00:02Good evening everyone, I am Rukit Sharma, clinical psychologist at Wim Hans.
00:08I welcome you all to the fifth talk in the series on psychoanalysis.
00:13The present talk is on psychoanalysis of trauma, loses fate but pain remains.
00:23So since I guess that we all must have experienced some trauma or at least one trauma in our life,
00:35generally many more traumas than one obviously.
00:39So I would really expect a lot of inputs from your side as we go on and we kind of
00:46touch upon various facets.
00:49So first of all let's start with this, that what is trauma?
00:55What can be called as trauma or what is felt as trauma?
01:00So anyone would like to comment on that to share your reflections that what is trauma?
01:13Or how would you define trauma, relate to trauma?
01:22Anything which upsets you.
01:24Anything which upsets you. Very right. So something that upsets you.
01:28So anyone else?
01:30Breaks you down.
01:32Breaks you down.
01:33Breaks you down. So it is something intense which breaks you down.
01:38Right.
01:39It is trauma.
01:40Yeah.
01:41The trauma that might not set you to step inside you.
01:47Probably not experiencing.
01:49Right. So like something has happened you are not experiencing the full intensity.
02:00of that.
02:07Right.
02:08Anything you ever say.
02:10Yeah.
02:11Unexpected.
02:12Unexpected.
02:15Unexpected.
02:16Something very subtle.
02:17Very true.
02:18And all of a sudden you feel that your device.
02:24Right.
02:24Right.
02:24So it is something that really shakes you down.
02:28That thing.
02:29You were saying something.
02:30Unexpected.
02:31Intense.
02:32Negative.
02:33Unexpected.
02:34Negative.
02:35Right.
02:36Right.
02:36So yeah.
02:37I am not sure but is it always something that comes from outside.
02:41Something that is externally inflicted.
02:44Either by accident or something that was intending.
02:51You were asking or...
02:52I am not sure, so I am speculating.
02:56You are speculating that is it always something external?
02:59Yeah.
03:00Okay.
03:01That is a very important question.
03:03Because if you look at the standard definitions of trauma, they do take this into account.
03:12It is some intense happening which has an external source to it.
03:19Right.
03:20Fine.
03:21So, here are my reflections on what is trauma and based on what psychology says.
03:27Which is not very different from what you have said.
03:30Because that is what is there in the nutshell.
03:34So, first of all, I think when we talk about trauma, you want the light to be lit?
03:42Can someone just switch off the light?
03:46That's fine.
03:46So, fine.
03:48We can maybe have one or two lights off.
03:50Not all, right?
03:52Yeah.
03:53If you could point that we can have two swine off.
03:56Yeah.
03:58If they can do that.
03:59Right.
04:00So, the first thing is that, who defines trauma?
04:03Now, that is very important.
04:04You know, like, someone comes, someone walks up and says that today someone told me that you are a fool.
04:12And I am just devastated by that, you know.
04:15Someone comes and says that.
04:18Another person says, oh, come on.
04:19That is such a small thing, you know.
04:22To be called a fool.
04:23That person may have said that in a humorous way, in a light way.
04:27That person may have had a bad day.
04:28That person may have had a bad day.
04:29Why are you kind of, you know, taking it to her heart, you know.
04:32So, that's what it is.
04:33You know.
04:34Who is it that?
04:36You know, who is it who defines trauma?
04:39You know.
04:39So, because when we are talking about trauma, you know, it, it is intracyclic, but its sources
04:46and its definitions and its dynamics, they are very interpersonal kind of thing, you know.
04:52Someone says that, you know, that I remember a female client of mine who said that, you know,
04:59that I have devoted 20 years of my life to this family.
05:03You know, I have been working 7 days a week, 24 hours.
05:07That has been dramatic for me.
05:09The husband who sits next to her says, oh, really?
05:14That is what you are supposed to do.
05:17That is what every woman is supposed to do.
05:21You are exaggerating.
05:23You must be out of your senses.
05:25So, what is, who would really define trauma?
05:31You know, like, and that happens on a very large scale also.
05:34You know, like, we have something like this, you know, that we have a news flash that someone
05:40has been molested and there are already so many speculations onto it, you know.
05:45Maybe the victim, you know, so what was the character of the victim, you know.
05:52Did she know the perpetrator?
05:56Did she go along with the perpetrator by her own will?
