00:00Do you think it strengthens Ukraine's position or does this.
00:05This promise of security guarantees just add another layer of complexity to negotiations.
00:10Russia view them as provocative.
00:12So much of this talk in the last few months we...
00:15We're talking from the 28-point peace plan, which was announced in November.
00:20And then in December, it was modified by the European Union, who went to Washington...
00:25...and begged and got the 20-point peace plan.
00:27Now these discussions in UAE.
00:30There seems to be a sort of a fantasy element about it all, and we've just heard elements of that.
00:35First of all, what were the Russian analysis of its goals right from the...
00:40...to start?
00:40The near-abroad applied only to the former Soviet states.
00:45It was the Eastern European states were the sort of middle-abroad, but even then it was never...
00:50...a genuine sense of infringing on the sovereignty of neighbours.
00:55Russian policy had always been to precisely maintain the sovereignty...
00:59I mean, putting...
01:00He came in and he signed the deals, border agreements, everything.
01:02Let's accept everything as it is.
01:05But there was always this question of what are Russia's legitimate security...
01:10...interests.
01:10I've been asking this question for 20 years.
01:13In the old days, when I used to go to the British minister...
01:15...of defence, I would ask this question.
01:17I never got an answer.
01:18I never got an answer.
01:19In other words...
01:20The implicit assumption was they don't have any, because we are an expanding...
01:25...western alliance system.
01:27And, of course, Ukraine then became a willing element in them.
01:30Obviously, Ukraine wasn't going to join NATO, but NATO was in...
01:35Ukraine, as we've just heard.
01:36If Russia really wanted to annex these territories, as it were, if it was all about...
01:40...empire, they could have done for the bits of Donetsk and Lugansk all the way back from 25...
01:45...14, 15, 16, they didn't want it.
01:47The whole point of Minsk was to return it.
01:50Two, a sovereign, independent Ukraine.
01:53But they mismanaged that in...
01:55...western sponsors, call them what you like, misguided U.S. Embassy in Canada...
02:00...was some sort of pro-consult's office, which, again, you know, everybody talks about...
02:05...Ukrainian agency, which I want, genuine agency, independence, to think how...
02:10...can save its people now, how it can actually live normally.
02:14Russia...
02:15...is not on its knees.
02:16We've just heard a very, I think, misleading analysis.
02:19Its economy...
02:20...yes, it has huge challenges, but sanctions will not work.
02:25That this geo-economic element is not going to change the U.S.
02:30...main goal, which is that there has to be no security threat from...
02:35...Ukraine, now or in the future.
02:37So how does the U.S. security guarantees play into...
02:40...that then, though?
02:41Coming back to my question, does this add a dangerous...
02:45...level of complexity to negotiations?
02:47It certainly does do that, but...
02:50Remember, it's also rather insulting for the so-called coalition of willing...
02:53...that is, of the willing...
02:55...that is, Germany, Florence and the United Kingdom, and its allies...
02:58...which have been talking for the last...
03:00...few months about they providing these security guarantees.
03:05And that's, as it were, been discarded with a rather contemptuous nod.
03:10In its latest discussions, yes, it does add a layer of complexity...
03:14...because Russia...
03:15...does not want to alienate Washington today under term...
03:19...they...
03:20...want to see this rapprochement between Washington and Moscow.
03:23And it serves, I think, everyone...
03:25...everybody's interests to see this.
03:27Of course, we all want some sort of...
03:29...equitable...
03:30...fair solution to the Ukrainian crisis.
03:35So...
03:36I'm just going to want some...
03:37... inquiring to the Muslim information.
03:38No?
03:39Did you not see a result in the interaction of the room?
03:40Wonderful.
03:41Don't happen to me...
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