I still have no idea what I'm doing, but then
07:47I definitely had no idea. Yeah. But I, I really, you know, that was a great thing. And I think
07:55there is part of that, like with this record, I still like the fact that I don't, I do, I
08:00mean
08:00it like that. I still, there's a lot of equipment I'm using that I don't know how to use. So
08:05that's
08:05part of my fun.
08:06That kind of music was part of your life from the, when you were a kid, when you were a
08:12teenager.
08:13Why did, why did you decide one day to become a punk band before to be a hip hop or
08:18rap artist?
08:19Because I think, I think like I was talking about the Ramones earlier, but like the Ramones,
08:25I mean the Ramones were like perfect when you're, I was like whatever, 13 years old. So it's like short
08:30songs. There's still a little bit like pop music, but that it's really aggressive, you know,
08:37like loud guitar. You can learn to play the songs pretty easy. Like it's very, like punk was perfect
08:44because it, yeah, I had, and it also punk, like it just, it broadened my mind, right? When I heard
08:49like the clash first album, then there's police and thieves is on there. And I didn't really know what
08:55reggae was, but it made me want to learn about reggae. And then I heard the Slitz first album,
09:02same thing. Like, so I was like, oh, okay, they're doing the reggae. I need to learn
09:09about. So it was, it was a great, and like I said to you, it was a great starting point
09:13to learn new
09:14things. And then I think actually, I think almost like the post-punk time of music is kind of, I
09:20think,
09:20a little bit maybe underrated because it wasn't like, it wasn't as big, it didn't make the impact
09:28that punk rock did. And it didn't have like huge commercial success, but then there was a lot,
09:35it was a very free area. Like post-punk is almost like, it doesn't even really make sense. It is
09:42just
09:42a time period because you have a lot of diverse kinds of music because you have like a public image
09:48limited, but then you have like raincoats or young marble giants that are almost more like
09:55quiet, like folk folkish kind of groups, but in not like, not the way that we thought folk music
10:01had not in any kind of retro way. And then you had like groups like ESG that were like,
10:11I don't even know how to describe ESG. You know, it's like, it's just like from another planet,
10:15you know, or liquid liquid, you know, like the music that was kind of like taking some of the
10:20dance music that was happening in New York, but doing it totally different.
10:27Was it part of the reason you decided to become a rap collective?
10:31Well, then the rap happened because we were listening to all of the music that I was just
10:35talking about, you know, whether it's like punk, post-punk, all the New York kind of no,
10:40not, not as much no wave, but just all the New York, like ESG, liquid liquid, you know,
10:47different things. And anyways, even some of, some of the Manchester things like the New Order,
10:58like Joy Division, like things like that. But then with them, when we heard, I think rap was different
11:05because like, I mean, first started hearing rap, like there was Rapper's Delight, which was like the
11:11first song in the world to play like as the big commercial like rap single. But you know, I think
11:19both at the time and historically, like we can see like, that's like a very, like well produced,
11:24like it was made, it was very specific, like how it existed. It was made to take like something and
11:31get
11:31it on the radio, kind of like it was, you know, made with this kind of like production. And then
11:37I heard, I remember we all heard Grandmaster Flash, was it Grandmaster Flash and the Wheels of
11:44Steel? Like when he's like, it's actually, I guess, to me, in my mind anyway, it's like the first like,
11:48both scratching and sampling record, or like overtly scratching and sampling
11:57record. And that was like a revolutionary record in every sense for me. It was like
12:04exciting in a way no other record was. It was like, intellectually, in terms of like ideas,
12:10I was like, oh, I want to make that, you know, like so. And then that's when at the same
12:15time,
12:15like when that happened, then like kind of rap music started to come to like the downtown New York
12:20clubs that we go to. So like Funky Four plus one more place, like they played a show at this
12:26place
12:26called Rock Lounge, and we were all there. And we were like, so the second we started really,
12:30and then Africa Bambaataa and Jazzy J came and DJed at this teeny club called the Negril,
12:38called Negril. And that club night, that would go on to become the Roxy. But at first it started at
12:43this like smaller downtown club that we were all and we were all at for that thing. And so it
12:50was
12:50like, the second we saw that, that changed everything, because then I was like, all right,
12:56that's what we want to do, because I just see more rap music is like, punk, post-punk, new wave,
13:04all the New York downtown things. It was all cool. It was all exciting. It was, but rap music was
13:12revolutionary. Like that was like, really the thing that was like, well, this changes everything.
13:18You know?
13:19So one morning you said, okay, we're going to make this music.
13:23I wouldn't say morning. I wouldn't say morning. I think it was one night. But I think literally,
13:29like, you know, like being at like those club nights, like being at Negril, you're hearing like
13:34Bambaataa and Jazzy J. But yeah, just hearing that, it was like,
13:41yeah, yeah. Forget about like, or then we got, then you want to get rid of your boots and get
13:46some
13:46Adidas Sheltos. I mean, that makes it sound like a fashion thing. It's not a fashion thing. It was just
13:50like,
13:52like I said, musically, is that it went from exciting to revolutionary. So what do you want to be,
13:58you know, I'd rather be, it just seemed so, you know, so, just so much more exciting to be revolutionary
14:05than,
14:06yeah.
