Jaskirat Singh Rangi descends deeper into his alias as Hamza Ali Mazari, rising through Karachi's criminal hierarchy to claim the feared title "Sher-e-Baloch" while balancing loyalty, betrayal, and survival in a ruthless underworld.
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Short filmTranscript
00:00When I was watching in Geo Plaza, now there are 20 minutes ads, some 20 minute intervals,
00:044 out of 14 minutes sitting, in the end titles he is just showing a montage of his training
00:09and not one guy is getting up. Just that tongue sequence. That one idea of holding the tongue
00:17suddenly built him up beyond my imagination. And I think the happening worked because of
00:23the extended time it took. This one does. Correctly. Yes. Better I Do It is the right word.
00:28This is how it should be done. Better it looks like compassion, 30% better, 50% better. No.
00:35And also if you look at those directors when they give interviews and all that, what do they say?
00:41Ah, it's coming. They are going to fuck the box office. That is the level of theā¦
00:56So, we are here to talk about Durandar 2. You obviously have loved it.
01:01I would say I want to marry it. I don't think I love it. Yeah.
01:05Yeah. What was your first reaction when you walked out of the theatre?
01:10See, I mean, on a cumulative level, I don't know we can describe it. I kept on reacting at multiple
01:18places in the film. So, I would rather think that is a more truer kind of a reaction, I would
01:26say.
01:27But, okay, if I have to sum up, I will say that, you see, it is not, I will say,
01:32film has a story,
01:33you know, then there is a way you tell a story and there is something which the industry over
01:39so many decades had felt that this should be the structure of how to tell a story on film.
01:45Now, every one of those are broken, you know. And when they are broken, you, especially as being a
01:52filmmaker, you get startled first, you get, what, what, you know. Yeah.
01:57But at the same time, you are still, because over the years, I look at the craft more than
02:03maybe the effect of the film like a normal audience would. I am not very sure I can
02:08do see a film like that. But it is keeping on grabbing me again into the story. And at a
02:14point
02:14of time, I am thinking about the craft and then this, you know. More than anything else, I feel,
02:22in a nutshell, if I have to say, what Hamza did in Pakistan to the terror networks, destroying all of
02:32them, Aditya Dar has done to the industry. Aditya Dar is a real Hamza, you know.
02:38And the terror network is Indian film industry. That is what I feel, you know.
02:45So, people will be confused. Now, imagine, I mean, I am not getting into details, but after,
02:53after the climax is over, the film is going for 40 minutes. What the hell is that?
02:58Because, you know, what we consider climax. And after almost killing the main villain,
03:04after a long extended fight, the very next scene, he gets beaten up like a dog.
03:09So, there is not a single thing which is a pattern
03:12of exactly what we are used to seeing so many after so, I mean, for so many decades.
03:18Decades. Decades, yeah.
03:20So, I think,
03:23yeah. And it is like, it is like a fireside tale. When you tell the main story, then there
03:28will be a lot of questions in the guys. What happened to that character? What did this guy do?
03:33And to round up the story, after telling the story is over, he took 40 minutes.
03:39And nobody binded. When I was watching in Jio Plaza,
03:44in IMAX screen, now there are 20 minutes ads, some 20 minute interval,
03:484 hour 40 minutes sitting, in the end titles, he is just showing a montage of his training and not
03:55one guy is getting up. Exactly, exactly. Not one guy I saw getting up after sitting for 4 hour 40
04:02minutes.
04:02Same in my theatre. Same in my theatre. 500 seat, 500 seater auditorium, house full, not a single
04:08person got up during the training montage, during the rolling credits. That's insane, right?
04:15Yeah, yeah. That's a dream for any filmmaker. The story is over, but still people are invested in
04:20the story. And when you say that people are still watching it and the film goes on and on,
04:28even after the climax is done, he doesn't let you go even till the last second, which is he shows
04:34that
04:35one scene where that Omar is confronting his chief about how could you let Hamza go. He didn't even
04:42leave that thread because he would obviously feel, there was one sincere guy in LTF who was adamant
04:48about capturing Hamza and what about him? And Aditya Dhar is answering that also. So, it's like he wants
04:55to round off every little thing and doesn't want to leave any blanks. So, that to me was astonishing.
05:03See, tying the loose ends, he took 40 minutes. Yeah, 40 minutes.
05:06Lose ends is the word. It's what we normally think. Yeah. And when you say you were reacting to the
05:12film differently during multiple sequences, what are some sequences that, what do you call,
05:18Yeah, see, it will start with the post the climax fight, him being beaten up and he is being saved
05:24by a random phone call from coming from India, where there is no heroism. I wanted to talk to you
05:30about that.
