- 11 hours ago
Join us for an insightful session with Assoc. Prof. Dr. Syaza Shukri as she explores the pathways, challenges, and practical strategies involved in driving meaningful institutional reforms. From understanding the political dynamics behind change to translating reform ideals into actionable frameworks, this discussion offers a grounded look at how institutions can evolve to meet modern expectations and societal needs.
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NewsTranscript
00:08Thanks for joining us. This is Economy. I'm your host, Ibrahim Sani.
00:11Joining me today is the political professor, associate professor of IIUM, Dr. Shazza Shukri.
00:20She's also the ICS Yusofi Shah Institute Fellow as well.
00:25Dr. Shazza, thank you very much for taking the time to speak with us.
00:27There's a lot of reforms that are currently being outlined by the Prime Minister and by the government,
00:34such as institutionalising the 10-year term limit or aggregated term limit for the Prime Minister.
00:41There's also this big topic right now that is currently being debated at the Parliament
00:44on the separation of the role of the Attorney General as well as the prosecutor and a few other reforms.
00:53And for the traditional supporter of Pakatan Harapan, these are the exact reforms that they've been always fighting for.
01:02And for the Conservatives, this might not necessarily be one of those things that they are pushing forward currently
01:09as they feel that there are other priorities that need to be discussed and executed first.
01:15Because of these different stages of interest, I would argue, not necessarily conflict of interest,
01:23but different interests, how do you think things are panning up right now,
01:28especially when we saw the Prime Minister making such announcements at the turn of the year,
01:32that on one hand surprised some of the observers, but on the other hand is a much welcome relief,
01:38especially from the Pakatan Harapan voter base.
01:42How do you look into all of these situations before we deep dive into some of the reforms that we
01:48talked about just now?
01:48I mean, I agree with you that the Prime Minister is doing all of this because of this is what
01:54the voters,
01:55the Pakatan Harapan voters have wanted for so long.
01:58Most of the question has been surrounding the timing.
02:01You know, why is it now in 2026?
02:03You know, we've heard all the arguments, you know, they've had, what, two years of stabilising the government.
02:08So now it's the best time.
02:10But now we're also hearing the issue of it seems that they're pushing it now.
02:14So why are you pushing these reforms?
02:17Again, the argument is this is what our base wants, but is it the best for the country at this
02:23moment?
02:23And that's why you brought up the argument from the other side.
02:27But if I may differ a little bit, I would say that from Perikatan National's perspective,
02:32it's more of them playing politics, if I may say it that way.
02:37Like you, I don't think that they disagree with it fundamentally.
02:40It's more about, okay, they can't just give in and say, sure, we support the Prime Minister.
02:45There have to be a bit of a bargaining here and there so that they can appear as this formidable
02:51opposition
02:52because they're also talking to their bases, right?
02:54They can't just say, yeah, we support whatever the Prime Minister is doing.
02:57So this is how I'm looking at it.
02:59Both are thinking of, if I may say, on the next general election.
03:04Everyone is in campaign period right now.
03:06So this is how I see it right now.
03:09And then, of course, when we look at some of the overtures made, say, for instance, by the opposition,
03:14that they argue, especially Dr. Sritak Yudin, he argued that at the Parliament last week,
03:19he argued that 10-year limit is something that needs to be postponed or pushed off.
03:26And issues like cost of living, issues like economic matters needs to be debated, ART, for instance.
03:33And then, of course, DAP making very strong remarks, anywhere from saying that, you know, in the Congress of July,
03:43that they will sit, they might need to rethink about their position currently in the executive branch.
03:49So do you feel that the administration currently has building pressure to deliver what is needed?
03:57Or do you think that this is, quite frankly, business as usual?
04:01Yeah, I think the pressure is on them now.
04:03Because the pressure is now coming from within their own, with their own partners, right?
04:08Within their own government.
04:09So how can they just say, OK, we're not going to look at this or we're going to ignore this?
04:14Because DAP is a major partner.
04:16The biggest sits within Pakatan Harapan as well.
