- 12 hours ago
Seth and Sean discuss potential circumstances that could actually lead to the Texans entertaining trade offers for CJ Stroud.
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00:00You texted me this yesterday, and I think this is a very pragmatic thing to do, you know, because, well,
00:06C.J. Stroud and the, you know, the Todd McShays and the Albert Breers of the world, Ryan Fitzpatrick, I'll
00:12throw him in there, saying that, hey, teams should be or might be, could call the Texans off season and
00:19just see if by chance they would listen to trade offers for C.J. Stroud.
00:25And it turned into, as you would expect, some irresponsible headlines from people saying that there were trade rumors and
00:31the Texans were looking to trade C.J. Stroud.
00:33Nothing of the sort, right?
00:34Right, there's really nothing of the sort at all as of yet, but that doesn't mean that it's impossible that
00:41there won't be discussions at some point.
00:43And, yeah, in doing our due diligence, I, you know, and I did a YouTube video yesterday where I flat
00:49out said I think there's a, there's close to a 0% chance of the Texans trading C.J.
00:54for multiple reasons.
00:55Even if they're not, even if they're not 100% sure about C.J. Stroud, it's very, very, very unlikely
01:00that they move on from him this year.
01:02The question is really, do they offer him an extension?
01:05How exactly is all that handled?
01:07But he's almost definitely going to be the quarterback this year unless, yeah, unless dot, dot, dot, what, right?
01:14Like, why am I so sure of this 0% or 1% probability of C.J. Stroud getting traded?
01:20So this is the show, Payne and Pendergast, that is courageous enough to tackle the subject, two subjects.
01:26One, Tony Clark's extramarital affair, two, two, what circumstances could unfold that would lead to C.J., real C.J.
01:41Stroud trade rumors, real substantive talks.
01:44We're also the ones that have the guts to talk about Tony, Tony Gonzalez's extramarital affair.
01:53Well, and the lighting on fire, yeah.
01:56Yeah, and the lighting on fire.
01:57Not the athlete, Tony Gonzalez.
01:59No, no, no.
01:59But somebody else, yeah.
02:00We're courageous enough to read it off of the trending topics on the Chronicle, for sure, yeah.
02:04So, okay, the biggest thing, if the Texans really wanted to move on from C.J. Stroud, I don't think
02:09it's going to be strictly football related.
02:11I think it would have to be a combination of, okay, we've got some reservations about him and maybe the
02:17way he played this year and especially in the playoffs,
02:19but there's got to be a little lanyard on top of that.
02:23It's either got to be David Mulligetta is just hell-bent on him getting a record-breaking contract this offseason
02:31and that they're going to be agitated if he doesn't.
02:33I think that would be perhaps the biggest one to where the Texans might say, all right, well, we don't
02:38need this crap in our lives.
02:39Yeah, and that's interesting.
02:40And so what would that look like from Mulligetta's side?
02:44You know, what is the case?
02:46To be clear, I think that's unlikely as well.
02:48I think these are all unlikely.
02:49Yeah, I think we've acknowledged that.
02:51These are all unlikely, but not 0% chance.
02:55So what would that, what's the case that Mulligetta makes if he were to do that?
03:01We're not saying he's done that or he's going to do it, but if he were to do it, what
03:05does that look like?
03:06Because I think I know my strategy would be to point to the guys who have gotten these big extensions.
03:11And the first three years of their careers versus the first three years of CJ's career.
03:16And I know everybody's upset about how it ended this year, but the fact of the matter is CJ has
03:20had, by NFL standards, a pretty nice first three years of his career.
03:25It's better than...
03:27And it feels right now.
03:29Right.
03:29It's better than Trevor Lawrence's was when he got his contract.
03:32In a lot of respects, CJ's career is still better looking than Trevor Lawrence's sum total of his career, including
03:38this season.
03:39Yep, yep.
03:39But Trevor, that doesn't...
03:41Trevor Lawrence's stats this year, it's a tale of two halves of the season.