05:30Yeah, you know. Yeah. And what if that call didn't come and all this and then at a point of
05:37time,
05:38suddenly Rakesh Bedi becomes the main hero of the film. That almost for me had this
05:46moment of in Oppenheimer when Truman talks to this guy, Oppenheimer, no one cares a
05:53fuck about who made the bomb. They care about who dropped it and I did, you know. And he looks
06:00as
06:01big as the hero of the film in that one moment, Jamil. Yeah. So, I think that then and this
06:07one thing
06:08when he is burning the photo of her and the son, because that chapter of his life is over,
06:15I literally had a lump in my throat, you know. So, I am normally a very emotional as cold-blooded
06:23guy,
06:24you know. So, for me to feel that, you see, Aditya basically has a,
06:31what shall I say, he's got an extraordinary sensitivity and respect towards the characters
06:38he is dealing with. No matter how small, they could be villains, they could be on the bad guys or
06:44good
06:45guys. Everybody's got the same sensitivity and respect which is so evident. Yeah. You know, in a,
06:53in a point of Ujair Baloch where Sears is the head and plays football and that scene completely belongs
06:59to him, almost where Ranveer Singh is a bystander in the scene and then after that and then with such
07:06cold-bloodedness, he will take his name in the climax. Yeah. You know. He says, who do I blame this
07:12on
07:13Ujair? And I, I made him survive only for that. For that, for this day. Yeah. And that is cold
07:19-bloodedness
07:19at another level, you know. But it doesn't seem to be a difference because they're all caught in a
07:27certain situation where betrayals, loyalties and constant shifting stances has to be the order of
07:36that world. It's normal. It's normal. It's normal. Yeah. In fact, when Omar tells SP that had doubt on
07:44Hamza right from the beginning, it's not a surprise to SP. Correct. Because they have been traveling
07:50together for more than a decade now. Yeah. If you have doubt, go and investigate. It's very matter of fact.
07:58The phone call that you mentioned that the one that Madhavan Ajay Sanyal makes, I love the staging of
08:05that scene. Like it's, he's holding his grandchild in his arms, sleeping in his arms and he's making a
08:11very simple phone call. It's actually a very heroic moment, but it is presented as a very regular thing,
08:17just another day in his job. Correct. Correct. There is no drama, no tension, nothing. And when you talk
08:24about power play and all that conversation, it really stuck with me because when he makes that
08:32phone call, that ISI guy has the upper hand because he's the one holding, capturing Hamza. So the
08:40conversation begins with Ajay Sanyal saying Salaam Waalaikum and it ends with that guy saying Namaskar.
08:47Yeah. Correct. So the power dynamics have shifted in one phone call and it is communicated so superbly
08:53and the other point is Uzair Baloch. Like he is this intimidating, wild, brutal guy at one point
09:01in the film and he's a clown by the end of the film. Yeah. Like when Hamza takes his name,
09:07people in
09:07theatre were laughing. Yeah. Like Uzair when he says Uzair. Correct. Correct. And he became a clown.
09:13So what he managed to do with these many characters and every character having an arc,
09:19to me that is that's a dream for any. Correct. Correct. Correct. It's a textbook for any
09:24aspiring writer or film writer. See, like coming back to what I said that this guy is done to the
09:30film industry, what Hamza has done to the Tabev network. If you look at it, I think all the filmmakers
09:37will be confused. They won't know what hit them or what stabbed them, I would say, you know. Because
09:46you are so used on a template, first scene, hero, introduction comes at that, I have a full
09:51background score and just play the troke, papers, coins, whatever and there is no celebration.
09:57Yeah. There is no celebration of any character in the film. You know, if at all you think there is,
10:04there is more celebration for all the other characters including Atif Ahmed in the way he is introduced.
10:10Yeah. Slow-mo. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then constantly breaking the structure. So the twists are so many,
10:20not inherently only because of the script has them, it also is breaking the pattern of how you are used
10:27to watch films. It's a double whammy. Yeah. Yeah. Inherent twists in the story is different
10:33and the director has made the change in the pattern, it's even more shocking. Yeah. Yeah.
10:38This is harder to explain. Yeah, correct, correct. This is harder to explain. So tomorrow,
10:42tomorrow if you want to basically because of the huge collections, you have no choice but to take
10:49it seriously. Absolutely. It is not like a highly appreciated film. It is not that. It is a
10:54blockbuster biggest hit of all time. Money, money talks. Yeah, no, yeah. And now if you want to have
11:00an intention also to do something like this, organically it came from Aditya. You try to imitate it,
11:09you can fall very badly on your face. It will be very difficult choice for anyone to take. Yeah, yeah,
11:15yeah.
11:15You need to have the intensity of this guy, his understanding of the subject matter. It is not
11:20like a script on paper. Right. Where anybody can do it. There are so many subjects in their expressions
11:27and X and Y, all that is not going to be easy for anyone to capture. Yeah. But now there
11:34will be two
11:34things. One is they will be scared whether that kind of a old school will work or not, you don't
11:39know.