04:19So how can you just ignore this biggest, if I may say, voter bloc for Pakatan Harapan?
04:26So they are under pressure.
04:27And also, don't forget, the 10-11 PKR MPs as well.
04:31So that's within ANWR's own party, right?
04:35So the pressure is very hard on them now to go forward with these reforms.
04:39But again, how do they navigate that?
04:41I mean, if you talk about economic issues, and those are the business as usual that they should not ignore
04:48or, you know, they should acknowledge.
04:52But the way that I see it is that, from my perspective, the government's thinking is they have focused on
04:58that for the past two years, right?
05:0023, 24, 25, three years, in fact.
05:03They have focused on cost of living issues.
05:05And the proof is in the pudding, with strong GDP numbers being registered for the entire year of 2025.
05:13Ringgit is actually quite strengthening, against 3.89 currently.
05:17I don't know how it will be soon.
05:20And Ringgit being the best currency performer in Asia, and so on.
05:26There's also this whole notion of the direct financial assistance that is actually quite helping the rakyat, so to speak.
05:35So there's a lot that is worth noting to be discussed.
05:40But there are also other issues that, you know, I guess the SPRM issue, for instance, that is currently being
05:46hotly contested by all factions right now.
05:49But that aside, let's deep dive into the actual policy that is currently being done.
06:00Putting the term limit of a prime minister to, say, 10 years, on the offset, of course, the progressives would
06:09welcome such an institution.
06:14And the conservatives are saying that now is not the time, but I fail to see their arguments.
06:19Maybe you could help us see what is the thinking behind the opposition of putting a term limit on a
06:26prime minister.
06:27Perhaps make us understand their point of view before we deep dive into the mechanics of how it could be
06:32done and could be done well in Malaysia.
06:34Great. I like that you started with saying that the progressives have one view, conservatives have another,
06:39because Malaysians are mostly conservative, so we have to think of it that way.
06:44So from their point of view, the argument is mostly on two things.
06:48Number one is, why we're limiting a good leader, right?
06:53If someone is performing, why just say 10 years?
06:57And some of the examples that I keep on hearing when I talk to people, look at what Tun Mahadeh
07:01did, right?
07:02He had 20 years, 22 years, and look how developed Malaysia has become.
07:06What would happen if he had left in 1991, right?
07:10Could we have seen the same Malaysia that we see today?
07:13So that's the first argument.
07:17The second argument is, I can't think of it right now.
07:20I forgot. It just slipped my mind.
07:22But let's focus on that, because that is the biggest one that they kept on saying,
07:26that in a democratic sense, right, why are you putting a limit?
07:30People should be allowed to continue on, because putting a limit appears that you're stopping someone
07:36when they're at the height of you.
07:38Okay, now I remember my second point, which is that continuation of policies, right?
07:42That's the second thing that they always talk about.
07:44Of which we all know how it has been since 2018 until 2026.
07:48So that's the thing, if you...
07:52A plethora of policies to pick from, we didn't have time to see if anything is good or bad,
07:59because it's changing, like fleeting.
08:01So they're saying like 10 years might be the same thing that policies need time,
08:05especially economic policies, and it's time to mature and to see the result of it.
08:09So on the progressives' point of view, what was the intention behind such a proposal,
08:18even though I think the argument could be as, what do we call this, common sense,
08:23but still, let's get this out there.
08:25What was the thinking behind this push, and why the urgency to execute it now?
08:32Right. Common sense, yeah?
08:33I want to push back on that, because I don't see that being such a common view
08:38among people today, maybe for people like us,
08:41who may be more aware of the pros and cons of things.
08:44So when we talk about why certain segments of population in Malaysia is pushing for this,
08:50I think the biggest argument that I've seen and I've heard is that
08:53they went through that period of strong leadership,
08:57centralized leadership, personalized leadership,
09:00and they don't want a repeat of that.
09:02Because on the other hand, we hear people saying,
09:04what's wrong with that, right?
09:05Like we just discussed earlier.
09:06But from those who live through the spirit,
09:10we saw how it erodes democratic rights and whatnot.
