This is the ULTIMATE NBA DEBATE to find what team had the GREATEST NBA Duo of ALL TIME!
Who is your GOAT Duo? Let us know in the comments!
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#NBA
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Who is your GOAT Duo? Let us know in the comments!
#Clash
#NBA
#viral
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SportsTranscript
00:00My duo both have final MVPs on the same team together.
00:03Your duo didn't even like each other, man.
00:05And they 3-Ped it, so why does that matter?
00:07Draymond Green is a grade-A jackass.
00:09Steph Curry is an amazing human being that is amazing at keeping him level.
00:12He had a chance to win in 2019 with no Kevin Durant, no Boogie,
00:15and it was just Draymond and just Steph.
00:17And what happened? They got walked.
00:18You got beat by Rudy Gobert, and you are going to tell me
00:21that Jamal Murray is better than Scottie Pippen.
00:24Nobody plays off of anybody better than Jamal off Nikola Jokic.
00:27Then why don't they win as much as the score?
00:29They had better teams!
00:31Welcome to the GOAT bracket.
00:34We're here to find out the greatest duo of all time.
00:37Is it Jordan and Pippen, Steph and KD,
00:39or the iconic duo of Frankenstein and his bride?
00:42In The Bride, only in theaters, March 6th.
00:45Today, our judges are Derek, Kenny, and Mike.
00:48To kick us off, we've got our number 2 seed, Magic and Kareem,
00:51versus the number 7 seed, Steph and Draymond.
00:53Well, let's talk about Jabal and Magic,
00:56two of the greatest individual players.
00:58Now, when you put them together, we're talking about a big and a point guard
01:02who play off each other so well.
01:04I'm not having anything that I'm missing.
01:06I got a bucket getter in Jabal.
01:08I got a bucket getter in Magic.
01:09I got a transition guard in Magic.
01:11I got a transition big in Jabal, who wasn't that initially,
01:14but turned into that and became elite.
01:16These guys are fantastic together.
01:18You mentioned a whole lot of things besides defense,
01:19and you mentioned a whole lot of things that have nothing to do with them as a duo.
01:23Individually, obviously, the most talented duo up here,
01:25the two top five players of all time, as a duo, Draymond and Steph are by far
01:29the most complimentary duo of all time.
01:31If you have Steph Curry on the court, you have an elite offense.
01:33If you have Draymond Green on the court, you have an elite defense.
01:35That synergy cannot be matched by any duo ever.
01:38It's interesting you mentioned defense.
01:39I don't know if you know this, but when Jabal retired,
01:41he's the all-time shot block leader.
01:42Nobody can say that in NBA history.
01:44On top of him being the all-time shot block leader,
01:45when he retired, number 3 all-time and rebounder.
01:47That means that we're stopping plays with Jabal stopping plays.
01:51And on top of all of that, in terms of offense,
01:53he was the all-time leading scorer in NBA history.
01:55Nobody was getting more buckets than him.
01:56So now only do I have the best bucket getter.
01:58His best scoring years before Magic, nevertheless.
02:00It has nothing to do with the duo list.
02:01No, it doesn't.
02:01It blocks nothing to do with the duo list.
02:03It's an era where obviously more shots are taken there,
02:06more shots are funneled towards the big.
02:08Draymond Green is the best defender of his era.
02:10Imagine that, funneled towards the big.
02:11In the era where it's hardest to play defense.
02:13It's an era where offense is hit a point where it's unwatchable to some fans.
02:16Harder to play defense?
02:17It's interesting you mentioned harder to play defense.
02:19Because I'm playing in the big man era, and you're talking about funneling guys toward me.
02:22So in addition to me having to deal with Moses, having to deal with Artis Gilmore,
02:26having to deal with all of these bigs,
02:27now I've got to also deal with other guards getting funneled toward me,
02:29and I'm smacking that shit into the third and fourth row.
02:31Prime James Harden with max spacing around him.
02:33Nevertheless, everything we say about Jordan preventing legends from getting rings,
02:36this duo prevented legends from getting rings.
02:38James Harden is known as a playoff choker,
02:40one of the worst offensive players to fall apart in the playoffs over and over again.
02:44LeBron got stopped from having the greatest legacy of all time
02:46because of these duos.
02:48That's without even getting into Damian Lillard getting locked up all the time by these guys.
02:51A whole slew of stars that couldn't get anything going in an era where
02:53everybody's offensive numbers are so good in the playoffs
02:55until you see Draymond Green in the playoffs.
02:57And it's interesting you mentioned guys' numbers,
02:58but Draymond Green's numbers fell off as time went on.
03:02Jabal and Magic, by the way, when these guys were together,
03:05the longer they stayed together, the better Magic even got.
03:07Draymond Green was second in DPOI two years ago when he was washed.
03:10That's quite the longevity for an elite defender.
03:12Think about who he was going up against.
03:13Imagine Jabal going up against Evan Mobley.
03:16Are we serious right now?
03:17Imagine Jabal having to deal with Jaron Jackson.
03:19Jaron Jackson is getting played off the floor against Jabal.
03:22Sure, sure.
03:23Mentioning the 150th best players they've played against.
03:25Absolutely.
03:26This is his competition.
03:27James Harden.
03:28That's his competition.
03:28Meanwhile, Jabal's competition as a defender,
03:30he's got to deal with Moses.
03:32He's got to deal with Hakeem Olajuwon.
03:33Bigs like that, Patrick Ewing.
03:35And he's still, I'm finals MVP at 37, 38 years old.
03:38Y'all haven't even lasted that long.
03:39You were telling me that Draymond Green in the finals, he shouldn't even play in the NBA finals.
03:44Jabal, on the other hand, in 1985, at 38 years old, was the best player in the finals.
03:52They gave him the flowers.
03:53Why?
03:54Because he was the best player in the finals.
03:55Draymond, on the other hand, was basically playing himself off the court.
03:58Why?
03:58Because offensively, he can be deficient every buck again.
04:01And that's why we have such an amazing duo and why we're better than the sum of our parts.