11:40Because before Durandar there was no benchmark. Now there is a benchmark set. How action can be,
11:46how characters can be, how the depth of the character is not about hairdos and costumes. There
11:52has to be something internal which will reflect even in a silent close-up. This kind of a thing,
11:59who can do it? And now you don't know if you don't do that, will they work? Yeah. It's too
12:05big to not
12:06take seriously. It is impossible. Yeah. Now I am not, I don't have anything against
12:12that. But okay, I might have, I might like this kind of film more. But I am very keen to
12:20know,
12:21after seeing Durandar and Durandar 2 of course, if a film comes like Pushpatu and someone flying in the
12:31air and biting people like Dracula, will they see a fight like that? I am very curious actually.
12:37You know, now that is one part. Now forget the collections. Always we talk about collections of
12:43a big film. Which is the last film in the last 40 years, people discussing characters, people discussing
12:48moments, shots, scenes, some background score. I think probably two characters but the visual
12:55kind of shots and all the... See, the difference for me, see probably is a spectacle. It's like a
13:00sput in a period, Kings and this and that is a world which you are not a part of. Right.
13:05Yes, the characters, sentiments you connect to. This is not that. Durandar is a today scene. Whether
13:13it is set in 2000, 2009, that is not the point. It is about people who relate to on everyday
13:19life.
13:20Whether it is a mafia or a terror network and we have seen all these incidents of Durandar
13:25happened in our lifetime, in the last 10 whatever years. Which is not the case of Bhavali. So I think
13:31the comparison is wrong. Firstly, did you expect it to have a happy ending? I mean by happy ending,
13:39I mean Hamza returning back to India. Did you expect that? I expected that only because I felt
13:45that would have been the victory. I mean this is such a patriotic film in terms of these tremendous
13:51sacrifices and what all he has gone through. For him to have a tragic ending, I think would be a
13:57kind
13:58of a letdown. Which is the reason I expected. Because we tend to, most of these films end on a
14:03sacrificing note only. That was a surprise to me. So I am very happy that he got a happy ending.
14:09And I think the happy ending worked because of the extended time he took.
14:14See, if it is a happy ending, right, just the moment he gets a call, his left hand,
14:18after that if he is left, it would have been very abrupt.
14:20Yeah. Speaking of celebration, coming back to that, when he returns back,
14:26all Ajay Sanyal tells him is, Jaskirath, you did a good job.
14:31You did good. That's it. That's it.
14:34There isn't a single extra dialogue saying that you saved our country.
14:38I almost was upset at that time. I wish he said something fantastic or something.
14:44He did good. He deserves it. Yeah. Because I have seen what he has done,
14:48what he has gone through and everything and good.
14:54Nothing like we are all proud of you, the country is indebted to you, nothing. So,
14:59it felt like and nobody would have questioned him also, right? Nobody would have questioned
15:03Aditya Dar. If a very highly decorated intelligence officer is coming and appreciating him. But Aditya Dar,
15:11he never goes for those things. Like he never even tries to glorify the hero.
15:18Correct. Because that's the most easiest thing to do because what we do in our films is,
15:23we will have 10 people. See, if that scene what you mentioned,
15:26you would have gotten up and come and hugged him and kiss him and this and you are a pride
15:31of India.
15:31India. That is what you would expect. And it is actually deserving also.
15:38Correct. Nobody would have had a problem. Nobody would have had a problem with it.
15:42People would have been happy actually seeing him. I actually got angry with Pajis in here at the time.
15:49Yeah. And to me, when we talk about mass and all, the shot of Ajay Sanyal standing outside the plane
15:57and lighting a cigar, because lighting a cigar has always been this Indian hero thing, right?
16:04Correct. He is also doing that. But the context to it is so bloody different.
16:09Because this is a context that was established in the opening scene of Durandar. Yeah. And by then,
16:15I think we are six or seven hours into storytelling. Yeah. You are getting a payoff seven hours after that,
16:22after seven hours of storytelling. And that to me is the most massiest or most heroic thing about
16:30this film. So, what are some of your favourite moments if you had to point out?
16:34I mean, Saeed, we may think that too many moments. Like I said, I can't get over the photo shot,
16:39burning the photo. And then that scene after the main villain Tamax is over,
16:48he held on to both Sara and him. Both of them are not talking to each other.
16:53Ah. They are just waiting for each one to say something
16:58and holding on to them for such a long time. I find, in fact, I was asking him and his
17:04editor,
17:04I just find it very difficult to believe on editing table to take a decision like that.
17:10You know, how long can you hold? See, that will only happen in the process of an audience watching
17:17for the first time for four hours connecting on the editing table. Yeah. So, and then of course,
17:25like whether it is him killing Binda, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There is
17:33and you see, because when you are developing the relation and then when he sees his
17:39old friend coming from the airport. See, they are like real life things.
