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¿Se está convirtiendo Bélgica en un narcoestado? Políticos debaten en The Ring
Bruselas y Amberes sufren más tiroteos por drogas y guerras de bandas entre traficantes. ¿Ha perdido Bélgica el control del problema? El alcalde Philippe Close y el opositor conservador Mathias Vanden Borre (N-VA) se enfrentan en esta edición.
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Bruselas y Amberes sufren más tiroteos por drogas y guerras de bandas entre traficantes. ¿Ha perdido Bélgica el control del problema? El alcalde Philippe Close y el opositor conservador Mathias Vanden Borre (N-VA) se enfrentan en esta edición.
MÁS INFORMACIÓN : http://es.euronews.com/2026/07/10/se-esta-convirtiendo-belgica-en-un-narcoestado-politicos-debaten-en-the-ring
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00:08Hola y bienvenidos a The Ring, Euronews' weekly debate show.
00:11Hoy, broadcasting from our studio in Brussels, I'm Stefan Grobe.
00:15Thank you for joining us.
00:17On The Ring, our debaters go face-to-face on some of the biggest issues of the day.
00:22Today, on this special edition from the European Capital,
00:25we want to talk about a big problem in Belgium, but not only there.
00:29Drugs, crime, and what to do about it.
00:33Luis Albertos has more.
00:37Belgium's drug problem is centered around one word.
00:41Antwerp.
00:44It's home to Europe's second biggest port,
00:47one of the continent's main entry points for drugs from Latin America.
00:52Last year, Belgian authorities seized 55 tons of cocaine here,
00:56but officials admit that much larger quantities likely get through,
01:00often in hidden shipments of bananas, frozen food, or timber.
01:05The problem has become a national security issue.
01:08Drug-related violence has spiked in Antwerp and Brussels,
01:12and gangs are even infiltrating parts of public administration
01:15through bribery and intimidation.
01:19Has Belgium evolved into a narco-state, as one senior Antwerp judge warned?
01:24Are the many measures, taken on a national and local level, having any effect?
01:31Well, a lot to unpack here for our contenders, and here they are.
01:38Philippe Claus, the mayor of the city of Brussels for nine years.
01:42This politician from the French-speaking Socialist Party
01:45takes a dual-track approach to drug-related problems,
01:48being firm on trafficking while addressing the social issues.
01:51He champions supervised drug consumption centers,
01:54saying these offer solutions to tackling the drug problem in Brussels.
01:57Taking tough and effective action against dealers alone is not enough.
02:02We must also continue to treat drug addiction as a genuine public health issue, he says.
02:08Matthias Vandenborde, a Brussels Member of Parliament for the Flemish National Party NVA.
02:13He's a former city councilor, primarily responsible for home affairs, including security.
02:18According to him, his love for Brussels is great,
02:21which is why solving issues like drug trafficking is so close to his heart.
02:24He believes breaking the business model of criminal organizations is essential in this fight.
02:30By focusing on tracing, freezing and confiscating criminally acquired assets,
02:34we make organized crime less lucrative and dismantle the financial structures, he says.
02:41So, let me welcome to the ring Philippe Claus and Matthias Vandenborde.
02:45Great to have you here, good to see you.
02:48Are you ready?
02:49Yes, ready.
02:50Perfect.
02:50So, certain Brussels neighborhoods have seen drug-related violence,
02:55including shootings in which bystanders have been injured.
02:59Who carries the greatest responsibility for this situation, Mr. Mayor?
03:03First of all, it's always the mayor and the public authority.
03:06We need to give peace in every neighborhood.
03:08But, first of all, to take the responsibilities for very important for a politician.
03:13And after, we need to find some solution and also to learn about the cause.
03:19Why so many people using drugs?
03:22Why there are so many traffics in the street?
03:24And it's true that in Brussels, we are regarding that not only in Brussels,
03:29but for all the Belgian territory.
03:31Right.
03:31Is Brussels still a safe city?
03:34Last year, there were, I think, almost 100 shootings,
03:38which makes Brussels one of the top three cities with the most gun violence in Europe.
03:43Marseille, Napoli, and then you have Brussels, which is very alarming, of course.
03:48And this gun violence is really increasing the last few years.
