00:31¿Es ahora el tiempo para que Europa realmente se involucra en paz, incluyendo hablar con Rusia?
00:39Lo que hemos visto en los últimos días es una más escala criminal de Rusia contra los civiles de Ukraine.
00:45Pero la verdad es que es también un signo de la otra falla de la guerra de Rusia contra la
00:50Ukraine.
00:51Rusia está perdiendo la tierra en la batalla, y vemos la increíble innovación de Ukraine cuando se trata de drones,
00:58por ejemplo, en la batalla.
00:59La guerra de Rusia es perdiendo la tierra diplomáticamente.
01:01Y esperaba por mucho tiempo que divida los europeos, que nos descansemos, que nos descansemos, que nos descansemos.
01:06Y vemos exactamente lo mismo.
01:07Y vemos Rusia perdiendo la tierra en todos lados diplomáticamente.
01:11Yo estaba en Armenia recientemente para la comunidad europea, donde también tuvimos el Estado de Estados Unidos.
01:18Un país más como Moldova, como Suecia y Finlandia, que quiere retirar el tutelaje de Rusia
01:26y que está más cerca de los europeos normas y normas.
01:29Y esto es la realidad de la guerra de Rusia contra la Ukraine.
01:32Si eso es el caso, como dices, y Rusia está siendo fortalecida por la resistencia de la Ukraine,
01:39¿es eso, entonces, un momento oportuno para la Europa de descansemos y decir que es hora de hablar?
01:44I know President Emmanuel Macron has previously called for this.
01:47No, you're right.
01:47President Macron has always said that when the time is right,
01:50we should have our own channel of communication with Russia
01:53because there's no reason to let the Americans alone at the negotiation table
01:58when, first and foremost, it's the security of Europe that's at stake.
02:01Now, you have to look at the reality, which is that Russia is not engaging seriously in diplomacy.
02:06It's not interested in the ceasefire and peace.
02:09It continues its escalation.
02:10So, I think the key now is to continue to provide our support to Ukraine.
02:14It's to continue to increase the pressure on Russia economically.
02:17So, just for clarity, I understand you're saying now is not the right time.
02:22And if so, doesn't it make sense for Europe, nonetheless, to be preparing for that time,
02:27including thinking of who could do this role, who has the credibility, the clout to speak to the Russians?
02:33No, look, I see that this debate is going on in the media and the commentary.
02:37And you're right that, once again, you know, Europeans need to take matters in their own hands.
02:41And so, there's no reason why we should let others negotiate on the behalf of the European security architecture.
02:48So, Europeans should be ready also to have their own diplomatic track, as President Macron has said repeatedly.
02:55But I would say our priority now, clearly, is to continue to support Ukraine, to continue to increase the pressure
03:01on Russia.
03:01In the meantime, Ukraine is pushing for swift progress on its enlargement path.
03:08The German Chancellor, Friedrich Merz, has recently proposed, of course, this kind of concept of associate EU membership.
03:15Participation in talks, but no real vote.
03:17How do you receive his proposal?
03:19Well, first look, you know, France supports Ukraine, Moldova's EU candidacy.
03:26And the next step for me, the immediate step, I would say, looking at the June European Council, is the
03:32opening of the first cluster of negotiations on fundamentals.
03:36Which, as you know, has been weaponized, instrumentalized by Viktor Orban before, for electoral domestic reasons.
03:43Now that he lost the elections, I think, you know, it should be based on the own merits.
03:47And each country should advance based on its reforms on the integration of the ITQ Communitaire.
03:52Ukraine and Moldova are ready to open the first cluster.
03:55So first, let's do this.
03:56And then it's important that we continue this work on the reforms.
03:59This is why, by the way, we've always said there's no shortcut.
04:03It's a long, it's a demanding process.
04:05It's about the fight against corruption, the independence of judiciary, the protection of minorities, etc., etc.
04:11Now, with that being said, you know, France was the country initially that pushed, you know, a few years ago
04:18for a more gradual form of accession where you integrate certain blocks of policies.
04:23And I understand also the need to send a message, to send a signal to the Ukrainian population that we
04:29want Ukraine down the road to be a member, a full member of the European Union.
04:33So we're ready to work also on how to, I would say, complete, how to perfect that gradual integration.
04:41And I think opening the debate and opening the conversation on this is positive.
04:45But Ukraine would say this is part of our security guarantees.
04:48This is actually about securing our future.
04:51And there are active efforts from the US, for example, to broker peace talks where these kind of details will
04:57be discussed.
04:59So I'll ask you again, does France have any ideas right now about how this kind of swifter integration of
05:05Ukraine could look?
05:06Are you open to some of the ideas that have been floated here in Brussels?
05:10Well, first, a couple of points on what you mentioned in your question, because you talked about the US diplomatic
05:15track.
05:15But let's be clear, it's not up to either the US or Russia or any actor external to the EU
05:21to decide who gets a membership within the European Union.
05:24That's a negotiation, a track, a reform process of Ukraine with the Europeans.
05:29And we're there to support Ukraine, we're there to accompany Ukraine.
05:32There is no shortcut for this accession.
05:34This is precisely, by the way, why the public opinion support the enlargement process in the candidate states.
05:41It's because they know that it's synonymous with anchoring the rule of law, with anchoring liberal democracy, with ensuring checks
05:49and balance, ensuring the fight against corruption.
05:51We've always been in support of more gradual accession where you don't, you know, switch off and off the light
05:57when you get in, but you progressively integrate certain blocks of policy.