17:43You know, all of us go through certain such moments. Where is it coming from?
17:48And, and to mimic the emotion is holding the shots for such a long time.
17:52Yeah, holding. Yeah, holding it. Yeah.
17:55Yeah. That is because Aditya Dhar is a very emotional person.
17:59It is him coming through. Because I spent time with, you know,
18:03the, the, the, the, that is, okay. Anybody will say, okay, okay.
18:07You register here, cut.
18:09You know. See, then, what is your fault?
18:13There is shock. Cut. He came, isn't it?
18:17And he is going on looking, he is going on walking, he is going on looking and you get into
18:21his mindset.
18:22He is completely, you get into, into, possessing his mind and what is going on in through.
18:27That I think is extremely, I mean, rare. A direct of having that kind of a depth.
18:35Yeah.
18:35I am so happy that you mentioned how he holds shots.
18:40The final conversation with his wife, he asks, should I tell you my real name?
18:46Before he says his real name, there is a 10 to 12 second pause.
18:49Hmm.
18:49We are already following the conversation. The emotion is already established.
18:53But then, revealing his real name to his wife is a very big deal for this guy.
18:58Correct, correct.
18:58It marks the end of the story.
18:59Yeah, yeah, correct, correct.
19:00What he has spent for the last, say, 15, 20 years. And in that, when he kills Pinda,
19:08he has to go inside, right? He has to go into the bathroom, everyone runs.
19:12This guy waits for 10 to 15 seconds. He just stands there for a while and then goes,
19:18because he knows what's going to happen.
19:19Correct, correct.
19:20He knows that he has to go and kill his brother-like figure, so he holds.
19:24Yeah, correct, correct.
19:25That has to be insanely, insane sense of security as a, as a storyteller.
19:32See, the, for me, it's like, you know, for example, when he, when he throws something,
19:40now I can understand, you know, see, in the initial stages major evolve,
19:44I felt, it's also, it's, it's being functional.
19:49Hmm.
19:49And then you have to flip him to become the main guy,
19:53just that tongue sequence in the tongue.
19:56Yeah, yeah, so visceral.
19:57That one idea of holding the tongue suddenly built him up beyond my imagination,
20:04you know, beyond my thing and suddenly he became the main guy with that one shot.
20:08Him just shooting or killing wouldn't have worked.
20:12Suddenly the brutality of Major Iqbal comes like a thing and which will justify the entire
20:17sequence after, after that.
20:19And the violence in this film was so, like, you could feel it, this one, something that you mentioned
20:23in, in one of your posts, that the violence, like, you can really feel the danger in it.
20:31See, it's also, if you look at the usage of kind of a pop songs in violence,
20:37it is like celebrating the violence, you know, you, if you see, like, when this Aslam Jowdhury is
20:44going and before his death, you hear a song,
20:49you will never think of a song like that in a sequence like that, you know.
20:54It's almost like, you know what I am saying, it is subconsciously, you are,
20:58it is making you celebrate.
21:00It's very strange, it is almost like a psychedelic trance it is, actually.
21:04Because one, what you are seeing is extremely violent and what you are hearing is a
21:08pop song thumping beat a dance beat.
21:11Yeah, happy, happy, yeah, yeah, yeah.
21:12I mean, the last time I saw something like that was in Oliver Stone's films like
21:16Natural Born Killers and, you know, where the music is kind of actually going opposite to
21:21what you are seeing, instead of supporting, yeah, yeah, correct.
21:25And one of the reasons I think Durandar works so well is, it's very satisfying.
21:29In a level where we as human beings, we derive a lot of pleasure in seeing evil getting punished,
21:35right.
21:36So, in that sense, this film is, this gives that emotional outlet to every viewer,
21:40because every person who is getting harmed in this, every person whom the hero is taking
21:45revenge on, we see them as figures of evil.
21:48And this guy is going them and killing them in the most brutal ways.
21:52Like the guy beside Iqbal, the one who burns the Sardar and his wife, he gets such a gory death.
21:59Usually, you wouldn't think that a side character like that would be given such a brutal punishment,
22:05but his hand is pierced and his knife, his eye is pierced with the same knife and then he is
22:10thrown
22:10along with the table, his body is crushed.
22:12It's very satisfying because it's all happening to
22:18bad guys.
22:19So, did you have any of those moments where that gave you that adrenaline rush?
22:25See, maybe he didn't do it physically, but I think in my mind was all the time jumping.
22:30So, even the shot of in the beginning stage when he sets fire to that woman is trying to protect
22:36him
22:37and then he burns them alive. Now, that guy
22:42and these both are talking in a balcony, Major Iqbal and this guy, you know, Aslam Chaudhary.
