- 2 weeks ago
Really good Seconds Out interview.
Barry McGuigan discusses Daniel Dubois brutal TKO win over Fabio Wardley.
Barry McGuigan discusses Daniel Dubois brutal TKO win over Fabio Wardley.
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00:00Four seconds out, pleasure to be in the company of boxing legend
00:02and great boxing mind, Barry McGuigan.
00:04Give me some time on a Sunday.
00:06Barry, we just witnessed what was a brilliant fight
00:08that will go down in history between Fabio Waterley
00:10and Daniel Dubois.
00:11Just talk me through what you saw last night.
00:14Well, it was brutal.
00:18It was a brutally tough fight.
00:20I mean, both of them showed tremendous courage.
00:25It wasn't a brilliant technical spectacle,
00:29but as far as sort of brute force and punches landed
00:34and damage done, it was like incredible, incredible.
00:38And Waterley showed unbelievable resilience.
00:44I mean, he took some of the, I mean, those,
00:47I mean, we had Dubois at one stage
00:50and we know that he is such a heavy, thudding, brutal puncher
00:56and everything just eviscerates you with that power.
01:00And, you know, he's very, very heavy handed.
01:03You could see it on Waterley's face.
01:06He, you know, he, I mean, you've seen him before,
01:09you know, I watched him in the other fights against Clark
01:12and, you know, many other fights,
01:14but he never showed that type of pain before.
01:17He looked to be in, you know, really in pain throughout the fight,
01:24particularly the second half of the fight.
01:26I thought he would win in the later stages of the fight.
01:31I thought he may have been hurt and dropped and wobbled possibly,
01:35but I believe, you know, my prediction was that he would come back
01:38and get on top and that he would win it in the last third of the fight.
01:45But, you know, you have to hand it to Dubois,
01:48despite the fact he's lost twice to Usyk
01:51and he's lost to Big Joe.
01:54He's come back and he's improved
01:56and he's just got more resilience.
02:00And I don't think he's an awful lot different fighter than he was,
02:04you know, four years, three, four years ago,
02:07but he's just got better at going the distance
02:10and he's got more experience.
02:14But what a fight, and what a brutal fight.
02:16It was just, like, really, really severely tough.
02:21And, you know, Wardley was very badly marked up
02:24and, you know, shaken.
02:27I mean, you know, I hate to level blame on anybody,
02:30but ultimately the corner is responsible for their fighter.
02:36And, you know, they are literally dealing with his,
02:40they're dealing with his future and his life.
02:44I just, for me, they left it three rounds too late.
02:49They should have pulled him out.
02:51Whatever chance he had of coming back and having a rematch
02:55and maybe winning the rematch, I think,
03:00that was lost in those last three rounds
03:03of where he took brutal punishment.
03:05I just think, I don't know, after a beating like that,
03:09I mean, I don't want it to sound extreme,
03:11but you look at it and you've been in the game a long time
03:15and you watch those sort of fights
03:16and you experience what guys,
03:21how they recover from fights like that.
03:23And, you know, we saw the external damage,
03:26but we cannot tell the internal damage that was done,
03:29you know, to the brain and that sort of stuff.
03:32And, I mean, he took a phenomenal beating
03:36and he showed unbelievable powers of recovery in the past,
03:41but you do not get hit like that by Daniel Dubois
03:45and come back.
03:46You just don't.
03:48And so it was.
03:50Yeah, Barry, let's just get into that a little bit.
03:51I do see a statement from Shane saying that
03:53he thought that the fight should have been pulled.
03:55I did also see a statement from Ben Davison saying that,
03:58you know, he got criticised for throwing the towel in for Lee Wood,
04:01but also criticised for not throwing the towel in early enough
04:03for another fight.
04:04Is it just kind of a bit of damned if you do,
04:06damned if you don't?
04:07And the other side of it too is,
04:08there's another guy who could have stopped the fight
04:10in the form of the referee who didn't do that either.
04:13Yeah.
04:14Yeah.
04:14Yeah, the faster is,
04:15he's a very,
04:18he's one of the better referees
04:19and he's been criticised in the past
04:21for stopping the fights too early.
04:23And now he's been criticised for stopping the fight too late.
04:27But ultimately that,
04:29you know,
04:29you know,
04:31as a corner man,
04:32you know,
04:33when you're as a coach,
04:35you're supposed to know,
04:37you're a fighter,
04:38you're supposed to know when,
04:40you know,
04:41you know,
04:42I don't,
04:43I don't want to level the blame on anybody.
04:46But what I'm saying is,
04:47as,
04:47as a corner man,
04:48your ultimate job is to protect your fighter.
04:52That is your ultimate job,
04:54you know,
04:55and you can know when he's fighting great,
04:57you know,
04:57when he's swinging and you know,
04:58when he's in the groove,
04:59you also know when he's not in the groove,
05:02but you know when he's taking punches
05:05and you're taking heavy shots,
05:07one after the other,
05:08you know,
05:08round after round after round
05:10and thinking,
05:11you know,
05:12he's come back in the past.
