- 12 hours ago
Dirty.Business.2026.S01E03
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00:03I'm not sure if I'm gonna come in really yeah it'd be fine because they're drowning
00:13or maybe you try it for a bit I'll go first
00:18good looking rough scaredy cat I'm not sure thanks you
00:51no prints nothing taken or disturbed
01:00no unfortunately the the blood sample wasn't big enough for the lab to get a full DNA read
01:07it's disappointing wow I really thought it was enough for a full sample apparently not
01:16what about the glove mark not enough resolution for them to do anything with
01:20you know I took photos of the house right after the break-in and nothing was touched no
01:29or they put everything back in its place which is what you would do if you're installing a
01:34listening device I've applied for warrants to do exactly that you're a copper serious crime
01:39squad covert surveillance unit counter corruption I'm innocent
01:45well I mean as you know we've done a couple of sweeps nothing
01:55no me neither so um you know there's not much more we can do
02:01okay
02:07oh
02:08oh
02:08oh
02:09oh
02:10oh
02:11oh
02:24oh
02:26No, no, no, no, no, no.
03:06you've worked in surveillance haven't you for years so telling me you can't actually see
03:12if they've got a new computer or not no i've done what i can to check but you just can't
03:19tell now
03:20you see there's this incognito spyware runs a keylogger in the background which means they
03:25can record every key you press every mouse click they can see the emails you write your messages
03:30your passwords etc everything but they build it so you don't know it's there what to the um what
03:37did the police say well an officer came out he took a sample of the blood there was some blood
03:43on the
03:43on the handle downstairs and he thought he could see a disposable glove mark in it which means that
03:49whoever did it wants to make sure they're untraceable he did think they could find a dna result and then
03:55nothing nothing happens what do you think this is anything they can find to discredit us something
04:03that would look good on the cover of the daily mail for example i mean i can't think of anything
04:09that
04:09you know i mean um well you know what it is what's that it's a free jazz if that gets
04:16out we're fucked
04:17oh fuck off but who would want to discredit us i don't know could be a burglar who just got
04:25scared
04:25and legged it yeah well or he could have just seen charlie's hawaiian cushions don't say that in front
04:31no joke i'm not going to do that i want to hang on to my balls you know the other
04:37day when this
04:38happened the first thing i did
04:42was pick up the phone to you yeah no i saw i did i did see it yeah you probably
04:46saw it i
04:47hung up just to yeah i i just think that what we need now is we need um
04:54we need a whistleblower don't we that's and and we need someone from inside the agency high up
05:00from through the top yeah eileen said that we must be making a difference did she yeah she did
05:08so come on let's um that's the point isn't it yeah we have no point doing this unless we make
05:13a
05:13difference no let's keep going let's keep going and let's find that fucking whistleblower right
05:18june 2019 sir james bevan environment agency dear sir james i'm writing to your office as i'm sure
05:27you will know where to direct the question october 2019 dear sir james i wrote to you to raise
05:34concerns about a serious integrity issue involving the agency dear sir james 34 days have now passed
05:41since i sent you evidence i've given up expecting a reply from you dear ashley i am in the seat
05:52of
05:52your email to sir james would you mind coming to our office and would the 19th suit
06:12is sir james not coming i'm afraid not no sir james wouldn't routinely attend meetings at this
06:18kind of level i'd hope to be here he's time paul he's aware of your work well uh well we're
06:25trying
06:25to find out um what you're going to do about the illegal uh sewage overflow abort the combined storm
06:32overflow yeah the combined storm overflow at burton has shown no detectable effects on the water quality
06:39the water quality is stable and not deteriorating i mean our data shows very clearly that we have the
06:44best quality water since the industrial revolution
06:49the water's turned brown yeah it's turned so brown that when it joins the thames at newbridge
06:55it makes the thames look like a swiss mountain stream the the water is brown in places but