22:49So, the whole thing without, like you said, overstating it, it made it even more impactful.
22:58We'll always have a tendency to overstate those things.
23:01The contrast of the deadpan expression of Major Iqbal and this guy,
23:05the brutality of somebody being burnt alive, you know, that juxtaposition is water.
23:10Yeah.
23:11You know, you see, it's like, you know, if you're, if you look at it,
23:17if you for one second take away the point of he's working for India, you know, as a spy
23:25and because of that you think he's the protagonist.
23:29Now, the protagonist does as many sins as the villains.
23:32I don't see a difference. If you take the camera from their side, he looks as villainous in the context.
23:39As any of them.
23:40As any of them.
23:41Yeah.
23:41Yeah.
23:41You know.
23:42What Ayurveder does to make even simple scenes more interesting is that he creates these micro
23:48moments of tension and suspense, like very small moments. Generally, we say, right, people get,
23:54at least even me, even I get frustrated when the story is not moving forward and people are just
23:58talking to each other. But Duragan is one of those films where I was enjoying people talking to
24:04each other as much as people killing each other on screen.
24:08See, now, see, the, the extreme subtle details, for example, something like the cello tape,
24:16close of a cello tape, it becomes a character in the context of, really, it also is creating an emotion
24:21in the, in the, in the thing. Those things are, I think, very, very, I mean, I don't know how
24:28to
24:29describe it also, what, what is required in a director. And it's so complex. And, but,
24:34to look at it, it's a very commercial template film. Yeah.
24:38It's a hero coming for the good, is doing this, do that. And at the most, all the films we
24:43saw so
24:44far, and I'm sure many of the films are being made, they will have elevation shots and there
24:49won't be a mind neither to the villains nor to the hero. Yeah.
24:54So, he's, he's made the mind more violent, more dangerous than actual physical action. Yeah.
25:00Yeah. There were times when maybe you might feel the physical action a little going too long,
25:05but you don't find that in the scenes at all. Absolutely. In terms of,
25:09the hold on to the emotions and the long pauses, you, you're just mesmerized because you, you can't
25:16have enough of it. Yeah. I, I remember when someone told me, you're four hours of himself.
25:22When you're watching it, you don't want it to end. Yeah.
25:24Yeah. You actually get disappointed when it's over. Yeah. There are so many moments of tiny tension,
25:31which makes even simple scenes very tense. Like for instance, that Rizwan guy, the spy in Arshad
25:39Papu's gang, he comes to inform Uzair that Arshad Papu is the one who baited Rahman Dakar. In that scene,
25:48Uzair is there and he calls him. And you really don't know what he's going to do when he takes
25:53the gun.
25:54He could either shoot him or he could hand over the gun. So there is a 10 seconds of 10
26:00seconds of
26:00tension there. Like what's this guy going to do? Otherwise it's a very simple scene, right? It's a very,
26:07it's a very functional scene where a character is knowing and information, but he creates a moment
26:12of tension there also. I saw one post that people are not complaining about Durandar's Durandar or Durandar's
26:18runtime because in a way, OTT has made us all accustomed to the binging culture.
26:26My view on this is, first of all, I do not believe there is any such thing as too long
26:32a film
26:33because if the film is boring, it will bore you in 15 minutes. Yeah.
26:37It holds you, it will hold you forever, you know. So even at a time when Narcos came, people binge
26:44watched it for two days in both the seasons. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
26:47So the point is holding you or not, I don't think it's about you got accustomed. Even I remember when
26:52in
26:52college time, we never used to have a complaint with length because we go to see the film and the
26:58film
26:58is doing something definitely better than what's happening in the real life. Yeah. So we always
27:02be disappointed when the film is over because we have to come back to the, I mean, of course,
27:06today there's a choice, all that is there. But the point is about the whole. I don't think it's about
27:11the length. Like what we discussed in the beginning of the interview, after 4 or 40 minutes,
27:16everybody is getting up, which means they want to just dwell and immerse themselves in this world.
27:22Yeah. No, but did you feel that Durandar had a bit of a, that episodic touch especially?
27:29See, for me what happened, see, whenever he says a chapter is coming, I felt it has a reset, you
27:37know.
27:38It's like, you know, I got over one. It's like when you're reading a novel,
27:42the novel is a continuous story, but the moment a chapter ends and chapter 3 something comes,
27:48it's strangely, it gives my mind a reset, so I want to enjoy it again once, I mean,
27:55especially back into the story. It is a kind of a slight respite.
27:59Respite is not really interval, you know, it is just about a 30-20 seconds gap or something,
28:06but in your mind it takes you away and then pulls you in.
28:09You know, I think that is what it is. That also it works very differently on episode by episode.
28:13Yeah. But in the same flow, same chapter, I think it works in a very different way.
28:19Okay. Yeah.
