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Watch NAMTalks by NAMTECH on how industry expectations are shifting for students and professionals, and what skills, mindset, and preparation matter most for career growth.
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00:00Manufacturing has become both smart and digital. Would you like a career in it?
00:04Industry today needs a combination of technical knowledge as well as managerial capability.
00:10If you are a techno-manager, you have a great career ahead.
00:13India is not the same as it was in 1980s.
00:16Then how can the institutes and the curricula design in 1980s be effective today?
00:20If you are looking for a leadership position in manufacturing industry,
00:24your engineering degree may not be enough.
00:26The leaders who will take our country to Viksit Bharat in 2047 need to be trained today.
00:39Hi and welcome to another edition of NAMM Talks.
00:44Today we are discussing whether Indian industry needs techno-managers
00:49as opposed to the traditional engineers and management talent.
00:54We have seen that there are several engineers who are very good in their domain skills,
01:01but lack the management understanding to grow in their career.
01:06On the other hand, there are various management candidates who lack the technological domain expertise,
01:14as well as cannot keep pace with the changes in the technology that their industry is going through.
01:21Lastly, I also believe that India does not have a talent shortage but has an employability gap
01:28because a lot of students are falling through the cracks between being a fully trained engineer and being a manager.
01:37Given this context today, the question is difficult and uncomfortable.
01:42Is it true that the education for technology students and for management students is widening and we need to come
01:51up with a new solution?
01:53To answer these questions today, I have two distinguished experts with me on today's version of NAMM Talks.
02:00I have Deva Proto Ghosh, Partner KPMG.
02:04Thanks Nandini for having me on this NAMM Talk.
02:07And I also have Sandeep Achantani, Director of Technical Education at NAMM Tech.
02:13Thank you. Thanks again.
02:14So, Dev, do you think across industry sectors these days, companies are looking for technology and managerial talent as two
02:24separate verticals or what's your take on it?
02:26So, I think Nandini, in today's age, I think all recruitment managers are looking for a candidate who have both
02:32the skills together.
02:33And it has become essential also, both from a candidate's career perspective as well as from the industry's long term
02:40perspective.
02:41Now, if you ask me why, the reason is that the world has become more complex.
02:46Only one set of knowledge like a specific managerial knowledge which will help you to manage certain aspects of work
02:52or only technical knowledge which will help you to progress this much in your career is not going to work
02:57going forward.
02:58If you have both the skill set together, it will help you grow in the career and also match the
03:04pace of the current technology come managerial need.
03:07Sandeep, you know, academically, we are still teaching engineering graduates and management graduates separately.
03:15Do you think this hurts the career opportunities for young graduates?
03:19Well, thanks you brought this up. This is actually a very important question for the students of today.
03:23Yeah.
03:24And I think, yes, it is actually impacting their career growth.
03:29See, gone are the days where engineers used to design and make and managers used to plan and supervise, right?
03:36Most industries and most organizations have integrated work roles.
03:40Secondly, the ones that are really growing very fast, which is the startups, they have roles which basically cut across
03:47various different categories.
03:49And our legacy curricula, both on the engineering side and MBA side, they seem to be designed as if these
03:56two people are never going to meet each other in time.
03:59Now, that is actually not the case, obviously.
04:01And what we see is that most organizations end up training engineers for six months to one year to even
04:08do the basic level of engineering roles which have little bit of managerial content.
04:14Most engineers eventually go for management education if they really want to grow, right?
04:19Whereas what is required is an integrated approach and that is exactly what NAMTECH is trying to do.
04:25In fact, that is the thought behind most of our program designs which are also guided by the industry requirements.
04:32And hence, I believe that the integrated approach is the way to go for future.
04:37So Dave, do you think a techno manager will have a better career in today's scenario as compared to somebody
04:46who is a traditional engineer or is a manager in the traditional sense?
04:51And as compared to somebody who has, say, done their engineering and then gone ahead to do an MBA?
