- 13 hours ago
Who Do You Think You Are? - Season 17 Episode 2 - Guy Sebastian
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Short filmTranscript
00:01Music
00:11The thing that makes me feel like I belong is music.
00:19Yeah, it's always my centre.
00:23Celebrated singer-songwriter Guy Sebastian shot to fame
00:26in 2003 when he unexpectedly won the inaugural season
00:31of Australian Idol.
00:33And it was at a time when, like, everyone was good-looking
00:36and, like, they could dance and had jawlines.
00:39And here's this, like, weird-looking, like,
00:42afro-haired chubby little dude trying to get a record deal.
00:52Now a multi-award-winning international musician,
00:56Guy's curious to investigate his ancestral heritage.
01:01My parents are my heroes. I love them.
01:04Like, I look up to them and I look up to their relationship.
01:08My dad is very educated.
01:10He always instilled hard work.
01:12And he's a very loving, kind man.
01:16And my mum, she's always been strong.
01:19Now she's strong for Dad.
01:23Dad's recovering from cancer treatment at the moment.
01:28And it definitely gives me a lot more urgency, I think,
01:32to learn more about my mum and dad's heritage.
01:35Yeah, family is really...
01:37It's everything to me.
01:41Despite awards and accolades,
01:44Guy's focus remains firmly fixed on his childhood sweetheart, Jules,
01:48and their sons, Hudson and Archer.
01:51Yeah!
01:53They're the roots that keep you here.
01:55Like, they're the roots that make you tick.
01:57If love isn't deep and real, like, what do we have?
02:02The biggest drive for me doing this is my love for my family
02:07and my desire for everyone to know, finally, what we are.
02:14And I think it's about identity for myself.
02:20Seeking to untangle his ancestral story.
02:23Jafna was a war zone.
02:26Guy finds trailblazers.
02:28I didn't expect this.
02:30Amazing, right?
02:31Lost connections.
02:34And an essential truth.
02:36Your mother's DNA results.
02:39This is a big moment.
02:41Oh, my God.
02:50What's beginning?
03:18The children of heart.
03:18The crises are marked by others.
03:20Guy Sebastian was born in 1981 in Malaysia.
03:25His family migrated to Australia in 1988 when Guy was six, eventually settling in Adelaide.
03:33With my ancestry, there's not a lot of clarity on either side of my family.
03:39I never met my mum's mum or dad and I never met my dad's dad, who I'm named after.
03:47My dad's Sri Lankan by blood, but born in Malaysia, what happened before Malaysia?
03:58And mum grew up in India, but she's very fair-skinned and I believe there's Portuguese somewhere
04:05in there.
04:06I don't know, her heritage is definitely a bit of a mystery to me and to her, I think.
04:12Mum, she's lost both of her parents young, so India is a missing piece of the puzzle.
04:19Complete mystery on my mum's side, yeah.
04:25Guy!
04:26To help decipher their family history in India, Guy's mother Nellie has come to Sydney on a
04:34surprise visit.
04:35How old are you?
04:37When did you get here?
04:38What?
04:40Just flew in.
04:41Yeah.
04:42Right.
04:43What have you brought along?
04:44Nellie's sister Yvonne has provided some clues.
04:48What have you got?
04:49My beautiful mum and dad.
04:52Oh yes.
04:54So that's your grandparents that you never had the opportunity to meet.
05:00Guy's mother Nellie was born in 1958 in Kanpur, India.
05:05The South Asian subcontinent was also the birthplace of her father, Malcolm George Neil, and mother,
05:13Mary Ivy Amelia Wright.
05:17My mum always used to tell us that her mum was Portuguese.
05:22So they're definitely Portuguese.
05:23Yeah.
05:23And she was so pretty guy.
05:26Yes.
05:26You know, my dad saw my mum, and it was love at first sight.
05:32But dad's side of the family, they never approved.
05:36My dad was just, he was a beautiful man, but he was never a provider, if I can say that.
05:44Yeah.
05:45We didn't have a lot of money, and yet, all us children, we were rich with love.
05:50Mm.
05:51Now, Aunty Yvonne also has done a family tree.
05:55Oh, wow.
05:57So there's six generations.
05:59Yes.
05:59So what little that I have come to know is that Richard Neil, my great, great granddad,
06:08would have been the first Neil to start the tree from India, coming from England.
06:15Do you know why he moved, or?
06:17Oh.
06:18I'm not sure, but I do know, my dad used to talk about it, that there was leather business
06:26in the Neil family.
06:28Mm.
06:29Yeah.
06:29And Aunty Yvonne has also found Richard Neil's marriage certificate.
06:38Oh, wow.
06:40Richard Neil Soldier and Margaret Beresford.
06:451825.
06:45Tuna.
06:47So Richard's wife is Margaret Beresford.
06:50Yeah.
06:51I think it would be great if you can actually get to Tuna and learn more about Richard Neil,
07:02your great, great, great granddad.
07:04Yeah.
07:05And you can tell me, because you have no idea how special this really is.
07:15No, I know.
07:16I've been wanting to do this for so long.
07:18One thing I really regret is I wish I did get to know more of your family more.