07:02that's a natural phenomenon it's caused by geological fault geological fault yeah yeah but sorry a geological
07:10fault is millions of years old we remember when the water was clear no one remembers the good old days
07:16before the geological fault in the last 12 months since we installed sensors there's been no evidence
07:22of pollution that's because you've installed the monitors upstream from the sewage pipes now is that
07:28incompetence or an attempt to cover up a scandal no no the agency would never position a monitor to
07:33achieve a particular reading we are working extremely hard to transform the environment we've
07:37improved and protected something like i think it's 15 000 kilometers of river um site but you've had 92
07:45complaints from the general public about sewage pollution and that's just the wind rush i've
07:50actually got the breakdown here it's uh uh yeah yeah uh in uh well in 36 of those cases there
07:59was um
07:59no offense and in 39 there was insufficient evidence and in in six we were unable to identify the offender
08:11oh what do you mean you couldn't identify the offenders why can't you identify the offenders
08:15there's seven sewage works along the wind rush they're all run by thames water so i mean you say
08:20you've got insufficient evidence but we keep giving you the evidence all we ever do is give you the
08:24evidence and all we get back is it's under investigation and then nothing nothing nothing
08:31ever happens in in exceptional circumstances for example after heavy rain the sewage systems are allowed
08:38to overflow no no no no no you see that's not that's not the law the law is that in
08:43all normal
08:44climatic conditions including heavy rainfall the water companies have to treat the sewage they have
08:50to make it safe before they put it back into the river the law is a gray area no no
08:55it's not a gray
08:56area with respect it's the law it's all right um can i sorry yes thames is that their own data
09:04it shows they stopped treating sewage at north leach for for more than three months now they told us
09:13that their sensors had broken down but we think they're lying they're lying so why would they do that
09:23why would they lie to you
09:45we're potemkin regulators
09:51sorry the regulation isn't real the government want us to look like a regulator but they won't
09:57let us do our job okay when cameron and trust gutted the agency we went from regulating the industry
10:06to do in his bidding
10:09do you think we could take your number not just keep going
10:15this is going to be the first government in modern history that at the end of its
10:20parliamentary term has less regulation in place than there was at the beginning
10:25we've now identified those three thousand regulations that we're going to scrap
10:29let's reduce the amount and the burden of regulation strangled by red tape
10:33cut back uh the health and safety monster cut guidance by 80 percent and we reduce farm inspections
10:39by 34 000 every year regulations will none of my ministers could introduce a regulation
10:44unless they abolished one at the same time massively reduce the number of rules laws and regulations
10:50that frankly treat all of you like idiots
10:57so really it's about stripping out as much unnecessary regulation as possible and taking responsibility
11:05for climate change and saying what more can we do to get us to net zero as you know this
11:13is a passion
11:14project for sir james who feels that we can bring our car usage down by 70 percent yeah
11:24it's yeah so from next month we're going to be taking the bold decision to cut back decisively on our
11:32car leases
11:36yeah come on sorry just like to clarify what you you're going to get rid of our cars
11:44so it's about reducing the agency's carbon footprint just getting that yeah go ahead hannah
11:52the cars that we drive to the inspections in right yeah so so self-monitoring and and a more desk
12:00-based
12:01regulation is really it's really helping us move the needle on climate change
12:09but the room the remaining inspections yeah how do we get to those without a car yeah
12:19it's a great question it's a really great question and we'll take that forward to the next discussion
12:25meeting thanks hannah yeah lovely thanks everyone not easy news to break is it i mean it's
12:47anybody anybody okay could you tell me what the reactants are so if you move your head even