04:57I would say this that in, say, the last 20 years, the best academic people always tried to do the
05:06third.
05:07So they were always very good at engineering, but they realized that when they have to grow in the organization,
05:14it is always best capped with a good MBA degree.
05:18But today we are preparing this breed of techno managers.
05:23So what do you have to say about that?
05:25See, let's look at it from a pure play engineer perspective.
05:29What happens after a certain point, their career growth is stopped because most of the roles are managerial roles.
05:36This happens not only in core sector, but in IT sector also, where if you are an engineer after a
05:42point of time, your progression is not much there.
05:45But what about subject matter experts, for example?
05:48Then you have to remain in that subject matter area itself.
05:51You cannot move to a senior leadership role.
05:53I'll give you another example from my own organization.
05:57So I am a partner.
05:59Now, if I am going to client only from a business perspective and commercial perspective, there is no value to
06:05that.
06:06Unless and until I talk about my core understanding of the subject, technical aspects of it, then only they will
06:13value you.
06:14So if you look at both of them for a pure play engineer or a pure play management graduate.
06:21So they get stuck after a certain point of time.
06:24A techno managerial person will definitely have that advantage that they will have proper understanding of business in terms of
06:32P&L, in terms of commercials, in terms of profitability.
06:35While also understanding their domain.
06:38While also understanding their domain.
06:38While also understanding their domain.
06:41And bringing the value to their clients or within the organization itself.
06:46Yeah.
06:46And it will be a great combination of showcase example, I would rather say.
06:52that how both the aspects can help you in your career and can bring in the value best from your
06:58organization perspective.
06:59I actually fully agree with it.
07:02I think that the rigor in itself, the technical expertise itself can only produce specialists, but not leaders.
07:14Yeah.
07:15Whereas an integrated approach like you are talking about techno commercial and all.
07:20That makes the rigor more usable and more useful for the organization.
07:25Then Sandeep, would you say that the BTEC plus MBA model and I'm asking this question more for parents.
07:31Because I think in India, it is the parents who push the kids into doing this kind of a combination
07:37education, right?
07:39So do you think that will slowly fade out?
07:42First of all, the way the curricula are designed currently, as I mentioned previously also.
07:48What we are trying to teach in the engineering curriculum is pure, pure technical.
07:53Without any linkage to the context where that technical knowledge is going to be used.
07:59Like Dave mentioned, the person who is going to work on the manufacturing line should understand what a two hour
08:07production stoppage,
08:09what kind of PLN impact it means.
08:11Yeah.
08:11Or when a sudden order comes in because market needs that, what does that change over on the shop floor
08:17means?
08:18Exactly.
08:18Exactly.
08:18Or even while we are designing, are we designing just to be the best or we are designing to a
08:26product that is actually sellable?
08:28Right.
08:29And meet market requirements.
08:31And meet market requirements.
08:32Right.
08:32So these are the kind of things that the engineer must understand.
08:36At the same time, look at our typical MBA curriculum.
08:39I mean, when I graduated out of IM Calcutta, I am sure you all have experienced that.
08:44Most of the topics were being taught primarily on the marketing, finance side of it.
08:50Which was definitely an additional knowledge that we as engineers did not possess.
08:55But it was still lacking the context of engineering.
08:59Correct.
09:00If I may say so.
09:01Yeah.
09:01Right.
09:02Yeah.
09:02So while the model itself will not fade, but it will sort of metamorphose into a more integrated approach where
09:13they will actually have a continuity.
09:16Right now that there is a break in continuity as if all MBAs are going to join Dave's team in
09:22KPMG and never work in any industry.
09:25And probably KPMG, which also needs that technical expertise, which they mentioned about.
09:33Right.
09:33So I think somewhere that silo approach will has to be broken down and it will break.
09:40So in effect, both the educations are good, but the whole sequential thing is a delaying the usefulness of that
09:52person to the organization.