07:24It's never too late.
07:27And if you get to go to Kanpur, my greatest wish would be that you went and put flowers
07:36on mum and dad's graves.
07:37Yeah, of course.
07:40I'll do that.
07:43Yeah.
07:44That's been my dream.
07:49Guy is headed for the first time to the country of his mother's birth.
07:54A place that holds the key to the mystery of Nelly's heritage.
07:58India.
08:00Once the jewel in the crown of the British Empire, India won independence in 1947.
08:08And is now the world's most populous democracy.
08:12It's a shock to the system.
08:14That's for sure.
08:16It's a sensory overload.
08:30It's chaos.
08:40And just beauty.
08:48Following the trail of his three times great-grandfather, Richard Neal, Guy's approaching the ancient town of Tuna, famous for
08:58its historic fort overlooking the sacred river.
09:01Ganges.
09:03He's contacted history scholar Shahini Mitru, who has information to share.
09:08Your three times great-grandfather, Richard Neal, came from a small English village called Barleston in East Midlands.
09:19Okay.
09:20He invested in the British East India Company's armed forces, and in 1810, he arrived in India.
09:28Formed in 1600, the East India Company was an English business venture trading in Asian goods.
09:36Over time, it evolved into a great colonial power.
09:41Purchasing land from Indian rulers, the company protected its interests by recruiting troops, eventually developing substantial armies.
09:53By the mid-1850s, the East India Company governed two-thirds of the Indian subcontinent.
09:59I would like to show you a document.
10:02Okay.
10:03So, Richard Neal.
10:05This is his rank.
10:07G.
10:07What is G?
10:08G stands for gunner.
10:10Uh-huh.
10:10Because he was part of the Bengal Artillery.
10:13Mm-hmm.
10:14First company, Artillery Invalids.
10:17Invalids?
10:18Invalids were those soldiers who were considered to be unsuitable for field duties.
10:25Okay.
10:26They were given light duties, and they were also given the option of going back to England.
10:33He obviously chose to stay, right?
10:35Yes.
10:35Yeah.
10:36These invalids were often housed in the Choonar Fort.
10:41Okay.
10:41And they often married or formed connections with local Indian women.
10:48Did Richard marry a local Indian woman?
10:52Because for me, that's something I've been trying to discover for my family, whether there was Indian blood.
10:59There is a possibility.
11:01Okay.
11:02Certainly.
11:02Because cross-cultural marriages were quite common during the early years.
11:08Okay.
11:08And then, in 1837, your two times great-grandfather, James, was born here at Choonar.
11:18Okay.
11:19And he followed in his father's footsteps and joined the East India Company's armed forces.
11:25And this is James's attestation form.
11:29Oh, so this is his application?
11:32Yes.
11:33Yeah?
11:33Okay.
11:34Okay.
11:35What is your age?
11:3614 years and two months.
11:39Wow.
11:40That's my son in a few months.
11:44That's so young to join the army.
11:50Attestation for East India Company service.
11:54Half pay buglers, trumpeters of mixed parentage.
11:58So, James was a bugler.
12:01So, bugler would send signals during battles.
12:06And this is a photograph of a bugler.
12:10That's really cool, isn't it?
12:11Wow.
12:12This is what your two times great-grandfather used to do.
12:18So, he was a musician?
12:20He was.
12:21Ah.
12:23Now, I would like to show you another document which talks about James's physical attributes.
12:30Wow.
12:32Description of James Neal Recruit.
12:34Complexion dark.
12:36Yes.
12:37Hair dark.
12:38So, that may suggest that his mum was in fact local.
12:43Yes.
12:44Wow.
12:46Then, in 1859, he got married at the age of 21.
12:52Wow.
12:52To Margaret McKen.
12:55Margaret's father, James McKen, he was from Ireland, Dublin.
13:00Ah.
13:00So, Margaret's Irish?
13:03Yes.
13:03Okay.
13:05So, James Neal and his dad, Richard, they were both soldiers for their whole life?
13:12Well, what we do know is James' career took a different turn.
13:17Okay.
13:25Richard Neal, my three times great-grandfather, he lived and worked on this hill up here at
13:33the fort.
13:34You've got to have an adventurous spirit to think, I'm going to stay here.
13:37He never went back to Britain.
13:41That began the tree of Neals that led to me eventually.
13:46And James, my great-great-grandfather, was a musician in the army.
13:51Pretty cool discovery.
14:00Guy is curious to learn more about the career direction of his two times great-grandfather,
14:05James Neal.
14:07He's travelling 120 kilometres north to one of the oldest cities in India, Prayagraj,
14:15formerly known as Allahabad.
14:19Considered one of the holiest sites for Hindus, it's situated at the confluence of three rivers,
14:24the Ganges, Yamuna and the mythical Saraswathi.
14:37At this venerated place, Guy sought out military historian...
14:42Morning, Rana-ji.
14:44...former squadron leader Rana-china.
14:48In 1866, James Neal becomes a sergeant.
14:53Okay.
14:54Now, this is the turning point in his military service.
14:58That is what brings him to what was then Allahabad, now Prayagraj.
15:03Okay.
