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00:00:00The University of Cambridge invited Acharya Prashant for an exclusive dialogue
00:00:04to a distinguished forum where some of the most important questions concerning the future of the world are discussed.
00:00:11A tradition spanning more than 800 years.
00:00:14Cambridge, one of the world's most prestigious centres of learning and intellectual inquiry.
00:00:18It is a stage that has hosted influential voices such as Winston Churchill, Theodore Roosevelt and Stephen Hawking.
00:00:25So it's not about doing something more.
00:00:27That's why all these 30 COPs have failed.
00:01:15We are fortunate to have someone who not only understands India as a market, but also as an economy.
00:01:24And also as a civilisation and a wellspring of ideas for the world.
00:01:29Professor Jaydeep Prabhu is the Jawaharlal Nehru Professor of Indian Business and Enterprise at Cambridge George Business School and Director
00:01:36of the Centre for India and Global Business.
00:01:38His pioneering work on frugal innovation has received how the world thinks about creativity from the global south.
00:01:46Beyond his scholarship, Professor Prabhu has been the heart and soul of the Centre for India and Global Business and
00:01:52a steadfast mentor who has guided this dialogue and our society year after year.
00:01:57We owe him an enormous debt of gratitude.
00:02:00Please join me in welcoming Professor Jaydeep Prabhu.
00:02:20It is an extreme honour to introduce Acharya Prashant.
00:02:29Acharya Prashant is a philosopher and author of acclaimed bestsellers, including Truth Without Apology and Karma.
00:02:37Ranked in the top 20 of the Watkins list of the 100 most spiritually influential living people, he is followed
00:02:43online by over 100 million people across the globe, making him the most followed philosophical voice in the world.
00:02:50An alumnus of IIT Delhi and I.M. Ahmedabad, he has devoted himself to mass-based education of the self
00:02:57and his teaching program has now 150,000 regular enrolled students from all walks of life.
00:03:03He is a columnist for several newspapers and a recipient of prestigious awards like the Outstanding Contribution to National Development
00:03:11Award by the IIT Delhi Alumni Association and the PETA Most Influential Vegan of the Year Award.
00:03:17His insights on ecological responsibility and climate awareness have made him one of the most compelling philosophical voices on the
00:03:26planetary crisis of our time.
00:03:28Thank you, Acharya Prashant, for being here.
00:03:36The theme of our conversation is contemplative thought for a world in crisis.
00:03:41What do you think about these big crises we face? Climate change, inequality, what's at the root?
00:03:48The big crises that we face are a combination of the...
00:03:53How serious this effort is and you are very clear about that.
00:03:58Isn't this incompleteness also spurring us towards development, you know, the scientific development and also spiritual development?
00:04:09Kishava Siknishar, very beautifully it says,
00:04:12Ten katten bunji tha.
00:04:15Do consume, but with wisdom.
00:04:19To what we see with climate change, we probably don't have that much enough time.
00:04:23Time is needed when there is a task to be accomplished.
00:04:27The entire problem of climate crisis is that we have been doing too much of additional and unnecessary things.
00:04:34In my mind, there are three bridges that need to be built.
00:04:39So, I need to mention the three bridges.
00:04:41So, first bridge is...
00:04:45Professor Jadik, over to you.
00:04:47Thank you, Ashish and good afternoon everybody.
00:04:49It's such a pleasure for me to be here for so many reasons.
00:04:53But perhaps the most important one is I get to speak to Acharya Prashant.
00:04:57We have something in common.
00:04:59We both started our adult lives at IIT Delhi.
00:05:02I think this is a bit different from that.
00:05:05But that is special in its own way.
00:05:07Definitely.
00:05:08So, so many questions to ask you.
00:05:10I will take some time to ask my questions and then I will give the audience time to ask you
00:05:15questions.
00:05:16I know a lot of people here have lots of questions for you.
00:05:19So, you started at IITD.
00:05:21You then went to IIM Ahmedabad.
00:05:22And like many of us from that kind of background, you went into a corporate life.
00:05:29But then you left that.
00:05:31Why?
00:05:35Because what I was trying to find and seeking to address was not downstream of the tech and management education.
00:05:51I could sense it was somewhere upstream.
00:05:56Technology and management both are tools.
00:06:01Tools in the hands of the human being.
00:06:04And tools are used for a purpose.
00:06:09The purpose is inside.
00:06:10The tools are outside.
00:06:13I could see there were several, so many qualified and very, very talented people around me.
00:06:24In both these campuses.
00:06:26And also in my UPSC batch, that cadre.
00:06:31A lot of them were, in fact, I would humbly say more talented than me.
00:06:39So, when it came to having the tool or sharpening the tool or wielding the tool, there were those who
00:06:48could do it just as well as I could or better than me maybe.
00:06:53But what was tech or management to be used for?
00:06:57That was the question that was bothering me.
00:06:59What is it that the human being inherently wants?
00:07:04What is it that we are inwardly thirsty for?
00:07:07What?
00:07:07Because the flow of technology has been constant.
00:07:12And technologically and economically, we are more prosperous today than we have ever been in our history.
00:07:22And yet we fight.
00:07:24Yet we clamor.
00:07:26Yet there is so much of mental illness and all kinds of trouble.
00:07:31Inwardly we have remained what we were since the cave.
00:07:37Whereas outwardly there has been so much change.
00:07:40So, I wanted to invest myself in a direction that would probably matter a little more.
00:07:46And probably a direction that was not being addressed sufficiently by sufficient number of people.
00:07:53So, I didn't know it with even this much clarity.
00:07:57Though I won't claim I have a lot of clarity even today.
00:08:00But at that time it was all quite hazy.
00:08:02However, I tried to find my way through the haze, struggled, stumbled.
00:08:08I am still doing that.