09:12So we want to institutionalize prime ministerial term, basically, right?
09:19So that it doesn't get out of hand as it did before.
09:22And more than that, more closer in time to us,
09:26we saw what happened with Dato' Sri Najib, with 1MDB.
09:29So a lot of people wants to avoid a repeat of that, definitely, right?
09:32It's not just, Ton Mahadeh, we saw 1MDB as well.
09:36So these are all of the things that are playing in our mind
09:38that we want to avoid for the future of Malaysia.
09:42We're going to move on to the next subject.
09:44But before we do that,
09:46what is the probability of this getting passed in the parliament?
09:50As I am made to understand it,
09:52it does require an amendment to the constitution, therefore, two-thirds.
09:56Do you think that this administration can get two-thirds support
10:00to get this bill passed?
10:02In my opinion, they can.
10:04Because the thing is, I don't see much being said out there.
10:07On the opposition side, yes,
10:09initially, there were some pushback,
10:12but it's not to the point where they won't support it.
10:15I think one of the latest things was about saying,
10:18OK, we can support this,
10:20but you have to have other kind of reforms as well.
10:23Before this, they were talking about making sure
10:25the prime minister could not also be the finance minister.
10:28So from those things that they've said,
10:31I look at it positively that there might be support.
10:33And I think the thing is,
10:35they're not going to...
10:37They're going to support in principle.
10:38So how they negotiate with the government is another thing.
10:41But say, for instance, in the UK,
10:43where the Chancellor of the Exchequer
10:44was never also carrying the role of the prime minister,
10:47I'm not too sure.
10:48Is it a law there in the UK
10:51where the Chancellor of the Exchequer
10:53and the prime minister is meant to be separate?
10:55Or by tradition, they just don't do that?
10:57I believe it must be a law
10:58because I'm more familiar with the American political side.
11:01But yeah, I believe it's a law
11:02because it has to be different people for that.
11:06For that particular role.
11:08Okay, let's now move on to the more much debated bill,
11:14which is the separation of the public prosecutor
11:19along with the Attorney General.
11:21The Attorney General, of course,
11:23the role is to advise the government on legal matters,
11:26acts on behalf of the government
11:28when it comes to legal views and legal proceedings,
11:32leads the Attorney General chambers,
11:35and of course, how it's organising itself.
11:39And of course, the prosecutor or the Solicitor General,
11:43for instance, in that particular role,
11:45prosecutes people.
11:46And that role is actually quite critical
11:48because it also means to prosecute their bosses,
11:52if it comes down to that.
11:55And currently, it is together.
11:58And as I may admit to understand it,
12:01it is, of course, a hereditary or inherited role
12:05when we were seeking independence,
12:09taking the shape and form of, say, for instance,
12:11the India and Indian rule,
12:15which is, of course, based on the UK rule.
12:18But of course, India has since separated it
12:20some decades ago, the UK as well.
12:23But Malaysia has not done that.
12:26So if we were to truly, say,
12:28emulate those kind of roles and separation of roles,
12:31it's high time that Malaysia does that.
12:34But then there is also the urgency
12:37and the push for it to be done ASAP.
12:39And that is where the pushback happens,
12:43especially from the PKR 10.
12:46And their argument is on the mechanics
12:48and the details of it.
12:51Could you help us understand in terms of,
12:54first of all, from a political scientist standpoint,
12:58is this a reform policy that is good to be done?
13:03That's the first.
13:04Second is, how can it be done
13:06in Malaysian context, I suppose?
13:09Right.
13:10Is it good to be done?
13:12I mean, maybe you're asking the wrong person.
13:14I believe I'm a Democrat.
13:16So I believe, yeah, it has to be done.
13:18It has to be done because of the conflict of interest
13:20that you mentioned, right?
13:21So it's for the betterment of Malaysia as a whole,
13:24for the nation as a whole.
13:25How can you help a person that advises the government
13:28that also could possibly prosecute,
13:31like you said, their own bosses if need be?
13:33And it's not just about that.
13:34They also have the power to not prosecute, right?
13:39So that's something else.