15:03And then what's his next promotion?
15:06So he was promoted to sub-conductor.
15:10Yeah.
15:11And then he becomes a conductor.
15:13The reason they were called conductor is that they would conduct the convoys of military
15:19stores that were taken around different parts of the country, right?
15:24To deliver the weapons.
15:25Yeah.
15:25So it was a really important post.
15:28And ultimately, he becomes an honorary captain and a deputy commissary.
15:33There's only one step or one rank higher than that.
15:36Wow.
15:37He is obviously a very intelligent, very capable man.
15:40I mean, there's no way that a person from his social background and mixed heritage
15:45could have taken that kind of trajectory.
15:47Yeah, wow.
15:48So that's what brings him to Allahabad.
15:52And it is while he's here, posted at the fort,
15:55where your great-grandfather, George Edward, is born in 1876.
16:01Okay.
16:02However, unfortunately, there is tragedy in James's life.
16:06Have a look at that.
16:08My gosh.
16:09Death of Mrs. Margaret Neal.
16:12Wife of Honorary Captain James Neal of this factory on the 12th instant
16:16from compound dislocation of ankle joint.
16:20Yeah.
16:20Wow.
16:21So he lost his wife.
16:23The other interesting thing about this is that...
16:27Cornpore harness and saddle reef factory office.
16:30Yeah.
16:31So he worked there?
16:33Yeah.
16:33He goes there as a government official, and it would have been a very well-paying host.
16:39So now he's moved to Kanpur.
16:42So Kanpur was actually very well known for its leather goods.
16:49It is possible that he may have gone into private enterprise after he retired.
16:54Okay.
16:55So I've heard a lot about leather goods as a reason for the wealth.
17:00Yeah.
17:01That was a few generations up.
17:03So this is where that comes from.
17:04Wow.
17:04All right.
17:05Oh, that's very interesting.
17:10I felt pride hearing about James.
17:17I finally got some clarity about the connection to the leather industry.
17:22I can't wait for my mum to hear this.
17:36I'm just loving it here.
17:44I feel very connected to this place.
17:56Pursuing this new lead, Guy's travelling 200 kilometres north to the industrial city of Kanpur.
18:04There, he hopes to untangle the tales of past family fortune.
18:08Hello, Gillian.
18:09Hello.
18:09Lovely to meet you.
18:10Lovely to meet you too.
18:11To this end, Guy's organised to meet writer and translator Gillian Wright.
18:16So your great grandfather, George Edward Neil, did quite well.
18:20And we find him actually getting married in 1902.
18:24Okay.
18:25Perhaps you'd like to see this.
18:26Yes, please.
18:28Okay.
18:28Well, this is marriages solemnised at All Saints Church, Missouri.
18:34Yeah.
18:34In 1902, October 8th, George Edward Neil marries Eileen Mary Main Saunders.
18:42He's a bank superintendent in Kanpur.
18:45Well, that's very different to the military service of his father.
18:48But what he's done, I think, is built on his father's success into a new field.
18:54And a bank superintendent in a big city, big industrial city like Kanpur is a good profession.
19:00Yeah.
19:00And Eileen Mary Main Saunders.
19:03That sounds like quite a European name, doesn't it?
19:07Oh, yes.
19:07Yes.
19:08In fact, we have a photograph of the young couple when they were just married.
19:12Oh.
19:13Okay.
19:13Great.
19:15Wow.
19:15Good looking couple.
19:17Very good looking.
19:18He looks very regal.
19:20And she is stunning.
19:21My goodness.
19:23And we know a little bit about her.
19:24We know that her father, Francis William Saunders,
19:27he was a civil surgeon in Lalitpur, means you're the top medical man in the district.
19:32It's a very respected job.
19:34Yeah.
19:34So she also comes from a good family.
19:36So I think this could have been a good match.
19:40They look good together.
19:41They do.
19:42Yeah.
19:42And then in 1910, your grandfather was born.
19:46Okay.
19:47Malcolm George.
19:48The youngest.
19:49But by then, his father, George, had left the bank.
19:53Okay.
19:54Because in his birth certificate, it's shown that he was the proprietor of a teak manufacturing.
20:00A teak wood?
20:02Yes.
20:02So he was quite entrepreneurial.
20:04Yes.
20:05And we have a couple of photographs showing their residences.
20:08Okay.
20:09So this is the view of the tennis court in their estate in Missouri.
20:13Wow.
20:13Looks quite luxurious.
20:15Missouri is one of the beautiful hill stations up in the Himalayas.
20:20Established by the British in the 19th century, basically as places to go in the hot weather.
20:25Like a holiday house.
20:26Yeah.
20:28And then we have a picture of their house here in Kanpur.
20:32Oh, wow.
20:33So this is where he lived here in Kanpur.
20:35This is where George and Eileen and their children lived in Kanpur.
20:38It's a beautiful home.
20:40And it's a classic British Raj bungalow.
20:42So your grandfather, Malcolm, who's growing up in this wonderful situation where they have
20:48so much that he doesn't need to work.
20:51Yeah.
20:52Then in 1940, when he was 30, your grandfather, Malcolm, met the young Mary Ivy Amelia Wright.
