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00:00We're exactly seven sleeps out into the NFL Draft.
00:04Will the impasse on Dexter Lawrence's contract talks
00:07affect what the Giants do in the first and second round?
00:10And it's time we take you guys back to school.
00:13We're going to revisit and we're going to grade the Giants' first and second round picks since 2022.
00:19This is Blue Rush from the New York Post Sports.
00:28What's up, Giants fans?
00:29Brandon London here, but I have the guy that you all really want to hear from.
00:34He's been all over the Dexter Lawrence contract or trade talks,
00:38and you've seen a lot of his reports being used all over sports media.
00:42Our Giants beat writer for the Post, the man, the myth, the legend, Paul Schwartz.
00:46Paul, appreciate you hopping on with us today.
00:50Let's kick this thing off because there's a lot of reports online, fan sites, Twitter, X, whatever you want to
00:57call it.
00:57I'm going to you, sir.
00:59Can you give us the Dexter Lawrence trade or contract talks?
01:04All the news as of the time we're filming this was April 16th, 1042 a.m.
01:13What did you call this in that little tease?
01:15You called it the Dexter Lawrence what word?
01:18Impasse.
01:19Impasse?
01:22I think it's impasse.
01:25Impasse?
01:26I think that's the French.
01:28I think the E is silent.
01:30I think it's an impasse.
01:32When you said it was an impasse, I'm like, oh, boy, maybe it is an impasse.
01:36Maybe I've been reading this all wrong.
01:38I spent a lot of time in Montreal, Paul, so maybe I'll just, the French Quebec in me, I guess.
01:45You might be right.
01:46You spent more time in Montreal than I did.
01:48When I lived in Albany, I spent time in Montreal.
01:51That's a great place to spend time, as you know, right?
01:53Yes, sir.
01:54Great place to spend time.
01:55Yes, sir.
01:55Maybe not in the middle of the winter, but yes, great place to spend time.
01:59Look, here's what I think is the truth, okay?
02:02You know what I mean?
02:03The truth is bendable, but here's what I think.
02:05The Giants do not want to trade Dexter Lawrence, okay?
02:10Do not.
02:10Repeat, do not.
02:12They look at him, I'll try to give you both sides of this.
02:15The Giants look at him as one of their core players, who they gave a four-year, $90 million
02:21contract to, state-of-the-art market value contract two years ago.
02:25He played great in 2024.
02:28Lived up to that contract tremendously, but unfortunately missed the last five games with
02:33an elbow injury, dislocated elbow, right?
02:352025, he started all 17 games and did not play up to those standards, right?
02:41You don't have to quote from me.
02:43You can quote the great Carl Banks, right?
02:45The former Giants, legendary linebacker who said that, you know, other teams weren't respecting
02:50Dexter Lawrence on the field the way they used to.
02:54So he did not play well.
02:55So the Giants look at it and say, we have a really good player.
02:58We're troubled that he didn't play well last year.
03:00We want him.
03:01He's under contract the next two years.
03:03Let's go.
03:04Dexter Lawrence and his camp looks at this and say, okay, I outperformed my contract.
03:10The salary cap went up.
03:12When I signed that contract, I was the third highest paid interior defensive lineman in
03:16the league.
03:17I am now the 12th.
03:19Not good.
03:20He looks at players like Milton Williams of the Patriots and Davis of the Eagles and says,
03:27I am a better player than them.
03:29They're getting an average of $26 million a year.
03:31I'm getting 21.8.
03:33No good.
03:34I should have more money.
03:36Dexter Lawrence wanted more money last year.
03:38The Giants really didn't want to do anything.
03:40They gave him $3 million in the contract based on incentives.
03:44He didn't hit any of those other than playing time incentives.
03:47And so he got an extra million dollars last year.
03:50I think they're willing to do something similar to that again.
03:53That's why Joe Shane referred to.
03:55We've had good conversations, things like that.
03:58I think Joe was being kind when he was saying that they had conversations, but they really didn't
04:03get anywhere because Dexter Lawrence wants a lot more money.
04:07So what do you do when you want a lot more money and you have no leverage?
04:11You tell your agent to inform the Giants you want to be traded, okay?
04:15That's going to spur up interest.
04:17And the goal there is to get the Giants to ante up more money or to indeed get a trade
04:23and then let his agent negotiate with those teams for a new contract.
04:28Dexter Lawrence doesn't want to go to a new team on this contract.
04:31He wants to go to a new team on a much bigger contract.
04:34This is about following and chasing more money.
04:37That's what Dexter Lawrence wants.
04:38So that's where we are right now.
04:40The Giants feel no urgency to get anything done.
04:43He's under contract.
04:44Dexter Lawrence has a $500,000 workout clause in his contract.
04:50He's not shut up for the first week and a half of the off-season workout program.
04:53So that's out the window.
04:55It's voluntary.
04:57Once he starts missing things, the veteran minicamp is in June.
05:00You get docked $50,000 a day.
05:03That is non-refundable, non-rescindable.
05:06That is real money.
05:07So that's where we are.
05:09I don't see where Dexter Lawrence's camp has a lot of leverage here.
05:13He is under contract.
05:14John Harbaugh wants him to play for the Giants this year.
05:19Joe Shane wants him to play for the Giants this year.
05:21But he's 28 years old.
05:23He'll be 29 in November, and the way the Giants look at it is come here, play great.
05:28We have a new culture.