03:44Sure.
03:44He's a lot better in the second half.
03:45But that's the argument is the guys like...
03:48You know, Tua, it was after his fourth year, was it not?
03:50It was.
03:51It was an extra year for him.
03:52Yeah, but it was with all those concussion concerns and issues.
03:55But Trevor Lawrence is the big one, I think.
03:58And this is where...
04:00I throw Kyler Murray in there, too.
04:02Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
04:03Kyler Murray.
04:03Okay.
04:04So this is the thing.
04:05I don't think...
04:07You know, to pull a Kyler Murray, to basically say, nope, I'm going to kind of be a...
04:13I'm going to be pouty about this, unless it happens.
04:17Yeah.
04:17And do all of the things that kids do these days.
04:19Unfollow the team on social media.
04:22Have your weird agent...
04:23Remember, Kyler Murray's got a weird agent.
04:25That guy's a jackass.
04:26Who was very public about...
04:28Yeah.
04:29...about agitating for a contract.
04:31Right.
04:31And he made fun of the fonts on his post that he made on Twitter.
04:34Yeah, it was like a 13-year-old had written this message that he delivered to everybody.
04:39And then, not to mention the fact that the Cardinals are just kind of a messed up organization
04:43to begin with.
04:44So I don't think that...
04:45I don't think CJ's the type of guy that's going to go try and make it...
04:50Make it even...
04:51Make it uncomfortable for himself in trying to get something like that.
04:55I would agree.
04:55I think this is...
04:56If they come to an extension, I would be really, really surprised if it was with any kind of
05:01heavy-handed negotiating tactics by Mulligetta and CJ Stroud.
05:05Because there's...
05:06Look, if you want to talk about guys that just don't give a damn and will go to places that
05:10other people don't want to go to to get their contract...
05:12James Harden is willing to do stuff that most human beings and professional athletes are
05:19not willing to do in terms of just being the villain.
05:22And I think CJ, to his credit, doesn't have that in his bag.
05:25I don't think it's necessarily an awesome personality trait or anything to be willing
05:32to just do whatever it takes to get that new contract.
05:35And I don't...
05:36So I don't think CJ has it in him in a good way.
05:39I'm saying this in a positive way.
05:41Yeah.
05:41To just basically hold the organization ransom.
05:45Yeah.
05:46So that's...
05:47Hostage.
05:47So that's...
05:48Yeah.
05:48So that's number one.
05:50What are the other scenarios that you think if we started to see trade rumors?
05:55Now, Joe Burrow...
05:57I didn't...
05:57Previously, I wouldn't have known if Joe Burrow had it in him to just pit himself against
06:01the organization.
06:01But Cincinnati does things to a man.
06:03Sean, you spend enough time in that organization, and it just starts to wear on you.
06:09It's like in...
06:10I know not as many people have watched House of the Dragon as Game of Thrones, but there's
06:14a castle there in House of the Dragon, Harrenhal.
06:16Okay.
06:17It's also in Game of Thrones.
06:18It is in Game of Thrones, too.
06:18Yeah, but...
06:19So one of the characters, Damon, goes to spend some time in Harrenhal.
06:22Okay.
06:23And it basically drives him bat bleep crazy.
06:25Harrenhal's messed up, right?
06:26Yeah, that's what Cincinnati is.
06:28Yeah, they're Harrenhal.
06:29It's a haunted mansion that does weird things to a man.
06:32And Joe Burrow is ready to pit himself against the organization, potentially.
06:35So then it becomes, all right, would somehow the Bengals...
06:40What kind of a deal would the Bengals work out with the Texans on a swap for Joe Burrow
06:46for C.J. Stroud?
06:47Okay.
06:48And I just don't think...
06:51I don't think the Bengals could find a quarterback worth trading for that's not going to just
06:57sabotage that trade somehow.
06:59Right.
06:59Like, CJ doesn't have a no-trade clause, but he would have to...