00:08:10You are so humble.
00:08:11So, was it a moment's realization or was it a gradual process?
00:08:17It was all gradual and the process has continued till date.
00:08:21So, it was a series of questions followed by experiments, followed by observations, followed by insights,
00:08:29then fresh experiments.
00:08:32One would come to crossings.
00:08:35There would be just so many ways radiating out from there.
00:08:39One would proceed in a direction, figure out it doesn't work out.
00:08:43Something branches out elsewhere or just take a U-turn.
00:08:47All kinds of things were done.
00:08:48It's been a longish journey now.
00:08:50So, it's a process.
00:08:51It's a process.
00:08:52It's definitely a process.
00:08:54The theme of our conversation is contemplative thought for a world in crisis.
00:08:59Yes.
00:09:00What do you think about these big crises we face?
00:09:03Climate change, inequality.
00:09:05What's at the root?
00:09:07The big crises that we face are a combination of the little one we are on the inside
00:09:16and the big power we are now wielding on the outside.
00:09:21Take these two, multiply them, let them compound on each other over decades and centuries.
00:09:27And what you have is a big crisis.
00:09:30Inwardly, we have remained small.
00:09:33Inwardly, we are still very primitive, very much the man from that cave I referred to.
00:09:39Inwardly, we are that.
00:09:40And outwardly, we have big power, huge power.
00:09:43We are commanding not just this planet.
00:09:46Soon, we will be commanding our satellite and maybe the other planets as well.
00:09:51Very prosperous, very knowledgeable, very connected, very coordinated.
00:09:59We have all that and all that is really big.
00:10:02Especially when you consider that the fact that the rivers haven't changed in their power.
00:10:09Or the other species haven't developed so much cognitively or economically.
00:10:14So, mankind is tremendously powerful today.
00:10:17And as small inside as he or she was long back.
00:10:23These two, the dangerous combo.
00:10:25So, how do we make that inner weak self stronger to cope with?
00:10:33Such a pertinent and beautiful question.
00:10:36You see, first of all, I am not denying the importance of external progress.
00:10:43Right?
00:10:44I understand tech is important.
00:10:46Management is important.
00:10:47Policy is important.
00:10:49I come from that background.
00:10:50I know what science has given us.
00:10:53And I deeply, deeply respect that.
00:10:56What I am saying is what we are doing on the outside is necessary but not sufficient.
00:11:03Obviously, we need what is happening there.
00:11:07The problem lies upstream of the point we are addressing.
00:11:12The problem lies inside.
00:11:16If the human being does not know his emotions, his motivations, does not know the source of
00:11:24his desires, then he will be using all possible tools just to feed the inner hunger more and
00:11:33more.
00:11:34And this inner hunger is insatiable.
00:11:37The entire planet can be exploited and depleted and yet we will remain inwardly hungry.
00:11:43So, along with what we are already doing on the outside, all that is fine.
00:11:48All that is fine.
00:11:50Along with what we are already doing on the outside, we need mass-based education of the
00:11:55self.
00:11:57The student, which is the kid starting from four or five years of age to the elderly one,
00:12:07aged 90 or even 100, we all must learn to be students of the self.
00:12:13And that is one thing that has been thoroughly missing in our upbringing, in our schools, colleges
00:12:20and universities.
00:12:21We are taught about everything except the one that we are.
00:12:26So, what happens then is that all that we are taught and empowered with becomes just a tool,
00:12:35rather a weapon to fulfill this internal want that we never have understood in the first
00:12:44place.
00:12:47We address the issue of having.
00:12:49How can I have that?
00:12:50How can I have that?
00:12:51How can I have that?
00:12:52We don't address the issue of wanting.
00:12:57And that want is not a technical quantity.
00:13:02That want is a qualitative presence within that goes unexamined.
00:13:08No CAT scan, no MRI would ever reveal the want that sits within and wants infinitely.
00:13:19And yet, because of the want of that one sitting within, that everything on this planet moves,
00:13:26everything made by man.
00:13:27Is there anything that man has made and is not aimed at fulfilling desires?
00:13:35No, no, no, no.
00:13:36I am not denigrating desire.
00:13:38What I am asking is, if it is my desire and I am to invest my one single precious life
00:13:45in chasing that desire, must I know where that desire springs from?
00:13:51Whether it is my own desire at all?
00:13:54Whether I am my own at all?
00:13:57Whether this thing called the self is mine at all?
00:14:02What is it that exists?
00:14:04What is it that we call as the conscious human being?
00:14:06So, these are the questions.
00:14:08I am not saying they have never been addressed.
00:14:10They have been.
00:14:11But what we need is a situation where they are being addressed in every classroom,
00:14:17every household, every conversation.
00:14:19That is the most important conversation this planet needs to have.
00:14:24And I know that, as you said, you believe that we need mass-based educational self.
00:14:29Yes.
00:14:29I know that you have done that and you are doing that.
00:14:32Yes.
00:14:32Tell us a bit about that.
00:14:34How is that happening?
00:14:35What are you doing there?
00:14:37So, you see, because the regular, formal, official system does not address that education
00:14:43of the self sufficiently.
00:14:45So, what we are doing is in the form of an addition.
00:14:52So, it is mostly a night school.
00:14:55It is an online night school.
00:14:57So, we have regular sessions, regular to the extent of being 30 days a month.
00:15:05Even this day, before coming here, I was finalizing the examination for tonight.
00:15:10And given the five hour difference, right now, the students in India would be taking that
00:15:17examination, even as we speak here.
00:15:19So, every day at 9pm, we meet online.
00:15:24Some of them assemble physically as well, but the number is not much.
00:15:28200 or 500 or maximum 2,000 can meet me in an auditorium.
00:15:33The others, all the number that we quoted, 1 lakh plus, they all meet me online.