13:40So action and inaction as well.
13:41Exactly.
13:41So you have to think about that.
13:43So from my point of view, definitely,
13:45if you're thinking about the future of democracy in Malaysia,
13:48what's best for the people,
13:49yes, we have to go for that.
13:51What's the second question just now?
13:52The second question is, how could it be operationalised, I suppose?
13:56In Malaysia.
13:56So that is the more difficult question
13:59because the way that I see it is that this is,
14:03on one hand, yes, this is the legal mechanism of doing this.
14:06But again, if you're asking me as a political sociologist,
14:09what about the people?
14:10How does the people view this?
14:12Do they understand?
14:13Because you can put all the mechanisms in place,
14:17but there might be workarounds in a way,
14:20or it might work against the people
14:24because there are always influences out there
14:28that we can't really control.
14:30So for me, the best guardrails is for the people,
14:34meaning that we have to develop that democratic culture,
14:37that norm that they see and understand why we need this.
14:40Are we there yet?
14:41So that is my question.
14:42So this is where I see the gap.
14:44On one hand, we have like a sort of elites
14:46that are pushing for this,
14:47but the rest of the people may not care so much about it.
14:51And I think this is where, if I may say this on camera,
14:54this is where the opposition is playing their role
14:57by saying that, you know, this is why we don't need this so much
15:00because this is not a priority for the people.
15:02And then, of course, it's not just this mechanics
15:06on operationalising these kind of reforms.
15:09How does this play when it comes to the political scene?
15:16There's a lot that is currently happening in the country.
15:18And, you know, Sabah, Sarawak, for instance.
15:21And Sarawak is still adamant on energy arguments
15:26and Petros and Petronas that is still currently happening.
15:29Sabah is on a completely different wavelength.
15:32They just need to get off poverty.
15:35And the recent state elections have clearly showed
15:38that a wholesale rejection of Semenanjung politics
15:44is in the air.
15:45It really, if we've seen Sabah never being united,
15:49this is the case that is uniting them,
15:52despite the political spectrum that is currently happening in Sabah.
15:55And then, of course, in Semenanjung,
15:57we've seen how, you know, the East Coast
15:58has a completely different take on how politics should be run.
16:01And then on the West Coast, where, you know,
16:03it's completely, completely different.
16:07How do you tie these various things
16:09that are currently happening on the ground?
16:11And how does this tie with us as a fabric of the nation?
16:16Are we truly a united nation?
16:19Or are we slowly drifting apart
16:21and trying to not see each other's point of view
16:24even further, I suppose?
16:28It's a scary thought,
16:29but it is a thought that needs to be had.
16:31That's a difficult one.
16:33To be honest, I do see a rising polarization in the country.
16:38And it all started in 2018.
16:41Like you said, it started with this regional polarization
16:44between Semenanjung, Sabah, Sarawak.
16:46And also, we look, like you said,
16:48within Semenanjung as well, right?
16:50This polarization between the conservative Malays on the right
16:53and, I guess, the rest somewhere in the center-left.
16:56So, we are polarizing, moving in different directions.
17:00And I think this is what makes it difficult
17:03for the government to kind of push anything.
17:06So, that is one pessimistic view, right?
17:08Oh, my God, how can we really bring everyone
17:10to support government policies and issues?
17:14But, again, I think that we should kind of celebrate this,
17:19that this is what we talk about democracy,
17:22differences of views, differences of different perspectives.
17:26The question now is, how do we manage it?
17:28So, this is where I think the government
17:30should play its role in really explaining.
17:32So, communication plays a big role here.
17:35What are their agenda?
17:36What are they doing?
17:37And how this is good for the people, for the country.
17:41But the thing is, a lot of people now have short-term views.
17:43So, when I talk about politics with people,
17:45they are not seeing, like, 10 years from now, 20 years from now,
17:48what do they care about how democracy is in Malaysia, you know?
17:52Short-termism is the biggest risk right now, I suppose.
17:56Yeah, and that is why we have all of these different views
17:58because we have different lived experiences.
18:00And the thing is, people run with this.