05:29We have a new head coach.
05:31Play great, and we will pay you next year after you're coming off a big year.
05:34We don't want to pay you coming off not a big year.
05:37That's what I know so far.
05:38You said how John and Joe want him to be a part of this team and play for this team
05:43in
05:432026.
05:44Brian Burns wants him to play and be on this team as well.
05:48You talk about a Spider-Man Burns that when he speaks, everyone listens.
05:52And I feel like his name kind of vibrates to upstairs.
05:55And I don't know if he's had conversations with John Harbaugh or Joe Shane when it comes
06:04to Dexter Lawrence.
06:05I mean, I imagine they've kind of said a couple things back and forth since everyone's back
06:09into the building.
06:10But when you talk about when you have a guy like that that's highly respected in the
06:15locker room, not only because of his production, but because of his leadership in a Brian Burns
06:21runs to the football.
06:22He's a guy that shows, hey, don't listen to what I say.
06:25Watch what I do.
06:26Mimic what I do.
06:27When he says that there are a lot of guys that look up to Dexter Lawrence in that locker
06:32room, that's kind of the players telling John Harbaugh, hey, I know this is your first time
06:38here, your first week here officially.
06:41I know you got paid a lot of a king's ransom to come in and clean all this stuff up.
06:46But we need that guy.
06:48He's basically saying that that down year was he wasn't in shape or he wasn't ready.
06:54You're going to get 2024 Dexter Lawrence back if you give him a little bit of money and
06:59play ball.
07:00So he's got, when we talk leverage, yeah, you've got that down year to where that doesn't
07:05help at all.
07:07But when you got a Spider-Man Burns or Brian Burns coming out and kind of speaking for
07:12you on your behalf, that kind of helps-ish.
07:15But I don't know, Paul.
07:17What does it do?
07:18Look, I think everyone in the locker room wants him back.
07:21I mean, you know, ask Brian Burns, ask Darius Alexander, ask Abdul Carter, ask Kayvon Thibodeau.
07:28Why wouldn't they want a 340-pound, when he's playing well, monster in the middle, taking
07:34up double teams so they can free those guys up?
07:36So that's not, the locker room is not the issue.
07:38You know, put it this way.
07:39When is the last time you heard a player come out on or off the record and say, you know
07:44what?
07:46We can do without him.
07:47Don't sign him.
07:48You know, I think everyone in the locker room wanted Wondell Robinson back and Cordell
07:51Flott back.
07:53But it's business, right?
07:54You know, Brian Burns got a ton of money after, you know, Brian Burns wanted out of the Panthers,
08:02right?
08:03Of Carolina.
08:04The Giants got a trade and then gave him a new contract.
08:08That's the formula that Dexter Lawrence wants.
08:12But I think everyone in the front office wants Dexter Lawrence back.
08:16You think, you know, John Harbaugh wants him back.
08:18They are not a better team without him.
08:20There is no question about it.
08:22No matter who, even if they get draft picks and they draft a defensive tackle, you know,
08:29midway through the first round with a new pick.
08:31OK, that guy's not going to walk in and be better than Dexter Lawrence right away.
08:34Now he's 21 years old.
08:36OK, Dexter is going to be 29.
08:38That's different.
08:38But the Giants don't want to play that game.
08:40They want him.
08:41But let me ask you as a former player, right?
08:44You know, in Seinfeld, what did George Costanza say?
08:47Hand, right?
08:48Talking about a relationship.
08:50I have no hand, Jerry, no hand.
08:53Man with no hand is no man, right?
08:55Hand is leverage.
08:56Yeah.
08:57What is Dexter Lawrence's recourse here?
09:00What is his recourse if the Giants say we will give you some more incentives, but we're not giving you
09:05that big deal that you want?
09:07OK, now he says, I want to trade.
09:09OK, the Giants look into it.
09:12They take calls.
09:14They set a very high bar for him, right?
09:16And they don't make a trade.
09:17Yep.
09:18They don't make a trade because they're not giving away an asset like him away.
09:21OK, you're his agent or you're the player.
09:24What do you do if you're Dexter Lawrence?
09:26First and foremost, I fire the agent because I got bad advice to even put myself in this situation as
09:32a whole.
09:32You know, you're thinking you're talking to the agent throughout the course of the offseason.
09:36And he's like, oh, you deserve money.
09:38This guy's getting that.
09:39This guy's getting that.
09:40I think I've had some back channel talks.
09:42I think that I could get you to Team X for and they'll pay you, you know, just just like
09:47you said, just like Brian Burns.
09:49You know, he forced his way out of there.
09:51So first and foremost, I fire the agent.
09:52If I have to come back, you know, if I have to come back humbly to John Harbaugh and to
10:00the Giants and to Denard Wilson and to that, you know, into that locker room.
10:06Secondly, you're you're not going to be excited.
10:09You know, you're going to play for your boys.
10:11You're going to you know, you're still run to the football.
10:13You'll still be a pro.
10:15But you just you're not going to have that extra dog in you, Paul.
10:18And then once the once people start seeing that, once the players kind of start seeing that it may be
10:23a little bit too late.
10:25So it's they have to something has to get done to get what you want to get what you want
10:33out of the player in terms of a happy players, a productive player.
10:37And then to keeping that locker room happy, especially since this is the biggest piece of business John Harbaugh has
10:45had to deal with since taking over as head coach of the Giants.
