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Entrevista con Martin Baron, exdirector del Washington Post, quien analiza el panorama político de Estados Unidos y Latinoamérica.
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00:13Welcome to Entrevistas El Espectador.
00:16Today our guest is from a movie, literally from a movie.
00:20Martin Barron, welcome.
00:22He is director of the Washington Post.
00:24And maybe remember a movie that won the Oscar,
00:28which is called Spotlight.
00:31In Spanish you can see it on YouTube under the title of
00:35In Primera Plana.
00:37It is a movie that tells the story of the investigative unit
00:40of the Boston Globe about the sexual assaults
00:44that religious committed in Boston.
00:48One of those who led the investigation is our guest today,
00:53that is in Colombia,
00:55for the Catedra Conectas 2024,
00:58which forms the best editors in Latin America.
01:02He is in Bogotá.
01:04We will talk to him with the spectator,
01:07because we are interested to salud him
01:09and give him the welcome.
01:11I would like to ask you,
01:15eight years after having seen that work in cinema,
01:23how much did you tell in reality what you did in 2001 in the Boston Globe?
01:30Well, it is different.
01:33There was an investigation on the powerful people in Boston.
01:39The Catholic Church was the most powerful institution in Boston,
01:44and we started an investigation on the sexual assaults.
01:49But when I arrived in Washington, I met with different problems.
01:59Obviously, Trump was elected as president.
02:02And I began to have battles against the press.
02:10And obviously, we had like the press
02:13the obligation to fiscalize the government.
02:18It is the most important obligation.
02:20It is at the heart of the political mission.
02:25And there was a big shock between us and Trump.
02:31And, well,
02:32his battles against the press continue.
02:37They continue now.
02:37He has launched again for the presidency.
02:41And we will see.
02:42But the press has the obligation
02:44to give accounts to the powerful people,
02:48even to the politicians.
02:49That has been the identity that Martin has always claimed
02:54in the communications media where he has been.
02:57He has directed publications like the Miami Herald,
03:00the Boston Globe,
03:01the Washington Post.
03:03He directed it from 2012 to 2021.
03:08Yes, in Washington.
03:10In Washington Post.
03:13So, my question has to do with the 10 years
03:19of a decade in the Washington Post.
03:22What lessons did he leave at the end of his career?
03:25Well, I think that the most important thing
03:28was that we paid accounts to the power,
03:37that we fiscalize the politicians,
03:40even the President of the United States,
03:43that, obviously,
03:46is the most powerful person in the world.
03:50And it is a obligation.
03:52And I think that
03:54that was the most important achievement
03:57in my management of the Washington Post.
04:00You received more than 10 Pulitzer Prize,
04:04right?
04:0518,
04:06after the Washington Post,
04:0811,
04:08but after my career,
04:1018.
04:11What does that mean now in your mind
04:14after having been pensionated?
04:18Well,
04:19I was ready to pension me.
04:21I was exhausted.
04:24I was exhausted.
04:25I had spent 20 years
04:27as director and chief of three newspapers.
04:33I had 66 years of age
04:37and an agent of books wanted to write
04:41a book about my experience
04:44as director and chief of the Washington Post.
04:47And I was ready to do that.
04:51And I was looking for more freedom
04:55and more flexibility in my life.
04:59That experience
05:01in the Washington Post
05:02was coincidental
05:03with the arrival
05:04of the Washington Post
05:06of Jeff Bezos,
05:07the founder of Amazon.
05:09That was an additional challenge
05:11for you as director?
05:13Yes, of course.
05:14Well,
05:14he wanted to transform the newspaper
05:18because now we are living
05:21in a digital world
05:23and he wanted to do several things
05:27to transform our publishing
05:29to prepare for the digital era.
05:32And he was willing to invest money
05:37in several initiatives,
05:39but we had to do some changes
05:43within the redaction
05:45to have success.
05:48And he changed
05:50the whole strategy
05:51of the Washington Post.
05:53Before,
05:54it was a periodical
05:56that was centered
05:58in our geographic region
06:01and he wanted us
06:05to be a national
06:08and international.
06:11And he was willing
06:13to invest
06:15to implement
06:17that change.