06:00What happened?
06:02Can it be really called trauma?
06:04So, you see there are, like, you know, the moment one talks about trauma, there are too many speculations.
06:09So, first is this huge question that who defines trauma?
06:14Second is, as I said, that very sadly, you know, very sadly, and it's something very political,
06:22that the official definitions we have of trauma is, you know, that they include,
06:28many of these definitions include some kind of an external event, you know,
06:32that there has to be something very shocking devastating externally, you know,
06:35that if there is an earthquake, a very brutal sexual assault, you know, armed group violence,
06:44you know, that there has to be something that we have of trauma, you know.
06:47But, you know, if something is not happening, then it comes on a shaky ground and people say it,
06:53then can we really call trauma?
06:58Or should we focus more on the inner turmoil, you know, should we focus more on the experience
07:03of the one who says that I am traumatized, you know, is it more about that internal feeling, you know.
07:08I may have been, you know, someone may have just said a comment to me,
07:12but that has really broken me down, you know.
07:16So, you know, that can be traumatic, you know, for someone.
07:24And as I said, you know, around all these definitions, there are politics, you know.
07:30So, whenever we are talking about trauma, there always are politics, you know,
07:35because people are at times denying trauma, at times they are denying responsibility for trauma.
07:42So, there are various politics, you know.
07:44And to just show you this very, you know, a short clip, you know,
07:49on how it really operates, before we go on further.
07:56This is like a video which documents one of the first cases that, you know,
08:02the psychoanalyst Sigmund Freud had seen.
08:05And interestingly, what happened with his theories was that when he started working,
08:13he developed his perspective around trauma.
08:17But then later on, he came to a very sad position, which was a very politically motivated position,
08:23that he said that there isn't a real trauma in many cases, kind of thing, you know.
08:28And he actually went on to deny trauma of, you know, many of the people who went back to him.
08:35But then, you know, thankfully, nowadays there is a lot of awareness around trauma.
08:41So, I am just showing this brief clipping to just show that, you know,
08:46that how various politics operate around, you know, this trauma.
08:59like this, that's not a
09:01moment of speech.
09:02You know, this is walking, you know, this is not...
09:03You know, this is not a moment of speech.
09:05It's of course not being a part of the trauma.
09:07But then Freud's first case analysis, Dora, only lasted 11 weeks
09:13after which she rejected him.
09:15Freud was able to discover the concept of transference.
09:44Good morning, Dr. Freud.
09:46Good morning, Laura.
09:48It's rather cloudy outside today.
10:02Now let us begin in our usual way.
10:07Let your mind relax and begin your free associations by speaking about whatever comes to your mind without censorship.
10:20Well, that is easy because I know what I would like to talk about.
10:26I am depressed because I am angry with everyone in my life today.
10:30I am especially angry with my mother.
10:33I am stressed with sex and he just could not see the trauma of what she had gone through.
10:40So, that's the interesting thing, you know, that whenever someone comes and says that I have been traumatized, there are
10:47already so many people who are there to question that person's experience.
10:51You know, so many people who build it in the experience, who thrash it down, to question it, to reassure
10:57it, to change it kind of thing.
10:59You know, like, any idea why does this happen, you know, why is it that people rush to the bridge,
11:08you know, the moment someone comes and says that I have been devastated or traumatized or unfairly deterred, you know.
11:14Why does this happen, you know, why does this happen, yeah.
11:18It's an uncomfortable thing with negativity because we want to, in a way, have an illusion that everything is off
11:28the line pattern.
11:29It's something very negative or uncomfortable happening to me.
11:33It's a lot of tension inside us and that's something we can deal with.
11:37It's something that we can't show exactly, you know, like what happens is that because whenever we come across any
11:44narrative of trauma, that makes, that threatens to make us feel so helpless, you know, that someone could be devastated
11:52like that.
11:53That we just want to, you know, just want to kind of, we just want to do something with that,
11:59you know, we want to change it, we want to deny it, we want to make it a little rosy,
12:03you know, we want to make it a little comfortable for us ki,
12:05achha, yeh toh ho sakta tha, aisa ho ho ka, aisa khiya ho ka, you know, ya yeh, all the
12:11time we are thinking of escape routes from that very intensely negative feeling.
12:15And what happens is that in the process we re-traumatize the person a lot as this lady was, you
12:22know, buying a product.
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