10:49OK, a couple of things there. Now, we don't know, you know, is this agent driven or is this Dexter
10:54Lawrence driven?
10:55You know what I mean? You know, if Dexter, right.
10:57You know what I mean? I'm just saying, you know, Joel Siegel is a very experienced and respected agent in
11:01the game.
11:01So is this Dexter Lawrence saying, do this, do this, do this, do this, do this.
11:07And, you know, so, you know, at some point, right, an agent and a player have to have a serious
11:10conversation and say, look, this is what I think.
11:13This is what we can get. This is the expectations.
11:15And whosever expectations are not met, then it's a problem.
11:18You know, you know, you may have to go a different direction.
11:21But sometimes the agent says, look, I can definitely do it.
11:24Sometimes the player says, do it. I want it.
11:26Now, if Dexter Lawrence's endgame is I want more money, right, then him showing up and not doing what he
11:34needs to do and not being a great player takes him further away from the money.
11:39You know what I mean? If he comes in and plays well, there's a couple of things.
11:43Maybe he plays really well and the Giants are just doing OK.
11:48And John Harbaugh and Joe Shane sit down around the trade deadline this coming season and say, you know what?
11:54Dex has been good, but he's going to be, you know, maybe not part of the future.
11:58We trade him at the deadline. You might be able to get more for him at the deadline than you
12:02can right now, because right now his tape from 2025 is OK.
12:07It's not great. It's not dominant. You know that it's not dominant.
12:11Yeah, I get it. I get it. You know, you know, hold out is is makes no sense.
12:17You know, he's not going to not play this season. Hold in.
12:19You know, players have done that. Right. As you said, you show up for the mandatory minicamp and you got
12:27a little tweak, a little hamstring.
12:30Right. So you ride the bike. Yeah, you ride the bike. Right.
12:33You don't get on the field. You ride the bike. OK.
12:35And then training can't come training camp comes and you show up and you practice and a little bit of
12:43back soreness.
12:44Right. You're three under 40 pounds. Got a little bit of back soreness.
12:46So you kind of sit out. You know, we've seen that. O.C. Umiura did that.
12:50You know, O.C. Umiura basically showed up to camp and wanted more money.
12:55And they said, look, you're on your contract. And O.C. said, you know, I got a little knee inflammation
12:59and he had arthroscopic surgery to have a cleanup surgery and missed the, you know, 10 days to two weeks
13:05with that.
13:05You don't want to pay me. I'll have my little cleanup surgery and miss.
13:08Then he came back and played, you know, so two years left on a contract.
13:12In fact, that's tough. That's tough for leverage. But they don't want it to get to this.
13:15But I agree with you. There's not going to be a miracle cure here.
13:19And OK, you know, we know Dex. He's a proud guy.
13:22You saw him in the locker room this past year. He was not happy.
13:25The team was losing. They fired the coach.
13:28They fired the defensive coordinator. It was miserable.
13:30He was miserable. But I'll leave you with this.
13:32The Giants now believe with John Harbaugh in the building that his force of will and the culture change he
13:41wants to implement that even a malcontent player such as Dexter Lawrence will not have the oxygen he needs because
13:49it's John Harbaugh's team right now.
13:52You know what I mean? And you need to adhere to John Harbaugh and his plan versus this is me
13:58and this is what I want.
13:59So, you know, we'll see. Hopefully it gets rectified. But you're right. It could be headed for a trade that
14:04the Giants don't want, but may have to happen.
14:06And then don't forget that team then have to say, we want to give you a first round pick and
14:10a second round pick, whatever the for Dexter Lawrence.
14:13And oh, by the way, we're ready to give him a contract extension to make him up to 26, 27,
14:2028 million a year.
14:23Does a team want to do that? We'll see.
14:24The Giants have to find the Giants because, like you say, it's basically the same situation as Brian Burns.
14:29So you get to pick up the phone when the Giants call.
14:34That fifth pick, do you think, OK, so I'm going to create two scenarios for you with that fifth pick
14:40the Giants are currently holding right now.
14:43Now, let's say they trade Dexter Lawrence. Does that impact what they do with the fifth pick?
14:49And then give us a scenario to where, all right, they they re-signed them or, you know, gave them
14:53a little bit of extra money.
14:54Now, what do you think they do with that fifth pick?
14:58Well, I mean, I don't think they take a defensive tackle with the fifth pick.
15:01You know, they won't do that.
15:02But if they trade Dexter Lawrence, now you're going to have draft ammunition probably in the first round this year
15:09or next year.
15:10If it's this year, maybe you draft a defensive tackle at 15, 16, 18, whatever that pick is, or with
15:16the extra second round pick you get, something like that.
15:19Like I said, you're not drafting Dexter Lawrence because, you know, he's a Pro Bowl player.
15:22You may be drafting for potential to be a Dexter Lawrence down the road.
15:26But no, I think the fifth pick is, look, it's a great debate.
15:30No matter what, look, the Jets pick number two and people don't know which edge rusher they're going to take,
15:35right?
15:35All anyone seems to know right now is Mendoza's going number one to the Raiders.
15:39And then it could be, you know, is Jeremiah Love going four to the Titans?
15:44Is he going five to the Giants?
15:46Is Tate from Ohio State the receiver?
15:50Is he going four?
15:51Is he going five?
15:52Is he going eight?
15:53You know, it's where Sonny Stiles and Caleb Downs going, two great Ohio State defenders, right?