06:18And we did it.
06:19Yes, we did it.
06:21Yes, of course.
06:22How difficult
06:23to understand
06:24a magnate of that type?
06:26Because I think
06:26you knew what you wanted to do
06:28in the Washington Post.
06:30But to understand
06:31that owner
06:31and at the same time
06:33put it in function
06:34to your goals
06:34as a periodist,
06:37was complex?
06:38Well,
06:38I tried to think
06:39in his ideas
06:40instead of his wealth.
06:43Because
06:46it can't work
06:47thinking
06:48in his wealth
06:49because
06:51it's a huge wealth.
06:55it's a huge wealth
06:56and I was willing to listen
06:57to his ideas.
06:59And I was willing to listen
07:01to his ideas
07:03and I was willing to listen
07:04and our ideas
07:05also.
07:06Because
07:06he was willing to listen
07:08to our own ideas.
07:10But
07:11it was the era
07:12Trump.
07:13That was the other
07:14great challenge.
07:15That those
07:16political principles
07:17could be renovated
07:19during the era
07:20of Donald Trump.
07:22It was difficult
07:24in those conditions
07:25to have
07:25had time
07:27to know
07:27a Bezos
07:28and Trump
07:29and understand
07:30the two
07:30and keep being
07:32the periodist
07:33that you were
07:34from Boston
07:35from Miami.
07:37It was difficult.
07:38Yes,
07:39obviously
07:39it was difficult
07:40because
07:41there were so many
07:42things
07:42to do.
07:45But
07:46the truth is
07:46that the arrival
07:47of Trump
07:49ironically
07:49helped us
07:51because
07:52there were
07:52many
07:55people,
07:56many
07:56lecturers
07:56that
07:58had interest
07:58in their
08:00rendition
08:00of accounts.
08:01They were afraid
08:02that
08:03there were not
08:05enough
08:05controls
08:06control
08:07about their
08:07behavior,
08:08about their
08:10use of
08:11their power.
08:12And
08:12then
08:14they
08:14began to
08:16think
08:16more
08:18about the role
08:19of the
08:20periodism.
08:21Before
08:22they had
08:23given
08:24the
08:26democracy
08:27and
08:28the
08:30periodism
08:31and
08:32the role
08:33of the
08:33periodism.
08:34during the
08:35period
08:35of
08:36Trump,
08:36they
08:37began to think
08:38a little
08:40more
08:41about
08:43the
08:43need
08:44to have
08:46strong
08:47periodism
08:48to
08:49secure
08:51and
08:52protect
08:53the
08:54democracy.
08:55those
08:55principles
08:56you have
08:57taught us
08:57here
08:58in
09:00Conectas
09:01fiscalize
09:03the
09:03power,
09:05honesty
09:06in the
09:07periodism.
09:07But in
09:08those two
09:09powers,
09:10the power
09:13of
09:13Trump's
09:13power,
09:16how
09:16would
09:18defend
09:19the
09:19democracy
09:21in
09:22those
09:2310
09:23years?
09:24Well,
09:25it is
09:25a priority
09:27for
09:28all
09:29periodists.
09:30The truth is
09:31that
09:32the
09:34periodism
09:35can't
09:36succeed
09:36without
09:37the
09:37democracy.
09:38And
09:39the
09:40democracy
09:41can't
09:42succeed
09:43without
09:44the
09:44periodism.
09:44it
09:45is
09:45true.
09:47That
09:47means
09:48that
09:48if
09:50we
09:51are
09:51democracy,
09:52we
09:52don't
09:53have to
09:55become
09:55activists.
09:56We
09:58need
10:00to
10:01give
10:02the
10:03information
10:03they need
10:06to
10:08govern
10:09themselves.
10:11Martin
10:12published
10:12Colisión
10:13de
10:14Poder,
10:15which is
10:15the book
10:16that resume
10:17this
10:18time
10:18that we're
10:18talking about
10:19and that
10:20has a lot of
10:20emphasis on the
10:21era of Trump
10:22and the
10:23era of
10:24Besos.
10:24How did
10:25it go?
10:26It went well.
10:28It went well.
10:28It went well.
10:29It went well.
10:29It went well.
