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00:00Jarvis Landry, who continues to make appearances or comments on the 4th and South podcast,
00:06continued with his strong words about former Browns head coach Kevin Stefanski.
00:10So you're telling me that record, he deserves two-time coach of the year?
00:15Maybe he got it because he was coaching the Cleveland Browns.
00:19First year he came in, we made some noise.
00:22Obviously the years before we hadn't had no success, so I do think it was fitting and well-deserved.
00:27I know when I was there for 100% fact, when we were struggling as an offense,
00:32I know Kevin Stefanski himself gave up play calling to AVP.
00:36The same thing that he's done, that we have guys that have told us,
00:39that he's done throughout the years of not being able to get it done as a play caller
00:43and then putting it off on somebody else.
00:45Then the team gets success and then he takes over play calling again.
00:49I don't know how much history he's going to have as a head coach,
00:52but again, with this record,
00:54the only thing he really got going for him is those two-time coach of the year.
01:00So this has obviously led people down the rabbit hole of Jarvis was only here for two years
01:05with Kevin Stefanski and AVP.
01:07It was 2020 and 2021.
01:09So they've started playing kind of amateur detective.
01:13On what point did he cede this over to AVP and at what point did he take them back?
01:18I'm less interested in this and I think I'm just more interested in just the amount of former Browns,
01:26Jarvis maybe being the loudest of them,
01:29who have come out and had their say about Kevin Stefanski now that he's been fired.
01:32Okay, first off, agree 100%.
01:33I don't care how many times I gave up the play calling and then took it back.
01:36I just don't.
01:36It doesn't matter to me at all.
01:37But I am interested in the same thing you're interested in.
01:39Because it feels like for that couple-year stretch,
01:42like we were taking crazy pills trying to tell everyone what was going on with Stefanski
01:46and no one wanted to believe anything.
01:48And so now, are the players rewriting history?
01:51Is that the suggestion here?
01:52The players are rewriting how this all went down?
01:54I mean, it is.
01:56I don't love the idea that these guys have all been sitting on any of these takes
02:00for as long as they have.
02:02And now that Kevin's been fired and obviously subsequently hired somewhere else,
02:07now I got to tell you the truth on how it was.
02:10It was like, all right, that feels a little opportunistic.
02:13At the same point.
02:14Because like for Jarvis, for instance, though,
02:16like if Jarvis says all sorts of nasty things about Stefanski
02:19while he's still the head coach of the Browns,
02:21there's probably a lot of people in the Browns building that he likes, respects, etc.
02:24that'll probably get pretty upset by that.
02:26Totally fair.
02:27So it's like open season now that he's away from the Browns,
02:30not the Browns head coach anymore.
02:31And it seems more like the Browns are moving off of Stefanski,
02:34you know, even like in a positive way.
02:36So I don't love that this feels a little opportunistic.
02:39I also, I do think, listen, I don't care, you don't care.
02:42I think if this is Jarvis trying to showcase, he can be part of the media.
02:48I think you do have to put the terms and conditions here.
02:51I think you need to put when this happened.
02:53Because I heard plenty of people.
02:56I mean, I always take more info than less.
02:57Yeah, I mean, I've heard plenty of people try and go through,
02:59oh, when did it happen?
03:00It doesn't change anything for me, though.
03:02It doesn't, but I think for clarity's sake,
03:06I think it's really important that you share as much detail as possible.
03:10I also will say it's tough for me to put too much of this on Kevin
03:15because the other guy who was equal parts of the failure here,
03:19or some might suggest was more to blame for the failure here,
03:22is still here on Andrew Barry.
03:24All right, maybe one other spin on this, I guess.
03:26Maybe for a reason why I should care.
03:27I'm trying to figure out reasons why I should care about the play calling stuff.
03:31If he gave it up for Ken Dorsey in the middle of the season
03:34when that season was going south,
03:35and then he also gave it to Tommy Reese mid-season
03:37when that season started to go south,
03:39it's not crazy to think if he gave it up with Jarvis AVP when he was there,
03:44that's one thing.
03:45It's not crazy to think he also gave it up right around
03:49or before the time that the Browns got Joe Flacco,
03:51and then, in fact, all this credit for Joe Flacco and Kevin Stefanski
03:55should at least some of it be going to AVP and somebody else.
03:58So what would be weird about that is, though, Jarvis wasn't here.
04:01No, I know.
04:02So I think that's the...
04:04I'm continuing on the road, though.
04:05If he did it in that season, then obviously it continued.
04:08The moment that it starts to struggle is the pattern here, right?
04:10And so it's absence of Jarvis being there.
04:12It's more the idea that the pattern exists.
04:15And so in that season when things started to go south,
04:17he would have given it up,
04:18and then all this credit going to Joe
04:20probably isn't something that should actually be going to
04:23a combination of Stefanski and Joe.
04:25It should probably be AVP and Joe.