21:02And they had a whirlwind romance and married the next year in 1941 and soon had a child.
21:09Okay.
21:09Wow.
21:10He didn't waste any time.
21:12But the fly in the ointment is that his parents disapproved very, very strongly.
21:20The thing is the British Raj was horribly hierarchical and horribly classist.
21:25There was this upwardly mobile family.
21:28They obviously felt that this marriage didn't fit in with that at all.
21:33And it seems as though he was cut off by his parents.
21:37Yes.
21:38That disapproval changed the course of the life my mother led.
21:43It certainly did.
21:44And, of course, of Malcolm and his wife.
21:46Yes.
21:47But that love seems to have lasted because we have this beautiful photograph which shows
21:51Malcolm.
21:52Embracing.
21:53Mary in later life.
21:55Yeah.
21:56My mum, she just says he loved deeply his wife.
22:01And talking of your mum, we have one final piece of information, which is your mother's DNA results.
22:11Oh, wow.
22:12Okay.
22:13This is a big moment.
22:16Oh, my gosh.
22:24Musician Guy Sebastian is in Kanpur, India.
22:29Where he's trying to unravel the mystery of his mother Nellie's ethnicity.
22:35He's meeting writer and translator Gillian Wright, who has Nellie's DNA results.
22:40We start off with England.
22:42So England, 23%.
22:45So she's quite English.
22:47And 13% Scottish and Irish.
22:49And then Western and Southern India.
22:56Wow, there's quite a lot.
22:58We're looking 18% just there.
23:01And then there's one more.
23:02Bengal, 10%.
23:03If we add it up, that's 28% of your mum, pure Indian.
23:08Almost a third.
23:09Yes.
23:10My gosh.
23:11But nothing from the Portugal area.
23:14Wow.
23:15I've been told there is quite a bit of Portuguese in her blood, but there is none.
23:20This is going to be big news to my mother.
23:22Really big news.
23:23And in fact, to call yourself Portuguese was a euphemism for Anglo-Indian.
23:28It was a way of concealing their Anglo-Indian-ness.
23:32Yes.
23:32Okay.
23:33That explains a lot.
23:34Explains a lot.
23:37And, well, let's go look at her parents also.
23:40Okay.
23:40So this is Malcolm and Mary.
23:42My grandfather is, well, mainly European, but then he's got some Indian as well.
23:47So he's 5%.
23:49So somewhere back in the Richard Neal line of things, the family had intermarried.
23:55So your grandmother, so she had quite a lot.
23:59She is the Bengal.
24:00She is the Deccan.
24:01Yeah.
24:02And she is a fair amount of the Gujarat.
24:05So Mary was quite Indian.
24:07I think this may be the reason why the family thought he was marrying beneath him.
24:11Deciding to marry for love.
24:12Yeah.
24:13A local Indian woman.
24:14And had consequences.
24:17Had very big consequences.
24:19This is very revealing.
24:34My mum's Indian.
24:37She's really going to love the clarity.
24:42I feel like with identity you get a sense of ownership when you know exactly what you are.
24:52Surprising Guy at his grandparents' resting place.
24:54Hello.
24:55Are his Auntie Pamela and her husband Raja.
24:58Oh my gosh.
25:00Auntie Pamela.
25:01They live in Kanpur and Guy has never met them.
25:04My mum said she had a surprise.
25:06I didn't know it was actually people.
25:09Hello.
25:11Very good.
25:12God bless you too.
25:13It's so good to see you.
25:15And this is the grave.
25:17Grandmama.
25:18Grandmama.
25:18Your mum's mum.
25:19That's your grandmother.
25:21In loving memory of Mrs. Mary Neal.
25:24Born in 1923.
25:26Died.
25:261976.
25:27She was so young.
25:2953.
25:32Love you mum.
25:37Wow.
25:38Your grandparents' blessings are with you guys.
25:41Don't cry.
25:42Yes.
25:43My mother's a dream for me to be here.
25:49We will go to that grave.
25:50Yes.
25:51We will go see Malcolm's grave.
25:54So this is where my grandfather is buried.
25:58Mr. Malcolm Neal.
26:00Our father in loving memory.
26:03Born 1910.
26:05Died 1973.
26:06Love you dad.
26:11Hi.
26:12Emma.
26:12Look who I found.
26:13See.
26:14Your surprise.
26:15And what a beautiful surprise it is.
26:17Yes.
26:18Yes.
26:18Yes it is.
26:19I will treasure this forever.
26:23We'll be together once again baby.
26:25Don't cry.
26:27Don't cry.
26:28Just seeing you holding him like that.
26:35Don't cry baby.
26:36Don't cry baby.
26:37Don't cry baby.
26:37Don't cry baby.
26:37Don't cry baby.
26:37Don't cry baby.
26:37Well I've learned so much ma.
26:39I can't wait to tell you.
26:40I can't wait.
26:46A lot to process today.
26:49A lot of the feeling is.
26:52And I don't want to say it but it's sadness.