12:55slightly the vertigo gets more intense yeah and the attacks happening maybe twice a week about that
13:01yeah yeah the good news is that you don't have cancer we actually think it's meniere's
13:10it's a disease of the inner ear the main symptom is acute vertigo episodes
13:17vomiting tinnitus it's a pretty neat fit with your presentation
13:25they were dumping sewage in the water uh the last time before i got sick right uh you know that
13:34from
13:34the surface against sewage app okay
13:39might that be the causes are unclear it's post-viral this often starts with an ear infection
13:45you know that they're common in surfers yeah every surfer i know
13:51this is a chronic condition i'm afraid there's no cure
14:18there is no cure anything
14:19should we leave the table away just because
14:20just hold his back
14:25uh
14:49so by ending on-site inspections into categories three and four no or low impact pollution events
14:58and doubling down on the more serious category one and two incidents we think we can turn ourselves
15:06into a more effective fighting unit yeah so from today we are ending on-site inspections for cats
15:13three and four any questions well yeah um a category three incident can be two kilometers of sewage
15:26we want you to not inspect to not spend time on these incidents except that since the water
15:35companies have been self-reporting they almost always only report categories threes and fours
15:42so they're not actually reporting the serious incident and so if the water companies are
15:46only reporting threes and fours and we're no longer allowed to investigate so what exactly are we going
15:54to be doing i've told the government you get the regulation you pay for we no longer have the
16:00money to go on inspecting low-grade pollution events we need you to shut down these reports as
16:06unsubstantiated or to silently pass them and to not report them as pollution incidents is that clear
16:19yeah thank you thanks everyone good on with your day yeah
16:33we had to fuck fucking wankers how are you gonna get to fucking work fuck night horseback
16:50what time did he call you i passed 10 last night
16:53he said you couldn't miss it
17:08oh my god look at it
17:14come on get some shots and we'll call the agency on the way back
17:19oh my god
17:21oh my god
17:24oh my god
18:48Obviously, how else would I get in?
18:49Well, can I borrow your car at lunchtime?
18:53What for?
18:55Someone keeps calling up and complaining about the same incident.
18:59It's near the bridge at Hawk Rise, so I'm going to go and take a look.
19:04Okay.
19:05A bit of freelance investigation.
19:07A bit of freelance.
19:08And also, it needs to be off the books.
19:11And I need you to promise me not to tell Sophie.
19:15I can't tell Sophie.
19:16You can't tell Sophie?
19:17Within all the world, I can't tell Sophie anything.
19:19Okay.
19:20I can't tell Sophie.
19:29Okay.
19:29Okay.
19:32Okay.
19:34Okay.
19:36Okay.
19:38Okay.
19:42Okay.
19:43Okay.
19:46Okay.
19:48Okay.
19:49Hi.
19:50Hi.
19:50Is that, um, is that Justine?
19:53Hi, Justine.
19:55Um, it's, it's Hannah from the Environment Agency.
20:00Listen, it's about the, um, the pollution event at Hawk Rise.
20:04Um, it came through the system at a duration of 1.34 hours.
20:09And, and I'm here now, and it's, it's, it's still going.
20:16Yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm, yeah, I'm, I'm here now, yeah.
20:19The CSO's still discharging untreated sewage.
20:23I mean, there's, there's a section of the river that is covered over with dried sewage.
20:28I mean, these, these dead fish, you can, you can see them from the footpath.
20:31I mean, you're going to get more complaints.
20:34You need to sort this.
20:40Can you prepare and cook a simple meal unaided?
20:45Yeah, but not when I'm having an attack.
20:49Then I can't do anything.
20:51I can't, I can't move.
20:52Can you eat and drink unaided?
20:55Yeah, but, again, not when I'm having an attack.
20:59Um, and I've been getting the attacks, well, every few days for the past six months.
21:04But if, if you're not having one of your attacks, can you eat and drink unaided?
21:08Yeah, but...
21:09Yes or no is fine.
21:11Yes.
21:14Can you dress and undress unaided?
21:20It's the same answer.
21:22Moving on to the mobility section of this assessment.
21:25Can you plan and follow a journey unaided?
21:31Yeah, but not when I'm having an attack.
21:34Stand and move for 200 metres.
21:37Not when I'm having an attack.
21:40Well, you know, can you move around, walk for 200 metres?
