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00:01What was your reaction or your thought around this attack which took place today's bag?
00:07Pakistan then was a mass murder massacre of civilian Afghan people.
00:16Pakistan is doing this aggression for the last two, for the last five decades,
00:22they are blatantly interfering in the Afghan affairs.
00:31Pakistan is a liar state. It's part of their policy. They are even killing their own people
00:38through drone attacks. They are bombarding. It's matchless.
00:48What do you think is the most realistic path towards ceasefire in this situation?
00:53When you support and pump communities with weapons and with the extremist ideology
01:03to fight in Afghanistan, to fight in Kashmir, so what do you expect the third and fourth generation?
01:19Today, on March 19, 2026, both Afghanistan and Pakistan are teetering on the edge of a full-scale war.
01:28Airstrikes have hit Kabul hospitals wherein over hundreds of civilian casualties.
01:35Many tens and thousands have been displaced and now this has sparked declaration of full-scale war.
01:43Today, we are being joined by Sadar Shrams, who happens to be a former Afghan diplomat in Islamabad
01:50and happens to know both sides intimately and will explain as the real drivers behind this deadly escalation.
01:59Thank you, Mr. Shrams, for joining us for this exclusive interview.
02:04Mr. Shrams, first, I'd like to understand from you, what was your reaction or your thought around this attack
02:11which took place two days back from Pakistan wherein a Kabul hospital was targeted over 400 civilian casualties?
02:18What was your reaction?
02:21Thank you so much.
02:23So, in fact, what Pakistan done was a mass murder massacre of civilian Afghan people.
02:30So, I strongly condemn this act of aggression, this inhuman act of Pakistan, this barbarism of Pakistan.
02:40It's in no way acceptable. It's against the international law. It's against the international humanitarian law
02:47by targeting drug addicts or rehabilitation center, and they were hoping for a bright future.
02:57And most of them were completing their recovery treatment over there, and they were returning to their normal lives.
03:05But this is not the first time. Pakistan is doing this aggression for the last two, for the last five
03:13decades.
03:14They are blatantly interfering in the Afghan affairs. But since last year, they have started directly.
03:22Previously, they were using proxies to interfere and to increase its influence in Afghanistan.
03:29Now, they have come forward and their evil military, which have very worst track record of human rights violation.
03:38They did in Bangladesh.
03:40They are doing it to their own people in Balochistan. They are doing atrocities against people in the tribal areas.
03:46They are killing Pashtuns. So now they are directly hitting and bombing civilians in Afghanistan.
03:52We witnessed last month that they bombed a family and killing 18 of a family members.
04:00And the international community, the world media, everyone saw that they witnessed.
04:05It was verified. The UN confirmed that these were purely civilians.
04:10And now the Kabul attack is also a civilian target they hit.
04:15Mr. Shams, if we look at the response that followed after this attack, this deadly attack,
04:21there has been a pattern as to how Pakistan responds when it comes to such attacks or when it comes
04:26to
04:26terrorist attacks. We are seeing the same kind of patterns when something like this has happened
04:31to India as well. So this time around as well, we have this statement from the Pakistan's information
04:37minister, wherein he has completely backed out from taking any responsibility of this attack and
04:43instead has gone on record saying it's a Taliban propaganda. How do you look at this response?
04:49The thing is that Pakistan is a liar state. It's part of their policy. They are even killing their
04:57own people through drone attacks. They are bombarding. It's matchless and never in the world you can see
05:05to bomb your own people. But they are bombing their own people. They killed hundreds of thousands of
05:11their own people in Bangladesh. And then the Bangla people were able to get their independence.
05:19So when you look at the track record of Pakistan military, so their hands are stained with blood
05:27of innocent people when they target their own people. So it's not like far from reality that they can
05:33target and they will deny. So everyone saw that last month they killed a teen of only one family,
05:39a one child and one adult was left in Jalalabad in Besut district. And now they killed a civilian
05:47and a totally, which should be protected under international law, a hospital, a treatment center. And they
05:55deliberately attacked it. They know that this center was turned, this was previously in a military area.