00:15:38We talk about life in context of philosophical works.
00:15:46Philosophical works from the East, all Indian streams.
00:15:53So, there are the Upanishads we are addressing, the Bhagavad Gita, then the works of the saints.
00:16:01So, the devotional side.
00:16:03And then we are studying Acharya Nagarjuna, Madhyamak Buddhism, Shunita Saptati.
00:16:11And then again from the East, Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching.
00:16:14And then also works from the West.
00:16:17So, for example, the existential stories, the plays, the works.
00:16:22Most students find that quite interesting.
00:16:24But all that is the foundation on which we try to understand the building of life.
00:16:33All that is the context in which we try to understand ourselves.
00:16:38So, who am I?
00:16:39So, it's not the works that we are interested in, primarily.
00:16:45The works, in fact, are meant to show us the mirror.
00:16:48The works are meant to bring us back to ourselves.
00:16:51So, if you ask me, are they students of Vedanta or Sankhya or Buddhism?
00:17:00Well, yes, yes.
00:17:01But a more accurate answer would be they are students of the self.
00:17:06So, mass-based education of the self.
00:17:09They are studying themselves through works of philosophy and wisdom and the spiritual scriptures.
00:17:17But the idea is to see what I am doing.
00:17:19Because if I do not see quite clearly what I am doing, I will be doing more and more and
00:17:24more and the planet can afford that no more.
00:17:28So, I am really struck by how serious this effort is and you are very clear about that.
00:17:35I remember you told me last night that you had taught at IITD but they were auditing the class and
00:17:41that would not do for you.
00:17:42Tell us about that.
00:17:44It is like an experimental science that people are learning and practicing together in a group very rigorously with exams.
00:17:51Just tell us a bit about why.
00:17:52So, the way it proceeds is, so first of all we will take up a verse or a sutra and
00:18:00then we will get into the exegesis.
00:18:06We will try to understand what is being said, how it was said then and what it means today and
00:18:13that would take around an hour and a half.
00:18:15And after that comes the more lively part which is the open interaction, the Q&A.
00:18:23So, the participants, the students come up with their open-ended questions, open-ended questions.
00:18:29The questions can come from anywhere in life.
00:18:31The condition is, the thing must be important enough for you, which means we don't decide what the direction of
00:18:42the question should be.
00:18:44But you must decide that the question must carry depth and let it come.
00:18:49It comes from the direction of economics, relationships, politics, religion, everything that matters to the common man and everything that
00:18:58we call as life.
00:18:59Then those questions come, we answer those questions, we also try to relate those questions to the text at hand.
00:19:06And once that is done, then begins the reflections part.
00:19:10So, the students come over and just say whatever they have to.
00:19:15Again, the only condition is let it be authentic.
00:19:17Let it be authentic.
00:19:18We don't mind if you say something very unexpected, but we do mind if the thing is superficial, not deep
00:19:27enough, not genuine enough.
00:19:29But that rarely happens.
00:19:31The students now know that this is the place where you can be truly yourself.
00:19:35So, you can let go of your inhibitions and just peek your heart out.
00:19:40And that continues for another hour or two.
00:19:44And then we close because by that time, it's already 2am.
00:19:49If we have started at 10pm by that.
00:19:51And before I start, even before I arrive, people sing.
00:19:57They sing a lot.
00:19:59Because the Wisdom Corpus is so full of beautiful songs.
00:20:05And then we choose a song and it is sung collectively, led by obviously those who know how to sing,
00:20:14the others join in.
00:20:16So, altogether, one session lasts upward of 4 hours.
00:20:21And this thing happens 30 days a week.
00:20:23Not that I am present there 30 days a week.
00:20:26I am present there 14 or 15 days.
00:20:28The remaining days, they have examinations.
00:20:31I love that.
00:20:32I love that.
00:20:32As an academic, I like the fact that you are testing them on what they have.
00:20:35Yes, yes.
00:20:36And the examinations, sir, give me a minute, please.
00:20:38The examinations are very rigorous.
00:20:40Because they are MCQs where out of the five, rather six options, option F is what we go till.
00:20:49Out of all the six options, you could have one correct option or two correct options or six correct options.
00:20:55And sometimes no correct options at all.
00:20:58You lose marks not only on ticking a wrong option, but also on not ticking a right option.
00:21:06So, each single question is designed to be like life.
00:21:11You know, so many options and you have to make the right choice or choices.
00:21:16And life penalizes you, not only for choosing what is not right for you, but also for not choosing what
00:21:25is right for you.
00:21:25So, that's what the questions are meant to simulate.
00:21:29Our students enjoy that.
00:21:30A lot of them get marks in negative.
00:21:34The average percentage is sometimes minus 10% or something.
00:21:38But we all love that.
00:21:39Because of.
00:21:40Yes.
00:21:40I love setting the question paper.
00:21:42They love attending to the questions.
00:21:43And it's a beautiful journey for all of us.
00:21:46So, that's also interesting that this is very serious.
00:21:48It's rigorous, but you also have fun.
00:21:50You have a lot of fun for that.
00:21:51Yes, yes, yes.
00:21:51And it's also using tech.
00:21:53I saw the app.
00:21:54Very impressive that one of your team had developed.
00:21:56He showed it to me last night.
00:21:58Yes.
00:21:58I could ask you lots of questions.
00:22:00I have several more.
00:22:01But I think it's only fair that lots of people here want to ask you questions.
00:22:05So, I'd like to open it up to the audience.
00:22:07Please raise your hand and we will bring a mic to you.
00:22:12Thank you so much.
00:22:13It's very impressive what you're saying.
00:22:15My question was, you're bringing something to a culture where talking about self, individual,
00:22:23isn't encouraged.