04:27I also think, while we're on the topic of play calling,
04:31Kevin and the Browns in general
04:33went out of their way to talk about
04:36how little play calling actually really did matter.
04:40And, you know, it's kind of a nothing burger
04:43for then Kevin in half of the seasons he was here
04:47to see play calling.
04:48So does it matter or does it not matter?
04:50Because I think NFL head coaches,
04:53when you're like McVay or Shanahan,
04:55you let everybody know how much it matters.
04:58When everybody thinks you're the greatest to do something,
05:01you let everybody know how,
05:03hey, I'm the play caller.
05:04That's my job.
05:05Mike LaFleur, you're going to have to go elsewhere
05:07to be a play caller because this is my gig, right?
05:10Yeah.
05:11And then when you're like Kevin Stefanski,
05:13you kind of get to play both sides.
05:16And it was something that I thought was frustrating with Kevin
05:18was being mired in the,
05:20well, we don't really know,
05:21is that play calling is one of the things
05:25that people tout about you around the NFL
05:27when you're having a good season.
05:29And then when you're having a bad season,
05:31oh, I just, you know, it's not really a big deal.
05:34Who calls plays doesn't really matter.
05:35Well, it's more, I would ask,
05:36what is it you do well?
05:38Like, what is it that you're great at?
05:40Because like he was hanging on,
05:41that was his calling card.
05:42That's the thing that people should have liked the most about him
05:44was his play calling ability.
05:45But he's not a rah-rah guy.
05:47He doesn't lead the locker room in any sort of way.
05:49Like he's not, he's not a player's coach
05:51as evidenced by Jarvis and the other clips that we've heard.
05:53Like there's, there's nothing he does at a high level.
05:57It's all, it all feels like one big con.
05:59So this is, this is,
06:01we have a direct equivalent in the NFL draft.
06:04What does everybody say is like the best thing
06:07about J.J. McCarthy?
06:09He's a gamer.
06:10He's a gamer.
06:11He wins, he wins games.
06:12Yeah, yeah.
06:12Which at the college level,
06:13I can't draft you because you win games.
06:14Yes.
06:14Um, that the best thing that everybody says about Kevin
06:17is he's the same guy every day.
06:20That's the equivalent of he wins in college.
06:23It's like this idea of something that you're not really sure
06:27how much credit you get for that.
06:28Like, oh, you're not a Royal a-hole.
06:30Well, I do think it mattered here in some respects
06:33because, uh, in the, in the chaos building that,
06:36that is Berea with the Browns and Haslam,
06:38him being that like even keeled person
06:41did seem to matter to people.
06:42Well, it doesn't matter really to me,
06:44but that's, I think maybe people sold themselves on that.
06:46Yeah, I think it mattered to stabilize the Browns.
06:49I think it mattered early, right?
06:51Get away from the Freddy Kitchen stuff.
06:53That's it.
06:53You're coming off Freddy and all these other different,
06:55just theatrics.
06:56And then at some point,
06:57you've got to be able to stand on your own legs as a coach.
06:59Right, exactly.
07:00And I think that's what makes Jarvis' comments so interesting
07:03about he had us early and then lost us
07:06and couldn't get us back.
07:07Yeah, we had no, he had no secondary pitch.
07:09Yes.
07:10He just had, he had the one pitch and that was it.
07:12And it was a good pitch, but you have to keep evolving.
07:14And I think the reason why it matters,
07:15because I get it.
07:16Like we've talked probably more about Kevin Stefanski's
07:20next go-round than we ever did.
07:23Sharmer after he got fired,
07:24Shudzinski after he got fired,
07:26Petten after he got fired,
07:27Hugh after he got fired.
07:29Freddy, come on now.
07:30But the reason why it matters is
07:32you should be watching this year,
07:35looking at what Kevin does in Atlanta
07:37and what Todd does here
07:39and see who has more success.
07:42Like it does matter.
07:43Like who wins the divorce
07:45absolutely tells the tale
07:47of who got it wrong in Cleveland
07:48and who got it right.
07:50So if Kevin goes down to Atlanta
07:51and that's a 10 or 11 win team
07:53and they've got talent,
07:54but that's a 10 or 11 win team
07:56and they're in the NFC title game this year
07:59and you're, you know, the fifth pick,
08:03boy, does it seem like
08:05the Kevin Stefanski supporters
08:08have real legitimate gripes
08:11about firing the wrong guy.
08:13If they do that,
08:14then Stefanski would have shown
08:15an ability to either do something with Penix
08:17or another quarterback that hasn't existed yet.
08:19And there would be,
08:20there'd be a lot that'd be,
08:21I like the skill position players there.
08:23Prisco in his rankings
08:24had him at 24th the Falcons the other day.
08:26I thought that was,
08:27I thought that was interesting.
08:27I didn't think they're the,
08:28I don't think they're the 24th best team in the NFL.
08:31I'd put them more like,
08:32I don't know, 18th,
08:33but maybe we're splitting hairs in the middle.