04:04So many duos can come up here and say they have the two most talented players.
04:07If we're using your logic, Steph and KD are by far the best duo of all time.
04:10But we're not.
04:10We're talking about duos and complementing each other.
04:12Draymond Green is a grade A jackass.
04:14Steph Curry is an amazing human being that is amazing at keeping him level.
04:17Steph Curry, amazing offensive player that needs some defensive help.
04:19Here comes Draymond Green.
04:21They are yin and yang.
04:21They make each other better.
04:22Everything you're saying about Draymond, they want in spite of it.
04:23And that's the same thing that Jabal and Magic did.
04:25They were basically yin and yang and made each other better.
04:27Jabal didn't even want to play fast.
04:29He didn't want to play fast.
04:30There's no want to here.
04:31These guys can do things.
04:32Once he did, he saw what ended up happening with each other.
04:35They became the best.
04:35Six NBA championships.
04:36They enabled Kevin Durant to get a ring.
04:37They enabled Kevin Durant to get a ring.
04:39Nobody else could ever do that amazing accomplishment.
04:42The amount of counters.
04:43No, this was an amazing debate.
04:44The amount of counters is crazy.
04:46OG put me on some game because this is a duo that obviously I never got to see.
04:49I do think OG didn't start off talking about how Magic and Kareem mesh well together.
04:55I do like that Isaac countered that by saying you never talked about them as a duo
04:58and how Steph and Dre are like, they mesh well together.
05:02With a decision of two to one, the Golden State Warriors and Steph Curry and Draymond Green is advancing to
05:08the next round.
05:12I thought it was interesting that I didn't bring up Jabal and Magic as a duo.
05:17In fact, that's one of the first things I brought up.
05:18When I said that these two guys being as good as they were apart, once they got together, they were
05:23even more awesome.
05:24I originally brought that point right to the table and I talked about how good Jabal was as a defender,
05:28how good Magic was.
05:29And I talked about how good they were together and how they won as many games as that they did
05:33and as many games they did.
05:35But clearly I didn't commit you guys.
05:36So our next matchup is the number four seed, Duncan and Tony Parker versus the number five seed, Steph and
05:42KD.
05:43First things first, you guys look great today.
05:45All you judges.
05:46Oh, man, I appreciate it.
05:48I appreciate the glaze.
05:49Nice plus one.
05:50My duo check boxes, right?
05:51We got accolades together.
05:53We won together.
05:54We got one of the highest win percentages in NBA history.
05:57Over 800 wins together when you combine the regular season and the playoffs.
06:00Four championships.
06:01I don't know what you're going to be able to say against that.
06:04I'm very interested to hear.
06:06You do have an incredible duo as two individuals.
06:08But together, I just don't know if they can top Duncan and Parker.
06:12Okay, you said your duo has all those accolades and stuff.
06:14But at the end of the day, the Spurs have such a great team.
06:17You have Greg Pakovich leading the charge.
06:18And just overall, the Spurs, okay, so four championships in 16 years, right?
06:24The last one because of Danny Green and Kawhi Leonard.
06:26But look at the Warriors.
06:28I mean, KD and Curry, three finals and appearances in three years and two rings.
06:33Like, no one's doing that.
06:35If they were so great, wouldn't it be more?
06:37It wasn't more because of that man right there.
06:39Not him, but Draymond Green.
06:41Draymond Green ruined the chemistry.
06:42KD would have stayed there longer.
06:43You just held one of the points I couldn't wait to get to.
06:45Your duo's so weak that they got another guy on the team.
06:49They almost made four.
06:49That's not because of basketball.
06:50No, no, no, no.
06:51No, no.
06:51They asked him to have Klay or Draymond, which means that your duo had a lot of options.
06:55There was only Tony Parker and Duncan on the table.
06:58There was no other duo that they could have put on this panel up here.
07:01So you really got to force some.
07:03I'm fighting against four up here.
07:05How good is your duo that they can make another duo on this panel?
07:08Okay, no, no, no.
07:09Okay, hold on.
07:10My duo won in the 2000s and the 2010s.
07:13They won while they were young and they primed.
07:14They won while they were older.
07:15When they were old, it was because of Kawhi and Danny Green.
07:18Come on, you know that, dude.
07:19That makes them so great.
07:20That doesn't make them great.
07:21That makes Kawhi great.
07:22That does nothing.
07:23Kawhi won the MVP without having to play ran for him.
07:26Correct?
07:27They was able to open up the light, let him get shot.
07:30Manu Di Noboli is a guy to get shot.
07:32This is not silly at all.
07:33Silly argument.
07:33At the end of the day, look, pound for pound.
07:36Look, both of them were the top three players in the NBA at the same time.
07:39That's never happened in NBA history.
07:41So if they were so great, why did they need to come together?
07:44I don't know what the hell that has to do with anything.
07:46At the end of the day, they are the best duo.
07:49Just two of them together, the best duo.
07:50No other duo up here.
07:52Maybe Kobe and Shaq, I'll get to you later, brother.
07:54But at the end of the day, I really think KD and Curry, just pound for pound, top three
07:59in the NBA at that time.
08:00They did a lot of winning.
08:01They had the greatest playoff run of all time, 16-1.
08:03No one's touching that.
08:04They had, I mean, 16-1 is the greatest playoff run.
08:08I mean, at the end of the day.
08:09I mean, we have a duo that did that.
08:11Okay, but in the modern NBA, closer to the modern NBA, it's harder defenses, and we'll
08:16get to that later.
08:16But at the end of the day, I do think Curry and KD, any argument you're going to say,
08:20Tony Parker, unfortunately, I love the guy.
08:22I'm from San Antonio.
08:23But he's not touching Curry and KD in terms of greatness at the end of the day.
08:27It's a duo.
08:27It's a duo.
08:28And my duo both have final MVPs on the same team together.
08:32Your duo cannot do that.
08:33So you're saying because KD won two finals MVPs, Curry won a final MVP down the line.