03:51And for me, I think there's still a lack of urgency in Brussels itself,
03:58from maybe the mayors, but also on the regional level,
04:00to have unified, strong response.
04:03Also, this year, we see over 30 shootings already happening this year.
04:07So, there is, I think, more needs to be done, of course, yes.
04:11On what level?
04:12It's a local level, there's a federal level, because the drugs come through the big ports?
04:16Yeah, which is one of the biggest assets in Belgium is all ports in Antwerp.
04:20It's true that for the Belgian economy, it's so important,
04:23but it's also the principal default,
04:25because 60% of the drugs, cocaine, who comes in the European field,
04:30come from the port of Antwerp.
04:32Then we need also to regard what we can do together to shoot this problem together.
04:38And I always propose also that the Brussels Police Department
04:41help the colleagues of Antwerp to help that,
04:44because if the cocaine comes in our territory,
04:47we know that they are in the streets of Brussels a few days after.
04:51Still, drug-related crime and shootings have become routine.
04:56You just mentioned the numbers.
04:58At what point do politicians have to admit that policy has failed?
05:05But first of all, for me, it's a real problem,
05:07because we have this sort of impress that it's only the police department
05:11and justice who can solve this problem.
05:14We are always a problem to speak about health
05:16and why so many people are using drugs.
05:19In the past, it's, for example, for heroin,
05:22these people, very poor area, we're using that.
05:24But no, the cocaine is everywhere,
05:26in every works, in every culture of the society.
05:29There are so many people using drugs,
05:31and it's not only the people who are poor with a disease problem,
05:35health problem, mental problem.
05:37And I think we need to work very strong against the drug traffics,
05:42but at the same time, to understand
05:44why so many people from our population are using drugs
05:47and how we can find an issue to help these people
05:52to gauze out of the drugs addiction.
05:54What is the most urgent thing here?
05:55Is it the social issue, the social aspect?
05:58Is it the crime aspect?
06:00Of course, you need to work on all levels, of course.
06:03You need to have a strong, integrated government
06:05to attack these problems.
06:07I think this is partly what's lacking also in Brussels.
06:10The organization of government is very fragmented.
06:12You have 19 mayors.
06:14We're standing here with Philippe Close, one of the 19 mayors,
06:17but maybe all of these 19 mayors are not really agreeing
06:20on the measures that should be taken.
06:22And to have a unified, strong response, of course,
06:26you need to have this one vision of how to tackle these problems socially,
06:31but also attack these problems of gun violence.
06:34And for me, this is what is lacking a bit in Brussels,
06:37is the structure of Brussels itself as a capital region
06:41is very fragmented, and which makes response also very fragmented.
06:45So if one thing needs to happen is that you have to unify it,
06:49strong response is necessary.
06:51Speaking of unifying, there are six police bodies in the city.
06:58It's finished.
06:59It's finished.
07:00There's going to be one.
07:02Is that a measure that will help increase the security?
07:07We will see.
07:07But if you take, for example, our colleague from Antwerp,
07:11this is only one police department, only one mayor,
07:13who will become now our prime minister,
07:15and you know that all the drugs come from the port of Antwerp,
07:18then, you know, unify is maybe one of the options.
07:22But the best option, I repeat, is first of all collaboration
07:26between the different services on the whole Europe territories.
07:30Look what happens in Le Havre, for example.
07:32The drugs coming from first from Rotterdam, then Antwerp,
07:36then Le Havre, then you talk about Marseille.
07:39And also, I repeat, only work with the police department and justice,
07:43and not with the health department.
07:45And I have always impressed that the people are afraid to speak about health
07:49and the mental health problem of a part of our population.
07:52For me, it's impossible to win in this fight.
07:55Yeah.
07:56I mean, we come to this aspect later.
07:58Is Belgium spending enough on police, or is it just spending badly?
08:04Well, police needs to be funded on different levels.
08:07You have the local police, which is mostly funded by the local authorities.
08:12And this we see in Brussels, maybe Brussels of City of Brussels is not a bad example,
08:17but there are other communities, municipalities, with mayors,
08:20who are really lacking the proper funding of police.
08:24We see that the areas where the problems are the greatest now,
08:28in the south of Brussels, there is a lack of 600 to 800 police officers in the field.