05:13You don't come back from no sort of shots.
05:15You just don't.
05:17And,
05:19you know,
05:20again,
05:21three rounds,
05:22stroke four rounds before the fight should have been stopped.
05:25And,
05:25and it should have been stopped by the corner.
05:28You know,
05:29they should not have left it to,
05:31to,
05:33you know,
05:33to foster the referee to stop it.
05:36Shouldn't,
05:36because they should have,
05:39they should have been,
05:41they should have been trying to think of the future for him.
05:44And,
05:44you know,
05:45he,
05:45you know,
05:45if they,
05:46if they pulled him out,
05:46let's say,
05:47for example,
05:47they'd have pulled him out in the sixth or the seventh round.
05:50I mean,
05:51not that,
05:51that's a bit early.
05:52Let's say they pull him out in the seventh or possibly even the eighth round.
05:57You know,
05:57that,
05:57that,
05:58that means,
05:59hold on a second.
06:00That means he can,
06:02he can,
06:03he can still come back.
06:05He can still shake it off.
06:06But then he got another three stroke four rounds of battering and really heavy duty stuff.
06:14Turned him around.
06:15His legs were gone.
06:16He got on his feet.
06:17You know,
06:18that's when you can say the referee,
06:21you know,
06:21from the beginning of the 11th round.
06:23And he tottered like towards a neutral corner.
06:27And,
06:28you know,
06:28I know,
06:31I know that the referee is experiencing everything else,
06:34but,
06:34you know,
06:35maybe he didn't see his legs.
06:36And if you're looking at the crowded,
06:38you're looking at the other corner and you can turn back and your eyes aren't sort of gated towards his
06:45feet.
06:45Maybe you can miss that.
06:48But he looked like he was gone two and a half rounds before then.
06:55And he was just holding on for dear life.
07:14you know,
07:15like he was like,
07:17it was,
07:18anyway,
07:18I mean,
07:19look,
07:20the fight was over.
07:21And,
07:22but I,
07:22I just think those last three stroke four rounds took years off him.
07:28Will he ever be the same again?
07:30That's the question.
07:31I'm not sure that he will.
07:32You don't get beaten like that and come back.
07:35I don't think so.
07:37I don't think he'll ever be the same again.
07:39But,
07:40let's hope I'm wrong.
07:42Now,
07:43I spoke to Duke McKenzie as well.
07:44And he's saying a similar sort of thing and being in the game long,
07:47like yourself.
07:48What about the other side of the coin for Daniel Dubois,
07:52who we saw Don Charles,
07:53who's had some criticism labeled towards him as well too.
07:55But at one point he had to get physical with Daniel to get him focused.
07:58Is that the way to get the best out of him?
08:00Do you think?
08:01It seemed to work.
08:03It seemed to work,
08:03but I mean,
08:04you know,
08:05as I say,
08:05let's be honest,
08:06he was grinding.
08:08He was,
08:09he was grinding Wardley down anyway.
08:11And Wardley was,
08:13Wardley looked like he could topple over for the last three rounds of the fight.
08:18He looked like he was just ready to go.
08:21One good shot would have taken him out.
08:23And,
08:24and,
08:24you know,
08:25bear in mind that Dubois had,
08:28it had been leveled at Dubois.
08:30He didn't have stamina.
08:31He couldn't go past the second,
08:34the second half of the fight without looking exhausted and without sort of,
08:39and he was,
08:40you know,
08:40he was beaten by Usyk,
08:41stopped the first time,
08:42stopped the second time.
08:44And,
08:44you know,
08:45shorter the second time.
08:46But,
08:47and so therefore they were looking at him and think,
08:49well,
08:50big Joe beat him.
08:51Usyk's beat him twice.
08:52You know,
08:53is he on the way out?
08:54And yet he was able to put on the extra pressure in those late rounds that,
09:01that,
09:01that just broke Wardley down,
09:04you know what I mean?
09:05So his performance was very impressive.
09:09He just kept doing the same thing over and over again,
09:11but you got to hand it to him.
09:13you know,
09:14he,
09:14he showed that he had,
09:16you know,
09:16he had less damage.
09:18He had less wear and tear on him.
09:20He was not being hit the same way.
09:23And he was not,
09:24you know,
09:25stranded to,
09:26to drag himself back into the fight.
09:29He was always in it.
09:30He was never hit.
09:31Although he was down twice,
09:33he didn't look that badly hurt on either of those knockdowns.
09:37I don't know how you felt about it,
09:39but for me,
09:40it looked like they were both just flash knockdowns.
09:43They weren't destructive knockdowns.
09:47Now Barry,
09:47as you've been clear about your thoughts on a rematch,
09:50but there is a rematch clause and the team will start talking about that.