08:38So Curry's capable of doing it.
08:41He could have won it with KD.
08:42He didn't.
08:43There is no coulda, shoulda.
08:44Because he was playing second.
08:45There is no coulda, shoulda, whata.
08:46He was great enough to give it to KD at the time.
08:49In fact, my duo had top five offense and top five defense.
08:53Top 10 defense, top 10 offense.
08:55Together.
08:56Okay, you keep saying defense.
08:57What is Tony Parker contributing to the defense, dude?
08:59I don't give a damn.
09:00Well, you just said defense.
09:03If he was on the court and they was able to get it done, wasn't he?
09:06Wasn't he?
09:07Wasn't he?
09:08Wasn't he?
09:09The Warriors did the same thing.
09:1016 and 1.
09:11Okay, they did it together.
09:12And then you're comparing the great teammates that Duncan and Parker had.
09:17Slow down.
09:18Ginobili.
09:18You got it.
09:19He's a goal.
09:19You got it.
09:20You got it.
09:21You got it.
09:21No, I got it.
09:22God damn it.
09:22You got it.
09:22But yeah, at the end of the day, I think just.
09:25You don't even have arguments.
09:26You don't even have arguments.
09:27I keep saying arguments.
09:28You up here because they asked you and I'm making arguments.
09:29Every argument.
09:30They want you to have arguments.
09:30Every argument you're saying doesn't make sense.
09:32He gave y'all content.
09:33And then he just has hella confidence.
09:34Too much of a load.
09:35Oh, my gosh.
09:35Y'all gave me too much of a load.
09:37Oh, my gosh.
09:38I will say you got circles talked around you, mama.
09:40I'm sorry.
09:41It just wasn't there.
09:48It's Duncan and Parker.
09:49Duncan and Parker.
09:50Duncan and Parker.
09:55He did run circles around me.
09:57But at the end of the day, I think we all know Curry and KD are better.
10:00But at the end of the day, this is a debate show.
10:02And he did debate me better.
10:20Up next, we have our three seed, Kobe and Shaq versus the number six seed, LeBron and Wade.
10:25All right, when we're talking about Shaq and Kobe, we're not even talking about a Batman
10:29and Robin situation.
10:30We are talking about Batman and Batman, Batman and Superman, whatever you want to call it,
10:34because these two were top five in their prime at the same time.
10:38They three-peated.
10:39They got more rings than LeBron and Wade.
10:42I mean, I would honestly like to hear what your argument is.
10:44I think Batman and Batman is one of the wildest takes I've heard in my entire life.
10:49You don't believe that, yo damn self.
10:51Why would you say that?
10:52There's no such thing as Batman and Batman when it comes to that duo because that was
10:55purely seen as Shaq's team as one.
10:58But compared to my duo, which is more not on the same level necessarily because there's
11:02a clear alpha, we've seen LeBron win two MVPs, Shaq won one.
11:06We've seen you guys win three championships, cool.
11:08We were able to get two.
11:10And something about my duo that's even more impressive, which is not to say yours is not,
11:14but in terms of how our team is constructed, it was much harder to win back then considering
11:20our two-star players and how duplicate them.
11:22The weak East?
11:23Are you talking about the weak East?
11:24We're not talking about the weak East.
11:25Yes, we are.
11:26That's exactly what we're talking about.
11:27We're talking about duos right now.
11:28We're talking about the Western Conference.
11:29Don't lose the plot.
11:30Don't lose the plot.
11:30You mentioned team accomplishments.
11:32What are you talking about?
11:32I'm talking about team accomplishments, but I'm talking about how my team is constructed
11:35as well.
11:35You feel me?
11:36To beat better competition, right?
11:37You said that.
11:38So what?
11:39Competition.
11:40That was the word they said.
11:41I'm not talking about competition.
11:41Oh my God.
11:42Am I being gassed?
11:43Are you gassed anymore right now?
11:45What type of conversation are we having right now?
11:46Okay, go ahead, go ahead.
11:47Okay, so point is LeBron, two rings with the Miami Heat.
11:51LeBron, also two NBA MVPs with this team.
11:55Of course, D-Wade was on the decline, but even while he was on the decline, he was still
11:59making all NBA seasons continuously throughout the entire run.
12:02With what they're able to accomplish for that short amount of time, while we witnessed,
12:07unlike D-Wade, his health slowly declining two championships is one of the more impressive
12:11feats of all time.
12:12I think we cannot ignore 2011.
12:142011.
12:15I don't think we cannot ignore 2011.
12:17Your duo didn't even like each other, man.
12:18That doesn't mean nothing.
12:19You're talking about 2011?
12:20And they 3-peated, so why does that matter?
12:21Why does that matter?
12:22They didn't like each other, and they 3-peated.
12:24You can't talk about the Shaq and Kobe duo without also talking about the disappointments
12:30of the conversation, too.
12:31At the peak of the powers of your duo that could not win a championship.
12:33Your guy went big for no reason.
12:34He ran the other guy out of the city.
12:36He had to leave.
12:37Because they won three championships.
12:39There was winning too much.
12:40There was winning too much?
12:41Yes.
12:42Nah, man.
12:42You can't be the greatest duo of all time.
12:44You say you're winning too much.
12:44You said not four, not five, not six, not seven.
12:46Y'all got two.
12:47I did not say that.
12:48What are we doing?
12:48I did not say that, all right?
12:49I'm talking about these two in a bit.
12:50I'm the representation right now.
12:52At the party.
12:53Exactly.
12:54Exactly.
12:54Let's get the facts straight.
12:55Outside of the actual accomplishments, if we're talking about the on-court products
13:00and the, at times, difficulties that could happen with my duo, with them being able
13:04to make it work, being similar-ish players in terms of how they like to get their buckets,
13:08while also predicate, like, really influencing our entire generation.
13:12Really, people don't want to talk about it, but LeBron and Wade and how they're able
13:15to thrive as a slashing duo really built a lot of things that we've seen over the last,
13:20what, 10, 15 years.