28:21I think an actor that really defines the success of any film is if you are still thinking about the
28:28characters after the credits roll, like if you think what their life is going to be
28:34after the film is over, I think it's the truest form of success for
28:39storytelling. And I think Durandar does it beautifully because this man Hamza or Jaskirat,
28:44he has gone through a lot. He has endured a lot. By the time the film ends, you're really curious
28:50to know
28:51what is next for this guy. Yeah. Like what his life is going to be like after
28:57being through so much, like he spent decades and decades building an identity and in a single day,
29:02all of it is gone and he has to let go of that and move on. That to me, purely
29:08from a psychological
29:09point of view, that's a damn difficult situation to be in.
29:16Right. Yeah. I mean, see, yeah, that goes without saying. I think, yeah. So, see, if you look at it
29:25also in the treatment, you very rarely in the film hear what Hamza is thinking.
29:33All the others, you very clearly hear them. You don't hear actually what Hamza. Most of the time
29:39it is inferred, what you supposed to think about it. When Sara holds a gun and when he comes in
29:48and
29:48yes, he is an Indian agent, she came to know, she probably might shoot, but him coming, holding
29:55the foot and putting it on his forehead, the confidence and his understanding of her as a
30:01human being, you know. So, the important thing I want to say, Hamza never explains himself.
30:07And he never defends. And never defends, never explains
30:10his motives or whatever to anybody, where is Rajiv Sanyal or whoever.
30:16So, I think that is the ultimate thing for me, you know. It is partly in the design and
30:22extraordinary performance of Ranveer Singh. And the whole of the thing comes from even
30:32the flashback when the film opens with him, you know. His close-up, he already pulled into the story.
30:39I don't remember feeling that ever. It is not like he is not being introduced like a
30:45happy-go-lucky guy. He is like that. Just already you are inside, already you are hitting the film.
30:52And they look like they stepped out of light. They don't really step out of the makeup man.
30:56How can you have that intensity and the beginning frame of a scene is something beyond.
31:03Yeah. Since you mentioned the opening scene, one thing that really intrigued me was, the day Durandar
31:10released, I watched another film, which portrayed sexual abuse in a very crude way, in a way that
31:16it was trying to milk our sentiment. In this, even though horrible things have happened to them,
31:22it doesn't really get into that. And there is one shot of the sister crying, crying in that
31:29pump room. And her scream kind of gives you the same impact. See, not going into the names,
31:35the difference I feel, here the genuineness of the emotion, the pain and the trauma seen in the sister
31:42and in his reaction to the whole thing. Those kind of directors, they will just inform and they will
31:50not feel what the pain of that is and visually they try to make it horrific. And that's how exactly
31:56it will come out. Yeah. So, I feel this film focused more on the impact, not on the sensation.
32:03Yeah. See, this has happened, see how, what, look at the cruelty that was inflicted on them, no.
32:09All of that has happened, you just feel the impact. Yeah. You just feel the horror.
32:14Correct, correct.
32:17What do you think should be the take away from Durandar? See, to start with, I think it is a
32:24very,
32:25very loud wake-up call, where the, when you wake up because of an alarm you put, this alarm sound
32:35will
32:35shatter their eardrums to start with, you know. But the problem is after waking up, they won't know what to
32:41do.
32:44See, if you wake up and you are clear about what you wanted is different, but what is the point
32:48of
32:48waking up if you don't know what to do next? Because you are not able to get an adityadhar kind
32:54of a command
32:54or a sensibility or a sensitivity and anything. And I think it will disturb. And now suddenly the
33:04people have come to know this is the kind of cinema which can be made. What are you saying?
33:09It's a wake-up call even for the audience. So, they will feel, are they making us fools or what?
33:16All the while, yeah. All this time this is what you think the Indian audience want and this is what
33:21we
33:22are making, is what the constant argument or constant explanation we have been hearing. And they
33:29suddenly took away the rug and you have fallen down on your face. So, in comparison to Durandar,
33:37the effect audience are feeling and giving it so much of love, people are scared to come and stand next.
33:45It's after a beautiful woman comes and in a contest comes and the second woman who is nowhere near,
33:54she will be scared to come and on to the stage. So, I think all the films which are being
34:02made,
34:02in the process of being made, all these hundreds of course of films, they are all planned on the same
34:07template of what has been working before Durandar. Now, if the audience are in a reset button of how
34:14they want to see hero, how they want to see drama, how they want to see realism and a storyline
34:21with
34:21so much of depth and nuance and whatever, now to see those fake films, how they will feel?
34:30There is an argument that all kinds of films work. But I think there is a difference here. See,
34:36it's not like a one-off Kashmiri Files or one-off something else kang or some love suri like Sayara.
34:41This is the same template. Yeah, what they have already been doing but this does this one does
34:47so much better. Yes, better I do it is the right word. This is how it should be done. Better
34:53it looks
34:54like compassion, 30 percent better, 50 percent better. No, I think that's an insult.
