00:04Hi, Liam. Nice to meet you.
00:06Hi.
00:07My name is Dave.
00:08I have been asked to come and see you and have a chat with you.
00:11I hope that is okay.
00:13Do you know anything about why I am here and the mentoring I offer, or should I explain it?
00:19It would be great if you could go through it, please.
00:21No problem.
00:23Well, everything today is completely confidential.
00:26I'm here to listen and see if I can support you in any way.
00:30If you want to stop the conversation at any point, you can.
00:34So, would you like me to stay and you can tell me about yourself?
00:38Yes, I think it would be helpful.
00:40Perfect.
00:42To start, would you like me to tell you a little about myself,
00:46or would you prefer to just get straight into why I am here today?
00:49Well, I imagine the reason you are here today is because of my online activities and the mates I have.
00:54Yes, that's right, Liam.
00:56People are worried about you and want to make sure you are safe.
01:00Where did you meet these mates you are now talking to?
01:03I met them online playing video games a few months ago.
01:06What made you decide to talk to them?
01:09Since all my mates went to a different high school, I haven't really had a chance to play with anyone.
01:13One day, I was just chilling, and these guys started talking about boxing.
01:18I got involved in the conversation, and things just went from there.
01:21So, why are people concerned about your online friends if they are just into boxing?
01:26Well, they are also against Islam and immigration.
01:29How do you feel about that sort of thing?
01:31Well, at first I couldn't care less.
01:33Politics has always bored me.
01:35However, after listening to them, and seeing all the posts in the group chat, I kind of agree with what
01:41they are saying.
01:42But I do get confused.
01:44This group chat, what platform or app is it?
01:48Is it WhatsApp, Snapchat or something else?
01:50No, mate.
01:51That mainstream stuff is all controlled by the government.
01:54We use good apps which are properly encrypted.
01:57Some of the apps we have talked about are a bit concerning.
02:01I have heard on some, that you don't even need an email or a phone number or anything to sign
02:06up.
02:06All you do is create a username and you are good to go.
02:10I also understand that you can't actually find some of these groups.
02:15You have to be invited to join them with a link or a QR code.
02:18Is that right?
02:19Yeah, that's spot on.
02:21That's why we love it.
02:22It's properly secure.
02:23And the people in the groups you know have been interviewed, vetted, and so we trust each other.
02:28That's really interesting.
02:30Doesn't all that security worry you?
02:32It's a lot.
02:33And this is why people are worried.
02:35How did your mum and dad react when they found out about these online friends?
02:40Well, they didn't know for ages.
02:41We have a secret code to get the group to stop talking when someone walks in.
02:45Secret code?
02:47Could you explain that a bit more for me?
02:49In the conversation, if your mum walks in, you would say,
02:52M-O-S.
02:53What does that mean?
02:55MOZ stands for mum over shoulder.
02:57Wow.
02:58That is really smart, but also really worrying.
03:01Yeah, it goes to show we aren't all idiots, like what the media tries to say about us.
03:05That is very true.
03:07I speak to lots of people, and everyone is very switched on.
03:11So do you still play a lot of games with your far-right friends?
03:14Or are you just involved in their group chats now?
03:17I still game with them all the time.
03:18There are actually a few bigger groups that do gaming tournaments,
03:21and they always leave-stream the tournaments too.
03:24We always try and compete in those, to show off our skills.
03:28What do you think of the bigger groups?
03:30They are okay, but I prefer to just stay with the smaller group of individuals I met while gaming.
03:35I know and trust them.
03:37Why is that?
03:38Well, I just mainly like the gaming stuff.
03:40I can't be bothered with all the leafleting and marches that the big group promotes and does.
03:45They are just too busy, and I don't really like big crowds.
03:48I get uncomfortable.
03:49That is completely understandable.
03:52Have you ever been on an activity?
03:54I have been to a few activities, but you never know what they will be like.
03:58Sometimes people say there is going to be a lot of people there,
04:01and only a few people turn up, so that can be dangerous,
04:04as you might get into an argument with people who don't like our views.
04:07Other times there can be a lot of people there, but then things can become violent,
04:11and some people even attack the police.
04:13I don't like that.
04:15That sounds scary, from both points of view.
04:18The police are ordinary people, doing a job, to stop people getting hurt.
04:23Often you don't see that when you are involved.
04:26You're right, the far right tells you they are the enemy.
04:28But I can see what you are saying.
04:30That makes sense now.
04:32Often they are just there trying to stop trouble.
04:35Have you ever been involved with any of the bigger online campaigns?
04:38One group has asked me if I will make them some videos and memes.
04:42They actually use a popular meme called Pepe the Frog a lot.
04:45They asked me if I could do some anti-small boats memes.
04:48Using Pepe, but I said I was busy.
04:50You did the right thing by not doing it.
04:53What made you say no?
04:55Well me, my old mates, used to always laugh at Pepe memes.
04:58Like the legit ones.
04:59It just doesn't feel right turning Pepe racist.
05:02So did your old mates not have the same views as your new far right ones?
05:05No, they would say things that aren't politically correct, but they weren't racist.
05:10I can see now what people are worried about you.
05:13They care and don't want you to get into trouble or put yourself in danger.
05:17By being in touch with people with extremist views, you are leaving a door open and just
05:22like they wanted you to create some memes, they will try to use you.
05:25I have seen this with others.
05:27People join the group, people are really friendly, but then they get asked to do things, and
05:32normally they do.
05:33I think this is to impress people, but then they go all quiet as they have moved to a
05:38more secretive group, and only those in it know what is going on.
05:41Does that worry you?
05:42Yes, that's why I have always said, I am busy.
05:45I have chatted with others who have gone into other groups, and they have said things change.
05:50The group promotes extremism, and racism, and they get you to do things.
05:55I don't want to do that.
05:57That's a wise move.
05:59The reason I do this job is because I used to be involved myself, so I understand how people
06:05become involved, do things, get used, and then what it is like when something goes wrong,
06:11and when you want support, everyone is gone.
06:14Wow, I didn't know that.
06:16So you understand, that's brilliant, I feel a lot more at ease now.
06:20Do you still game?
06:22Not as much as I used to.
06:23I think the things you and others have said have made me think, and now I can see the
06:28dangers.
06:28I really appreciate people listening to me, hearing what I have to say, but then offering
06:33me alternatives, which makes sense and this has really helped me.
06:37Everyone who is helping you is doing it, because they want you to be safe.
06:41Being active online in a group with people who promote extremism is really dangerous, and
06:47by being online with them, you are putting yourself in danger.
06:51I can see that now.
06:52Can you help me get out of this?
06:54Yes, we can.
06:56What I will do is talk to some people about the fact that you want to come away from extremist
07:01influence and get you the support you need.
07:03That's amazing.
07:04Thank you so much.
07:05That's no problem.
07:07That's what I am here for.
07:08Thank you so much.