13:22Meanwhile, Shaq and Kobe, they're just Shaq and Kobe.
13:24Yeah, yeah.
13:25They're just Shaq and Kobe.
13:26But there's real, actual brain work and brain trust and actual skills that have to happen
13:30on the court in order for us to thrive, which is actually, like, when you talk about what
13:34the word greatness means, this is defied by that.
13:37I just think if you look at the help around Shaq and Kobe compared to LeBron and D.
13:40What help do we have?
13:41You're not saying, Chris Bosh, please don't do that.
13:43It was supposed to be a big three.
13:44No one ever talks about him as-
13:45It was a big three.
13:45It was a big three.
13:46It was supposed to be.
13:47Who was the third best player on the Lakers with Shaq and Kobe?
13:49It's Shaq and Kobe.
13:50There was no, there was no, there was no-
13:52Exactly.
13:52No one ever talks about it.
13:53That's the point.
13:54This was a hard debate to judge.
13:56Like, you can tell y'all, y'all had the most friendliest debate up there.
14:01Even though we didn't spend too much time on it, bringing up 2011, I think does play some part.
14:05For me personally, I'm leaning towards Kobe and Shaq.
14:08I'm going to go Kobe and Shaq.
14:09I'm leaning Kobe and Shaq.
14:12Eliminator.
14:14I understand their point.
14:16It's Kobe and Shaq.
14:17Whenever people talk about duos, memes, I get it.
14:20It's them.
14:21Wrapping up the first round, we have the number one seed, Jordan and Pippen.
14:24Versus the number eight seed, Jokic and Murray.
14:26I don't understand how you are going to compete with all of the championships, with all of the accolades, with
14:32all of the winning.
14:33When your duo has one ring, has a couple of nice runs, and it's just, it's just there.
14:39Like, it is a duo.
14:40We have like seven more duos or six more duos here.
14:43You are the worst one here.
14:45You would get beat by all the other duos here.
14:47And so, I don't understand why going up against Jordan and Pippen is the matchup for you.
14:53What you have, you know, against them.
14:56So, the conversation is about the best duos of all time, meaning how you play together.
15:00So, I would think that two elite scorers, two elite passers, two elite playmakers that play together would make a
15:04better duo from a center point guard position than a shooting guard and a small forward.
15:08On top of that, they are the only duo ever to go through an NBA playoff run average 25-5
15:13-5 together on elite efficiency versus the best defenses in the playoffs.
15:17And they have 1,000 assists between each other in just eight years played.
15:20So, we can get to this conversation.
15:22You said a lot of good attributes from your duo.
15:26The one thing that you did not say is good defense because Jamal Murray is not a good defender and
15:30Nikoli Jokic also.
15:31And Scottie Pippen is the worst scorer between all of them.
15:34Scottie Pippen.
15:34The worst offensive player between all of them.
15:36Jamal Murray is the worst player.
15:38Jamal Murray has a 50-42-53-0 game in three straight games.
15:42He is the worst player out of those four.
15:43Do you realize this?
15:44That's the funny part about this.
15:45Apart?
15:45In the one year that this duo was not together, Scottie Pippen is leading them to a conference finals.
15:52Do you realize that the one year—
15:53Your duo missed out on time because Scottie Pippen—
15:55The issue you're running into is that Jamal Murray is one of three players, including Larry Bird and Steph Curry,
16:01to ever average 25-5-5 and 39% from three and 90% from the free-throw line ever.
16:07And on top of that, you've got three—
16:08So, that makes it better than Scottie Pippen.
16:10You've got four 30-20-10 games in the NBA playoffs for Nikoli Jokic.
16:12So, that makes it better than Scottie Pippen.
16:13And then on top of that, what you can get out of Jamal Murray—
16:16So, that makes it better than—
16:17Yes, what you can get out of Jamal Murray—
16:17He's better than Scottie Pippen.
16:18And what you can get out of Jamal Murray and Nikoli Jokic as a duo, because the conversation is duo,
16:23not individual player.
16:24How you play together.
16:25How you actually match up through the NBA playoffs together.
16:27How you play versus elite competition.
16:29How you play when you need to be guarded in the pick and roll.
16:31How you play when you run in one switch.
16:32When you run in one Iverson cut, you can put both of them in the action.
16:35When you want to get pinned down for both of them, you can do both of them.
16:37The thing is, when you play versus Jokic and Murray, these are two elite scorers and elite playmakers, and they
16:42play off of each other better than Pippen and Michael Jordan.
16:44If we're doing accolades, you've got a conversation.
16:46If we're doing titles, you've got a conversation.
16:48If we're doing individual achievements, you've got a conversation.
16:51But the question is duo.
16:51That's everything in the game.
16:52What are you talking about?
16:53The question is duo.
16:55If we're doing winning or accolades.
16:56The question is duo.
16:56How you play together is a duo.
16:59That's the conversation.
17:00Did Pippen and Jordan play on two great teams?
17:03They absolutely did.
17:04Did they play on a great championship team with Bill Jackson?
17:06They absolutely did.
17:07But what happened is, when you play together as a duo, you have to be able to complement each other's
17:12skill set.
17:13What happened is, in terms of complementing skill sets, again, your duo has no defense to it at all.
17:21And even, hold on, hold on.
17:23We're doing narratives.
17:23We can do narratives if you want.
17:25Because I know Scottie Pippen is a massive choker in the playoff.
17:28Massive choker in the playoff.
17:29Just we're doing narratives.
17:30Michael Jordan couldn't win anything by himself, since we're doing narratives.
17:33I can tell you this right now.
17:34When they needed to play in the playoff play defense, they had the third best defense.
17:38Of course.
17:38They had the third best defense in the NBA playoffs in 2023.
17:41You can even have this narrative.
17:42So people keep saying this not defense thing.
17:44I've seen them guard Anthony Davis well.
17:45You can still have this.
17:46I've seen them guard Rudy Gobert and Anthony Edwards well.
17:48Rudy Gobert?
17:49I've seen them guard all these players well.