34:58This redefines basically. It redefines. Redefines the template. It redefines, reprojects and actually
35:05this is what you have to see fuckers. It is actually saying that. It is what cinema is. This is
35:10what it is.
35:13So, that stark difference between that style of films and this, I believe it's going to be a long,
35:20long time. The existing filmmakers whether they can adapt, whether they and at the most they can hope
35:29something like that will come and again beat this. But I don't think it will happen.
35:32But do you think people will try to imitate? They will see but that is a problem with this film.
35:38See the imitation like I said, now it is very easy to say long pause. Now,
35:45but long pause is coming from in the overall thing of what the when he sees him at the airport
35:55and the scene there and the whole journey of him being introduced coming out of the airport and his
36:02expression. There is so many things together happening. I will give an example. In Shiva there is a scene
36:11when this guy, when this guy looks at the opening sequence and he just does that. He just gives a
36:18nod,
36:19say we are here kind of a thing, a silent communication. Now, one actor told me after that
36:28that, some other director when he is saying, so he said that Shiva, you know, he just nods, you know,
36:34do that, he said. So, that guy did that, cut. Why are you not doing? No, sir, I did it.
36:41No, no, no,
36:42that's, we have to do a little more. And then the second day, a little more. He said, no, no,
36:48that's not enough.
36:49And finally, he said. So, when you don't feel it, you won't be able to imitate it. You might have
36:57the idea.
36:58So, if you say, put a long pause like Duranda, but if the face does not carry the emotion, it
37:06will
37:06backfair. Yeah. The long pause, you know. And also, if you look at those directors when they give
37:13interviews and all that, what do they say? I am coming. You want to fuck the box office. That is
37:19their level of depth. My hero is, I am, my life is only for him, once his hand. You know,
37:28these kind
37:29of a slavery-oriented directors are going to, I mean, they are going to be exposed so badly.
37:37He is the first guy I have seen in, I mean, maybe Christopher Nolan does that. Christopher Nolan
37:44never talks about the box office, you know. Aditya never talked about the box office. He talks about
37:49the film. He talks about the subject and maybe sometimes have character or two. So, that maturity
37:57and that kind of intelligence and that kind of a sensitivity and that kind of dignity in the
38:02person, how will you get it if you don't have it? So, you can imitate the so-called elevation
38:09masala films because you get the best action narrator. You throw hundreds of crores into it and all the
38:15technicians, they will do item songs, they will do this, they will do that. But to do Duranda,
38:20you need brings, you need depth, you need sensitivity, you need a dignity. All these
38:28elements are going to come once in a blue moon. It is not like you will have, but what it
38:33can do,
38:34it can inspire. Now, this will become a benchmark. They inspire a lot of younger guys and people
38:39are coming now or just starting off, you know, Duranda will become the new benchmark.
38:45The guys who are already in production, who we thought are the top directors charging 20 crores
38:50and all that, they are going to be in deep trouble. Yeah. Exposed basically.
38:55Yeah, they get exposed. Yeah. Because right after Duranda, I was just thinking about some of the
39:01films that I have actually enjoyed. All of them feel very basic actually. Yeah.
39:06You compared this to Mahabharata in our previous conversation. Yeah.
39:09Yeah. I think with the inclusion of Dawood that becomes much more interesting because this film
39:16is like a, it's like, it's like a myth building exercise. Like we have, nobody knows what actually
39:22Dawood is like today, right? All of us have an image of somebody like Dawood, this guy, this evil guy,
39:28this terrorist who has been doing all kinds of terror shit. We have an image of that. But then what
39:36the
39:36film does with him, I think that adds way more satisfaction. Yeah. And it's like bringing a
39:44lore to life. Reminds me of one thing, when people when they say it is a propaganda film,
39:49it's a right-wing thing, it is going to show so and so in a very good light and all
39:54that. Yeah.
39:55See, first of all, what is a propaganda film? It's a point of view, it is a belief. All of
40:00us have
40:00propagandas in life. When I say something, I am trying to push my point across, you do the same,
40:06everybody does the same. So our beliefs to achieve a target, if Aditya Dhar wants to make a point,
40:14it's about his belief or whatever reasons he has, you know. Now, this is not the truth somebody says,
40:21who knows the truth? I have very different understanding of what Dawood is, for example.
40:27Do I know him? Did I ever meet him? No. Aditya Dhar has a different viewpoint.
40:32Could be from sources, what he heard, could be from sources, what I heard, they could be different
40:37and they could be different at different stages and time periods and all that. But at the end of the
40:43day,
40:45if you are going to argue with him about this is not how it happened. Accuracy.
40:49You are actually trying to manipulate it for a certain purpose. The only way you can debug that is to
40:56make another film and show your reality and then let it be a bigger hit than Dharundar. Then we will
41:02see.