00:22:25And I'm just wondering that because, you know, my journey growing up in India, then coming
00:22:31to, you know, Europe and understanding that you need to say what you want and not what
00:22:38others want.
00:22:39So, how's that?
00:22:40Because it's beautiful what you're saying, discovery of self.
00:22:43But how's it growing up in a very group orientated?
00:22:48You see ma'am, the self is the one center that cannot be hidden.
00:22:55So, different cultures have different ways of dealing with the self, or I would rather
00:23:04say coping with the self.
00:23:06Because the self is something that exhibits itself in all that you are, in every word that
00:23:14you utter, in every action, in every decision made, everywhere, it is the center that is
00:23:24doing the heavy lifting.
00:23:27So, it is anyway being expressed.
00:23:29Since it is anyway being expressed, it is life.
00:23:34The liver of the life is the self, the center that says I am.
00:23:40The ego self, you know, the I am-ness.
00:23:44So, that is anyway everything.
00:23:47We just encourage honest articulation.
00:23:52The expression is anyway being made.
00:23:56Please, please understand.
00:23:57You spoke something that was a self-talking.
00:24:00This mic is an equipment in the hands of the self.
00:24:05The fact that we are present here, each one of us, is a choice made by the self.
00:24:11The garments we are wearing, again is a choice made by the self and reflects something about
00:24:17the self.
00:24:18So, the self is everywhere.
00:24:20This building is the self.
00:24:22It is an expression of who we are.
00:24:24The roads, the model of education that we have.
00:24:28This culture that sometimes wants the self to be expressed and sometimes seeks to suppress
00:24:36it.
00:24:36This culture itself is a creation of the self.
00:24:41So, the self cannot be repressed.
00:24:45However, the self can try to look not into the mirror.
00:24:52The self is everywhere.
00:24:54But one characteristic of the self is, it is outward looking, just as these eyes cannot
00:25:00look at themselves and the ears cannot hear their own sounds.
00:25:04But they gather everything that comes to them from here and there.
00:25:07Similarly, the self is everywhere.
00:25:09But the self has a choice in whether it wants to look at itself.
00:25:14What we are doing in our sessions, in our education program, is providing a mirror to
00:25:20the self.
00:25:21Providing a mirror to the self.
00:25:22You are looking at everything.
00:25:24And what you are looking at is your own creation.
00:25:27Since you are so fond of looking at yourself all around you, why don't you rather look at
00:25:34yourself directly?
00:25:36So, the system of education that we are trying to come up with is just a mirror.
00:25:40It's just a mirror.
00:25:41It's nothing additional.
00:25:42And it's a thing of honesty, no?
00:25:44To just look at your own face in the mirror and be ready to face the reality.
00:25:49And if you find something is there in the form of a spoil, just wipe it clean.
00:25:54Simple.
00:25:55That's it.
00:25:57Wonderful.
00:25:58We have another question from you.
00:26:02Can you hear me?
00:26:04Akshay Sawant from India.
00:26:06I have benefited from the yarn that you have given over the last three years.
00:26:13Thank you Achharji.
00:26:14Most welcome.
00:26:15My question is, you have talked about incompleteness a lot.
00:26:19And, you know, right from the time that we are born, we experienced this incompleteness.
00:26:25And effectively, that is the small eye inside us.
00:26:29I am from an engineering background like yourself.
00:26:33So, my context of the question is, isn't this incompleteness also spurring us towards the
00:26:41development, you know, the scientific development and also spiritual development?
00:26:46Because we always feel that emptiness and we want to get more and more for everything.
00:26:53But spiritually also, we know that there is something missing.
00:26:55And that's what spurs us towards that knowledge.
00:27:00Yes.
00:27:01So, if you could just talk a little.
00:27:02You are very right.
00:27:03But these are two very different directions.
00:27:05Very, very different directions.
00:27:07Let me quote a statistic.
00:27:11The top 1%, the wealthiest population of the world is responsible for 16% of carbon emissions.
00:27:20We know they exhaust their carbon quota in the first 10 days of the year.
00:27:24We also know that when it comes to the top 10 wealthiest population of the world, they are
00:27:30responsible for 50% of the emissions.
00:27:33Please tell me, what does money do when you talk of prosperity, when you talk of external achievement?
00:27:42Does it make you satisfied or does it make you hungrier?
00:27:48With money, do you feel satisfied that you have money or do you embark on a reckless journey of even
00:27:57more consumption?
00:28:00That incompleteness that you are talking of is real.
00:28:03It is empirical.
00:28:04We experience it in the form of loneliness, in the form of restlessness, in the form of a vague void
00:28:12that riles us from within.
00:28:14Each of one does that, right?
00:28:16We do not know what is it that bites us from within.
00:28:18But there is something.
00:28:20There is something.
00:28:21We do not feel at ease when we are lonely.
00:28:24We do not feel at ease when we are in a crowd.
00:28:27When we are defeated, we do not like it.
00:28:30And when we are victorious, we are not very secure about it.
00:28:33So that is there.
00:28:35But that void, is it successfully filled by external accomplishment?
00:28:42That is the question.
00:28:43That is the question.
00:28:44And empirical evidence deeply denies that.
00:28:48You see, you make a people prosperous.
00:28:53And it is not that they say, now that we are prosperous, we need to progress in another dimension.
00:28:58You make a people prosperous, they want to be even more prosperous.
00:29:02They want to be even more.
00:29:03You offer consumption to a person.
00:29:06He will not say, I have had enough of it.
00:29:08He will say, now that I have this much, can I have 3x more?
00:29:14So there is enough evidence to suggest that the external root does not work.
00:29:20And this is not coming from a moral or religious point.
00:29:24This is coming from data-based evidence.
00:29:28This is the nature of the self.
00:29:31External things you are putting into it, they don't belong to the same dimension.
00:29:35We do not understand the hunger.