17:50Rudy Gobert hit a fadeaway jumper over Nicole Liokas.
17:53I saw LeBron James get packed up.
17:54I saw LeBron James get packed up.
17:56And you are going to tell me that Jamal Murray is better than that.
17:59That's it.
18:01LeBron James has been swept twice in his career before he got to them.
18:05What do you mean you let me talk?
18:06This is a debate.
18:06I've let you talk so much.
18:07Make better points.
18:08I've let you talk so much.
18:08LeBron James got swept.
18:10You're loud.
18:10You're just loud.
18:10Got swept.
18:11You know, make a better point.
18:12Go ahead.
18:12Make a basketball point.
18:13Go ahead.
18:13One, again.
18:14Make a basketball point.
18:15One, again.
18:15Peaced up by Rudy Gobert.
18:17And you talked about.
18:18They lost one game off that one shot, by the way.
18:21And you talked about.
18:21And you talked about.
18:22Oh, yeah.
18:22Michael Jordan can't win by himself.
18:24I'll let you have it.
18:25They won together as a duo.
18:27But again.
18:28Six times.
18:28We're talking about duo and how you play together.
18:30Darn, man.
18:31You know what?
18:32You remind me of me.
18:33Because if I was in your seat, the motherfucker would have talked louder than me, too.
18:37You know what I'm saying?
18:39But his talking louder and his points are going to get him the edge.
18:42Number eight, Nuggets, gave a strong argument.
18:44And he had a lot of counters.
18:46Yeah.
18:46I'm going to have to go with Nuggets, too.
18:51I mean, I feel like Rudy Gobert just hit a fadeaway shot over me to send me out to the
18:55playoffs.
18:56This is crazy.
18:56Kicking off the second round, we have our number four seed, Duncan and Tony Parker,
19:00versus the number eight seed, Jokic and Murray.
19:02I said this before.
19:03I'm going to continue to say it.
19:04Tony Parker, Tim Duncan, the greatest duo that we have on this panel.
19:08Simple reasons.
19:09Top ten offenses.
19:10Top ten defenses.
19:11Top five offenses.
19:12Top five defenses.
19:14You know the Western Conference like I do.
19:16They went through it all.
19:17We're one of the few people and few teams.
19:18I don't know if anybody else has done this.
19:20We swept LeBron James in NBA finals together.
19:22And we probably started the revolution that you see in the NBA of stars going into team
19:27up.
19:27Because that spanking that they gave LeBron in the finals.
19:30Ultimately, one of those things that sent him to the Miami Heat.
19:33And then we have the domino effect of KD going to the Warriors and so on and such.
19:37It's funny you bring up sweeping LeBron James.
19:39I distinctly remember Jamal Murray averaging 32-5 on 50-40-90 versus LeBron James to sweep
19:45him out the Western Conference finals.
19:46And I do think it's funny that I'm arguing the duo of the Spurs when Tony was clearly the
19:51third best player between Manu, Tony, and Tim Duncan.
19:55So that's interesting.
19:56And also, between Jokic and Jamal Murray, they have revolutionized how you run offense
20:00between a guard and a center by the way that they're all great screeners, they're great
20:05passers, great decision makers, and great scorers on top of that.
20:08How the hell is Manu Ginobili better than Tony Parker, a finals MVP winner?
20:12Four-time All-NBA, six-time All-Star.
20:15Explain to me how Manu Ginobili is better than Tony Parker.
20:18And the reason why Jamal Murray and Nikola Jokic are such a great duo is the fact that
20:21you could run these inverted pick-and-rolls.
20:23Namely, for instance, when you played them against them in the Western Conference finals,
20:26when AD and they would have Dennis Schroeder, whoever, would guard the two players, they
20:30would run this inverted pick-and-roll, which forces the big to have to show and recover
20:33or you force a switch.
20:34And what's funny is, is Jokic is the best post-scoring big we've had in the NBA since
20:39Shaquille O'Neal.
20:40And the way they work together, when you have an elite three-point shooter and elite passer,
20:43and you have a player that's literally one of the most efficient scorers of all time,
20:47and Nikola Jokic, who's shooting 70% on floaters, 60% on mid-range, and 44% from three.
20:53You had me going.
20:53And then on top of that, if you add the fact that you have Jamal Murray and Nikola Jokic together,
20:58then he should have the same amount of rings or more than Tim Duncan.
21:03Again, we're getting to this ring argument.
21:05We're talking about how they play together.
21:06Because Tim Duncan is that great of a player.
21:06And so is Tony Parker, and he was able to do it together.
21:09But the great part about having a dual discussion is you have to talk about how they play together.
21:12Let me give you a set.
21:13My podcast playing together.
21:14The Denver Nuggets and the way that they run that horse set.
21:17What they do is they'll put Nikola Jokic, they'll put Jamal Murray right at that nail.
21:21I believe that you're my age.
21:21And they'll run a 1-5 pick-and-roll or a 1-4 pick-and-roll.
21:24And what they'll do is you've seen versus the Miami Heat.
21:28Versus the Miami Heat.
21:29Versus the Los Angeles Lakers.
21:30Versus the Minnesota Timberwolves.
21:31And they were so great, they were able to pump out him.
21:34I think what's so interesting about this.
21:36They kept that team so great in the line that they was able to get a Danny Green.
21:40They was able to go let a Kawhi Leonard.
21:42But if you're going to say who can play off of who.
21:44It was the ecosystem of them too.
21:45But again, you don't want to have a conversation about who can play off of who.
21:48Tony Parker played off of Tim Duncan.
21:49No.
21:50But Jamal, nobody plays off of anybody better than Jamal off Nikola Jokic.
21:53Then why don't they win as much as the Spurs?
21:54Because they had better teams.
21:57That's the whole point.
21:58No, they don't.
21:58If you're going to lie to me, I want everybody to listen in the audience.
22:01If you're going to lie to me and say that the Spurs didn't have better team than this Nuggets team,
22:06you're lying and you lost the debate.
22:08And make sure, judges, you know that.
