00:01Murder or accident?
00:03Are tougher laws needed for underage drivers?
00:07Are parents of minors culpable?
00:10The questions we are asking, is this a murder or accident?
00:14Are tougher laws needed for underage drivers?
00:17Are parents of minors culpable?
00:19The new Motor Vehicles Act does do it, but they still seem to get away.
00:24Why is there no fear of the law?
00:26Just questions I will raise tonight.
00:28Dr. Kiran Bedi, former IPS officer and someone who's tracked traffic police for years.
00:33Pinky Anand, senior advocate, Supreme Court and former ASG.
00:37And Suresh Kosta is father of Ashwini Kosta, one of the victims in the May 2024 Pune Porsche hit and
00:44run case.
00:45And I want to come first to you, Suresh Ji.
00:49When you see the case that Ira is suffering from at the moment and the pain she's going through,
00:54I'm sure it must rekindle for you memories of what happened in your case as well.
00:59What would you like to say today to those who are listening to this show?
01:05I said, I don't have to know.
01:07I've caught up with a video.
01:09I've seen this situation.
01:16I've seen this situation.
01:19I've seen this situation because I've come through.
01:28I've seen this situation.
01:29I've seen this situation.
01:30foreign
02:00I
02:00know
02:01I
02:02don't
02:02know
02:03I
02:04don't
02:04know
02:20don't
02:44know
02:47I
02:49don't
02:50know
02:50I
02:50don't
02:50know
02:50I
02:50don't
02:50know
02:51I
02:51don't
02:52know
02:52I
02:55don't
02:56know
02:56I
02:56know
02:59I
03:00don't
03:02know
03:11I
03:18don't
03:19know
03:20I
03:20don't
03:20know
03:20don't
03:23I
03:29don't
03:30know
03:32I
03:40want to take
03:41to Kiran
03:42Bedi
03:46Kiran
03:46you are hearing a father
03:47you've heard a mother
03:49and I want to ask you this the system itself
03:52when I look at the Motor Vehicles Act itself
03:54it was tightened in 2019
03:58that would imposing stricter
04:00penalties on parents as well
04:02not just on the
04:05on the child who was responsible for it
04:08for a parent but an underage driver still gets away
04:11with a light punishment
04:12and the parents also get bail because the maximum punishment
04:16is three years it's very easily bailable
04:19do you believe the system
04:21is the problem
04:25well you got pinky Anand with you
04:27former additional solicitor general
04:30she told tell you about the laws
04:32but I think it's a very very tragic
04:34case
04:35may this never happen again to others
04:37but it's continuing to happen again and again
04:40Rajdeep
04:41I think we're talking about such incidents quite repeatedly currently at the moment
04:46Who do you put the blame on?
04:48Who do you put is it the parents who give the children the keys of a SUV at the age
04:53of 17?
04:53Do you blame them?
04:55Are they primarily responsible?
04:57Is this a poor parenting?
04:59Is there no fear of the law?
05:01Is this...
05:02Can the police in any way be held responsible?
05:05Because the chalan system also
05:07doesn't seem to make anyone feel
05:09that it's...
05:10They don't seem to be frightened by it
05:12it doesn't fear...
05:13make them feel fearful of the law
05:14Well all of it what you said
05:16all of it
05:17beginning with parents
05:19begins with parents
05:20who parented such a boy
05:22beginning with parents
05:23and they should have been held responsible
05:25and they ought to have been arrested by now
05:27and not bailed out
05:28not bailed out
05:30where parents should have been squarely held responsible
05:33for having allowed such a situation to happen
05:36they are responsible
05:38how dare does the boy take away the key
05:40and drive as an underage
05:42second
05:43so parents must take responsibility for it
05:46and be held responsible
05:47besides a minor
05:48and I wish the minor had not been given the time
05:51to take the boat
05:52he ought to have let...
05:54suffered...
05:54suffered a one year loss of education
05:57and he's very unfair
05:58even the boy should have been allowed to suffer
06:01saying you suffered...
06:02lose one year of your education
06:04why has he been bailed out?
06:06it's up to the courts
06:07I think the courts are becoming unkind completely
06:10I would not agree
06:11even if it's a bailable offence
06:13I think there is...
06:15it's not mandated
06:16it's the way the judge looks at the case
06:18case to case basis
06:19parents are responsible
06:21boy equally responsible
06:23and number three
06:24there is an absence of sustained enforcement
06:27of traffic laws in our country
06:29sustained
06:30not only in Delhi
06:31anywhere
06:32where is the predictability of law enforcement
06:34and there is no visibility of traffic patrols
06:37of cops
06:38there is no scare
06:39so you are neither respecting the law
06:41nor are you afraid of the law
06:43because it's just absent
06:45it's really absent
06:46and fourth
06:47where is the transport department
06:49and traffic police not working together?
06:51if somebody...
06:52some vehicle and person
06:53has been repeatedly violating
06:54traffic violations
06:56why have the licenses not been suspended?
06:59why have the courses not...
07:00why are the traffic police and department
07:03transport not working together?