10:30It went well.
10:30It went well.
10:31It went well.
10:32It went well.
10:34It went well.
10:39It went well.
10:47It went well.
10:49It went well.
10:51It's
10:52a lot of
10:52and
10:53the
10:56book
10:58It's
10:58a lot of
10:59books.
11:01It's
11:01been
11:01a lot of
11:02the
11:02books.
11:02a lot of
11:04And it was my idea. I had several ideas. I wanted to offer to the public a real and precise
11:16story about that moment in the history of the press and the Washington Post.
11:22It was a very historical moment. I wanted to give you an idea of the role of an editor, of
11:32what it means to be an editor, and the decisions we have to emit.
11:38And I also wanted to talk about the issue of the norms, the principles, and the application of our rules
11:49and the ethical directives in our media.
11:56So, we would have the book in Spanish and in Colombia a half of year, more or less.
12:00Yes, I think so.
12:01Well, it is important, I believe, because in the article that they published in Spanish, one has an emphasis on
12:10the credibility, the importance of the credibility in the journalism,
12:15that is in the play today, more than ever, with so many false news that there are in the world.
12:21Why is it a priority for the global journalism to rescate the credibility in the journalism?
12:27Well, the truth is that there are many people who don't trust in the media, don't trust in many institutions,
12:35and we have to do everything possible to strengthen our credibility.
12:43We have to remember that credibility.
12:47We have to remember that the credibility is the fundamental of the journalism.
12:52If there is no credibility, there is nothing.
12:55And in this moment, when there is so much polarization, when there are sources of false information,
13:06information, information, entre comillas, there is a great need for institutions that offer to the public information verified information.
13:17That means investigation and verification.
13:21In the Washington Post, remember an example of that.
13:26That you have done well.
13:27Yes, of course.
13:29Yes, of course.
13:29Well, the key part of the journalism is the verification.
13:33It is what distinguishes us from other sources of information.
13:38Information, entre comillas.
13:40This information.
13:41And then there is something that we have to do with the investigations, too,
13:46because there are many people, many people, many institutions,
13:52that can influence the lives of the people.
13:59And it is important to them.
14:04After fiscalizing for so long, Donald Trump,
14:08what is the view of this year?
14:11This year will be definitive for the United States.
14:13And Trump, again, is on the political scene.
14:16How is this path to the presidential election at the end of this year in the United States?
14:21Well, it seems that he will be the Republican candidate.
14:27And he has a great possibility of winning the election this year.
14:35Because there are many US citizens who think that Biden is a very old man,
14:43too old man, too weak.
14:45He can't communicate well with people about his achievements.
14:48And he had many achievements.
14:49And Trump is also a old man.
14:56However, he communicates even more energy,
15:02even though his speeches are incoherent.
15:06Why Donald Trump is still having so many possibilities to repeat the presidency,
15:11despite all of what you denounced in Washington Post,
15:13all of the excess power,
15:15what happened in the Capitol,
15:17why is it still being a great possibility?
15:20Well, the voters are thinking about other things.
15:23They are thinking about the economy.
15:25Even though the economy in the United States is working quite well.
15:30They are thinking about the number of crimes.
15:35They think that the tax of criminalization has increased a lot, but it is not a matter.
15:43And there are also several vulnerabilities from Biden.
15:48And the first one is the border.
15:52The migration, the migrants that cross the border,
15:58miles and miles, hundreds of thousands of people.
16:01And there are many voters in the United States that are afraid of the migration.
16:08They are tired of the number of migrants.
16:13And they think that Trump is going to do something to stop them.
16:18So, you're inclined more for a possible victory of Trump,
16:23despite the candidate Democrat candidate.
16:26There is a possibility.
16:28There is a possibility.
16:30There is a possibility.
16:33Yes, I think.
16:34Yes, I think.
16:35Yes.
16:35In other words, the effect of populism that that generated,
16:40I think that has been analyzed from all perspectives,
16:44has impacted a lot in Latin America.
16:46We have the example of Bolsonaro in Brazil.
16:48Now, more close to the effect of Milley in Argentina.
16:51The effect of Bukele in El Salvador.
16:54Bukele seems to be re-elegated in El Salvador.