22:10No.
22:11They had Kawhi Leonard.
22:12They had all of these other players.
22:14They had Manu Ginobili.
22:16They had David Robinson.
22:17What am I hearing?
22:19What am I hearing?
22:20They have championship without David Robinson.
22:23Tony Parker wasn't on the team.
22:25Tony Parker was not on the team.
22:27What are you talking about?
22:27Tim Duncan won.
22:29Tim Duncan won before he got there.
22:31You have to know it.
22:33You have to know it.
22:33You have to know this shit.
22:34Wait a minute.
22:34Wait a minute.
22:35Did Tim Duncan win?
22:38No, no, don't look at Tim.
22:39No, no, no.
22:40Come back.
22:40Did Tim Duncan win before Tony got there?
22:43Yes.
22:44Okay.
22:44You make my point.
22:45How many did he win after?
22:46He had David Robinson and then he had the best defense in the NBA with him.
22:51Are you credited?
22:53Let me take this.
22:54Let me take this.
22:54Are you saying Tim Duncan ain't great?
22:55And then we're talking duo.
22:56No, he's Courtney Gray.
22:57So what are you talking about?
22:58But told Jamal Murray.
22:58So was Nikola Jokic.
22:59Matter of fact, you.
23:00And Tim Duncan.
23:00Matter of fact, and by the way y'all, you yourself think Jokic is the best offensive player
23:04ever.
23:04I've heard you say it.
23:05I think that because this is going so well, we're going to get 24 seconds each for you
23:11guys uninterrupted to give your final point on why you have the best duo.
23:14Now, if Nikola Jokic and Jamal Murray are as great as you say, then they should be able
23:19to produce more championships.
23:21They weren't able to do that as much as Tony Parker and Tim Duncan.
23:25You talked about sweeping LeBron James when he was in his late 30s, almost 40.
23:29Tim Duncan and Tony Parker did that in the prime of LeBron James' career.
23:33My duo is better than yours.
23:35I understand that you're a Nuggets fan, so this is a little bit more passionate for you,
23:37but let's not be delusional.
23:39I know that you know basketball, two finals MVPs on the same team, able to do it at the
23:44same level consistently in two different eras, the 2000s and the 2010s.
23:49The fact that you're bringing up sweeping LeBron James with Booby Gibson as his second best
23:54player goes to show how desperate you are in this conversation.
23:56And then on top of that, talking about Jamal Murray and talking about Nikola Jokic, the
24:00reason why the duo works, if they have a synergy that we literally haven't seen between two
24:04players that are this level of scorers, this level of passers, this level of player makers,
24:08versus any defense.
24:09Matter of fact, versus the best defense we've ever seen in the OKC Thunder, with just three
24:13healthy players, they went to seven in that series, with a 40-15-5 game twice for Nikola
24:18Jokic and a 40 ball from Jamal Murray versus the Clippers as well.
24:21Yeah, you need 55 seconds?
24:22He didn't take 24 seconds.
24:24He took 45 seconds.
24:25It's a lot of good points.
24:27It's a lot of times where people shut down those points.
24:30I'm giving it to Tim Duncan and Tony Parker.
24:33I'm giving it to Jamal Murray and Nikola Jokic.
24:37He tried to go last, so he ain't more quickly than that.
24:40I'll give it to the number eight seed who came out and fought Jamal Murray and Nikola
24:45Jokic.
24:51I'm glad to end here.
24:53I don't got much more for y'all.
24:54My voice is gone.
24:55I'm limiting my words from now on.
24:58My name is Frankenstein.
25:00I am a monster.
25:01No, no, no!
25:02No, no!
25:03No, no!
25:03The dead have got something to say, and I'm saying it!
25:11The Bride.
25:11Rigadar.
25:12March 6th.
25:13Wrapping up our second round matchups.
25:14We have our number three seed Kobe and Shaq versus the number seven seed Stefan Draymond.
25:19We are talking about two top five players in the game at their prime.
25:22We are talking about two superstars in their prime who three-peated, who were the primary
25:27engines of the success of their teams.
25:29We're talking about those two against Steph Curry and a role player.
25:33I'm sorry.
25:35I don't even think they should be in this bracket in the first place.
25:37Well, that's too damn bad because they are.
25:39And that's because they're a better duo than your duo, who obviously could not survive
25:42on each other for more than three and a half years together at their prime before they
25:45had to break apart.
25:46My duo has all the reason in the world to break up over the years, and they continue
25:49to stay together.
25:50I have longevity on my side.
25:51Obviously, at the peak, everything I said in the first round, I have the best offensive
25:55player in the league, the best defensive player in the league.
25:57The two-way synergy is unmatched.
25:58That's a better combination than your guys, who are more talented, obviously.
26:02My duo actually makes each other better, actually covers for their faults, stay together for
26:05the long run, are way more influential.
26:07Nobody's influenced by Shaq being big.
26:09Nobody can go out there and say, I'm going to go be Shaq and Kobe.
26:11A whole league said, I want to get my Steph Curry and my Draymond.
26:14We talk so much about small ball, talking about how size doesn't matter, we need more
26:18shooting and all this stuff.
26:19Nobody's won with it besides Draymond Green at center.
26:21They have influenced the entire generation to try to be like them, try to find their
26:24Steph, find their Draymond.
26:25Nobody has done it.
26:26They define their generation better.
26:27They're just as dominant.
26:28Have more rings than your top best duo of all time, there's more talented players.
26:32What about Draymond?
26:33What about him?
26:34Where is he in the power forward conversation?
26:36One of the greatest defenders of all time.
26:37Where is he in the power forward conversation?
26:38Probably low-key.
26:39He's probably pretty goddamn high relative to what you perceive as his stats.
26:42There's no relativity when it comes to Shaq.
26:44He's probably a top 10.
26:44He's just one of the best centers of all time.
26:45No, that's crazy.
26:46He's probably a top 10 power forward of all time because he's such an amazing duo to
26:49Steph Curry.