26:56one thing that's become very clear you can lose connection so easily just from one generation to
27:00the next prejudice played a huge role in my mum's story being here in India I don't know just every
27:22everything has has felt really spiritual you know I've discovered a lot that who I am about who my
27:32mum is my mum's bad to turn 67 and for the first time in her life she's getting clarity on
27:41who she
27:42actually is she's gonna be I think very empowered having uncovered his mother's Indian heritage Guy
27:56now sets his sights on solving the enigma of his paternal family history he's on his way to Sri
28:06Lanka formerly known as Salon the island was first colonized by the Portuguese in 1505 and
28:16subsequently by the Dutch and the British in 1972 the Republic adopted the name Sri Lanka which in
28:26Sanskrit means resplendent island on my dad's side I don't really know anything past my grandfather
28:35Guy Theodore Sebastian intent on investigating his paternal heritage beyond his grandfather and
28:44namesake Guy video calls his dad Ivan in Adelaide I've got your emails and all the photos and everything
28:53yeah I haven't really looked at them properly yet I've got this photo that's my dad your grandfather
28:59Guy Theodore Sebastian that's dad in his St John Ambulance Brigade uniform he did a lot of work for them
29:07and for the
29:08Scouts movement as well you and your dad were quite close right yes we were he was always very encouraging
29:15I
29:15always had some of the nicest things to say descended from the Tamils of Sri Lanka Guy's father Ivan Sebastian
29:24was born in 1953 in
29:26Malaysia to Felicitas Thesimala Thambaya and Guy Theodore Sebastian my dad joined the Malaysian dental service that's why you guys
29:38wanted me to become a dentist right the same way that he wanted me to be a dentist yeah
29:42uh here's the other one that's me and dad that's the ship that I had taken to India to further
29:49my studies you know dad was always encouraging me you know to study and to further our education
29:56whilst I was studying geology in my second year uh dad met with an accident and he passed away but
30:04because I was undertaking my exams at that time my family did not disclose
30:10yeah they didn't tell you about it yeah yeah they didn't tell me of his death it was what three
30:14months after after he had passed away that I found out and it was quite devastating for me when I
30:20found out they were quite nervous that it might you know it might disrupt my studies and I might not
30:25you know continue studying and completing my education you know which is what dad wanted me to achieve you know
30:33that's pretty rough yeah yeah
30:35I realized dad I realized dad I've never asked you why why did you name me after your dad
30:41oh yeah yeah the reason I because I was so proud of my dad because of his
30:53of his achievements and his contribution to to the community at large you know I mean
31:07and
31:07and
31:11and
31:12and
31:13and I wanted you to
31:16you know
31:18to have his name and
31:22and because I was so proud of him and I
31:25and I'm proud of you too I mean
31:27for what you are doing for your community for the community here and
31:31and
31:31and he taught us
31:32you know
31:34some very very valuable you know
31:38attributes like you know being humble and
31:42standing up for what you believe in
31:43I think that was something that he
31:46that he cherished a lot
31:49and these are things I hope that I can pass on
31:51we're very proud of you dad you've been a great example for us
31:55thank you
31:57do you know anything about
32:00your Sri Lankan family or
32:02uh
32:03I mean the only thing I knew about my grandparents
32:07that's
32:08the photo that you
32:10that you've got there
32:11that one there yes exactly
32:13uh
32:14they were very proud Tamils
32:17Guy's great-grandparents were both born in Jaffna Sri Lanka
32:21married Justina Francis in 1904
32:25and Bestiam Pillay Sebastian in 1892
32:29in his early 20s
32:31Guy's great-grandfather migrated to Malaysia
32:35that's when he started working for the British in the railways
32:39but my granddad he was very very very proud of his Tamil heritage
32:43and he brought my dad back to Sri Lanka
32:46to find a Tamil bride
32:48I know that my granddad Bestiam Pillay
32:50had a niece there
32:52who was actually a principal of a school
32:54he asked her to look for a bride for dad
32:58it wasn't my granddad's plan for my dad to marry my mum
33:03but when he saw mum for the very first time
33:05it was love at first sight
33:06and told his dad
33:08she's the one that he wanted to get married to
33:10and here is
33:11the marriage certificate
33:13Guy Theodore Sebastian
33:16marrying Felicitas Tese Malar Thambaya
33:20nationality Ceylon Tamil
33:22for both
33:24residents
33:26Chandikuli
33:27is that how I say it?
33:28Chandikuli yeah
33:31place of marriage St. Mary's Cathedral Jaffna
33:3412th of July 1950
33:36it'll be worthwhile for you to find out about granddad's niece
33:40wish you all the best
33:41love you dad miss you
33:42and stay safe
33:43don't eat too much spicy food
33:48yeah he doesn't cry very often
33:50he loved his dad
33:52and the fact that he chose to pass on that name to me
33:56the responsibility that I felt for the first time
34:00it took on a whole new life
34:03education was so important but
34:06you know so was grief
34:10there's a lot of talk about Bastion Pelay
34:12my great grandfather's niece
34:14and I'm interested to find out more about her
34:19Tracking the mysterious niece of his great grandfather
34:23Guy will be amazed to learn of her legacy
34:31in search of Tamil ancestors in Sri Lanka
34:35musician Guy Sebastian is traveling 400 kilometers north to Jaffna
34:40we're going from the very bottom to the very top
34:44Guy's bound for the heart of Tamil culture
34:47which dates back 3,000 years
34:50when Tamils migrated from southern India to the island nation
34:55a predominantly Sinhalese country
34:57the majority of Tamils live in the northern and eastern provinces
35:04in Jaffna Guy is en route to St. Mary's Cathedral
35:08welcome
35:09hello I'm Guy
35:10Yash nice to meet you
35:12there he's arranged to meet Melbourne-born Yashoda Sivukumaran
35:16oh my gosh
35:17co-founder of the cultural enterprise Nandi Collective
35:21and so 1915 my great grandfather
35:24Bastion Pelay moves to Malaysia
35:28what would have been the main cause of that?