00:29:37And because we do not understand the hunger, but experience the hunger.
00:29:41So we are feeding all kinds of things to the hunger.
00:29:45Assuming that something or the other will work out.
00:29:49Something or the other will satiate me.
00:29:52The result is that the planet stands deforested, depleted.
00:29:58But the hunger is nowhere close to being addressed.
00:30:02Now the other side, you said we proceed on material achievement.
00:30:08And it is that incompletionment that also spurs us towards spiritual advancement.
00:30:12But these are two very different directions.
00:30:14The spiritual dimension, real spirituality, not the traditional rule-bound kind.
00:30:21Real spirituality is simply about being honest with yourself.
00:30:26Who am I?
00:30:27What do I really want?
00:30:28What is it that I present to myself and the world?
00:30:32And what is it that I am actually on the inside?
00:30:36And then asking oneself the question, am I benefiting inwardly by being what I have chosen to be?
00:30:44It is a commonsensical question.
00:30:47It is in fact a question involving the deepest kind of self-interest.
00:30:53We are not talking selflessness here.
00:30:56We are talking real self-interest here.
00:30:59Am I really benefiting by choosing to be what I have become internally?
00:31:06And don't I have a choice?
00:31:08Do I remain?
00:31:09Do I need to compulsively remain this way?
00:31:11Must I?
00:31:12So that's the question.
00:31:13And that is the spiritual direction.
00:31:15That is not the same as the external direction.
00:31:18These two are not even complementary.
00:31:21Again, in no way am I advocating renunciation here.
00:31:26Or any kind of minimalism.
00:31:28No.
00:31:29That's not the point.
00:31:31The Ishavasi Upanishad, very beautifully it says,
00:31:34Ten-tyak-ten-bhunji-tha.
00:31:37Do consume, but with wisdom.
00:31:42The literal meaning would be consume after renunciation.
00:31:48Once you have renounced inner ignorance, now consume.
00:31:53Because now it's no more the blindness consuming.
00:31:58Now it's nature dealing with nature.
00:32:01And you cannot even properly call it consumption.
00:32:04It's just harmony.
00:32:06A wave meets another wave.
00:32:08The smaller wave can get assimilated in the bigger wave.
00:32:11That would not be rightly called as consumption.
00:32:14But even if you call it consumption, that kind of consumption is very much justified.
00:32:18Justified.
00:32:19But please first of all set aside your ignorance.
00:32:22Then it's beautiful.
00:32:23So what in a way you are saying, we have put the cart before the horse.
00:32:27Yes.
00:32:27We should have been spending much more time in this.
00:32:31Yes.
00:32:31And that would have led to a more harmonious relationship.
00:32:35Science, technology.
00:32:36Very right.
00:32:36Very right.
00:32:37So it's not that technology is a problem.
00:32:42The builder of the technology and the user of the technology do not know what to build
00:32:48and what to use it for.
00:32:50Technology is wonderful.
00:32:52We are in some ways a gifted species.
00:32:55There is this prakritik natural instrument here.
00:32:59We have a specialized brain.
00:33:02Obviously science and technology must progress.
00:33:04There is beauty in that.
00:33:06But do we know what kind of technologies we need and where to put them?
00:33:12What to do with them?
00:33:13So that's the question.
00:33:15Wonderful.
00:33:18Firstly, thank you.
00:33:19I have been a big advocate for women.
00:33:21Welcome.
00:33:22And voicing a lot of problems that we don't get a voice for a lot of times.
00:33:28Thank you for that.
00:33:30And my one very small question is, at what age should we start?
00:33:35And I resonated with your thought process that we are not starting and missing a big chunk
00:33:39of education in people, which should have been given and imparted.
00:33:44And it used to be done a long time ago, but not anymore.
00:33:47What age should it start?
00:33:49And what can be done to kind of do the mass education in students?
00:33:56Because the world is going crazy.
00:33:58So if we start, if we keep doing this and rather than doing it the graduation or post-graduation,
00:34:04by the time, but my ideas are already formed and accustomed to the society around me.
00:34:09It's best to start at a much younger age.
00:34:11So what is your thoughts on that?
00:34:13Beautiful question.
00:34:14And to all those who are in touch with kids here, parents, guardians, teachers, elder siblings,
00:34:25anybody, here is the hint.
00:34:28If the kid can ask, what is this?
00:34:37You must understand the kid can now also ask, what is this?
00:34:44If you find your kid now curious enough and intelligent enough to ask, Mama, what is this?
00:34:55That indicates that the kid now has enough cognitive development to also ask, Mama, who am I?
00:35:06Mama, who am I?
00:35:07But the finger will have to be shown the way.
00:35:13The tendency of the ego is to avoid itself and as a compensation, look at everything around,
00:35:23to keep itself busy, to keep feeling purposeful, to keep feeling sensible and occupied.
00:35:31So the kid starts demonstrating that very early.
00:35:34What is this?
00:35:35And he picks this up and puts it in her mouth.
00:35:38And the kid is now getting curious about the world.
00:35:43The same sense that can get curious about the world can also get curious about oneself.
00:35:50So now is the time to guide the finger.
00:35:53Now is the time to hold the mirror to the kid and say, hey, you have looked enough at all
00:35:58this and all this is surely wonderful.
00:36:00But won't you want to look at the looker?
00:36:02Won't you want to know the knower?
00:36:05There is so much beauty in that butterfly and I understand the butterfly is charming.
00:36:12But kid, you too are so charming.
00:36:14Let's look at you now.
00:36:16So that's the time.
00:36:20So thank you, Acharya Ji.
00:36:23So it's great to see so many people from so many different places who have traveled to listen to you.
00:36:29So while growing up in India, so I've been repeatedly told the most difficult thing is to conquer your inner
00:36:35self.