07:02The Bengals...
07:03Even the Bengals aren't dumb enough to trade for a quarterback that really doesn't want
07:07to be there.
07:07What doesn't want to be there is up for an extension and has David Mulligetta as his agent.
07:11Yeah.
07:12Like, the Mulligetta...
07:13Right, Mulligetta is going to do everything he can to throw it...
07:15Yeah.
07:16For all the things you and I just talked about in the first bullet point of this whole discussion
07:19here...
07:20Yeah.
07:20...about Mulligetta and what he could potentially do...
07:23I don't know how he's going to, but he could...
07:24Whatever that would be, it would get turned up two notches for the Bengals.
07:28And trying to keep CJ out of Cincinnati.
07:31Houston's not a dysfunctional organization.
07:33Right.
07:34Cincinnati is a dysfunctional organization.
07:36Right.
07:36Now, you know, three or four years ago, it might be...
07:39It would have made more sense.
07:41Yeah.
07:42I mean, Deshaun Watson tried to say no to the Cleveland Browns, but then he just threw a...
07:46Money whipped him.
07:47...a boatload more money at him than anybody else was throwing at him.
07:50And all of a sudden, it was the perfect place for him.
07:52Yeah, yeah, yeah.
07:55So, what if this scenario, what if somebody makes a godfather offer to the Texans?
08:00They make a Deshaun Watson-type offer.
08:02What was the Deshaun Watson compensation?
08:04Three first-round picks and four other picks.
08:07Yeah.
08:07Like, a couple of thirds, maybe a fourth, something else.
08:09And the Texans traded Deshaun and a sixth.
08:12I love how they always throw in, like, do they just attach, like, a day-three pick just
08:16to make it look, like, a little more even or whatever?
08:18Well, I think a lot of that is just rounding out the draft, the...
08:21The numbers.
08:21The points on the Jimmy Johnson scale.
08:23That makes sense.
08:24Yeah.
08:24That makes sense.
08:25That's how they kind of...
08:25That's their currency, and they can kind of just throw those late-round picks in there.
08:28That makes sense.
08:29To make it all match up.
08:30So, um...
08:31I think I know what your answer's going to be to the godfather offer.
08:34I think that's...
08:35We talked about this yesterday, and a lot of people have made this point.
08:37This isn't a Seth Payne original.
08:39When other teams are willing to pay three first-round picks for your quarterback...
08:43That's it.
08:43You've got to give a real hard, long look at yourself and say, wait a second.
08:48All right.
08:48What am I missing here?
08:49Who is the idiot in the room here?
08:51Is it...
08:52All right.
08:53Is the team...
08:54Is it a really, really stupid team?
08:56Right.
08:56Because maybe they're just dumb.
08:57Yeah.
08:58Or is it I that have maybe undervalued my asset?
09:01Right, right, right.
09:03Am I a little too close to the situation?
09:04Do I need to take a step back and look at this thing a little bit?
09:07I think that it's...
09:08And this is, again, where trading C.J. Stroud doesn't make any sense, including based on just
09:12everything right up until the playoffs this year.
09:15And I'm not going to make any excuses for his playoff performance.
09:18I will make some excuses for why C.J.'s numbers weren't better this year.
09:23And part of it is that the biggest thing is that he made...
09:27There were a lot of people that thought the offensive line had improved more than it actually
09:32had.
09:32Yeah.
09:33Because C.J. wasn't getting sacked as much.
09:35Because, you know, because the pressure rate wasn't as high or anything.
09:38A lot of that was simply because C.J. Stroud was operating better.
09:42Yeah.
09:42And he was getting rid of the ball and doing everything he had to do when he knows he's
09:46playing behind a haphazard offensive line and a non-existent rush attack.
09:50He did a good job of that.
09:52And because you've got a good defense on the other side, you can win a lot of football games
09:56doing that.
09:56Yeah.
09:57So that's...
09:58And I'm not saying that...
09:59No, yeah, he was actually the best quarterback in the league.