08:34Of course, this is a lack of funding, which firstly needs to be addressed on the local level.
08:38And then you need the help, of course, of the federal level as well,
08:41with the federal police and the federal investigative police,
08:44federal structures, which needs to be reinforced as well.
08:47But for me, one of the biggest challenges, of course,
08:50is to integrate the police on the Brussels level.
08:53Now this is going to happen.
08:55This is a reform taking place.
08:57But then, of course, you need to adjust the budgets as well.
09:00And I think the local level, the regional level,
09:03need to invest more in safety issues, safety measurements.
09:07I think this needs to be a priority.
09:09You know that now, since a few days, we have only one police department for Brussels,
09:14with among 7,000 police agents.
09:18But around Brussels, just 100 meters at the border of Brussels,
09:23there are some police departments of 50 police agents.
09:27It's ridiculous.
09:28I propose that this police department, around Brussels,
09:32work with us in the same zone.
09:34Because the border of the city, for the drug traffic, this is nonsense.
09:37And more collaboration, federal level for all the big inquiries,
09:42and the local level with more integrated policy departments.
09:47But I know that in Brussels and Belgium,
09:49there are always people who resist to work with Brussels.
09:52It's very strange, because we are the other assets of this country, Brussels,
09:57like I speak about the port of Antwerp.
10:00And I'm sure that the more we integrate it, the more we work together,
10:03it's better for our population.
10:05Mariusz, are you resisting working with Brussels?
10:07I think it's a bit contradictory.
10:10Brussels never really wants to integrate their own police force,
10:14and now they're asking to integrate other police forces.
10:16I think the main challenge right now is to...
10:19I think the main challenge right now is to integrate
10:22and have a fully operational police force for the whole of Brussels,
10:25with unified policies regarding drug trafficking and gun violence, etc.
10:30This is a major challenge right now for Brussels.
10:33And I urge the mayor, because he will be head of this police force,
10:37to really take up this responsibility and to have a unified response.
10:42And then, of course, you need to cooperate also with Barthe Weaver.
10:45He was also mentioned, our prime minister,
10:46because he acknowledges the problem.
10:49As a mayor of Antwerp, but also as a prime minister,
10:52he's clearly stating that he's almost becoming an existential threat,
10:57the gun violence and the drugs trade.
10:59And he's really trying to, on a national level,
11:01on an international level, putting this higher on the agenda.
11:04And in this way, I hope we can cooperate.
11:06Great. Okay. Quick response?
11:08But quick response, I repeat, we need to work also about public health.
11:12I repeat, only police department and justice department is not enough.
11:16I think in Europe, we have a good example is what happens in Portugal.
11:20I have meetings with Antonio Costa, our president of the council,
11:24the European council, to say, okay,
11:26how can we also manage this so huge challenge?
11:31And I repeat, so many people are using drugs.
11:33And why are they using drugs?
11:34And we have also the expertise of a lot of medics, psychologists,
11:39all the people who try to help the politics to build another policy about drugs.
11:44And it's not a debate about the legalization and all this motto,
11:49that if you want to talk about health, it's because you want legalization.
11:52You know, I want to find an issue.
11:54And also when I speak with the police department,
11:56they say, okay, we are police agents and the justice department does the same.
12:00We can fight against drug traffic.
12:01But to convince all the people to stop with drugs is another question.
12:06It is not the police department with the solution.
12:08I need to stop you here.
12:09Thank you very much for this first round.
12:11I think we're just getting warmed up here.
12:14And now it's time for gloves off.
12:20In this segment, we want our guests to ask each other questions and challenge each other directly.
12:27I'm going to start with Matthias.
12:29Do you have a question for the mayor?
12:33Many questions.
12:35But can you, for example, name one policy which you implemented yourself,
12:40which helped the security of our neighborhoods here in Brussels?
12:43Yeah.
12:43For example, we have a lot of problems of mental disease in Brussels, in the field.
12:49And the justice said, okay, these people are drugs addicts, but there's not regarding the justice.
12:55That we call the EMUT program.
12:57We build it with the federal government.
12:59And the police department said, we are not psychologists.