00:36:36And I never understood the significance of it.
00:36:39And now that I've done other things, I know you increasingly realize the importance of it.
00:36:44So the more you focus on your inner self, the more you tend to detach yourself from the capitalistic point
00:36:50of view in the society and the things that you want to build yourself.
00:36:54Or the more you focus on the outer self, you tend to focus less and less on the inner self.
00:37:00And it even mellows you in some ways if you focus more on yourself.
00:37:04So what are your thoughts on that?
00:37:06Is that a compromise that needs to be handled between both managing inner self and outer accomplishments?
00:37:12Or can we maximize both?
00:37:14Or how should we manage that?
00:37:16Great question.
00:37:18Please see, capital 2 is an object to the self.
00:37:25The self is the one subject of all objects in the universe.
00:37:31Capital is an object.
00:37:33Lack of capital is also an object.
00:37:36And the ego would want to entertain itself with all these objects so that it does not have to look
00:37:45at itself.
00:37:48And when you look at an object, one way of engaging is the object is great.
00:37:55I want to chase it.
00:37:57The other mode of engagement is the object is evil.
00:38:00Let's avoid it.
00:38:01Let's drop it.
00:38:03Let's shout against it.
00:38:04Capital is just capital.
00:38:07Capital is an object.
00:38:09Capital is a resource.
00:38:11Use it wisely.
00:38:12Use it wisely and life would be beautiful.
00:38:15Use it unwisely.
00:38:18And you have destroyed yourself.
00:38:20There is nothing glamorous or spectacular or spiritual or sacred about poverty.
00:38:29These are not opposites.
00:38:32And that's the model that has done the entire field of wisdom a lot of harm.
00:38:39When we pick these two against each other, when we say, oh, spirituality and capital do not go together.
00:38:46No, not true, not true.
00:38:48Capital, please remember, is just another object.
00:38:52Just another resource.
00:38:53Just like a car.
00:38:55You must know whether you need a car and if you do, how many cars you need.
00:39:00And if you do need a car, what place to drive it to?
00:39:07That's what you need to do.
00:39:08And if you drive the car wrongly or own an unreasonable number of them, or you go and bump your
00:39:16car into a divider, that's none of the car's fault.
00:39:20But if you find a driver blaming the car for his rash driving, chances are he wants to preserve his
00:39:29rashness.
00:39:30He wants to remain the rash driver that he is and therefore he is instead blaming the car.
00:39:36There is nothing per se wrong with capital.
00:39:40There is nothing wrong with anything in this universe.
00:39:44Nothing in the universe can be labeled as good or bad, right or wrong, sacred or profane.
00:39:53All these are needless labels invented by the ego just for self-preservation.
00:39:58So drop these labels, focus on the one thing.
00:40:02Who am I?
00:40:03What have I become?
00:40:05That which I call as myself, how much of it is real?
00:40:08How much of it is just pure conditioning?
00:40:11Why am I so afraid?
00:40:13And why am I trying to give lovely colors to my fear?
00:40:18Why do I want to be respected?
00:40:22What is it that I want in lieu of respect or being respectable?
00:40:26So these are the real questions.
00:40:29Instead a lot of field of spirituality and religion that has come to be about doing this thing,
00:40:38dropping that thing.
00:40:40Or drop money, pick that up, travel to that place, live this way, avoid thinking that way.
00:40:47These are great thoughts to have.
00:40:49That's the ideology you should avoid.
00:40:52All these are objects, please remember.
00:40:55Thoughts are to a thinker.
00:40:57Deeds are to a doer.
00:41:01Sights are to a seer.
00:41:04Focus on the one at the center of it.
00:41:07Not on the action, not on the deed, not on the choice.
00:41:10Focus on the chooser.
00:41:14Hello, Acharji.
00:41:15It's an honor to be with you today.
00:41:17I have been with Gita Samagam for two years and I stay in Netherlands.
00:41:22My question is, what you are doing is incredible, but what we see with climate change and how
00:41:29it has been affected people across the world is humongous.
00:41:34We probably don't have that much enough time to kind of bring out the revolution which you are trying to
00:41:39bring out.
00:41:39So what is the way forward?
00:41:41The way forward is exactly what we have been discussing so far.
00:41:45Mass-based education of the self.
00:41:46Also please remember, you need time if you have distance to cover.
00:41:55You don't need time to see where you are already standing.
00:42:00So it's not that we are short of time.
00:42:03Please understand.
00:42:04Time is needed when there is a task to be accomplished.
00:42:08When something additional needs to be done, then you need time.
00:42:12The entire problem of climate crisis is that we have been doing too much of additional and unnecessary things.
00:42:20So it's not about doing something more.
00:42:23That's why all these 30 COPs have failed.
00:42:26That's why the PPM stands today worse than where it stood 30 years back.
00:42:33Because we think the solution lies in doing something more.
00:42:38Oh, the climate crisis has been imposed on us by aliens.
00:42:42Now let's do something to fight it.
00:42:44No sir, the climate crisis is something of your own doing.
00:42:47The doing needs to stop and stopping doesn't take time.
00:42:51Reaching takes time.
00:42:52Acceleration takes time.
00:42:54How much time does it take to stop right where you are?
00:42:59To avoid the climate catastrophe, additional steps are not needed.
00:43:04What is needed is that we just stop doing what we have been doing.
00:43:08And please tell me, does it really take a great deal of time to just stop?
00:43:12Just stop?
00:43:13Now what it rather takes is intent.
00:43:16And also please remember, if you think in terms of doing more, to stop the climate crisis.
00:43:23Doing requires energy.
00:43:25And energy itself is emissions.
00:43:27So in the name of stopping emissions, we say we need to do more.
00:43:32And in doing more, we emit more.
00:43:35So all that is not very sensible.