08:35Maybe we're splitting hairs.
08:36Also, I'm out on Prisco now.
08:37He had the Browns at 31,
08:38which is asinine.
08:39And he had the Falcons at 24,
08:42which I also would consider more asinine.
08:44Just not a rankings guy that Pete Prisco.
08:46He's gifted in other ways
08:47in that he's a bold, angry old man
08:49that thinks he's the only football guy in America.
08:52But other than that,
08:54what a guy.
08:56That being said,
08:57it goes the other way too.
08:59If Kevin ends up with a top five pick next year
09:02and you end up being nine and eight
09:05and Shador looks like a starting quarterback,
09:08and you look,
09:09then,
09:09and listen,
09:11it'll probably be somewhere in the middle.
09:12Neither team's likely to light the NFL on fire.
09:15Neither team's likely to be among the suckiest of sucky teams.
09:19But like,
09:20listen,
09:20I wanted Kevin fired.
09:22I fired him three times during the year.
09:24I also wanted Andrew fired,
09:26but I knew I was probably only getting at one of them.
09:28So,
09:28I am invested in what Kevin does
09:31in Atlanta this year
09:32in the same way I'm invested in the Browns
09:34because I want to know
09:35who is really the problem here,
09:37and
09:37we're going to be grading this thing
09:39until the Browns get consistently good again.
09:41Well,
09:41and what else will be interesting too
09:42is to find out
09:43whether or not Stefanski,
09:44he says he's calling plays,
09:46but midway through the season,
09:47is it actually Tommy Reese then?
09:48Is it actually,
09:49does AVP get back involved?
09:51All these other little type of things.
09:52I thought,
09:52I thought he had said Tommy's going to call.
09:54Oh,
09:55really?
09:55Did he?
09:55Yeah.
09:55Oh,
09:56I missed that part.
09:56Okay.
09:57Tommy's calling plays just right out of the rip.
09:58So,
09:58he's got a fall guy already.
10:00I'm sorry.
10:01No,
10:01no.
10:01So,
10:01I go back to it.
10:02What is it you do well?
10:03I don't understand what he does well.
10:04He's,
10:05he's got that salt and pepper look.
10:06I don't,
10:07I just don't understand it.
10:08And so,
10:08he's really good looking for middle-aged man.
10:11You're not a leader.
10:12You don't call plays.
10:13You don't,
10:13I don't,
10:14I don't know what you do.
10:14He talks in the same tone of voice,
10:17no matter what you're asking him,
10:19and then he never answers a question.
10:22Huh?
10:23Huh?
10:24What a sell,
10:25right?
10:25What a sell.
10:26Hey,
10:26also,
10:27I don't know if you know this,
10:28he grew up in Philly.
10:29Yeah,
10:29he did.
10:30Yeah.
10:30Listening to WIP.
10:31He's a Philly guy.
10:32How about that?
10:32And those guys,
10:34they're just built different.
10:37Is there like a joke at John coming or something?
10:39I wasn't sure.
10:40No,
10:40I was just making jokes at Philly guys and how much they have.
10:42Like,
10:43I don't,
10:43I don't walk,
10:44like when I'm elsewhere,
10:45I'm not like,
10:45well,
10:45I'm a Cleveland guy.
10:46And you know what that says?
10:48Do Philly people do that?
10:49Yes.
10:50Yes.
10:51I just think they're angry all the time.
10:52Oh my gosh.
10:52Who's a Flacco.
10:54I like Joe Flacco.
10:56Shut up about being from Philly.
10:58Oh,
10:58I'm a Jersey guy.
11:00I'm a Jersey guy.
11:01Definitely do that.
11:02There's a thing with Jersey guys.
11:03Every person from Jersey has to tell you they're from Jersey.
11:05Every guy in Jersey guy,
11:06same freaking guy.
11:07There's no difference.
11:08Huh?
11:09And it means literally nothing to anyone in the rest of the country.
11:12And they just tell you.
11:14Is it obvious most of the time?
11:16Oh,
11:16I'm an Idaho guy.
11:17I don't know if you know how we Idaho guys get down.
11:20No,
11:20because we're not from Idaho,
11:21you jag.
11:22Every Clevelander always wears Cleveland t-shirts when they go places though.
11:26Yeah,
11:26but I'm not like,
11:26but I'm a Cleveland guy.
11:28Like,
11:28as if it's part of my personality.
11:29I know,
11:30but we do all as a collective.
11:31We wear,
11:31we wear Cleveland t-shirts everywhere.
11:33Yeah.
11:33That's not the same thing as going,
11:34well,
11:35you know,
11:35I'm a Philly guy as if there's an inference for what that means.
11:38Wow.
11:39I haven't been trapped in too many convos with this as happened.
11:41I don't know.
11:43Just Joe Flacco and just Kevin Stefanski.
11:45I need more Philly guys in my life.
11:46I need more Philly guys in my life.
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