18:02People say, I can't see your point of view.
18:06Where, at the end of the day, we all want to have a better life,
18:09better Malaysia.
18:10And this is what the government should be doing, I think.
18:15You deal with a lot of young people.
18:18It's a challenge that I have never been able to grasp myself.
18:22I find young people very difficult, I suppose.
18:28But, what is their take?
18:30What happens in your classrooms?
18:32And when you deal with these young scholars,
18:36these mahasiswa that we speak of,
18:38how do they view the country and the political scene?
18:42To be honest, they're pessimistic.
18:44It's been a few years already, I've seen a similar trend.
18:47If I talk about trend, right,
18:49when I first started teaching about 7-8 years ago,
18:53students were a bit optimistic.
18:54They're talking about the things that we're talking about today,
18:56reform, you know,
18:58better Malaysia, more democratic Malaysia.
19:01But I see a serious shift in trend.
19:04The young ones today that I get in my classes,
19:06and these are political science students,
19:08so they may be interested or have some knowledge.
19:11They want to go back to a time that they read in their textbook,
19:15in the 80s and the 90s.
19:17They want to go back to that more stable period, politically.
19:21Stable, structured.
19:22We know where the lines are drawn.
19:24Yes.
19:25Before this, what I get from my students is they say,
19:28we only have two options back then.
19:30Marisan National, Pakatan Harapan.
19:32They don't like it.
19:32They want more options.
19:33Guess what?
19:34The kids today tell me,
19:35there are too many options.
19:37We don't like it.
19:38Having Pakatan, BN, Perikatan, GPS, GRS.
19:41Even within the names that you mentioned,
19:44there's slices and dices.
19:45Exactly.
19:46It's like the Boston Tea Party group.
19:49There's the Chuck Schumer group, you know,
19:52the Democrats and so on.
19:53Yes, the factionalism.
19:54And they don't like this factionalism.
19:56They say this is,
19:57for them,
19:58it's not what democracy or politics is about.
20:00Even though I try to, you know,
20:02factionalism should be common.
20:04Because again,
20:05these are diverse views.
20:06Even within the same party,
20:07if you have a big umbrella party,
20:09then you should expect factionalism.
20:11But they don't like it.
20:12So,
20:13that is my fear for the country actually.
20:15What about,
20:16do you supervise postgraduate as well?
20:18I do, yes.
20:19How's their view?
20:20What is their view?
20:21Unfortunately,
20:21my students are mostly international students,
20:23but I could...
20:24Still,
20:24I mean,
20:25it's not just about the national flavor.
20:27Exactly.
20:27I could say that
20:28they also hold the same view.
20:31Well,
20:31it depends on nationality, right?
20:33Those from India
20:34might be a bit more,
20:35you know,
20:35pro-democracy
20:36because as Muslims,
20:37they are struggling in India right now, right?
20:40So,
20:40the context is very clear.
20:42Muslims in India
20:43is not facing a good time.
20:46It's as simple as that.
20:47But if they're from Turkey,
20:48they're happy with the government.
20:50They're happy with that
20:51so-called stability
20:52that 20 years stable,
20:55one government,
20:56one party government.
20:57So,
20:58they like that,
20:59which is what we experienced before,
21:00right?
21:00Because when I talk to them,
21:02they look up to...
21:03Erdogan and...
21:04Erdogan and...
21:05And they look up to Malaysia
21:06during Mahathir's period.
21:07Okay.
21:07And they see that this is
21:09kind of like
21:10what we had before.
21:11So,
21:12there is this,
21:12this appetite for
21:13kind of strong man leadership
21:15that we kind of talk
21:15off camera earlier
21:17that they want
21:18this sense of,
21:19you know,
21:19we talk about how the world
21:20globally these days
21:21are so confusing.
21:23So,
21:23they want that anchor.
21:24And if we talk globally,
21:26this is also
21:27why we're seeing
21:28a lot of this rise
21:29of right-wing populace,
21:32right-wing
21:33parties and factions
21:34because people want
21:35an anchor.