00:43:40First of all, I think you are doing very important work.
00:43:44And I'm currently focusing on leadership coaching.
00:43:48So it's kind of going to some of the essence that you are trying to accomplish like broad educational systemic
00:43:59level.
00:44:00But targeting at these like critical nodes of people who are in the positions of power and highest pressure on
00:44:11decision making,
00:44:12who are making the most important decisions, influencing the systems kind of from the top.
00:44:17If you are going to kind of from the grass roots, right, going the opposite direction, we should meet somewhere
00:44:26in center, I guess, hopefully make it work together.
00:44:30And in my mind, there are three bridges that need to be built.
00:44:37So I need to mention the three bridges.
00:44:39So first bridge is between masculine and feminine way of experiencing the reality.
00:44:46And contributing to the world, right, or being in the world.
00:44:50Second one is between the Western and Eastern way of looking in the world and experiencing it.
00:44:57And the third one is between the old political economy, which was based on scarcity and power,
00:45:03and the new economy, the digital economy and AI native world where more abundance is possible.
00:45:11And maybe the question then is just how in your mind we can start building these bridges in a more
00:45:19sound way than we are currently doing.
00:45:22It's a very broad based question.
00:45:25Bridging the masculine with the feminine, the old with the new, the occidental with the oriental.
00:45:34Let me reply with a simple question.
00:45:38Who is it that will cross the bridge?
00:45:43And in crossing over, does this one really intend to change?
00:45:51I can very well remain the same person this side of the bridge as I would be when I cross
00:45:59over.
00:46:00So is the intention really there?
00:46:02And without that intention, nothing works, nothing at all.
00:46:07These bridges might all be very useful, but much more important is the fact of inner honesty.
00:46:13Do I really intend to change?
00:46:15Otherwise I can apply all kinds of intellectual, technological and spiritual practices and put in jargon,
00:46:24and still I successfully remain who I have been.
00:46:29Please see, we know of the Jevons paradox, right?
00:46:32We have been thinking that we can contain, for example, emissions, pollutions and all kinds of dirty things
00:46:41through tech and policy means.
00:46:45And tech is one of the things that you mentioned in your question.
00:46:48Does tech succeed?
00:46:51More than 150 years back, Jevons, what did he figure out that as in the UK,
00:46:58the steam engines became more efficient, the consumption of coal only multiplied.
00:47:05The same thing we have seen with respect to computers, the computers, the processing speed is much better today.
00:47:12But the electricity consumption that goes into computing today is manifold compared to the 1980s or 1990s.
00:47:20AI, digital stuff, surveillance, all that is consuming many times more electricity,
00:47:26even as processing power has multiplied so many times.
00:47:30Same things we see with LED bulbs.
00:47:32They consume only a fraction of power.
00:47:35But now buildings are being lit up as entertainment.
00:47:39So the consumption of electricity has increased.
00:47:41Same things applies to automobiles.
00:47:44Today's automobile is much more fuel efficient.
00:47:46But efficiency only makes the input less pricey and that increases the demand.
00:47:53Because the demanding one is the self sitting here.
00:47:57So the self has to be known.
00:47:58Same thing applies even to EVs, you see.
00:48:01EVs.
00:48:02They are more efficient.
00:48:03Yes, they are.
00:48:04But then what about the number of vehicles that are multiplying?
00:48:08And that will require roads and that will require cobalt, lithium, nickel to be mined up.
00:48:14And that will require forests to be cleared up.
00:48:16And that will also facilitate urban sprawl.
00:48:20So, methods are not going to work.
00:48:23Policies too are not going to work.
00:48:26Because the one who will set the policy in the morning is exactly the one who will work his way
00:48:33around the policy in the evening.
00:48:35The policy setter and the consumer are the same entity.
00:48:38The leader has been voted to power by not the voter but the consumer.
00:48:43Because the voter is the consumer.
00:48:46So the voter is never going to put a leader into power who makes policies that suppress consumption.
00:48:52Or maybe the policies will be there.
00:48:53But workarounds would be invented.
00:48:57Intent is the only way and that requires, I repeat, the nth time, mass based education of the self.
00:49:05That does not mean in no way that the old ways, the old methods of meditation or realization are worthless.
00:49:12That also does not mean that the new methods of policy making and technology are worthless.
00:49:17None of that is worthless.
00:49:19All that is very, very, very necessary.
00:49:21The Upanishads talk of Vidya and Avidya.
00:49:24Worldly knowledge and internal realization together.
00:49:28These two have to move together.
00:49:30The balance is missing.
00:49:32The attention is missing.
00:49:33We have done too much on that side and too little on this side.
00:49:37That's what the whole thing is about.
00:49:39I think that's a wonderful place to thank Atayaji.
00:49:42Thank you so much.
00:49:51Thank you for helping us get the balance right.
00:49:53Both in this dialogue but also generally.
00:49:57It was a breezy discussion.
00:49:58Thank you so much.
00:49:59Thank you so much.
00:49:59Thank you so much for it.
00:50:02Thank you, Professor Prabhu.
00:50:03Thank you for making this a truly memorable experience for all of us here.
00:50:08And Acharya Ji, thank you.
00:50:10Truly thank you.
00:50:12For most of us in this room, the last hour, this was not just a session.
00:50:16It was a pause.
00:50:17A rare moment to step back from the noise and ask the deeper questions we have been avoiding.
00:50:23Your clarity, your honesty and your refusal to soften what needs to be said are exactly what this generation needs
00:50:30to hear.
00:50:30And this generation needs to strike the balance between Vidya and Avidya as you correctly mentioned.
00:50:36We are deeply grateful for your time, your presence and the spirit with which you spoke today.
00:50:41Thank you, Acharya Ji.