06:03But in 2016-17, it was transformed into a treatment center. Everyone knows, the international community knows,
06:10there were aid agencies extending aid and supporting that center. So it's, it's an obvious, Pakistan has an
06:17embassy in Afghanistan. So it's, it's not acceptable. They are lying. As we move forward, and if we talk about
06:25these strikes from Pakistan, what do you think of these strikes, Mr. Shams, are these just a pressure
06:33tactic or this, or, or is this a start of a war that could actually, or has the potential to
06:40topple the
06:40Taliban government or Taliban rule there in Afghanistan? I would say this is not a war against
06:47Taliban. It's war against Afghanistan. It's war against Afghan people. So they cannot topple Afghanistan.
06:54They, they are trying this for the last five decades. Afghanistan is a nation which has a strong
07:01roots. It's a nation. It's a united nation. It's a, it's not like divided, just like Pakistan. There is no
07:09single entity in Afghanistan, single ethnic group or political group that want the disintegration of
07:16Afghanistan. But there are several parties, there are several ethnicities, political movements in
07:23Pakistan. They don't want to be with Pakistan. They say that it was a conspiracy that they became part
07:29of Pakistan, whether it's Pashtuns in the, in the and the tribal areas, whether it's Baloch and even other
07:36people. Pakistan is not even a nation. It's a, it's a, it's a setup that was made to, to implement
07:42the, the agendas of the Western powers. So it's very obvious. So yeah, they, they would like to
07:50destabilize Afghanistan. They want a civil war and civil fighting between different factions, which
07:57they are looking now to support, but this will fail because this time now I would, I can say that
08:04almost
08:05100% of Afghan people, they are against Pakistan, they hate Pakistan. So previously we could say
08:11that, okay, now they were blaming India or other countries that they are motivating Afghans to act
08:18against Pakistan. Now it's 100%. When you kill civilians, so no one will support you. So now Pakistan,
08:25since the, their defense minister, their higher officials, their military officials, they are openly
08:31saying that Afghanistan is an enemy state. So for Afghan, it's now very clear that Pakistan is an enemy.
08:38You just made this mention about the defense minister and the kind of statement that he has
08:43been making. In your opinion, what, how do you perceive what's going to be the timeline of this
08:50conflict that has been going on and off between Pakistan and Afghanistan, specifically from last few
08:55months given? Just last month only, the defense minister declared that it's going to be an open war.
09:01How do you perceive the timeline?
09:03So it's, it's a planned war from Pakistani side. And we cannot also ignore the international
09:12developments, the regional developments, the fight and the war in the Middle East,
09:16and how they try to become closer to the new US administration. They want to implement their
09:26agendas. Also, President Trump openly told that I want Bagram Air Base. So, so it seems there are
09:34things that maybe in the background, they have committed some projects to implement in this area.
09:41But the main reason is, they want to destabilize Afghanistan, they want to destroy the infrastructure
09:48that were built in the past 20, 25 years with the support of international community, even if they
09:55dare to hit the hospitals and treatment centers and civilian houses. So they are destroying every
10:01infrastructure, even their leading journalists, they are advising their government to destroy
10:07the economy of Afghanistan, bridges, hospitals, road infrastructure, and even their, their crops
10:15and fields. So it's the, the mindset of the Pakistan, which is a fascist regime. Sorry, I would say.
10:22So looking at that, so it's a planned war from a Pakistani side, and it shows their frustration
10:29and desperation. They were thinking that when the Taliban come to power, so they will obey whatever
10:34they want. They would promote their foreign policy, their foreign agenda, and also they wanted that
10:45Afghanistan should become a client state of Pakistan. But Taliban realizing their past 20 years,
10:52how they, they sold Taliban to the U.S. after 9-1-1 and how they treated and imprisoned them.
10:59So now
10:59Taliban is a bit different. Their policy has changed. So now it enraged Pakistan and went to that
11:04level that they openly declared war against Afghanistan. Mr. Shamsi, we talk about the factors
11:11in this conflict between Afghanistan and Pakistan. There are multiple factors. There's TTP, there's Taliban.