21:36Do you feel that
21:40the temperature
21:41is heating up
21:42when it comes
21:43to domestic politics
21:44and do you feel
21:45that a general election
21:46is in the air?
21:49Much earlier
21:50than we think
21:51it would be.
21:51Say, for instance,
21:52what we scheduled
21:53is the parliament
21:53to be dissolved
21:54in November next year
21:56and a general election
21:57must be held
21:58no later than,
21:59say,
21:59February 28th.
22:01Okay,
22:01that's the schedule
22:02of the timeline.
22:03But because of
22:04what is happening
22:05right now
22:05and with the
22:10situation that
22:11the current
22:12administration is facing,
22:13are we facing
22:14an early election?
22:16Okay,
22:16if I may,
22:17I see two parts
22:17to your question.
22:18Number one,
22:19and I look at
22:19the temperature,
22:20it's not that hot right now.
22:21Oh, really?
22:22Yeah.
22:23In the sense that
22:25both sides
22:25are dealing with
22:26their own
22:27internal matters.
22:28Perikatan has
22:29their own issues,
22:31Pakatan has
22:32their own issues,
22:32PKR has
22:33their own issues,
22:34so everyone's
22:34like focusing
22:35on their own
22:36agenda and whatnot.
22:37So it's not
22:39really heating up
22:39to the point that
22:40we want to go
22:41to an election
22:41right now.
22:42But that's
22:43also the reason
22:44why we might
22:46have an election
22:47because there's
22:48a sense of
22:48confidence
22:49by the incumbent,
22:51by the current
22:51government looking
22:52at what is going
22:53with Perikatan.
22:54People are saying
22:54they should,
22:55you know,
22:56seize this moment
22:57and this is how
22:58Pakatan Harapan
22:59could perhaps
22:59get a second term
23:01and don't forget
23:02Barisan National
23:02is quiet
23:03but they're quite
23:04stable right now
23:05and this is a good
23:07time actually
23:07for Pakatan
23:08and Barisan National
23:09to have an election
23:11and also the other
23:13argument is that
23:13oh we want to bring
23:14all of the elections
23:15coming up together
23:16Melaka, Sarawak, Johor
23:18let's have everything
23:18together with the
23:19general election.
23:21So those are the
23:21calculations.
23:22DAP has made it clear
23:23that they wanted it.
23:24They made it public.
23:26They wanted it together
23:27but I don't see
23:28any political leader
23:30saying that
23:31they want it the same
23:33at least publicly.
23:34Privately I'm not too sure
23:35but yeah.
23:36But I think it's only
23:37Anthony Logue
23:37that's saying that
23:38yeah because of
23:40I would call this
23:41synchronising all the elections.
23:43From my perspective
23:44the thing with DAP
23:45right now
23:46with let's just say
23:47DAP and ANWR
23:49even though it's
23:50heating up in public
23:51the way that I view it
23:53is they can't really
23:55proceed without each other.
23:57So Anthony Logue
23:58is saying all of these
23:59things but can they
24:00really survive without
24:03PKR within Pakatan Harapan
24:05and like we discussed
24:06earlier ANWR also
24:07depends a lot on
24:08the support base of
24:11DAP.
24:11So even though
24:12all of these things
24:13are playing out
24:14right now
24:14I go back to
24:15my earlier argument
24:16that it's for
24:17their own supporters.
24:19So while they are
24:20like I said
24:21it looks like
24:21it's heating up
24:22but behind the scene
24:24I don't see a strong
24:25pressure for the government
24:27to kind of
24:28do much
24:29at this moment.
24:31Final question
24:32Dr. Shaza
24:33when it comes to
24:37the populace
24:38do you feel that
24:40they want an election
24:41or do you think
24:42that they still feel
24:43that let's give
24:44this administration
24:45a little bit more time
24:46and let the policies
24:47just stay
24:47as we speak of
24:48just now
24:49and do you feel
24:50that it's also
24:53important for us
24:54to look at
24:55an administration
24:56within a five year
24:57timeline
24:58every single time?