13:02And the goal is to also say that the police department that we reinforce against the drugs traffic
13:09and the drug traffickers first, but for the people who are in a drug addiction,
13:14there are another solution.
13:16And we work with the different hospitals of the city to link police department and health department.
13:23It's for me very, very important always to do this sort of cross-board between the different public services.
13:30Okay.
13:31Your question to your opponent?
13:33I think, Matthias, you know that collaboration and work together is maybe the only issue.
13:40And it's true that I'm a little bit provocative when I say that, okay,
13:45we can do a big police department with the border outside of Brussels.
13:49But I think that you have a special role, your party, with all this municipality at the border of Brussels,
13:55to convince them, okay, one police department I know is very difficult,
13:59but to integrate a sort of task force together, to work together for the welfare of our population.
14:07Yes.
14:08I think this is on a federal level.
14:11There's now projects being formed to unify police zones.
14:15And as you know, it's voluntarily.
14:17So I think...
14:18Except for Brussels.
14:19Except for Brussels, of course, which is implemented.
14:22But I think this is the challenges that some communities are facing right now,
14:26to fill their annual budgets for the police force.
14:29And I think this is an exercise that will happen in the next few years.
14:34And how exactly, which forms, which zones will be unified, I don't know.
14:38Of course, this is for the mayors and the local level to decide.
14:41But I think this evolution will take place.
14:43Yes.
14:44Okay.
14:44Good question for him.
14:45Another question maybe is, how do you see the further cooperation with your other mayors?
14:50Of course, you're one of the 19 mayors.
14:53You also have a minister-president.
14:54And how do you see this to better unify, to have a stronger response as a whole,
15:03with your cooperation with the other mayors and minister-presidents?
15:06I think all the mayors are very concerned about that.
15:10And the federal law decides that it's the mayor we need to lead the police department.
15:15We have, in collaboration with the MUNAS president, where there is a level of the region,
15:19there is more to give a sort of help to this new form of police department.
15:28But I'm very positive.
15:29I'm saying, first of all, it's a sort of state of mind.
15:32If we want to succeed, I'm very sure that we can do it.
15:37And now, okay, that's not the law that we expect.
15:40Everybody knows about that.
15:42But we respect the law.
15:44And now we build this new police department together.
15:47And I hope and I'm sure that for the best welfare of the population, that is going to be a
15:52success.
15:52What makes this topic so relevant and so important that it's not only Brussels, Antwerp, Belgium,
15:58this is the major hub because you're close to all the important markets.
16:02It's the Dutch, the Germans, the French around you.
16:05What about European cooperation?
16:07Yes, I think for the European it's very important, but not only European, it's a world cooperation
16:13because you know that the large part of the cocaine was made in South America,
16:18that we need also this contact with South America.
16:20But I repeat, war against drugs, only with police department, that's not enough.
16:26Okay.
16:26We need also to share the experience of other countries, I repeat, like Portugal,
16:32about the health public department who can help all the drugs.
16:36Okay, and now your question, your last question to Matthias.
16:39But I think what we need to do with the drugs is also a big conference when we stop with
16:45the motto
16:46and all the slogans and all the people saying, I do that better than you.
16:50Do you have the feeling that our prime minister, it is from your party, not from mine,
16:55is ready to organize a big conference with all the people who are leading local level,
17:02regional level, federal level, to try to build together a Belgian policy about fighting drugs?
17:11I think he's very open to the suggestion.
17:13I think you will know him personally as well as you have contacted him
17:17and also publicly he's very outspoken in his war on drugs.
17:20As a mayor, but also on a federal level as a prime minister, he has opened a task force
17:26which has integrated all the different ministers who have also, for example, in healthcare policies
17:33which are implemented and also have a role to play and is really trying to move forward.
17:38So if there is a question maybe from Brussels to cooperate or to have issues
17:42and to debate them on a national level, I think there always is a possibility.
17:47All right.
17:48Well, we have heard the views from our guests.
17:50Now it's time to introduce a new voice.
17:57And I would like to bring in Belgium's drugs commissioner Iné van Wiemers,
18:01who spoke about the social aspect of Belgium's drug problem.
18:04She said this, we cannot expect the military in the streets to solve the root causes of this problem.
18:11We know that we have to develop an educational policy and poverty policy.
18:16We need to get people back to work.
