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Eurodiputados chocan en The Ring tras la ola de calor en Europa
Una ola de calor récord abrasa Europa, ¿han fallado los políticos al proteger a la ciudadanía? ¿Es el aire acondicionado la solución? En esta edición, Benedetta Scuderi (Verdes) y Andrea Wechsler (PPE) analizan las consecuencias políticas tras la ola de calor.
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Una ola de calor récord abrasa Europa, ¿han fallado los políticos al proteger a la ciudadanía? ¿Es el aire acondicionado la solución? En esta edición, Benedetta Scuderi (Verdes) y Andrea Wechsler (PPE) analizan las consecuencias políticas tras la ola de calor.
MÁS INFORMACIÓN : http://es.euronews.com/2026/07/02/eurodiputados-chocan-en-the-ring-tras-la-ola-de-calor-en-europa
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00:08Hola y bienvenidos a The Ring, Euronews' weekly debate show broadcasting from the European Parliament here in Brussels.
00:16I'm Stefan Grober.
00:17On The Ring, members of the European Parliament go face-to-face on some of the biggest issues facing the
00:23EU.
00:23Today, we want to talk about the heatwave that is baking Europe and that raises some fundamental questions about the
00:30way we're dealing with climate change.
00:33Luis Alberto has more.
00:40Europe is the fastest warming continent on Earth, heating up at roughly twice the global average rate.
00:46As temperatures continue to rise, a critical question emerges.
00:49Is Europe prepared for a hotter future?
00:53The challenge goes far beyond climate policy.
00:56Cities are struggling to deal with extreme heat, energy systems are facing growing pressure
01:02and governments are being forced to find new ways of protecting society's most vulnerable.
01:08The debate is also increasingly ideological.
01:11Broader questions are being raised about consumption, health and sustainability.
01:16Should we forget climate change for a moment and just stay in our own air-conditioned homes if we have
01:22one?
01:23Or is it time for drastic action to be taken to mitigate the worst effects of climate change?
01:29Difficult choices lie ahead.
01:33Well, a lot to unpack for our debaters and here they are.
01:39Benedetta Scuderi, an Italian MEP from the Greens.
01:42She's a member of the Committees on Industry, Research and Energy and Women's Rights and Gender Equality.
01:48Regarding the climate crisis, she says,
01:50In Europe we are witnessing a climate collapse and its most dramatic effects, such as uninhabitable homes, power cuts and
01:57blocked transport systems.
01:59But the right continues to deny climate change and to slow down the transition.
02:03This is not pragmatism, but a choice that is destroying us.
02:08Andrea Wechsler, a German MEP from the Central-Right European People's Party.
02:12She's a member of the Committees on the Environment, Climate and Food Safety and on Industry, Research and Energy.
02:18She says, targets and goals alone will not protect people, infrastructure or nature.
02:25The real question is how we deliver.
02:27We can lose ourselves in ideology, conditionalities and regulatory micromanagement,
02:31or we can move from debate to delivery, technology open, market open and innovation open.
02:39So, let me welcome to the ring Benedetta Scuderi and Andrea Wechsler.
02:43Good to see you.
02:45Good morning.
02:45Both of you, and great to have you here.
02:48Now, the aim of the ring is to offer our viewers a glimpse at European Parliament debates,
02:53so you should feel right at home.
02:55Are you ready?
02:56Yes.
02:57Yes.
02:57All right.
02:58Let's start.
02:59Europe is once again facing record-breaking temperatures, wildfires and droughts.
03:04Is Europe ready for this?
03:07Is it prepared?
03:08Or is this simply the new normal?
03:11Andrea, I'm going to start with you.
03:12Well, first of all, let me say that we have had 150 million people affected by the heatwave
03:17over the last couple of weeks, and we lost 1,300 people.
03:21And I think this loss shows us we are not yet prepared.
03:24We are doing everything now which is in our hands to find these issues at a European level,
03:30but no, we are not at where we need to be to protect people in Europe.
03:34Why are we not prepared?
03:35This is not the first time we had a heatwave.
03:38We had extreme weather in the summer.
03:41It's not just the summer, because we have extreme weather in the summer.
03:44We have extreme weather in the autumn.
03:46I want to remember Valencia.
03:47I want to remember the flooding also in Italy.
03:49We have extreme weather also in the winter.
03:51This is a pattern.
03:52It's a climate pattern.
03:53And we're not prepared because there's a lot of people in this parliament and in many
03:58institutions that still think that climate change is not an issue.