15:59So I don't think with the five pick, Dexter Lawrence has any weight in this, whether he's on the team
16:06or not.
16:06But it certainly could address their draft needs moving forward.
16:11All right.
16:12Now let's look back a little bit.
16:13Let's play a little revisionist history here.
16:16Let's grade the former or the last couple of first and second round draft picks.
16:23We'll go 2025 back to 2022.
16:26So that's four drafts we can look at.
16:29We'll start with 2025.
16:32Paul, put your professor cap on.
16:34You've got with the third pick, Abdul Carter, 25th pick.
16:39They traded back into the first round to grab Jackson Dart late that night.
16:44Your grade for the 2025 first pick, first round would be what?
16:50I mean, look, I'm not going to do this, but any grade in 2025 has to be incomplete.
16:57But, but look, Abdul Carter, here's what I would say.
17:00Abdul Carter did less than I expected him to.
17:03Okay.
17:03He had some maturity issues.
17:06You know, he was not that beastly person and player we saw in training camp and things like that, but
17:13he got better.
17:14The potential is clearly there.
17:16So he, I am bullish on what he can do, even though I admit that I was not blown away
17:23by what he did as a rookie.
17:25Okay.
17:25Spurts, but not consistency.
17:27Jackson Dart was better than I thought he would be.
17:29No question.
17:30I didn't think he would start that many games.
17:32You know, with Russell Wilson and Jameis Winston, I did not think he would start as early as week four.
17:38Looking back on it, maybe he should have started week one, even though I'm not going there.
17:42Because when you have Russell Wilson, you have to give him a chance, at least to show that he's got
17:45something left.
17:46So I'm not going to go there.
17:47That's a complete second guess on my part.
17:49Jackson Dart was considerably better as a rookie than I thought.
17:52So I think round one of 2025 at this point could be a franchise changing first, you know, two picks
18:02for the Giants.
18:03There's no question about it.
18:04Yeah, without a doubt.
18:05I gave it an A minus.
18:06I know what you mean by the incomplete.
18:07I gave it an A minus because I'm looking ahead a little bit here.
18:12And like you said, these are two guys that are going to be staples.
18:15These are two guys that I feel like are going to sign second contracts as New York Giants.
18:21And with the Abdul Carter thing, when you got a kid that comes in like that, he's hungry.
18:25He's confident.
18:26You know, he's asking for to unretire a Lawrence Taylor's number.
18:31I understand he underplayed when it came to the production and asking for LT's number.
18:37But like you said, you saw some, I don't want to say some LT in him, but you saw some
18:43future in him.
18:44You saw some OC in him, and you saw a guy that I think he's going to wreak havoc.
18:48And he may, him and Brian Burns may have the same amount of sacks this year.
18:53He may get them.
18:54I don't know, because Brian Burns is going to have a lot of double teams and command a lot of
18:58respect.
18:59But if you've seen, I don't know if you follow Abdul on Instagram, but he's put out a couple, you
19:03know, these kids, they put out these workout videos all the time now.
19:06And I used to get in trouble back in the Miami Dolphins for putting out workout videos.
19:11That's my back in the day moment, Paul.
19:12But I mean, he looks, he looks absolutely phenomenal.
19:16Again, you're, you're working out, but I think this kid's going to be primed for a great year too.
19:21When was the last time a player put out a workout video and it was like, oh yeah, he looks
19:25bad.
19:26I'm putting, I'm putting out a workout video.
19:28I'm five pounds overweight.
19:30And I, I hit, I, you know, I, I couldn't lift the weight and I didn't get my knees up
19:34on this drill.
19:35You know what I mean?
19:36You know, it's like I posted that.
19:38Uh, that's not so good.
19:39I don't look very good.
19:41I know workout videos.
19:42Look, if we want to draft by workout videos, then Sonny Stiles should be the first pick in the draft.
19:47I mean, I mean, now he might be the fourth or fifth or third pick in the draft.
19:53So he's really good.
19:53I'm not downplaying him.
19:54I'm just saying, huh, workout videos.
19:57I know.
19:57I know.
19:58But you know, I like your A minus.
19:59I mean, that would be my grade because Dart makes it over top.
20:04And the only minus is that, you know, we want a little more from Abdul.
20:08Yeah.
20:08We want a little more.
20:09I would go B plus A minus.
20:10Definitely there.
20:11Yeah.
20:11All right.
20:122024 with the sixth pick that grabbed Malik Neighbors.
20:15And then the second round, 47th pick, they grabbed Tyler Newbin, safety out of Minnesota.
20:22I'll let you go on that one.
20:25Okay, I'll analyze it and give it my grade.
20:28Tyler Newbin first, disappointing, you know, disappointing.
20:31He showed more progress as a rookie than he did last year.
20:33He's had some injuries.
20:36You know, physical guy, box safety.
20:38He had all kinds of production at Minnesota.
20:41You know, we've seen none of that.
20:42Is that scheme?
20:43Is that him?
20:44Is that, you know, the lack of that second gear of quickness?
20:48You know, he was a ball hawk in college and he's not near the ball.
20:51So, you know, and I don't, I don't, you know, depending on who they draft, if they would
20:55draft Caleb Downs, then, you know, he's also a good box guy too, who has more versatility.
21:01So, you know, he's been disappointing.
21:03I'm not giving up on him.
21:04He's a great guy.