21:43Of course I can, but not when I'm having an attack.
21:45OK.
21:46Thank you, Mr Santa.
21:47Your total score for the daily living part of the assessment is zero points.
21:52Your total score for the mobility section is zero points.
21:56When you're not having an attack, you're able to do all the tasks I asked you about.
22:00That's, that's the thing with my condition is that sometimes I can do these things and
22:05other times I can't and when I can't, I can't, I can't do anything.
22:09I can't award you a personal independence payment.
22:11I don't know what to do.
22:12If you need further guidance about how to appeal, you can use the web chat to get some help.
22:17If you cannot access the web chat, you can contact the benefits appeal helpline on 0300120...
22:34Hannah.
22:35Oh, shit.
22:35Sorry.
22:36Sorry, I didn't mean to scare you.
22:37It's all right.
22:37Um, do you have a second?
22:39Can I have a word?
22:40Of course.
22:41Yeah?
22:41OK.
22:42So I've just, I just got off the phone to Justine Wright-Phillips at the water company.
22:46Yeah.
22:47Yeah, she said, she said you called her.
22:49Yeah, I, yeah, I did.
22:52OK, she said you called her from the site.
22:55Well, I saw that it'd been logged on the system for the fifth time and people kept calling
23:00up complaining and nobody was doing anything about it, so I...
23:02But we don't have the revenue to be investigating Category 3.
23:08It's not a Category 3, Sophie.
23:11The river is dried over with excrement.
23:14You can see it from...
23:15Yeah, so that's, that's what I wanted to talk to you about.
23:17So Justine says that the dispersal rate in that area is really high.
23:21Is it?
23:22Yeah, she says, she says there's like a strong current and a high dispersal rate.
23:25But the overflow pipe has been discharging for over 36 hours and it is still going.
23:30All right, that's...
23:31The untreated...
23:31That is the water company's responsibility to report to us.
23:35You know this.
23:38OK?
23:39And Justine says that actually, really, the, um...
23:42Because of the high dispersal rate, the, the, the, it should come down to a Category 4.
23:48Be a Category 4?
23:49Yes.
23:50Right.
23:50Mm-hmm.
23:52So, no impact on the environment, no action needed?
23:57Yes.
23:59Mm-hmm.
24:04Oh, you want me to change it on this system?
24:05Could you?
24:06Could you?
24:07Yeah?
24:08OK.
24:09Thanks so much.
24:10That's great.
24:11Lovely.
24:16Wow.
24:20So, you see how well we're doing?
24:22Yeah, of course.
24:23Oh, are you joking?
24:24I'm not joking.
24:25You know SROIC?
24:28No, what's that?
24:30Strategic Review of Incident Charges, yeah?
24:32It's like what we charge the clients for permits and that.
24:35So, we don't have clients, Cheryl.
24:37We're an environment agency.
24:39OK, sorry.
24:39Yes, we don't have clients.
24:41But Sir James has put the prices up, yeah?
24:45And I'm talking, like, up, up.
24:47Big time.
24:49Well, he's charging the water companies more.
24:51Yep.
24:52Well, surely they've gone down to the government, like,
24:55lobbing them, going, my, J-game, the charges are taken down.
24:58No.
24:59Not a peep.
25:00Not a...
25:00Not a peep.
25:01Sorry, they're just paying it.
25:04We've basically had such a high revenue spike, yeah,
25:08that we are on our way to becoming a client-funded regulator.
25:15Sorry, wait, hold on one minute.
25:16This is going a bit...
25:17So, you're saying that the water companies
25:21are funding the environment agency.
25:24That's what you're...
25:25Really, you see the issues there.
25:27You can't be serious.
25:29A client-funded regulator.
25:34Amazing, isn't it?
25:34How can that even be a thing?
25:37It's a thing.
25:38Well, hold on, because literally,
25:40the other day, Sir James said
25:42that you get the regulation that you pay for.
25:44Yeah.