11:20There's Durant line also, this unrecognized factor. Do you think this is one of the driving
11:27for factors which is leading to this fighting and will Afghanistan ever be in a position to accept it?
11:36Yeah, that's of course, like when we said there are many reasons and there are many dimensions to this
11:42conflict. So one of the core issue is the Durant line. And the Durant line is an issue that is
11:48the part of
11:49the Afghanistan territorial integrity. And none of the Afghan government has ever accepted this
11:59international boundary. But the consecutive Afghan governments, they also in the meanwhile,
12:08they were not accepting the Durant line, but they did not declare any open war against Pakistan. And the
12:12reason was that on both sides of the Durant line, the same tribe, same people, same ethnicity, same language,
12:18religion, they were living. Even in the previous presidency of President Karzai, he was open that
12:26even if Pakistan is shelling and mortaring or bombing mortars on Afghan soil of the Durant line, part of the
12:36Durant line, we will not hit back because Pakistan want to kill people on both sides so that we can
12:43be
12:43incited and we also hit back. So that was the policy. So now Pakistan understands that none of the Afghan
12:53government, even Taliban, which were believed to have close relations with Pakistan, they are unable to,
12:58they are unwilling to accept this as international boundary. So yes, this is one of the core issues.
13:03But now we see that Pakistan's objectives are what envisage Pakistan is the beyond Durant line.
13:13They want to control Kabul even, they want to have access to the Central Asia and implement their evil
13:21agendas. Now the Taliban have even provided evidence that they are supporting the Daesh Khurasana, the ISIS.
13:29So it's an alarming thing, not only for Afghanistan, but for the region. They want to destabilize
13:36Afghanistan and then destabilize the whole region.
13:40Mr. Shams, if we talk about the recent foreign relationship developments, a lot has been shared,
13:49a lot has changed in the last six months, specifically when it comes to Afghanistan and India.
13:54Now, post this escalation, there have been a number of times where Pakistan has claimed that Afghanistan
14:01has become an Indian proxy. For you, for someone who has been on both sides, has witnessed both sides
14:08very intimately, be it Pakistan or be it Afghanistan, in how much hold does, how much truth does this
14:15statement hold in today's day and age, when Pakistan claims that Afghanistan has become an Indian proxy?
14:24I firmly believe that this is totally baseless. The reason is that Pakistan doesn't accept Afghanistan as a sovereign state,
14:35a state that can have independent relations with any nation, with any country, with any organization.
14:42So how Pakistan dare to even point at what type of relationship Afghanistan is supposed to have with any nation,
14:51including India?
14:53With India, Afghanistan has a very historical relation.
14:57We, this was the same region. We have shared history, shared culture, everything is shared.
15:04We have even a large population of Afghans living in India. And we had, unfortunately, due to the conflicts and
15:11war,
15:11we had Sikh population, we have Hindu population, even we today have. So it's a shared territory. We shared a
15:20history.
15:20So the thing is that the, even the India, like before the, when our King Amanullah declared independence, like the
15:33reclamation of independence, because it was for a brief period of time against the British India.
15:38So at that time, the independence movement were going on in India. And the leader of that was Raja Mahindra
15:49Prathab. And in 1916, I believe, 16 or 17, the first government in exile of India was declared in Kabul.
16:02So it was 1916 and 17, way before Pakistan was born or Pakistan was created. So, so it's a, it's
16:10a relationship because Afghanistan was at that time an inspiration for the free world, because that was the first country
16:16who got reclaimed its independence from the colonial rule.
16:20And then like the, and Raja Mahindra Prathab was a Hindu. And then his cabinet was Maulana Ubaidullah Sindhi, Maulana
16:28Barakatullah, his was prime minister. So it was a true representation of an Indian, of a united India.
16:36India. So now it's very baseless because looking at all these history, these shared history relationship. So it's a, it's
16:44a natural relationship. We have similar commonalities with Iran. We have with other central Asian states.