07:05so I think it's a systemic failure
07:07but it also shows social failure within parenting
07:10and as I mentioned
07:12even the court... judiciary
07:13I think judiciary can't get away
07:15let me take the judicial point
07:18let me take the judicial point ma'am
07:21to Pinky Anand
07:22Pinky Anand
07:23as I said in 2019
07:25the laws were supposedly toughened
07:27wherein parents also would be held culpable
07:30and there was a belief
07:32that that would in some way
07:34maybe curb the menace of underage driving
07:38but the fact is that's not happened
07:40when I look at over speeding incidents
07:43the truth of the matter is
07:45number of them involve underage drivers
07:50where... what... clearly if the law is there
07:54either it is implemented in a manner
07:56which is easily bailable
07:58it's less than three years
07:59you get punishment up to maximum of three years
08:01so you can be immediately bailed out
08:03you paid 25,000 you're bailed out
08:05you can be bailed out for doing your exams
08:07in a case like this
08:08do you believe the judge should not have allowed
08:11this young man to get away to do his board exams?
08:16Radheep I'll tell you very fairly
08:17that I do agree with a couple of propositions
08:20that you have put forth and that is to say
08:21that in cases like this
08:23should it be an bailable offence
08:24is a question mark area for sure
08:26you know we have discussed this time and again
08:29when accidents have happened
08:30whether by motor vehicles or otherwise
08:31that you have to have absolute liability
08:33and you have to have them as non-bailable
08:35and you have to have a provision which is punishment enough
08:38to compensate possibly
08:40for the mental agony, trauma, etc.
08:43suffered by the family of the victim
08:45because the victim is obviously here no more
08:47whether you should call it murder or not
08:49that's another story altogether
08:50but definitely a rash and negligent act
08:52done by a person knowingly that what he is doing
08:55could result in the death of a person
08:57should be something which requires punishment
08:59of much more than what is provided under the law today.
09:02Should there be stronger custodial sentence
09:05even if it's a juvenile I am 17 years old
09:08if I commit a rape for example
09:10and I am a minor
09:11the punishment is whifter
09:12but if I commit
09:13you could argue whether it's an accident or murder
09:15but if I am killing
09:17if I end up killing someone else
09:20should I get away by the fact that I am 17 or 16?
09:23No you are right
09:24and that is the law today
09:25the law today does prescribe that you can actually
09:27treat a person who is a juvenile
09:29or a minor as an adult
09:31for purposes depending on the heinousness of the crime
09:34the board has to determine that
09:36and actually that would happen
09:37and that can happen
09:38depends on the facts of this case of course
09:40but it is something which is now provided for
09:43there was a whole debate about this subject Rajni
09:45whether you should have a juvenile also being punished
09:48in the same way as an adult period
09:49without recourse to his age
09:51but what finally the law came to settle down
09:54was that even if it is a minor
09:55if the crime, if the offence was grievous
09:58then he would be punished, she or she would be punished
10:01as an adult
10:02and that would be
10:02So, you agree that you cannot give an exemption for a board exam
10:06that is simply, I mean that is effectively
10:08as was suggested by Suresh Kosta
10:11that seems to me
10:13that if someone is
10:14has access to those in power you will get away
10:16would it have happened if there was a
10:19a boy from a less affluent family
10:22who had committed a similar crime
10:23You are right
10:24I mean it does depend on the status of
10:26and your financial capacities
10:28and your parents etc.
10:29the status in society
10:30and that is a societal malaise
10:31that we are always suffering from
10:33the poor versus the rich
10:34that is one thing
10:35but what is even worse actually is
10:38the fact, the way the mother came out
10:39is the fact that there are several traffic
10:41challenge against this young man driving
10:43and this situation is something which should have been prevented
10:47and which shows culpability of the first order of the child
10:50as much as of the parents
10:52the parents have to actually
10:54the reason the law was made such was
10:55that a child is a child
10:57under 18 is somebody who is a juvenile or a child
10:59and therefore
10:59possibly there is some leeway for him
11:01but for the parents of a child
11:03who commits such a grievous offence
11:05you have to have the punishment
11:07put them behind bars
11:08and there is a presumption
11:09it is the parents who would demonstrate
11:11that it was done without their knowledge
11:13but if you have a continuing position
11:15of aggression
11:16of violating the law
11:18of traffic challenge
11:19the mother is absolutely right
11:20pull out all the challenge
11:21if somebody has been having so many challenge
11:23then what is going on
11:25why is action not been taken
11:26the provision of traffic
11:27today traffic has become so horrendous
11:29it is as good as firing a bullet
11:32so ultimately
11:32unless you are able to save the roads
11:34for not only the children, society
11:36adults, elderly
11:38you have to save all of us
11:40from any such malaise
11:42you know I am just going to say this again
11:44if this young man
11:45at the age of 17
11:47has repeated challenge
11:48he should be seen as a serial offender
11:50yes
11:51you are right
11:51and therefore
11:52the punishment must be proportionate
11:54to what he has done
11:56it doesn't necessarily mean in every case of an accident
11:59but in a case like this
12:00if he has been seen as a serial offender
12:03he deserves far greater punishment
12:06and indeed so do the parents
12:08this is a wake up call
12:10this is a wake up call
12:10and there will be many more
12:11every day in some part of the country
12:14accidents of this kind are taking place
12:16over speeding accidents in India
12:1868.4% of total road accidents
12:23and somewhere down the line
12:25the entire system as it's called
12:27has to wake up before it is too late
12:31I appreciate my guests joining us
12:33on my top talking point
12:34and I hope that this is a wake up call
12:36once again
12:38do not give your underage children the keys to SUVs
12:42it is illegal
12:43it's a crime
12:44and you too as parents
12:46should be punished for the crime
12:49it is too late