25:00Okay
25:00asking about the people
25:01that's the difficult part
25:02if I may tie it back
25:03to the polarization
25:04that we discussed earlier
25:06so we have all of
25:07these different views
25:08of course
25:09right
25:09so of course
25:10I hear a lot
25:11about people asking
25:12dissolve it now
25:13because we're not
25:14happy with the government
25:15right now
25:15let's have a brand new
25:16administration
25:17but don't forget
25:18there's only a segment
25:19of Malaysian population
25:20there's those
25:22that are saying
25:22no
25:23let this government
25:24run its course
25:25give it five years
25:26They have a mandate
25:27Exactly
25:27so why are you pushing
25:29to ask for a new administration
25:31if you're not happy
25:32with what's going on
25:32you can just pressure
25:33the current government
25:34without having
25:35a brand new administration
25:36every time you're unhappy
25:37right
25:38so that is how
25:40I see it
25:41that there's no
25:43clear united voice
25:44on what the people
25:45want at the moment
25:46Okay
25:47and on the reforms
25:49do you feel that
25:51this administration
25:52should continue on
25:53with the reforms?
25:53I mean
25:54separation of
25:55AGPP
25:5710 year limit
25:58but there's so many
25:59other reforms
25:59that the government
26:00is currently doing
26:01and wants to do
26:02and should we welcome it?
26:05Yeah we should
26:05and you were asking
26:06earlier about
26:07letting the government
26:08run for its full term
26:09right
26:10yeah I believe so
26:11like if
26:12they were voted in
26:13let them
26:14do what they can
26:16in the five years
26:17that they were afforded
26:18and if you don't
26:19like them
26:19then you can
26:20vote them out
26:21right
26:21that's not a big problem
26:23if we believe in this
26:24democratic cycle
26:25for the reform
26:27specifically that we
26:28talk about
26:28yes I think
26:29they should go on
26:30with it
26:31but of course
26:32take into consideration
26:33all views
26:34that are given
26:35from within
26:35and outside
26:36the government
26:36because we want
26:38these reforms
26:39to actually work
26:40because especially
26:41if I may add
26:42if we talk about
26:43the 10 year limit
26:44for the prime minister
26:45yes it looks good
26:46on paper
26:46but sometimes
26:47we don't talk about
26:49the prime minister
26:50might leave
26:50after 10 years
26:51but he might still
26:52have influence
26:53in other ways
26:54so this is why
26:55we have to think
26:56of it holistically
26:58the political funding
26:59act is very important
27:00so it's a wide reform
27:03and I think
27:04the Pakatan Harapan
27:05government
27:05is serious about it
27:06so let them
27:07do their job
27:09and see if they
27:09can fulfill
27:10those promises
27:10so you feel that
27:11it should be read
27:12together for instance
27:13the political funding
27:14act
27:14the PM
27:16tenorship
27:18curbing the influence
27:19of the PM
27:20because nothing
27:21stopping the PM
27:21from becoming
27:22say for instance
27:23the finance minister
27:24in year 11
27:25say for instance
27:26I mean these are all
27:27of course
27:27while it's hypothetical
27:28it's also a realistic
27:30scenario
27:30to be built upon
27:31yes
27:32and should never
27:34be taken to isolation
27:35correct yes
27:35that means there's
27:36a lot of work
27:37I mean you know
27:39there's a lot of work
27:40it's not just saying
27:41okay this is a trick
27:42and there you go
27:43and done
27:45so it's a long
27:47long
27:48journey
27:49I suppose
27:49for the government
27:50to actually embark on
27:51okay
27:52there's of course
27:53plenty of things
27:54to discuss
27:54but our time
27:55has come to an end
27:56that was
27:57Associate Professor
27:57Dr. Shazza Shukri
27:59of IIUM
28:01she's also a fellow
28:02at the ICS
28:03Yusuf Isha Institute
28:04in Singapore
28:05and of course
28:06if you want to learn
28:07more about conversations
28:08such as this
28:09you can head on
28:09to astroarwani.com
28:10and find out more there
28:11until then
28:12thanks very much
28:12for watching
28:13and goodbye
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