41:02Yeah. Otherwise, it is just an opinion you are expressing. Yeah. Because there has been a lot ofā¦
41:08See, the truth even Dawood Dibayam cannot tell. Because if Dawood Dibayam says also,
41:12you might not believe it. Everyone has an agenda, everybody wants to have propaganda, you know.
41:22Yeah. I think we can end the conversation on that. No, no. This is, this is, this. I know you
41:28have seen the whole film.
41:30You like, you want to marry Duraddar. Name your top three characters from a writing point of view.
41:37Ah, I definitely believe Hamza. Because for me, the point that he silent doesn't explain is something
41:44I will never ever experience. I don't remember a singleā¦ Whenever I see a film, I will have a reference.
41:50Okay. There is something like that. There is something like this. Ah, okay.
41:53So, there is a Michael Corleone. Okay. There is a Shiva. There is some Rambo.
41:57Bruce Lee. Yeah. Yeah. There is something. I don't have a reference point for Hamza.
42:03Even if I see something like a Munich Spielworks, you know, I don't feel the same about theā¦ This is
42:11far superior in the
42:13same context, you know. And second character is Ayla Guzhar Baloch.
42:21Guzhar Baloch. You know. But to be fair, I really don't know him. Everybody likes him.
42:27I know. I know. But that's why it's a different question. So, Guzhar, thirdā¦
42:31So, at a certain point of time, especially Duradandar II, I felt Jami's character is looking a little too loose.
42:40I didn't lose. I didn't like the greens and the park and I was sitting with the garden and all
42:45that.
42:46I thought the whole thing is going little against the rest of the template of the color palette of the
42:52film.
42:53Psychologically also. You felt a bit farcical actually. Correct, correct, correct.
42:56Then by the time we reach the end and he's in the car, I got a fucking punch in the
43:01stomach.
43:01And I believe that also is because of those scenes. Yeah.
43:04Because psychologically stop taking him seriously after some time and then suddenly he becomes the main guy.
43:10Yeah.
43:11I mean, if it worked or if that also, Aditya thought is genius. I know, I am saying,
43:16sometimes it can work. Just unexpectedly which you did not intend.
43:20Yeah.
43:20You know. And, yeah. So, many characters, when I, like I mentioned, if Major Iqbal's character,
43:29I thought it's okay, it's functional, it's coming and going and this and that and then suddenly the tongue scene,
43:34he became my favorite character. Yeah.
43:37So, it is not like consistently one, two, three. Lot of them individually became that.
43:44I saw an appreciation post for that rebel from Baloch. Yeah.
43:50The bad guy with Beard. He's on screen for hardly six or seven minutes.
43:57Just a few shots. Correct.
43:59But people are even stanning his character. Yeah.
44:02So, that's, that to me is like, it's the achievement of great writing, great casting,
44:08great acting, everything has come together. But I believe it has to start with writing.
44:12Yeah.
44:12So, in that sense, Durandar is a, I don't think it's just a blockbuster. I don't think it's just a
44:17blockbuster
44:18that will make the whole process go. See, I feel, I feel it is too limited to
44:23calling a blockbuster. I think it's an insult.
44:29Durandar should be celebrated by Indian cinema because it has woken us up into a new world of films.
44:39This is what it can be. Like, to quote Ayn Rand, it's not about what it is.
44:44It is about what it could be and what it should be. That is what Durandar has done.
44:49You know. So, I think the impact of it on what cinema can be is very different from just hearing
44:57collections.
44:58All the films which has done 500, 700, 800, you never really spoke about the characters,
45:05what it is and what it has done to its intention of elevating the Indian agencies and patriotism.
45:12The depth of it, what it created, I do not believe there is a single film anywhere near.
45:18So, the fact and a director with such little experience has done hardly one or two films.
45:24He's managed to do that. I think it's a wake-up call for all the senior directors
45:29and it will inspire so many whether they'll be able to make it or not the time, time relative.
45:34So, I think it should be celebrated by India, not just about the audience or the film industry.
45:44Okay, film industry will be super jealous and their only hope is again one of those old
45:50templates coming and working. But even if it works, they'll have to remember it won't be discussed.
45:57Impact. Impact. Impact on the audience, you know, and it will, yeah, that is what the thing is.
46:05Like when I said, when I just said you are laughing, I will come and bloody hit the box office,
46:11this festival is ours, just wait, it will start with 2000, those kind of superficial guys,
46:18I think are going to have a very tough time after the world.
46:21You have quoted Ayn Rand also. So, this conversation feels complete now.
46:25Yeah.
46:25So, thank you so much, sir. Loved talking to you because I absolutely loved this film. And I know that
46:30when you love a film, talking to you is a super happy exercise. So, thank you so much, sir.
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