06:01And that's work that we can shape that we can work on with Germany, with our partners, with the European
06:07Commission.
06:07I want to ask you about the EU's long term budget, which is under negotiation right now.
06:12And there's clearly a rift between the more frugal, let's say, states who want a smaller budget and those and
06:19an increasing number of countries who say we need more own resources and we need more joint borrowing.
06:24Where does France stand in the middle of this? And can you mediate between these two camps?
06:28Look, it's very clear when you look at the historical situation which we're in right now, that we need more
06:34investment capacities for Europe to strengthen our strategic autonomy in all the key strategic areas.
06:40When you think of defense, space, AI, quantum, green tech.
06:43This budget, you know, because when you're going to look at it through an accounting perspective, at the end of
06:49the day, it's a political and strategic conversation about the kind of Europe that we want for the next decade.
06:53In this context, yes, we need an ambitious budget.
06:57And it's true that it cannot rely solely on the contribution of the member states because there's not the fiscal
07:03capacity for this, let's be honest.
07:05So this is why, and France has said this repeatedly, a sine qua non condition for us for the adoption
07:11of the budget is having an ambitious package of own resources.
07:14I think what's important is that they don't weigh on European companies or household actors that are external to Europe
07:23and protect our single market, and that they don't duplicate national resources already existing.
07:28And then you mentioned common borrowing. Yes, look, you know, we did it in other critical moments for Europe. We
07:35did it, of course, during COVID with Next Generation EU. For the first time, we managed to overcome a taboo
07:40and pull together common debt to be able to invest into the recovery of our economy.
07:46But let's be honest, we also did it just a couple months ago with the 90 billion loan to Ukraine.
07:52And once again, we borrowed on the market with safe liquid assets from the European Union, there's actually a lot
07:58of demand on markets for assets coming from the European Union, which is a reliable, trusted financial partner.
08:04And I think when you look at areas like defense, like space, or like AI, where we're under investing, we're
08:11under leverage compared to the US, for example, this is where it would make sense indeed, to once again borrow
08:17on the markets and inject investment massively to support our own innovators, our own companies.
08:23Your president Emmanuel Macron has been pushing for this, of course. In February, he did say at the previous summit,
08:29which was held here in Belgium, that there needs to be a plan now to kind of revive Europe's competitiveness
08:34by June. That's really around the corner. It's next week. So has progress been made in terms of convincing others
08:42that euro bonds, joint borrowing is the way to go? And if not, could France move along with like minded
08:49countries despite not having the support of the 27?
08:51And I think when you have a core group of member states that want to move forward, that want to
08:56deepen their integration and cooperation on these issues, then, you know, at some point, we should be able to move
09:02forward and create momentum for others to join.
09:04Now, on your first question, has there been a plan and move? Yes, because the commission actually proposed a plan
09:10that's drawing on the Draghi and Letta reports called One Market, One Europe, that precisely gives, I think, an ambitious
09:16legislative agenda for the next couple of years, to deepen a single market, whether that's on reducing our internal fragmentation,
09:23with the saving investment union, the 28th regime, whether that's on simplifying our norms, and we need to accelerate the
09:30work that we've done with the different omnibuses,
09:32whether that's on investment, whether that's on investment, whether that's on investment, and we mentioned on the MFF, we need
09:36to protect our industry more. You know, let's don't be naive. The Americans do it. The Chinese do it. We're
09:41facing tariffs from the US. We're facing more aggressive trade practices coming from China with subsidized over capacities on steel,
09:51on EVs. They're coming and they're having a very destructive impact on our industry.
09:56And that means also tougher measures against China to address these over capacities that you mentioned?
10:02Yes, because at the end of the day, you know, we're for trade, but we're for reciprocal trade, fair trade,
10:07on a level playing field. But we can see that the time is running out. It's 10,000 jobs that
10:12are destroyed, 10,000 manufacturing industrial jobs destroyed every month in Germany, because of the competition.
10:18But do your German counterparts see this as a serious stretch? Are you confident that seeing it in the same
10:23way as you're seeing it?
10:24Look, I think there's a realization that's coming across everywhere in Europe. For a long time, you know, we thought
10:29that it was safe to export to China. And now we see, on the contrary, that you see a technological
10:36know-how that's increasing in China with the support also of the state.
10:40And at the end of the day, you know, we have 450 million people. We have a strong single market.
10:46There's every reason to be optimistic about the power that a single market can represent, but only if we're able
10:52to leverage it.
10:52And we have all the tools at our disposal, whether that's safeguard clauses, whether that's tariffs, whether that's by European
10:59clauses that we can put with the industrial accelerator, for example.
11:02So now the key is not to be naive, look at what others are doing and protect ourselves as well.
11:08You know, look at the U.S. The U.S., they didn't have to wait for Trump to do the
11:12Buy America Act. They didn't have to wait for Trump to do the Inflation Reduction Act, which is a massive...
11:15So has Europe been moving too slowly, Minister, on this?
11:17Yes, I think so, because I think that we're still maybe sometimes the last evangelist of a religion that no
11:24one is practicing anymore. You know, the religion of unfettered free trade, of the WTO, which clearly China and the
11:32U.S. have abandoned a long time ago.
11:35So, you know, the commitment to this international law, international trade law, it's important, but you have to be strong
11:41to be respected. You have to be able to defend your interest as well. And you have to be able
11:46to use all the tools that you leverage, especially to impose just very basic principle of fairness and reciprocity.
11:54Okay, Minister Adat, thank you so much.
11:56Thank you.
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