25:45That we haven't got the money
25:47to do the investigations that we used to do.
25:49Nobody's paying for them.
25:51OK.
25:51That's your area, isn't it?
25:53I mean...
25:54All I know is that
25:56we have got more cash than we've ever had before.
26:00Just making conversation.
26:05I've got the job.
26:06Postman?
26:07Mm-hmm.
26:08No?
26:08Yeah.
26:08Did you?
26:09Yeah.
26:09Oh, fuck.
26:11Yeah, really good timing.
26:14Uh-huh.
26:15Because I did two pregnancy tests this morning.
26:20What?
26:20And, yeah, I'm pregnant.
26:23What?
26:23Yeah, pregnant.
26:25No.
26:25Yeah, I sort of just had a funny feeling and then, yeah, did one test, two lines, and then I
26:34did another test and it said two lines as well, and I was like, fuck.
26:48I'm Susan Davey.
26:50I'm Susan Davey. I am the CEO of Southwest Water.
26:53That's basically the wet weather events.
26:55Storm.
26:55Overflow.
26:56Put a strain on our Victorian networks.
26:58Victorian sewage.
26:59And, unfortunately, we have a Victorian sewage system, which we have inherited, and that means things do go wrong.
27:08How do you say Victorian sewage network?
27:1012%.
27:1012? 12%?
27:13What's 12%?
27:1412% of the sewage system is Victorian.
27:17What do they tell you?
27:19They knew that the whole of the system was Victorian, so that meant that the investment would be so high
27:25that it'd be impossible to actually fix it all.
27:29Bollocks.
27:29Shall I tell you what stopped it?
27:32When privatization came in, they just stopped spending.
27:35After the war, they kept upgrading.
27:37Then after privatization came in, they just stopped.
27:41Not just Thames, all of them.
27:456% new plants is privatization.
27:486%?
27:496%.
27:49Is that all?
27:50You know, it'd be good if we could maybe come and visit one of the works.
27:54I don't know about that.
27:55Well, I'd have to see, lads, honestly, because even just doing this, I feel a bit nervous.
28:01Fucking London Stadium.
28:02That's not a proper stadium.
28:04Fucking massive.
28:05Upton Park.
28:05Now, that was a proper stadium, mate.
28:07London Stadium's too big.
28:09You fucking binoculars, do you know what I mean?
28:10Yeah.
28:11Sorry, Pete, did you want to see an EDM?
28:13Oh, yes, yes, that's right.
28:15Well, I remembered.
28:15So this is an event duration monitor.
28:19Now, we fitted one of these on every sewage pipe in England.
28:23In 2012, right, the coalition government, they ordered all the water companies to record
28:29how much time they spend dumping raw sewage.
28:32These little units, they measure how much poo goes into the river by hours.
28:36Management have been dragging their feet for eight years now.
28:40But we're finally getting most of it in now.
28:43And the agency, they've got to publish their numbers.
28:46They have to, by law.
28:47I mean, they're not going to like it, but tough shit.
28:52EDMs.
28:54Yes.
28:56So, we are finalizing plans for the statutory publication of the EDM numbers.
29:06As you know, there have been some technical delays, but it looks like they're almost ready.
29:13And, uh, they're going to come as a bit of a shock.
29:19Uh, the data's going to show that the water companies discharged raw sewage 400,000 times in 2020.
29:29That's 1,100 times a day for a total of 3.1 million hours.
29:40It's a bit of a shocker.
29:42Can I just say that, um, since operator self-monitoring, we've had to rely on the water companies to report
29:50back to us.
29:51Yeah, I think that the key here is that this doesn't get framed as a failure of regulation.
29:56That is, that is, that would be quite wrong.
30:00And, uh, and I think managing comms on this is going to be key.
30:03And we are working actively with the water companies to, uh, to, to, to bear down on the problem.
30:11Yeah.
30:11And, uh...
30:12But that's 1,100 criminal offences a day.