21:04He's a great young man.
21:05I think he's got leadership skills.
21:07We need more from him.
21:08There's no question.
21:09Neighbors is great when he's on the field, you know, you know, some also some issues with
21:16dealing with losing and the NFL game, but stud, you know, he would be the
21:21first receiver in this draft.
21:23There's no question about it.
21:24You know, he's better.
21:25He's a better prospect than any receiver coming out in 2026.
21:29He's the next monster.
21:31If he stays healthy, I think, you know, the ACL was obviously a damaging blow.
21:36So, you know, you got to give him a little bit of a hit because of the injury, not his
21:39fault, but, you know, availability is key.
21:41So I would give that neighbors is like an a minus Nubin brings it down.
21:47So I think you're just in a B range right there.
21:49Okay.
21:50I'm with you.
21:50I gave it a B minus.
21:51I agree with you on Malik neighbors.
21:53I think, you know, hopefully he comes back from this ACL stronger.
21:58You know, some guys, it takes them a little bit to get the rust off.
22:00Like I tell people all the time, it's not about going up for the football.
22:04It's about the mental when you're coming down with the football.
22:07But yeah, Tyler Newbin was a guy who was really not on my radar at all going into that draft.
22:13But when they drafted him, you go back and you looked at what he did at Minnesota.
22:17You're like, oh my gosh, this kid could be the steal of the draft on defense.
22:21But when you go back, Paul, and you look at the safeties that were taken in the second
22:25round in that draft, you got Javon Bullard out of Green Bay, 173 total tackles, no interceptions.
22:32Cole Bishop out of Buffalo, 125 tackles in these two years.
22:36Three INTs, a forced fumble, two sacks.
22:39He's forced, he's turning the ball over or he's getting turnovers.
22:43And then you look at Cooper DeGene, utility guy, safety.
22:47I don't even know, we call him a safety, but he was taken in that second round as well.
22:53144 total tackles, two interceptions, two forced fumbles and a half, one half sack.
22:58These are guys that are turning, causing turnovers.
23:02So when it comes to being drafted in that second round, yes, you're looked at as an instant
23:07starter, but you got to be looked at as an instant guy as well.
23:11And yeah, I had more excitement watching Tyler Newbin year one than I did last year.
23:16And this is that year, Paul, where I don't want to get in this, oh, well, what if in a
23:21new scheme?
23:22What if, you know, was Shane Bowen holding this guy back?
23:24Was he holding?
23:25All bets are off when it comes to this year with Denard Wilson, especially in the secondary.
23:31If you're a guy that struggles in the secondary this year, when your defensive coordinator
23:35is a secondary minded coach, then you just don't have it.
23:41Maybe somewhere else, but not here.
23:43So all eyes are going to be on T Noob this year.
23:46And I think that, I think they kind of use him as a hybrid rover, you know, safety slash
23:51linebacker as well in different type of packages just to kind of get different guys on the
23:56field.
23:56Because remember, Jason Pinnock is back and I like him back there.
24:00He's he's he's stable back there.
24:02Let's go 2023.
24:04And I already I believe I'm you go you do what you want with this one.
24:08First round, number 24 pick Deontay Bank, Deontay Banks, second round, 57th overall JMS
24:16John Michael Schmitz.
24:18What are you thinking?
24:20And I'll start with John Michael Schmitz.
24:22Look, he's a he's a he's a solid enough center right now.
24:26You know what I mean?
24:27I mean, he's a second round.
24:30He's underwhelming to me, but he's not, you know, people he's a he's not a bust.
24:34He's he's he's he's solid.
24:36He he's durable enough.
24:38He gets the the offensive line organized.
24:41You know, he's he's a very good communicator.
24:44He's not a dominant player.
24:46I mean, he could get a second contract.
24:49Don't you agree?
24:49He could, you know, he might not, you know, and we'll see this is, you know, he he's in
24:55the middle of his rookie contract and now you have a whole new regime, right?
24:58Not a new GM, but you have a new regime, a new coaching staff, new offensive line coach
25:03and new John Harbaugh.
25:04And, you know, John Harbaugh is going to assess him and look at him and say, do I want to
25:08move forward with him or do I not?
25:10You know, you know, he had Linderbaum in Baltimore and that's a damn good player.
25:14You know, so do I want to upgrade or is that OK with me?
25:18So he's he's like a B minus ish kind of guy.
25:23JMS, you know, this will be a big year for him, obviously, year three.
25:26But we don't have to spend a lot of time in Deontay Banks.
25:29You know, I see athletically why he was a first round pick.
25:33He's big, right?
25:34You'd stand in the locker room.
25:35He's a big dude.
25:36Yes, he is.
25:37He's fast.
25:38He's strong.
25:39He's strong.
25:39You know, he's not a he's not a you know, he looks like a well, you know, a proportioned
25:44athlete.
25:45I see that.
25:46I have no idea when they were in meetings with this guy and interviews what they saw in
25:51him.
25:52You know, I have not had a meaningful interview with Deontay Banks in two years and three
25:58years in three years.
25:59And, you know, is that a litmus test for a player?
26:02No.
26:03But, you know, sometimes when you talk to a guy, you get a little sense.
26:06What's he about?
26:07You know, what's his what's his intellect?
26:09What's his values?
26:10You know, I've never just had a great conversation with him, but they're not terrible.
26:13They're just I don't see a lot there.
