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00:00O público?
00:30To watch the Dortmund game, but it was on Prime apparently, so I didn't have the right thing. So I
00:36ended up watching Madrid and Benfica and I was really intrigued by the game. So I saw it happen live
00:47and then there's a couple of different components to this story.
00:51First, there's what happens on the pitch. Second, there's what's happening with the fans as well. Third, there's what happens
00:59after the game. And for me, in those three things, there's some clear separations we need to make.
01:05So what happens on the pitch for me, you have Vinny Jr. who, when you watch the action itself, his
01:11reaction cannot be faked. You can see it. His reaction is an emotional reaction. I don't see any benefit for
01:18him to go to the referee and put all this misery on his shoulders.
01:23There is absolutely no reason for Vinny Jr. to go and do this. And he does it. And when he
01:28does it, I think in his mind, he's doing it more because it's the right thing to do in that
01:33moment.
01:34So he goes and does it. And next to him, you have Kylian Mbappe, who normally always stays quite diplomatic
01:42and on every side. And Kylian Mbappe is really clear about what he heard and what he saw.
01:47And he's even more clear after the game, when he speaks about it. So all of this happens. But then,
01:52of course, you have a player who's hiding what he's saying in his shirt.
01:58And on the end, you have this side of it, which I think is a little bit OK. You have
02:05a player who's complaining. You have a player who says he didn't do it.
02:08And I think unless the player himself comes forward, it's difficult. It's a difficult case. So I understand this.
02:15But then in the background, you see in the stadium, there are people doing monkey signs. It's happening in the
02:23stadium as well.
02:24It's happening. You can see it. It's in the video. So it happens. You have on one side the altercation
02:31between the players.
02:31You have on the other side what happens in the stadium as well. And then for me, even worse.
02:40And I'm clear in what I say is what happens after the game. So after the game, you have the
02:46leader of an organization, Jose Mourinho, who uses basically...
02:56who attacks the character of Vinicius Jr. by bringing in the type of celebration to discredit what Vinicius is doing
03:04in this moment.
03:05And for me, in terms of leadership, it's a huge mistake. And it's something that we should not accept.
03:11So I'm very clear on that. On top of it, he mentions the name of Eusebio.
03:17To say that Benfica cannot be racist because the best player in the history of Benfica is Eusebio.
03:23You know what black players had to go through in the 1960s?
03:27Was he there to travel with Eusebio every away game when he went to every place in Europe?
03:32Probably at the time, because my dad is a black person from the 1960s also who made his way.
03:36Probably at the time, the only option they had is to be quiet and to say nothing and to be
03:41above it
03:42and to be 10 times better, to get a little bit of credit and people say, actually, he's good.
03:47That's Eusebio's life, probably.
03:50And today, to use his name to make a point about Vinicius Jr.,
03:56who's actually finally in a situation where he can say something about it.
04:00There's a lot of players who play in different leagues still in Europe who don't have a voice.
04:05There's players today in Hungary, in Bulgaria, in Serbia.
04:08If something happens to them and they are black players, they have zero chance to have any kind of support.
04:14Vinicius Jr. at least is in a situation where a lot of people have made it possible for him to
04:23take this moment
04:26and to protest in this moment.
04:29You know, and then I'm thinking how it is that you can, so I'm not, I'm not, it's a difficult
04:37thing for me to speak about
04:38because, to be honest, in many ways, and I say it very honestly, I don't actually fit in what I
04:43see today in the world
04:45that is happening in the world.
04:46Me, personally, I don't see my place in a lot of the things that are happening in today's world.
04:50I really don't.
04:52So I don't want to be a part of one group.
04:55I don't want to be a part of the other group.
04:57But if I see the situation with the player, I would like to see a situation where my dream is
05:05that at the end of the situation,
05:08if it is true that the player from Benfica has said something as bad as what he said,
05:14I would love a situation where there's still a room where somebody can apologize and say,
05:20I'm sorry, I made a mistake.
05:22And this has an impact on the sentence as well.
05:25So the sentence should be A or B.
05:27But if you admit that you've made a mistake, there should be an opportunity as well to say that,
05:33hey, nobody's perfect.
05:35This is also a good step, you know.
05:37But we are taking away all these options because we are creating left or right and black and white,
05:42and you have to be on one side or on the other side.
05:45And actually you need, the one thing you can't do is punish someone unfairly.
05:51And the one thing you can't do is dismiss a person and attack the character of a person who's complaining
06:00about something he experienced
06:03and something that must be very painful to that person.
06:07So there's something that needs to happen.