30:16Well, that's actually, that's debatable, because that depends on the terms of the permits and the circumstances around each spill.
30:22Yeah, and we know the legislation permits discharging after heavy rainfall, and so...
30:28No, no, it doesn't.
30:30Sorry, Hannah.
30:31The law doesn't say that you can just dump sewage after heavy rain.
30:35It says that in all normal, climatic and seasonal circumstances, the water companies have to treat the sewage, not just
30:43dump it.
30:44But it's not the agency's job to adjudicate legal matters.
30:47I mean, this is actually a matter for the courts.
30:49No, no, no, this is, this is our job.
30:52It's our job to enforce the law.
30:55Yeah.
30:56That's what we're here to do.
31:00What?
31:02Can you, um, you...
31:04Did you want to?
31:05No, no, you, you finish off here, Sophie.
31:11So we've identified the problem, and now we work on the problem.
31:13Yeah.
31:14Which is reframing and owning the narrative.
31:16Yeah, we, we, we don't want this to get misconstrued as some sort of failure on our part, because it
31:20just isn't.
31:21Thanks, that's what we're saying.
31:21Yeah, thanks.
31:22Thanks so much.
31:23Thanks.
31:24Cool.
31:26Lovely.
31:26Thanks, guys.
31:27Thanks so much.
31:28By, by the way, um, so, I've heard you're going to give evidence in Parliament.
31:34Yes.
31:35Yes.
31:35Amazing.
31:36Yeah, I think you're bad.
31:39What does that mean, thinking about it?
31:40He's, uh, he's nervous.
31:42No, no, no, I'm not nervous.
31:43He's nervous.
31:44No, it's not that I'm nervous.
31:46I, I want to do it.
31:47Yeah.
31:47It's just, it, it's difficult.
31:48Pete.
31:49Don't, don't worry about it.
31:50I'll, yeah.
31:51We're counting on you.
31:52We, we are really counting on you.
31:53And you can explain it in this scientific way.
31:55You're going to come across brilliantly.
31:57They're going to believe you, mate.
31:58Well, it, it, it's, it's not really as simple as that.
32:02The boys from Mogden called me earlier, right?
32:04Yeah.
32:05And they told me that they dumped two billion litres of sewage in the Thames over two days.
32:11Environment agency haven't got a Scooby.
32:13Did they send you the data?
32:14I've got the data, yeah.
32:15All right.
32:16Can you send that to us?
32:16I will send it to you.
32:18We're not going to let you down.
32:19Please, you can do this.
32:21Come on, Pete.
32:23You're a legend, mate.
32:24Come on.
32:35We now have the lowest number of serious pollution incidents from water companies that we have
32:42yet recorded.
32:44More water companies are now at the highest level of performance, what we call four-star
32:51performance.
32:52I mean, we now have the lowest number of serious pollution incidents from water companies that
32:57we have yet recorded.
33:28I'm an environment officer at the agency.
33:31I investigate sewage pollution.
33:36When I first joined, it wasn't a job to get rich on.
33:43I could see I was making a difference.
33:47Corporations want to make money.
33:49We make sure that they don't poison the rivers doing it.
33:52We could investigate, prosecute, whatever it took.
33:57But then they told the companies that they could regulate themselves.
34:03That's appraiser self-monitoring.
34:06Exactly.
34:07Then came the Cameron cuts, then the trust cuts.
34:12They laid off investigators, slashed prosecutions.
34:16I mean, they even took our cars off of us so we couldn't visit pollution sites.
34:19So all these cuts meant you couldn't do your job properly?
34:23That's not it.
34:27In 2021, Sir James hiked the prices the water companies paid for their permits.
34:33It was called charge-funded regulation.
34:36We get 96 million from the government.
34:39We are now pulling in 411 million from charges.
34:45All these cuts, they're just a smokescreen.
34:48We're swimming in cash.
34:52I am doing this because I know that it is wrong.
34:55And it has ruined my whole working life.