26:15You know, I don't see the professionalism and the ability to communicate.
26:20And obviously, Giants coaches have not to because, you know, good coaches have left the
26:24building because they couldn't get through to him.
26:26Right.
26:26And there's a new regime now.
26:28And as you said, Denard Wilson has a history as defensive back.
26:31You know, can he get something at him?
26:33Look, they didn't draft him to be a kickoff returner.
26:35You know, he right now is a bust with a capital B.
26:39He gets a chance to reverse that narrative.
26:41He also might not be on the team.
26:43Right.
26:43You know, if he doesn't show much, they'll cut him.
26:45You know, they'll cut him.
26:46And, you know, he's a first round pick who somebody else will pick up and stick on the
26:50roster on the practice squad and see if he can revitalize his career.
26:53So because of that draft, that draft gets an F for me.
26:59You know, JMS is not an F, like I said, but the first round pick swinging and missing so
27:03badly on a guy.
27:04He has caused so many problems.
27:06Ripple down affects banks by what they've had to do to patch that position.
27:10You know, you don't have to sign Paulson Adebo if if you have Cordell Flott and you have
27:16Deontay Banks.
27:17So what what do you do in free agency?
27:20You chase pretty good players and give them great money to fill holes that were created
27:27because your drafts did not work.
27:29Right.
27:30Deontay Banks should have been a guy who's been a serviceable or good player.
27:33You don't have to chase a Paulson Adebo because those things often don't work.
27:39That's you know, you're pouring maybe not good money into a not good pick.
27:43So it's like chopped for that reason.
27:46I have to chop you for that reason.
27:48I have to give them a F right now for 2023.
27:52I'm the I'm the lenient one here.
27:54I must have graded on scale.
27:56I gave them a D just because, you know, JMS is a middle of the pack type center.
28:02But the second round pick, maybe because I'm the undrafted free agent, Paul, like I walk
28:07around like when I look at a first and a second round pick, you guys have to be starters
28:12and not just a starter to where you're just a jag, just a guy out there like, oh, when
28:17you're just running out of the tunnel when we call your name, you're a guy that makes
28:21some sort of impact on the football, you know, at least eight on a football game, at least
28:27eight to nine games throughout the course of a season as a first, well, second round
28:31pick for sure.
28:32First round, you got to make at least 13 impact plays throughout the course of a season as
28:37well.
28:38I think when you said when you said what was that you wonder what that conversation
28:42was like, you know, when they spoke to Deontay Banks, I think Denard Wilson just came in
28:47and shot it to him straight and spoke his language.
28:50Hey, this is my plan for you that I can't cut you right now upstairs says I got to keep
28:56you.
28:56I got to fix you.
28:57But here's what we're not going to do.
28:59You ain't running me out of here like you like Jerome Henderson.
29:02You're not going to be play on my defense and not show effort.
29:05You're not going to your body language, anything and everything.
29:08If you want to be here, you want to play here, then I need to see more.
29:12I'm going to command more and how you respond.
29:15I think they're going to be all over him throughout the course of throughout OTAs and all.
29:20I think they're going to be on him to see how coachable he is, how hard they can coach
29:24him and how he responds to that.
29:27So I got a question for you.
29:29I got a question for you.
29:30What does your father do for a living?
29:32Coach football.
29:34That sounds like a son whose father was coaching football.
29:38That was good.
29:40That was good.
29:41But it's also...
29:42You sound...
29:43No, that was good.
29:46I mean, that's...
29:47Okay, okay.
29:48Look, I'm going to love you.
29:49I'm going to work with you.
29:50But here is what we're not going to do.
29:52That was good.
29:53I mean, I hope Denard Wilson...
29:56If he said those exact words that you just said, I would go like this and say...
30:02Let's see if it works.
30:03That was good.
30:04Your father taught you something.
30:06But it was spoken as a coach's son.
30:09And again, it's spoken as an undrafted free agent as well, Paul.
30:13It's just...
30:13Football ain't fair.
30:15The first-rounders get all the opportunities in the world.
30:19Eli Apple played, what?
30:21Eight, nine seasons after not...
30:24Well, I guess in Cincinnati he was okay for a little bit.
30:26But the first and second-rounders, they get all of the opportunities.
30:30A new coordinator comes in and you can look at the tape and be like, I don't know what
30:36I'm going to do with this guy, but I have to fix him because Upstairs said that I have
30:41to at least try and fix him.
30:43So I think it's just one of those...
30:46It's a mixture of both.
30:47But Denard Wilson is going to come in straight away and just be like, hey, man, if I don't
30:52see X, Y, Z, then you are B, Y, E.
30:55Like, it's bye.
30:56It's...
30:56You're gone, bro.
30:57So I think that's where that is.
30:59But for those guys, you gave them an F, I gave them a D.
31:04Last but not...
31:05You know what?
31:05D is probably more appropriate because it's not fair to John Michael Schmitz to give them
31:10an F, right?
31:11And like I said, Schmitz is like a B, B minus to me.
31:15I was just saying, no matter what JMS did, it couldn't have done anything because the
31:19first guy was so bad that I'm putting a blanket over it.
31:23You're probably more fair with the D, but look, we both agree Deontay Banks is not it
31:27right now.
31:28Well, he's not it, but I gave him a little grace because that first year under Wink Martindale.
31:33So I'm looking at Denard Wilson like maybe, hey, if you can play him like Wink played him,
31:38then maybe we can get something out of him.