09:53You know,
09:54where'd you go?
09:55What are you left with?
09:56It's a big fight.
09:57It's a big talking point.
09:58The rematch financially,
09:59I'm sure it's something Wardley seems to have the attitude to just go for the
10:03toughest challenges.
10:04Do you think that's what they'll end up taking,
10:06taking on the rematch?
10:09Yes,
10:09I think they will take on the rematch,
10:12but I don't think he should fight.
10:13I don't,
10:14I mean,
10:15I genuinely don't think he should take that rematch.
10:17I think that's too dangerous.
10:21I genuinely think it's,
10:23he took way too much punishment and that's,
10:27I mean,
10:28that was so severe.
10:31If I were him,
10:32I'd never fight again.
10:33What about for Daniel?
10:36He's got the victory.
10:38He's got the third fight with Alexander Usyk potentially,
10:40but also Stan bumped into Moses Talma and Stan,
10:44his father said,
10:44we want you,
10:45we want Moses.
10:46Not many people are running towards Moses,
10:48but the Dubois seem to be.
10:51No,
10:52I think that's an inevitability.
10:55I think they're both from Warren's camp.
10:58It was interesting that Frank never mentioned it after the fight and the
11:02interview,
11:04which again suggests to me that,
11:06that,
11:06that,
11:07that,
11:07that is the fight.
11:08And it's,
11:10you know,
11:11he's got,
11:13a tumor is,
11:14I think,
11:14number one now,
11:15isn't he?
11:16and he's got to look at,
11:21he's got to look at,
11:22you know,
11:23Usyk's going to fight this UFC guy.
11:26More than likely he'll hang up his gloves after that and,
11:30and sort of sail it into the sunset.
11:33And,
11:34you know,
11:35so there's a domestic opponent with a world title fight.
11:42It's a no brainer.
11:43It's the one that he would take and he's,
11:45you know,
11:45I,
11:45I watched him sparring,
11:48believe it or not.
11:49He came into our gym and it was very interesting.
11:54Yeah.
11:55What's in that sparring?
11:57I'm not going to say anything.
11:59Between,
11:59between it,
12:01Tamar and Dubois are you saying?
12:02Yeah.
12:03I've also seen them spar at a later date as well.
12:06Yeah.
12:06Also,
12:06also very interesting,
12:07which I won't say.
12:08Yeah,
12:08it's very interesting.
12:09And I think it best we keep our,
12:11our,
12:12our,
12:13our opinions to ourselves,
12:14but yeah,
12:14it's,
12:15it's,
12:15that's a,
12:17I think that was always going to happen.
12:19That's going to be the fight.
12:21It's two of,
12:22of what Warren has an incredible stable of heavyweight boxers.
12:25So,
12:26and,
12:27and it's,
12:28it's,
12:29it has to happen.
12:30You know,
12:30I mean,
12:30they're both,
12:31Daniel's still quite young for a heavyweight tumor.
12:35Is this unbelievable talent coming through.
12:38They're both promoted by Warren.
12:39And it's going to happen,
12:41isn't it?
12:42Before I move on,
12:43I just wonder what you thought of the pre-fight buildup.
12:45It seemed to be that some of the content was sort of centered around making fun of Daniel,
12:50kind of pointing the finger at him.
12:52Did you feel that sort of way with some of the stuff that's being said,
12:55said to him?
12:57I didn't see any of the buildup.
13:00I mean,
13:00I saw some of it,
13:01but not really.
13:04I didn't see,
13:05I saw where he was upset in one of the interviews and he said,
13:09that's enough.
13:10And he got up and walked out.
13:11And I thought,
13:12Ooh,
13:12what's all that about?
13:14But I didn't really try and get to the source.
13:16So,
13:19so they were trying to take the mickey out of him.
13:21Is that what you just said?
13:21It seems that way from some of the content,
13:23whether it be that or the Hawaii interview with some of the questions,
13:26it just seemed to be that Daniel was sort of being laughed at a little bit.
13:30Yeah.
13:31Well,
13:31nobody's laughing now.
13:33So he had the last laugh,
13:34didn't he?
13:36Yeah.
13:36He,
13:36you know,
13:38it's people in this day and age,
13:41everybody wants to take the piss.
13:42Everybody wants to make a fool of you,
13:44wants to take what you have to say and turn it and make,
13:47make you sound foolish or idiotic in some way,
13:50shape or form.
13:52He's not the most articulate guy.
13:54I know that when neither was Sonny Liston,
13:56and neither were so many of the other heavyweights,
13:59but he's a sensible,
14:01bright young man and he's,
14:03you know,
14:04incredibly dangerous and very,
14:06very heavy handed.
14:08So,
14:08you know,
14:09you can,
14:09you can put him in with anybody in any era and give him a chance,
14:14you know?
14:15Right.
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