00:50:45And now I would suggest Mr. Sirius Bird, the founder of Global Education Lab and our mentor.
00:50:51And Mr. Akhil Gupta from ICSA Bank UK to come forward and felicitate Professor Prabhu and Acharya Ji.
00:51:10Thank you, Acharya Ji.
00:51:12Thank you, Acharya Ji.
00:54:23You see, there is the Nobel Prize for Science, for Peace.
00:54:30Science is for the human being and it is the human being that craves for peace.
00:54:36So, ultimately, all of them have been working for the human being, all the Nobel laureates,
00:54:43all the great scientists, thinkers, explorers, philosophers, adventurers.
00:54:48That's what they have been seeking, the welfare of the human being.
00:54:52My question is, how do you distinguish faith and when do you know it becomes an expectation?
00:54:58Shraddha says, whatever happens is fine.
00:55:01Nishkamkam says, I am acting without caring for what happens.
00:55:05These two are much the same statement.
00:55:07We can see today that the welfare of the human being will be through a path that goes this
00:55:14side, inside.
00:55:15The route is inward.
00:55:18That's the direction to take.
00:55:20So, it's much in the same vein.
00:55:23One is seeking human welfare through advancements in medicine, discovering the electron or the
00:55:29neutron or the structure of the DNA.
00:55:32I am standing here at Cambridge.
00:55:33So, that's all that has happened here.
00:55:35And then, for the same purpose, towards the same goal, we now see that we have to look more keenly
00:55:44at ourselves.
00:55:45And if we do not know who the chooser is, then the choices will all be not very sensible.
00:55:52If we do not know who the inventor is, then the inventions can turn destructive.
00:55:58So, the spotlight has to be put back on the self because that's the place from where it all begins.
00:56:05And that's the place for which all of it happens.
00:56:09That's the beginning and the end.
00:56:11So, it's much in the same direction.
00:56:13I totally agree with you.
00:56:15How does one save somebody?
00:56:16To save him, there is a limit to my effort.
00:56:19The more I start seeing that saving him is saving myself, the barriers to action start dropping.
00:56:27Cambridge has been an incubator of science and technology and has produced immoralable, novel urates.
00:56:34In contest of the current heat waves in India, do you think technology holds the solution?
00:56:39Not really.
00:56:41You see, technology is for the sake of efficiency, right?
00:56:46How can I do more of what I want by putting in less of what I have to do, right?
00:56:55Technology is about improving the output by input ratio, right?
00:57:00And we are relating all that to the heat wave we are experiencing in India, even in London.
00:57:05London was having a particularly unusual heat wave three days back.
00:57:09The fire that is producing that carbon is within the human being.
00:57:14Know who you are.
00:57:15Once you know who you are, you will know what is truly right for you.
00:57:17And having known what is truly right for you, immerse into it without bothering about what happens next.
00:57:24Without detecting the source of the fire.
00:57:26The fire is here in the human ego, in the unexamined human centre.
00:57:32And irrespective of what tech or policy measures you have, the fire will consume each one of them if the
00:57:40fire itself is not addressed.
00:57:42And the right centre is boring.
00:57:44The right centre is deeper fun. It's called joy.
00:57:46What would you rather have fun or joy?
00:57:48Joy.
00:58:43Notice.shawright
00:58:46Visual Communication
00:58:46Production
00:59:17This is amazing. So basically this is called Corpus Christi clock. It was inaugurated by Sir Stephen Hawkins. And this
00:59:26is by the way 24 karat gold plated. But it has like physical meanings and philosophical meanings as well.
00:59:33You know how it would be interpreted, philosophically?
00:59:36Yeah, the Amiens would love to know for now.
00:59:38So what you see there as the wheels is what you could call as physical time or chronological time. And
00:59:48that bug would represent the ego.
00:59:51That bug would represent the ego. So that bug is what causes distortions in the chronological event.
00:59:59So what we find distorted here is psychological time. So when the ego meets the universe, it is never the
01:00:11universe that it rightly perceives. It perceives my universe. My universe. And my universe is never the real thing. My
01:00:21universe is always a projection of the ego.
01:00:33I am not mistaken. Electron, Neutron, Photon. All were first of all discovered.
01:00:39Yeah. You know, this discovery changed not just physics, but also language. Atom. Atom used to mean literally the indestructible
01:00:55and the indivisible. Once the electron came in, the atom was divided.
01:01:00Yeah.
01:01:22There we go.
01:01:35So that's James Clarke Maxwell, right?
01:01:38That's the portrait of James Clarke Maxwell.
01:01:40All from my friends.
01:01:43All from you, literally.
01:01:45Yeah, you're interested in physics.
01:01:47All of them like physicists, top notch.
01:01:49So J.J. Thompson, James Clarke Maxwell, Newton himself.
01:02:13So that's on top.
01:02:15That is Ren Library.
01:02:17That's where the text of Newton and Ramanujam are kept.
01:02:21Like the oldest possible text.
01:02:23So you said alchemy text.
01:02:25So all those texts are all like there.
01:02:27And of course, copy of Principia Mathematica is also there.
01:02:31But just below that, that corridor,
01:02:33that's where the speed of sound was discovered by Newton himself.
01:02:36So he first came up with the formula,
01:02:38but later on it was experimentally validated.
01:02:40I think there was an error of 15% as well,
01:02:42but that's where the validation happened.
01:02:47So you see like there are chairs and tables
01:02:50and people are literally studying before the exam.
01:02:53This is also where the experimental setup was set
01:02:56for measuring the speed of sound.
01:03:01So this is the Gourneville and Keyes.
01:03:05This is called Senate House.
01:03:06This is where all the ceremony of, let's say,
01:03:09giving a professorship, fellowship, PhD,
01:03:13and our degrees are also given here.
01:03:15So this is the Senate House, the old Senate House.
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