31:40And he was playing with the confidence and he would give something during interviews back
31:45then.
31:45We just haven't seen it now.
31:47So hopefully, Paul, he can play well.
31:48We have more Blue Rush.
31:49Tate Banks, we'd love to have you on Blue Rush sometime this season if you're balling
31:54out for sure.
31:55Now we go to the most tricky draft for the Giants in recent year.
32:01This 2022 draft, first round, obviously grabbed Kayvon at number five, first round Evan Neal
32:08at number seven, and then they traded into the second round to grab Wondell Robinson at
32:1443.
32:15Paul, the floor is yours.
32:18Let's start with Wondell, a very good player, you know, not a superstar, very good player.
32:23Look at the contract he just signed, right?
32:25So Wondell Robinson was a success as a second round pick when he was healthy.
32:30He was he was, you know, he missed he missed, you know, time with an ACL.
32:34He just had his best season.
32:36A gamer, a like I said, not a star, not as versatile as maybe you want some of your receivers
32:43to be great guy, great locker room guy, leader in his own way.
32:49So sorry to see him go and leave the locker room.
32:52Always a great person to talk to.
32:54The Titans will be better off for getting him.
32:56He got like, what, $19 million a year.
32:59So you can't tell me that he was not a really good second round pick because he just got
33:02paid by somebody, right?
33:04For a second contract.
33:05The Giants wanted him, but not for that money.
33:06So, you know, he's he's he was a successful second round pick.
33:11No question.
33:12OK, you then you go to hold on one second.
33:17I don't know if that's you seeing something there.
33:19Hold on.
33:22OK, look, you wanted those first two guys, number five and number seven.
33:26You want them to them to transform the franchise, right?
33:31And it has not done that.
33:32You know, at number five, Kayvon is a good player.
33:35He's a good player.
33:36You know, he's not the edge rush monster that we thought he might be right now.
33:42He showed that only in flashes.
33:43What do you have like seven sacks a senior year at Oregon?
33:46You know, he was more of a athlete who, you know, his production was fine, but he was an
33:52athletic guy who you say, wow, his potential is tremendous.
33:57He's a deep thinker, right?
33:58A little bit of an unusual guy.
34:01I like him.
34:02I like talking to him.
34:03Um, good player, not a great player.
34:06And, um, is he worth the number five pick right now?
34:09No, you know, that, that is not an equal, you know, his production is not equal to, you
34:14know, his, his draft status, which was incredibly high.
34:17You know, he had 11 and a half sacks a couple of years ago and then got hurt.
34:20So, um, good player, good player.
34:22Is he going to be resigned?
34:24Probably not.
34:25He's going to playing on the fifth year option.
34:27And, um, you know, if he plays great, he'll probably go in free agency and go elsewhere.
34:30If he plays poorly, the giants will just let him go.
34:33Now, if Abdul Carter doesn't play great and then Kayvon plays great, maybe they have to
34:38resign him.
34:38So we'll see.
34:39There's a lot of, you know, moving parts there, but, um, good player, good player,
34:43not the fifth round pick, not the fifth pick in a draft, but a good player.
34:46Evan Neal.
34:47Also, we don't have to spend a lot of time on, you know, um, what does it say about the
34:51development in this franchise where Evan Neal's best season was his first year.
34:55Um, um, Deontay Banks, his best season was his first year, right?
34:59Evan Neal is a failed right tackle, um, massive man.
35:02Um, I don't kill the giants for taking him at number seven, because I would say 25 teams
35:09in the league had them rated in the top 10, maybe more.
35:12Um, the giants didn't take him at seven.
35:14Someone would have taken him at eight or nine or 10.
35:16You know what I mean?
35:17Um, you know, he was a, that kind of a prospect, you know, he's the guy you pick coming off
35:21the bus, six, seven, two, two, three 30 and not fat, you know, lean enough, uh, big,
35:28big, massive man, natural strength just hadn't worked out.
35:31You know, um, mentally, is he strong enough?
35:33I don't know.
35:34Physically he is.
35:35Um, um, they tried to, uh, hail Mary at guard last year.
35:38Didn't work.
35:39Uh, it seemed like the coaching staff was really sour on him.
35:41Didn't play at all.
35:42I mean, that's unbelievable.
35:43Didn't play at all.
35:44Um, you know, I wish, I would say shocked that John Harvard didn't look at him and say,
35:49Hey, he's your failed project, not mine.
35:52He's out.
35:53You know, I can, but Harbaugh looked at him and said, yeah, pay him the minimum and, um,
35:57we'll work with him.
35:58You know, we, we liked him coming out of the draft in Baltimore.
36:01So, um, same thing with Josh Zudu.
36:03Okay.
36:03We'll try him.
36:04And if he's no good, you know, we sign him to $1.2 million veteran minimum, no guaranteed.
36:09He, that's his contract.
36:10No guarantees.
36:11Um, you know, imagine that for the number seven pick in the draft, no guarantees shows
36:15you Evan Neal wanted to stay and prove himself because he could have gotten maybe a little
36:19more somewhere else.
36:20Um, if he doesn't work out, they'll cut him in training camp at the end of training camp.
36:25Um, they still going to look him at guard.
36:27So, but he's a, he's a bust right now.
36:29So, um, between Kavon, Wandale and Evan Neal, um, you have, uh, you know, Wandale gets a pretty
36:37good, a good grade.