35:02Good luck.
35:16Right.
35:30The environment agency chiefs secretly held a series of private dinners with water companies.
35:49at the Royal Automobile Club in central London.
35:53Documents released under the Freedom of Information Act showed the meetings were held
35:57to discuss how to quell public anger over sewage spills.
36:01As the sewage scandal deepens, environment agency CEO Sir James Bevan has been called
36:07to give evidence to a parliamentary committee.
36:09Well, we need to talk about what we say in public and the responsibilities we have.
36:15You have a duty not to openly criticise or discredit the organisation in the media or on social media.
36:33If your comments inside or outside work impact on the agency's reputation by making derogatory comments
36:41about the organisation, or your managers, or you make comments that bring the organisation into disrepute,
36:48you may be subject to disciplinary action, and in more serious cases, dismissal.
36:59Give me one of my friends.
37:00Give me one of my friends.
37:08Thank you, sir.
37:08Your friends
37:09Work's one of the works, one of the fire page, and said that over the last...
37:12Over the last ten years...
37:14I don't think I want to do this.
37:16You'll be fine.
37:17Need the toilet?
37:20I'm all right.
37:21I need a bloody toilet.
37:23Do you want a pie?
37:24What does that mean?
37:28Well, um, my garden is a, uh, an island which the Windrush, um, wraps around.
37:38I've watched it closely for 18 years, and I watched the water turn brown.
37:45I led a team of scientists using a machine learning analysis of two sewage treatment works run by Thames Water.
37:54One of those works, the Environment Agency, said over 10 years that only two pollution incidents had been reported.
38:03Our, uh, machine learning analysis, uh, it, it showed hundreds of illegal spills.
38:14Uh, more than, than 300 lasted 24 hours.
38:18And some, uh, longer than 10 days.
38:23And some for a month.
38:25Have you shown this evidence to the Environment Agency?
38:29Uh, well, yeah, I've shown the evidence, like, many times.
38:32Uh, what usually happens is that they, uh, they say that, uh, they show a sign of interest, but then
38:40nothing happens.
38:43Well, we work very closely with Professor Hammond of, uh, Windrush Against Sewage Pollution.
38:51We have a regular and very fruitful dialogue with him.
38:55Um, you worked closely with Professor Hammond.
38:59Uh, he and Ashley Smith sent you at least 13 emails detailing evidence of illegal sewage dumping.
39:08He published five evidence reports documenting water company criminality, all of which were sent to you or your senior colleagues.
39:17They invited you to come and look at the river in 2019.
39:22And the following year sent you an email with the heading, Environment Agency Complicit in Lawbreaking.
39:36They never heard back.
39:38You never once replied in five years.
39:43How did you manage to work so closely with Professor Hammond when you never once spoke to him?
39:48At the Thames Water Mogden Treatment Works, there was a spill of 240 Olympic swimming pools of sewage in a
40:00single day.
40:01The existing monitoring failed to pick that up.
40:05Now, why was that?
40:06There will always be times when, uh, something happens, usually accidentally.
40:12But if we find that a water company has breached its permit, we will take appropriate action.
40:20Does appropriate action include prosecuting water company executives?
40:25Prosecution is a very high bar, but, uh...
40:29Where we think that's appropriate, we wouldn't hesitate.
40:33Did you prosecute in this case?
40:35No.
40:36Have you ever prosecuted any water company executives?
40:40No, but if we thought the evidence warranted it, we wouldn't hesitate.
40:48Last year, you told this committee that you became aware of sewage dumping in May 2021.
40:54Yes.
40:55But three weeks after that, you told the committee that the water companies were improving,
40:59and that more of them were getting four out of four stars.
41:05Why were you telling the committee that the water companies were doing a four-star job?
41:11Well, you've quoted everything I said.
41:16I think I stand by everything I said.
41:20I think you'll find them mutually consistent.
41:25The agency's job is to make sure the water companies obey the criminal law, but it doesn't do it,
41:33and the water companies do whatever they want.