09:54And second, this break in continuity also creates a very different kind of career path, which current industry may find
10:04it hard to support.
10:05Exactly.
10:06Exactly.
10:07And before Dave sort of comes in, traditionally, I remember manufacturing and marketing people were always at loggerheads.
10:14Because this was never sort of told to each other that you have to do what the company needs to
10:22succeed, say in the marketplace or build revenues or, you know, bring in the right amount of bottom line as
10:29well.
10:30So how would you add to what Sandeep said?
10:32I think I fully agree with what Sandeep said.
10:35I still personally don't feel that B.Tech MBA model will be completely gone.
10:40It will take some time because some people might still prefer for it.
10:43Or there is still value in it.
10:44There is still value in it.
10:46But if you look at the parallel model or equivalent model that is evolving, most of the IITs, including IIT
10:54Kanpur, IIT Jammu, some of the triple IITs, they have joined hands with IIMs.
10:59Yeah.
11:00And they are launching five-year integrated program of engineering and MBA.
11:05Yeah.
11:05Namtech is also focusing on that.
11:07And then there are institutes like IIM Mumbai or IIM Calcutta who has multi-university or multi-institutional program which
11:16focuses on technical aspects as well as the managerial aspects.
11:19Right.
11:20So that trend is picking up.
11:21And once the industry already recognizing it, and my belief is going forward, industry would need more such kind of
11:29people.
11:30My belief is there will be a transition phase.
11:33Probably for now this B.Tech plus MBA model will continue.
11:35But once the transition is over, I think more and more people will adopt for that.
11:39And more techno managers, therefore, will be required by the industry.
11:43Correct.
11:43Just to add on to that, there are some examples from MIT.
11:47They have a global leadership program that combines engineering and managerial inputs.
11:53It is taught by industry leaders, both from technical side and management side.
11:59Yeah.
12:00You have Singwar University in China, which is considered MIT of China.
12:06Exactly very similar program that they are running successfully.
12:09So the trend is clearly visible.
12:12Yeah.
12:12So I think that is the way to go.
12:14Way to go.
12:15Sandeep, that brings us to a very important question then.
12:18How do youngsters choose or rather even evaluate and then choose programs and institutions which will take them down this
12:29path and also offer the best career opportunities?
12:32What I would say, Nandini, first of all, it's very important for students to understand that degrees will start losing
12:43their importance.
12:44The industry has already started and increasingly continue to focus on the capability that an institution develops.
12:53While assessing any institutions, students should focus on whether the institute is offering certain specialization as electives or these are
13:05basic part of the program itself, for example.
13:20Right.
13:21So the design is constantly going back to the industry.
13:24Yeah.
13:24Even on the industry immersion or project should not just be towards the end of the curriculum.
13:32There should be an immersion of industry throughout the program.
13:36Right.
13:37And all this, I am saying it again from the experience of the way NAMTECH programs are designed.
13:42All the programs are from design and inception itself guided by specific technology sector players or specific industry sector players.
13:52Right.
13:53Right.
13:53The programs are actually designed to create the competencies that are required by those sectors.
14:01Right.
14:02Our master's program, for example, there's a master's program in smart manufacturing and management.
14:08There's a program on robotics and management.
14:12There's a program on semiconductor manufacturing.
14:15Right.
14:15These are targeted programs, very, very focused.
14:18And that is what is the kind of program students should actually go for.
14:24Right.
14:25Which is experiential, which is aligned to the industry and it is actually bringing out the right kind of competencies.
14:35So basically don't go for just the brand name or the degree.
14:39Choose an institution that is going to make you into a professional that you really want to aspire for.
14:45So thank you, Dave.
14:47And thank you, Sandeep, for bringing up such nice instances and perspectives.
14:52I really enjoyed this conversation today of NAMP Talks with the two of you.
14:58I promise you that, you know, we will bring in more such voices and more such interesting concepts for you
15:05to listen to in the future.
15:07Till then, take care and keep listening to NAMP Talks.
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