10:01I'm not saying that at all.
10:02You get to the playoffs, it's a whole different deal.
10:05Yeah.
10:05But I think that Casario, once you get past whatever emotions you have immediately after
10:11the playoffs, and once you sit down and try to assess, all right, what do we have with
10:16C.J.?
10:16What have we seen over the last few years?
10:19What do we look at when we look at quarterback development in the past?
10:23Think about guys like Eli Manning or Sam Darnold or perhaps Baker Mayfield.
10:29You know, he's not as great an example right now as he was early in the season.
10:32But why are we in such a rush?
10:36If we're thinking about getting rid of C.J. or moving on from C.J., why are we in such
10:41a rush when we don't have any pressure from a contract standpoint?
10:46No.
10:46We don't have the draft capital in a year where it's not a great quarterback draft?
10:50All of these other things, like why on earth would we move on from him right now?
10:54Well...
10:55It just doesn't make any sense.
10:56I would take it a step further, that last point that you made about the quarterback
10:59draft, and just say it's not a good quarterback solution market out there, period, with not
11:05just the draft where it's for Fernando Mendoza and then this major drop-off.
11:10There's not a lot of good solutions among the veterans that are out there.
11:13What are you going to trade for?
11:14Do you feel better about Kyler Murray or Tua Tunga-Vailoa as your quarterback at whatever
11:19price they're going to be?
11:20That's the thing.
11:20I don't even want to discount the potential upside for those guys.
11:23Those guys might be in that boat of, wow, you're going to write him off after three
11:26or four years.
11:27They might be like Sam Darnold.
11:29Right, right, right.
11:31With Kyler Murray, I mean, I still, I'll always have the concerns about his size and how he's
11:36going to overcome it.
11:37Yeah.
11:37And if you don't pair that with like a dogged, ridiculously obsessive work ethic, it's hard
11:43for those smaller guys to figure it out and become that guy.
11:46Uh, and no matter how, you know, no matter how impressive their highlight reel is.
11:52Yep.
11:52So I, yeah, I just, there's CJ has shown enough of his upside as like, as a, as a genuine
11:58NFL
11:59pocket passer.
12:00I think my biggest concern with him is more just again, his surroundings.
12:03And then also whether the concussion did affect him in the way he operates long-term or, or the
12:09prospect of more concussions to come in the future.
12:11Well, I'll just, I'll get very basic with this.
12:13He's not had a good road game in the post season in his career.
12:16And he's played in four of them.
12:17Yeah.
12:18He's had four mediocre to bad games on the road in the playoffs.
12:22Eventually you're going to need to win a road game.
12:24And he, what he did against Pittsburgh, but he was horrible in that game.
12:27The one thing, the chiefs game, I thought he did some really good things when he didn't
12:30have any receivers out there really.
12:32And, and they just, the fourth quarter, everything fell apart because the, the, the protection
12:38collapse and everything.
12:39Yeah.
12:40But you're right.
12:40I think this is the year that was disappointing because the previous road games in the playoffs,
12:46you could at least also say, well, those were superior football teams to the Texans.
12:50Yep.
12:51But then you go and play the Steelers on the road and it's not, weather conditions really
12:55weren't a factor there.
12:56You know, it was a little chilly, but not enough to really affect quarterbacks.
12:59And one of the reasons you won that game was because Aaron Rodgers was so horrendous against
13:04a good defense.
13:05Yeah.
13:05Your defense scored two of your touchdowns, right?
13:07Your quarterback wrote again, inferior team didn't do a good job.
13:10Yep.
13:11And that was the hard part that, um, you know, that the, the page.
13:15And then obviously the Patriots game is the Patriots game.
13:17Yep.
13:18Um, pain and Pendergast with you.
13:20Hey, one quick bit of audio to hit here.
13:22You mentioned Joe Burrow.