06:11But, but, but, but, but, and I'm, I'm just thinking, I'm sorry, I'm going on this,
06:15but I'm just thinking, you know, when, when Jose Mourinho is doing the knee slide at Old Trafford,
06:19when he goes to, because he attacked the celebration of Vini Junior,
06:23when he goes to the fans in the semi-final Inter Milan against Barcelona,
06:27and he goes in front of the Barcelona fans and does the celebration,
06:31when he plays against Sevilla with AS Roma,
06:33and in that moment he's fighting with the referees,
06:36and the referees have to go under protection, leave the country under protection after that game.
06:41In that moment, if someone was racist to Mourinho,
06:45I would have hoped that all of us would say, stop.
06:48It doesn't matter his celebration.
06:50Let's listen to what he has to say.
06:53And let's, let's, let's defend some, some simple things, some core things.
07:00So, but again, even in that sense, I try to be, I like to give context.
07:07So, I have to still say that I know so many players,
07:13and I'm thinking about the situation, who have gone through it,
07:17and it's important to, I mean, it's happened to Etor, to Samuel Etor,
07:24it's happened to, to Mario Balotelli so many times.
07:28Okay, so it was their celebration as well?
07:30Okay, maybe they had some, there were some characters with personality.
07:35What if it happens to Patrick Vieira?
07:38What if it happens to, it happened to me.
07:41You know, 20 years ago, I was in Sevilla.
07:43And then we're going to say, oh, it was 20 years ago.
07:45Okay, I was in, Betty Sevilla, I was there.
07:48We checked Teote.
07:49Check Teote is a player, the player from Newcastle,
07:51who died with a heart attack when he went to China.
07:53An unbelievable person, like a heart of gold.
07:57Both of us were 18, 19, we go to this game,
08:00and you have the Betty Sevilla fans going on the fences,
08:05singing Kukuk's Clan, doing monkey chants,
08:08going on the fences like monkeys.
08:10And we played a game.
08:11I was happy to score a goal in that game as well because of this.
08:15And it happened back then.
08:17So, was it my celebration as well?
08:20Was it, what did I do?
08:21You know, like, and at the same time, I have to note something.
08:25It was also one of the most beautiful moments in my career
08:28because the Betty Sevilla fans of the general stadium
08:33started to boo against the ultras from Sevilla, from Bettis.
08:39So, you had a fight within the stadium of fans who were not happy
08:44that the ultras from Bettis Sevillas were doing these things,
08:48who were protesting.
08:50And I found this beautiful because I said,
08:52okay, you know the world is not perfect.
08:54You have so many things, so many situations,
08:57but at least you have people from the same club fighting
08:59because they don't accept this.
09:01You know, so it was also a moment.
09:03But then you fast forward, and I'm a coach now, not so long ago.
09:07And I told you this story not so long ago.
09:09I go to Club Bruges, and I played for the national team.
09:12I was the captain for the national team.
09:16And me and my staff, we get called brown monkeys.
09:19And so on.
09:21And after I complained, I see how all of these politics happen again
09:25to kill the story.
09:27So no consequences, no nothing.
09:29And I have a voice.
09:31What do you think for the people without a voice?
09:34The problem is not necessarily the incident.
09:37And the problem is how, after that, everything gets put in motion
09:41to basically sort of, I don't think, I don't, I'm sorry,
09:51I'm going because I'm thinking about this as well.
09:54But so what you see and what you feel when you grow up with these issues
10:03is that somehow, somewhere down the line, this translates into maybe
10:09lack of opportunity.
10:11Because what happens is that you get pushed further and further away.
10:16You get branded more and more into one way.
10:18And actually, what needs to be done to grow closer together takes a lot of time,
10:23takes a lot of effort.
10:24But what happens is exactly the contrary.
10:26You get put into one, you get pigeonholed into one group,
10:29and the other one gets pigeonholed into the other group,
10:31and you just grow further apart.
10:33And so my thought about this is, and now I'm going to finish on this,
10:36because you've opened up something for me here.
10:39But I'm going to finish on this.
10:42In the end, I'm not saying go left and kill or go right and kill.
10:49That's not what I'm saying.
10:50Deep down, I know I've met 100 people who worked with Jose Mourinho.
10:56I've never heard a person say anything bad about Jose.
11:00All the players who played with him, they love him.
11:03So I understand the person he is.
11:05I understand he's fighting for his team, he's fighting for his club,
11:08and he's made that decision.
11:10And you cannot be a bad person
11:13and have all the ex-players you've had talk so positively about you.
11:19So I know he's a good person.
11:20I don't need to judge him as a person, but I know what I've heard.
11:24And I understand maybe what he's done, but he's made a mistake.
11:31And it's something that hopefully in the future won't happen like this again,
11:38and that we can move forward and grow.
11:42And hopefully, yeah, I mean, look at the things that we can do together
11:49rather than the things that always constantly separate us.
11:53Thank you very much.
11:55Thank you.
11:57Thank you, Vinny.
12:20Okay.
12:20Thank you, Vinny.
12:20Thank you, Vinny.
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