16:50So that doesn't make sense that Pakistan, but initially when I pointed that what Pakistan wants is that they want
16:58to dictate Afghanistan. It should be a client. That's not acceptable. So then they will make excuses and blames.
17:05We have seen in the last few months, ever since the takeover of Taliban there in Afghanistan, there have been
17:12lots of changes where it rules and reforms when it comes to women. Women rights are not being acknowledged at
17:20all there in Afghanistan. And now moving forward, the kind of strikes that are being taking place from Pakistan side,
17:28which has eventually led to several civilian casualties.
17:32Do you think at this point at this point at this point at this point going to hurt the legitimacy
17:36of Taliban in Afghanistan?
17:41Yeah, that's one of the disaster of the Taliban government right now. They so far have not given the Afghans,
17:53Afghan men and women and youth and every sector their due rights. And it's unacceptable. It's unbelievable. In 21st century,
18:04you are banning
18:04women and girls and not to attend school. You are banning girls and not to attend school. You are banning
18:07women not to go for work.
18:09So you are paralyzing the society. 50% of the society are sitting home and not taking part in the
18:17society, in the development, in the rehabilitation.
18:21So we can see in India, it's a vibrant society. So women is part of every, every, every, every part
18:27of the society in the West. Even it's not comparable, but even in our region where we have India and
18:33other nations in Iran, you can see.
18:35So it's, it's, it's, it's, it's unbelievable. It's not, it cannot sustain in this way. And that's one of the
18:42major demand of Afghan people that right from today, this ban should be lifted.
18:48Women should be allowed to work, to contribute in the development of society. And women treat them as an equal
18:55human being, just like men. There is no difference. And there is no religious thing that you implement or enforce
19:05these, your own oriented interpretation of Islam.
19:08We have leading Muslim countries, Muslim nations, who are giving equal rights to all men and women. So that's one
19:16of the, the drawback, the shortcoming, or the, I would say, even that a disastrous policy of Taliban. It's a
19:22self-harm, a suicidal policy of Taliban.
19:25So we look forward that after suffering on the international and regional stage, that even Pakistan is there to bomb
19:37without any impunity and without any fear and they're hitting.
19:43So there is need to confront Pakistan with a united Afghanistan and the unity of Afghanistan is possible only when
19:51you give them equal rights, when you give the, all the political rights, the civil rights, the human rights, including
19:59everything.
20:00So in that, when you make a government inclusive of all ethnicities of all political parties and everyone, so then
20:08you can make a strong Afghanistan, which can confront Pakistan.
20:12And the next question, what do you think is the most realistic path towards ceasefire in this situation?
20:20A. B. Do you really think TTP is really that big of a problem for Pakistan at this moment? Or
20:28is it just exaggerating to just justify its attacks on Afghanistan?
20:33A. B. Yeah, it's a, it's not that major or bigger problem for Pakistan. Pakistan army is claiming to be
20:44the number, that number and those number of the world army.
20:49A. B. They are having air power, they are having even nuclear power and whatever. TTP is only in the
20:57tribal belts in the Pashtun area, which Pakistan intentionally created to have a proxy hand, to have an open hand,
21:08to have a proxy role in Afghanistan, because all the TTP, the area that they control or they have influence
21:15is along the Durand line.
21:16A. B. So it's not today. For the past 50 years, they armed those people and they were supporting Mujahideen
21:24and then later Taliban and then again Taliban.
21:27A. B. So when you support and pump communities with weapons and with the extremist ideology to fight in Afghanistan,
21:40to fight in Kashmir, so what do you expect?
21:43A. B. The third and fourth generation. So now they are raising questions that if you ask me to raise
21:49the Islamic flag or bring Islam into Kashmir and bring Islam into Kabul?
21:55A. B. So why not bring Islam into Islamabad? So that's now the question it was raised for the past
22:01two, three decades.
22:02A. B. It's a Pakistan internal problem. They nurtured terrorism. They nurtured radicalism. They nurtured religious extremism.