41:35The alleged crimes of their directors are never prosecuted.
41:41They've built criminality into their business models because pollution is highly profitable and repeat offending has no consequences.
41:51Therefore, in the light of the remarkable absence of any counter-corruption measures,
41:57we demand an investigation into the environment agency.
42:04The key test for me on regulation.
42:06Less regulation.
42:08Is it something that enables the builders, not the blockers?
42:11Cut guidance by 80%.
42:12We've also got to look at regulation.
42:15Regulations will go.
42:16And where it is needlessly holding back the investment.
42:19Reduce the amount and the burden of regulation.
42:22Rip up the bureaucracy that blocks investment.
42:24Northumbria and water recorded 30.1 spills per overflow over the course of 2023.
42:30280,000 hours and change in total.
42:36The chief executive, Heidi Mottram, received a bonus of £234,000 that year.
42:44Why did you take football tickets from the parent company?
42:48Well, I didn't.
42:50OK.
42:51C.K. Hutchins Holdings owns 75% of Chung Kong Infrastructure Holdings, the owner of Northumbria and Water.
42:57And you declared £2,000 in football tickets and hospitality.
43:01On that occasion, there was nobody from a water company that was involved in offering those tickets.
43:08There was nobody from a water company at that event.
43:10Well, I wouldn't have known that.
43:12They weren't present.
43:13Why didn't you know? You should have known that.
43:14You said that these sort of people should potentially be in the dock if they have been found to break
43:19the rules.
43:19You took £2,000 in tickets and hospitality for a football match from bosses linked to that company that polluted
43:26that water.
43:27Why should people in Northumbria think that you're fit for your job?
43:31Well, I certainly wouldn't have known that. And judge me by what I did.
43:33Why not?
43:33Judge me by what I did.
43:34No, no. That is what you did.
43:48Environment Minister Steve Reid is pursuing legal action against a group of anglers trying to restore the ecosystem of their
43:56local river.
44:04Concerns have been raised about the number of leading labour figures with links to lobbying firms working for water companies.
44:10Among the invited guests at the government's international investment summit was Macquarie Bank.
44:15Described as the vampire kangaroo by critics, Macquarie presided over the near collapse of Thames Water, leaving it £10 billion
44:24in debt after having illegally dumped billions of litres of raw sewage.
44:47Reuben?
44:55I know I can't be left alone with her.
45:02Privatised water is a better deal than nationalised water.
45:06Come on, Flutie, get out!
45:07That the water privatisation, I believe, will go very successfully indeed.
45:12That will go very successfully indeed.
45:15And perhaps there will be a better wait and see so that we can pontificate in the light of the
45:20fact.
45:21How did it come to this?
45:25How did it happen that England is the only place in the whole world whose water system is wholly privatised?
45:39That our seas and our rivers are full of shite?
45:45I just feel like we're trying to bring down England's biggest organised crime syndicate.
45:53I mean, they're not the mafia, these water companies.
45:57They're not a drugs cartel, but they do dump sewage a thousand times a day.
46:03And almost all of those are illegal.
46:07And the cash they've accumulated, £145 billion since privatisation.
46:15And they've got that because they seem to have built criminality into their business models.
46:22So they are like an organised crime syndicate.
46:27And the CEOs and the owners are like crime bosses.
46:33I mean, they don't murder people, obviously.
46:36They're not assassins.
46:40But me and Peter are sitting here, waiting for these crime lords to put things right.
46:49And if we leave them to their own devices, they never will.
46:56They never will.
46:59We've put the things that we own and care about together,
47:05we've put them into the hands of financial speculators,
47:08whose job it is, is just to make money.
47:12We need to put the people who care in charge.
47:45We need to put the people who care in charge.
47:59We need to put the people who care in charge.
48:00We need to put the people who care in charge.
48:00And if we leave them, why are they being carried by themselves?
48:01It's just to make money, haven't we?
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