16:57What do you say?
16:59After having lived so close the whole process of Trump during a decade,
17:04what do you say about that reflection in Latin America?
17:08Well, it seems to be that there are many voters who do not have so much confidence in the democracy,
17:16in the results of the democracy.
17:19And because of that, there is more support for the populism
17:25and more support for the authoritarianism.
17:30And, well, I worry about what is happening in Latin America,
17:38the advances towards authoritarianism in this region.
17:43And I worry about the possibility of having a authoritarian leader in the United States.
17:50because Trump is inclined to the authoritarianism.
17:56He always talks about wanting to have the power of a authoritarian leader.
18:03He envidia to the autócratas in other countries.
18:10And, well, it's a threat to our country.
18:15That's right, right?
18:17That would be the slogan that you chose in the Washington Post.
18:20The democracy dies in the dark.
18:21Yes, we have tried to raise light on what is happening in the country, but there are people who are
18:29thinking about other things,
18:31for example, obviously, in El Salvador. Many of the citizens of El Salvador are thinking about their own security.
18:39Obviously, it is something very important. And in the United States, they are thinking about the economy,
18:45in their security, in the migration, and a large number of things.
18:54And they are not only thinking about democracy. And among many people, they think that democracy
19:03has not yet solved the problems that affect their lives.
19:10Yes. In all cases, the authoritarianism, whether it is left or left, because we have the case of Venezuela with
19:17Maduro,
19:17for example.
19:18Yes, of course.
19:19There is also a tendency of left, that many people believe that can be authoritarian,
19:24even here in Colombia with Petro. There is the left in Chile with Boris.
19:28How do you see it?
19:30From the left, left, left in America?
19:32Depends on the country.
19:33Depends on the country.
19:34Depends on the country, but they have authoritarianism from the right or left.
19:43No matter. It's almost the same thing. They have different policies, but they have different...
19:54In that case, the government has all their power.
19:57En ese contexto, ¿cuál es el periodismo que tú recomiendas frente a ese sistema de autoritarismo?
20:08¿Qué se debe hacer?
20:10Bueno, recomiendo el periodismo de verificación.
20:13Obviamente es importante, es muy importante mantener nuestra credibilidad.
20:19Tenemos que mantener nuestra imparcialidad con respecto a los hechos.
20:23Tenemos la obligación de descubrir los hechos, de contar los hechos sin temor al pueblo.
20:36Es importante que mantengamos nuestras normas, nuestros valores, nuestros principios
20:43y seguir con el trabajo que tenemos.
20:47El trabajo es descubrir los hechos y contar los hechos sin temor.
20:52Y eso es lo que recomiendo.
20:57Eso es fundamental.
21:00Sin embargo, en este escenario conectas la plataforma periodística para las Américas.
21:07Martín está invitado porque la cátedra se hace en honor suyo y porque la idea es actualizar sobre el periodismo
21:16en general a los mejores editores de América Latina.
21:18Muchos de ellos están amenazados.
21:21Muchos de ellos están amenazados.
21:22Muchos de ellos están exiliados.
21:23Entonces, ¿cómo ejercer ese periodismo si ni siquiera pueden estar en sus propios países?
21:28Tenemos los casos de Nicaragua, que todos tienen que trabajar desde Costa Rica, para dar un ejemplo.
21:34¿Qué hacer?
21:35Soy bien consciente de las presiones a las que se enfrentan los periodistas en esos países.
21:43Presiones personales, políticas, profesionales, económicas, presiones de cualquier tipo.
21:51Y, bueno, hay muchos periodistas que tienen que trabajar en exilio.
21:56Y, bueno, ¿qué pueden hacer?
21:58Obviamente, es difícil y es casi imposible.
22:04Pero ellos pueden contar con fuentes en varios lugares y deberían seguir con su trabajo contando y haciendo su reportaje
22:15y tratando de descubrir los hechos de lo que está pasando en su propio país, su propio país.
22:20Pero hay, bueno, los ciudadanos en esos países van a descubrir, si no lo han descubierto, no lo han descubierto,
22:30que una democracia no puede sobrevivir sin una prensa libre.
22:38Una de tus máximas es, la historia debe ser contada.