22:09A. B. Now it's paying back. So that's the reason that it's not that larger issue.
22:16A. B. But they want to have a threshold of the militancy in the tribal areas to justify the military
22:24presence because even the Durand line, which is, as I mentioned, it's not a legitimate international border.
22:33A. B. And Afghanistan has never accepted it. But even there were no military because it was almost a buffer
22:42area.
22:43A. B. There were no military presence. But Pakistan, through this TTP and through the militants, they convinced the international
22:52community and met like the propagated that, OK, there is a need that I should intervene.
22:57A. B. And then in the past 2006 and 7 and 8 and 9, they intervened and then they did
23:03atrocities against these tribal people because it was a semi-autonomous area.
23:08A. B. So it is a problem because some part is because they are radicalized and what they were taught
23:17by Pakistani military that you should sacrifice for Islam, now they are sacrificing.
23:23A. B. But part is when they also differentiate as a good Taliban and bad Taliban, so there are still
23:29good Taliban, which they still want to keep maybe tomorrow to use against India and Afghanistan or somewhere else because
23:36they are getting projects from anywhere and they are ready because it's a contracted army and military.
23:43A. B. So yes, some part is problem, but some is their controlled insurgency.
23:48A. B. My last question to you, Mr. Shamsa, what are the expectations from the international community and specifically when
23:55we talk about India, given how we have seen several attempts have been made in the last six months especially
24:00to strengthen the ties between India and Afghanistan.
24:04A. B. We saw how successful Mr. Shamsa's visit to India was, lots of changes to place post that. So
24:13what are the expectations?
24:16A. B. Yeah, the expectations from international community, unfortunately, due to the illegitimacy of the Taliban government, it's not a
24:25recognized government globally.
24:27A. B. So it's a very huge problem for the under-diplomatic front for the current defective authorities of Afghanistan.
24:36A. B. They have no representation in the United Nations, in the Islamic conference, at the International Forum to project
24:44what Pakistan is doing.
24:45A. B. They are killing civilians and they are promoting their own agendas in the region.
24:51A. B. They are destabilizing the region.
24:53A. B. So this is one vacuum which needs to be filled.
24:57A. B. So it first goes to the Taliban government.
25:00A. B. They should make changes.
25:02A. B. They should get legitimacy domestically.
25:06A. B. And then based on those, they can then go for the international legitimacy.
25:11A. B. So that's one part.
25:13A. B. In addition, in the meanwhile, the Pakistani military is destabilizing the region.
25:20A. B. It's not only threatening for Pakistan, but it's also for the region and those countries which are more
25:27vulnerable to Pakistani policies.
25:30A. B. They should also intervene.
25:31A. B. We know that due to the Middle East and the other international conflicts, now the attention toward Afghanistan
25:37-Pakistan conflict is quite minimized.
25:41A. B. It's not interested.
25:43A. B. But the regional players should be interested because it will affect them anyways.
25:48A. B. And I would say that India-Pakistan relationship should go beyond only rehabilitation or economic and development because
25:58they should think on defense cooperation also.
26:02A. B. Because that's one of the point that Pakistan is very, become very aggressive and they start attacking.
26:09A. B. You remember that when the Taliban foreign minister Mottaki was in Delhi, the first attack of Kabul happened.
26:15A. B. The bombardment happened on that visit.
26:17A. B. It seems that Pakistan is very annoyed and irritated.
26:22A. B. It's obvious because of their mentality and their policies that they want a client state.
26:29A. B. So that's the point that India and Afghanistan should consider promoting defense ties also.
26:37A. B. They should consider whatever possible because it's a threat which is both the nations are facing.
26:44A. B. I would say not only both the nations, the whole region should become unified in fighting Pakistani hegemony
26:52and this aggressive and violent policy.
26:57A. B. Thank you, Mr. Shams, for your most unfiltered insights into South Asia is one of the most dangerous
27:04flashpoints.
27:06A. B. As the fragile ceasefire holds for now, the stakes wouldn't be higher.
27:11A. B. Thank you for your insights, Mr. Shams.
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