04:01And if we do not respond to this extreme condition in a systemic way, we will never be prepared.
04:08If we think that it's one or the other emergency, now it's the heat and then it's the flooding
04:12and then it's at the extreme conditions, we will not be prepared if we don't put money,
04:17we don't give systemic solution, and we don't understand that the issue is the climate collapse.
04:22If we still keep listening to who is saying that this is not a problem and that we have time,
04:28then we will never be prepared and the conditions are going to be worse and worse.
04:31Who is to blame for this?
04:32If every year, every summer, we're kind of taken off guard by the heat,
04:37by the heat wave, with the consequences that you've described, who is to blame for this?
04:42Well, scientific evidence is clear.
04:43We do have climate change and it's induced by human behavior.
04:46It's CO2 emissions that is partially responsible for the climate change that we have.
04:52And we now have pulled the right policy levers on a European level to tackle the clear signals
04:58that we have how we need to address climate change.
05:00So there is not this one person to blame.
05:03But what we're doing now is take responsibility in the face of scientific evidence
05:08to tackle climate change in Europe and to lead to decarbonization.
05:12Well, it's maybe not one person, but is there one institution?
05:15Are there national governments?
05:17Is there a commission?
05:18All of them?
05:19We cannot blame one institution.
05:21It's a systemic problem.
05:23We can blame the multinational that, like, 57 of them are, like, the most polluted,
05:28the biggest polluted, and we are doing nothing about it.
05:31We can blame our governments because they're still not adapting as fast.
05:34We can blame the European Parliament also when they decide to do steps backwards on climate laws,
05:42on climate regulation, climate-related regulation.
05:45I want to remember the deforestation, for example, the deforestation law that we had a lot of steps back.
05:50And this is one of the first steps that we need to actually take to respond to the climate crisis.
05:55It's the Parliament also to blame, and not just the Parliament.
05:58The Parliament, the Consul, and the Commission, when they want to de-finance climate adaptation in the new MFF proposals,
06:04there's basically no money for climate adaptation, and we see the situation we are now.
06:09And we also need to blame internationally people like Trump that decided to not even go to COP
06:16and to get out of the climate negotiations.
06:19This is extremely dangerous.
06:21Now, a weakening climate policy?
06:22Many people believe that your party is sort of part of the problem,
06:27not part of the solution when it comes to climate policy.
06:29How do you respond?
06:30No, we're clearly a part of the solution.
06:31We're not part of the problem.
06:32We clearly recognize that there is a climate issue, and we're tackling the climate issue.
06:36But what we're not doing is rolling back on climate legislation.
06:39On the contrary, what we are doing is to accelerate the implementation of the climate legislation
06:45that we've taken and that we've put into place in the European Union,
06:48which is the most ambitious continent, and this has been done under Ursula von der Leyen.
06:53The Green Deal is EPP policy, and we are now trying to combine the clean industrial deal with the Green
07:00Deal,
07:00which means, like, make it work now, but with technology openness and not with bureaucracy.
07:05If you take the deforestation legislation, that is not leading us to the effect that it's meant to have
07:11with the bureaucracy that comes with this.
07:13And this is what we're doing.
07:14This is not deregulation.
07:15Okay, Benelitha, do you agree?
07:16Absolutely not.
07:18I am sorry.
07:19But the EPP is a big part of the problem.
07:23The EPP in this mandate is deciding deliberately to side with the far right on many legislations.
07:30And one of the two main topics is climate and environment.
07:33Deforestation is not bureaucracy.
07:36Like, fighting deforestation globally, that was the intent of the regulation,
07:39is the main aim that we have, is the main mean that we have to actually fight and stop the
07:47climate change.
07:48I mean, if we keep thinking that we're not giving answer and aligning with the far right and destroying the
07:55Green Deal,
07:55because there's many pieces of the Green Deal that have been destroyed by the EPP in this moment,
07:59without giving a direction to Europe, this is making us more vulnerable.
08:04Okay.
08:04How do you think about air conditioning?
08:07Air conditioning?
08:07I think at some point it becomes necessary, but we also need to make our housing and our buildings more
08:16efficient.
08:17And this is another thing that I will really have the EPP on board to not destroy the building efficiency
08:23directive, for example.
08:25I think also that this is a social justice issue, because air conditioning is only available for the richest part
08:31of the population.
08:32It's not available for the part of the population that is more vulnerable, and we need to provide to everyone
08:37the possibility of refreshment.
08:40Andrea, what is your position on air conditioning?