22:46En este caso, en esta semana, ¿qué les has aconsejado para que puedan seguir contando la historia de sus países
22:52a pesar de la situación en que estamos?
22:55Sí, ellos tienen que seguir contando las historias a pesar de lo que está pasando, lo que está pasando en
23:03sus vidas, a pesar de las presiones a las que se enfrentan.
23:07Bueno, obviamente es más difícil, pero tenemos la obligación de seguir siendo optimistas, yo creo, porque nunca he conocido a
23:20una persona que ha tenido éxito por pensar que iba a fracasar.
23:26Entonces, tenemos que seguir con nuestro trabajo porque creemos en la misión de nuestro trabajo y porque nuestro trabajo está
23:39al corazón de una democracia y al corazón del buen funcionamiento de un país.
23:49Te acabas de jubilar, ahora estás viviendo en la zona rural de Massachusetts, en la montaña, aislado, de tantas noticias,
24:01o no aislado.
24:03Bueno, afortunadamente hay otra gente ahí, pero sí, hay osos, hay puertos de espines, hay zorros y coyotes y todo.
24:13¿Y qué estás haciendo allá? ¿Escribir? ¿Ahora quieres escribir más libros?
24:17Bueno, he pasado dos años escribiendo un libro y ahora estoy en el proceso de promocionar el libro y tengo
24:26muchos compromisos, una agenda muy agitada hasta abril, mayo.
24:34Y después, no sé, todavía no he tomado ninguna decisión sobre mi futuro. Mi agente de libros quiere que yo
24:45escriba otro libro y también mi editor quiere que escriba otro libro.
24:52Y yo tengo algunas ideas, sin embargo, no sé todavía si tengo la voluntad ni la energía de hacerlo.
24:59¿Sobre periodismo o actualidad política?
25:02Tiene que ver con el periodismo, pero no serían libros sobre el periodismo, sí.
25:08Ah, ok. ¿Y vas a poder ahora, lo que me contaste alguna vez en Medellín, recorrer Latinoamérica con calma?
25:14Sí, me gustaría hacerlo. Cuando yo dejo de promocionar mi libro, cuando yo dejo con la gira de promoción, me
25:27gustaría tener más tiempo solamente para viajar, para ir a cosas que todavía no he visto.
25:32Y aunque he recorrido una gran parte de América Latina, hay mucho más que ver y me gustaría hacerlo.
25:42Sí, y para quienes no saben, Martín, lo que yo capte es que no le gusta el turismo comercial.
25:49No.
25:49Por ejemplo, me impresionó mucho verlo maravillado con la Comuna 13 de Medellín.
25:54Sí, háganse una idea de la visión de Martín, de la Latinoamérica profunda que él quiere terminar de conocer.
26:02Lo que he tratado de hacer es evitar los turistas durante mi propio turismo.
26:07¿Ya te reconectaste de nuevo con las redes sociales o sigues aislado?
26:13Nada de X, Facebook.
26:14No, no me gustan tanto las redes sociales. He tenido muchos problemas con esas redes.
26:24Las redes sociales han desembocado un mal comportamiento por parte de los periodistas y otras personas.
26:34Hay demasiado sarcasmo, hay demasiado comportamiento muy malo ahí.
26:40Y entonces, aunque tengo cuentas en las redes sociales, la verdad es que no participo mucho en esas redes.
26:53Bueno, pero siguen siendo las plataformas de información que mueven todos los acontecimientos del mundo.
27:01¿Qué mensaje, para terminar, les darías a los jóvenes periodistas como quienes están grabando esta entrevista
27:08para que sigan perseverando en la profesión y que encuentren el camino en el siglo XXI?
27:15Bueno, si tienen pasión para el periodismo, para la democracia, deberías seguir con su andadura profesional.
27:23Y porque es una profesión muy importante para nuestros países, para las democracias.
27:33Y como te dije, tenemos que seguir siendo optimistas, porque sin ser optimistas no vamos a tener éxito.
27:43No olviden ver en primera plana, está en YouTube, para que entiendan la trascendencia del personaje que entrevistamos hoy.
27:54Y sigan Entrevistas El Espectador.
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