18:18We really have to raise the quality of life in our city.
18:22Does she have a point here?
18:24I think it's the best woman at the best place.
18:27Iné do very good jobs.
18:29It was formed also in Brussels and the Justice Department.
18:34We work also in the Police Department of Brussels.
18:37And Iné van Wiemers is very, very realistic.
18:41And Trey also to make collaboration with all the people.
18:45And as I repeat, drugs is not only for the Police Department.
18:49She speaks about education, about poverty, about what we can do together.
18:54She also speaks about military in the streets.
18:56That is an interesting aspect.
18:58Military, it exists.
18:59It exists, but does it help?
19:01Well, the main focus of military in the streets was first the security of public buildings,
19:07which were under threat.
19:08Jewish synagogues, also public buildings in EU quarters, etc.
19:12Of course, they will never solve the drug problem as a whole.
19:16That is not their purpose to have them patrolling in the streets.
19:20You need to have other measures as well, police measures, but also other health care measures, etc.
19:24To have a whole of government approach.
19:27And in this way, I agree with our drug commissioner.
19:31She compared it to an iceberg.
19:33I mean, the violence is at the top of the iceberg, very visible.
19:37But you need to increase the temperature to make the iceberg melt.
19:41And then, of course, you need to work on poverty issues, safety issues, homelessness, etc.
19:46All right, let's take a break.
19:48Here on The Ring, we'll be back with more after this.
19:51Don't go away.
20:00Welcome back to the special edition of The Ring, Euronews' weekly debate show.
20:05I'm Stefan Grobe and I'm joined by Philippe Kloos, the mayor of the city of Brussels,
20:09and Matthias Vandenbauer from the opposition NVA party.
20:13We have data here from the Belgian Public Health Institute using wastewater measurements
20:18that show that during weekends, the amount of cocaine found in this water is significantly higher.
20:25This was especially the case in Namur, Liège and Brussels South.
20:30The difference between weekends and weekdays was in some cases as high as 90%,
20:36indicating use almost doubled.
20:40Matthias, is this a surprise for you?
20:44I think the drug use in general and cocaine, it's almost everywhere integrated in our society.
20:52But we cannot really normalize it.
20:54Even though we know that it's readily available, we still need to consider it as a problem drug, I think.
21:00But you're talking obviously about nightlife, right?
21:03Yeah, yeah.
21:03Maybe in higher circles?
21:05But you know something I heard that the highest level of cocaine in the water is in this neighborhood,
21:12in the European neighborhood.
21:14It is not only against...
21:15But this is dead on weekends here, right?
21:16And this is during the week.
21:19And in the worst water, we learn that because they can also study well in which part of the city.
21:27And it's true that it's in the south of Brussels, which is the rich part of Brussels.
21:31And here in the European area.
21:33Then also, I always say to the European responsible person that be careful.
21:39It's also a large part of people walking because the work is so hard.
21:42They're using drugs not only to be fun, to go party or something like that,
21:48but because they need drugs to work.
21:49And that's a real problem for me.
21:51More and more people using drugs only because they need the drugs they need between...
21:57Should that type of consumer face harsher penalties?
22:01I think you need to responsabilize the drug use as well.
22:04I mean, this is part of the integrated approach.
22:07I mean, you have to focalize on the gun violence, of course, and the gangs.
22:10And you need to attack also the middle and the higher management and the trades, the money, and all those
22:15measures.
22:15But in a way, you need to also responsabilize the users.
22:19And this is what Barthe Weaver also is saying in Antwerp and in his fight against drugs.
22:24That it's not really so innocent to use drugs yourself because you're really compliant or a part of this whole
22:32scheme.
22:33And the real drug violence originates in the South of America with all the extreme gun violence.
22:41And in a way, as an end user, you're a part of this.
22:44For example, if you compare it to the trade of clothing, when it's really made in an unsanitary way or
22:53with child labor, etc.,
22:55people will say, okay, we won't buy this anymore.
22:57But I think you need to say the same about drugs.
23:00I mean, you're part of this very disorganized crime, in a way.
23:04I'm going to bring up against the educational aspect.
23:08And you alluded to that earlier.
23:10Now, drugs, it's an old problem, right?