08:42Well, first of all, let me be very clear.
08:43We're neither destroying the Green Deal.
08:45We've made a clear commitment for the 2040 climate targets, nor are we destroying climate legislation.
08:50On the contrary, we're trying to make it work by accelerating the implementation of the climate legislation
08:56and by being clearly committed to the climate goals of the European Union.
08:59What about air conditioning?
09:01A big debate right now in Europe.
09:03Well, it's clearly to me one very important part in terms of an electrification strategy.
09:08We need a cooling strategy for people.
09:11We've had people, the elderly, the vulnerable, the children in schools, where it's impossible to survive or even to have
09:16schooling.
09:17Yes, air conditioning is one of the pillars and the solutions for the people.
09:21It's electrified.
09:23This is the way the European Union is going forward.
09:25It will be one part of climate adaptation.
09:27But this will not be enough, and that is why we're working on the implementation of the climate change.
09:30Benedetta mentioned the sort of social inequality when it comes to access to that technology.
09:37Do you think she has a point?
09:38Well, there clearly is one, and that's why it's so important that the Commission now comes up with a cooling
09:41strategy
09:42where we clearly need a targeted strategy that we protect the vulnerable first, and that is the elderly, that is
09:49hospitals, that is schools.
09:50And then it goes to private homes.
09:52And yes, this is our task to make climate protection for the vulnerable.
09:56How can we implement such an idea?
09:58I mean, the schools, hospitals, et cetera, many hospitals and schools have air conditioning.
10:04Not in all countries.
10:05Not in all members states.
10:07Yeah.
10:07The point is, and again, I would like to take on board the EPP on this, we need funding.
10:12And this Commission is not putting funding on this.
10:15We've been asking since the start of the mandate some funding for building renovation.
10:20We have a building renovation directive, which we really want to keep.
10:23But that is, again, a social justice issue, because if we don't have the funding, only the people that can
10:28afford the renovation will have efficient housing.
10:32And instead, we want especially the people that cannot afford the renovation, the public administration, the schools,
10:37especially in countries and regions that are in more danger to be able to afford renovation.
10:43And this Commission is not putting money on it.
10:46The Parliament is also not agreeing on this, because we, for example, in the European Competitiveness Fund,
10:50are asking for a part of the money to go into a building renovation.
10:54We've been asking it in the MFF.
10:56We are asking it in all the places.
10:59If you don't put the money, you can do all the cooling strategy you want.
11:02You're not going to have that.
11:03Should it be a European thing here, or should it be left to the national governments, because they're closer to
11:07the situation?
11:09First of all, European money is endless.
11:12And we need to be very clear about where we put the money for the next couple of years.
11:16And yes, it would be a great wish list to have air conditioning for schools on the MFF wish list.
11:21But this will not realistically work, because we will not be able to fund European air conditioning in the breath
11:28as we need it.
11:28So our avenue in the EPP is clearly to fund innovative technologies to make the technology cheaper and to work
11:36on the lowering of energy prices in order to make the operation cheaper.
11:41So energy prices down, technology cheaper, and this is going to make it more accessible.
11:46And just on a side note, in Germany, air conditioning is considered to be a heat pump.
11:50And so you can actually get subsidies by the German state.
11:53So I think given the limitations of the budget on the European level, we should not put it into subsidies
11:59for air conditioning, but into innovative technologies on the one hand side and lowering energy prices on the other.
12:05Let me just step in here as we're just getting warmed up.
12:09That is no pun intended.
12:10We are ready for the next round.
12:16Now it's time for you to challenge each other directly, just as you do in the hemicycle behind us.
12:23So Benedetta, this round starts with you.
12:25Yes.
12:26So my colleague has talked about the difficulties that many workers on the workplace have experienced in this heat wave.
12:34So I want to ask you if you will be available to support a call for our directive for the
12:40European Commission to protect workers, especially the most vulnerable ones, from heat waves.
12:46That means more breaks.
12:48That means understanding which are the temperature.
12:51That means changing the shift.
12:53We need a legally binding directive and we need the EPP on board because we can say we want to
12:58protect European people.
12:59That's a long question.
13:01First of all, let me be very clear.
13:03We need to protect workers and we need to use the flexibilities and the law to protect them in place.
13:08There is already a big body of law for the protections of workers in place.
13:12So before we call for a new directive, our EPP approach clearly is let's make an impact assessment of what
13:17directives do we have, what national legislation do we have, and how does it fit together.