35:32there's a few drivers
35:33one was education
35:36when the missionaries arrived in Ceylon
35:38in 1816
35:40there was a push for English education for Tamils
35:44and from that point onwards Jaffna especially
35:46had a really high level of English speakers
35:49people who were able to take on white collar jobs
35:52so your great grandfather
35:54he would have been quite a well educated man here in Jaffna
35:57and during that time when your great grandpa would have left
36:00there was a lot of white collar labour being exported to other parts of the world
36:05which was a big export for the British administration
36:09so education really was the catalyst to branch out of here
36:12yeah
36:14and there's been a lot of instability in this region
36:17and not that long ago Jaffna was a war zone
36:21the Sri Lankan Civil War
36:22which lasted from 1983 to 2009
36:26was primarily a conflict between the Sinhalese dominated government
36:30and the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Ilam
36:33also known as the Tamil Tigers
36:38the rebels sought to establish an independent state
36:41outside the fighting goes on
36:44during the 27 year war
36:46the United Nations estimate that 80 to 100,000 people were killed
36:54so the North was home to fierce fighting
36:56so a lot of damage, there was a lot of displacement
36:59and infrastructure was also damaged during that time
37:01so a lot of the main buildings were bombed
37:03Jaffna at that time was very different, you know
37:05so hence why people at that time were looking
37:08to flee
37:09to flee
37:10yeah, a lot of people left, there was mass migration
37:12there's 3 million Sri Lankans living outside of Sri Lanka
37:16wow
37:16yeah
37:17unfortunately this kind of task of tracing history
37:20becomes difficult because the old cacheri
37:22which housed a lot of documents
37:24were destroyed during the Civil War
37:26yeah, so it's been a difficult process
37:28finding out about my family
37:30it hasn't been, it hasn't been easy
37:32so there are a few hints
37:33so the play in Bastion Pillay indicates the Velala caste
37:38okay
37:39which sort of was a land-owning caste
37:41and a predominant caste here in Jaffna
37:44okay
37:44yeah
37:46and there's something I want to show you actually
37:48so this is an engagement photo of your great-grandfather
37:52Bastion Pillay
37:53and that's Bastion Pillay
37:56that's Bastion Pillay
37:57yeah
37:57he's a cool-looking cat
38:00and his wife, your great-grandmother
38:02this is Mary
38:03that's Mary, okay
38:04so she's photographed here with her mum
38:07and her sister
38:09and likely the two gentlemen at the back
38:11are relatives or siblings as well
38:14wow
38:14so this would have been taken shortly after
38:17he moved to Malaysia
38:19for his clerical job
38:21so Bastion Pillay moves to Malaysia
38:23and meets Mary
38:24yes, so they get married
38:26and Mary is part of the Jaffna Tamil community in Malaysia
38:30okay, so she's Tamil
38:31she's a Tamil lady, yes
38:33so he kept it in the Sri Lankan world of marriage
38:37and then obviously then they
38:39in the Jaffna world as well
38:40in the Jaffna world, yeah
38:41there's one more photo I want to show you as well
38:43okay
38:44so this was taken in 1929
38:47so that's Bastion Pillay
38:48holding your grandfather
38:50and that's Guy Theodore Sebastian
38:52so that's my great-grandfather holding my grandfather
38:56holding your grandfather, yeah
38:56so he would have only been about six or seven
38:59and this is in Malaysia
39:00yeah, this seems to be in Malaysia
39:02okay
39:02they're all very sharply dressed
39:05like it doesn't look like they're rural farmers
39:07they probably belong to
39:09sort of an upper middle class echelon of society
39:12and it was quite a prestigious thing to be sent outpost
39:15to a place like Malaysia
39:17wow
39:19my dad has told me about this niece
39:21I think she was a principal of a school or something like that
39:24so I need to learn more about her
39:26you should go to Tindipoli to find out more about her
39:29okay
39:29yeah, and I'll keep digging for more information about your family history
39:33I don't know, I feel really connected to history more than I ever have
39:41I'm here at these ruins where all these documents were lost
39:48I don't know, I'm still trying to remain hopeful
39:50that you can follow this trail to try and get some more information
39:55my biggest takeaway from Yash
39:57it was here
39:59education
40:02was survival
40:04and then that final puzzle I guess clicked for me
40:08you know, my dad getting emotional when he was talking about his father
40:11and not knowing about his death
40:15I've always thought
40:16oh man, what?