26:49That is a singular reason why he's in that conversation, why he's going to be a Hall of
26:52Famer, because his defense is so special playing off of Steph Curry specifically, that
26:56him being a duo with Steph elevates him in these conversations.
27:00Steph Curry playing next to Draymond Green and having that defender by him, that
27:02playing next to him, elevates him to being the greatest point guard of all time.
27:05You're not going to get away with the fact that the success of the Golden State Warriors
27:08was not just Steph, Draymond, and them running over the West.
27:13It was Steph, Draymond, Klay, Sean Livingston, Andre Godala, all of them.
27:16When we're talking about the Lakers, it was Shaq, Kobe, and I dare to ask you again, who
27:19was your third best player?
27:20Robert Ory, because he told me when I asked last time.
27:21Yeah, yeah, yeah.
27:22Let's go research.
27:23How about you try it?
27:24So we're talking about Robert Ory versus Klay Thompson, one of the best two guards of all
27:27time, one of the best shooters of all time.
27:29I'm supposed to punish my team for having a good GM and finding more pieces that are good?
27:34You're not.
27:35That's the only reason I'm bringing it up.
27:36They won with Klay Thompson being really good in 2015, and obviously there for the double
27:40back-to-back with KD, and they won with him being washed post-injuries in 2022.
27:44Klay Thompson is marginal compared to the impact of Draymond and Steph Curry.
27:48They are the system.
27:49They're still the system now.
27:50They stick together this whole time.
27:52One's the offense, one's the defense.
27:53Just because there's good players coming in and out is fine.
27:55You got good players in 2004, you got two Hall of Famers coming in, and then you get
27:58crumbled, because it's not so easy to play with a lot of good players.
28:00You have to manage egos, manage touches, manage all this stuff.
28:03They manage to do it all the time.
28:04You know why?
28:04Because Steph Curry is the most impactful offensive player of his era who can play with
28:07anybody, and Draymond Green elevates everybody defensively.
28:10They are equipped to play with multiple people that are good, unlike your duo, who they got
28:14to get their buckets, and everybody else has a motherfucking watch.
28:16My duo still did something that your duo never did, and that is three-peat.
28:19And I got four.
28:19Three's more than...
28:20You care more about the number and back-to-back-to-back.
28:22I have more rings.
28:23But it is more impressive.
28:24Who do you think feels better at night?
28:25If somebody has four rings in their hands or three?
28:27They're all, thank God I didn't lose that one.
28:28The one in the three-peat, and I ain't gonna lie.
28:29That's ridiculous.
28:30That's ridiculous.
28:31Having another championship is clearly better.
28:33That's just stupid.
28:34That's absurd to think that three is better than four, and no matter what the context
28:37is.
28:38Isaac did have a good point about Steph being more influential.
28:41I do think you had something to go there, because Kobe, everybody in the league is wearing
28:44Kobe's.
28:45So there was a point there where you could have got there and went on that angle.
28:48But my vote goes to Isaac.
28:51Golden State Warriors.
28:52Golden State Warriors.
28:57I'm not gonna lie.
28:58He out-debated me.
28:59I think that just shows the point of this show.
29:02The point of this video is that this is about who's a better debater, because I'm pretty
29:06sure we all know that Shaq and Kobe are actually the better duo.
29:09But if you can out-talk a person, I mean, hey, you out-debated them.
29:13Our final round matchup, the number seven seed, Stefan Draymond, versus the number eight
29:17seed, Jokic and Murray.
29:19I really appreciate your duo.
29:20I think Nikola Jokic is one of the greatest offensive players of all time.
29:22In the running for GOAT, offensive player, Steph Curry's blocking him.
29:25I think Jamal Murray's in the running for one of the greatest sidekicks in modern NBA
29:28history.
29:29Draymond Green is blocking him.
29:30Your duo is in the running for one of the most complimentary duos of all time.
29:33My duo is blocking them because they do it offensively and defensively, not just offensively,
29:37while doing a lot of the same stuff offensively.
29:39You might end up being a really accomplished duo.
29:41Mine already is.
29:41You're chasing the GOATs I leave behind.
29:43I think one of the things you look for in great duos, especially greatest, is portability and
29:47how well they play together and how well they play with other people and how well
29:50other people play off of them.
29:51Currently, with just those two, those are the only all-NBA talents they've ever played
29:55with, with each other.
29:56They have currently led the greatest offense we've ever seen.
29:59They revolutionized offense together.
30:01And then in the NBA playoff, when they play versus the fiercest competition and the fiercest
30:05defenses, they have never lost when they've been on the court in less than seven games.
30:08I'm not finna let you pull off that greatest offense shit.
30:09I understand how modern offensive ratings work.
30:11It keeps getting better and better and better.
30:12Per their era, the 2017-2018 Warriors with my duo, we're still the better offense.
30:17That's not a duo.
30:18Well, Kevin Durant was the second best player of that team.
30:19Yeah, well, has he won before them or after them?
30:20No.
30:21It's about who played, it's how they play together.
30:22Kevin Durant was clearly the second best player and most important player in that team.
30:24Yeah, clearly, clearly, there's clearly that.
30:25He has never done anything outside of that.
30:27I'm not even going to attain the talking point.
30:28We can leave Kevin Durant in the past.
30:28Well, you brought up Kevin Durant.
30:29You want to shit on Kevin Durant for five minutes, we can do it.
30:31Let's do it after the camera.
30:31I don't have a reason to, but if you're going to acknowledge 2017-18, which you brought
30:35up, you need to acknowledge that Kevin Durant was clearly the best team.
30:38I don't need to acknowledge that because that's not true at all.
30:39But nevertheless, scalability, Steph Curry, most scalable star of all time, even more
30:43than Jokic, better off-ball player, while Jokic just did all-ball.
30:46So, one of the best interior scores ever, one of the best three-point shooters ever, one
30:49of the best mid-range shooters ever, a more scalable player.
30:51Obviously, the margins are close.
30:52It's obviously not true.
30:53And then a much better offensive rebounder, a much better screener.