13:22Because what we do not want to have is yet a call for a new directive in elements which are
13:26already largely regulated on a European level and allow the member states for flexibilities.
13:32We have northern states where you have more protection for cold weather probably and then heat waves where we have
13:38other member states.
13:40So let's keep the flexibility.
13:42Clearly commitment to protect workers, but let's not do another directive without having evaluated what the current legislation already does.
13:49All right.
13:50Now your question to Benedetta.
13:51Well, let me talk about technology openness, Madame Escuderi.
13:55If we want to really convincingly decarbonize, we need to be open not only for electrons, and clearly electrification will
14:03be the main pathway for decarbonizing, but also for molecules.
14:07And what I see the Greens going for is that they do not treat all technologies that we need for
14:12decarbonization equally.
14:14Take CCOs, take low carbon hydrogen, take synthetic fuels.
14:17This is something we don't get your party on board.
14:20How will you approach renewable energies that comes from molecules?
14:25First, we need to understand what is renewable and what is not renewable.
14:28Then we need to understand what is sustainable and what is not sustainable.
14:32But mostly, I think this is a way from a certain part of this parliament, and not just this parliament,
14:38but politics, to hide the fact that we want to keep fossil fuel in.
14:43Because CCT, it's a good technology, but only if we use it in a very, very, very, hardly decarbonizing sectors.
14:51Instead, the people party wants to use it in things like electricity production.
14:57And we have renewable energies for that.
14:59We don't need CCT.
15:00And this has been actually approved by the parliament in the project of common interest.
15:04And for us, it's absolutely impossible to sustain something like that, because it's economically absolutely non-efficient, cost-efficient, and
15:12it's also dangerous for the environment.
15:14Low-carbon hydrogen is a very costly technology, and we saw it because we had a hydrogen program, and that
15:23was not flying, because it's just not economically efficient.
15:27And instead, other technologies could be.
15:29And also, low-carbon hydrogen is made with gas, if you intend blue hydrogen, which absolutely doesn't make sense, because
15:36gas is very costly, hydrogen is very costly, and it's still keeping the fossil fuel in.
15:42So what would happen is that we will not have low-carbon hydrogen.
15:45We will have gas inside the energy mix, and this is a strategy of the fossil lobby to have fossil
15:51fuel in the energy mix forever.
15:53We actually want to get out of that.
15:54So if we have technologies that are doing this, are cost-efficient, and are scalable, the greens are all open.
16:00All right.
16:01We've heard the views from our guests.
16:03Now it's time to bring in a new voice.
16:09I would like to bring in Simon Steele, the executive secretary of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change.
16:16In a statement released last week, he said this.
16:20Until humanity stops burning colossal amounts of coal, oil, and gas, extreme heat will keep getting worse, and other climate
16:29impacts from mega-droughts, floods, wildfires, and storms will keep hammering every economy and population harder each year.
16:39He certainly has a point here.
16:41But how realistic is it that we get off fossil fuel immediately in the European Union?
16:48First of all, he's right.
16:50Burning fossil fuels cannot be the way to the future because we know the impacts and we felt it in
16:55the heat wave.
16:56The question is how fast can we work on the transformation and what decarbonization levers do we have?
17:01So first of all, the strategy in the European Union is clear.
17:04Let's get independent from fossil fuels imports.
17:07Let's try to electrify in order to get the fossils out of our system, which is also a major issue
17:13in terms of resilience.
17:14And then there will be hard-to-abate sectors where we have to work on alternatives.
17:18We talked about hydrogen, which will be one of the important pathways to go forward.
17:22But there will be some sectors where we need fossil fuels also as a base sort of material in the
17:28chemicals industry.
17:29And we have to be open to use it, at least in those processes where we cannot substitute it.
17:34But clearly, the majority of the policies targeted are towards defossilization.
17:40Benedetta, even if Europe acted tonight, right, or tomorrow, we cannot save the world alone, the planet alone.
17:48Now, a global climate policy is under pressure, if not under attack.
17:53You mentioned Trump earlier.
17:56How can we get the international community sort of back on track towards a common climate policy?
18:04Well, first of all, we need to keep our own goals and to not water them down.
18:08And again, like the climate law, we're very happy that we have a climate law that is setting a target
18:13for 2040.
18:14But again, because of the EPP lining with the far right, we couldn't have a very clear target and we
18:21have it watered down.
18:22How can we expect to convince the rest of the world to have good targets, good policies, if we are
18:28the first that are doing that backwards?
18:30Second, we need to be clear on what we are financing.