40:18you're not going to tell your son
40:20that his father has passed away because of his education?
40:24because you want him to finish his exams?
40:26that was crazy to me
40:28but then when you contextualise it
40:31education
40:34was an open door to bigger dreams
40:36and it was something that was very important
40:39and that was love to them
40:42as foreign as it seems to me
40:45it was love to them
40:59in pursuit of an ancestor thought to be the niece of his great-grandfather
41:04Bastiam Pillai Sebastian
41:07Guy's on his way to a renowned education institution in Jaffna
41:10Chundakuli Girls College
41:14he's arranged to meet Vice-Principal Sharmali Ramesh
41:17Vaanakam
41:19lovely to meet you
41:21I'm Sharmali, Vice-Principal of this college
41:23awesome, I'm Guy
41:25nice to meet you, yes
41:26come, let's go
41:28so this is Dr. E.M.T. Leambalam institution
41:32this building was named after Dr. E.M.T. Leambalam
41:36okay
41:38your great-grandfather's niece was the principal of this school
41:42of this school
41:43yes, she's Dr. Evangeline Mutamma Tiliampala
41:48so she was a doctor
41:49she was a doctor, she was a PhD doctor
41:52oh wow
41:53yes, and she served as a principal here
41:56from 1941 to 1950
42:01Chundakuli Girls College was established in 1896 by Mary Carter
42:05a 27-year-old British missionary
42:09at the behest of a father wanting equal education for his daughters
42:13this preeminent institution started with just nine girls on a veranda
42:19from its inception, the school broke away from restrictive traditions for girls
42:26with the motto forward, Chundakuli advocated for girls' freedom through education
42:34so I would like to show you the photograph
42:38oh wow, she looks very distinguished
42:42Chundakuli Girls College used to have principals of foreign countries
42:47so she's the first Sri Lankan principal
42:50oh okay
42:51yeah
42:51yeah, and she's the first Tamil principal also
42:55she was an incredible
42:56wow
42:57example
42:59Dr. Evangeline was from a village called Alepiti
43:04she lost her mother when she was young
43:07oh okay
43:08yeah
43:09and her father
43:10admitted her to Chundakuli Girls College
43:14in 1906
43:15when she was 11 years old
43:18so just imagine she was very young
43:20yeah
43:20she's lost her mother
43:21came to totally a new environment
43:23yeah
43:24so I can't imagine the resilience and the hope that she
43:30was building
43:30to become a, you know, educated woman
43:34wow
43:34and so she finished school here?
43:37yes
43:38she graduated from this school
43:40and then she travelled to India
43:42to complete her bachelor's and master's
43:46in the Allahabad University
43:48wow
43:49yes
43:49and then she went to Columbia University in 1922
43:54the US?
43:55yes, in the US, pursue her PhD
43:58wow, that would have been rare for a local Jafna woman
44:02of course
44:03amazing
44:03her PhD research
44:07was about
44:09sharks in the Indian Ocean
44:11okay, very interesting
44:13very interesting, it's totally different
44:15so
44:16she was a pioneer for the girls to take science education
44:21yeah
44:21she was amazing, right?
44:24yes, yeah, incredible
44:26and she was the first South Asian woman to obtain the PhD, doctoral
44:32you're joking
44:32incredible
44:33incredible, yes
44:34achievement
44:36wow, what an inspiration for these young girls that are here at this school
44:39that's true
44:41so she gets her doctorate in Columbia University
44:46Columbia University
44:46she comes back?
44:48yes, she came back
44:49then she joined as a principal
44:50okay, wow, a full circle
44:55so
44:56this is another photograph
44:58oh, yes
44:59very classy
45:01and she looks like she's
45:03got a strut
45:05and it looks like the 50s
45:07the 50s, yeah
45:08you can see the cars
45:09taken in the US
45:10yes, these are American cars
45:12incredible
45:13and there were articles about her
45:16oh, wow
45:17this is the Centenary Magazine
45:20Chundakuli Girls College
45:22Centenary Magazine
45:23wow
45:24so this is my guru and my mentor
45:26who is writing this?
45:28so that was written by Dr. E.S. Devasagayam
45:31I think one of her students
45:34and it says having been out of Jaffna for over 20 years
45:37she just seemed different from other Jaffna ladies
45:40but in her heart of hearts she was very much Jaffna
45:43she had acquired a few western habits
45:46which was natural those days for anyone living in the west for so long
45:49in the early 40s she might have been the only lady driver in Jaffna
45:54driving a two-seater Austin Tourer with a raised boot
45:58she would drive into town where other drivers would give her a white bird
46:03that's like when my wife is driving I tell people to
46:07she's a boss
46:09look at this
46:10wow
46:11is that her car?