36:38Kavon gets an okay grade.
36:40Evan Neal gets a failing grade.
36:41So that whole thing right there is like in a C plus range in my mind.
36:45Okay.
36:46I gave it a C minus and I gave it, I gave it, and I, you know, I kind of,
36:50I, I don't want
36:53to be caught a hater.
36:54Like I kind of, I graded Wandale down a little bit because I don't know if he has that season.
36:59If Malik neighbors doesn't go down, like he had to be the number one option in the receiver
37:05core.
37:05I thought Darius Slayton should have stepped up and had a lot more targets and catches,
37:10but you had to go with the sure thing, the guy who was making plays.
37:13So, uh, but at the end of the day, you still got to catch the football.
37:15So yeah, that's why I kind of gave that to C minus Kavon.
37:18I just want to run.
37:19I want to run down the five pass rushers or the edge rushers that were drafted, uh, in
37:24the first round and see where you would rank him.
37:26Uh, number one, overall, Trayvon Walker went to, uh, Jacksonville, Aiden Hutchinson.
37:31We know what he is.
37:33Kavon went fifth overall, Jermaine Johnson to the Jets at 26.
37:36And then George Karlaftis, uh, number 30 overall to Kansas city.
37:41Where would you rank Kavon in that top in that five?
37:46In the middle, right?
37:48Kind of where he was drafted, right?
37:50Yeah.
37:50In the middle.
37:51Um, but you know, like I said, I mean, he, he's, you want more, you want more from Kavon,
37:55right?
37:56You want more.
37:56Um, he's not a bad player, you know, he's versatile.
37:59I think he, he, he, he hustles against the run.
38:02He's a smart player, but you want more, you want more, you know, and, um, um, you know,
38:07he'll, he'll, if he's healthy and he's not with the giants after this year, he'll go somewhere
38:11else and continue his career.
38:12You know, he's not a bust, um, but you want more, you know, I, and, and I think he wants
38:16more and he wants to be paid more.
38:18So he wants, you know, he needs to put up good tape and good numbers and things like
38:23that.
38:24You know, um, a couple of years ago with 11 and a half sacks, we thought he was a budding
38:27star and it just hasn't worked out that way for, um, you know, not just his own failings.
38:33Um, so we need to see, we need to stay healthy first of all, and he needs to show the
38:38giants,
38:38look, it's not just Burns and, and Abdul, you know what I mean?
38:42You have to keep me on the field here.
38:44We can play together the three of us because you can't do without me.
38:48So we'll see if he can do that.
38:49Yeah.
38:49I mean, you don't hear people calling it to calling those three pass rushers anymore.
38:53The big three, I don't think I've heard the big three use, uh, all off season.
38:57It's just people, it's just Brian Burns and Abdul Carter.
39:01And they, you're not even calling them a duo.
39:03You're just talking about those two guys individually at this point.
39:07So you hope these three can get together and really show, like really show that and live
39:11up to all that hype.
39:13Uh, final thought, Paul, we're one week away until the NFL draft final thought to a part
39:20of someone.
39:22Well, look, there's a lot there, you know, the Dexter Lawrence thing is kind of hovering
39:25all, all over this and it is a soft that the draft is a soft deadline, not a hard deadline,
39:30but it's a soft deadline, certainly for picks this year, which is what they would want.
39:34You know, uh, John Harbaugh wants another pick, you know, they don't have a third round
39:37pick for Jackson Dart, which is fine, but they would like another second or third round
39:41pick this year.
39:41They think there's work to do on the roster.
39:43You know, you don't want to not have a third round pick, right?
39:46You know, you get Jackson Dart, that's great, but then you have to live with not having a
39:49third round pick.
39:50It's a net win for the Giants, but you know, Harbaugh wants a third round pick or a second
39:54round pick.
39:55That's, that's natural for that.
39:57Yeah.
39:57I mean, I think it'll be very interesting to see.
39:59Um, uh, Joe Shane was mentioning about trades, um, trade down.
40:02I think the Giants would trade down.
40:04I, you know, if there's four or five players in a range and he can trade down to an area
40:09where he's definitely going to get one of those guys, does anybody want to trade up?
40:13Um, there's a chance there's only one quarterback taken in the first round.
40:17We know he'll be the first pick in a draft.
40:18Does Ty Simpson go somewhere in the first round?
40:21Maybe, probably, but maybe not.
40:23So when teams aren't trading up for quarterbacks, then you don't know what they want to trade
40:28up for.
40:29Do they want to trade up for a safety?
40:30Do they want to trade up for a guard?
40:31I don't know.
40:32Um, do they want to trade up for a running back?
40:34Maybe this year, maybe not.
40:36So, um, it's easy to say, Joe Shane trade down.
40:39You got to have a partner to trade down.
40:40You can't do it with yourself.
40:41So, um, it'll be interesting as always.
40:43We'll talk, you know, we'll do another one of these before the draft.
40:46Um, you know, this is a big time of year for the Giants.
40:48Really big.
40:50All right.
40:50A lot can happen within this next week.
40:53Uh, what did we learn today?
40:54That John Harbaugh really has his hands full with this roster and the word is impasse, not impasse.
40:59Uh, to all those who don't hang out in Montreal like I do.
41:04Uh, Paul, appreciate you hopping on with us again, my man.
41:08And thank you all for watching another episode of Blue Rush.
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