18:33And again, I mean, I understand that we say that we want to face out fossil fuel.
18:38But then if in the negotiation, if in the files, we don't say that no European money are going into
18:45technologies that are financing fossils and that all the MFF is actually going to face out fossil fuel as an
18:52aim.
18:52Of course, it's not happening in the next seven years, but that needs to be the aim of also the
18:56MFF.
18:57Then we are not going into the right direction.
18:59Okay.
19:00Andrea, the EPP has been mentioned again.
19:03No, I mean, we are not watering.
19:04Is that cooperation with the far right coming to haunt you?
19:06No, it's absolutely, no, we are clearly standing by the climate goals.
19:11We fixed 2040 and yes, we have an offset to 85% because this is also reaching out into other
19:17countries and to allow for quick wins.
19:19We can do it perfectly here in the European Union with 90% in Europe and this will be very
19:24hard to achieve.
19:25And it's better to have the 90% with an offset in other countries, Article 6 in the Paris Agreement,
19:31which allows for it.
19:32It's foreseen in the international community.
19:34I think this is a very pragmatic way forward with still reaching the 90% but giving flexibilities to achieve
19:41it.
19:41Okay.
19:42Are you happy with this answer?
19:43Absolutely not.
19:44We can do both and we should do both.
19:47All right.
19:47Let's take a break here on The Ring.
19:49We'll be back with more after this.
19:51Stay with us.
20:01Welcome back to The Ring, Euronews' weekly debate show.
20:04I'm Stefan Grob and I'm joined by Benedetta Scuderi from the Greens from Italy and Andrea Wechsler from the European
20:10People's Party from Germany.
20:12Today, our topic is the sweltering heat that Europeans are suffering from right now.
20:17One aspect is the heat in our big cities.
20:20European cities can be up 10 degrees hotter at night than surrounding rural areas during heatwaves.
20:27In Paris, for instance, nights are typically 4 degrees warmer than nearby countrysides.
20:32In Madrid and Rome, heatwaves show 10 to 15 degrees surface temperature gaps between city and rural areas.
20:40Even Brussels, Amsterdam, Berlin now see more tropical nights and stronger nighttime heat.
20:47Should cities be legally required to provide more green spaces?
20:53I think the problem with Europe that has been the last mandate is that we had a lot of legal
20:57requirements but we had no financial support with it.
21:00And this is extremely unfair.
21:01What is happening now in the next MFF is also that cohesion funds are going down.
21:07So that means that cities in the most vulnerable regions are actually going to suffer over cuts of funds.
21:11How we can make a legal requirement to a city that is already extremely underfunded?
21:15We have a requirement from Europe and then we say, but then you see how to do it.
21:19Then European citizens aren't going to hate us.
21:21We need to do both.
21:22We need to do regulation.
21:23We need to accompany people and cities to do this and we need to give the right financial provisions.
21:28You see, I'm different.
21:29I say, no, we do not need legal regulation because this is something that the municipalities, the nation states in
21:35terms of subsidiarity can deal with on local level.
21:38And they need to see what is possible to fund.
21:40Where do the funds come from?
21:42And at the same time, every region, every city is different.
21:44We have very different elements in the city.
21:47So let them do their job on the ground.
21:49They do an interesting job.
21:50Is it becoming a question of inequality?
21:52Absolutely.
21:53And this is a cohesion matter because it's inequality within Europe.
21:57That's why, of course, we don't need a very strong regulation.
22:00But we can have regulation of consumption of soil that, for example, we propose.
22:04And again, the EPP has watered down saying, like, no, let's not put it binding.
22:07So we still have a very high rate of consumption of soil.
22:12And Europe has done nothing about it.
22:14While we know that consumption of soil is very bad for heat waves and flooding.
22:18That doesn't mean that we need to say to the city how to do it.
22:21But we can say, okay, now we need to reduce the consumption of soil.
22:25And now we need to remake green some areas.
22:28And we can provide you with the financial support.
22:30That means more own resources.
22:33That means also maybe taxing the richest part of the population that's becoming richer and richer.
22:37And maybe doing some public debt as well, common debt.
22:40Thank you so far.
22:41And now it's time to move on to our fifth and final round.
22:49And here we want to do something different.
22:50I'm going to ask you a set of questions.
22:52And you can only answer with yes or no.
22:56Okay?
22:57Andrea, I start with you.
22:59Simple question.
23:00Is Europe winning the fight against climate change?
23:02Yes, they're on their way.
23:03Uh-huh.