23:13And even when I was in school, many years ago, I was told that drugs are bad.
23:19Why is that system failing?
23:22If we see that drugs are among youngsters, the use of drugs is increasing.
23:29Remember in the year 80s, because there was a slogan, a motto in the United States,
23:33it was just say no.
23:34But that's not enough.
23:35Just say no.
23:36Remember, it's Nancy Reagan who said that.
23:39Right.
23:39Just say no is not enough.
23:40If you want to educate someone, you need to explain to find the issue.
23:45Why so many people are using that?
23:47So why is that not happening enough?
23:48But because the people doesn't want to pick up on public health.
23:52They say, okay, we ask at the police department to solve this problem.
23:55I repeat, when I ask to the youth people, why do you use drugs?
23:59It's because it's cheaper than to pay a cocktail.
24:02I want to be high.
24:03I want to go to a party.
24:04Then it's good.
24:05It has MDMA, cocaine, ecstasy.
24:07Then they're using that because I want to be high.
24:09And it's cheaper than to take a cocktail.
24:13That's a real big problem.
24:14And we need to, if you want an education program, first of all, politicians need to accept that we need
24:21to educate people with the drugs.
24:23Not for the people using drugs, but also because we need to learn about the different addiction.
24:29All right, now it's time to move on to our fifth and final round.
24:37And here we want to do something different.
24:40I'm going to ask you a set of questions and you can only answer with yes or no.
24:45Most guests do that.
24:46Impossible for a question.
24:47Maybe.
24:48Okay.
24:48Maybe not.
24:49So the first one is for you.
24:52Has Belgium lost control of the drug issue?
24:54No.
24:56Not yet.
24:58Okay.
24:59Is Brussels less safe than it was five years ago?
25:03Yes.
25:04No.
25:05Does Belgium need tougher sentencing laws?
25:08Tougher punishments?
25:10Tougher punishments?
25:12Yes.
25:15Yes.
25:15Should combating drug trafficking become Belgium's number one security priority?
25:22Top five, yes.
25:23Top three.
25:25Yes.
25:25Same answer.
25:26Okay.
25:28Police complain they arrest suspects only to see them released days later.
25:32Is Belgium's justice system broken?
25:35No.
25:38Yes.
25:39In that way, yes.
25:40Is there simply too little fear of punishment in Belgium today?
25:44Yes.
25:45Against the deterrence?
25:47No.
25:48Should Belgium legalize some drugs to undercut criminal networks?
25:52Yes.
25:53No.
25:55Is corruption linked to drug trafficking now one of Belgium's biggest internal threats?
26:00Yes.
26:01Yes.
26:02Okay.
26:03That word of the narco state by the judge is...
26:06I think we are not a narco state, but corruption exists, depends also on drugs.
26:11Do you trust your opponent's party to solve this crisis?
26:14No.
26:16Yes.
26:18All right.
26:19Was there anything your opponent said over the past half hour that you agree with?
26:23For sure.
26:24I'm sure.
26:24You know, in Belgium, you are not agree alone.
26:26It's always the same.
26:28That's what we love about this country.
26:30Yeah.
26:30Yes.
26:31What was it?
26:32I think I know Philip Glose as a social democrat and his policies, I think as a mayor, he tries
26:42to be tough on law and tough on police.
26:44And I think this is very public about it.
26:47And I, in many ways today I heard the same, so I agree with that.
26:51Yes.
26:51Okay.
26:52One word to...
26:53But I'm sure that Matthias is always ready, always to build a bridge between Brussels and
26:57other level to convince also the level that Brussels is not only a hellhole, as Trent
27:04says, but there are always issues that we can build together.
27:06Okay.
27:07Fantastic.
27:08On that note, this final answer brings us to the end of the special edition of The Ring.
27:13Thanks again to Philipp Glose.
27:14Thank you very much.
27:15Matthias Hannenbauer.
27:16Thank you.
27:16For a lively conversation.
27:17Thanks to our audience at home.
27:19If you like, you can continue the conversation by sending us your comments to the ring at
27:24euronews.com.
27:25We'd love to have your feedback.
27:27That's it for today.
27:29I'm Stefan Grobe.
27:29Take care and see you soon on Euronews.
27:38Euronews.
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