46:12yes
46:12oh, this is the Austin Tourer
46:15okay, wow
46:17look at this horn here
46:19I can imagine Dr. Evangeline just driving through the main street of Jaffna
46:24honk, honk
46:25so you can see that she was a very modern lady
46:30and also she held teaching positions as lecturers and professorship
46:34in many prestigious institutions both in the U.S. and India
46:38yeah
46:39Dr. Evangeline used to advise young girls
46:43doesn't matter whatever you are learning
46:46whether it's from east or west
46:49you should draw the best
46:51from both worlds
46:53I think that is a good message
46:55it's a very good motto
46:56I can understand now why Bastien Pele, my great grandfather
47:00trusted her
47:01when I was told that she was an impressive woman
47:05I didn't expect this
47:07I mean we're sitting in a building that's named after her
47:10it's incredible
47:12if there's any way that I can help extend her legacy
47:16I would love to donate some instruments and things to the school
47:21maybe even some play equipment or something
47:23thank you
47:24thank you
47:24it would be an absolute pleasure
47:26oh how beautiful
47:27well it's lovely to meet you
47:31you know despite all the challenges of Lost Records
47:34we've learnt a lot about this special niece, Dr. Evangeline
47:38I can now go back to my father
47:41with this story of an incredible figure in our history
47:45but also in our ancestry
47:48wow, a lot to live up to
47:54travelling to the birthplace of his pioneering ancestor
47:59Guy will be delighted by one final surprise
48:07in Sri Lanka
48:09musician Guy Sebastian
48:10is making his way to the birthplace of his trailblazing ancestor
48:15Dr. Evangeline Thilayampalam
48:18he's heading to Alipiti
48:20a small coastal village on the island of Vilanai
48:23off the coast of Jaffna Peninsula
48:29Yashoda Sivakumaran has organised a surprise for him
48:33so I've found a few relatives for you to meet
48:35so here we have Mohan
48:38Mohan
48:38lovely to meet you, I'm Guy
48:40and Jay Rajan
48:42Jay Rajan
48:43Vanakam
48:44Vanakam
48:44so they're your relatives through Dr. Evangeline
48:47oh, it's Vanakam
48:48it's a pleasure to meet you
48:50they're meeting on a site
48:52donated by Dr. Evangeline
48:55for the building of a local church at Alipiti
48:57well, it's nice to meet you family
49:01should we look at the family tree together?
49:03yes, of course
49:04yes
49:04so Mohan and Jay Rajan are related to you through Dr. Evangeline
49:10but through her father's side
49:11and you're related to Dr. Evangeline through her mother's side
49:15okay
49:15so that's the relation
49:16yes
49:18one of three siblings, Dr. Evangeline was born in 1895
49:24her father, Thilayampalam, was a tax collector on the island of Delph
49:30tragically her mother Thangumar died young from asthma
49:35Dr. Evangeline's grandfather was an important man named Philip Udiya
49:55not everyone's best friend
49:57not everyone's best friend
50:10family oral history suggests that Dr. Evangeline's grandfather Philip Udiya
50:16was either a cousin or brother of Bastiampilay, Guy's great grandfather
50:23most probably brothers
50:25which makes your father and Dr. Evangeline second cousins
50:30okay
50:30because their grandparents were siblings
50:32my dad will be really thrilled to learn about
50:37all these new relatives, yeah
50:39so should we take a look at the pictures?
50:41this is a photo of Dr. Evangeline
50:44yeah
50:46and my mother-in-law
50:48oh this is your wife's mother
50:50mother, this is Mohan's father
50:53that's your father?
50:55okay
51:33your wife played piano?
51:35played piano, trainer of the band, Jeff Navarro
51:37wow
51:37a guy knows a thing or two about music
51:39yeah
51:39yeah
51:41and another thing
51:46and almost
51:47English education
51:49you know
51:57and it was such a tough time to do that
52:07you know
52:08a lot of women in that time weren't allowed to go overseas alone
52:11she was a real pioneer in many ways
52:17Dr. Evangeline passed away in 1976
52:20가족 nowadays
52:22Dr. Evangeline passed on to the McLaren
52:23Dr.idal did not cross the stage
52:23more than single employment
52:24that is only their far good
52:28you know
52:37Dr. Evangeline passed away after theirage
52:38Dr. Evangeline passed away
52:40Dr. Evangeline passed away along
52:45Dr. Evangeline passed away in着 the incident
52:49Dr. Evangeline passed away in Haiti
52:50my father that he's got some two very amazing, handsome relatives here in Jephna.
53:05They're really happy to know that they had a relation as well.
53:11I was doubtful that I would find any relatives here. Mohan and Jayarajan just reminded me of
53:18my uncles. As I was speaking to them I was thinking my dad's gonna love you guys. They felt like
53:25family.
53:30You know I got this word tattooed ages ago legacy and I'm looking at the legacy that all these
53:38ancestors left and it reminds me choices that we make in in one generation has impact.
53:48On our future generations.
53:55I couldn't have asked for more. Getting clarity on my mum's heritage and finding out that she's Indian.
54:03I think my mum is going to be really empowered. And my dad is going to get a sense of
54:11pride in his
54:12ancestry. And I guess a sense of belonging as far as this Sri Lankan culture goes.
54:23Everyone's just made me proud in my family and I'm lucky to be able to say that.
54:48I'm not looking forward to it to be honest.
54:53That's awful. And a gripping legacy. This is an incredibly rare document.
54:59that all children are bastards.
55:02That's awful. We are not visible .
55:05...
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