13:23We get a lot of, as soon as anytime we mentioned CJ, we get at least a few texts from
13:27people
13:27and tweets from people like, uh, see if, uh, you know, go check on Burrow, CJ for Burrow.
13:32Well, you just talked about that a little bit, Seth, um, Andrew Whitworth, we've also mentioned
13:36on the show today earlier, uh, was a teammate of Joe was a teammate of Carson Palmer in Cincinnati.
13:43Jeez.
13:43He's old back in.
13:45Yeah.
13:45Yeah.
13:46Back in, in the, uh, in the early two thousands.
13:49And if you recall, Carson Palmer was so upset with being a Cincinnati Bengal that he was going
13:55to retire and he was going to follow through on that threat.
13:58They eventually trade him to the Raiders.
14:00Um, but Andrew Whitworth, who's got a keen eye for what this could look like a quarterback,
14:06a Bengals quarterback looking to get the hell out of there or else had this to say about
14:11the Joe Burrow situation on his podcast, the, uh, the fits in wit podcast.
14:15You don't just think of how it affects Joe Burrow.
14:17Think of Jamar chase.
14:18Think of T Higgins.
14:19Think of these young offensive linemen there, D linemen there that all look up to him.
14:23You know, chase Brown, like think of these guys that look up to him because I know for
14:26me, it was like, man, you know, it affected our relationship after that, because I was
14:30like, man, you're walking out on us, you know, like you, you're, this is, you know,
14:33you can't do this because I looked up to Carson Palmer, like the big brother I'd ever
14:38had.
14:38Like I worshiped the ground that Carson Palmer walked on.
14:41Like I thought Carson Palmer was the greatest leader I'd ever been around.
14:44He's one of the best dudes I'd ever been around.
14:46Like I had never been around somebody like him before.
14:48And so that was like my big brothers, like leaving the house and saying, I don't want
14:52to be part of the family anymore.
14:53And I'm like, damn, like I, you know, and so I hated it because they'd be carried, created
14:58a little bit of rip between us.
14:59But their truth was, it's like, that's who I looked up to.
15:02And I'm sure that that building, a lot of those guys like that do, I've seen Joe Burrow
15:06in the off season.
15:06He's been to my gym before I've been around him, the way he works has dedicated as he
15:11is to being good at what he does.
15:13Like these guys look up to him.
15:14And so it's not just about how it affects Joe Burrow's life.
15:17This is going to affect a lot of guys around him and how they go about their business.
15:21And, and really, you know, the way they look up to him.
15:24And so that's what these things do.
15:26Yeah.
15:26We need this.
15:27We need, we need Burrow this off season to really start to agitate.
15:31I'm not saying as the Texans need it.
15:33I mean, if they, you know, the Texans want to make a Joe Burrow trade, knock yourself out.
15:36I'm just saying for content purposes, we need Joe Burrow to agitate his way out.
15:42I mean, and this is, it's no coincidence.
15:44It's not like it's some extreme coincidence that all of a sudden, oh wow, another quarterback
15:50who's a franchise potential legend and should be there for his entire career wants to, wants
15:58to force his way out of this organization.
16:00It's not a coincidence that it's the Bengals the second time around.
16:03Most Bengals fans, I would guess, just are waiting for the day that Mike Brown finally
16:08releases from his cold dead hands, the franchise.
16:13Cause it's just, it's perennially known as one of the worst places to play or one of the
16:18worst places to be a player.
16:20I am intrigued by Andrew Whitworth and the fact that he went from the Bengals and, you
16:25know, he looked like a lifelong prisoner with the Bengals.
16:27Yes.
16:28He left the Bengals when he was 35 years old and ends up going to the, going to the Rams
16:34and
16:34playing another five years until the age of 40.
16:36Well, but that's, those are two alarmingly different organizations in terms of the way
16:40they operate, very different organizations.
16:42It probably not.
16:44I mean, not only did he get a Superbowl ring out of that, he, cause he was on that Super
16:48bowl team, right.