14:07Yeah. The club scene, the disco scene, the rap music, there was a lot of things at the time.
14:12A lot of things, but I think that's where it was very unique, like in growing up in New York
14:17City,
14:17right? That's what I think I talk about, like on this record, like one of the things I'm thankful
14:23for, I get to grow up in this world where I'm in all these clubs and within a small
14:31area, right? You've got like Paradise Garage where like, kind of like a lot of the birth of like,
14:37you know, what becomes dance music or clubbing culture, whatever comes from there. Then you've
14:44got this club, Dance Arteria, which is where like, we sell like, like the home of kind of like ESG,
14:50liquid, liquid, bush, chest, things like that. But it's also one of the first places rap,
14:54rap music would come down to. And then, like I said, the club I was talking about in a grill,
14:59where it was like the first place where it was a reggae club, but the first place that had a,
15:04you know, a rap music night, nobody had heard downtown having a rap music night, you know? So,
15:11and you had like the mud club that was like everything, you know, like art. And there was
15:15another club downtown called Area that was like a combination. They had like,
15:21kind of like windows, like they had at museums when we were kids, like specifically the Museum
15:26of Natural History in New York. They had these big glass showcases in the club, but the artists that
15:32worked on them every week, just because they needed jobs, it was like Keith Haring. And I think Jean-Michel
15:39also, Basquiat also worked on the, yeah. So, you know what I mean? Like, this was all
15:48going on at the same time. And it's like, I was just, you know, we were just kids in the
15:53club.
15:53So you don't really know, they're like, okay, Keith Haring was kind of starting to get famous. And
15:58we'd be like, oh, that's Keith Haring. And then we're like, we met Keith Haring. It's like exciting.
16:02So then it was like, became more like, oh, we like, we're just people that are going to
16:07the clubs like the way Keith Haring does. You know what I mean? It all became sort of more
16:12of, or we became more part of that community, which was like a really exciting thing. And you're
16:19getting to hear all this different music from all different worlds. You know, you just by walking
16:24from one club to another, you know, it's in a pretty small amount of distance all happening
16:30at the same time in New York City. Was it an easy process, that easy to be part of that
16:35world,
16:35the rap world? I mean, the rap music?
16:38I mean, it felt easy. I think, well, I think this is the thing. I think there's a couple of
16:42things. One
16:42is you have to remember, like at the time, it's not like there's not millions of people trying to
16:49be rappers, right? Like you've, it's a small, there's only maybe like, I remember even like,
16:57as when rap music started to come out on vinyl records, it was like, there'd be maybe a couple of
17:03rap 12 inch vinyls released a week, if that, like, I don't even know it was a couple, you know,
17:09so it's like, it's a small, it's a relatively small scene. And I think, yeah, again, because we're
17:17just in those, those downtown New York clubs, that's kind of like how, it was like a friend
17:21introduced us to Rick Rubin, because we needed a DJ. And then we heard that our friend said,
17:29oh, he's, and Rick had all the DJ equipment, and he had like a 808 drum machine. And so we're
17:36like,
17:36okay, fine, we'll have him be the DJ. And he had a whole PA, he was like living at, he
17:42was going to
17:42the university, but he had, he was living in a dorm, dormitory room, but he had a whole PA system
17:49in, in the dorm room, which is pretty crazy, but he did. And we're like, okay, fine, he's the DJ.
17:57And then again, because we were just at these clubs downtown, that's how we met one night,
18:01then Rick was talking to this guy, Russell Simmons. And then we're like, oh, shit, you know, Russell
18:06manages Run DMC, that's like our favorite band on the planet, literally, like we knew we'd love nothing
18:11more than Run DMC. So then Rick's like, oh, these guys, I'm working with these guys, they're a band
18:16called Beastie Voice. So you know, Russell, then it was different, because he had like dollar signs
18:20in his eyes, like, oh, okay, great, you love Run DMC, you're white, I'm going to make a lot of
18:25money,
18:25you know, but we didn't realize, we were too young, and too naive to understand like any of, and all
18:33of that.
18:33But so that was an accident. There was an accident. But then at the same time, it's like,
18:38it's kind of interesting, right, that again, because we are in these clubs, when we were at,
18:45and younger than we were supposed to be. Then we that that's all what sort of like created this,
18:53you know, that's, that's what our music came out of.
18:56And on this album, we can find all this kind of background musically, I mean, all the things you
19:02were talking about the Rush Tetras or the post-punk Joy Division, there's a little bit of that in that
19:08album, right?
19:08Yeah, I hope so. I mean, I definitely like there, I think, I think like the ESG is always going
19:13to be
19:13a huge influence, like both ESG and like liquid liquid of like, in terms of,
19:21it's like dance music, but it sounds like it's from another planet. So there's always something
19:25I think, yeah, there that I try to put in the music a little bit.
19:29Merci beaucoup. Thank you very much. Merci.
19:32Merci.