23:04No.
23:06No.
23:07All right.
23:08Should new homes be legally required to withstand extreme heat?
23:11No, it's not another mandatory requirement.
23:14We go for decarbonization.
23:15And this is one of the main levers for housing.
23:18Okay.
23:18They already are for European directive.
23:20So I hope this answer doesn't mean that EPP wants to backtrack us on that.
23:24Okay.
23:25Has climate policy become too ideological?
23:28Yes.
23:30Yeah, from the far right.
23:32Because they are attacking it without knowing it.
23:33Okay.
23:35And one more.
23:37Is there anything that has been, that you have heard over the past half hour from your opponent
23:43that you agree with?
23:44A lot of things, actually.
23:46We all agree that we need to fasten up on climate prevention, adaptation, mitigation, that we need to provide the
23:54correct funding.
23:55I think we have a different view on regulation, on the role of Europe and the role of European budget.
24:03But there's other things that, at least me and Andrea agree, I'm not sure the whole group of Andrea will
24:09agree.
24:10Andrea.
24:11Well, I think in the targets we are absolutely aligned and it's a question of how we implemented, even in
24:16the small targets, about air conditioning.
24:18I think there is a strong alignment.
24:20So let's make this work.
24:21There is always the argument that when it comes to climate policy, politicians haven't brought the public on board.
24:31Yeah.
24:31Is that something you agree with?
24:33I absolutely agree with that because there's been a lot of targets and I've said this before, that was the
24:39problem on our last mandate.
24:41There were a lot of targets that I really agree with, but there was not enough guidelines, guiding and funding
24:48to actually achieve those targets.
24:50So if you say to someone, this is it, now you need to renovate your house, you need to buy
24:54an electric car, you need to do this, they will not be able to do it.
24:58But instead, if you say, okay, like let's say to the member states that they need to renovate all the
25:03public housing that are inefficient and we give them part of the money and they need to find the other
25:08part of the money,
25:09then the part of the population that is in the most difficulties will have a better house, the targets will
25:15be met and actually the most inefficient building park will be renovated.
25:19If we did San Fernandez, we would have the people on board.
25:23That's the very different approach from us, like we would not put it down from Brussels on the people and
25:29give them funding for it, but we want people bottom up to have a business case,
25:33to understand that if they install a heat pump, this is going to be beneficial economically for the environment.
25:40Let them be part of the solution and not paternalistically from the top, from Brussels, bring it down to the
25:46people and give them funding.
25:48Have you ever been to the south of Europe, to the eastern Europe?
25:51Oh yes, oh yes, I lived in Italy for two years.
25:54Do you see the condition of some people living there?
25:56Do you think they can afford to put a heat pump and that would be the first vote?
26:01Energy prices in Italy are one of the highest...
26:03That is not about the energy prices.
26:05I know, I know, I know, I know, but this is not the case.
26:07But the problem is that in some places of our continent, and not just in some regions, but like in
26:14the suburbs and where the most vulnerable people live, people cannot afford to put a heat pump.
26:20So we're going to be like, oh, we give you a business case and you do it.
26:24They cannot afford to pay the rent.
26:26They cannot afford to pay the food.
26:28And we want to give them a business case?
26:30No, we need to give support, we need to give financing, and we need to want a Europe as a
26:35wants.
26:36So there has no differences.
26:38Instead, if we say, you do it on a local level, we will just increase inequalities and differences.
26:44Does she have a point here?
26:45No, well, I do see the point which she's trying to make.
26:48But eventually it will not work if you paternalistically make, you know, you're now forcing the people into transformation, even
26:55though they're in vulnerable areas, even though there is energy poverty.
26:58And it's taking them on board and having investments being made in those local communities is massively better.
27:05And if you talk about Italy, it's one of the most fossil fuel dependent energy systems.
27:09That's why here we have to change.
27:11And then electricity prices go down and then you do have a business model.
27:14All right.
27:15I think we cannot solve the problem today.
27:19But thank you so much for a very interesting conversation.
27:22Then this brings us to the end of this edition of The Ring.
27:25Thanks again to Benedetta Scudeli and Andrea Wechsler.
27:29Thanks to our audience at home.
27:31If you'd like, you can continue the conversation by sending us your comments to the ring at euronews.com.
27:38That's it for today.
27:39I'm Stefan Grober.
27:40Take care and see you soon on Euronews.
27:46Take care.
27:47Take care.
27:48Take care.
27:50Take care.
27:51CC por Antarctica Films Argentina