30:55The margins are close, but Steph Curry gets it not there.
30:56And on top of that, if you're having a conversation with Jamal, who literally has outplayed
31:00Anthony Davis and LeBron James in a series, Jamal Murray, who's outplayed Jimmy Butler.
31:04And then got shut down by Jadon McDaniels the next day, while Rudy Gobert and
31:06Kapp put Jokic in towards the center.
31:08Down in seven?
31:08Oh, I forgot.
31:09When you lose in a game seven, scoring 35 points in 34-19 in seven, that means you got
31:15shut down.
31:15What about the game's lead up there?
31:16But I distinctly remember.
31:17What about the game's lead to that game?
31:18I distinctly remember Steph Curry with a three-one.
31:21Oh, now we got to get loud.
31:22Okay.
31:22Now we got to screen for five minutes.
31:24I distinctly remember a three-one lead.
31:27Let me quiet it down so the audience can remember this.
31:29I distinctly remember a three-one lead for Steph Curry versus LeBron James, where he got
31:34walked and sucked down the rest of that series.
31:36Hey, yo.
31:37Hey, yo.
31:37And I distinctly remember, I distinctly remember Draymond Green punching out people on the
31:43floor and getting suspended and losing in the biggest moment.
31:45I distinctly remember the fact that Steph Curry, unless he has universally the best help
31:50in NBA history, every single final run except for 2022, can't win.
31:55I distinctly remember that Nikola Jokic has never played next to another MVP player.
32:03I distinctly remember that whenever Jokic has a healthy roster around him, they go far
32:07and they win.
32:08The issue is injury.
32:09And on top of that, when your boy had a boy, he had a chance to win in 2019.
32:13And we remember, versus the Toronto Raptors with no Kevin Durant, no Boogie, and it was
32:17just Draymond and just Steph.
32:19And what happened?
32:19They got walked.
32:21Walked.
32:21Can I be toxic real quick?
32:32Hey, when there was no Klay Thompson, you didn't even make the playoff in your prime.
32:35In your prime.
32:37So I do remember that.
32:37They beat a 50-win team to win this ring, beat a bunch of bums, beat a bunch of 8
32:40-sees,
32:407-sees, yadda, yadda, yadda, not to win a ring.
32:42Hey, guess what?
32:432022 was individually a better ring than 2023.
32:45So that alone makes me have more accomplishments than you.
32:47By the way, just so you know, Jokic and Jamal Murray have never missed the playoffs in their
32:52peak in their career.
32:53Right, they go there and they get did by Rudy Gobert and Jay McDaniels.
32:55They get did by the 2020 Lakers.
32:57You literally missed the playoffs in a prime peak year with Steph and Dre.
33:01Nevertheless, I have four rings.
33:02You have one.
33:03That is not close.
33:04I'm the more complimentary duo because I have the best defender and the best offensive player.
33:06With Kevin Durant, with Klay Thompson, with Sean Livingston.
33:09We invented split action.
33:10We invented dribble handoffs.
33:12My guys have been doing it for a decade.
33:13Order, order, order in the court.
33:16We invented dribble handoffs.
33:17All right.
33:18Can we, do y'all want to see an extra 24 seconds for each candidate?
33:21I would love it.
33:22I would love it.
33:23Hey, listen, this is uninterrupted.
33:26Put that law down.
33:28Jamal Murray and Nicole Jokic are great.
33:29Everything they do great, Draymond Green and Steph Curry do as well.
33:32They also are amazing playing through a hub big man, are amazing playing off ball,
33:36double screening, letting Steph Curry be a screener, influencing offense with them two
33:39on the court.
33:40All of that matches.
33:41Defensively, Draymond Green also carries the game.
33:43Aside that, not only do you have players who don't do that, they are active negatives
33:46at points.
33:47You can talk about the downfalls of them in 2016, et cetera.
33:50You also have had negative showings.
33:51Jamal Murray has had multiple years where he was garbage between his amazing seasons
33:54in the playoffs.
33:55Everything you've done, I've done and I've won more.
33:56I've never been up 3-1 in the NBA Finals and lost with a healthier team.
34:00So I think the issue is you're running into that Steph Curry in his prime missed the
34:04playoffs, Draymond Green in his prime, missed the playoffs.
34:06And on top of that, unless you had all-time great help, you didn't win.
34:10And I think that's the biggest point here.
34:12Jamal Murray and Nikola Jokic have never played with another player of the caliber of Kevin
34:16Durant.
34:16And then on top of that, Andre Iguodala, I for sure know of that duel, he won Finals
34:21MVP in 2015 and you value that stuff.
34:23For the championship round, I want to let y'all know y'all delivered.
34:27I will go with Swiper.
34:28I'm going to go with the Warriors.
34:29I'm going with the Golden State Warriors.
34:35I think everybody did a really good job.
34:37I think, you know, being in these environments is really difficult.
34:40You know, when you got the pressure on you, you got the cameras on and you got to put together
34:43debate, the salient argument, and you don't know who you're going to be debating.
34:46It takes a lot of effort and a lot of time.
34:48I thought you did a great job.
34:49That was your best round that you've had so far.
34:51And I think that's what pressure does.
34:52Like, you know, you get pressure on you.
34:53Some people rise, some people fold.
34:55You rose.
34:56And so that was a great finish for me.
34:56I was surprised that you put Steph Curry and Draymond Green so low.
35:00Apparently, everyone thinks a lot less of Draymond Green than I do.
35:02I feel like this is a very clear-cut top duo of all time.
35:04I was hearing chatter from the other debaters.
35:06I should have picked Klay Thompson, which to me is crazy.
35:08But nevertheless, I'm glad to see the duo that deserves to get some representation.
35:12That's going to do it for this episode of The Goat Bracket.
35:14We will catch you next time right here on Clash.
35:17The Goat Bracket.
35:18The Goat Bracket.
35:22The Goat Bracket.
35:23The Goat Bracket.
35:25The Goat Bracket.
35:25The Goat Bracket.
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