16:48In 2021 with the Rams, he, I would say his five years with the Rams is the biggest reason
16:55he's got his media career where it is right now.
16:57Yeah.
16:58If he was still toiling for the Bengals, he might've found his, it wouldn't have been as
17:02quick a path to where he is right now.
17:03You know, the thing that annoys me a little bit about Joe Burrow is that for everything
17:07that, you know, it's easy to talk smack about the Bengals, but they, they, they, I have operated
17:14differently since Joe Burrow was drafted, really going to the year before Joe Burrow was drafted.
17:20They've started spending more in free agency.
17:22They've retained some of their players.
17:24They're actually in a, they're in one of those places where they've actually drafted well
17:27enough that they have a hard, they have a hard time figuring out exactly who they're going
17:31to pay that's the part where I feel like Joe Burrow has been a little bit more public in
17:36some of his comments about, you know, basically trying to put pressure on the team to pay
17:40guys and everything without kind of childishly not understanding how hard it is to manage
17:46the cap and everything else in the NFL.
17:48I agree with that.
17:48And, and the fact of the matter is with Burrow, they signed, they, they gave high market deals
17:54to his top two receivers.
17:56Yeah.
17:56So he can't complain about them letting weapons walk out the door or anything like that.
18:01I mean, they signed Jamar chase.
18:03He seems a little emo at times.
18:04Yes, definitely.
18:05I don't know.
18:06I guess like a lot of these young quarterbacks are a little too emo for my liking.
18:09He's very emo.
18:10I would say there's times where CJ is a little too emo for me.
18:13I don't, I don't know whether it's youth or whatever else it might be, but it's just,
18:17yeah, it's a Joe Burrow.
18:19Just quit, you know, pick up, put your chest out.
18:23Yeah, man.
18:24Slouching.
18:24Yeah.
18:24You know, it's not moping around all the time.
18:26Yep.
18:26Yeah.
18:26It's hard.
18:27Oh, I'm sorry.
18:28I'm sorry that it's hard to win football games.
18:30Did you, were you under the impression it was going to be easy?
18:33Yeah.
18:34He's got to cry it up.
18:36Pillow made of a hundred dollar bills.
18:37Yeah.
18:38Rich basket.
18:38No, he is.
18:39He's got his own stylist, Seth.
18:41It walks in, you know, you saw, you saw this past season of quarterback.
18:45Yeah.
18:46Uh, she, you know, she comes walking in with four different outfits and he's like, I'll
18:49take that one and I'll take that one.
18:51And Oh, really?
18:52Oh yeah.
18:52Yeah.
18:53Brings the outfits to his house.
18:55Oh really?
18:56Yeah.
18:57Yeah.
18:57I can't hate him for that one.
18:58I guess I would be like, I just, I would, I would do that if I weren't so lazy and
19:02actually
19:02hiring people.
19:03Well, it's probably tough for Joe Burrow to go out and shop.
19:05I would say.
19:05Right, right, right, right.
19:06No, no.
19:07I get it.
19:07I'm just throwing it out there.
19:08I'm not judging.
19:09I'm just, you know, that's, uh, it's what he does.
19:11Um, I think people want to cousins has his own stylist at target.
19:15He goes, you got a personal shop, man, don't disrespect target.
19:19They got some, I'm not, he shops at target.
19:21Yeah.
19:21He genuine, like he genuinely shops at that.
19:23See, that's you looking through your filter there.
19:25What do you mean?
19:26You said, don't disrespect target.
19:27Like I, what did I say that disrespect to target?
19:30No, nothing.
19:30It was just juxtaposed to Joe Burrow bringing in all his fashion.
19:33I thought that's, that's what it was.
19:35Apologize.
19:36If there's such a thing as a personal shopper at target, I apologize to you.
19:39I love them.
19:40I love it.
19:40I get, I get my stuff.
19:41They have great t-shirts at target.
19:43Really good.
19:44Vintage rock.
19:45Really good t-shirt selection.
19:46Yes.
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